for a good collection of artciles on HIV and AIDS, see http://www.garynull.com/Documents/aids.htm On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jean-Louis Tu wrote: > I think Duesberg's position is not that the HIV virus doesn't exist, but > that AIDS is not caused by HIV. I am not qualified to comment on his > arguments (but apparently he hasn't convinced so many scientists). I > am wondering if he is seropositive himself; if not, would he agree to > be injected with HIV? According to Dr. Turner, a part of the Perth group at the Royal Perth Hospital in West Australia, the evidence for HIV does not exist. That doesn't mean it might not exist, but there is no proof tht the antibody tests indicate HIV infection. The Perth group has challenged the evidence for an HIV virus since it appeared in the 1980s because rigirous, scientific method required for proving the existence of a virus (which involves isolating a particle and then replicating it) has not been respected for HIV. Luke Montaigne, credited with being the discoverer of HIV, in an interview published in _Continuum Magazine_ acknowledges that when they looked in the speciman they did not see any virus particles and his published electron microscope photographs came from the culture, not from the purified material extracted and held up to be pure HIV. Without evidence of particles there can be no virus, no matter what else is found, Dr. Turner and the Perth group argues. Whereas they did find things in their cultures that are characteristic of retro viruses, they are not unique to retro viruses. A virus is a particle, not an unembodied piece of protein or RNA. If there is no evidence for the HIV virus, then the question is, when pathologists are testing individuals for viral load, what are they measuring? When testing for viral load, the first and most basic thing one needs to know is where the patient's speciman of DNA or RNA came from that is being used in the test. The test for viral load depends on matching a specimen of RNA or DNA that is mixed with a person's tissues to see if a match is made. The Perth Group argues that since the HIV viral particle has never been isolated, there is no way that the RNA that is used in viral load tests could have been extracted from an HIV viral particle. Consequently, since the origin of the RNA is unkonwn, one cannot claim to be measuring a viral load. Dr. Turner explains that HIV antibody tests use DNA or RNA that comes from the cultures but its exact genesis is unkown. RNA is souced from the so-called HIV. The RNA is selected on its chemical basis because it is thought that the RNA of a retro virus might be a particular size. Then they test this RNA against the patient and these patients have a certain quality of this RNA in their cells, depending on how it's done. Dr. Turner stresses that we do not know the biological significance of this match. He underscores the fact that there is no way one can say that the RNA used in HIV antibody testing comes from a viral particle. Lucia for a good collection of artciles on HIV and AIDS, see http://www.garynull.com/Documents/aids.htm