Ellie: You will find this covered in the lay version of the article on the Primal Psychotherapy Page at http://www.net-connect.net/~jspeyrer/ Peter: Maybe you could point me to the relevant passages? I could not find anything in your article covering this specific issue. You might want to reread the original technical version for evidence. Ellie: The validity of the toxic mind theory is in the scientific evidence put forth in the paper, and not in the success or failure of the various therapies. Peter: Spoken like a true idealist. :) But surely the fact that these "regressive" therapies that you so whole-heartedly are endorsing have not stood the test of time has some relevance - especially to the unsuspecting public who reads your article and gets inspired to invest hope, time and money into them but who instead of getting well risk ending up as disillusioned, therapy casualties who probably would have been better off not having entered the treacherous world of (psychodynamic) self-improvement in the first place. Sounds like some misdirected anger at therapists. Again the validity of the theory comes from the scientific evidence. I make it clear that this theory will help therapists do a better job if they study it. Ellie: Persons who have recovered from this endogenous toxicosis by means of experiential therapy, primal therapy, and self-help measures have been relieved of a variety of physical disorders and generally enjoy good health. Peter: Unfortunately, there is very little if any evidence to support such claims. Read all the tests done by Janov on post-primal people. There is tons of evidence and will be lots more if researchers correlate the theory with the already existing evidence. Cleared scientologists don't get colds. There aren't enough people yet who are post-primal too convince the unbelieving. Ellie: There are many reasons for the poor track record of various therapies. The most important, I think, is because therapists do not help the client redirect anger during the session. A person could be in primal therapy and have a primal but not direct anger toward early abusers. A successful primal that helps to relieve symptoms is one in which the person redirects anger toward early abusers. Peter: Primal therapy is very much about redirecting not only anger but also need and fear Yes, fear is a sign anger is trying to emerge and a good time to redirect it. In fact ten thousands of primal patients have spent hundreds of hours each venting and directing their childhood pains and frustrations towards these figures - in most cases with only sore throats and empty wallets to show for it. ;-) This is because they did not redirect the anger. Ellie