Amen Kathy. the Bible say's "abscent from the body present with the Lord." -- Christ is the reason for the season. If there was not Chirst. There would be no Christ-mas. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!! Karen Carter Class of '74 -------------- Original message -------------- From: Kathy Du Bois <[log in to unmask]> > Thanks Helen, for posting > As the text points out, the rich man could see > Abraham, who was in heaven, but he couldn't see > his brothers on earth. Besides, the rich man > was, evidently, in hell. they can see something, > maybe, but it doesn't mention that Lazarus could > see anything of his previous life. He was being > comforted and Abraham didn't want him disturbed > with earthly problems. Plus, if we believe that > eternity begins, for us, when we die, the > statements in Revelation would take affect upon > our death. We don't have to wait for the second > coming, the people who are still on earth do. > Kathy > > > > At 03:57 PM 1/30/2007, you wrote: > >Julie, here are the scriptures to which you refer: > > > >Luke 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, > >which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: > >20 And there was a certain beggar named > >Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, > >21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which > >fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. > >22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, > >and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s > >bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; > >23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in > >torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. > >24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have > >mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip > >the tip of his finger in water, and cool my > >tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. > >25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in > >thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and > >likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. > >26 And beside all this, between us and you > >there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which > >would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can > >they pass to us, that would come from thence. > >27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, > >that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: > >28 For I have five brethren; that he may > >testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. > >29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and > >the prophets; let them hear them. > >30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one > >went unto them from the dead, they will repent. > >31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses > >and the prophets, neither will they be > >persuaded, though one rose from the dead. > > > >Please notice that the rich man was not even on > >earth. He was in hell. Also notice in verse 26 > >where Abraham says there is a great gulf fixed > >between the rich man in hell, and Abraham and > >the beggar who had suffered partly because the rich man ignored his needs. > > > >My point is that the scripture account to which > >you referred is not concerning communication > >between heaven and earth. My dear mother and > >father are in Heaven, and for all the years they > >have been gone, and in which I have missed them > >terribly, I wouldn't want them to know some of > >the suffering that I have endured or the sins I > >have committed since they have gone. And I > >don't believe that they have known, else the > >suffering they endured in this life would not be > >ended. Sorry, Julie, I just don't believe that > >those who have gone before are aware of what is > >going on here on the earth they left behind. > > > >In Jesus' Love, > >Helen > > > > > >Earlier you wrote: > > > >>Helen, > >> > >>That's a good point. However, the passage in > >>Revelation is talking about the New Jerusalem > >>on Earth after the second coming. At that > >>time, there certainly will be no more sorrow or pain forever. > >> > >>In the gospels, though, Jesus talks about the > >>rich man and Lazerus being able to see and even > >>communicate with each other on a limited basis, > >>and that would seem to support those in heaven > >>currently being able to glimpse those on > >>Earth. Just my opinion but backed up with Scripture. > >> > >> > >> > >>JulieMelton > > > > > > > >"My Life is not in what He gives me, but in Who He is."