John,

I am amazed that there are some, like you and David, that can find the time and are willing to go to the mat for more altruistic reasons than selling product.   There is also a difference between some that sell a product and really believe in it, and those that are lobbying for a product that they know can only survive in the market through lobby and the threat of litigation.  I also, know quite a few like yourself that have given up, because of the cost to benefit reward.  As for NPS Brief # 2 with Mack, Speweik, Grimmer and previously Tiller and Askins, I would take that sort of industry cross section any day over some of the ASTM groups.   Do you think most of the ASTM teams are without conflict of interest issues?   Thank you for your generous time and efforts in your volunteer efforts for the bettering of our field.

Best,

Leland

 

From: The listserv where the buildings do the talking [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Walsh
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] FW: ASTM standards on building preservation

 

David,

I have opinions on ASTM guides as opposed to methods and specifications that I don’t have time to get into.  However, I think the end users don’t really understand what goes into the process.  First of all, nobody pays me to contribute to ASTM and I don’t manufacture anything.  In fact, I pay ASTM to volunteer just as you do David.  ASTM standards do not only come into play after failure.  Does anyone have any idea how much effort is put into printing ASTM C150 Type I on a bag of portland cement?  Contractors should be happy that someone is performing QA/QC before the skids show up at the jobsite.  Now I know I’m setting myself up for all the anecdotes about bad materials that supposedly pass specification.  I don’t pretend the process is perfect.  So be it.

 

As for the NPS briefs and corporate bullying Leland, take a look at the second author on NPS Brief No. 2.

 

John

 


From: The listserv where the buildings do the talking [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David West
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [BP] FW: ASTM standards on building preservation

 

I posted the following email on the AIC – ASG (American Institute for Conservation – Architecture Specialty Group) email forum the other day, and thought it would be useful to get some feedback from the much wider cross-section of the preservation community represented on BP.  Initial feedback from ASG has been limited, but what I have received suggests that these documents are not widely utilised at this time.  I wonder whether this is due to a lack of awareness, disagreement with content, or the cost of acquisition.

 

 

As a member of both ASTM C18 on Dimension Stone (and Subcommittee C18.07 on Environmental Properties, Behaviour and Cleaning) and ASTM E06 on Performance of Buildings (and Subcommittee E06.24 on Building Preservation and Rehabilitation Technology), I was wondering how many members of ASG are aware of and/or use the following ASTM Standard Guides. 

 

I’d also be interested in feedback on the adequacy or merit of each of the documents … and if that means separate strands for each of the guides, then I’m happy to ask the questions again individually !!!  And I know that there are at least a couple of other ASG members on E06.24, although I don’t think there are any other ASG members on C18.07 (delighted to be proven wrong).

 

Subcommittee C18.07

C1496-01 Standard Guide for Assessment and Maintenance of Exterior Dimension Stone Masonry Walls and Facades

Status: Overdue
WK21627 (Technical Contact: Bryan Imhoff) Ballot C18 (09-01) Item 014;

C1515-01 Standard Guide for Cleaning of Exterior Dimension Stone, Vertical And Horizontal Surfaces, New or Existing

Status: Overdue
See WK14357 (Technical Contact: Matthew Redabaugh)
WK21628 (Technical Contact: Bryan Imhoff) Ballot C18 (09-01) Item 015;

 

WK69 Guide for Repair and Restoration of Dimension Stone (Technical Contact: Bryan Imhoff)

Status: Subcommittee Ballot draft

Subcommittee E06.24

E1857-97(2004) Standard Guide for Selection of Cleaning Techniques for Masonry, Concrete, and Stucco Surfaces

Status: Ballot Action Required

E2167-01(2008) Standard Guide for Selection and Use of Stone Consolidants

Status: Current
WK20300 (Technical Contact: Alan Winterfeldt)

E2260-03 Standard Guide for Repointing (Tuckpointing) Historic Masonry

Status: Overdue
WK20301 (Technical Contact: Alan Winterfeldt) Ballot E06 (08-02) Item 006;

 

Note that unfortunately, the hyperlinks don’t work.  You can, however, go to the ASTM website www.astm.org where you will be able to access the scope statements for each of these documents (except perhaps WK69).

 

Regards

 

David West

Executive Director

internationalconservationservices

53 Victoria Avenue

Chatswood   NSW   2067

Australia

T:     +61 (2) 9417 3311

F:     +61 (2) 9417 3102

M:    +61 (411) 692 696

E:     [log in to unmask]

W:    www.icssydney.com

conservation&managementofculturalmaterial

 

-- To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html *Please vote for ICORS every 24 hours* http://www.lsoft.com/news/choicevote.asp -- To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html *Please vote for ICORS every 24 hours* http://www.lsoft.com/news/choicevote.asp

-- To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html *Please vote for ICORS every 24 hours* http://www.lsoft.com/news/choicevote.asp