The ramble is extremely valuable, appropriate, and visionary. And I read every word of it. Ginny I'll give you a hint: Your fair review of all political parties and their leaders of Gambia IS NOT WHAT BRINGS OUT THE DAGGERS. I just want you to know that. Some time just after the nadd dissolution and UDP/NRP's withdrawal from the gaucherie, The GDP had invited UDP and NRP officials in order to fashion a reconvening of minds around some coalescing of forces. You were kind enough to grace a meeting of Hon. Hamat Bah. You spoke gloriously of him and he spoke admirably of you both here and in Gambia. On your blog, there is publication dedicated to Hamat, the Man. So in life's mirages, and being an enhanced human being, you will not understand why you solicit venom from some corners, even as you give praise to their dear leader. The mentality and level of development is such that not only is disagreement a harbinger of derision and contemptuous libel, but so is the commendation and "praise" of phantom enemies. I hope this keeps things in better perspective for you. I am concerned that you will blame yourself for your good self. And it has nothing (virtually nothing) to do with Ginny. What it risks doing is intimidating you to a point where you recede in human terms to meet your detractors at the lower ebb of life. I advise you stay true north. And enjoy life with your trademark considerations. Haruna. In a message dated 4/16/2009 10:21:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: I wasn't necessarily saying that anyone said, word for word, that Halifa Sallah wasn't human. And wasn't prone to mistakes. I merely pointed that fact out, as an aside, because every time Halifa Sallah is discussed, and/or criticized in anyway, the claws come out. And I mean every time! I almost guarantee you that if you scream Halifa Sallah on a crowded list, it's bound to evoke some kinda response. And I also think that some of his supporters idolize him, put him on a pedestal, darn near worship him, and anyone can disagree with me on this point if you want, however, from what I've seen, anyone who criticizes him (rightly or wrongly), gets all kinds of stuff flung at them, and we get the same old tired lecture of how great he is for The Gambia, and how much he's done for the Gambian people. Which may or may not be true, that's not even the point I'm addressing. However, the unspoken rule seems to be that criticism of Halifa Sallah is off limits. Now this may, or may not, be true. Maybe he has, or can't do anything wrong. Maybe the criticism has taken place off list. I don't know. I'll say (once again as this seems to be getting lost in the shuffle), that I commend Halifa Sallah for speaking out and doing what he could to get at the truth of what actually took place. And I think that questioning his motives, just for the sake of questioning them, without any proof to substantiate any of the claims made in questioning his motives, is wrong and is over the top. OK? Now, if anyone has any substantiated claims that Sallah was acting in his own self-interest, or for his own political gains, let's post hard facts here, and not just mere speculation and inuendo. Let's not disagree with Halifa Sallah just for the sake of disagreeing with him. I have wondered, though, why Halifa Sallah and the PDOIS party has failed to gain traction with the Gambian people. And when I've asked this question, the inference I get is that the Gambian people, by and large, are not politically mature enough, not educated enough, and are too tribalistic in their mindset, to choose what's best for them (read Sallah). Now, if one thinks so low of the people they supposedly are trying to fight for, the people you supposedly want to have freedom, democracy, the rule of law, etc., doesn't that mean that they should be allowed to support the candidate of their choosing? Even if it's not Sallah? Is Sallah (and the other opposition politicians as well) fighting for the Gambian people, or are they fighting for their own political gains? And if Sallah is so different than the other opposition politicians, how so? What has he done that say, Darboe (a human rights lawyer mind you) hasn't? Sallah might be the best thing for The Gambia (I'll steer away from the "sliced bread" comparison as it might offend some), however, the hard fact is that the majority of Gambians do *not* support him! Now, how can you get support from people when you infer (or right out say) that the constituency that you're asking to vote for you is too stupid and uneducated to do so? Now Sallah may not have said this himself, but I've heard/seen it from his supporters enough... And I'd personally not support someone who insults my intelligence or thinks me stupid. It seems that all of the opposition leaders' supporters aren't that much different than Jammeh's supporters. You criticize their leaders, the claws will come out, you'll get called all kinds of names, and be asked to prove (with supporting messages, footnotes, and documentation) every letter, word, sentence, that you utter. And in the process of the back-and-forth, we lose sight of what the actual goal is. Perhaps if we remember what the ultimate goal is, which is to restore democracy and the rule of law to The Gambia (or at least that's what I thought it was), then we can put our differences aside to achieve that goal and then worry about the back and forth bickering later. However, it seems that you have a group of people who would rather have Jammeh in power, than to see anyone else butHalifa Sallah as the next President of The Gambia. All of the opposition leaders, imho, have done something, in their own way, to challenge the current regime in power. They'd not be opposition leaders if they had not done something... Maybe it wasn't exactly what Sallah was or is doing, but if it's not, does it mean that how they choose to stand up to the dictatorship is necessarily "wrong", or that because they're not acting as PDOIS/Sallah woudl act, that that makes them power hungry, selfish, etc.? And this is why we can't unite! Because some do not have respect for the parties they don't agree with, they've put Sallah way up here, and the rest of the opposition leaders way down here. And will come on the list and say they want a united opposition no matter what, while trashing some of the opposition candidates. I'm going to use American politics as an example again (and my apologies as this seems to offend some too), but do you think Obama would have gotten elected if he trashed Hillary and her supporters after he'd won the primary? Or, vice versa, i.e., what if Hillary and/or her supporters had continued trashing Obama after he'd won, and the democratic party had remained divided? What I'm trying to say is that for the most part, even Democrats and Independents, for that matter, rallied around Obama even if they didn't necessarily agree with him, in order to get rid of Bush and not allow McCain to get elected. They were able to put their smaller differences aside and focus on the bigger goal of ousting the Republicans from the White House