--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:31:24 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fandango Virtual
X-To: Monty <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_2zACHoRx4y4C/r0zP2OSKw)"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_2zACHoRx4y4C/r0zP2OSKw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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Fandango Virtual is pleased to present the
Gator Springs Gazette April 2004 issue:
ALL THAT GLITTERS
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fandango.virtual/gator/index.html
and to congratulate the featured winners and runners up from the GSG
FOOL'S GOLD competition for very short prose.
WINNERS:
Gary Cadwallader (1st and tied for 4th and 5th)
Kathy Fish (2nd),
Paul Gitschner (3rd),
Gabriel Orgrease (tied for 4th) and
Chris Himsl (tied for 5th)
RUNNERS UP:
Alexandra Barnes, Melanie Campbell, G W Cox, Mary Deal, Kathy Fish,
Elizabeth Glixman, James Maddocks, Lisa McMann, Gwendolyn Joyce Mintz,
Gabriel Orgrease, Frank Saragosa, Gerard C Smith, Michael Standaert,
Denis Taillefer and Maureen Walsh.
Many thanks to those who donated the prizes for this competition: Bev
Jackson of Lit Pot Press, Jonathan Redhorse, Mary Deal, Denis Taillefer
and Fandango Virtual.
More thanks go to the anonymous panel of judges who worked very hard to
rate the flood of entries and of course those talented folks who took
the time to enter their work.
The print version of this issue (and all 2004 issues to date) is
available at the Fandango Virtual Online Store:
http://www.cafeshops.com/echo_on
contact GSG at [log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
LINKING TO A PARTICULAR ISSUE OF THE GAZETTE:
Please note that two copies of each issue of the Gazette are uploaded,
one with the default index.html as listed in the link above and one with
initials unique to that issue appended to the word gator with an
underscore (i.e. gator_atg.htm for ALL THAT GLITTERS):
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fandango.virtual/gator/gator_atg.htm
If you link to this version it will continue to work after the next
issue is uploaded.
--Boundary_(ID_2zACHoRx4y4C/r0zP2OSKw)
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
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<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Fandango Virtual is pleased to present
the</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Gator Springs Gazette April 2004
issue: </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">ALL THAT GLITTERS</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><br>
<a href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fandango.virtual/gator/index.html">http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fandango.virtual/gator/index.html</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">and to congratulate the featured
winners and runners up from the GSG FOOL'S GOLD competition for very
short prose.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">WINNERS:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Gary Cadwallader (1st and tied for 4th
and 5th)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kathy Fish (2nd),</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Paul Gitschner (3rd),</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Gabriel Orgrease (tied for 4th) and </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Chris Himsl (tied for 5th)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">RUNNERS UP:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Alexandra Barnes, Melanie Campbell, G
W Cox, Mary Deal, Kathy Fish, Elizabeth Glixman, James Maddocks, Lisa
McMann, Gwendolyn Joyce Mintz, Gabriel Orgrease, Frank Saragosa,
Gerard C Smith, Michael Standaert, Denis Taillefer and Maureen Walsh.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Many thanks to those who donated the
prizes for this competition: Bev Jackson of Lit Pot Press, Jonathan
Redhorse, Mary Deal, Denis Taillefer and Fandango Virtual.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">More thanks go to the anonymous panel
of judges who worked very hard to rate the flood of entries and of
course those talented folks who took the time to enter their work. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The print version of this issue (and
all 2004 issues to date) is available at the Fandango Virtual Online
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="Store: ">Store: </a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><a
href="http://www.cafeshops.com/echo_on">http://www.cafeshops.com/echo_on</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><br>
contact GSG at <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">LINKING TO A PARTICULAR ISSUE OF THE
GAZETTE:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><br>
Please note that two copies of each issue of the Gazette are uploaded,
one with the default index.html as listed in the link above and one with
initials unique to that issue appended to the word gator with an
underscore (i.e. gator_atg.htm for ALL THAT GLITTERS): </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><a
href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fandango.virtual/gator/gator_atg.htm">http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fandango.virtual/gator/gator_atg.htm</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
<font face="Arial" size="2">If you link to this version it will
continue to work after the next issue is uploaded.</font>
</body>
</html>
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--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:36:20 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> My next question is at the time of Galieo and Copernicus was there
> one segment of society that believed the world was flat even after
> Columbus ?
There are segments that believe it is flat now.
There are other segments that believe it is hollow with a hole in it at
the North Pole.
There are other segments that believe they are from another planet.
This is a serious answer.
][<
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:43:55 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bulwer-Lytton contest
X-To: Monty <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Brilliant, these. These are the 10 winners of this year's Bulwer-Lytton
contest (run by the English Department of San Jose State University),
wherein one writes only the first line of a bad novel.
10) "As a scientist, Throckmorton knew that if he were ever to break
wind in the echo chamber, he would never hear the end of it."
9) "Just beyond the Narrows, the river widens."
8) "With a curvaceous figure that Venus would have envied, a tanned,
unblemished oval face framed with lustrous thick brown hair, deep
azure-blue eyes fringed with long black lashes, perfect teeth that vied
for competition, and a small straight nose, Marilee had a beauty that
defied description.
7) "Andre, a simple peasant, had only one thing on his mind as he crept
along the East wall: 'Andre creep... Andre creep... Andre creep.'"
6) "Stanislaus Smedley, a man always on the cutting edge of narcissism,
was about to give his body and soul to a back alley sex-change surgeon
to become the woman he loved."
5) "Although Sarah had an abnormal fear of mice, it did not keep her
from eeking out a living at a local pet store."
4) "Stanley looked quite bored and somewhat detached, but then penguins
often do."
3) "Like an over-ripe beefsteak tomato rimmed with cottage cheese, the
corpulent remains of Santa Claus lay dead on the hotel floor."
2) "Mike Hardware was the kind of private eye who didn't know the
meaning of the word 'fear,' a man who could laugh in the face of danger
and spit in the eye of death -- in short, a moron with suicidal
tendencies."
AND THE WINNER IS...
1) "The sun oozed over the horizon, shoved aside darkness, crept along
the greensward, and, with sickly fingers, pushed through the castle
window, revealing the ravaged princess, hand at throat, crown asunder,
gaping in frenzied horror at the sated, sodden amphibian lying beside
her, disbelieving the magnitude of the frog's deception, screaming
madly, ...."You lied!"
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:57:34 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
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In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:26:38 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
This is exactly why smart Owners allow their Design Professionals time and
money to perform a thorough investigation, including cutting probes as needed,
before putting together (much less putting out) the Bid Documents. Better
investigation leads to better documents...
Including finding the original drawings, if we weren't such incredible
cheapskates.
Signed, My Kids Are Starving But Do You Care?
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:26:38 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is exactly why smart Owners al=
low their Design Professionals time and money to perform a thorough investig=
ation, including cutting probes as needed, before putting together (much les=
s putting out) the Bid Documents. </FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT=20=
face=3DArial size=3D2>Better investigation leads to better documents...</FON=
T></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Including finding the original drawings,=
if we weren't such incredible cheapskates.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Signed, My Kids Are Starving But D=
o You Care? </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081166254--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:03:21 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:27:50 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
A book of short stories written by Gabriel Orgrease is now available. It is a
5 x 8 book with 141 pages, not too many of them blank.
From the book's website: "A call for DUMP fiction: as in, "I just had a
dump." The sort of fiction that gets left behind in the woods covered over with
some dry leaves."
Not all that inspirational, but I bought one anyway. C
-------------------------------1081166601
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:27:50 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:<=
/DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>A book of short stories written by Gabriel Org=
rease is now available. It is a 5 x 8 book with 141 pages, not too many of t=
hem blank.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>
<P>From the book's website: "A call for DUMP fiction: as in, "I=20=
just had a dump." The sort of fiction that gets left behind in the woods cov=
ered over with some dry leaves."</P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Not all that inspirational, but I bought o=
ne anyway. C</FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081166601--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:32:53 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Vapor Barrier Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Ralph,
Sorry I did not respond timely to your questions about this...
The reason it is important to know the wall composition is that if you want
to reface the building that originally had a +/- 3/4" cavity:
* Contemporary practice is to have more than 3/4" cavity common in the
50's and 60's
* The backup is probably poorly built so allow for patching of the
backup - this may be the source of your leaks
* The backup construction is typically not straight and true, many
ins-and-outs of the backup will likely push your reskinning out even further
* All this could push your facade over the property line and require
replacing shelf angles with longer ones. This increases the moment on the
shelf angle anchorage. Unless you are not using brick for the reskinning.
If the wall worked for the first few decades, why can't you restore the
existing facade to the original performance without reskinning? I doubt the
bricks have deteriorated much. The rest of the facade (windows, sealants,
mortar, shelf angle flashing, etc) should be replaceable or repairable in
place. Have you considered a thermal scan in order to track the water
infiltration?
Eric Hammarberg
Director of Preservation
Sr. Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Hammarberg, Eric
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:29 PM
To: 'This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting.'
Subject: RE: [BP] Vapor Barrier Question
Ralph,
Assuming this is an early cavity wall, i.e. about 3/4" mostly open cavity
between the face brick and concrete block backup and that the wall performed
well initially, I would be reluctant to install a vapor barrier where there
wasn't one to begin with. I fear trapping the moisture naturally being
driven out of the building behind the barrier. I suggest analyzing the wall
section for where condensation will form during normal ambient conditions -
my mechanical engineers do this for me all the time. This will identify
where the condensation will form in the wall and it is based on the thermal
characteristics of the particular wall. Mold is a somewhat legit concern but
not the only result of condensation within a wall that we should be
concerned about. There is also plaster deterioration and steel corrosion
too.
I recommend looking for the real cause of the leaks. Are they systemic or
discrete leak locations. Do you really need to strip the wall just to stop
the leaks? Don't forget, you will need to seal around all those brick ties.
But, if you do need to reface, I suggest using a vapor permeable waterproof
membrane similar to the "damproofing" they used to install on the backup
walls.
Eric Hammarberg
Director of Preservation
Sr. Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:58 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [BP] Vapor Barrier Question
Alright, boys and girls, I have another pain-in-the-ass technical question,
this time regarding vapor barriers and flexible membrane flashing inside
masonry walls.
I am working on a couple of c. 1950-60 NYC residential buildings, into which
I want to stop water penetration. What I have recommended in the past is
removal of face masonry (in both these cases, brick) and installation of
flexible membrane flashing on the outer face of the backup wall (concrete
block), followed by rebricking and installation of weeps, drainage mat, etc.
The theory is that whatever water migrates inwards through the face brick
will be stopped and drain down the face of the Bituthene, and out the weeps.
One of my least-favorite contractors said yesterday that there have been
concerns that sealing up an entire building in this way may prevent moist
INDOOR air from passing through the wall and outwards, and that mold may
grow as a result. What this alleged individual says is that they have
installed one "course" of Bituthene at shelf angle level to drain water out
and flash the shelf angles, and above that they install Tyvek so that the
moist indoor air can pass through the Tyvek instead of being blocked by the
Bituthene and being trapped forever inside the wall. This guy claimed that
the Tyvek was sealed (including horizontal lap joints) and nailed or glued
to the backup wall, so that condensation forms on the INSIDE face of the
Tyvek.
Seems to me that sealing the Tyvek, esp. at horiz joints, will trap
moisture, too, and trap it at the INTERIOR face of the Tyvek, where you
really don't want it. For the Tyvek to do you any good, it seems to me that
the horiz. Tyvek joints have to be left open so that moisture that condenses
will run down the interior face of the Tyvek and eventually be conducted to
the Bituthene and drained out.
OR am I full of shit about how condensation inside walls works, and
specifically on which plane within the wall it condenses; I have a feeling
that inside moisture condenses at a different plane within the wall than
cold oudoor air condenses.
Please advise, and thanks.
Ralph
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
The information in this email and any attachments may contain
confidential information that is intended solely for the
attention and use of the named addressee(s). This message or
any part thereof must not be disclosed, copied, distributed or
retained by any person without authorization from the addressee.
If you are not the intended addressee, please notify the sender
immediately, and delete this message.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:41:13 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Roundheads
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:58:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Including finding the original drawings, if we weren't such incredible
cheapskates.
Signed, My Kids Are Starving But Do You Care?
In indeed essential component of preparing for Work.
As for your kids starving, last I heard, they were riding rafts on the Mrs.
Ippi and looking forward to healthy (or was it "active"?) sex lives. If you'd
mentioned that hunger was an issue, I'd have diverted some of the Pinhead Dues
I've been using to feed my own horde.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081179673
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:58:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Including finding the original drawings,=
if we weren't such incredible cheapskates.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Signed, My Kids Are Starving But D=
o You Care? </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>In indeed essential component of preparing for Work.</STRONG></=
DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>As for your kids starving, last I heard, they were riding rafts=
on the Mrs. Ippi and looking forward to healthy (or was it "active"?) sex l=
ives. If you'd mentioned that hunger was an issue, I'd have diverted s=
ome of the Pinhead Dues I've been using to feed my own horde.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081179673--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:42:46 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081179765"
-------------------------------1081179765
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/5/2004 8:04:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
From the book's website: "A call for DUMP fiction: as in, "I just had a
dump." The sort of fiction that gets left behind in the woods covered over with
some dry leaves."
Not all that inspirational, but I bought one anyway. C
Well, you know what to use those few blank pages for.
How many blank pages have your books? As many divisions as the Pope?
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 8:04:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<P>From the book's website: "A call for DUMP fiction: as in, "I=20=
just had a dump." The sort of fiction that gets left behind in the woods cov=
ered over with some dry leaves."</P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Not all that inspirational, but I bought o=
ne anyway. C</FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Well, you know what to use those few blank pages for. </ST=
RONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>How many blank pages have <U>your</U> books? As many divi=
sions as the Pope?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081179765--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:15:25 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pamela" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: So, what about Ruth?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41B4A.BAED8138"
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Now, that's an interesting name - Ruth Ralph.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] So, what about Ruth?
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/3/2004 7:34:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ruth,
Richard is taking my place. Richard thanks you. However, it's almost =
sure to be a moot point as there rarely that many anyway. Richard will =
be disappointed if it doesn't work out, but I think he'll understand =
that it will be better for everybody else if they don't get to him. =
Ruth Ralph
=09
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41B4A.BAED8138
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D553091520-05042004>Now, that's an interesting name - Ruth=20
Ralph.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:43=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] So, what about Ruth?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/3/2004 7:34:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
face=3DArial><STRONG>Ruth,</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Richard is taking my =
place. <STRONG>Richard thanks=20
you.</STRONG> However, it's almost sure to be a moot point as =
there=20
rarely that many anyway. <STRONG>Richard will be disappointed if it =
doesn't=20
work out, but I think he'll understand that it will be better for =
everybody else if they don't get to him.</STRONG> Ruth=20
<STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:49:57 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Met History wrote:
> In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:27:50 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> A book of short stories written by Gabriel Orgrease is now
> available. It is a 5 x 8 book with 141 pages, not too many of them
> blank.
>
> From the book's website: "A call for DUMP fiction: as in, "I just
> had a dump." The sort of fiction that gets left behind in the woods
> covered over with some dry leaves."
>
> Not all that inspirational, but I bought one anyway. C
>
Christopher,
It is by no means a self-help book. I do suggest though that you might
want to keep it away from the starving kids.
And though the author's page makes a call for DUMP fiction (as opposed
to all the rage with FLASH fiction) there is very little DUMP fiction in
the book.
Besides that, the pages at 5 x 8" are not quite as handy as the larger 8
x 11 format. ;-)
][<
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:37:18 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: So, what about Ruth?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081222638"
-------------------------------1081222638
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In a message dated 4/5/2004 4:16:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Now, that's an interesting name - Ruth Ralph.
