The cloud of witnesses are the ones who witness to us while they were on earth.  

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Christ is the reason for the season. If there was not Chirst. There would be no Christ-mas. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!! 
Karen Carter 
Class of '74

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: JULIE MELTON <[log in to unmask]> 

> Brad, 
> 
> Then what do you think "cloud of witnesses" means? I don't think our loved 
> ones are the focus of our faith, and I don't continuallly dwell on their 
> watching over us. However, God being the focus doesn't preclude loved ones 
> watching and even cheering us on in the race. 
> 
> I also resent the implication that your approach is truth and mine is based 
> on emotion. I've studied the context of that scripture before, and that's 
> always been my interpretation and that of many others. 
> 
> JulieMelton 
> visit me at 
> www.heart-and-music.com 
> or subscribe to my podcast at 
> http://feed.feedburner.com/hmradio 
> Keep smiling! 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "MV" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:36 PM 
> Subject: Re: wondering. 
> 
> 
> > Chapter and verse are for our benefit and so reading "through" the 
> > beginning of Chapter 12, starting back in Chapter 11 we have... 
> > 
> > 
> > By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the 
> > Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned. By faith the walls of 
> > Jericho 
> > fell down after they were encircled for seven days. By faith the harlot 
> > Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received 
> > the spies with peace. And what more shall I say? For the time would fail 
> > me 
> > to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and 
> > Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked 
> > righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched 
> > the 
> > violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made 
> > strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the 
> > aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again. And others were 
> > tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better 
> > resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and 
> > of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were 
> > tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and 
> > goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented-- of whom the world was 
> > not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of 
> > the earth. And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, 
> > did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, 
> > that they should not be made perfect apart from us. Therefore we also, 
> > since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside 
> > every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with 
> > endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author 
> > and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured 
> > the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the 
> > throne of God. 
> > 
> > Seems to me a laundry list of examples of peoples trials and triumphs were 
> > listed stating they did not receive the promise but God indeed had 
> > something better in mind for us, and the "cloud of witnesses" is a point 
> > of 
> > historical reference on which we can look upon knowing we, although may 
> > endure hardship, will indeed receive the promise. Also note the early 
> > list 
> > of events and how they all mention they had "faith", it didn't say they 
> > were being comforted by the watchful eye of those who earlier passed on. 
> > Faith I think we can safely presume is that in and from God. To me taking 
> > those three words and stretching it to be watchful eyes from above is 
> > unhealthy. If you notice the continuance shows Jesus to be the focus of 
> > our 
> > faith and and not those who have gone before us. I'd have to see 
> > supporting 
> > Scripture to see this. I think we have to look at it from God's 
> > perspective 
> > as much as we possibly can. He is our focus, our point of faith and 
> > comfort, our joy, our peace and not those we loved in this world who have 
> > passed on. That doesn't mean we stop looking on their memory as a loving 
> > thing, or that we don't find our selves changed by them or that they stop 
> > living in our hearts, but I'm not sure God would approve of them being a 
> > point of comfort, peace, thinking they are watching over us in stead or 
> > along with him, or even the thought they take part in our aid here? I'm 
> > sorry, I can not respect that thought. It is nice to think, to help make 
> > our emotional shortcomings easier to deal with, but that doesn't make it 
> > truth. I'd like to see more Scripture reference on this please. 
> > 
> > Brad 
> >