Hello list members! I am looking for a greens powder to put in my smoothies. I just finished up a container of The Amazing Meal. I liked it but wanted to try something new so I bought Sunwarrior protein powder and freeze dried wheat grass for the greens. Unfortunately I had a reaction to the wheat grass (I am gluten intolerant). I was wondering if anyone out there is a raw vegan that suffers from gluten intolerance or celiac disease? If so could you reccomend a greens powder that works for you?
I hope this is of interest. Just imagine what a farm or garden at the White House might do for the raw foods movement.
Our farmer here at Troy Gardens in Madison, Wisconsin, is locked in a tight race for the lead for the voting for White House Farmer. At 4:13 PM Central today, with 28% of the vote, she is in second and only trails the leader by 366 votes, or 4%, from a field of 34 candidates.
the idea of buying locally-grown foods (usually but not always organic) has become a popular topic in food circles; the term "locavore" is sometimes used to describe this philosophy. The link below takes you to an article in the latest issue of a local weekly newspaper, "Pacific Sun". Said newspaper is published in San Rafael, California, and has as primary circulation area, Marin County, California (a very high income area indeed). It describes an experiment in which the author in fact ate nearly exclusively locally grown/produced, organic foods for a week. The estimated cost was almost US $300 for a
Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice Article in Press, Corrected Proof doi:10.1016/j.ctcp.2006.12.005
Factors affecting adherence to a raw vegan diet Lilli B Link
Summary
The purpose of this study was to evaluate adherence and identify predictors of adherence to a raw vegan diet (i.e., uncooked plant foods) following a stay at a raw vegan institute. In this cohort study of guests at a raw vegan institute, subjects completed written questionnaires upon arrival and 12 weeks later. Of 107 eligible guests, 84 participated. Mean age was 54 years, 23 were male, and 73 white. Fifty-one completed the 12-week follow-up. Eight (16%) reported
I find it remarkable that they experienced the health improvements after only 12 days. - Janet
Human guinea pigs eat "ape diet" for 12 days, experience remarkable health improvements
In a British experiment filmed for television, nine volunteers agreed to set-up camp in a zoo and eat an ape's diet for 12 days. The goal of the experiment was to create a visual documentary of the types of reactions that would take place from giving up standard processed foods in favor of a diet eaten for hundreds of millions of years by our ancestors. The diet included 2,300 calories of
i would imagine that the participants were in fairly good health to begin with because if not, the detox symptoms might have lasted more than 12 days before they really started to feel that energy. anyway, that is certainly an excellent diet for the short term; however, i don't believe in a vegan diet for the long term as it causes deficiencies in too many people.
> i would imagine that the participants were in fairly good health to > begin with because if not, the detox symptoms might have lasted more > than 12 days before they really started to feel that energy. anyway, > that is certainly an excellent diet for the short term; however, i > don't > believe in a vegan diet for the long term as it causes deficiencies in > too many people. > > Madelyn >
In that article, if you click on Straight to the Source, it takes you to the BBC News Magazine article on the experiment, which is more mainstream. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6248975.stm
On that page, there's a link to a video of "one volunteer's story." I couldn't get the video to play, unfortunately.
Janet
On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:55 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote: > http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3847.cfm > Fantastic article.. now to get this out to the more mainstream..
all kinds but the main deficiency to get tested for regularly if you are a vegan is b12 which can become very serious if it is not caught in time.
madelyn
\Janet wrote:
>Madelyn, > >What kind of deficiencies are you talking about? > >Janet > >On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:51 PM, madelyn wrote: > > > >>i would imagine that the participants were in fairly good health to >>begin with because if not, the detox symptoms might have lasted more >>than 12 days before they really started to feel that energy. anyway, >>that is certainly an excellent diet
Below are 3 articles on inflammatory bowel disease. Read even one of the=20 articles, and you will know more about the subject than all the raw food=20 gurus combined. :-)
#1 Clinical Nutrition Article in Press doi:10.1016/j.clnu.2006.10.001=20
REVIEW ARTICLE Bioecological control of inflammatory bowel disease Stig Bengmark
Summary
It is today generally accepted, that the intestinal bacterial flora is=20 deeply involved in the pathogenesis of human previous terminflammatory=20 bowel diseasesnext term (IBDs), although the exact presence of unwanted or =
Review The Molecular Genetics of Crop Domestication John F. Doebley, Brandon S. Gaut and Bruce D. Smith
Abstract Ten thousand years ago human societies around the globe began to transition from hunting and gathering to agriculture. By 4000 years ago, ancient peoples had completed the domestication of all major crop species upon which human survival is dependent, including rice, wheat, and maize. Recent research has begun to reveal the genes responsible for this agricultural revolution. The list of genes to
[In an advance publication article in 'Nature Genetics'] Sarah Tishkoff and colleagues report that lactase persistence due to variation upstream of the gene encoding lactase-phlorizin hydrolase (LPH) has arisen independently in Africans and Europeans. Their results confirm the strong selective pressure of adult milk consumption in human evolution.
Nature Genetics Published online: 10 December 2006; doi:10.1038/ng1946
Most of us have seen various claims that Steve Jobs (co-founder of Apple Computers) is or was a fruitarian. A few relevant points:
* There is no reason to believe that he is still a rawist now; some of the mentions note that he WAS raw for a short time, in the past; other mentions blur this distinction * Unlike the fruitarians who offer no proof, I have in-hand an advertisment for Paul Bragg's products. The ad has a (current !) picture of Steve Jobs standing next to Patricia Bragg. Steve is quoted under the photo: "I've been reading the
>Most of us have seen various claims that Steve Jobs (co-founder of Apple >Computers) is or was a fruitarian. A few relevant points: > >* There is no reason to believe that he is still a rawist now; some of the > mentions note that he WAS raw for a short time, in the past; other > mentions blur this distinction >* Unlike the fruitarians who offer no proof, I have in-hand an > advertisment for Paul Bragg's products. The ad has a (current !) picture > of
Many thanks Madelyn. And yes, I have heard this before.
John
----- Original Message ----- From: "madelyn" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Steve Jobs a Bragg fan, not a fruitarian
> bragg's liquid amino acid is pure msg > > m. > > Thomas E. Billings wrote: > >>Most of us have seen various claims that Steve Jobs (co-founder of Apple >>Computers) is or was a fruitarian. A few relevant points: >> >>* There is no reason to believe that he is still a rawist now; some of >>the >> mentions note that
it's a complicated explanation which i don't have time to give. it has to do with the misleading labeling laws that permit msg to go under some 100 names and the fact that some foods create msg during the processing. bragg's liquid amino acids is pure msg according to pure science despite the convoluted labeling laws.
-----Original Message----- From: Raw Food Diet Support List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of madelyn Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 5:02 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Steve Jobs a Bragg fan, not a fruitarian
it's a complicated explanation which i don't have time to give. it has to do with the misleading labeling laws that permit msg to go under some 100 names and the fact that some foods create msg during the processing. bragg's liquid amino acids is pure msg according to pure
Resveratrol, a substance found in grapes and red wine, can increase the lifespan of mice. This is the same effect seen with calorie restriction.
Article: Resveratrol improves health and survival of mice on a high-calorie diet Authors: Joseph A. Baur et. al. (long author list)
Nature advance online publication 1 November 2006 | doi:10.1038/nature05354
Abstract Resveratrol (3,5,4'-trihydroxystilbene) extends the lifespan of diverse species including Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Caenorhabditis elegans and Drosophila melanogaster. In these organisms, lifespan extension is dependent on Sir2, a conserved deacetylase proposed to underlie the beneficial effects of caloric restriction. Here we show that resveratrol shifts the physiology
Mad honey poisoning Abdulkadir Gunduz MD, Suleyman Turedi MD, Hukum Uzun MD, and Murat Topbas MD
The American Journal of Emergency Medicine Volume 24, Issue 5 , September 2006, Pages 595-598
Abstract (and full-text) online at the ScienceDirect website. Full-text will cost money unless you have a subscripton or library proxy.
Abstract
Grayanotoxin intoxication, which is mostly seen in the eastern Black Sea region of Turkey, stems from the 'mad honey' made by bees from the rhododendron plant flowers. In low doses, this causes dizziness, hypotension, and bradycardia, and in high doses, impaired consciousness, seizures, and atrioventricular block (AVB).
Some years ago a book called "Children of the Sun" came out. It is/was a picture anthology book, and provided an all-too-limited glimpse into the role of the German naturalism movement of the late 1800's and into the 1930's, as one of the "roots" of today's modern raw foods movement. I liked Kennedy's book but also was indirectly disappointed with it -- it gave me a brief taste of the history, but it also left me "hungry" for more historical information.
[Presented to the list because it may intereste some readers. Don't assume that I agree or disagree with the article.]
Although it is not a scientific article, the following editorial that appeared in yesterday's "San Francisco Chronicle" newspaper may be of interest to list members:
An organic foods dilemma They're mass-produced by agribiz but better than eating poisons
My new e mail address is [log in to unmask] Can you replace the juno one with this one? Tks. Madelyn
-- "Thomas E. Billings" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: [Presented to the list because it may intereste some readers. Don't assume that I agree or disagree with the article.]
Although it is not a scientific article, the following editorial that appeared in yesterday's "San Francisco Chronicle" newspaper may be of interest to list members:
The review article below discusses the approaches used to study natural selection and adaptations in the human lineage. It provides a nice overview of the ongoing research in this (interesting) area.
