Steve, Yeah I plan to do it hands on, just wanted to see what is out there. Am beginning to think its hopeless. I dont want to use my computer for this. LOL *---* *---* *---* *---* *---* Law of Biomechanics: The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach. Robert & Dreamer Doll ke7nwn Newport, Oregon N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup [log in to unmask] http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/