There are 9 messages totalling 754 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. None of the Above (2)
2. eroded limestone question (7)
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 09:10:32 -0400
From: "Brian Robinson (CONTRACT)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: None of the Above
Jim,
That is an interesting concept, the subcontracting method..
Regarding my own business experience, I had to run through dozens of employees
before I was able to put together a crew that was sober, had individual
initative, could make their pay stretch between checks and did not attempt to
kill each other at some point during the day.
My dad's side of the family are almost all union carpenters and I apprenticed
with Atlanta Carpenters Union Local 225 after grad school. My great uncle, who
was my first site superintendent and my second cousin our foreman taught me that
you had to identify and send the losers back to the hall ASAP in order to keep
your family fed and sanity on the site. After a couple of years, I finally got
to the point where if I watched 100 carpenters work for one day, just by
observing attitude, work habits, and body language I could weed out the bottom
10% without much difficulty and little error.
The Smart Assed College Boy,
B
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:28:54 -0400
From: Jim Hicks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: None of the Above
On 7/28/07 9:10 AM, "Brian Robinson (CONTRACT)" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> That is an interesting concept, the subcontracting method..
>
> Regarding my own business experience, I had to run through dozens of employees
> before I was able to put together a crew that was sober, had individual
> initative, could make their pay stretch between checks and did not attempt to
> kill each other at some point during the day.
>
> My dad's side of the family are almost all union carpenters and I apprenticed
> with Atlanta Carpenters Union Local 225 after grad school. My great uncle, who
> was my first site superintendent and my second cousin our foreman taught me
> that you had to identify and send the losers back to the hall ASAP in order to
> keep your family fed and sanity on the site. After a couple of years, I
> finally got to the point where if I watched 100 carpenters work for one day,
> just by observing attitude, work habits, and body language I could weed out
> the bottom 10% without much difficulty and little error.
>
> The Smart Assed College Boy,
>
> B
>
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>
I'm the 1st generation journeyman so you can get a better story from my son
who has worked for me, off & on, for the last 12 yrs (6 in Memphis not for
me) so I spent the 1st 10 yrs 'on the bench' only later hiring people t
work. An aside - Mack the Knife in 3 penny opera has the query "what is
killing someone next to hiring them" he has a point.
Anyway I've had to make the trans from treating 'them' the way I wanted to
be treated to how they needed to be treated - they aren't an extension of
me.
I've worked a lot with Russians and it has been a challenge to manage
someone raised in the Soviet system (you pretend to pay us and we pretend to
work).
Yeah, subcontracting to your employees can be a little tricky but where it
works, it works. And it's just that much less you have to pay attention to.
Another thing I've been doing as of late (nothing to do with help) is
telling a prospective customer I have no idea how much its going to cost
without doing a "probe" which will cost this much & then I can give a price.
Works about 25% of the time.
Jim
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:12:18 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: eroded limestone question
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I was looking at the twin-towered Majestic this morning - the 1931 building
erected by Irwin Chanin, across the street from the Dakota. Unlike the
cast-stone lower floors of its very-near-relation the Century, at 62nd, the
Majestic's are of limestone.
It has an unusual appearance, and I am not certain I have seen it on any
other building in New York. There are very fine, irregular erosion troughs,
just
lines really, all longitudinal, kind of like rain drops smearing across the
porthole of your 300 mph jet liner. They are not like beach stuff or wave
action, like I see in other stone installations.
The lines are all parallel to the sidewalk, so they were installed with a
knowledge of the actual graining.
Have I described this adequately? Kind of like someone took a very irregular
comb across the surface, although they are clearl eroded, not mechanically
made. But I cannot imagine what the character or method of the original deposit
was to subsequently allow this lines. This pattern appears on 9 out of 10 of
the perhaps 300 blocks (typicall 4" deep, and perhaps 4 feet on a side). What
are they?