In my yout' in LA, there was (and still is) a grocery store chain called
Ralphs. It turns out that the owner's name was Walter Ralphs, which now that you
mention it, is not only the inverse of my name, but the inverse of my
incorrect name, since my name frequently (I am not an orphan often) comes out Ralph
Walters.
So anyway, Ruth could conceivably have become Ruth Ralphs, if she'd been in a
different place in a different time. As one of my former bosses used to say,
"If my aunt on my mother's side had balls, she'd be my uncle."
OK, so go back to sleep, the whole lot of youse.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081222638
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 4:16:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D553=
091520-05042004>Now, that's an interesting name - Ruth Ralph.</SPAN></FONT><=
/DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>In my yout' in LA, there was (and still i=
s) a grocery store chain called Ralphs. It turns out that the owner's=20=
name was Walter Ralphs, which now that you mention it, is not only the inver=
se of my name, but the inverse of my incorrect name, since my name frequentl=
y (I am not an orphan often) comes out Ralph Walters. </FONT></STRONG>=
</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>So anyway, Ruth could conceivably have be=
come Ruth Ralphs, if she'd been in a different place in a different time.&nb=
sp; As one of my former bosses used to say, <BR>"If my aunt on my mother's s=
ide had balls, she'd be my uncle."</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>OK, so go back to sleep, the whole lot of=
youse.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081222638--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:39:05 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081222745"
-------------------------------1081222745
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/5/2004 6:50:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
It is by no means a self-help book. I do suggest though that you might
want to keep it away from the starving kids.
][<en,
Are you comparing Chrif'f kids to cockaroaches again?
Just curious.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081222745
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/5/2004 6:50:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease@=
OPTONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>It is by no means a self-help book. I do sugge=
st though that you might<BR>want to keep it away from the starving kids.</FO=
NT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>][<en,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Are you comparing Chrif'f kids to co=
ckaroaches again?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Just curious.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081222745--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:02:56 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Largesse: 8 drawer file cabinet for microfiche or 4x5
negatives....
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081263776"
-------------------------------1081263776
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
For pickup by any not-for-profit organization at our office:
8 drawer file cabinet for microfiche or 4x5 negatives; maker unknown, but
battleship quality, 1950's; drawers divided into two rows, thus 16 rows in all,
27" deep - width of channel 4.25" x 6"
Overall, 14.75" wide, 29" wide, 53.25" deep. Needs hand truck or dolly.
Give someone you love that special something!
Christopher Gray
Author, "New York Streetscapes", published May 2003 by Harry N. Abrams, Inc.
"Streetscapes" Columnist, Sunday Real Estate Section
The New York Times
246 West 80th Street (3 steps up, elevator)
New York City 10024
voice: 212-799-0520
fax: 212-799-0542
e: [log in to unmask]
-------------------------------1081263776
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">For pickup by any not-for-profit organiz=
ation at our office:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">8 drawer file cabinet for microfiche or=20=
4x5 negatives; maker unknown, but battleship quality, 1950's; drawers divide=
d into two rows, thus 16 rows in all, 27" deep - width of channel 4.25" =
; x 6"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Overall, 14.75" wide, 29" wide, 53.25" d=
eep. </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Needs hand truck or d=
olly. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Give someone you love that special=20=
something! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Christopher Gray<BR>Author, "New York Streetscapes", published May 2003 by=20=
Harry N. Abrams, Inc.<BR>"Streetscapes" Columnist, Sunday Real Estate Sectio=
n<BR>The New York Times<BR>246 West 80th Street (3 steps up, elevator)=
<BR>New York City 10024<BR>voice: 212-799-0520<BR>fax: &nbs=
p; 212-799-0542 <BR>e: [log in to unmask]<BR><=
/FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081263776--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:26:27 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Largesse: Point of Clarification.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081268787"
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In a message dated 4/6/2004 11:04:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
For pickup by any not-for-profit organization at our office:
8 drawer file cabinet for microfiche or 4x5 negatives; maker unknown, but
battleship quality, 1950's; drawers divided into two rows, thus 16 rows in all,
27" deep - width of channel 4.25" x 6"
Overall, 14.75" wide, 29" wide, 53.25" deep. Needs hand truck or dolly.
Give someone you love that special something!
Sir:
Do I, as the donor of this special something,have to be a non-profit; does
the someone [or organization, if that's OK with you] I love have to be a
non-profit; or does only my teamster pickup have to be non-profit?
Also, I don't understand why this unit has two width dimensions and one depth
dimension. I can't be sure there's room for it along with the masonite cows
until this crucial (note Easter reference) issue is resolved.
How about if you send it to me in exchange for your long-overdue dues? Or
send it to Ruth, or Philip, for that matter. Better yet, Philip will come and
get it if you wait by the door for him.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081268787
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/6/2004 11:04:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">For pickup by any not-for-profit organiz=
ation at our office:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">8 drawer file cabinet for microfiche or=20=
4x5 negatives; maker unknown, but battleship quality, 1950's; drawers divide=
d into two rows, thus 16 rows in all, 27" deep - width of channel 4.25" =
; x 6"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Overall, 14.75" wide, 29" wide, 53.25" d=
eep. </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Needs hand truck or d=
olly. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Give someone you love that special=20=
something! </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Sir:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Do I, as the donor of this special something,have to be a non-profit; d=
oes the someone [or organization, if that's OK with you] I love have to be a=
non-profit; or does only my teamster pickup have to be non-profit?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, I don't understand why this unit has two width dimensions and one=
depth dimension. I can't be sure there's room for it along with the masonit=
e cows until this crucial (note Easter reference) issue is resolved.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>How about if you send it to me in exchange for your long-overdue dues?&=
nbsp; Or send it to Ruth, or Philip, for that matter. Better yet, Phil=
ip will come and get it if you wait by the door for him.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081268787--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:30:08 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Largesse: 8 drawer file cabinet... Additional Clarification
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081269008"
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Also, seeing as how it's the Passover season, please advise whether you've
checked it out with a feather to make sure there's no leaven in it somewhere.
Don't want no left over rye crusts from your 1987 ham and swiss defiling my
otherwise Kosher for Passover basement.
Ths may not be a problem for Philip and his sisters and cousins and aunts,
though.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081269008
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Also, seeing as how it's the Passover season, please advise whether you=
've checked it out with a feather to make sure there's no leaven in it somew=
here. Don't want no left over rye crusts from your 1987 ham and swiss=20=
defiling my otherwise Kosher for Passover basement.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ths may not be a problem for Philip and his sisters and cousins and aun=
ts, though.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081269008--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:56:56 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If you city fellas can just hold out on bread and water for a few more
months I can ship you fresh veggies from the healthful country. Watch for
18 wheelers with Putney Paper Co. on the side, they go to the city every
day. Ruth
At 11:41 AM -0400 4/5/04, [log in to unmask] wrote:
In a message dated 4/5/2004 7:58:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Including finding the original drawings, if we weren't such incredible
cheapskates.
Signed, My Kids Are Starving But Do You Care?
In indeed essential component of preparing for Work.
As for your kids starving, last I heard, they were riding rafts on the Mrs.
Ippi and looking forward to healthy (or was it "active"?) sex lives. If
you'd mentioned that hunger was an issue, I'd have diverted some of the
Pinhead Dues I've been using to feed my own horde.
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:01:43 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You didn't ask, but then nobody on this list ever does, but I'll give this
advice anyway. If it were me I'd say "whet the curiosity" not wet. Do
with this information what you will. Ruth
At 7:26 AM -0400 4/5/04, Gabriel Orgrease wrote:
Orgrease Scores!
M=F6bius Click or the Electrical Pliers 4th Place Tie in All That
Glitters Contest at Gator Springs Gazette.
No More Puppies runner up in All That Glitters Contest at Gator Springs
Gazette.
Eight Stones and Many Feet
A book of short stories written by Gabriel Orgrease is now available. It
is a 5 x 8 book with 141 pages, not too many of them blank.
Perfect bound with a neat cover for front and back. I've not yet got a
copy and have not proofed it... but it is there.
The neat thing is that I can change the book any time that I feel like
it. Cheaper online than in person.
I will also, I think, be putting original paper collages up for sale
here as well.
The lineup of stories is Lost Road, Prospecting Cordova Limestone in
Central Texas, Porcine Signs of Speedsville, Tin Peter, Hypno Chick,
Wrapped Autos, Salt, The Hamptons Classic Horse Show, and Many Feet.
From the story Many Feet: "I suppose a story can have an infinite
number of feet. I have never read any writer's handbook as yet that
suggests a limit to the number of feet to have in a story. Modesty in
foot count I would think would be the general rule, that is, unless you
are doing a brief war epic. Need the feet necessarily be attached to the
bodies from whence they were derived is one line of inquiry that I
suggest you pursue if we go very much further with this. You may also
want to be clear that you do not bore your readers silly with all of the
potential descriptions of feet. I think a few mentions here and there
would suffice to wet the curiosity and to maintain suspense... a brown
shoe with a broken lace and softened dog turd wedged in the tread... or
the delicate bare feet of the princess were light as an ostrich
feather... or the Frog with a Thousand Toes. The premise of the last,
the frog story, is for the reader to be kept curious with a frog with a
thousand toes as to how many trees in a tropical forest the frog with a
thousand toes will need to cling to at any one time."
Keep yourself updated at www.orgrease.org <http://www.orgrease.org/>
][<
Orgrease Scores!
M=F6bius Click or the Electrical Pliers 4th Place Tie in All That Glitters
Contest at Gator Springs Gazette.
No More Puppies runner up in All That Glitters Contest at Gator Springs
Gazette.
Eight Stones and Many Feet
A book of short stories written by Gabriel Orgrease is now available. It is
a 5 x 8 book with 141 pages, not too many of them blank.
Perfect bound with a neat cover for front and back. I've not yet got a copy
and have not proofed it... but it is there.
The neat thing is that I can change the book any time that I feel like it.
Cheaper online than in person.
I will also, I think, be putting original paper collages up for sale here
as well.
The lineup of stories is Lost Road, Prospecting Cordova Limestone in
Central Texas, Porcine Signs of Speedsville, Tin Peter, Hypno Chick,
Wrapped Autos, Salt, The Hamptons Classic Horse Show, and Many Feet.
>From the story Many Feet: "I suppose a story can have an infinite number
>of feet. I have never read any writer's handbook as yet that suggests a
>limit to the number of feet to have in a story. Modesty in foot count I
>would think would be the general rule, that is, unless you are doing a
>brief war epic. Need the feet necessarily be attached to the bodies from
>whence they were derived is one line of inquiry that I suggest you pursue
>if we go very much further with this. You may also want to be clear that
>you do not bore your readers silly with all of the potential descriptions
>of feet. I think a few mentions here and there would suffice to wet the
>curiosity and to maintain suspense... a brown shoe with a broken lace and
>softened dog turd wedged in the tread... or the delicate bare feet of the
>princess were light as an ostrich feather... or the Frog with a Thousand
>Toes. The premise of the last, the frog story, is for the reader to be
>kept curious with a frog with a thousand toes as to how many trees in a
>tropical forest the frog with a thousand toes will need to cling to at any
>one time."
Keep yourself updated at <http://www.orgrease.org/>www.orgrease.org
][<
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:21:48 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Roundheads
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081300908"
-------------------------------1081300908
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/6/2004 9:01:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
If you city fellas can just hold out on bread and water for a few more
months I can ship you fresh veggies from the healthful country. Watch for
18 wheelers with Putney Paper Co. on the side, they go to the city every
day. Ruth
Ruth,
Lucky for us that we don't have to wait for VT to defrost so we can get our
fresh shitcake mushrooms and sundried tomatoes. And if those Putzney Paper Co
trucks come down every day, why'cha hop on one and come see us? Chrif might
even give you a nice filing cabinet for your troubles.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081300908
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/6/2004 9:01:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mrgjb@SOV=
ER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>If you city fellas can just hold out on bread=20=
and water for a few more<BR>months I can ship you fresh veggies from the hea=
lthful country. Watch for<BR>18 wheelers with Putney Paper Co. on the=20=
side, they go to the city every<BR>day. Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ruth,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Lucky for us that we don't have to wait f=
or VT to defrost so we can get our fresh shitcake mushrooms and sundrie=
d tomatoes. And if those Putzney Paper Co trucks come down every=20=
day, why'cha hop on one and come see us? Chrif might even give you a n=
ice filing cabinet for your troubles.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG> </DIV></BODY><=
/HTML>
-------------------------------1081300908--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:25:04 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081301104"
-------------------------------1081301104
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/6/2004 9:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
You didn't ask, but then nobody on this list ever does, but I'll give this
advice anyway. If it were me I'd say "whet the curiosity" not wet. Do
with this information what you will. Ruth
Ruth,
Evidently spelling is no longer a concern among literary circles. What will
be done with your information will fall within the realm of the word "ignore."
As in ignorant.
Walking Dictionary
PS--Then again, maybe he DID mean "wet the curiosity."
-------------------------------1081301104
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/6/2004 9:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mrgjb@SOV=
ER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>You didn't ask, but then nobody on this list e=
ver does, but I'll give this<BR>advice anyway. If it were me I'd say "=
whet the curiosity" not wet. Do<BR>with this information what you will=
. Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ruth,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Evidently spelling is no longer a concern=
among literary circles. What will be done with your information will=20=
fall within the realm of the word "ignore." As in ignorant.</FONT></STRONG><=
/DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Walking Dictionary</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>PS--Then again, maybe he DID mean "wet th=
e curiosity."</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081301104--
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:37:10 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Filing cabinets
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ralph, In your words, "I don't need no stinkin' filing cabinets." I got
some here I'm trying to palm off on unsuspecting relatives and or friends.
I was hoping he was going to say he had a microfilm reader to get rid of.
I REALLY want a microfilm reader. Ruth
At 9:21 PM -0400 4/6/04, [log in to unmask] wrote:
Ruth,
Lucky for us that we don't have to wait for VT to defrost so we can get our
fresh shitcake mushrooms and sundried tomatoes. And if those Putzney Paper
Co trucks come down every day, why'cha hop on one and come see us? Chrif
might even give you a nice filing cabinet for your troubles.
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:38:22 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Filling cabinots
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081355902"
-------------------------------1081355902
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:21:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I was hoping he was going to say he had a microfilm reader to get rid of I
REALLY want a microfilm reader.
It's broken. Anyway, plenty on ebay. C
-------------------------------1081355902
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:21:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrgjb@SO=
VER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I was hoping he was going to say he had a micr=
ofilm reader to get rid of I REALLY want a microfilm reader. </FONT></B=
LOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It's broken. Anyway, plenty=20=
on ebay. C </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081355902--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:13:23 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Filing cabinets
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081358003"
-------------------------------1081358003
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:21:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ralph, In your words, "I don't need no stinkin' filing cabinets." I got
some here I'm trying to palm off on unsuspecting relatives and or friends.
I was hoping he was going to say he had a microfilm reader to get rid of.
I REALLY want a microfilm reader. Ruth
Ruth,
Looks like your friends and relatives are every bit as smart as your Pinhead
friends. Congratulations.
Maybe if you offer a dead frog (or some other premium, like a rusty
screwdriver) along with each file cabinet (wait a minute; these aren't old wooden
filing cabinets, are they?), and point out that one needn't go to the dreaded
Bureau of Minhattin to pick it up, they'll be more receptive.
As for the microfilm reader, I'll keep my eye out for you at The Summit Mall.
But you'll have to come pick it up if I get one. It is FILM you want, not
FICHE, right?
