Sorry Galleh I did not receive this response of yours. It is significant as to definitions and value so I'll share some ideas on it:
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Fri, 3 Feb 2012 20:18:25 -0800 |
Great response Haruna. Thanks a lot. I would beg to differ, however, on your characterization of the Mouride and the Niassene as cults. Of course, we can choose to call them what we want depending on our particular orientations;
and I fully respect your right to so call them if you wish.] Galleh.
Yes Galleh thank you for the acknowledgement and consideration.
Generally, and in more public discourse, I avoid injecting my personal orientation and desire when the matter at hand has some educative and or informative value. Most English dictionaries define Cult as "a system of religious worship particularly when the worship is conducted in ritual, a devotion or homage to person or thing". It follows then that all organized religions of the world - Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Mormonism, Bahai, etcetera and their various permutations are therefore cults. I agree with the English dictionary's definition of CULT that is why I describe all organized religion as occult. The meaning of English words morph as time and traditions march on and dictionaries are often adapted to reflect this dynamism. When meaning of a word changes fundamentally as in the case of cult, for example if a religion or any of its permutations changes tradition fundamentally, the adaptation is completed by changing the word used to describe the new regime. Organized religions generally view the word cult with some disdain and trepidation but because this is exactly how they all began and continue to operate, there is no escaping the word. To get around the stain, you will see some organized religions brand other religions as cults in order to manufacture some sanctity for their own but that doesn't hold much water for the English language. This is because language is a tool for expression and is not biased as to tradition. If I were speaking Mandingo, I would call organized relion Aadolu. What I share is that the word itself is not pejorative. It is in what the word describes that we can infer a pejorative and that we can only accomplish by the context surrounding the word or the sum total of activity that warrants the use of the word.
[However, in my humble opinion, both the Mouride and the Niassene are of larger religious geneologies that do not fit the cult characterization,] Galleh.
I see. However, and as you admit, the Mouride and Niassene traditions are offshoots of in your words - Larger religious genealogies. Genealogy only describes regime of propagation. I take it therefore that Mouridism and Niasseny are both derivative of another organized religion.
[namely, the Sufi and Tijaniyya Ways respectively, which in turn, are part of the larger Islam as paradigm.] Galleh.
Galleh I will share here that I adore conversation with you for you enlarge discussion for vitality and you bend over backwards sometimes just to be comprehensively nice. There's much to be said for such benign despensation. When I become Secretary general of the UN, I will make you my special envoy to Senegal. You shared here that Sufism and Tijaniyya silos (ways) are paths of some larger Silo (way - Islam), and that the larger way is a Paradigm, a regime or pattern of expression, if you will. A cult is a paradigm, and the Tijaniyya and Sufi ways originated from a singular person. The two ways are replete with ritual as manner of expressing devotion, and they both carry the actual names of their founders.
[To my mind a cult stands alone and is a complete unit unto itself; similar perhaps, but essentially different from other cults.] Galleh.
Galleh, this is what I mean by your self-deprecating humility. If you say a cult stands alone you do not share its constitution. In other words, a group of people gathered for prayer at the mosque stands alone from another group of people who gather for prayer in a church. The two are however groups of people. It is the manner of prayer that Cult connotes. The reason why you admit some similarity between the cults that "stand alone" and those cults that may not stand alone is because you are restricted by the meaning of the word cult. I will offer you an opportunity to found a new English word that describes those CULTS that are capable of standing alone as opposed to those that are not Galleh.
[Both the Mouride and Niassene are inextricably embedded within larger religious formations that in turn are embedded within Islam.] Galleh.
Yes Galleh. And because I am only curious, what are some of the other cults that are different from Mouridism and Niasseny as to warrant the name cult?
[For this reason, I would not call them cults.] Galleh.
I understand Galleh.
[But again, this is just me disagreeing with you on this point.] Galleh
I understand and I appreciate the divergence. Some day when I meet with you Galleh, I will query you on BabaSilo. Now that is NOT a CULT. Because it is not an organized religion.
[You have a good night too!!
Cheers, Baba] Galleh.
Aye Aye Galleh. Thank you for the conversation in cults. I look forward to greater education.