Science 16 June 2006: Vol. 312. no. 5780, pp. 1614 - 1620
Positive Natural Selection in the Human Lineage P. C. Sabeti, S. F. Schaffner, B. Fry, J. Lohmueller, P. Varilly, O. Shamovsky, A. Palma, T. S. Mikkelsen, D. Altshuler, E. S. Lander
Petra LL Goyens, Mary E Spilker, Peter L Zock, Martijn B Katan, and Ronald P Mensink Conversion of alpha-linolenic acid in humans is influenced by the absolute amounts of alpha-linolenic acid and linoleic acid in the diet and not by their ratio
The latest issue of "California", the magazine of the UC Berkeley alumni association, has a short article:
Carbon clues, written by Heather Smith.
The article mentions the work of Prof Todd Dawson, who uses a mass spectrometer to analyze the source of chemicals (and foods/water). Anyway, the article mentions that:
* the instructor has his students analyze bottled water that is supposedly from Fiji -- turns out the isotope ratio of the water indicates a western North American source. [Fake Fiji water.] * the instrument was used on student vegetarians, to see if they were really vegetarian. Results: not always;
Michael Pollan, who teaches at UC Berkeley, has received a lot of publicity for his new book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals."
The Monthly July 2006, 36(10) Article: Food Pyramid/Food Warrior by Paul Kilduff pp 11-13
He was recently interviewed in "The Monthly", a free newspaper distributed in the SF bay area. He is very critical of organics and Whole Foods markets. Some quotes:
An excellent recent article that, in the context of strawberry production, highlights some of the tradeoffs in industrial agriculture: reliable, mass-production can lower price and increase avaialability, but at the expense of foods that have real flavor.
>From "Fruit Gardener", July & August 2006 issue, vol 38, #4. Published by California Rare Fruit Growers
Article: California Strawberries [pp 14-17, 23] Subtitle: Compromises underlie ubiquity Author: David Karp
In-the-works nutrition book from the University of California Press, that may be of interest to some list members. To be published Sept 2006:
The Queen of Fats Why Omega-3s Were Removed from the Western Diet and What We Can Do to Replace Them Susan Allport
DESCRIPTION
A nutritional whodunit that takes readers from Greenland to Africa to Israel, The Queen of Fats gives a fascinating account of how we have become deficient in a nutrient that is essential for good health: the fatty acids known as omega-3s. Writing with intelligence and passion, Susan Allport tells the story of these vital
I like your method. Would you look at www.iq-lab.com and see whether we can do something with the products listed? We do have a wonderful sprout product rich in non-animal Omega-3s. It is intended to help bring the Omega6/omega3 balance ratio to the way it would be without all the junk trans fatty acids eaten in fast food, pre-prepared foods etc. Dr. Peter Pantel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas E. Billings" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:31 PM Subject: new nutrition book: omega-3 oils
>I like your method. Would you look at www.iq-lab.com and see whether we can >do something with the products listed? We do have a wonderful sprout product >rich in non-animal Omega-3s. It is intended to help bring the Omega6/omega3 >balance ratio to the way it would be without all the junk trans fatty acids >eaten in fast food, pre-prepared foods etc. >Dr. Peter Pantel
New book from the University of California Press, that may be of interest to some list members. Published Jan 2006:
Behavioral Ecology and the Transition to Agriculture Edited by Douglas J. Kennett and Bruce Winterhalder
DESCRIPTION
This innovative volume is the first collective effort by archaeologists and ethnographers to use concepts and models from human behavioral ecology to explore one of the most consequential transitions in human history: the origins of agriculture. Carefully balancing theory and detailed empirical study, and drawing from a series of ethnographic and archaeological case studies from eleven locations--including North and South America, Mesoamerica, Europe, the
A new nutrition book that may be of interets to list-members:
Calcium in human health [edited by] Connie M. Weaver and Robert P. Heaney ; foreword by Lawrence G. Raisz Publisher Totowa, N.J. : Humana Press, c2006
Contents Bone as the calcium nutrient reserve / Robert P. Heaney -- Cellular functions and fluxes of calcium / Emmanuel M. Awumey and Richard D. Bukoski -- Nutritional epidemiology / Carol J. Boushey -- Clinical approaches for studying calcium metabolism and its relationship to disease / Connie M. Weaver -- Kinetic studies / Meryl E. Wastney, Yongdong Zhao, and Connie M. Weaver --
The following is provided as a public service for list-members in the SF Bay area. I do not receive payments of any kind in the following matter.
Coming to the Pacific Film Archive in Berkeley, California:
FRI JUL 14 2006 7:30 The Death of Mr. Lazarescu Cristi Puiu (Romania, 2005)
(Moartea Domnului Lazarescu). Rarely has trusting one's life to health professionals seemed deadlier than in this sardonic Romanian comédie humaine that's already won over thirty international prizes and been called “the most remarkable film of the year” by the Village Voice. Living alone with his cats and his alcohol, the
Phylogeography of Asian wild rice, Oryza rufipogon, reveals multiple independent domestications of cultivated rice, Oryza sativa Jason P. Londo, Yu-Chung Chiang, Kuo-Hsiang Hung, Tzen-Yuh Chiang, and Barbara A. Schaal
Cultivated rice, Oryza sativa L., represents the world's most important staple food crop, feeding more than half of the human population. Despite this essential role in world agriculture, the history of cultivated rice's domestication from its wild ancestor, Oryza rufipogon, remains unclear. In this study, DNA sequence variation in three gene regions is examined in a phylogeographic approach
The article below provides an excellent (and fascinating) discussion of organic food safety issues.
Organic Food: Buying More Safety or Just Peace of Mind? A Critical Review of the Literature. Authors: Magkos, Faidon, Arvaniti, Fotini, Zampelas, Antonis
Critical Reviews in Food Science & Nutrition Jan 2006, Vol. 46 Issue 1, p23-56.
Abstract: Consumer concern over the quality and safety of conventional food has intensified in recent years, and primarily drives the increasing demand for organically grown food, which is perceived as healthier and safer. Relevant scientific evidence, however, is scarce, while anecdotal reports abound. Although there is an urgent need
These terms: fruitarian, natural hygiene, 8-1-1 diet, hippocrates diet, instinctive eating, ann wigmore, herbert shelton -- did not have enough search volume to even bother graphing.
*Presumably search frequency is a rough proxy measure for popular interest in the topic.
Since I received an inquiry regarding crossposting my original post, let me make (the answer) public knowledge:
Others are herein granted permission to cross-post the original post (as specified in subject line of this email) on other appropriate forums, email lists, and/or bulletin boards.
The crossposting can be with credit -- naming me as originator -- or without, i.e., not mentioning that I am the author.
The paleofood list was moved to a new server yesterday. There is a new address for messages to the list. it is [log in to unmask] The archives are now located at http://listserv.icors.org/archives/raw-food.html Our pre 1999 archives have been restored also.
As I learn more I will post the information. So far it has been relatively painless.
although it is technically off-topic for raw-food, I am submitting the abstract for a recent study that may be of interest to the list members. The study suggests that the intensive, industrial, irrigated agriculture being practiced in California's San Joaquin valley - a major food source - might not be sustainable, long term.
The October 2005 issue of MIT Technology Review (From the Editor, p. 12) discusse a new cooking method known as sous vide or hypercuisine: foods are vacuum-packed, then cooked for very long periods at low temperatures. (Vacuum-packing is to reduce bacterial growth and hold in flavors.)
Gabriel Cousens has promoted similar low-temp "raw" soups or stews in the past, but without the vacuum packing process.
The raw vegan pseudoscience frauds claim try to claim that humans have evolved on a raw vegan diet. However, in order to make this claim, they have to claim that humans have not adapted to an omnivorous diet, despite following such diets for 2.5+ million years. This puts the frauds in a tough position: 1) in one case, they claim that evolution of the digestive system is impossible in the time period. That claim is contradicted by the record of brain evolution over the same period, i.e., the fakes are arguing that "the brain can evolve, but the stomach cannot".
the first major scientific paper on Orthorexia nervosa, the symptoms of which can be seen in many raw diet gurus:
Orthorexia nervosa: A preliminary study with a proposal for diagnosis and an attempt to measure the dimension of the phenomenon
L.M. Donini*, D. Marsili*, M.P. Graziani **, M. Imbriale*, and C. Cannella* *Istituto di Scienza dell’Alimentazione, Università degli Studi di Roma “La Sapienza”, and **Istituto di Scienze dell’Alimentazione, CNR, Avellino, Italy
Many chiropractors are active in the raw foods community. Some of them are promoting extreme diets - natural hygiene, fruit based 8-1-1. An interesting question arises: does Chiropractic have a scientific basis? The article below is part of a debate that suggests the answer is "no":
Subluxation: Dogma or Science?