Ralph
-------------------------------1081358003
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:21:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrgjb@SO=
VER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Ralph, In your words, "I don't need no s=
tinkin' filing cabinets." I got<BR>some here I'm trying to palm off on=
unsuspecting relatives and or friends.<BR>I was hoping he was going to say=20=
he had a microfilm reader to get rid of.<BR>I REALLY want a microfilm reader=
. Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ruth,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Looks like your friends and relatives are every bit as smart as=
your Pinhead friends. Congratulations. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Maybe if you offer a dead frog (or some other premium, like a r=
usty screwdriver) along with each file cabinet (wait a minute; these ar=
en't old wooden filing cabinets, are they?), and point out that one nee=
dn't go to the dreaded Bureau of Minhattin to pick it up, they'll be more re=
ceptive.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>As for the microfilm reader, I'll keep my eye out for you at Th=
e Summit Mall. But you'll have to come pick it up if I get one. =20=
It is FILM you want, not FICHE, right?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081358003--
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:15:45 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Filling cabinots
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081358145"
-------------------------------1081358145
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I was hoping he was going to say he had a microfilm reader to get rid of I
REALLY want a microfilm reader.
It's broken. Anyway, plenty on ebay. C
Yeah, but you're going to hog it even though it's broken, aren't you? Your
Rosario Candela basement is going to look like my basement someday, if you're
not careful.
Ralph
Ralph
-------------------------------1081358145
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I was hoping he was going to say he had a micr=
ofilm reader to get rid of I REALLY want a microfilm reader. </FONT></B=
LOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It's broken. Anyway, plenty=20=
on ebay. C</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Yeah, but you're going to hog it even though it's broken, aren'=
t you? Your Rosario Candela basement is going to look like my basement=
someday, if you're not careful.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081358145--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:39:25 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FILM not FICHE
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ralph, Thanks, yes film not fiche. Ruth
At 1:13 PM -0400 4/7/04, [log in to unmask] wrote:
As for the microfilm reader, I'll keep my eye out for you at The Summit
Mall. But you'll have to come pick it up if I get one. It is FILM you
want, not FICHE, right?
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:44:00 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FILM not FICHE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081367040"
-------------------------------1081367040
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/7/2004 3:43:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Ralph, Thanks, yes film not fiche. Ruth
Ruth,
OK, just don't hold your breath.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081367040
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 3:43:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrgjb@SOV=
ER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Ralph, Thanks, yes film not fiche. =
Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ruth,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>OK, just don't hold your breath.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081367040--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:57:41 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/6/2004 9:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> You didn't ask, but then nobody on this list ever does, but I'll
> give this
> advice anyway. If it were me I'd say "whet the curiosity" not
> wet. Do
> with this information what you will. Ruth
>
> *Ruth,*
> **
> *Evidently spelling is no longer a concern among literary circles.
> What will be done with your information will fall within the realm of
> the word "ignore." As in ignorant.*
> **
> *Walking Dictionary*
> **
> *PS--Then again, maybe he DID mean "wet the curiosity."*
I did mean wet, but whet is OK too.
I always thought wet the curiosity meant like "stick a tow in the water
to see how cold it is" and not "sharpen".
Spelling never was a concern among literary circles... only a concern
for the fringes.
There are 31,294 words in the book. If one of them is either spelt or
meant wrong then I'll be happy to change it.
][<
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:05:47 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Christopher - Credit?
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Christopher,
After informing my wife that I do not know how to spell, like she did
not know this already, and that I have a crude understanding of American
idiom it has occured to us that we should offer you a credit on the book
that you purchased. We can send you a penny if you wish or you can wait
until we see each other at some time in the future and I will gladly
give you a quarter.
][<en
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:23:17 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Orgrease Scores!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081372997"
-------------------------------1081372997
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In a message dated 4/7/2004 4:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
There are 31,294 words in the book. If one of them is either spelt or
meant wrong then I'll be happy to change it.
But only one, right?
Ralph
-------------------------------1081372997
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 4:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease@=
OPTONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>There are 31,294 words in the book. If one of=20=
them is either spelt or<BR>meant wrong then I'll be happy to change it.</FON=
T></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>But only one, right?</FONT></STRONG></DIV=
>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081372997--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:25:36 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081373135"
-------------------------------1081373135
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In a message dated 4/7/2004 5:07:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
After informing my wife that I do not know how to spell, like she did
not know this already, and that I have a crude understanding of American
idiom it has occured to us that we should offer you a credit on the book
that you purchased. We can send you a penny if you wish or you can wait
until we see each other at some time in the future and I will gladly
give you a quarter.
And will you gladly pay him Tuesday for a hamburger today?
Call me
Wimpy
-------------------------------1081373135
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 5:07:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease@=
OPTONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>After informing my wife that I do not know how=
to spell, like she did<BR>not know this already, and that I have a crude un=
derstanding of American<BR>idiom it has occured to us that we should offer y=
ou a credit on the book<BR>that you purchased. We can send you a penny if yo=
u wish or you can wait<BR>until we see each other at some time in the future=
and I will gladly<BR>give you a quarter.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>And will you gladly pay him Tue=
sday for a hamburger today?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Call me</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Wimpy</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081373135--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:33:06 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FILM not FICHE
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081373586"
-------------------------------1081373586
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In a message dated 4/7/04 3:43:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
It is FILM you
want, not FICHE, right?
Ruth, I missed a thread - for what do you want a film reader? Christopher
-------------------------------1081373586
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/04 3:43:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mrgjb@SOVER=
.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>It is FILM you<BR>want, not FICHE, right?</FON=
T></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Ruth, I missed a thread - for what do you want a film reader? Chr=
istopher </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081373586--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:37:06 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081373825"
-------------------------------1081373825
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In a message dated 4/7/04 5:07:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
We can send you a penny if you wish or you can wait until we see each other
at some time in the future and I will gladly give you a quarter.
This is another thread I have lost track of. Of which. Of which I have
lost track. What misfpelling? I don't recall a thing about this. The rate: a
penny a word, or a quarter a word? Cash or credit? Aisle or window? Inny or
outey? Fiche or film? Edwards or McCain? Christopher
-------------------------------1081373825
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/04 5:07:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease@OP=
TONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>We can send you a penny if you wish or you can=
wait until we see each other at some time in the future and I will gladly g=
ive you a quarter.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>This is another thread I have lost track of. Of which. =
; Of which I have lost track. What misfpelling? I don't recall a=20=
thing about this. The rate: a penny a word, or a quarter a word? =
Cash or credit? Aisle or window? Inny or outey? &nbs=
p; Fiche or film? Edwards or McCain? Christopher </DIV></B=
ODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081373825--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:52:54 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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In a message dated 4/7/2004 5:37:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> This is another thread I have lost track of. Of which.
> Of which I have lost track.
It has something to do with Ken getting lucky, but I don't know why that should cost YOU either a penny or a quarter. He should be paying Mrs. Ken, not you. Assuming that's who he scored with, anyway, and assuming you didn't score with her.
Sign me,
Scoreless in Summit
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:14:14 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Why does spit shining work? Somehow this seems like a question Steve
Stokowski could answer. Christopher
-------------------------------1081390453
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">Why does spit shining work? Somehow this seems like a question Stev=
e Stokowski could answer. Christopher </BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081390453--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:02:46 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: orgrease scores
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081393366"
-------------------------------1081393366
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Congrats and salutations any possibility of a signed copy...........really
great best Py
-------------------------------1081393366
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">Congrats and salutations any possibility of a signed copy...........reall=
y great best Py</BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081393366--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:10:04 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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In a message dated 4/7/2004 10:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Why does spit shining work? Somehow this seems like a question Steve
Stokowski could answer. Christopher
My guess would be that the spit and rubbing re-liquefy the polish and allow
it to be re-smeared around, making for a more uniform and higher-gloss
appearance.
Why Steve and not Mike Edison, or one of our other science geeks? Do we have
any other science geeks? For that matter, do we have any ex-military types,
or are we all draft-dodging, marijuana-sucking left-wing registered Republican
wusses?
Ralph
-------------------------------1081393804
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 10:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why does spit shining work? Som=
ehow this seems like a question Steve Stokowski could answer. &nb=
sp; Christopher </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>My guess would be that the spit and rubbi=
ng re-liquefy the polish and allow it to be re-smeared around, making for a&=
nbsp;more uniform and higher-gloss appearance. </FONT></STRONG></=
DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Why Steve and not Mike Edison, or one of=20=
our other science geeks? Do we <U>have</U> any other science geeks?&nb=
sp; For that matter, do we have any ex-military types, or are we all dr=
aft-dodging, marijuana-sucking left-wing registered Republican wusses?</FONT=
></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081393804--
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:40:24 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081395624"
-------------------------------1081395624
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In a message dated 4/7/04 11:10:32 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
the spit and rubbing re-liquefy the polish
kiwi-type polishes are not water soluble. of course some of us may have
oil-based spit. c
-------------------------------1081395624
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/04 11:10:32 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2><STRONG>the spit and=20=
rubbing re-liquefy the polish </STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>kiwi-type polishes are not water soluble. of course some of=
us may have oil-based spit. c</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081395624--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:36:42 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081399002"
-------------------------------1081399002
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In a message dated 4/7/04 10:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Why does spit shining work? Somehow this seems like a question Steve
Stokowski could answer.
Thank you.
Shoe polish is wax. Wax melts when hot. Spit on a cloth causes it to have
more friction. Friction causes heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to
melt and develop a smooth surface.
Now, if I could just get paid.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
-------------------------------1081399002
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/04 10:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHistory=
@AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why does spit shining work? Som=
ehow this seems like a question Steve Stokowski could answer.</FONT></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Thank you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Shoe polish is wax. Wax melts when h=
ot. Spit on a cloth causes it to have more friction. Friction causes h=
eat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to melt and develop a smooth s=
urface.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Now, if I could just get paid.</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=
=3D"10">Steve Stokowski<BR>Stone Products Consultants<BR>Building Products M=
icroscopy<BR>10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT l=
ang=3D0 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=
=3D"10"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 siz=
e=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=3D"10">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>http:/=
/members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081399002--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:17:02 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081415822"
-------------------------------1081415822
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/8/04 12:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Shoe polish is wax. Wax melts when hot. Spit on a cloth causes it to have
more friction. Friction causes heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to
melt and develop a smooth surface.
Now, if I could just get paid.
1. What do I owe you?
2. Ergo, if you heat shoes slighty - 110 degrees - it may produce a better
shine; unless the shine itself results from the temporary melting and quick
resolidification of the wax.
C
-------------------------------1081415822
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/04 12:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CrushStone=
@AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Shoe polish is wax. Wax mel=
ts when hot. Spit on a cloth causes it to have more friction. Friction=
causes heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to melt and develop a=
smooth surface.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Now, if I could just get paid.</F=
ONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>1. What do I owe you?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2. Ergo, if you heat shoes slighty - 110 degrees - it=
may produce a better shine; unless the shine itself results from the tempor=
ary melting and quick resolidification of the wax. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>C </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081415822--
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:54:45 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Christopher,
You bought a book that I put together that I realize I spelt one word wrong.
I'm trying to make an offer of recompense prior to the damages that may
be done as a result of my error.
][<en
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:32:43 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Street Credit?
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In a message dated 4/8/04 5:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Christopher, You bought a book that I put together that I realize I spelt
one word wrong. I'm trying to make an offer of recompense prior to the damages
that may
be done as a result of my error. ][<en
Ken, if this is a ruse to get me to sign a release prior to receiving the
book, and experiencing the damage, it won't work! I am looking forward
experiencing the full, malevolent force of your orthographic cruelty. Sincerely
urs, Christopher
PS are you going to tell me which word is mispelled, or do i actually have to
read the whole thing?
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/04 5:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease@OP=
TONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Christopher, You bought a bo=
ok that I put together that I realize I spelt one word wrong. I'm trying to=20=
make an offer of recompense prior to the damages that may<BR>be done as a re=
sult of my error. ][<en</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Ken, if this is a ruse to get me to sign a release prior to receiving t=
he book, and experiencing the damage, it won't work! I am lookin=
g forward experiencing the full, malevolent force of your orthographic=20=
cruelty. Sincerely urs,  =
; Christopher </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS are you going to tell me which word is mispelled, or do i actually h=
ave to read the whole thing? </DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:13:46 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FILM not FICHE
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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All genealogy nuts want microfilm readers, don't they? Lots of genealogy
info is on microfilm. If you find one in somebody's cellar or attic or
where ever that might be coaxed to work someday please let me know. Ruth
At 5:33 PM -0400 4/7/04, Met History wrote:
In a message dated 4/7/04 3:43:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
It is FILM you
want, not FICHE, right?
Ruth, I missed a thread - for what do you want a film reader? Christopher
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:00:51 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:41:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
the spit and rubbing re-liquefy the polish
kiwi-type polishes are not water soluble. of course some of us may have
oil-based spit. c
OK, Einstein, if you're so smart, why are you asking the question?
Ralph
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/2004 11:41:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2><STRONG>the spit and=20=
rubbing re-liquefy the polish </STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>kiwi-type polishes are not water soluble.&n=
bsp; of course some of us may have oil-based spit. c</FONT></DIV=
></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>OK, Einstein, if you're so smart, why are you asking the questi=
on?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:02:57 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 12:40:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Shoe polish is wax. Wax melts when hot. Spit on a cloth causes it to have
more friction. Friction causes heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to
melt and develop a smooth surface.
Seems to me (as someone recently put it so well) that the spit (unless you've
been eating a LOT of gravel, Mr. Concrete) is going to act as a lubricant and
reduce the friction from the rubbing of the cloth on the shoe.
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 12:40:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, CrushSto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Shoe polish is wax. Wax mel=
ts when hot. Spit on a cloth causes it to have more friction. Friction=
causes heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to melt and develop a=
smooth surface.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Seems to me (as someone recently put it so well) that the spit=20=
(unless you've been eating a LOT of gravel, Mr. Concrete) is going to act as=
a lubricant and reduce the friction from the rubbing of the cloth on the sh=
oe.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081425777--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:11:33 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:17:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ergo, if you heat shoes slighty - 110 degrees - it may produce a better
shine; unless the shine itself results from the temporary melting and quick
resolidification of the wax.
On that theory, everybody in Phoenix (and Tucson) should have shiny shoes
from May until mid-October. They'll be interested to know that.
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:17:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ergo, if you heat shoes slighty - 110 degre=
es - it may produce a better shine; unless the shine itself results from the=
temporary melting and quick resolidification of the wax. </FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>On that theory, everybody in Phoenix (and Tucson) should have shiny sho=
es from May until mid-October. They'll be interested to know that.&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:14:36 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:56:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
You bought a book that I put together that I realize I spelt one word wrong.
I'm trying to make an offer of recompense prior to the damages that may
be done as a result of my error.
Seems like preemptive recompense in advance all over again, and I'm not sure
you can do that, even in e-world. But then again, I don't believe in the
abrasive value of expectorant fluids, so what do I know?
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:56:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, orgrease@=
OPTONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>You bought a book that I put together that I r=
ealize I spelt one word wrong.<BR>I'm trying to make an offer of recompense=20=
prior to the damages that may<BR>be done as a result of my error.</FONT></BL=
OCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Seems like preemptive recompense in advance all over again, and=
I'm not sure you can do that, even in e-world. But then again, I=
don't believe in the abrasive value of expectorant fluids, so what do I kno=
w?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:17:04 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Street Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 6:33:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
PS are you going to tell me which word is mispelled, or do i actually have to
read the whole thing?
We could make it contest, like guessing how many jellybeans there are in the
swimming pool. Only different. Winner gets a year's pass on paying his/her
Pinhead dues.
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 6:33:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS are you going to tell me which word is m=
ispelled, or do i actually have to read the whole thing? </FONT></DIV></BLOC=
KQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>We could make it contest, like guessing how many jellybeans the=
re are in the swimming pool. Only different. Winner gets a year's=
pass on paying his/her Pinhead dues.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:19:41 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:17:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
1. What do I owe you?
How much do you have?
