Hey Om! FWIW, my loved one's flow has not disappeared, but only become light (a day or so, two at most. All negatives associated with menstruation were minimized early on (ie mood swinds, cramps, breast tenderness) and she wasn't all-raw for most of the time. She (and I) still notice a "change of energy" approaching menstruation, and during ovualtion as well. Just the ebb and flow of life, you know. The flow, as well as her general vaginal secretions, are varied over time in terms of texture, odor and taste--such that I would agree that menstruation is/can be a detox route. But when there is less to detox, there may be less flow, probably less odor. Who knows? The idea that such secretions would be completely odorless is a bit much to my mind. There are odors (and pheromones) associated with most mammalian sex. _Something_ is going on around ovulation and menstruation, and I, for one, and Melisa for another, enjoy it greatly! My understanding from the instinctos during our visit to France in 1988 is they then claimed the menstrual flow will stop after a few months of 100% instincto-therapy. Whether Melisa's flow does completely stop eventually (it _will_ of course) after a time of strictly 100% instincto (which for her is not all that likely to happen, especially if one considers mixing/extracts to be anethema to a healthy dietary regime--a "no no" for a strict instincto) is less important to us than a healthy ovulation, conception and pregnancy. Find below a scanned copy of a Xerox copy which Ward Nicholson shared with me on the subject. This may have been "re-published" in an earlier M2M issue as well. I don't know. In any case, the issue hasn't matured much since 1976 when this was published. It seems a fine summary of the issues from a vegan perspective. It seems serious vegans have been aware of the possible damage from fruitarian diets for decades. Hmmm... Ombodhi--I, too, await the latest from the European instinctos on the matter and hope they will post on your thread... Menstruation by Freya Dinshah (From the March/April 1976 issue of Ahimsa, published by The American Vegan Society.) Menstruation is the monthly shedding of the Lining of the uterus and is accompanied by the passage via the vagina, of non-clotting (due to the mixing of blood with slightly acid mucus from the walls of the vagina) bloody fluid. It is established in the age range of 12-15 years, and occurs in cycles of usually 25-32 days until the age of about 45 years. Each flow lasts from 3-7 days. Menstruation ceases with pregnancy and at menopause. The absence of menses may also result from changes elsewhere in the body, such as: a disturbance in the endocrinal glandular system; injury to the ovaries; severe malnutrition; the strain of travel, or emotional stress; lack of vitality due to illness; or during fasting. Adolescents in particular MAY experience irregularities and delays in the menstrual cycle. Menstruation--in the overly toxic--can also serve as a means of voiding bodily impurities. Consequently, as the body improves in health and vitality, the quantity of flow often will be reduced. Menstruation may also lessen in the summer months when, living an outdoor life, other eliminative organs are more actively working. It has been claimed that the women of some tribes that live outdoors and virtually naked (in tropical climates) do not have a menstrual flow. Dietary changes can also effect changes in the menstrual pattern. The elimination of animal-source foods, such as meat, eggs, and dairy foods; and a reduction or cessation of use of cooked and concentrated foods (cereals, legumes, seeds, etc.) will often result in a reduced flow. So too will the absence of sexual stimulation (whether physical or mental) in many cases. It is possible that the flow may cease entirely in a healthy woman, according to one viewpoint on the matter. But this cannot be taken as a sign of good health per se. It has been noted over the years, in our experience with women attempting to live naturally, that it is much more likely that the complete absence of menstruation is due to a cessation of ovulation (often accompanied by severe underweight, lack of vitality, and other unfavorable signs), signifying that the body is not functioning in the normal cycles. For most women, the regularity of menses is reassuring. In any case, it should not cause discomfort or physical distress; and a healthy woman should be able to continue with her normal activities (other than sexual indulgence, which should be avoided at this time, as well as during pregnancy and lactation). The adoption of a common-sense and well- balanced vegan way of life has helped many in overcoming physical and emotional problems connected with menstruation. We must state here a strong warning: The most noted writers on the concept of ALL menstruation being 'abnormal' have been MEN, not women; and they have generally been of a very esoteric, or mystic frame of mind. At least one writer was mainly concerned with theories of building a 'race of supermen,' and this untidy biological Process did not fit his notions of perfection. Some seem unclear as to where the physical plane of existence ends and the spiritual life begins. Usually, these theoreticians have recommended for others (but, alas, did not necessarily follow themselves!) an unbalanced diet of only fruit, supposedly leading to living on just air, as a so-called breatharian. It is not surprising that women attempting to live indefinitely on such 'thin soup' generally find that their periods cease. Many drop sharply in weight, even reaching an emaciated condition, suffering serious malnutrition. Continuing stubbornly on down this path most certainly CAN lead one to a 100% 'spiritual' condition, with the physical body left behind as an empty shell, or in plain words, a corpse! In such people, the absent menstruation is a sign that the body is incapable of bearing a child (indeed, pregnancy at such a time, even if possible, would likely pose a serious threat to the well-being of both mother and baby); that Nature has 'shut the factory down' to avoid any further drain of precious nutriment and vitality. Clearly, if