Journal: Chiropractic and Osteopathy
Open access, full text online (free) at: http://www.chiroandosteo.com/content/pdf/1746-1340-13-17.pdf
a paper in the latest issue of PNAS discusses the possibility of using GE (genetic engineering) to produce grains that exclude phytates - a common and troublesome anti-nutrient.
yes, eating a plant based diet is the cause of sexual deviance and uncontrollable exhibition.
you got a better chance of blaming martha stewart for hurricane katrina.
madelyn
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:44:33 -0400 William <[log in to unmask]> writes: > A vegetarian, of course. > > William > > > On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:37:03 -0400, Thomas E. Billings > <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > for indecent exposure, in New York City: > > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/342442p-292359c.html > > > > Tom Billings > > > >
Berkeley is very veg-friendly. Besides the places listed above, others that come to mind are:
Cafe Muse, on Durant Avenue behind the University Art Museum - has many raw vegan dishes on the menu Numerous Indian restaurants that serve veg dishes - but most such food is heavily spiced and/or oily There's an Italian vegetarian place on Center Street - never been there, so can't comment... Long Life Vegi/Seafood on University - Chinese, cheap, close to UC Berkeley campus, popular Numerous street vendors near UC Berkeley campus - salads, baked potatoes, Greek
Is docosahexaenoic acid, an n-3 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acid, required for development of normal brain function? An overview of evidence from cognitive and behavioral tests in humans and animals Joyce C McCann and Bruce N Ames
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 82, No. 2, 281-295, August 2005 http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/2/281
This review is part of a series intended for nonspecialists that will summarize evidence relevant to the question of whether causal relations exist between micronutrient deficiencies and brain function. Here, we focus on experiments that used cognitive or behavioral tests as outcome measures in experimental designs that
Here's a non-technical article re: quality issues with olive oil
http://www.themonthly.com/feature08-05.html
The lead-in for the article says: Cooks who use oil that's labeled as "extra virgin" might be dismayed to learn that some brands blend in hazelnut oil and then dye the mixture with chlorophyll. Legitimate olive oil producers say "like a virgin" just isn't good enough. They want to see federal guidelines in place.
Goji - aka Lycium aka Wolfberry - berries in dried form are being sold to the raw community as a superfood and at "super-high" prices as well. One can get goji berries in chinatowns here in California for $3/pound.
More importantly, here in California chinatowns, you can buy cuttings of the wolfberry/goji vine. These can be used:
would be wonderful if someone could buy both kinds, have them analyzed and report the truth.
i am told by an objective eater of goji berries who researched this that there is a huge difference in quality and origin between the two . but who knows.
madelyn
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:50:14 -0700 "Thomas E. Billings" <[log in to unmask]> writes: > Goji - aka Lycium aka Wolfberry - berries in dried form are being > sold > to the raw community as a superfood and at "super-high" prices as > well. One can get goji berries in chinatowns here in California
I recently acquired a copy of the newly published book: The Whole Soy Story, by Kaayla T. Daniel. It is not one of those slim, non-technical books/booklets you see in health food stores, that are poorly rewritten ad copy.
Insetad, it is a carefully reearched and heavily footnoted book with a large scope, that tells you a great deal about soy. Those of you interested in soy should find the book an interesting read.
I am not "looking" for a family that eats raw. I am a family that eats raw. I am expecting people who are selling information and products to not be hypocritical. Honesty and explanation is to be expected from individuals who are selling others a diet. I know Storm and Jinjee through www.thegardendiet.com and know they are a valued part of the raw food lifestyle. I do not practice a vegan diet like they claim to. I do not subscribe to anyone's or group's diet. I am not saying Arlin is a hypocrite. I do not know him personally. I
Your choice. Just because you choose not to charge and they do doesn't make them any less or more ruthless then you in your wanting to get information across. Simply or complicated who cares as long as correct information gets out there for others to know?
In a message dated 6/20/05 11:08:34 PM Central Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Your choice. > Just because you choose not to charge and they do doesn't make them any > less > or more ruthless then you in your wanting to get information across. > Simply or > complicated who cares as long as correct information gets out there for > others to know? >
i care ! because i have seen , way too often, that the best informations that could really adress problems , trasnsform into a commercial venture where the focus is on not sharing informations or point of views but selling dreams ( it is hard to
This is true in most cases but I am sure there are some out there that do not get lost in the industrialness of it.. but I do agree with you.. And it is sad that we have come to that in this world. No wonder even the movies show man killing themselves.. in their various forms and ways... sometimes I am ashamed to be human.
an article re: Nature's First Law at URL below. Note photo of Thor - aka Stephen Arlin - and the massive weight gain. Makes one question if he is still eating predominantly raw.
The moderator of the electronic bulletin board on the NFL site, has politely asked me to post the following URL as a counterbalance to the URL/article posted previously:
I normally comply with reasonable, polite requests. My original post follows. Since weight gain is associated with cooked food consumption, my question - how raw is he, really? - is a reasonable, relevant, and polite question.
My husband is 6' 1" and does not want to be misled that a raw foodists can be large and look like a "body builder" on a raw food diet. He is 175 lbs and I am encouraging him to stop trying to look like a body builder and focus on health and strength...the naturally built or cut look will come along with that. That article is confusing and does not answer how much raw food David or Thor consume generally. I noticed Thor defended his weight gain with not enough time to work on himself. The question of how
Since you are looking for someone who has a family and is on a raw diet I suggest you look into this link. This man has been raw for 20 some odd years. works out everyday and has a raw wife and beautiful kids. Yes, they may have things to sell, but who wouldn't if there is an outlet for information and expertise. Wouldn't you sell it ,too. I am sure if you emailed them also that they would be happy to answer back. They are great people. Here is their website. http://www.thegardendiet.com/storm.html Well, I have taken you to his
Maybe your right or maybe he is eating massive amount of highly concentrated raw foods which their group sells.
Blake
Thomas E. Billings wrote:
>The moderator of the electronic bulletin board on the NFL site, has >politely asked me to post the following URL as a counterbalance to the >URL/article posted previously: > >http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000006 > >I normally comply with reasonable, polite requests. My original >post follows. Since weight gain is associated with cooked food consumption, >my question - how raw is he, really? - is a reasonable, relevant, >and polite question. > >PS I am not critical of cooked food
>< and an under-the-sink "brick" > > >>style filter for drinking water.> >> >> > > what system is a brick filter ? > > > Informally termed a "brick" it is a relatively small (about the size of a clay brick), dense, multi-layer water filter (often a cylinder) usually consisting of a carbon filter section and a mechanical filter made to block particles larger than 1-2 microns or so. These can be used in above- or below-the-sink situations and are usually for low-volume such as for drinking/ cooking water.
Science, Vol 308, Issue 5728, 1635-1638, 10 June 2005
Diversity of the Human Intestinal Microbial Flora Paul B. Eckburg, Elisabeth M. Bik, Charles N. Bernstein, Elizabeth Purdom, Les Dethlefsen, Michael Sargent, Steven R. Gill, Karen E. Nelson, David A. Relman1
The human endogenous intestinal microflora is an essential "organ" in providing nourishment, regulating epithelial development, and instructing innate immunity; yet, surprisingly, basic features remain poorly described. We examined 13,355 prokaryotic ribosomal RNA gene sequences from multiple colonic mucosal sites and feces of healthy subjects to improve our understanding of gut microbial diversity. A majority of the bacterial sequences corresponded to
I won't claim to fully understand the post either - however... it would seem that our internal bacterial (et al?) ecosystem is vital to our good health and provides a more-or-less symbiotic relationship with each of us. To me this means that I don't ever want to intentionally kill those internal bacteria (never will use antibiotics knowingly) and, further, that I want to properly "feed" them (and, thus, me) through careful decisions about my diet. I do not care if there is dirt (with attendant, living microbes) on my vegetables; mould on my berries, etc. Though not germane to the
----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Maddox" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: Re: diversity of human gut bacteria
> > > don't mean to sound dumb here but what exactly does this mean in simple > laymens terms??
> I don't ever want to intentionally kill those > internal bacteria (never will use antibiotics knowingly)
I'd assume that you do not drink chlorinated water or wash you food with chlorinated water or buy vegetables that were sprinkled with chlorinated water either, no?
Saaham Atman
~ who can draw a straight line between fiction and nonfiction anyway ~
Correct - I have a whole-house carbon filter that takes out the chlorine (including outside garden and pond water) and an under-the-sink "brick" style filter for drinking water.
-=mark=-
Beatrice Reusch wrote:
>Theta Sigma wrote: > > > >>I don't ever want to intentionally kill those >>internal bacteria (never will use antibiotics knowingly) >> >> > >I'd assume that you do not drink chlorinated water or wash you food >with chlorinated water or buy vegetables that were sprinkled with >chlorinated water either, no? > > > [snip]
Most rawfooders have seen the common sprouts: alfalfa, clover, sunflower, onion, broccoli, etc. However, a local business is selling some less common micro-greens, or baby greens:
cilantro (coriander), sage, arugula, pepper cress, tatsol, mizuna, pak choi
and others. It will be interesting to see ifg these catch on and become popular.
PS methi = fenugreek leaves are also available, though they are from mature plants and not seedlings. Once in a while lentil greens can be found in the local markets as well.
Hello, Does anyone know whether chimpanzees eat fruits and leaves together (in the same meal)? And if they do, do they eat them in any particular sequence or in the same mouthful?
Thanks.
Saaham Atman
~ who can draw a straight line between fiction and nonfiction anyway ~
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 81, No. 6, 1298-1306, June 2005
Effect of an energy-restricted, high-protein, low-fat diet relative to a conventional high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet on weight loss, body composition, nutritional status, and markers of cardiovascular health in obese women Manny Noakes, Jennifer B Keogh, Paul R Foster and Peter M Clifton
Abstract Background: Limited evidence suggests that a higher ratio of protein to carbohydrate during weight loss has metabolic advantages.