Ralph
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:17:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. What do I owe you?</FO=
NT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>How much do you have?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:30:15 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
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In a message dated 4/8/04 8:15:03 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
Seems like preemptive recompense in advance all over again, and I'm not sure
you can do that
like my last royalty statement: 1800 sold, 2800 hundred returned. all my
"friends", no doubt. c
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/04 8:15:03 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Seems like preemptive recompe=
nse in advance all over again, and I'm not sure you can do that</FONT></STRO=
NG></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>like my last royalty statement: 1800 sold, 2800 hundred ret=
urned. all my "friends", no doubt. c </DIV></BODY></=
HTML>
-------------------------------1081427414--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:59:31 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Street Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Met History [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:33 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [BP] Christopher - Street Credit?
>=20
>=20
> PS are you going to tell me which word is mispelled, or do i=20
> actually have to read the whole thing?=20
Ah, the anticipation will whet your appetite for what will surely become
a page turner late into the night.
It will probably be so exciting you will wet your pants.
___________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Gee...I don't want to disappoint
Raleigh Historic Rags by telling him potato chips
Districts Commission don't grow on trees." =20
[log in to unmask] - Crusader Rabbit
919/807-8480
=20
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:32:07 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/8/04 8:07:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Seems to me (as someone recently put it so well) that the spit (unless you've
been eating a LOT of gravel, Mr. Concrete) is going to act as a lubricant and
reduce the friction from the rubbing of the cloth on the shoe.
That's not spit.
Don't throw a fit.
That's drool.
You fool.
Do I get my poetry award now? Does it include concrete overshoes, Mr. New
Joisey?
Signed,
Robert Faust
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/04 8:07:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RLWALTR@AOL=
.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Seems to me (as someone recently pu=
t it so well) that the spit (unless you've been eating a LOT of gravel, Mr.=20=
Concrete) is going to act as a lubricant and reduce the friction from the ru=
bbing of the cloth on the shoe.</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">That's not spit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Don't throw a fit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">That's drool.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">You fool.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Do I get my poetry award now? Does i=
t include concrete overshoes, Mr. New Joisey?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Signed,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Robert Faust</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:05:58 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bruce Marcham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: physics question...
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I decided to give Ask Jeeves a try on this (why does a "spit shine" =
work) and came up with the first document below (among other things, two =
of which are included as well). It seems water does play a part in the =
shining process described but there is also bootlicking and lace sucking =
involved so I am somewhat skeptical.=20
Here is another site that says it takes 1-1/2 hours per boot: =
www.cadetstuff.org/how_to/200201_elliott_bulling.htm
Kiwi sells "Parade Gloss" shoe polish that "Contains silicone for a spit =
shine without the work."
=20
=20
A BOOTBLACK GUIDE TO THE MILITARY SPIT SHINE
_____ =20
(This was given to me by a man whom loves his boots.
I sincerley thank him for allowing me to share it.)
Most bootmen get off with hands-on physical tightness with boots. =
Whether your own, laced up tight and high, ankle to calf or your Buddy =
or Boss's boots pressed hard against tense flesh, Boots are good to get =
close to, to hold and be held by even when it hurts. Your hardcock/cunt =
is convinced of that.=20
Polishing a Boot to a spit-shine returns the honor, gives the boot the =
Service, and Magnificent Looks that the Boot has earned by its power =
over you, sexually and mentally. If Boots are your most esteemed, =
valued possessions they should show it. There is no better way to =
display that esteem than by Spit-Shining Boots to the best of your =
ability and by keeping them Spit-Shined. Worn with pride they gleam =
with the black lure of military glamour, the focus of attention, eyed =
and admired by those who know.=20
I am wearing a pair of 10 inch high U.S.Army Combat Boots. They are ten =
eyelet to a side, rigidly ladder laced with Paratroop Boot laces. =
Pressed into the leather of the boot top you can read 12 R MB 12-71, =
size twelve regular issued in December, 1971. They gleam under a bright =
shine and are=20
a joy to look at. They are powerfully attractive, often stared at =
admiringly when I wear them. They display the pride I take in Boots and =
the pleasure their beauty gives to me. I hope they proclaim Military =
Boot Discipline Fetish!=20
The Military Spit Shine represents the highest achievement of a =
bootblacks skill. Producing that brilliant deep Black Glass Mirror =
finish on heavy Army grade 'Boots, Leather, Man's, Combat, Black', =
factory made to Military Specification is a job demanding patience, =
elbow grease, and perfectionist devotion. (A demanding Drill Instructor =
breathing down your neck or in your face can make up for the devotion as =
many recruit bootblacks can testify.) Most of us have to be our own =
D.I.s unless fortunate enough to bottom under the rule of an Miliaristic =
Top.=20
A great deal of arcane Spit Shine lore involving cotton balls, nylon =
stockings, after shave and so forth has evolved over the years. =
Generations of Enlisted Men have found newer, faster, better methods for =
spit-shines. I have tried all I have heard described. I would not want =
to separate any man wedded to a beloved technique learned in Boot Camp =
or Basic, and well honed. And of course any enslaved bootblack should =
seek direction from his Master and obey. But I know you could do worse =
in both time, effort, and outcome than the spitshine system I use and =
outline here.=20
In part it is adapted from the Guidebook for Marine NCOs but mostly =
learned from experience, by my own labors of love, shineing Combat =
Boots, Jump Boots, Low Quarter Dress Oxford Shoes and other Military =
Issue Footgear of various times and troops, mine and my Masters'.=20
Before you start, wash your hands. Oil and grease are the enemies of =
Shine. An oiled boot can not be polished. For this reason it is =
important to keep your hands or any other part of your body that might =
be in contact with the Boot, clean and free of skin oil.=20
The first step is to clean the Boot. I assume you are starting afresh =
on new, lightly broken in Boots or a pair that has had old layers of =
polish stripped off using lighter fluid and rags. If the Boot is caked =
with crud it needs a preliminary scrubdown with brush and water.=20
Past that there is no better instrument for boot cleaning than your =
tongue. The tongue can reach in the welt and seams and scrub out =
accumulated dust and dirt and by taste it will know when the seam is =
clean. It can lick the upper with broad strokes enjoying the savor of =
the leather. It can summon saliva to wetdown and scrub off the sole and =
heel, edge and bottom. It can work into eyelets and suck laces.=20
Bootlicking is an ideal way of demonstrating respect for a superior. =
"Bootlicker", "Asskisser", "Cocksucker" are all Topmale bywords for =
servility. For the submissive bootblack they are basic services of his =
office and performed with eager pleasure. Seize every opportunity to =
lick=20
Boots in public or private, working on your own boots alone at home or =
humbling yourself before the Boot shod feet of a Master in a Bar, a =
Soldier in the Park, or a Cop on the street. Anywhere, Bootlicking can =
fill you with the glowing good feeling of being in your right & proper =
place.=20
A Spit Shine takes time, five days is the minimum for the shine =
described below though ways exist to speed things up if required. To =
Begin: On each day for four days a layer of polish is spread on the Boot =
and allowed to dry 24 hours (Regular Kiwi Boot Polish is fine for this. =
Buy the big cans.)=20
This fills in the pores and minute cracks in the Bootleather and =
provides a base for the polishing. To spread the polish into the welt =
(where the upper and sole join) and into the seam edges it is necessary =
to use a small dauber or toothbrush. You may want to try working polish =
in with your=20
tongue. (I've never had much shining success applying polish with my =
tongue, lips or nose but the comic results of such attempts may tempt =
Tops to require it on occasion for their amusment and the submissives =
abasement. Walking around all day with your snout and mouth covered =
with Kiwi as a badge of servitude could be a healthy & entertaining =
exercise in humility and help a guy who is Boot shy to come out.)=20
For the upper leather and heel and sole edges, the Body of the Boot, use =
your fingers and rub the polish well into the leather, careful to smooth =
out any fine ridges left by fingerprints, leaving a sleek skin. The =
rich smell of the polish is a real high. The black mess of polish on =
fingers can be cleaned off with mineral spirits and a paper towel =
followed by soap and water. Tops who are sticklers for cleanliness are =
provided with a tough test of the bootblack's diligence in cleaning =
under fingernails.=20
A strapping on the palms of offending hands can be an appropriate =
enforcement of rule and satisfy a bottom's need for punishment.=20
After the Boot has dried overnight it should be given a light tongue =
dusting, no heavy licking here. Then a second coat is applied and =
allowed to dry. Carry out this procedure for four days, four coats of =
polish. After the final drying of the base coat you are ready to begin =
the spit=20
shine itself.=20
The equipment you will need consists of:=20
1. An All-cotton shine rag, the best are those made from an old =
T-shirt,=20
cut into hankerchief size squares. Be sure it is all cotton--a =
polyester=20
mix can strip off the polish you have so industriously applied,=20
2. Polish, preferably "Lincoln, stain, wax Polish, U.S.M.C. approved" =
or=20
"Kiwi Parade Gloss".=20
3. A source of water; I like to use a spray bottle to keep the =
hankerchief=20
damp and to moisten the surface of the polish as needed.=20
To begin, wet the rag and wring it out. You want it lightly damp but =
not=20
wet. Wrap a part of it around the first two fingers of your service =
hand=20
so the excess cloth can be held gathered between thumb and palm. Dip =
the=20
fingers in the moistened polish and start stroking the coated =
bootleather,=20
working a section at a time, Tongue, Toe, etc. You may be surprised at =
how=20
rapidly you bring up a shine if the Boot is well prepared. Keep at=20
it--that shine will become more and more hard shell brilliant with every =
effort. Add Polish to the fingers as needed and spray dampen the cloth =
to=20
keep it from drying out. After the shine is getting slick you can wrap =
the=20
cloth around your hand and rub the boot with hard strokes to smooth the=20
surface to a glassy finish. It is amazing how mirror bright a boot can=20
become with diligent service. A single Jump Boot takes me about a half=20
hour to complete; so a pair takes an hour.=20
Though the results may dazzle and satisfy, it is always gratifying to =
give the Boots another final work over. Apply a light coat of the best =
polish and start over. This finish should blaze mirror bright and =
excite the admiration of all.=20
=20
You will find that once applied a spit shine is easy to maintain. After =
wearing the boots a good tongue cleaning is called for to remove any =
polish that has flaked or scaled from the leather. This is especially =
likely to happen in creases where the leather flexes as the polish has =
been formed=20
into a hard cohesive layer and will flake where bent. When the finish is =
clouded or dim just apply a coat of your best polish and go to work with =
your damp cloth and all will be restored to near perfection.=20
You will occasionally cause inadvertent scrapes or scratches in the =
finish. To repair these I take a little mineral spirits on my finger =
and rub over the area of the scrape. This melts the old polish and =
allows you to spread it into the damaged area. Add some mineral spirits =
to your Kiwi to thin it and smooth more of that on to the area. When =
the marring is vanished, let the boot dry well, add some more of your =
finishing polish and bring the area back to a mirror gloss.=20
Copyright as Published in MIB Newsletter.=20
=20
Spit Shine
The "spit shine" was one of the important points in a proper personal =
appearance. It was attained by much hard work. There were many formulas =
for producing the wanted result. The BX sold a product in a bottle that =
was used by putting a drop or two on your rag and buffing the shine up. =
Put too much and you removed the shine!
Proper preparation of the rag required taking a new shine cloth and =
washing it many times to get the right texture. Then it was washed with =
Lifebouy bar soap. It wasn't rinsed but was allowed to dry with the soap =
still on it. If done right, the cloth was a magic wand, just stroke it =
over the toe and the shine appeared!
An alternate solution was the shoe shine service. Leave your shoes =
outside your door at night with fifty cents in them and the shoe shine =
guy did the hard work for you. He did a fantastic job. However, feeling =
rich, I had purchased a pair of "oil tanned" cordovan dress shoes. I =
left them for him. The next morning, there they were, looking like =
mirrors! I wore them to the first formation of the day only to have a =
first classman challang me to a =
<http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~nuri/shine.htm> shoe shine =
contest. Feeling confident, I accepted his challange. He said I had =
lost. Asking permission to look, I found that the oil treatment caused =
the wax of the shine to crack and come off in pieces. Needless to say, =
the cordovans went into storage until OCS was over.=20
Turk Nuri, Third Squadron
=20
Shoe Shine Contest
This was another of the trials put upon the second class by the first. =
You are standeing in formation, eyes fixed straight ahead, no chance to =
look at anything but the back of the head of the man in front of you. =
suddenly, a voice says, "shoe shine contest,mister?" You have been =
challanged by someone. He has the upper hand, he can look at your shoes =
but you can't see his. This requires you to act on faith that you have =
done all that is possible to produce the spit shine necessary to win. =
You accept the challange (what else can you do?). Now you get a chance =
to do two things, find out who has the better shine (duh!) and whether =
the guy will cut you a break. Usually he called it a draw. He was bound =
by the <http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~nuri/honorcode.htm> =
Honor Code not to cheat you know!=20
Turk Nuri, Third Squadron
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] physics question...
In a message dated 4/7/04 10:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Why does spit shining work? Somehow this seems like a question Steve =
Stokowski could answer.
Thank you.
=20
Shoe polish is wax. Wax melts when hot. Spit on a cloth causes it to =
have more friction. Friction causes heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., =
polish, to melt and develop a smooth surface.
=20
Now, if I could just get paid.