this is the case, it is quite an opposite condition from the normal, vigorous state of health that is to be desired. Much confusion has come about through the contention of some well-meaning but misguided natural-living advocates who claim that all disease is brought about by an excess of mucus in the body. Even if this extravagant statement were true, it would still be necessary to differentiate between the normal AND VITALLY NECESSARY mucus--the thin, clear, watery secretion that lubricates and moisturizes such mucous membranes as the nasal passages (and the otherwise dry air that must pass through them to the lungs) and the vagina--and the thick, cloudy, pus-like material indicating various types of waste matter being passed out through the particular passage. We must emphasize: the first is perfectly normal, natural, and necessary to the Proper functioning of the body; whereas the second is of a more abnormal or pathological nature. This distinction must be borne in mind when people try to sell you on the advantages of a lop-sided 'mucusless' diet. Many factors have a bearing on the abnormal type of mucus-production; and food is but one of them. At any rate, if we realize this in regard to mucus, we may also easily understand that the normal, moderate, painless periodic flow from a healthy woman is a far cry from the hormonal imbalance, the cramps and pain, the temperamental quirks, the voiding of inordinate quantities of waste matter (as Nature utilizes any convenient method of cleaning house') so often experienced in the unnatural lives that people lead. One fair test of a good diet is that it be capable of supporting two or more generations in excellent health. A well-balanced vegan diet consisting of fresh fruits, large salads, vegetables, Sprouts, seeds, and some grains if desired, has proven superbly adequate in this respect. But a very skimpy and unbalanced diet can serve a legitimate limited purpose for a relatively brief time, as a 'cleansing diet,' a reducing diet, etc. The problem arises in confusing it with a diet adequate for FULL nutrition for an indefinite period of time. In the case of absent menstruation, every effort should be made to ensure that the body is in a state of good health. we cannot agree with the use of hormone shots that are prescribed to bring about the restoration of absent menstruation. Such shots are unnatural to the body and either synthetic or more usually of animal origin. In any event, they would simply be addressing one symptom of the problem, not any of the the underlying causes. When a proper balance of the conditions of life is supplied (well-balanced, common-sense natural vegan regimen, proper temperature, exercise, adequate rest and sleep, fresh air, sunshine, emotional poise and mental tranquility, etc.) the usual eventual result is a normalizing of bodily conditioning. The diet should be carefully examined with a good knowledge and a critical eye--not just the zeal of faddism--to determine that it is nutritionally balanced and adequate. If the absence of menstruation were a normal occurrence, it would be possible for ALL WOMEN to conceive, carry, bear, and nurse healthy babies with no menstrual flow occurring ether before or after the birth and suckling of the infants. Such cases would obviously be difficult to verify. Usually, however, women who have ceased to menstruate at some time have found the return of menstruation to be a prerequisite to con- ceiving a child. It is not difficult to realize how easily a woman could delude herself (as well as others) into thinking that conception had taken place with a complete absence of the normal monthly cycle. Let us say that a woman who is rundown and not having her periods, continues to have fairly regular sexual intercourse. It is not unusual for a childless couple to be 'trying too hard'--mating too often, and wearing themselves out--in a self-defeating desire for success in impregnation. But in this case, there is nothing being produced to be impregnated. Now, if despite this, such a woman does manage to begin to regain some of her lost health and vitality, there presumably will come a time when she will begin to ovulate and menstruate again. However, if the very first new ovulation results in pregnancy, she would not begin to menstruate again, at least till after the birth; possibly not for a long time afterwards, if the strain of motherhood and lactation were unduly great in her less-than-robust condition. Given such a circumstance (and it is based upon a composite of human experiences, not just esoteric theories or wishful thinking), it would surely be very difficult to convince such a 'true believer' regarding what had actually taken place in her own body! But we would be interested to receive personal case reports of vegan women in this regard. Confidentiality will, of course, be fully respected. As in this article, only matters of human experience or first-hand knowledge can be of real value; this is not a matter that should have to be 'taken on faith.' Actual experiences only please; not mere quota- tions or abstracts from purely theoretical or unduly esoteric sources. A further note of caution: In the event of absent menstruation due to mal- nutrition, enervation, etc., we can readily understand the anxiety of a couple who may very badly want to have children. But if the problem is corrected and conception appears possible, it does NOT seem the most prudent course to rush into parenthood at once. Certainly, if either parent is just returning to good health following a difficult time, it is the wisest course to wait a year or two, or even longer if practical, while BOTH prospective parents continue to build a strong, solid foundation of health and vitality for the wonderful time that is to come. If they are ARE now on the right road to recovery and more healthful living, the additional time for building health (as well as further knowledge of natural living methods) is likely to repay them with dividends of better health in the future for all concerned. And that is what this is really all about, is it not? Menstruation (Freya Dinshah) Page 2 Kirt Nieft / Melisa Secola