as well as from many seats in Congress. Now, if people can't even do that here on this list, when we're supposedly dealing with mature and educated people, how do we expect the leaders to be able to do it? And even if the leaders were able to come together, what about their supporters? You've got one person rehashing an event that happened in 1996, per Darboe, and another person questioning the supposed ulterior motives of a guy who, for whatever reason, put his life on the line for asking questions... i.e. Sallah... And this is just a waste of time and we're losing site of the big picture here! My nuanced view, that many either missed or chose to only focus on the critical of Sallah parts, is that Sallah stood up and spoke out *more*, hear me? I said *more than* any of the other leaders that we knew of! I was commending him for this. However, based not only on this current conversation but past exchanges regarding Sallah, criticism of him is not tolerated, even if it may be warranted! I also said that Sallah has done a lot in educating the people in electoral matters (and that was missed too), however, the fact still remains that PDOIS is still a small party in The Gambia. And the fact also is that many say that he and PDOIS urged people to support an admittedly flawed Constitution, the reason being that a flawed Constitution coudl be changed later and it was better than no Constitution at all. However, that's pretty much water under the bridge (just as Darboe's seeking refuge with the Senegalese embassy should also be water under the bridge), because even if we would have had a perfect Constitution, Jammeh has all but ruined it, and if the Freedom Newspaper *shudder* is accurate, Jammeh's fixing to *oops, there's the Tennessee coming out* put up a bill making The Gambia a one-party state. What will the opposition do then? Where will the endless quoting of the Constitution get anyone then? You see, many times I tend to have a pretty nuanced opinion about things. And many I think, missed that. Anyway... this old argument regarding Sallah/the opposition, in general, is an old and tired one, and I'm sorry that I wasted my time, and others' time, getting involved in it. Although the emotional quips of "going back to Clarksville and telling the hibbies" along with my supposedly thinking my opinions superior to others (but they were didn't ya know? 'cause I'm educated and all that) have kept me laughing all day... And such an emotional reaction from presumably PDOIS/Sallah supporters have proven my point, that any kind of disagreement, or even mere suggestion that perhaps something else different should be tried, can't be tolerated, unless of course, the great and wonderful Sallah says it should be so... And Maybe Sallah is a great and wonderful leader, and I'm just not seeing it. I've just not been the type to put people on pedestals. Even Obama, who I think, for the most part, is doing good for this country, I don't always agree with. Anyway, I've rambled on long enough... Ginny On 4/16/09, Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Ginny, > > Where in the responses of those who are challenging the misinformation about > Halifa's intentions or anything else that is said about him for that matter, > have you read where any of us have even suggested that Halifa is not human > and does not make mistakes? > Jabou Joh > > But last I checked, he was human just like the rest of us, he's not perfect, > and just like the other opposition leaders (who by being opposition leaders > and human rights lawyers, etc., have also put their lives on the line for > The Gambia), have also made mistakes. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ginny Quick <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:01 am > Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next? > > > > You know, I could care less *why* Halifa did what he did! If others want to > question his motives than go right ahead... However, the fact of the matter > remains that he went on a fact-finding mission regarding the "witch-hunts", > was arrested for it, and had charges brought against him! Where were the > other politicians while all of this was going on? He was the most outspoken > out of all of the opposition politicians. > > > > Having said that, though, just like the Republicans and Democrats in this > country can't do anything right in the other's eyes, so goes with the > various opposition parties (and their supporters) in The Gambia. If it had > been Ousainou Darbo or someone else, then someone would probably be coming > along and questioning Ousainou's motives > too. > > > > I don't think that anyone in PDOIS is any more or less prone to hero worship > than a supporter from any other party, but I've always detected a hint of, I > can't find the right word for it, but a hint of defensiveness and and a > sorta cult-like hero-worship where Halifa is concerned, though this > definitely doesn't hold true for every PDOIS supporter. And Halifa is > human, prone to error, just like anyone else, though if you listen to some > people talk, he's the best thing since sliced bread, and if you don't > support him, then there's something wrong with you, you're stupid, > uneducated, or any number of invectives. > > > > Notwithstanding all of this, at least in the most recent case of > witch-hunting, no matter why Halifa did what he did, he did it! And if > anyone wants to question Halifa's motives for doing so, I'd like a little > more than speculation, i.e., direct quotes, hard evidence, etc., for > example, to sit there and say "if Halifa knew he'd be arrested, he'd not > have done what he did". Which doesn't make sense to me because if memory > serves me, Halifa has been detained before, so surely he knew that his > actions could well land him in detention of some sort. > > > > Anyway, I've only read through some of the posts as the back-and-forth was > giving me a headache. And it's just the same old "Halifa is selfish/thinks > we're stupid/whatever" meme against Halifa, and the "Halifa is great and > wonderful and how dare you question him/we all k > now what you're trying to do/you're trying to tarnish the image of the most > courageous Gambian to ever walk the face of the earth/what you're saying > about Halifa is patently untrue", on the other side. > > > > And from my vantage point, the true is probably somewhere in the middle of > those two extremes. Halifa hs done much to educate Gambians, has done much > to empower them electorally, and he has put his life on the line to stand up > for Gambians. But last I checked, he was human just like the rest of us, > he's not perfect, and just like the other opposition leaders (who by being > opposition leaders and human rights lawyers, etc., have also put their lives > on the line for The Gambia), have also made mistakes. > > > > Ginny > > > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L > Web interface > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask] > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. 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