=20
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41D7A.FF5F6F79
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">
<DIV>
<CENTER>
<H1 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D098564614-08042004><FONT size=3D2>I =
decided to give Ask=20
Jeeves a try on this (why does a "spit shine" work) and came up with the =
first=20
document below (among other things, two of which are included as well). =
It seems=20
water does play a part in the shining process described but there is =
also=20
bootlicking and lace sucking involved so I am somewhat=20
skeptical. </FONT></SPAN></H1>
<H1 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D098564614-08042004><FONT size=3D2>Here is =
another site=20
that says it takes 1-1/2 hours per boot: <FONT =
color=3D#666666><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cadetstuff.org/how_to/200201_elliott_bulling.htm">www.=
cadetstuff.org/how_to/200201_elliott_bulling.htm</A></FONT></FONT></SPAN>=
</H1>
<H1 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D098564614-08042004><FONT color=3D#666666 =
size=3D2>Kiwi=20
sells "Parade Gloss" shoe polish that "Contains silicone for a spit =
shine=20
without the work."</FONT></SPAN></H1>
<H1 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D098564614-08042004><FONT color=3D#666666=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </H1>
<H1 align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </H1>
<H1>A BOOTBLACK GUIDE TO THE MILITARY SPIT SHINE</H1></CENTER>
<CENTER>
<HR width=3D"100%" noShade>
</CENTER>
<CENTER><FONT size=3D-1>(This was given to me by a man whom loves his=20
boots.</FONT></CENTER>
<CENTER><FONT size=3D-1>I sincerley thank him for allowing me to share=20
it.)</FONT></CENTER>
<P> Most bootmen get off with hands-on physical tightness with =
boots. =20
Whether your own, laced up tight and high, ankle to calf or your Buddy =
or Boss's=20
boots pressed hard against tense flesh, Boots are good to get close to, =
to hold=20
and be held by even when it hurts. Your hardcock/cunt is convinced =
of=20
that.=20
<P>Polishing a Boot to a spit-shine returns the honor, gives the boot =
the=20
Service, and Magnificent Looks that the Boot has earned by its power =
over you,=20
sexually and mentally. If Boots are your most esteemed, valued =
possessions=20
they should show it. There is no better way to display that esteem =
than by=20
Spit-Shining Boots to the best of your ability and by keeping them=20
Spit-Shined. Worn with pride they gleam with the black lure of =
military=20
glamour, the focus of attention, eyed and admired by those who know.=20
<P>I am wearing a pair of 10 inch high U.S.Army Combat Boots. They =
are ten=20
eyelet to a side, rigidly ladder laced with Paratroop Boot laces. =
Pressed=20
into the leather of the boot top you can read 12 R MB 12-71, size twelve =
regular=20
issued in December, 1971. They gleam under a bright shine and are =
<BR>a=20
joy to look at. They are powerfully attractive, often stared at =
admiringly=20
when I wear them. They display the pride I take in Boots and the =
pleasure=20
their beauty gives to me. I hope they proclaim Military Boot =
Discipline=20
Fetish!=20
<P>The Military Spit Shine represents the highest achievement of a =
bootblacks=20
skill. Producing that brilliant deep Black Glass Mirror finish on =
heavy=20
Army grade 'Boots, Leather, Man's, Combat, Black', factory made to =
Military=20
Specification is a job demanding patience, elbow grease, and =
perfectionist=20
devotion. (A demanding Drill Instructor breathing down your neck =
or in=20
your face can make up for the devotion as many recruit bootblacks can=20
testify.) Most of us have to be our own D.I.s unless fortunate =
enough to=20
bottom under the rule of an Miliaristic Top.=20
<P>A great deal of arcane Spit Shine lore involving cotton balls, nylon=20
stockings, after shave and so forth has evolved over the years. =
Generations of=20
Enlisted Men have found newer, faster, better methods for =
spit-shines. I=20
have tried all I have heard described. I would not want to =
separate any=20
man wedded to a beloved technique learned in Boot Camp or Basic, and =
well=20
honed. And of course any enslaved bootblack should seek direction =
from his=20
Master and obey. But I know you could do worse in both time, =
effort, and=20
outcome than the spitshine system I use and outline here.=20
<P>In part it is adapted from the Guidebook for Marine NCOs but mostly =
learned=20
from experience, by my own labors of love, shineing Combat Boots, Jump =
Boots,=20
Low Quarter Dress Oxford Shoes and other Military Issue Footgear of =
various=20
times and troops, mine and my Masters'.=20
<P>Before you start, wash your hands. Oil and grease are the =
enemies of=20
Shine. An oiled boot can not be polished. For this reason it is =
important=20
to keep your hands or any other part of your body that might be in =
contact with=20
the Boot, clean and free of skin oil.=20
<P>The first step is to clean the Boot. I assume you are starting =
afresh=20
on new, lightly broken in Boots or a pair that has had old layers of =
polish=20
stripped off using lighter fluid and rags. If the Boot is caked =
with crud=20
it needs a preliminary scrubdown with brush and water.=20
<P>Past that there is no better instrument for boot cleaning than your=20
tongue. The tongue can reach in the welt and seams and scrub =
out=20
accumulated dust and dirt and by taste it will know when the seam is =
clean. It=20
can lick the upper with broad strokes enjoying the savor of the =
leather. =20
It can summon saliva to wetdown and scrub off the sole and heel, edge =
and=20
bottom. It can work into eyelets and suck laces.=20
<P>Bootlicking is an ideal way of demonstrating respect for a superior.=20
"Bootlicker", "Asskisser", "Cocksucker" are all Topmale bywords for=20
servility. For the submissive bootblack they are basic services of =
his=20
office and performed with eager pleasure. Seize every opportunity =
to lick=20
<BR>Boots in public or private, working on your own boots alone at home =
or=20
humbling yourself before the Boot shod feet of a Master in a Bar, a =
Soldier in=20
the Park, or a Cop on the street. Anywhere, Bootlicking can fill =
you with=20
the glowing good feeling of being in your right & proper place.=20
<P>A Spit Shine takes time, five days is the minimum for the shine =
described=20
below though ways exist to speed things up if required. To Begin: On =
each day=20
for four days a layer of polish is spread on the Boot and allowed to dry =
24=20
hours (Regular Kiwi Boot Polish is fine for this. Buy the big cans.)=20
<BR> This fills in the pores and minute cracks in the Bootleather =
and=20
provides a base for the polishing. To spread the polish into the welt =
(where the=20
upper and sole join) and into the seam edges it is necessary to use a =
small=20
dauber or toothbrush. You may want to try working polish in with =
your=20
<BR>tongue. (I've never had much shining success applying polish =
with my=20
tongue, lips or nose but the comic results of such attempts may tempt =
Tops to=20
require it on occasion for their amusment and the submissives =
abasement. =20
Walking around all day with your snout and mouth covered with Kiwi as a =
badge of=20
servitude could be a healthy & entertaining exercise in humility and =
help a=20
guy who is Boot shy to come out.)=20
<P>For the upper leather and heel and sole edges, the Body of the Boot, =
use your=20
fingers and rub the polish well into the leather, careful to smooth out =
any fine=20
ridges left by fingerprints, leaving a sleek skin. The rich smell =
of the=20
polish is a real high. The black mess of polish on fingers can be =
cleaned=20
off with mineral spirits and a paper towel followed by soap and =
water. =20
Tops who are sticklers for cleanliness are provided with a tough test of =
the=20
bootblack's diligence in cleaning under fingernails. <BR> A =
strapping on=20
the palms of offending hands can be an appropriate enforcement of rule =
and=20
satisfy a bottom's need for punishment.=20
<P>After the Boot has dried overnight it should be given a light tongue =
dusting,=20
no heavy licking here. Then a second coat is applied and allowed =
to=20
dry. Carry out this procedure for four days, four coats of polish. =
After=20
the final drying of the base coat you are ready to begin the spit =
<BR>shine=20
itself.=20
<P> The equipment you will need consists of:=20
<P> 1. An All-cotton shine rag, the best are those made from an old =
T-shirt, <BR>cut into hankerchief size squares. Be sure it is all=20
cotton--a polyester <BR>mix can strip off the polish you have so =
industriously=20
applied,=20
<P> 2. Polish, preferably "Lincoln, stain, wax Polish, U.S.M.C. =
approved"=20
or <BR>"Kiwi Parade Gloss".=20
<P> 3. A source of water; I like to use a spray bottle to keep the=20
hankerchief <BR>damp and to moisten the surface of the polish as needed. =
<BR> To begin, wet the rag and wring it out. You want it =
lightly damp=20
but not <BR>wet. Wrap a part of it around the first two fingers of =
your=20
service hand <BR>so the excess cloth can be held gathered between thumb =
and=20
palm. Dip the <BR>fingers in the moistened polish and start =
stroking the=20
coated bootleather, <BR>working a section at a time, Tongue, Toe, =
etc. You=20
may be surprised at how <BR>rapidly you bring up a shine if the Boot is =
well=20
prepared. Keep at <BR>it--that shine will become more and more =
hard shell=20
brilliant with every <BR>effort. Add Polish to the fingers as =
needed and=20
spray dampen the cloth to <BR>keep it from drying out. After the shine =
is=20
getting slick you can wrap the <BR>cloth around your hand and rub the =
boot with=20
hard strokes to smooth the <BR>surface to a glassy finish. It is =
amazing=20
how mirror bright a boot can <BR>become with diligent service. A =
single=20
Jump Boot takes me about a half <BR>hour to complete; so a pair takes an =
hour.=20
<P> Though the results may dazzle and satisfy, it is always =
gratifying to=20
give the Boots another final work over. Apply a light coat of the =
best=20
polish and start over. This finish should blaze mirror bright and =
excite=20
the admiration of all. <BR> <BR>You will find that once applied a =
spit=20
shine is easy to maintain. After wearing the boots a good tongue =
cleaning=20
is called for to remove any polish that has flaked or scaled from the=20
leather. This is especially likely to happen in creases where the =
leather=20
flexes as the polish has been formed <BR>into a hard cohesive layer and =
will=20
flake where bent. When the finish is clouded or dim just apply a coat of =
your=20
best polish and go to work with your damp cloth and all will be restored =
to near=20
perfection.=20
<P>You will occasionally cause inadvertent scrapes or scratches in =
the=20
finish. To repair these I take a little mineral spirits on my =
finger and=20
rub over the area of the scrape. This melts the old polish and =
allows you=20
to spread it into the damaged area. Add some mineral spirits to =
your Kiwi=20
to thin it and smooth more of that on to the area. When the =
marring is=20
vanished, let the boot dry well, add some more of your finishing polish =
and=20
bring the area back to a mirror gloss.=20
<P><I><FONT size=3D-1>Copyright as Published in MIB =
Newsletter.</FONT></I> </P>
<P><EM></EM> </P><EM></EM></DIV>
<DIV>
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#0000a0 size=3D6><STRONG>Spit=20
Shine</STRONG></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>The "spit shine" was one of the important points in a =
proper=20
personal appearance. It was attained by much hard work. There were =
many=20
formulas for producing the wanted result. The BX sold a product in a =
bottle=20
that was used by putting a drop or two on your rag and buffing the =
shine up.=20
Put too much and you removed the shine!</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>Proper preparation of the rag required taking a new shine =
cloth=20
and washing it many times to get the right texture. Then it was =
washed with=20
Lifebouy bar soap. It wasn't rinsed but was allowed to dry with the =
soap=20
still on it. If done right, the cloth was a magic wand, just stroke =
it over=20
the toe and the shine appeared!</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>An alternate solution was the shoe shine service. Leave =
your=20
shoes outside your door at night with fifty cents in them and the =
shoe shine=20
guy did the hard work for you. He did a fantastic job. However, =
feeling=20
rich, I had purchased a pair of "oil tanned" cordovan dress shoes. I =
left=20
them for him. The next morning, there they were, looking like =
mirrors! I=20
wore them to the first formation of the day only to have a first =
classman=20
challang me to a</STRONG><A=20
=
href=3D"http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~nuri/shine.htm"><STRONG> =
shoe=20
shine contest</STRONG></A><STRONG>. Feeling confident, I accepted =
his=20
challange. He said I had lost. Asking permission to look, I found =
that the=20
oil treatment caused the wax of the shine to crack and come off in =
pieces.=20
Needless to say, the cordovans went into storage until OCS was over. =
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>Turk Nuri, Third=20
Squadron</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>
<P> </P>
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#0000a0 size=3D6><STRONG>Shoe Shine=20
Contest</STRONG></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3><STRONG>This was =
another of the=20
trials put upon the second class by the first. You are standeing =
in=20
formation, eyes fixed straight ahead, no chance to look at =
anything but=20
the back of the head of the man in front of you. suddenly, a voice =
says,=20
"shoe shine contest,mister?" You have been challanged by someone. =
He has=20
the upper hand, he can look at your shoes but you can't see his. =
This=20
requires you to act on faith that you have done all that is =
possible to=20
produce the spit shine necessary to win. You accept the challange =
(what=20
else can you do?). Now you get a chance to do two things, find out =
who has=20
the better shine (duh!) and whether the guy will cut you a break. =
Usually=20
he called it a draw. He was bound by the </STRONG></FONT><A=20
=
href=3D"http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~nuri/honorcode.htm"><FONT=
=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3><STRONG>Honor =
Code</STRONG></FONT></A><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3><STRONG> not to cheat you know! =
</STRONG></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3><STRONG>Turk Nuri, =
Third=20
=
Squadron</STRONG></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice, it`s=20
help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:37 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] physics question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/7/04 10:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Why does spit shining work? Somehow this =
seems like=20
a question Steve Stokowski could answer.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Thank you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Shoe polish is wax. Wax melts =
when hot.=20
Spit on a cloth causes it to have more friction. Friction causes =
heat. Friction causes wax, i.e., polish, to melt and develop a =
smooth=20
surface.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Now, if I could just get =
paid.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2 PTSIZE=3D"10"=20
FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">Steve Stokowski<BR>Stone Products =
Consultants<BR>Building=20
Products Microscopy<BR>10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>Ashland, Mass.=20
01721-2145</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 PTSIZE=3D"10"=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2=20
PTSIZE=3D"10" FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">508-881-6364 (ph. &=20
=
fax)<BR>http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41D7A.FF5F6F79--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:16:23 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081440983"
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 8:30:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
like my last royalty statement: 1800 sold, 2800 hundred returned. all my
"friends", no doubt. c
Well, when your friends are the few, the proud, and the Pinheads, you can't
expect to sell a whole lot of books.
Sign me,
William Hamilton Bookseller Shopper Soldier Spy
-------------------------------1081440983
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 8:30:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>like my last royalty statement: =
1800 sold, 2800 hundred returned. all my "friends", no doubt.&n=
bsp; c </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Well, when your friends are the few, the proud, and the Pinheads, you c=
an't expect to sell a whole lot of books.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sign me,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>William Hamilton Bookseller Shopper Soldier Spy</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081440983--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:16:56 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Street Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 9:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
It will probably be so exciting you will wet your pants.
That's Ruth, Dan.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081441016
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 9:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Dan.Becke=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>It will probably be so exciting you will wet y=
our pants.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>That's Ruth, Dan.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081441016--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:18:35 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 10:32:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
That's not spit.
Don't throw a fit.
That's drool.
You fool.
Do I get my poetry award now? Does it include concrete overshoes, Mr. New
Joisey?
Signed,
Robert Faust
Fuhgeddaboudit.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081441115
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 10:32:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, CrushSto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>That's not spit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Don't throw a fit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>That's drool.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>You fool.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Do I get my poetry award now?&nbs=
p; Does it include concrete overshoes, Mr. New Joisey?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Signed,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Robert Faust</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Fuhgeddaboudit.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081441115--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:22:30 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081441350"
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 11:06:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Here is another site that says it takes 1-1/2 hours per boot:
www.cadetstuff.org/how_to/200201_elliott_bulling.htm
I stand fully vindicated on expectorant as lubricant!
Ralph
-------------------------------1081441350
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 11:06:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, bmarcham=
@ESF.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<H1 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D098564614-08042004><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=
=3DArial>Here is another site that says it takes 1-1/2 hours per boot:&=
nbsp; <FONT color=3D#666666><A title=3Dhttp://www.cadetstuff.org/how_to=
/200201_elliott_bulling.htm href=3D"http://www.cadetstuff.org/how_to/200201_=
elliott_bulling.htm">www.cadetstuff.org/how_to/200201_elliott_bulling.htm</A=
></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></H1></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I stand fully vindicated on expectorant as lubricant!</STRONG><=
/DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081441350--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:12:02 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Leonardo
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It was bright and sunny When I pulled into the country store filling station=
.=20
Fresh cut daffs were out as were some early melons The good womans well=20
endowed daughter was out front trying to cut a large chain with a hack sa=
w . She=20
was all in whites with a bare midriff and halter top wearing a pair of flo=20
jo's that showed her painted toes.
Her blond hair hung way down almost touching the ground as she squatted and=
=20
worked the saw in a mind boggling kabuki of the feminine body.
I was in a hurry towing a 5,000 lb bob cat and needing air and gas and=20
hurridly stood practically beside her attending to my tasks as she attended=20=
hers .
At one point she graciously turned her head up from her work and asked if sh=
e=20
should move.....=20
unaware that her beltless trousers were now about her hips I assured her=20
while rolling my tooth pick that it was unnecessary to move ;
besides I responded wryly from my pump station that..... " I was enjoying=20
the view"
For a moment this escaped her ; and carried on ; then when the penny dropped=
=20
she stood and with a smile adjusted her waist line, while I gazed=20
heavenward feigning a whistle
I had just finished reading some of leonardo DaVinci work at lunch about how=
=20
painters and sculptors study .Leonardo made some interesting notation about=20
the study of cracks and wavy plaster and how it inspired him=20
His quote from book iv goes=20
=E2=80=9CQuando, vorete, o voi designiatori, pigliare coi giochi qualche uti=
le,=20
sollazzo e da vsare, enpre cose, al proposito, della vostre professione=E2=
=80=A6=E2=80=9D=20
translated:(in brief) =20
I cannot forbear to mention among these precepts a new device for study=20
which, although it may seem but trivial and almost ludicrous, is nevertheles=
s=20
extremely useful in arousing the mind to various inventions. And this is:--=
--=20
-when you look at a wall spotted with stains, or a mixture of stones, ----if=
you=20
have to devise some scene you may find some resemblance to various landscape=
s,=20
beautified with mountains, rivers, rocks, trees, plains, wide valleys and=20
hills in varied arrangement;--- or again you may see battles and figures in=20
action; or strange faces and costumes, and an endless variety of objects whi=
ch-----=20
could reduce to complete and well-drawn forms. And these appear on such=20
walls confusedly, like the sound of bells in whose jangle you may find any n=
ame or=20
word you may choose to imagine.=20
I have been inspired for the rest of the day . Signed py-in -sky=20
.
