Right. I've heard of it. Got a buddy who swears by it. I don't know how "thermogenic" it really is; it supresses his appetite so much that he doesn't eat, so he loses weight. But what I was getting at is that it's not something that people following Neaderthin would even consider. When you wrote "I would stick with [the ECA stack]" I could see how a newbie might get confused and take that as an endorsement, especially one who hasn't actually read Neanderthin. That's all I meant. Take care, John Pavao ---------- If you want to raise body heat and heart rate with the intention of increasing the amount of calories used per hour, the standard stack is asprin/cafiene/ephedrine. Givin what Peat says his experience with coconut oil is, I assume that this is what he wants to accomplish with it. I don't use any thermogenics. I'm quite happy with the progress I'm making, and don't want to mess it up with too many supliments.