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 81, No. 6, 1267-1274, June 2005
Risk of overweight and obesity among semivegetarian, lactovegetarian, and vegan women PK Newby, Katherine L Tucker and Alicja Wolk
Abstract Background: Observational studies suggest that a plant-based diet is inversely related to body mass index (BMI), overweight, and obesity.
Objective: Our objective was to examine the BMI (kg/m2) and risk of overweight and obesity of self-defined semivegetarian, lactovegetarian, and vegan women.
Fatal inflammatory heart disease in a bonobo (Pan paniscus). Jones P, Mahamba C, Rest J, Andre C.
Abstract We report the first probable identification of encephalomyocarditis virus (EMCV) in a bonobo (Pan paniscus) that had been part of a forest re-introduction programme. Clinical presentation was of episodic acute on chronic heart failure and cerebral infarction with end-stage renal failure rather than sudden death which is more commonly associated with EMCV infection. A postmortem diagnosis of probable EMCV was made using gross pathological and histopathological examination. Findings included acute on chronic heart failure combined with the
Evolution and Human Behavior Volume 26, Issue 2 , March 2005, Pages 206-212
Book review
In: Anne E. Russon and David R. Begun, Editors, The evolution of thought: Evolutionary origins of great ape intelligence, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK (2002) ISBN 0521783356 394 pages, £65.00. David C. Geary
Evolution and Human Behavior Volume 26, Issue 2 , March 2005, Pages 137-157
Meat sharing for coalitional support John Q. Patton
Abstract In this paper, I review hypotheses about why hunters share meat, and I use quantitative data on meat transfers between households of Achuar, Quichua, and Zapara speakers in Conambo, an indigenous community of horticultural foragers in the Ecuadorian Amazon, to test them. I show that meat is distributed to political allies in Conambo and argue that meat is strategically transferred to recruit and maintain coalitional support in a political landscape where loyalties are shifting, crosscutting, and consequential. Additionally,
The August 2004 issue of Behavioral and Brain Sciences has a number of articles on the evolution of human speech, and the role of food sharing in evolution. Some of the articles also touch on the topics of bipedalism and encephalization (among other interesting topics).
Now for the good part: right now the whole issue is available as a free, sample issue online. The table of contents is at:
Science, Vol 308, Issue 5725, 1161-1164 , 20 May 2005
The Highland Mangabey Lophocebus kipunji: A New Species of African Monkey Trevor Jones, Carolyn L. Ehardt, Thomas M. Butynski, Tim R. B. Davenport, Noah E. Mpunga, Sophy J. Machaga, Daniela W. De Luca
A change of mind? p425 Putting evolutionary psychology to the test. Oliver Curry reviews Adapting Minds: Evolutionary Psychology and the Persistent Quest for Human Nature by David J. Buller
A special article on plagiarism in academia (plagiarism is common in raw):
fruit sharing for apparent social, not nutritional, purposes:
American Journal of Primatology Volume 65, Issue 4 , Pages 385 - 391
Fruit sharing between wild adult chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes schweinfurthii): a socially significant event? Katie E. Slocombe, Nicholas E. Newton-Fisher
Abstract Although food sharing is a habitual aspect of chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) life, sharing of plant foods between unrelated adults is rare. Observations of such behavior have typically been interpreted as the outcome of a process by which individuals that are otherwise unable to gain access to the food manage to obtain a nutritional benefit. Here we present behavioral details
an upcoming article in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology. Chimps using herbal medicines:
Journal of Ethnopharmacology Article in Press, Corrected Proof
Ethnomedicinal and bioactive properties of plants ingested by wild chimpanzees in Uganda
Sabrina Kriefa, Claude Marcel Hladika, and Claudie Haxaire
Abstract
Wild chimpanzees eat several plant species claimed by traditional healers to cure diseases. However, the behaviour leading apes to ingest these peculiar species is not clearly understood. Some of the items consumed by chimpanzees have low nutritional value, and there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that health might be improved or regulated by such ingestion. Observations concerning
Eighty percent of proteins are different between humans and chimpanzees.
Glazko G, Veeramachaneni V, Nei M, Makalowski W.
Institute of Molecular Evolutionary Genetics, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA.
The chimpanzee is our closest living relative. The morphological differences between the two species are so large that there is no problem in distinguishing between them. However, the nucleotide difference between the two species is surprisingly small. The early genome comparison by DNA hybridization techniques suggested a nucleotide difference of 1-2%. Recently, direct nucleotide sequencing confirmed this estimate. These findings generated the common belief that
A milk analogue made from raw peanuts is gaining popularity here in the San Francisco bay area, especially in the local Chinese community. Like wheatgrass, it has numerous healing testimonials. It is now being distributed commecially, and can be obtained at Berkeley Bowl in Berkeley, California.
Info at: http://peanutmilk.net/en/ <- info in english; click on button in upper left for Chinese or Spanish.
ingredients do not state it is from raw peanuts. it says 'fresh' peanuts. u can have fresh roasted peanuts.
does not state organic either.
they add sugar.
contains natural flavors - what does that mean? according to labeling laws, u can term msg 'natural flavors'.
what kinds of herbs and spices are added? r they artificial? what will they use for irish creme flavor? cremora? nowhere does it state nor artificial ingredients or chemicals r used.
the latest issue of the CRFG (California Rare Fruits Growers) magazine features the 1st of a 3 part article on the history of the apple. The same article reports that wild apples of Asia and Europe were largely inedible. It seems that modern apples are very much the result of thousand of years of plant breeding and cultivar selection.
An interesting article in the current issue of Science magazine:
Pleistocene Park: Return of the Mammoth's Ecosystem Sergey A. Zimov Science, Vol 308, Issue 5723, 796-798 , 6 May 2005
About 10,000 years ago, when the million-year-long Pleistocene epoch gave way to the ongoing Holocene epoch, much of the world's ecosystems changed. In what is now northern Siberia, vast numbers of large animals, among them mammoths, woolly rhinoceroses, and yaks, both thrived on and nurtured the steppes that, compared to other northern regions of the world, remained relatively unscathed from the repeated advances and retreats of ice sheets. Even so,
Time for some fun. The following claims are false, yet common among the raw/veg*n pseudoscience frauds/self-appointed "raw science experts". [sarcasm alert]
1. (Raw) vegans don't need to take B-12 supplements.
This puts people, especially infants, at risk of deficiency. Shame on the fakes!
2. Mother's milk is "similar to" sweet fruit, in nutritional composition.
One statistically illiterate, arrogant pseudoscience fake has produced two elaborate "statistical" proofs for this claim. One was based on correlation, the latest on neural networks. Both proofs are totally invalid, and are textbook examples of BLATANT SCIENTIFIC FRAUD by a fake self-appointed raw vegan "science expert".
Ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acids and bone mineral density in older adults: the Rancho Bernardo Study Lauren A Weiss, Elizabeth Barrett-Connor and Denise von Mühlen
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 81, No. 4, 934-938, April 2005
Abstract:
Background: Several lines of evidence suggest that n-3 fatty acids reduce the risk of some chronic diseases, including heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. Other research, mainly in animals, also suggests a role in bone health.
A new study published in the latest issue of "Science" finds GM rice to be a positive factor:
Insect-Resistant GM Rice in Farmers' Fields: Assessing Productivity and Health Effects in China Jikun Huang, Ruifa Hu, Scott Rozelle, Carl Pray
Science, Vol 308, Issue 5722, 688-690 , 29 April 2005
Abstract Although no country to date has released a major genetically modified (GM) food grain crop, China is on the threshold of commercializing GM rice. This paper studies two of the four GM varieties that are now in farm-level preproduction trials, the last step before commercialization. Farm surveys of randomly selected
I am curious what is your point to share with us the latest GM promotional study ? .rice does not need pesticides to grow healthy and produce high yieldings ( confer Manasobu fukuoka's 50 years of experience growing high yields rice the natural way without tilling ,fertilising, weeding nor treating diseases.) . the scientific aproach to farming has demonstrated the need for more and more sophistication to be able to maintain some kind of productivity ( not the kind raw foodists should be interested in... who cares about how voluminous crops are ?). The cost of this endless quest in
> why share the study? > > So you get a different viewpoint.
if i understand it right .this view point is that chemicals are necessarry to grow rice and that by creating genitically a rice that get less affected by diseases, we did improve on rice cultivation toward a "healthier" product. i don't need a raw food list to get this view point it is all around the mass medias accessible to everyone . my view point is that no man made chemicals have ever been necessarry to grow the most magnificent plants and ecosytems and that for some
An interesting book on the topic from University of California press:
Julie Guthman
Agrarian Dreams The Paradox of Organic Farming in California
Published August 2004 California Studies in Critical Human Geography, 11
Brief reviews:
"Agrarian Dreams throws a cold shower of reality over the dream of organic agriculture in California, demonstrating all that is lost when organic farming goes industrial. This is a challenging book, and until we can answer the hard questions Julie Guthman poses, a genuinely sustainable agriculture will elude us."--Michael Pollan, author of The Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World
Here's a new book coming out in June 2005, from the University of California Press (a not-for-profit organization), that may interest some list members:
Tending the Wild : Native American Knowledge and the Management of California's Natural Resources (Hardcover) by M. Kat Anderson
Description: John Muir was an early proponent of a view we still hold today--that much of California was pristine, untouched wilderness before the arrival of Europeans. But as this groundbreaking book demonstrates, what Muir was really seeing when he admired the grand vistas of Yosemite and the gold and purple flowers carpeting the Central Valley were the
You have tried to replace the raw animal proteins and raw fat found in mother's milk with plant source food. Her behaviour is typical, and can be expected of children on a high carbohydrate diet.