=20
-------------------------------1081444322
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DUTF-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>It was bright and sunny When I pulled into the country store filling st=
ation. </DIV>
<DIV>Fresh cut daffs were out as were some early melons The good womans =
;well endowed daughter was out front trying to cut a=20=
large chain with a hack saw . She was all in whites with a bare midriff and=20=
halter top wearing a pair of flo jo's that showed her painted toes.</DI=
V>
<DIV> Her blond hair hung way down almost touching the ground as she sq=
uatted and worked the saw in a mind boggling kabuki of the feminine bod=
y.</DIV>
<DIV>I was in a hurry towing a 5,000 lb bob cat and needing air and gas and=20=
hurridly stood practically beside her attending to my tasks as she attended&=
nbsp; hers .</DIV>
<DIV>At one point she graciously turned her head up from her work and a=
sked if she should move..... </DIV>
<DIV> unaware that her beltless trousers were now about her hips =20=
I assured her while rolling my tooth pick that it was unnecessary=
to move ;</DIV>
<DIV>besides I responded wryly from my pump station th=
at..... " I was enjoying the view"</DIV>
<DIV>For a moment this escaped her ; and carried on ; then when th=
e penny dropped she stood and with a smile adjusted her waist li=
ne, while I gazed heavenward feigning a whistle</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I had just finished reading some of leonardo DaVinci work at lunch abou=
t how painters and sculptors study .Leonardo made some interesting notation=20=
about the study of cracks and wavy plaster and how it inspired him </DI=
V>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>His quote from book iv goes </DIV>
<DIV>=E2=80=9CQuando, vorete, o voi designiatori, pigliare coi giochi qualch=
e utile, sollazzo e da vsare, enpre cose, al proposito, della vostre profess=
ione=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D </DIV>
<DIV>
<P>translated:(in brief) =20
<P>I cannot forbear to mention among these precepts a new device for s=
tudy which, although it may seem but trivial and almost ludicrous, is nevert=
heless extremely useful in arousing the mind to various inventions. An=
d this is:---- -when you look at a wall spotted with stains, or a mixture of=
stones, ----if you have to devise some scene you may find some resemblance=20=
to various landscapes, beautified with mountains, rivers, rocks, trees, plai=
ns, wide valleys and hills in varied arrangement;--- or again you may see ba=
ttles and figures in action; or strange faces and costumes, and an endless v=
ariety of objects which----- could reduce to complete and well-drawn forms.&=
nbsp; And these appear on such walls confusedly, like the sound of bells in=20=
whose jangle you may find any name or word you may choose to imagine.=20
<P>I have been inspired for the rest of the day . Signed py-in -sky=20
<P> </P>.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081444322--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:47:19 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Leonardo
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081446438"
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In a message dated 4/8/2004 1:14:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
I have been inspired for the rest of the day . Signed py-in -sky
Ah, yes. Proof of the existence of God.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081446438
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 1:14:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, MSGuild@A=
OL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been inspired for the rest of the day=20=
. Signed py-in -sky </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ah, yes. Proof of the existence of God.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081446438--
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:33:03 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RFI re: availability of vapor-permeable sheet membrane
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Anybody know of (and/or used) a vapor-permeable sheet membrane that would be
suitable for use in waterproofing backup masonry, which would keep rain out
and allow indoor moisture to migrate outwards and into a cavity wall?
I am told that Henry makes a schmear-on product (which covers all of 18.6
SF/gallon!!!) which claims to do the job, but I would much prefer to rely on a
manufacturer's sheet product to form a continuous surface than on some laborer
with a brush load of this...tar.
Thanks.
Ralph
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Anybody know of (and/or used) a vapor-permeable sheet membrane that wou=
ld be suitable for use in waterproofing backup masonry, which would keep rai=
n out and allow indoor moisture to migrate outwards and into a cavity w=
all?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am told that Henry makes a schmear-on product (which covers all of 18=
.6 SF/gallon!!!) which claims to do the job, but I would much prefer to rely=
on a manufacturer's sheet product to form a continuous surface than on some=
laborer with a brush load of this...tar.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081449183--
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:48:57 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RFI re: availability of vapor-permeable sheet membrane
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Sto does. Perm "rate" is important! You need to decide, how permeable?
Eric Hammarberg
Director of Preservation
Sr. Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 2:33 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [BP] RFI re: availability of vapor-permeable sheet membrane
Anybody know of (and/or used) a vapor-permeable sheet membrane that would be
suitable for use in waterproofing backup masonry, which would keep rain out
and allow indoor moisture to migrate outwards and into a cavity wall?
I am told that Henry makes a schmear-on product (which covers all of 18.6
SF/gallon!!!) which claims to do the job, but I would much prefer to rely on
a manufacturer's sheet product to form a continuous surface than on some
laborer with a brush load of this...tar.
Thanks.
Ralph
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:30:45 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bruce Marcham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Leonardo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41DA8.5E8E46EB"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41DA8.5E8E46EB
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
More proof:
=20
I had a friend in college who said he would probably die on "white pants =
day" which is what he called the day all the coeds first wore white =
pants, triggered by a warm sunny day--don't ask me how they know it is =
time. His demise woudl be as a result of driving his motorcycle into the =
back of one of our ubiquitous buses (we had two student run bus =
companies, one for the greater UMass-Amherst campus and north and =
another to go between the five colleges in the Pioneer/Connecticut =
River/Happy Valley of western MA) due to the distraction.=20
=20
But he'd go with bugs on his teeth...
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Leonardo
In a message dated 4/8/2004 1:14:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
I have been inspired for the rest of the day . Signed py-in -sky=20
Ah, yes. Proof of the existence of God.
=20
Ralph
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41DA8.5E8E46EB
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D080145317-08042004>More proof:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D080145317-08042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D080145317-08042004>I had a friend in college who said =
he would=20
probably die on "white pants day" which is what he called the day all =
the coeds=20
first wore white pants, triggered by a warm sunny day--don't ask me how =
they=20
know it is time. His demise woudl be as a result of driving his =
motorcycle into=20
the back of one of our ubiquitous buses (we had two student run bus =
companies,=20
one for the greater UMass-Amherst campus and north and another to go =
between the=20
five colleges in the Pioneer/Connecticut River/Happy Valley of =
western=20
MA) due to the distraction. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D080145317-08042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D080145317-08042004>But he'd go with bugs on his=20
teeth...</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:47=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Leonardo<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 1:14:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid">
<P><FONT face=3DArial>I have been inspired for the rest of the day . =
Signed=20
py-in -sky </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ah, yes. Proof of the existence of =
God.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41DA8.5E8E46EB--
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:29:42 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Leonardo
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My niece drove one of those busses when she was a student at UMass-Amherst.
Ruth
At 4:30 PM -0400 4/8/04, Bruce Marcham wrote:
More proof:
I had a friend in college who said he would probably die on "white pants
day" which is what he called the day all the coeds first wore white pants,
triggered by a warm sunny day--don't ask me how they know it is time. His
demise woudl be as a result of driving his motorcycle into the back of one
of our ubiquitous buses (we had two student run bus companies, one for the
greater UMass-Amherst campus and north and another to go between the five
colleges in the Pioneer/Connecticut River/Happy Valley of western MA) due
to the distraction.
But he'd go with bugs on his teeth...
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:32:36 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RALPH THE ROOSTER--OT
In-Reply-To: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D901D739BF@NY1POST>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is about as far off topic as you can get but I just couldn't resist.
I got it from an Alzheimer's Disease list so it was off topic there too.
Ruth
RALPH THE ROOSTER
A farmer has about 500 hens, but no rooster, and he wants chicks. So, he
goes down the road to the next farmer and asks if he has a rooster that he
would sell.
The other farmer says, "Yep, I've got this great rooster, named Ralph.
He'll service every chicken you got, no problem."
Well, Ralph the rooster costs $3,000, a lot of money, but the farmer
decides he'd be worth it. So, he buys Ralph
The farmer takes Ralph home and sets him down in the barnyard, but first he
gave the rooster a pep talk. "I want you to pace yourself now. You've got a
lot of chickens to service here, and you cost me a lot of money."
Consequently, I'll need you to do a good job. So, take your time and have
some fun," the farmer said, with a chuckle.
Ralph seems to understand, so the farmer points toward the hen house and
Ralph takes off like a shot.
WHAM! Ralph nails every hen in the hen house - three or four times, and the
farmer is really shocked.
After that, the farmer hears a commotion in the duck pen and, sure enough,
Ralph is in there.
Later, the farmer sees Ralph after a flock of geese down by the lake. Once
again - WHAM! He gets all the geese. By sunset he sees Ralph out in the
fields chasing quail and pheasants.
The farmer is distraught and worried that his expensive rooster won't even
last 24 hours. Sure enough, the farmer goes to bed and wakes up the next
morning to find Ralph on his back out in the middle of the yard, mouth
open, tongue hanging out and both feet sticking straight up in the air.
Buzzards are circling overhead.
The farmer, saddened by the loss of such a colorful and expensive animal,
shakes his head and says, "Oh, Ralph, I told you to pace yourself. I tried
to get you to slow down, now look what you've done to yourself."
Ralph opens one eye, nods toward the buzzards circling in the sky and says,
"Shhhh! They're getting closer."
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:35:52 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Leonardo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081478152"
-------------------------------1081478152
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/8/2004 10:05:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
My niece drove one of those busses when she was a student at UMass-Amherst.
Ruth
My wife, soon to be the ex-Mrs. Ralph, rode on one of those buses when she
was a student at Hamster College.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081478152
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/2004 10:05:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mrgjb@SO=
VER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>My niece drove one of those busses when she wa=
s a student at UMass-Amherst.<BR>Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>My wife, soon to be the ex-Mrs. Ralph, ro=
de on one of those buses when she was a student at Hamster College.</FONT></=
STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV></BODY></HTML=
>
-------------------------------1081478152--
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:39:07 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: RALPH THE ROOSTER--OT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081478347"
-------------------------------1081478347
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
No relation. Not to THIS Ralph, anyway.
But any character named Ralph who displays any positive qualities is OK in my
book.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081478347
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>No relation. Not to THIS Ralph, any=
way. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>But any character named Ralph who display=
s any positive qualities is OK in my book. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081478347--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:41:43 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Street Credit?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Met History wrote:
> In a message dated 4/8/04 5:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Christopher, You bought a book that I put together that I
> realize I spelt one word wrong. I'm trying to make an offer of
> recompense prior to the damages that may
> be done as a result of my error. ][<en
>
> Ken, if this is a ruse to get me to sign a release prior to receiving
> the book, and experiencing the damage, it won't work! I am looking
> forward experiencing the full, malevolent force of your orthographic
> cruelty. Sincerely urs, Christopher
>
> PS are you going to tell me which word is mispelled, or do i actually
> have to read the whole thing?
Christopher,
We are tryin' to *whet* your curiosity. Now you get to figure out where
in the book this error occurs.
Soon to be corrected in future editions. ;-)
][<
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:42:36 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Met History wrote:
> In a message dated 4/8/04 8:15:03 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> *Seems like preemptive recompense in advance all over again, and
> I'm not sure you can do that*
>
> like my last royalty statement: 1800 sold, 2800 hundred returned.
> all my "friends", no doubt. c
Returned to where?
][<
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:50:53 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RALPH THE ROOSTER--OT
In-Reply-To: <a04310147bc9bd7888673@[216.114.165.131]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
ROFLMAO!
Good one Ruth!
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:51:17 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081511477"
-------------------------------1081511477
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/9/04 7:43:21 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
like my last royalty statement: 1800 sold, 2800 hundred returned.
> all my "friends", no doubt. c
Returned to where? TO PUBLISHER, DEDUCTED FROM ADVANCE, MUST SELL POODLE
-------------------------------1081511477
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/04 7:43:21 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:</=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>like my last royalty statement: 18=
00 sold, 2800 hundred returned.<BR>> all my "friends", no doubt. &nb=
sp; c<BR><BR>Returned to where? TO PUBLISHER,=20=
DEDUCTED FROM ADVANCE, MUST SELL POODLE </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081511477--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:52:12 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: physics question...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/8/04 8:07:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> *Seems to me (as someone recently put it so well) that the spit
> (unless you've been eating a LOT of gravel, Mr. Concrete) is going
> to act as a lubricant and reduce the friction from the rubbing of
> the cloth on the shoe.*
>
> That's not spit.
> Don't throw a fit.
> That's drool.
> You fool.
>
> Do I get my poetry award now? Does it include concrete overshoes, Mr.
> New Joisey?
>
> Signed,
> Robert Faust
Steve,
Yes... Absolute. We do not have quite enough poetry on BP.
I'll send you a bushel of unspelled words.
][<
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:54:11 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christopher - Street Credit?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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Becker, Dan wrote:
>Ah, the anticipation will whet your appetite for what will surely become
>a page turner late into the night.
>
>It will probably be so exciting you will wet your pants.
>
Sounds like a book fit for SEALS?
][<
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:15:54 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: William Gould <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RALPH THE ROOSTER--OT
In-Reply-To: <a04310147bc9bd7888673@[216.114.165.131]>
Mime-version: 1.0
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When I could stop laughing I printed this and took it to my neighbor, a
farmer with chickens. I'm still chucking.
on 4/9/04 12:32 AM, Ruth Barton at [log in to unmask] wrote:
> This is about as far off topic as you can get but I just couldn't resist.
> I got it from an Alzheimer's Disease list so it was off topic there too.
> Ruth
>
>
>
>
>
> RALPH THE ROOSTER
>
> A farmer has about 500 hens, but no rooster, and he wants chicks. So, he
> goes down the road to the next farmer and asks if he has a rooster that he
> would sell.
>
> The other farmer says, "Yep, I've got this great rooster, named Ralph.
> He'll service every chicken you got, no problem."
>
> Well, Ralph the rooster costs $3,000, a lot of money, but the farmer
> decides he'd be worth it. So, he buys Ralph
>
> The farmer takes Ralph home and sets him down in the barnyard, but first he
> gave the rooster a pep talk. "I want you to pace yourself now. You've got a
> lot of chickens to service here, and you cost me a lot of money."
>
> Consequently, I'll need you to do a good job. So, take your time and have
> some fun," the farmer said, with a chuckle.
>
> Ralph seems to understand, so the farmer points toward the hen house and
> Ralph takes off like a shot.
>
> WHAM! Ralph nails every hen in the hen house - three or four times, and the
> farmer is really shocked.
>
> After that, the farmer hears a commotion in the duck pen and, sure enough,
> Ralph is in there.
>
> Later, the farmer sees Ralph after a flock of geese down by the lake. Once
> again - WHAM! He gets all the geese. By sunset he sees Ralph out in the
> fields chasing quail and pheasants.
>
> The farmer is distraught and worried that his expensive rooster won't even
> last 24 hours. Sure enough, the farmer goes to bed and wakes up the next
> morning to find Ralph on his back out in the middle of the yard, mouth
> open, tongue hanging out and both feet sticking straight up in the air.
> Buzzards are circling overhead.
