Hello all, I have not yet looked up Todd's reference, but I would like to offer a notion for your consideration. It may be nonsense. But I find it entertaining nonsense. I selected what I thought were the most compelling comments from yesterday's digest, and listed them: Paul: 1. meat with grain 2. most meat eaten by those with the money to afford all the hi-tech, highly processed foods 3. Red meat really may be a risk factor for colon cancer Muriel: 4. fighting & bleeding protected hunter-gatherers from iron overload and consequent increased risk of cancer John: #3 Then I considered what grains do. Sure, they have been demonstrated to downregulate natral killer cell activity in celiacs, but what do they do to the general population? A fellow who used to post to the celiac list indicated that recovering celiacs were at higher risk of developing hemochromatosis. But that doesn't address the question either. I'm sure you have all noticed that Tums, Rolaids, etc. advertise a lot, and seem to do a brisk business. Recent investigations are revealing that the indigestion that often gets temporary relief from these products is actually the result of underproduction of hydrochloric acid in the stomach. Well, that is one thing that grains do.... they interfere with acid production, by inciting excessive histamine production. This happens in celiacs. It probably happens in many of those people with the HLA factors associated with cd and other autoimmune diseases. In all untreated celiacs gall bladder function is impaired. This is not because of problems with the organ itself, but with CCK production in the duodenum. If lesser, but significant interference with CCK production in the duodenum occurs in the general population, then I think there is something worthy of note. Hydrocholoric acid is critical to the digestion of meat. In its absence, or reduced presence, I can well imagine that undigested particles of meat would pass from the stomach. Perhaps some dynamic of affinity in the colon, or perhaps even at the cecum, there is a tendency for this undigested meat to gather. All the hormones and other additives in this meat might remain trapped within this undigested meat sitting in the colon. That might provide an initiating factor for malignancy. In addition, bile from the gall bladder is necessary for emulsification of fats to form micells, so the fatty acids can be absorbed. Deficiencies of essential fatty acids, I believe, have been implicated in immune system abnormalities and malfunction. The net result may be the lodging of a carcinogen in the colon, and interference with the immune system. I could be a formula for colon cancer. And cereal grains could be causing the problem. As I said at the outset, this could all be nonsense. But I find it interesting to speculate about it. best wishes, Ron Hoggan