William
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:06:32 -0400, frieda gelber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I have an adopted > non-relative female child who is now 3 years of age, whom I have > had from infancy, and consequently was unable to breastfeed her. > She has struggled with feedings from infancy, with the usual > constipation from commercial formulas. I have tried to sustain her on > raw
Does anyone know of a trauma or orthopedic surgeon who knows about the raw vegan diet?
MY brother is a raw vegan (no meat, no dairy no cooked food - only raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds)). He was in a motorcycle accident 3/30/05, and is in University of Maryland Shock Trauma with compound fractures of pelvis and tibia. He came through the operation OK, but within 24 hours of the administration of IMPACT Glutamine he bloated up to maximum - like a puffer fish.
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:04:07 -0400 Kate Burton <[log in to unmask]> writes: > Hello! > > Does anyone know of a trauma or orthopedic surgeon who knows about > the raw > vegan diet? > > MY brother is a raw vegan (no meat, no dairy no cooked food - only > raw > fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds)). He was in a motorcycle > accident > 3/30/05, and is in University of Maryland Shock Trauma with > compound > fractures of pelvis and tibia. He came through the operation OK, but > within > 24
Heal Your Body and Immune System with Glyconutrients www.glycoscience.org and www.nobelsugars.com for information Call me for more information.
Best Water Filter on Planet Earth www.thewellnessfilter.com (ID#9210266)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Maddox" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:13 PM Subject: suggestions for a good site or book..
I have read several books and been on several of the "Raw" sites.. is there one site that you all feel is the most informative about the raw life, it's healing, and suggestions for setting up for eating raw??
There are several lists that cater to the raw-food lifestyle. Some are supportive and positive while others air widely differing viewpoints (including negative comments about certain aspects of the diet). Here are a few that I usually peruse:
1. A more scholarly, academic, open-minded medical viewpoint: [log in to unmask] This isn't all about raw foods since cooking is okay too here. More about early humans and how they might have eaten, etc. For this list, which is run by a computer "major domo" software system, you need to send them an e-mail request to subscribe to their list. I
Raw Food Diet Support List <[log in to unmask]> on Thursday, April 7, 2005 at 11:57 PM -0500 wrote: >I have probably 10 or more books devoted to the concepts of raw food >eating and/or healing using traditional, folk methods. If anyone is >interested I will put together that list and send it forward. > >Best regards, > >-=mark=-
Hi Mark, Yes, could you please list the books? Thank you for your information! Jessica
Thanks for the suggestions Mark... I was a member of the paleo group.. a bit too strong there for me.. and I would prefer only raw veggies and fruits and no cooked or uncooked meats... any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Oops! Sorry I misunderstood, Debbie. I do not have any references for vegetarian (ovo-lacto?) or vegan sites or books. I can only recommend that you learn as much as possible about balancing your diet so that you get all the nutrients you need to be healthy.
-=mark=-
Debbie Maddox wrote:
>Thanks for the suggestions Mark... I was a member of the paleo group.. a bit >too strong there for me.. and I would prefer only raw veggies and fruits and >no cooked or uncooked meats... any other suggestions would be greatly >appreciated. > > >Debbie Maddox >Aromatic Wings >www.aromaticwings.com >
In a message dated 4/8/05 11:01:56 AM Central Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Oops! Sorry I misunderstood, Debbie. I do not have any references for > vegetarian (ovo-lacto?) or vegan sites or books. I can only recommend > that you learn as much as possible about balancing your diet so that you > get all the nutrients you need to be healthy. >
I'm the one who had the misunderstanding. Please accept my apologies for causing confusion. -=mark=-
Debbie Maddox wrote:
>In a message dated 4/8/05 11:01:56 AM Central Daylight Time, >[log in to unmask] writes: > > > >>Oops! Sorry I misunderstood, Debbie. I do not have any references for >>vegetarian (ovo-lacto?) or vegan sites or books. I can only recommend >>that you learn as much as possible about balancing your diet so that you >>get all the nutrients you need to be healthy. >> >> >> > >thought that was what this groups is for.... am I incorrect in this thinking? > > >Debbie
For some good input on vegan books, living foods lifestyle etc, go to http://www.lifeknox.com I have several there relating to IBS, Candida, Cancer etc.
Well, yes. Once the body starts receiving good, healthy, raw foods in the right combinations that do not cause new toxins to be created/ stored in the body, the body will be able to cleanse old toxins from the tissues on its own, slowly - in its own good time.
If you are familiar with the term "osmosis" (and kindly pardon my simplification) then you'll understand that, when cleansing, materials (toxins) flow from areas of high density (e.g., tissues) to areas of low density (e.g., colon) in an attempt to achieve equilibrium (cleansing). This is one of the earmarks and
The latest issue of PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, US) has a report that concludes that ALL CYANOBACTERIA (including that expensive stuff from Klamath Lake) has the potential to produce neurotoxins.
As the report is new, I doubt that the Klamath algae sellers are directly testing for the listed toxin. However, their indirect (animal) tests may be a sufficient alternative.
It might not seem so from the abstract, but the article below talks about a new paradigm of biology based on communities and ecosystems rather than genes and molecules.
Freeman Dyson has a 1 page review of the article cited below in the March 2005 issue of the "MIT Techonolgy Review" (p, 27). Dyson argues that once humans dominated the earth and began modifying and controlling it, strict Darwinian evolution ended and was replaced by cultural evolution. These articles are interesting reads, and yet another nail in the coffins of the pro-raw pseudoscience liars who claim cultural evolution does not
Today's issue of Science magazine has several articles on the human gut, the abstract of one of which appears below. I encourage you to read the articles and increase your knowledge in this important area.
Science, Vol 307, Issue 5717, 1915-1920 , 25 March 2005 Host-Bacterial Mutualism in the Human Intestine Fredrik Beckhed, Ruth E. Ley, Justin L. Sonnenburg, Daniel A. Peterson, Jeffrey I. Gordon
1. These folks used to come to the Saturday Berkeley Farmer's market. I never bought any of their dehydrated snacks as they were extremely expensive, maybe $3-5 for a single cookie. I'm amazed that they can get away with such high prices -- most raw fooders are not rich.
The latest issue of "Fruit Gardener", the magazine of the California Rare Fruit Growers (March/April 2005, vol 37, #2) has an article re: wild strains of bananas in Borneo:
Borneo Expeditions for researching bananas by Markku Hakkinen; pp. 14-18.
Anyway, the article has 2 photos of ripe, wild bananas on pg. 14, and the bananas are loaded with shiny black seeds.
and register for acess (free, no charge). That gives you online access to the Jaramila Endoscopy Atlas, with lots of color photos taken inside the colon and other parts of the digestive tract.
Note the lack of the dreaded "mucoid plaque" promoted by people selling colon cleansing regimes.
Raw Food Diet Support List <[log in to unmask]> on Friday, March 11, 2005 at 6:41 PM -0500 wrote: >You can go to > >http://www.gastrosource.com > >and register for acess (free, no charge). That gives you online >access to the Jaramila Endoscopy Atlas, with lots of color photos taken >inside the colon and other parts of the digestive tract. > >Note the lack of the dreaded "mucoid plaque" promoted by >people selling colon cleansing regimes. > >Tom Billings
>You can go to > >http://www.gastrosource.com > >and register for acess (free, no charge). That gives you online >access to the Jaramila Endoscopy Atlas, with lots of color photos taken inside the colon and other parts of the digestive tract. > >Note the lack of the dreaded "mucoid plaque" promoted by >people selling colon cleansing regimes. > >Tom Billings > Tom,
I'm wondering if that material was the lining itself that sloughed off (which is a normal process as I understand?) and then, because of the lack of food and therefore minimal/no peristalsis, remained in your system and died , turning black and then hardening over time. Once it got sufficiently hard, peristaltic action then resumed discharging it from the body?
>Hi David; > >I'm wondering if that material was the lining itself that sloughed off >(which is a normal process as I understand?) and then, because of the lack >of food and therefore minimal/no peristalsis, remained in your system and >died , turning black and then hardening over time. Once it got sufficiently >hard, peristaltic action then resumed discharging it from the body? > >Marilyn > > I talked with Dr. Bernarr last night and now think that what I experienced was just the colon contents that had dried up over the 37 days. Your statement describes
thanks for the followups. Remember that fecal matter is 50+% bacterial origin, so one can have bowel movements even when fasting.
The rawist myth is that the colon has mucoid plaque -- but medical doctors who look at colons everyday with special equipment, tell us that the mucoid plaque does not exist and they have photos to back up their claims.
Hi everyone, I am new to this list and generally new to the raw food lifestyle and trying to understand what it is exactly that needs to be done first. Cleansing, Fasting< or just plain eating a raw-living food diet? I want the most from this journey and would love to start right.