>
> The farmer, saddened by the loss of such a colorful and expensive animal,
> shakes his head and says, "Oh, Ralph, I told you to pace yourself. I tried
> to get you to slow down, now look what you've done to yourself."
>
> Ralph opens one eye, nods toward the buzzards circling in the sky and says,
> "Shhhh! They're getting closer."
>
> --
> Ruth Barton
> [log in to unmask]
> Dummerston, VT
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:44:59 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hip hop
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Its starting; I just sat down to do some paper work and a little figure went
hop hop hop down the hall past my door . Fearing a splinter or a stub toe I
went to investigate and caught her on the return trip with her old faded bunny
under arm hopping and singing a confused yet spirited
(key of G)
"Here comes Peter Cotton tail hopping down the bunny trail ...Hippity hop
Easter's on its way"
not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in and quickly stubbed his toe......
Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to the experts.....Happy Easter
/passover Pyrate
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Its starting; I just sat down to do some paper work and a little figure=
went hop hop hop down the hall past my door . Fearing a splinter or a=20=
stub toe I went to investigate and caught her on the return trip with h=
er old faded bunny under arm hopping and singing a confused yet s=
pirited </DIV>
<DIV> (key of G) </DIV>
<DIV>"Here comes Peter Cotton tail hopping down the bunny trail ...Hippity h=
op Easter's on its way" </DIV>
<DIV>not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in and quickly stubbed his toe.=
.....</DIV>
<DIV>Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to the experts.....Happy East=
er /passover Pyrate </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081518299--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:02:58 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hip hop
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081519377"
-------------------------------1081519377
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in and quickly stubbed his toe......
Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to the experts.
P-
And, as you should know by now, don't do anything with them once that you
don't want to do at least 100 times. May all your rabbit pellets be chocolate.
Twybil
-------------------------------1081519377
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, MSGuild@A=
OL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in=20=
and quickly stubbed his toe......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop t=
o the experts.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>P-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And, as you should know by now, don't do anything with them once that y=
ou don't want to do at least 100 times. May all your rabbit pellets be choco=
late.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Twybil</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081519377--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:54:45 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fiddling with Newel Post
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
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Over time, the key holes of a violin widen, and the keys narrow.
Eventually there is no more room on the taper of the key to fill the
hole and hold the string in place through friction. At this point, a
violin maker drills out the hole, plugs it, drills the plug, makes a
new key and installs it. Good to go for another generation...or not,
depending on the frequency of the fiddling.
Is this not like a newel post? Or a spindle? How difficult is it to
take a stair rail apart and remake the worn joints?
-jc
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:32:16 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: What is a "tie bar"?
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The steel-framed building at 599 Broadway in New York City (southwest corner
of Houston), built about 1915, was first flanked on one side by a much earlier
8 story masonry, bearing wall building. The 8 story building was demolished
in the 1930s. Photographs following the demolition clearly show some sort of
metal brackets placed - perhaps 10 -12 feet apart? - along the newly exposed
lines of the beams on 599 Broadway. (This area was later used by Forrest
Myers for his sculpture of aluminum beams projecting out into space, subject of a
current "artist's rights" suit.)
These brackets - how do I describe them? They appear to serve the same
purpose as the metal stars on the sidewalls of early 19th century buildings, such
as those in the South Street Seaport area.
I am tempted to call them tie bars.
Christopher
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">The steel-framed building at 599 Broadwa=
y in New York City (southwest corner of Houston), built about 1915, was=
first flanked on one side by a much earlier 8 story masonry, bearing w=
all building. The 8 story building was demolished in the 1930s. &=
nbsp; Photographs following the demolition clearly show some sort of metal b=
rackets placed - perhaps 10 -12 feet apart? - along the newly exposed l=
ines of the beams on 599 Broadway. (This area was later used by F=
orrest Myers for his sculpture of aluminum beams projecting out into space,=20=
subject of a current "artist's rights" suit.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">These brackets - how do I describe them?=
They appear to serve the same purpose as the metal stars on the sidew=
alls of early 19th century buildings, such as those in the South Street Seap=
ort area.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I am tempted to call them tie bars. =
; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081528336--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:43:19 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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charset=ISO-8859-1;
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Are they connected to rods? As in Tie Rods?
Are they straps?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Met History wrote:
> The steel-framed building at 599 Broadway in New York City=A0(southwest=20=
> corner of Houston), built about 1915, was first flanked on one side by=20=
> a much=A0earlier 8 story masonry, bearing wall building.=A0 The 8 =
story=20
> building was demolished in the 1930s.=A0=A0 Photographs following the=20=
> demolition clearly show some sort of metal brackets placed -=20
> perhaps=A010 -12 feet apart? - along the newly exposed lines of the=20
> beams on 599 Broadway.=A0 (This area was later used=A0by Forrest Myers =
for=20
> his sculpture of aluminum beams projecting out into space, subject of=20=
> a current "artist's rights" suit.)
> =A0
> These brackets - how do I describe them?=A0 They appear to serve the=20=
> same purpose as the metal stars on the sidewalls of early 19th century=20=
> buildings, such as those in the South Street Seaport area.
> =A0
> I am tempted to call them tie bars.=A0
> =A0
> Christopher
--Apple-Mail-13-142584592
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Are they connected to rods? As in Tie Rods?
Are they <italic>straps</italic>?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Met History wrote:
<excerpt><bigger>The steel-framed building at 599 Broadway in New York
City=A0(southwest corner of Houston), built about 1915, was first
flanked on one side by a much=A0earlier 8 story masonry, bearing wall
building.=A0 The 8 story building was demolished in the 1930s.=A0=A0
Photographs following the demolition clearly show some sort of metal
brackets placed - perhaps=A010 -12 feet apart? - along the newly exposed
lines of the beams on 599 Broadway.=A0 (This area was later used=A0by
Forrest Myers for his sculpture of aluminum beams projecting out into
space, subject of a current "artist's rights" suit.)</bigger>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>=A0</bigger></fontfamily>
<bigger>These brackets - how do I describe them?=A0 They appear to serve
the same purpose as the metal stars on the sidewalls of early 19th
century buildings, such as those in the South Street Seaport =
area.</bigger>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>=A0</bigger></fontfamily>
<bigger>I am tempted to call them tie bars.=A0</bigger>
<bigger> <fontfamily><param>Arial</param>=A0</fontfamily></bigger>
<bigger>Christopher</bigger>
</excerpt>=
--Apple-Mail-13-142584592--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:52:41 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:44:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Are they connected to rods? As in Tie Rods?
Are they straps?
They are just little smudges in the photographs. They seem to most closely
approximate small lenghts of steel beams, as if bolted through the exterior
wall to something solid (like the perimeter beams within the wall) -- the
"length" of the exterior pieces thus "holding in" the surrounding curtain wall, and
preventing it from bowing out. But, upon reflection, that doesn't really
happen with a shelf-angle-supported curtain wall, does it?
It is possible that the lower (formerly concealed), with these
reinforcements, was originally a party wall, shared with the demolished building. But it
does not appear to widen as it goes down, and thus appears to be a freestanding
element of the 1915 building.
I surmise that the Forrest Myers sculpture was attached to these little
sections of beam (if that's what they were), or, perhaps, their unlying attachment.
Christopher
-------------------------------1081529561
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:44:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, johncall=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Are they connected to rods? As in Tie Ro=
ds?<BR><BR>Are they straps?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">They are just little smudges in the phot=
ographs. They seem to most closely approximate small lenghts of steel=20=
beams, as if bolted through the exterior wall to something solid (like the p=
erimeter beams within the wall) -- the "length" of the exterior pieces thus&=
nbsp;"holding in" the surrounding curtain wall, and preventing it =
from bowing out. But, upon reflection, that doesn't really happen with=
a shelf-angle-supported curtain wall, does it? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It is possible that the lower (formerly=20=
concealed), with these reinforcements, was originally a party wall, shared w=
ith the demolished building. But it does not appear to widen as it goe=
s down, and thus appears to be a freestanding element of the 1915 building.&=
nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I surmise that the Forrest Myers sculptu=
re was attached to these little sections of beam (if that's what they were),=
or, perhaps, their unlying attachment. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher </FONT></DIV></BODY></=
HTML>
-------------------------------1081529561--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:05:30 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hip hop
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Of course, the Boy Scouts have slightly different lyrics, not suitable =
for children carrying fluffy friends.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Hip hop
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in and quickly stubbed his =
toe......
Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to the experts.
P-
=20
And, as you should know by now, don't do anything with them once that =
you don't want to do at least 100 times. May all your rabbit pellets be =
chocolate.
=20
Twybil
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E54.DCFB10E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D951590417-09042004>Of=20
course, the Boy Scouts have slightly different lyrics, not suitable for =
children=20
carrying fluffy friends.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 10:03=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Hip hop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in =
and quickly=20
stubbed his toe......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to =
the=20
experts.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>P-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And, as you should know by now, don't do anything with them once =
that you=20
don't want to do at least 100 times. May all your rabbit pellets be=20
chocolate.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Twybil</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:05:51 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-14-143936601
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What I'm picturing is beams attached to the outside of a brick wall=20
through the wall to something stable, perhaps a beam, or a tie rod. It=20=
sounds as though its purpose is to hold the brick to an internal=20
structure. Depending on how the wall was designed to resolve its=20
loads, its possible that no angle was required.
I can't see it; you better get one of them big city dudes to jump in=20
here.
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Met History wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:44:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> Are they connected to rods?=A0 As in Tie Rods?
>
> Are they straps?
> They are just little smudges in the photographs.=A0 They seem to most=20=
> closely approximate small lenghts of steel beams, as if bolted through=20=
> the exterior wall to something solid (like the perimeter beams within=20=
> the wall) -- the "length" of the exterior pieces thus=A0"holding =
in"=A0the=20
> surrounding curtain wall, and preventing it=A0from bowing out.=A0 But,=20=
> upon reflection, that doesn't really happen with a=20
> shelf-angle-supported curtain wall, does it?=A0=A0
> =A0
> It is possible that the lower (formerly concealed), with these=20
> reinforcements, was originally a party wall, shared with the=20
> demolished building.=A0 But it does not appear to widen as it goes =
down,=20
> and thus appears to be a freestanding element of the 1915 building.=A0=A0=
> =A0
> I surmise that the Forrest Myers sculpture was attached to these=20
> little sections of beam (if that's what they were), or, perhaps, their=20=
> unlying attachment.=A0
> =A0
> Christopher=A0
--Apple-Mail-14-143936601
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What I'm picturing is beams attached to the outside of a brick wall
through the wall to something stable, perhaps a beam, or a tie rod.=20
It sounds as though its purpose is to hold the brick to an internal
structure. Depending on how the wall was designed to resolve its
loads, its possible that no angle was required.
I can't see it; you better get one of them big city dudes to jump in
here.
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Met History wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>In a message dated
4/9/2004 12:44:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] =
writes:</bigger></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>Are they connected to rods?=A0
As in Tie Rods?</bigger></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>Are they =
straps?</bigger></fontfamily>
<bigger>They are just little smudges in the photographs.=A0 They seem to
most closely approximate small lenghts of steel beams, as if bolted
through the exterior wall to something solid (like the perimeter beams
within the wall) -- the "length" of the exterior pieces thus=A0"holding
in"=A0the surrounding curtain wall, and preventing it=A0from bowing =
out.=A0
But, upon reflection, that doesn't really happen with a
shelf-angle-supported curtain wall, does it?=A0=A0</bigger>
<bigger> <fontfamily><param>Arial</param>=A0</fontfamily></bigger>
<bigger>It is possible that the lower (formerly concealed), with these
reinforcements, was originally a party wall, shared with the
demolished building.=A0 But it does not appear to widen as it goes down,
and thus appears to be a freestanding element of the 1915 =
building.=A0=A0</bigger>
<bigger> <fontfamily><param>Arial</param>=A0</fontfamily></bigger>
<bigger>I surmise that the Forrest Myers sculpture was attached to
these little sections of beam (if that's what they were), or, perhaps,
their unlying attachment.=A0</bigger>
<bigger> <fontfamily><param>Arial</param>=A0</fontfamily></bigger>
<bigger>Christopher=A0</bigger>
</excerpt>=
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:23:50 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
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J-
Is this a hypothetical question?
VI
-------------------------------1081535029
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>J-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is this a hypothetical question?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>VI</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081535029--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:43:20 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christopher - Credit?
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081536199"
-------------------------------1081536199
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 7:51:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Returned to where? TO PUBLISHER, DEDUCTED FROM ADVANCE, MUST SELL POODLE
I can see the crocodile tears running down your cheeks from here.
The Other Ralph
-------------------------------1081536199
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 7:51:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Returned to where? &=
nbsp; TO PUBLISHER, DEDUCTED FROM ADVANCE, MUST SELL POODLE </FONT></B=
LOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I can see the crocodile tears running dow=
n your cheeks from here.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>The Other Ralph </FONT></STRONG></DI=
V></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081536199--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:43:56 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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-------------------------------1081536236
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 7:53:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Yes... Absolute. We do not have quite enough poetry on BP.
I'll send you a bushel of unspelled words.
Make that a bushel and a peck.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081536236
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 7:53:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease@=
OPTONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Yes... Absolute. We do not have quite enough p=
oetry on BP.<BR>I'll send you a bushel of unspelled words.</FONT></BLOCKQUOT=
E></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Make that a bushel and a peck.</FONT></ST=
RONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081536236--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:45:14 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: RALPH THE ROOSTER--OT
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-------------------------------1081536314
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:11:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
When I could stop laughing I printed this and took it to my neighbor, a
farmer with chickens. I'm still chucking.
But are you still clucking?
The Other Ralph
-------------------------------1081536314
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:11:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, preservat=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>When I could stop laughing I printed this and=20=
took it to my neighbor, a<BR>farmer with chickens. I'm still chucking.=
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>But are you still clucking?</FONT></STRON=
G></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>The Other Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV></BODY></HTML=
>
-------------------------------1081536314--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:48:59 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-------------------------------1081536538
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In a message dated 4/9/04 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I am tempted to call them tie bars.
Resist temptation! Unless you can use them to hold your necktie flat to your
shirt front without strangling yourself. I've always considered tie bars to
be longer versions of tie clasps. They go best with the wide painted ties
from the 40's.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
-------------------------------1081536538
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/04 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHistory=
@AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I am tempted to call them tie bars=
. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Resist temptation! Unless you can us=
e them to hold your necktie flat to your shirt front without strangling your=
self. I've always considered tie bars to be longer versions of tie cla=
sps. They go best with the wide painted ties from the 40's. </FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=
=3D"10">Steve Stokowski<BR>Stone Products Consultants<BR>Building Products M=
icroscopy<BR>10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT l=
ang=3D0 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=
=3D"10"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 siz=
e=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=3D"10">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>http:/=
/members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081536538--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:51:31 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081536691"
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In a message dated 4/9/04 2:44:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
and a peck.
Eeewww. You freak. Chicken lover.
Steve Stokowski
-------------------------------1081536691
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/04 2:44:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RLWALTR@AOL=
.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2><STRONG>and a peck.</=
STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Eeewww. You freak. Chicken lov=
er.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=
=3D"10">Steve Stokowski<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081536691--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:54:22 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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-------------------------------1081536862
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Photographs following the demolition clearly show some sort of metal brackets
placed - perhaps 10 -12 feet apart? - along the newly exposed lines of the
beams on 599 Broadway. (This area was later used by Forrest Myers for his
sculpture of aluminum beams projecting out into space, subject of a current
"artist's rights" suit.)
These brackets - how do I describe them? They appear to serve the same
purpose as the metal stars on the sidewalls of early 19th century buildings, such
as those in the South Street Seaport area.
I am tempted to call them tie bars.
If you'd post the damn picture, we might be able to help.
