Burama, Thank you for the response and added clarification.

What I meant by Consensus is that both the governing and opposition parties have to agree on a certain idea or policy in order for it to be implemented. It is akin to what Hon. ATT used as a governance platform in Mali. Although he did not force opposition to agree with him, he coerced, sometimes brow-beat or induced them to agree with policy positions before he could move forward.

What obtains in America is that although President Obama won resoundingly in both elections, he included prominent Republicans in both cabinets. The opposition he experiences are not issue-oppositions, rather they are philosophical and religious oppositions. Therefore obscurantist and obstructionist. This is because a democratic government cannot afford to be hijacked by sectarian and obscurantist notions. So what obtains in America is NOT comparable to what obtains in Gambia or any part of Africa to my knowledge. The closest may be Uganda. (: It is not apparent that President Obama's government is frustrated by the opposition to the point of changing policy or legislation without their participation. I take it by century-old rules, you are referring to the change in senate RULES re. filibuster & debate. Rules are rules. They are established for a reason and can be ammended, changed, or scrapped when they become either obsolete or are being abused. Rules are different from legislation and policy implementation. The constitution does not prohibit changing RULES of the Senate or House at any time those bodies determine best. The Senate Rule on Filibuster was changed by the SENATE, not the Obama Executive. An administrative rule's age does not shield it from reform and change by the body who has the sole locus standi to reform or change it.

Burama, I understand that you think - We have NO WAY of removing Yahya. It is more like Burama has no way of removing Yahya. I acknowledge you invite anyone who knows of a way of removing Yahya to share the idea with you. I encourage those of our fellows to share such ideas with you. It is presumptuously defeatist (as Demba advises) to claim We have NO WAY of removing Yahya. You also follow that with -

"My position is we have no way of removing Yahya, however if we organize and mobilize effectively we can garner enough political leverage to force democratic reforms. I can't see any political leverage that will precondition his removal…….the reforms will lead to his removal and/or institutionalization of democratic governance.
If we have a political program to remove Yahya….am all for it. However no one has come with an actionable plan to do that. Instead my pronouncements are borderline wishful statements/hope."

This indicates to me that even as you are not aware of anyway to remove Yahya, you also discount your own suggestion of reforming Yahya via politically-leveraged democratic reforms!!! I think you must first reconcile your view of Yahya: Is he a criminal or an errant governor?

Thank you again Burama.

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 10:31 am
Subject: Re: Democracy or Dictatorship


Haruna

I did not fully comprehend your argument on majority rule vs consensus. Nevertheless, I was trying to relate what is currently happening in the American political discourse as may apply to Gambia. That is if the ruling party is frustrated by the opposition and resort to changing century old rules by rationalizing them obstructionists - I said, isn’t that what Yahya an most African dictators do/did. This is threatening democracy at its core.

On the subject of a democratic government (if that’s what you mean) before removing Yahya. This is not an absolute position of mind. My position is we have no way of removing Yahya, however if we organize and mobilize effectively we can garner enough political leverage to force democratic reforms. I can't see any political leverage that will precondition his removal…….the reforms will lead to his removal and/or institutionalization of democratic governance.

If we have a political program to remove Yahya….am all for it. However no one has come with an actionable plan to do that. Instead my pronouncements are borderline wishful statements/hope.

Burama
   
On Dec 3, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Haruna <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Demba and Burama,

While I am sympathetic to your two views: Majority Rule and Consensus Rule

It appears the two views are at loggerheads as is to be expected. Without commenting on what Democracy is at this time (my book, coming soon, DEMOCRATICA - A Lifestyle Synthesis shares a definition for democracy), the two views of Majority Rule and Consensus Rule provide a recipe for for impasse, acrimony, and obstructionism particularly among African polity.

For effective and efficient governance, there is a happy medium luckily. This happy medium is so because in elections, we cannot readily discern the motivations or desires of our fellows for governance. (I shy away from the word rule because it connotes tyranny). So after the "Majority" wins an election, they will still need a sizable majority of the minority for any meaningful and effective governance. It will therefore be imperative to not only include members from the minority in governance cabinets, it is crucial to constantly reach out to the minority for their participation in policy conferences and development. What I am sharing is the value of coalition-making around issues rather than belonging to particular political parties that vied in the election. It is to be expected that the victorious party will form the majority of office-holders but great effort must be made to include members of minority parties who share similar visions for the nation or community. When this is done, governance by coalitions around pertinent issues for the people becomes effortless.

Furthermore, and after elections, the people must always be encouraged to participate in their own governance. Decentralized policy meetings, debates, conferences, workshops, etc., will go a long way to achieving that goal.

I must share here that Burama's idea of having a prospective governance mechanism or government in place before we remove Yahya is both unproductive ad ill-advised. It will lead to political encampment and an air of elitism that will only invite counter-coups. That was what plagued for a long time, and continues to plague Nigeria and Liberia. One person's objections must never be allowed to scupper national governance either.

Thank you both for your indulgence.

Haruna.

-----Original Message-----
From: dbaldeh <[log in to unmask]>
To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 4:32 am
Subject: Re: Democracy or Dictatorship

Interesting Burama. So in your case here election of a president is meaningless. They cannot govern because the minority party does not like him or his policies.  

I tell you what is an obstruction. It is when an  idea can be passed into law by the  majority and one person block it. It is when your party come up with an idea, it is accepted by the opposing party and you now oppose it because you don't like the president. It is opposing things you supported when your party was in power and now you oppose.  

Democracy is about majority rule right.  Then let the winner of the elections govern.

Thanks
Demba


From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



-------- Original message --------
From: Burama FL Jammeh <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 12/02/2013 3:27 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [G_L] Democracy or Dictatorship


Active National Assembly/'Obstructionists' National Assembly vs Rubber Stamping National Assembly!

The excuse and political low blow in America today. When a politician did not get his/her way, s/he blamed the other as obstructionist....as if that person is not elected representative of the people

No wonder African leaders such as Yahya Jammeh, override our representatives and/or ask them to stamp his will at will, where there exist no functioning institutions of democracy.

Where America's political class is everyday looking for ways to by-pass democratic checks.....one should be very suspicious of anybody in or vying for power.

It appear when people assume power they ran out of sanity before their back hit the backrest of the chair.

As Senator Obama argued vehemently Republican treat to do-away with 225 year Senate Super Majority Rule (60 votes) used for many confirmations and legislature. Two weeks ago his party did just that for judicial confirmations (excluding supreme court) with his endorsement........they claimed because Republican legislature are obstructionists.

Amazing to see Obama, Baden, Hilary, Pelosi and Reid on video in 2006/7 arguing against what they supported toady. Uncheck power mixed with human nature is toxic

I have no reason to root for either party......but this time the party in power has thrown a fundamental (voice of the minority) of democracy under the bus.

Some of these actions of man made me reason we should not put our struggle on the back of any one person.....The end result of such effort will produce another tyranny.

The answer is the majority of our people has to have a requisite capacity to live a life of democracy. Some of these changes are possible in today's America because such human capacity is low mainly through complacency of citizens.

My thoughts!

Burama

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