To the fellow asking about 160 meters: I think Phil posted an article to this list a couple years ago about short verticals for 160 meters. Maybe he'll repost or I can look through my archives and see if I can find it. Ping k0nx, if you've still got it post it to him direct or to the list. It took two or three messages if I recall. I'd have to edit the headers but could possibly find it in my archives if you don't have it. 73 de nf5b Richard Webb Electric Spider Productions "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --- Benjamin Franklin, NOvember 1755 from the Historical review of Pennsylvania