In the posts from other lists and books I have read.. they state a good cleaning of the colon is the best way to start. Now reading these posts here I have gotten confused. I have read the Mucusless diet- by Prof. Ehert. Now according to these
Debbie - just my $0.02 worth - colon cleansing should be done from the inside, through foods we eat (and don't), slowly, over time without disturbing the beneficial floral found in the digestive tract. Externally applied colon cleansing is brash, perilous, deadly to the intestinal flora and only a band-aid, short-term assault. (And I've done it twice long ago - and it did nothing positive for me at all). Remember the colon is just one part of the body. Following a balanced raw food diet will cleanse the whole body over time.
Debbie, The answer really lies in your own intuition after gathering the all information you can. I believe colonics, done in a conservative manner (not too many or too frequently) with planning and a very qualified technician can be extremely beneficial in aiding my body's desire to heal and cleanse. I also use a neti pot to cleanse my sinus's and washing that mucus out periodically is a boost, especially during cold and allergy season. My body will work hard to get rid of the toxins, but why not give it some gentle assistance? Then aide the beneficial flora and
In a message dated 4/7/05 10:39:24 AM Central Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> colon cleansing should be done from the > inside, through foods we eat (and don't), slowly, over time without > disturbing the beneficial floral found in the digestive tract. >
thanks mark... but any particular colon cleansing foods??
Interesting new paper (below). Trade, as an aspect of universal human culture, may have served as a (buffer against) certain evolutionary selective pressures at one point in our history. The raw vegan pseudoscience fakes who dismiss the culture-evolution link as Lamarckism, are only fooling themselves:
How trade saved humanity from biological exclusion: an economic theory of Neanderthal extinction
"How many vegans does it take to screw in a lightbulb? It takes three: One to do it, one to read the package very carefully, and a third to scrutinize the proceedings with a dour expression. "
Here's a challenge for those who claim humans are natural frugivores:
Please list some of the peer-reviewed, scientific journal articles that are specifically (and only) about frugivores and/or frugivory, and for which you have read the full-text of the article(s). Specify authors, title, journal, and other details. Also specify the date when you first read the article. This is a test: are you speaking from knowledge, or from ideology/religion?<br>
>Please list some of the peer-reviewed, scientific journal articles >that are specifically (and only) about frugivores and/or frugivory, >and for which you have read the full-text of the article(s). Specify
Technical Clarification: Note that the Chivers/Hladik article set re: gut morphology does not count as that article set covers faunivores, folivores, fruigivores, and other classes. In general those articles are not frugivore-only.
Stable carbon isotope analyses have shown that South African australopiths did not have exclusively frugivorous diets, but also consumed significant quantities of C4 foods such as grasses, sedges, or animals that ate these foods. Yet, these studies have had significant limitations. For example, hominin sample sizes were relatively small, leading
The pseudoscience frauds make the science fiction claim that humans are "obligate frugivores" with a natural diet that is a very high percentage of fruit, and vegetarian too. However, those of us (like me) who have extensive experience in climbing trees (to pick fruit) know that humans are not adapted to tree-climbing. Even using tools, we tend to fall out of trees (I was lucky and survived 3 bad falls).
Is it ok to chop up raw corn and just munch on that?
I am new to the whole raw food thing, and am trying to ease my way into it, and get off the horrible diet I have been on all my life. My brother is helping me & encouraging me to do this!
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 02:33:02 -0800, boat1400 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hello, > > Is it ok to chop up raw corn and just munch on that? > > I am new to the whole raw food thing, and am trying to > ease my way into it, and get off the horrible diet I have > been on all my life. My brother is helping me & encouraging > me > to do this! > > I went to the organic store, the one that sells the > corn from a bushel looking thing, and I weighed out >
Congratulations for taking responsibility for your health and diet! It sounds like you've already seen the deep crud of conflicting information surrounding this way of life. You will have to be the one to decide what makes sense to you and what doesn't fit.
Even the enzyme theory is controversial. What doesn't seem to be in question is that food without labels eaten in it's natural state is beneficial to health.
Previously I posted here about the latest (2004) book by Boyd & Richerson. Turns out they have an older book on the subject:
Culture and the Evolutionary Process 1985, University of Chicago Press.
The older book is excellent as well. It is loaded with mathematical models of evolution, in which the transmission of culture is a system of inheritance -- one that ultimately effects survival rates, hence is an evolutionary selective pressure in the strict Darwinian sense.
Re: speculation. Given that raw vegan with supplementation fails for many people, I doubt that better or "higher brix" produce will do the trick.
Most plant fooods contain secondary compounds designed to discourage herbivores. This is even true for fruit, but to a lesser degree. Speculation: higher nutrient levels are associated with higher levels of nutritional inhibitors. The inhibitors reduce bioavailability of nutrients.
Attention: the URL above might work for only a week. After that you will need to visit the main site and search for the article.
Print citation: article title, author per above. "East Bay Express" (a free weekly newspaper with an arts/entertainment focus) 5 Jan 2005, vol. 27, #13, pp. 13-15, 17, 19-20, 22. Published by East Bay Express Publishing, Emeryville, California
Fortunateley, the person ignored the stupid advice of the Fry-bot, got proper medical attention and is OK.
Then someone noted that liability follows along with advice, and maybe the list moderator should do something about the bad & dangerous medical advice freely handed out by people whose only training is a low quality correspondence course written by TC Fry, a high school dropout. Of course this voice of reason is attacked by the true believers in the "one true religion and diet of raw foods":
I knew a Jim Billings in Baltimore.You are very good. Usually I ignore all the nonsense that comes to us but yours are good.. What are you trying to do? You could have a very good EZINE with.what you are doing ... I wish I could be as good. Peter Pantel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas E. Billings" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:28 AM Subject: bad medical advice from fake "diet-doctors"
My copy of the book "Not by Genes Alone: How Culture Transformed Human Evolution" just arrived, and I have quickly skimmed through it.
My initial impressions are that the book is well-done, thorough (30 pages of references cited for 315 pgs of text), and very interesting. The book presents a Darwinian analysis of the impact of culture on evolution. The pro-raw pseudoscience frauds blatantly lie about the culture-evolution linkage, calling it Lamarckism. This book shows the pseudoscience types for the ignorant liars they are.
Here's an article that provides some detail re: the kind of analysis done in a paper I mentioned some weeks ago. That paper analyzed the marks on bones and concluded that humans were more predator than scavenger in prehistoric times.
Journal title: Journal of Human Evolution Citation details: Volume 47, Issue 5 , November 2004, Pages 343-357
The article below is an analysis (in a non-human primate, the hyrax) that supports the hypothesis that consumption of cooked foods was a factor in the reduction of face size in humans during evolution. That is yet another example of culture (cooking food) driving morphological change.
Journal title: Journal of Human Evolution Citatin details: Volume 46, Issue 6 , June 2004, Pages 655-677
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:24:26 -0800, Thomas E. Billings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> The article below is an analysis (in a non-human primate, the hyrax) that > supports the hypothesis that consumption of cooked foods was a factor in > the > reduction of face size in humans during evolution. That is yet another > example > of culture (cooking food) driving morphological change. >
>From: William <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Raw Food Diet Support List <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: impact of cooking on facial morphology >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:35:06 -0500 > >On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:24:26 -0800, Thomas E. Billings <[log in to unmask]> >wrote: > > > The article below is an analysis (in a non-human primate, the hyrax) >that > > supports the hypothesis that consumption of cooked foods was a factor in > > the > > reduction of face size in humans during evolution. That is yet another > > example > >
full text of the article is available in University libraries (those that subscribe to the journal) and for a fee, online.
It would be nice if the person who made a remark on the paper earlier, would clarify if that remark was based on reading full text, or instead was based only on the abstract.
If it was me, it was based only on the link you posted. I can't check further,as have lost recent mail.
William
> It would be nice if the person who made a remark on the paper earlier, > would clarify if that remark was based on reading full text, or > instead was based only on the abstract. > > Tom Billings
The human mouth has a sub-optimal design when it comes to the tasks of eating and breathing. In reality, the human mouth structure is instead optimized for speech and language. This is well-known among legitimate scientists, but of course the pseudoscience frauds ignore this fact. The frauds ignore the impact of language and technology (stone tool use and cooking) on the evolution of human oral structures. As usual, they put themselves in an IL-logical corner by ignoring evidence, and misrepresenting current info and/or relying on outdated old info.
Below is a recent article discussing insectivory among orangutans. Note that insects are a staple in the diet rather than a fallback food. Interesting! That chimps use tools to collect insects is common knowledge. Now it appears that orangutans engage in insectivory where the tool-making skills are present. More evidence against the "orangutans are natural vegetarians" claims.
As mentioned in a previous email, the pro-raw pseudoscience frauds claim that humans are "naked apes, without tools". An additional point often included in such claims is that humans are *tropical* apes.
The pseudoscience types then claim that humans have not evolved or adapted in any way to colder climates or meat eating, despite substantial supporting evidence. Here the pseudoscience types not only are ignoring evolution, but behaving like creationists.
I sent the article twice but never received it. It did arrive on the website so I assume others received the email. The topic was 'capuchin monkeys can use tools, fruitarian advocates cannot'.
Sorry for any inconvenience. Have a good holiday season!
[This is a resend. Original post never arrived at my end.]