Christopher
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<DIV>I was looking at the twin-towered Majestic this morning - the 1931 buil=
ding erected by Irwin Chanin, across the street from the Dakota. Unlik=
e the cast-stone lower floors of its very-near-relation the Century, at=
62nd, the Majestic's are of limestone.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It has an unusual appearance, and I am not certain I have seen it on an=
y other building in New York. There are very fine, irregular eros=
ion troughs, just lines really, all longitudinal, kind of like rain drops sm=
earing across the porthole of your 300 mph jet liner. They are n=
ot like beach stuff or wave action, like I see in other stone installations.=
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The lines are all parallel to the sidewalk, so they were installed with=
a knowledge of the actual graining. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have I described this adequately? Kind of like someone took a ver=
y irregular comb across the surface, although they are clearl eroded, not me=
chanically made. But I cannot imagine what the character or method of=20=
the original deposit was to subsequently allow this lines. This pattern=
appears on 9 out of 10 of the perhaps 300 blocks (typicall 4" deep, and per=
haps 4 feet on a side). What are they?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Christopher </DIV><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=3D"color: black; f=
ont: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get a sne=
ak peek of the all-new <A title=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tou=
r/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" href=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom=
30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" target=3D"_blank">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></=
DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:33:27 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: eroded limestone question
-------------------------------1185644007
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In a message dated 7/28/2007 12:12:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Have I described this adequately? Kind of like someone took a very
irregular comb across the surface, although they are clearl eroded, not
mechanically
made. But I cannot imagine what the character or method of the original
deposit was to subsequently allow this lines. This pattern appears on 9 out of
10
of the perhaps 300 blocks (typicall 4" deep, and perhaps 4 feet on a side).
What are they?
Sounds to me (note caveat, for which our stone experts will flay me) like
some sort of weak (coral poop?) or otherwise poorly-consolidated strata in the
stone , which may or may not have been apparent at the time of quarrying
and/or erection.
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/28/2007 12:12:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
<DIV>Have I described this adequately? Kind of like someone took a v=
ery=20
irregular comb across the surface, although they are clearl eroded, not=20
mechanically made. But I cannot imagine what the character or method=
of=20
the original deposit was to subsequently allow this lines. This patte=
rn=20
appears on 9 out of 10 of the perhaps 300 blocks (typicall 4" deep, and=20
perhaps 4 feet on a side). What are they?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Sounds to me (note caveat, for which our stone experts will flay me) li=
ke=20
some sort of weak (coral poop?) or otherwise poorly-consolidated=20
strata in the stone , which may or may not have been apparent at t=
he=20
time of quarrying and/or erection.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph </DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=
=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-T=
OP: 10px">Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=3D"http://discover.aol.co=
m/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" href=3D"http://discover.a=
ol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" target=3D"_blank">AO=
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:21:57 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: eroded limestone question
-------------------------------1185654117
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In a message dated 7/28/2007 1:33:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Sounds to me (note caveat, for which our stone experts will flay me) like
some sort of weak (coral poop?) or otherwise poorly-consolidated strata in the
stone , which may or may not have been apparent at the time of quarrying and/or
erection.
Kind of funny that the may-not-have-been-apparent-at-the-time-of-erection
striations are 90-95% in one direction.
Probably just a coincidence. Like the fourth gunshot from the grassy knoll.
yrs Exner
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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/28/2007 1:33:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RLWALTR@=
AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sounds to me (note caveat, for which=20=
our stone experts will flay me) like some sort of weak (coral poop?) or=
otherwise poorly-consolidated strata in the stone , which may or=20=
may not have been apparent at the time of quarrying and/or erection.</F=
ONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Kind of funny that the may-not-have-been-apparent-at-the-time-of-erecti=
on striations are 90-95% in one direction.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Probably just a coincidence. Like the fourth gunshot from t=
he grassy knoll.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>yrs Exner </DIV><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=3D"color: black; font: nor=
mal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get a sneak peek=20=
of the all-new <A title=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=
=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" href=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/=
?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" target=3D"_blank">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV></B=
ODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:33:46 -0400
From: Rudy Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: eroded limestone question
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>Kind of funny that the =
may-not-have-been-apparent-at-the-time-of-erection striations are 90-95% =
in one direction.<
I'm not so sure this is as casual as you might think. Speaking as a =
woodworker, with a wee bit 'o speriance in stoned, I would bet that the =
bedding plane of the stone was well considered even if the erosion =
consistancy wasn't well predicted. I can usually predict which piece of =
timber will "unwind" and in which direction with a resonable degree of =
certainty. It's an important aspect of my trade.
