Stefan Joest <[log in to unmask]>: >Perhaps the cow makes milk for her calf and expresses her love for her >calf by that. But she obviously does n o t make milk to be stolen >by us humans... >She does not share her milk with us. She is forced to do so by us. Tom: But if the cow doesn't want us to take her milk, she could resist. That she doesn't resist, and in fact comes (freely) to the milking shed to be milked at the appropriate time, suggests that it is not theft. Additionally, the cow produces excess milk - more than is needed by the calf. In Ayurvedic dairies in India, the calf remains with the mother, and only her surplus milk - over and above that needed by the calf - is taken for human use. Stefan Joest <[log in to unmask]>: >If the degree of consciousness grows from plants to animals (and su- >posedly from animals lower in evolution to more higher species) why >should we lower our self-identity then? In the contrary it looks we >should strengthen it! Tom: I see your point - but it is a materialistic view. The spiritual view is that we should identify with the spirit within, not the body. And a diet of animals hinders us from that process. The spiritual view is that the true self is the spirit within, not the body. So, identifying with the spirit is true self-identification, and identifying with the body is not. The body lasts a few years, the spirit is immortal. Stefan Joest <[log in to unmask]>: >Most religious leaders introduced vegetarianism due to hygienical pro- >blems with meat... >The religious leaders missed the real point in my oppinion. Tom: I am aware that there are reasons to believe that the prohibiton of eating meat in some religions, may be due to some self-serving motives of the priest classes. However, the prohibition of meat can be argued on other spiritual grounds (i.e., minimizing killing, karma), so the "selfish priest class" argument is of questionable relevance (at least to some of us). Thanks for your comments! Regards, Tom Billings [log in to unmask]