One occasionally hears certain pro-raw pseudoscience types claiming that humans are "naked apes, without tools". This nonsense is sometimes offered in support of the false claim that humans are natural fruitarians=obligate frugivores. Of course, such views are merely science fiction. That non-human primates use tools for a variety of purposes is now well-known.
One occasionally hears certain pro-raw pseudoscience types claiming that humans are "naked apes, without tools". This nonsense is sometimes offered in support of the false claim that humans are natural fruitarians=obligate frugivores. Of course, such views are merely science fiction. That non-human primates use tools for a variety of purposes is now well-known.
The article below describes the capuchin monkey using tools. (This is not the first such article -- tool use by capuchins goes back years in the primatology literature.) The capuchin monkey has a very small brain. Despite the handicap in brain size, one might conclude that the
Here's another recent reference on the culture-evolution linkage. It deals with something even more fundamental: behavior-evolution linkage. Page 270 has a beautiful chart that summarizes the linkages.
Journal title: The Quarterly Review of Biology Citation details: Vol. 79, No. 3, September 2004, pp 241-278
Article title: Behavioral Syndromes: An Integrative Overview Article authors: Andrew Sih, Alison M Bell, J Chadwick Johnson, and Robert E Ziemba
The URL below discusses fasting from a Buddhist monk's perspective. Note the very interesting paragraph re: fasting was a spiritual hindrance, not a help, to the Buddha.
I am posting this because it gives a different view on fasting and may interest some list readers. It is not my intention to promote religion. Those who are anti-religion might be ofended by the URL below and should not read it.
>In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:40:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: The URL below discusses fasting from a Buddhist monk's perspective. Note the very interesting paragraph re: fasting was a spiritual hindrance, not a help, to the Buddha. I am posting this because it gives a different view on fasting and may interest some list readers. It is not my intention to promote religion. Those who are anti-religion might be ofended by the URL below and should not read it. http://paramita.typepad.com/dharma_forest/2004/11/on_fasting_a_bu.html#more PS on some other raw lists/bulletin boards, I see people discussing how their diet allegedly makes them more
The pro-raw pseudoscience fakes argue that culture cannot impact evolution. They openly lie about the culture-evolution linkage, falsely misrepresenting the logic and calling it Lamarckism. Of course the pseudoscience types are in a (logical) corner and have to make ridiculous and dishonest arguments, as the culture-evolution linkage is an incredibly powerful evolutionary selective force driving human adaptations to cooked foods and meat-eating.
Per the 3 Dec 2004 issue of "Science" magazine (vol 306, pp. 1672-1673), the soybean rust fungus has been found growing in the Southeastern US. The fungus is devastating to soybeans, and may start reducing the soybean yield in the US as early as next year. (Until this year, the US was the only soybean producing region that was rust-free. The USDA has been researching rust for years, so no one was caught unaware.)
The article is dated in the sense that it was written in 1978. However, research since then has further confirmed the paper's findings. See. e.g., the research of Craig Stanford and Christpher Boesch.
Some vegetarian writers try to rationalize away humanity's evolutionary past as hunter-gatherers by claiming that prehistoric humans were at best occasional scavengers and poor hunters. A recent review article torpedos such claims for the nonsense they are.
"Early hominid hunting and scavenging: a zooarcheological review" M. Dominguez-Rodrigo, T.R. Pickering Evolutionary Anthropology 2003, vol. 12, 275-282
You might be aware that the patent system is subject to abuse, and that people are filing bogus and ridiculous patent applications.
The link below is to a patent application in Australia that is trying to patent: dehydrating, sprouting, blending of raw foods. Let's hope the Australian patent office rejects the application...
> The link below is to a patent application in Australia that is > trying to patent: dehydrating, sprouting, blending of > raw foods. Let's hope the Australian patent office rejects > the application... > > http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/aub/pdf/nps/2004/0902/2004100620A4/2004100620.pdf
what a patent , if it was to be accepted , like , that will imply for other peoples who din't "invent" raw foods preparations but are doing it . will they becomes illegal ? wil they have to pay something to the "inventor".
IF the patent is accepted, then the patent owner can sue people who {dehydrate, sprout, blend} raw foods for patent infringement. However, if the patent owner is so foolish as to do so, he will almost surely see the patent declared invalid due to what the patent offices refer to as "prior art" -- the fact that the methods were known and in use by others BEFORE the patent was issued.
an interesting article on the fruit hybridization business is at fortune.com. To read the entire article, go to:
http://www.cnn.com
and scroll to the bottom, use link under "Fortune" magazine, article title "Is Designer Fruit the next big thing?".
You can access it directly through fortune.com, but unless you are a subscriber, you might only get to read half the article. The access route above - via cnn.com, lets you read the whole article for free.
Hi all, I am very interested in obtaining a copy of the pre-1999 archives. Would anyone be able to e-mail them to me? I remember there was a lot of good info in them (especially on instincto stuff) but they have disappeared and now I am sad. I have been a rawer (rawpaleo type RVAF) for around four years and have never posted here but I have enjoyed reading the discussions and I have learned a lot from this list. Thanks, Charles
>Hi all, >I am very interested in obtaining a copy of the pre-1999 archives. Would >anyone be able to e-mail them to me? I remember there was a lot of good >info in them (especially on instincto stuff) but they have disappeared and >now I am sad. I have been a rawer (rawpaleo type RVAF) for around four >years and have never posted here but I have enjoyed reading the >discussions and I have learned a lot from this list. >Thanks, >Charles > I have them. There are 42 monthly log files. This is a lot of emailing.
AFAIK the coastal waters are no better than the polluted air we breath. Not surprising that marine critters sicken in that environment.
William
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:30:48 -0800, Thomas E. Billings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> for those folks who believe (incorrectly) that wild animals never > get sick: > > > http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/localstoryN1128DOLPHIN.htm > > Tom Billings
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:46:33 -0500, William <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>AFAIK the coastal waters are no better than the polluted air we breath. >Not surprising that marine critters sicken in that environment. > >William
I agree. The other thing is that wild animals do get sick but it is usually after they have been injured and are consequently unable to get food which might help them heal. Unlike most animals, humans have complex social networks which offset such problems so they can still be well nourished when injured/ill, and are more likely to recover as a result. There are many
includes PubMed and many online article archives. Does not include many other important online databases like BioSis, Agricola, ANTH, etc.
Still, it's a tool worth trying. One issue: most of the links require payment - limited free content as most academic articles require subscription or per-article fee payment. These per-article fees range from $10-50 or more, depending on the greed of the publisher.
"Born to run" and not "born to climb trees and pick fruit". New evidence that the fully upright bipedal posture reduces human's abilities to climb trees.
Yahoo News report based on an article that appears in the current "Nature" magazine:
Our genetic make-up, shaped through millions of years of evolution, determines our nutritional and activity needs. Although the human genome has remained primarily unchanged since the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago, our diet and lifestyle have become progressively more divergent from those of our ancient ancestors. Accumulating evidence suggests that this mismatch between our modern diet and lifestyle and our Paleolithic genome is playing a substantial role in the ongoing epidemics of obesity, hypertension, diabetes, and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Until 500 generations ago, all humans consumed only wild and unprocessed food foraged and hunted from their environment. These
Along with their book, I received some -- EXPENSIVE -- pieces of durian from the authors of Genefit Nutrition, Devivo & Spors. Quite different from eating fresh, whole, living durian, indeed; more like eating candy. Personally, I did not experience any of the positive effects I feel after eating fresh durian. I have not tried the seeds yet, though; I figure they must be good.
What was the contact info? A website? How much? Some more details perhaps?
Cheers, Kirt
On Monday, October 4, 2004, at 06:01 AM, Beatrice Reusch wrote:
> Along with their book, I received some -- EXPENSIVE -- pieces of durian > from the authors of Genefit Nutrition, Devivo & Spors. Quite different > from eating fresh, whole, living durian, indeed; more like eating > candy. Personally, I did not experience any of the positive effects I > feel after eating fresh durian. I have not tried the seeds yet, though; > I figure they must be good. >
> Hi Beatrice, > > What was the contact info? A website? How much? Some more details > perhaps?
Hello Kirt,
[1] Cutup durian: Please check this site <http://www.thepurefoodnetwork.org/>
Incidentally, doesn't durian grow in Mexico as well? Couldn't fresh, whole durian be imported from Mexico? Personally, I avoid fruit from Hawaii, since I think it gets treated with hot water and perhaps bleach and other chemicals. Does anyone know for sure?
> > Hello Kirt, > > [1] Cutup durian: > Please check this site <http://www.thepurefoodnetwork.org/>
Thanks, Beatrice.
> > Incidentally, doesn't durian grow in Mexico as well? Couldn't fresh, > whole durian be imported from Mexico?
Theoretically. I don't know of any commercial Mexican plantings, but my ignorance is great.
> Personally, I avoid fruit from Hawaii, since I think it gets treated > with hot water and perhaps bleach and other chemicals. Does anyone know > for sure?
--- In [log in to unmask], "Steve" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Here in Arizona, we hold raw retreats at the Hot Springs in southeastern Arizona.
And occasionally, we've invited David WereWolfe and his entourage to be the guests of honor. (And he's paid handsomely for his efforts.)
Earlier this year, we invited him and his followers to our retreat, and in the days immediately after our retreat, he held one of his own. (Which seemed a little sleazy to me; as we invited him and he takes full advantage of our hospitality by hosting his own retreat right after ours? As in, why go to
Many thanks, Jean-Claude for describing the sapote nail test.