This goes directly to the fracas that erupted at the recent ITES in =
Sweden when the well papered speaker from Malta explained that the =
program they were developing would require someone with a college degree =
in preservation be who decides how masonry restoration was to be done to =
the point of stating that the very selection of materials and =
methodology of installation would be specified by the academics and then =
"carried out" by the masonry crew "under supervision". The reaction from =
the trades people present was wonderful to participate in.
Knowledge of materials is indeed something that is part of the =
responsibilty of the bohunk.
Wudy
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>>Kind of funny that the=20
may-not-have-been-apparent-at-the-time-of-erection striations are =
90-95% in=20
one direction.<</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not so sure this is as casual as you might think. Speaking as a =
woodworker, with a wee bit 'o speriance in stoned, I would bet that the =
bedding=20
plane of the stone was well considered even if the =
erosion consistancy=20
wasn't well predicted. I can usually predict which piece of timber will =
"unwind"=20
and in which direction with a resonable degree of certainty. It's an =
important=20
aspect of my trade.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This goes directly to the fracas that erupted at the recent ITES in =
Sweden=20
when the well papered speaker from Malta explained that the program they =
were=20
developing would require someone with a college degree in preservation =
be who=20
decides how masonry restoration was to be done to the point of stating =
that the=20
very selection of materials and methodology of installation would be =
specified=20
by the academics and then "carried out" by the masonry crew "under=20
supervision". The reaction from the trades people present was wonderful =
to=20
participate in.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Knowledge of materials is indeed something that is part of the=20
responsibilty of the bohunk.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wudy</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:21:20 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: eroded limestone question
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In a message dated 7/28/2007 8:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Knowledge of materials is indeed something that is part of the responsibilty
of the bohunk.
Wudy
I would argue that we're all responsible for knowledge of materials.
Ralph
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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/28/2007 8:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rudad@PL=
ANEXUS.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Knowledge of materials is indeed something=20=
that is part of the responsibilty of the bohunk.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wudy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>I would argue that we're all responsible for knowledge of materials.</D=
IV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=3D"color: black; font: normal 1=
0pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get a sneak peek of th=
e all-new <A title=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOL=
AOF00020000000982" href=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=
=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" target=3D"_blank">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY><=
/HTML>
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:51:43 -0400
From: Rudy Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: eroded limestone question
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You are right Ralph
Glad to be included,
Rudy
----- Original Message -----=20
From: [log in to unmask]=20
To: [log in to unmask]=20
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [BP] eroded limestone question
In a message dated 7/28/2007 8:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Knowledge of materials is indeed something that is part of the =
responsibilty of the bohunk.
Wudy
I would argue that we're all responsible for knowledge of materials.
Ralph
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
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<DIV>You are right Ralph</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Glad to be included,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rudy</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=[log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=[log in to unmask]=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINHEAD=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 28, 2007 =
9:21=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP] eroded =
limestone=20
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/28/2007 8:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Knowledge of materials is indeed =
something that=20
is part of the responsibilty of the bohunk.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Wudy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>I would argue that we're all responsible for knowledge of=20
materials.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A=20
=
title=3Dhttp://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000=
000982=20
=
href=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000=
000982"=20
target=3D_blank>AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV>-- To terminate puerile =
preservation=20
prattling among pals and the uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, =
go to:=20
http://listserv.icors.org/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html=20
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------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C7D161.7C9D6070--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 00:10:19 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: eroded limestone question
-------------------------------1185682219
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 7/28/2007 9:53:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
You are right Ralph
Glad to be included,
Rudy
Me, too. The hell with that other guy.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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-------------------------------1185682219
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/28/2007 9:53:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
<DIV>You are right Ralph</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Glad to be included,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rudy</DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Me, too. The hell with that other guy.</DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FO=
NT style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"=
MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=3D"http://discove=
r.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" href=3D"http://di=
scover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982" target=3D"_b=
lank">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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End of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 28 Jul 2007 to 29 Jul 2007 (#2007-176)
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