Now, here is my next dumb question to the list members: For someone living in California, is there a way to get fresh, not frozen, durians preferably from Malaysia or Vietnam, but if they must come from Thailand so be it.
> Berkeley Bowl in Berkeley, California carries FRESH (never FROZEN) > Durian. It > costs about $4.59/pound.
Are you sure they are fresh? I seriously doubt the Bowl's freshness. Here is why.
A few weeks ago I bought one there. I paid US $33 for just one durian. I took it home. Days later, when it was starting to split open, black mold started to show around its stem. I think I am done buying durians at the Berkeley Bowl. I have also seen molded coconuts in that particular store.
Here's my cent worth. If you are buying durian at Bowl or at Oakland Chinatown, ask the store to got the frozen one which has till the fresh green color. If they give you the one displayed outside, more likely they have been defrozen already for several hours, maybe even a whole day or two! I ended up with rotten durians a number of times.
Thanks so much, Tom. Your previous message motivated me to go back to the Berkeley Bowl -- with a realistic open mind, that is; holding no grudges against myself or anyone else. This time around I knew better. I should only pick up a durian that is not green but yellowish beige, that is already open, that smells really good. And I got three. I cannot think of any better way to spend the $84 I used to purchase the durians that my mind chased for quite some time.
Does anyone on this list know the relative merits of flax seeds vs. flaxseed oil?
I have extremely dry eyes and when I went to see an ophthalmologist today, he recommended taking 1000 mg of flax seed oil twice/day. According to a study he cited of 300 patients with dry eyes treated with flaxseed oil, 85% had total relief of their symptoms.
> Does anyone on this list know the relative merits of flax seeds vs. > flaxseed oil?
thing to know fatty acids in flax are very instable and get rancid very quickly . either oil extraction or milling is opening those fatty acids to be in contact with oxygene , even the best storgae devices invented don't stop the damage . you are better off to get full benefit of buying whole seeds to soak them in a lot of water for at least 24 hours then rinse and blender them just before adding to your meals .( the seeds
>Does anyone on this list know the relative merits of flax seeds vs. >flaxseed oil?
Flax seeds are 25% or whatever oil. That's enough, ain't it. You don't need the oil full strength. I have a coffee grinder and I use it for flax seeds. Flaxseeds are cheaper than the oil, have more nutrients, have fiber, probably keep better, probably taste better. Someone said flaxseed oil tastes like linseed oil.
Linseed oil IS flax oil. Rancid, of course, so if your flax oil tastes like that, don't eat it. Agreed, fresh-ground in a coffee-grinder it tasted good, but cannot be paleo. Without grinding, the seeds are said to pass through the body without change, and can be planted and grow.
William
On 10 August, 2004 03:41, Jerry Story wrote: Someone said flaxseed oil > tastes like linseed oil. > > I grind them, then dump them in carrot juice, mix. Tastes good.
What about grinding the flax seeds in a morter and pestle? Maybe paleos ground them between two stones?
Raw Food Diet Support List <[log in to unmask]> writes: >Linseed oil IS flax oil. Rancid, of course, so if your flax oil tastes >like >that, don't eat it. >Agreed, fresh-ground in a coffee-grinder it tasted good, but cannot be >paleo. >Without grinding, the seeds are said to pass through the body without >change, >and can be planted and grow. > >William > > >On 10 August, 2004 03:41, Jerry Story wrote: > Someone said flaxseed oil >> tastes like linseed oil. >> >> I
Article online, part of the 3rd issue of the new online tropical fruit magazine:
http://www.quisqualis.com/avoadpknight.html
PS suggest you read it ASAP, as the URL may be restricted to subscribers only in the near future. If the above does not work, try www.quisqualis.com, scroll down to online magazine, look for 3rd issue URL.
Japanese or Okinawan longevity is sometimes discussed by raw/vegan advocates. They claim that the diet is near-vegetarian and the longevity is due to eating so little animal protein.
The article below points out that longevity depends on many factors, but that the Japanese diet has shown increased longevity and increased animal protein consumption, in the same timespan.
"Everywhere you go these days, people are doing two things: getting fatter and dieting. One can only conclude that the more one diets, the fatter one gets."
TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) uses the herb yu xing cao, Latin name Houttuynia cordata, in raw form as an anti-tumor medicine.
The herb is available, fresh and raw, in some Chinese and Vietnamese stores here on the West coast of the US. [It is in stock right now in certain Oakland, California Chinatown food stores.]
this wheat grass business thing is such a reap off feeding on powerless peoples
. peoples will be better off , just cutting any growing wild grass and chewing them , they are often better tasting , free for the taking , and wild ( so mineralised properlly in opposition of crops grown in tilled and fertilised grounds ).
an interesting article from the current issue of "Harvard Magazine" that discusses America's dietary habits, including a short discussion of Wrangham's research indicating that humans are naturally adapted to a cooked food diet:
PS Some raw vegan advocates have attacked Wrangham's research -- even though it appears that they haven't even read the published journal articles! This intellectually dishonest practice is standard behavior for some raw vegan promoters, in particular the raw vegan pseudoscience fakes. (Many of the raw vegan pseudoscience promoters have no credentials or
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:39, Thomas E. Billings wrote: > an interesting article from the current issue of "Harvard Magazine" > that discusses America's dietary habits, including a short discussion > of Wrangham's research indicating that humans are naturally adapted to a > cooked food diet:
Fire has other uses than cooking. It could also be that the scientists are on the pervasive low fat diet, and therefore inclined to be obsessed with food.
Quote : "Wrangham takes an extreme position: he postulates that cooking food over fires began by about 1.6 million years ago, and was an innovation so important that it allowed the evolution of /Homo erectus" (...)/ "People who think that meat dominated the diet of early /Homo /may well be right," he says, "but they would have to have spent five hours a day just chewing. Raw meat is very hard to chew, and presumably raw /wild /meat is even harder."
On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 13:53, François Dovat wrote:
> Ah, it's very hard to chew and*presumably* wild meat is even harder ! > It's also not necessary to chew raw meat. I've tried bolting it. Digestion is still as quick and easy as with any raw meat. Ever seen a carnivore chewing?
Agree - I barely chew the raw meat and have no trouble with digestion whatsoever.
-=mark=-
william wrote: > On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 13:53, François Dovat wrote: > > >>Ah, it's very hard to chew and*presumably* wild meat is even harder ! >> > > It's also not necessary to chew raw meat. I've tried bolting it. > Digestion is still as quick and easy as with any raw meat. > Ever seen a carnivore chewing? > > William > . >
> > http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/050465.html <Cooking makes this possible by changing the brittleness of collagen fiber, softening it and making meat far easier to chew. "People who think that meat dominated the diet of early Homo may well be right," he says, "but they would have to have spent five hours a day just chewing. Raw meat is very hard to chew, and presumably raw wild meat is even harder>
Does anyone have any information about why so many health gurus failed to maintain health? Is it as simple as Zovluck says, they didn't close their eyes?
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 08:29:35 -0700, Thomas E. Billings <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >>http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002924 > > Does anyone have any information about why so many health gurus failed to > maintain health? Is it as simple as Zovluck says, they didn't close their > eyes? > > I very much doubt that closing the eyes has a great deal to do with it and that there are many other factors that are required to be considered,including genetics,stress,amount that they adhered or did not adhere to the very principles they espoused etc.
> I very much doubt that closing the eyes has a great deal to do with it an= > d > that there are many other factors that are required to be > considered,including genetics,stress,amount that they adhered or did not > adhere to the very principles they espoused etc.
also , life is a continuum and doesn't stop at death and don't limit itself to the individual , changing of form doen't makes you a failure ! stressing about it , is ..... the failure of living in the present.
>life is a continuum and doesn't stop at death and don't limit itself to the individual , changing of form doen't makes you a failure ! stressing about it , is ..... the failure of living in the present.<
I couldn't agree more. I don't view death at any age a failure because I don't believe that long life is necessarily success. I might include lack of suffering, but that's fear based on my part...... There are so many factors outside of our control. Surrender, Acceptance, lack of judgment, living in the present (as Jean-Claude so beautifully stated), exuding kindness
In my opinion: Viktoras' reply contains the usual doublespeak. He seems to be admitting that raw vegan is not working well for him. He has to take algae and enzymes (supplements and superfoods -- all highly processed industrial products) and yet success is still elusive for him. Despite this, he still defends raw diets! Some people never learn - especially when their income comes from promoting a deficient diet. Last time I saw Viktoras, he looked like "death warmed over" -- heavily wrinkled and dehydrated.
David Wolfe reports that typical raw vegan diets are deficient and often fail (he is critical of natural-hygiene-style diets), but that raw vegan diets with added supplements and (high priced) superfoods have a better chance of success:
Of course, if raw vegan diets are "most natural" then one would not expect to need supplements or superfoods on such diets. Wolfe is not alone in pushing supplements and superfoods - Viktoras, Cousens and Clement/ Hippocrates promote them, even Ann Wigmore if you count wheatgrass as a superfood.
I wonder how Wolfe is getting enough b12? He says he's getting it from spirulina, which scientists don't agree with. Is he taking b12 supplements, or cheating with animal products? He's been vegan long enough that the B12 definiciencies ought to be catching up.