Having said that, my guess would be that these are short sections of channel
(a squared-off C-shaped piece of steel) that essentially serve as giant
washers for the nuts on the bolts which are used as tie rods to secure the walls to
the floor joists. The stars of the star anchors work as washers, too, but the
channel spreads the load over a larger area than the star, which is (almost)
always a good idea.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081536862
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Photographs following the demolition cle=
arly show some sort of metal brackets placed - perhaps 10 -12 feet apar=
t? - along the newly exposed lines of the beams on 599 Broadway. (This=
area was later used by Forrest Myers for his sculpture of aluminum bea=
ms projecting out into space, subject of a current "artist's rights" suit.)<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">These brackets - how do I describe them?=
They appear to serve the same purpose as the metal stars on the sidew=
alls of early 19th century buildings, such as those in the South Street Seap=
ort area.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I am tempted to call them tie bars. =
; </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>If you'd post the damn picture, we might=20=
be able to help. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Having said that, my guess would be that=20=
these are short sections of channel (a squared-off C-shaped piece of steel)=20=
that essentially serve as giant washers for the nuts on the bolts which=
are used as tie rods to secure the walls to the floor joists. The sta=
rs of the star anchors work as washers, too, but the channel spreads the loa=
d over a larger area than the star, which is (almost) always a good idea.</F=
ONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081536862--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:58:48 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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-------------------------------1081537128
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:53:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
They are just little smudges in the photographs. They seem to most closely
approximate small lenghts of steel beams, as if bolted through the exterior
wall to something solid (like the perimeter beams within the wall) -- the
"length" of the exterior pieces thus "holding in" the surrounding curtain wall, and
preventing it from bowing out. But, upon reflection, that doesn't really
happen with a shelf-angle-supported curtain wall, does it?
Oh, now I get it. We're talking about structural smudges. Those must be
similar to structural caulk.
And no, you shouldn't need exposed tie rods and washers for a shelf-angle
supported curtain wall. On the other hand, if they omitted nuts and/or bolts
when installing the shelf angles to carry the curtain wall, or omitted masonry
ties when laying up the face and backup walls, one could be considered very
lucky to have a facade that wasn't lying in the street.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081537128
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 12:53:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">They are just little smudges in the phot=
ographs. They seem to most closely approximate small lenghts of steel=20=
beams, as if bolted through the exterior wall to something solid (like the p=
erimeter beams within the wall) -- the "length" of the exterior pieces thus&=
nbsp;"holding in" the surrounding curtain wall, and preventing it =
from bowing out. But, upon reflection, that doesn't really happen with=
a shelf-angle-supported curtain wall, does it? </FONT></DIV></B=
LOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Oh, now I get it. We're talking abo=
ut structural smudges. Those must be similar to structural caulk.</FON=
T></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>And no, you shouldn't need exposed tie ro=
ds and washers for a shelf-angle supported curtain wall. On the other=20=
hand, if they omitted nuts and/or bolts when installing the shelf angles to=20=
carry the curtain wall, or omitted masonry ties when laying up the face and=20=
backup walls, one could be considered very lucky to have a facade that=20=
wasn't lying in the street.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081537128--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:59:20 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fine, fine, fine, I'll called them...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081537160"
-------------------------------1081537160
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:49:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
In a message dated 4/9/04 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I am tempted to call them tie bars.
Resist temptation! Unless you can use them to hold your necktie flat to your
shirt front without strangling yourself. I've always considered tie bars to
be longer versions of tie clasps.
..."tie tacks". sign me, Windsor Not
-------------------------------1081537160
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:49:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, CrushSton=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In a message dated 4/9/04 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight T=
ime, [log in to unmask] writes:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>I am tempted to call them=
tie bars. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Resist temptation! Unless y=
ou can use them to hold your necktie flat to your shirt front without strang=
ling yourself. I've always considered tie bars to be longer versions o=
f tie clasps. </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">..."tie tacks". =20=
sign me, Windsor Not </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081537160--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:59:40 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hip hop
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 1:06:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Of course, the Boy Scouts have slightly different lyrics, not suitable for
children carrying fluffy friends.
This retired Life Scout is unfamiliar with the alternate lyrics. Please
advise.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081537180
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 1:06:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D951=
590417-09042004>Of course, the Boy Scouts have slightly different lyrics, no=
t suitable for children carrying fluffy friends.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>This retired Life Scout is unfamiliar wit=
h the alternate lyrics. Please advise.<BR></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</DIV></FONT></STRONG></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081537180--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:01:45 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
giant washers
Yes, I see that is the right term. Even though it sounds untechnical. Isn't
there a cooler word? Cyma recta? Entasis? Oriel? Tuned Mass Damper?
C
-------------------------------1081537304
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, RLWALTR@A=
OL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2><STRONG>giant washers=
</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Yes, I see that is the right term. =
Even though it sounds untechnical. Isn't there a cooler word?&nb=
sp; Cyma recta? Entasis? Oriel? Tuned Mass Damper?&nb=
sp; C </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:03:46 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:00:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
And no, you shouldn't need exposed tie rods and washers for a shelf-angle
supported curtain wall. On the other hand, if they omitted nuts and/or bolts
when installing the shelf angles to carry the curtain wall, or omitted masonry
ties when laying up the face and backup walls, one could be considered very
lucky to have a facade that wasn't lying in the street.
Ralph
I see, so now you are backtracking on "washers". Are you sure you're a
licensed architect? And if, so, what's wrong with "reverse bearing sheave"? C
-------------------------------1081537426
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:00:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, RLWALTR@A=
OL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2>And no, you shouldn=
't need exposed tie rods and washers for a shelf-angle supported curtain wal=
l. On the other hand, if they omitted nuts and/or bolts when installin=
g the shelf angles to carry the curtain wall, or omitted masonry ties when l=
aying up the face and backup walls, one could be considered very lucky=20=
to have a facade that wasn't lying in the street.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=
=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2>Ralph</FONT></STRON=
G></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I see, so now you are backtracking on "w=
ashers". Are you sure you're a licensed architect? And if,=
so, what's wrong with "reverse bearing sheave"? C </FONT></DIV>=
</BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081537426--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:06:06 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:24:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Is this a hypothetical question?
It could be, theoretically.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081537566
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:24:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Twybil@AO=
L.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is this a hypothetical question?</FONT></DI=
V></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>It could be, theoretically.</FONT></STRON=
G></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081537566--
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:08:12 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: physics question...
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:51:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Eeewww. You freak. Chicken lover.
Maybe, but that doesn't make me a chicken hawk, and I don't practice chicken
lickin'.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081537692
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:51:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CrushSton=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Eeewww. You freak. Ch=
icken lover.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Maybe, but that doesn't make me a chicken=
hawk, and I don't practice chicken lickin'.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081537692--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:09:01 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fine, fine, fine, I'll called them...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:01:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
..."tie tacks". sign me, Windsor Not
That's "nut," Wallis.
-------------------------------1081537740
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:01:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHistor=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">..."tie tacks". =20=
sign me, Windsor Not </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>That's "nut," Wallis.</FONT></STRONG></DI=
V></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:57:49 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hip hop
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Ralph -
=20
Announcements announcements announcements:
Here comes Peter Cotton Tail, hoppin' down the bunny trail. BANG!
Announcements announcements announcements:=20
Mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb. Mary had a =
little lamb, the doctor was surprised.=20
Announcements announcements announcements:
No-el, No-el, No-el, No-el. Where there's no water, there is no =
well.
Announcements announcements announcements:=20
there are more, but right now I don't recall them.
=20
Generally, this gets sung in the mess hall when the camp director gets =
up to say a few "words." If (s)he forgets and says, 'I have some =
announcements,' we get to sing.
=20
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Hip hop
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 1:06:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Of course, the Boy Scouts have slightly different lyrics, not suitable =
for children carrying fluffy friends.
This retired Life Scout is unfamiliar with the alternate lyrics. =
Please advise.
=09
Ralph
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E6C.EF5FF5FC
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Ralph -</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> Here comes Peter =
Cotton Tail,=20
hoppin' down the bunny trail. BANG!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D652350419-09042004>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> Mary had a little =
lamb, little=20
lamb, little lamb. Mary had a little lamb, the doctor was =
surprised.<FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN class=3D652350419-09042004> =
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> No-el, No-el, No-el, =
No-el. Where there's no water, there is no =
well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> there are more, but =
right now=20
I don't recall them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Generally, this gets sung in the mess hall =
when the=20
camp director gets up to say a few "words." If (s)he forgets and =
says, 'I=20
have some announcements,' we get to sing.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D652350419-09042004>-=20
Pam</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></=
SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 3:00=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Hip hop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 1:06:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D951590417-09042004>Of course, the Boy Scouts have slightly =
different=20
lyrics, not suitable for children carrying fluffy=20
friends.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>This retired Life Scout is =
unfamiliar with=20
the alternate lyrics. Please advise.<BR></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040>Ralph</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></STRONG></BODY></HTML>
=00
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:15:33 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: physics question...
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to catch yerself a chicken. First, =
see, ya gotta get a good looking lady chicken, all dressed up. =
Then....well, you take it from there, son.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] physics question...
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:51:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Eeewww. You freak. Chicken lover.
Maybe, but that doesn't make me a chicken hawk, and I don't practice =
chicken lickin'.
=20
Ralph
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E6F.698117EC
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D700451420-09042004>Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to catch =
yerself a=20
chicken. First, see, ya gotta get a good looking lady chicken, all =
dressed=20
up. Then....well, you take it from there, son.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 3:08=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] physics question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:51:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Eeewww. You freak. =
Chicken=20
lover.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Maybe, but that doesn't make me a =
chicken=20
hawk, and I don't practice chicken lickin'.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E6F.698117EC--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:39:28 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hip hop
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081543168"
-------------------------------1081543168
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Announcements announcements announcements:
Here comes Peter Cotton Tail, hoppin' down the bunny trail. BANG!
This is considered humorous, and/or adult? In Boy Scout circles?
Announcements announcements announcements:
Mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb. Mary had a little
lamb, the doctor was surprised.
Mary had a little lamb. With she sheep she went to sleep. The lamb turned
out to be a ram. Mary had a little lamb.
Announcements announcements announcements:
No-el, No-el, No-el, No-el. Where there's no water, there is no well.
Announcements announcements announcements:
there are more, but right now I don't recall them.
Generally, this gets sung in the mess hall when the camp director gets up to
say a few "words." If (s)he forgets and says, 'I have some announcements,' we
get to sing.
-------------------------------1081543168
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D652=
350419-09042004>Announcements announcements announcements:</SPAN></FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D652=
350419-09042004> Here comes Peter Cotton Tail, hoppi=
n' down the bunny trail. BANG!</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#400040><STRONG>This is considered humorous, and/or adult=
? In Boy Scout circles? </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350=
419-09042004>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-09=
042004><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-=
09042004><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN c=
lass=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements announcements:</SPAN><=
/FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-09=
042004><FONT size=3D2> Mary had a little lamb, littl=
e lamb, little lamb. Mary had a little lamb, the doctor was surprised.=
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-=
09042004><FONT size=3D2> </FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></B=
LOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Mary had a little lamb. With she sh=
eep she went to sleep. The lamb turned out to be a ram. Mary had a lit=
tle lamb.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans M=
S" color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=
=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000=
0ff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D652=
350419-09042004>Announcements announcements announcements:</SPAN></FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D652=
350419-09042004> No-el, No-el, No-el, No-el. W=
here there's no water, there is no well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-09=
042004><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-=
09042004><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN c=
lass=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements announcements:</SPAN><=
/FONT> </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D652=
350419-09042004> there are more, but right now I don=
't recall them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D652350419-09=
042004></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D652=
350419-09042004>Generally, this gets sung in the mess hall when the camp dir=
ector gets up to say a few "words." If (s)he forgets and says, 'I have=
some announcements,' we get to sing.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPA=
N></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081543168--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:42:49 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fine, fine, fine, I'll called them...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081543369"
-------------------------------1081543369
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/9/04 3:01:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
..."tie tacks".
Well, those are fundamentally "tacks" that one sticks through one's tie.
Don't confuse this jewelry item with a "Stick Pin".
I take it that youse guys are not "Sharp Dressed Men"?
Signed,
ZZ
-------------------------------1081543369
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/04 3:01:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHistory@=
AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">..."tie tacks".</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Well, those are fundamentally "tacks" =
;that one sticks through one's tie. Don't confuse this jewelry it=
em with a "Stick Pin". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I take it that youse guys are not "Sharp D=
ressed Men"?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Signed,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">ZZ</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081543369--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:00:15 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081544415"
-------------------------------1081544415
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to catch yerself a chicken. First, see,
ya gotta get a good looking lady chicken, all dressed up. Then....well, you
take it from there, son.
I know a hen is female, and a rooster is male, and a capon used to be male,
but is a chicken unisex or only female, or both?
Farmer's grandson
-------------------------------1081544415
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D700=
451420-09042004>Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to catch yerself a chicke=
n. First, see, ya gotta get a good looking lady chicken, all dressed u=
p. Then....well, you take it from there, son.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLO=
CKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I know a hen is female, and a rooster is=20=
male, and a capon used to be male, but is a chicken unisex or only fema=
le, or both? </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Farmer's grandson</FONT></STRONG></DIV></=
BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081544415--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:06:16 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fine, fine, fine, I'll called them...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081544776"
-------------------------------1081544776
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:43:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Well, those are fundamentally "tacks" that one sticks through one's tie.
Don't confuse this jewelry item with a "Stick Pin".
Steve,
I especially wouldn't confuse a tie tack with a stick pin that has a diamond
the size of an ostrich egg. Or even a quail egg. I, on the other hand, have
a tie tack with a silver Adlai Stevenson shoe, which I understand is pretty
valuable. Will have to check it out on eBay.
Ralph (with the new job, soon to be Spouseless in Summit, but not the rooster)
-------------------------------1081544776
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:43:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CrushSton=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Well, those are fundamentally "ta=
cks" that one sticks through one's tie. Don't confuse this j=
ewelry item with a "Stick Pin". </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Steve,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I especially wouldn't confuse a tie tack=20=
with a stick pin that has a diamond the size of an ostrich egg. O=
r even a quail egg. I, on the other hand, have a tie tack with a=20=
silver Adlai Stevenson shoe, which I understand is pretty valuable. Wi=
ll have to check it out on eBay.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph (with the new job, soon to be Spous=
eless in Summit, but not the rooster)</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081544776--
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:12:54 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41E77.6C4C0164"
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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A unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be cuz it's late on =
Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one sex.
=20
But, I think a chicken can be either the hen or the rooster, so I guess =
either my remember's broken or Foghorn Leghorn just had it all wrong.
=20
- Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny watcher.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology question...
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to catch yerself a chicken. First, =
see, ya gotta get a good looking lady chicken, all dressed up. =
Then....well, you take it from there, son.
I know a hen is female, and a rooster is male, and a capon used to be =
male, but is a chicken unisex or only female, or both?=20
=20
Farmer's grandson
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E77.6C4C0164
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D636380721-09042004>A=20
unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be cuz it's late =
on=20
Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one=20
sex.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004>But, I think a chicken can be either the hen =
or the=20
rooster, so I guess either my remember's broken or Foghorn Leghorn =
just had=20
it all wrong.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D636380721-09042004>-=20
Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny =
watcher.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 5:00=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology =
question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D700451420-09042004>Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to =
catch yerself=20
a chicken. First, see, ya gotta get a good looking lady =
chicken, all=20
dressed up. Then....well, you take it from there,=20
son.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I know a hen is female, and a =
rooster is=20
male, and a capon used to be male, but is a chicken unisex or =
only=20
female, or both? </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Farmer's=20
grandson</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E77.6C4C0164--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:16:17 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hip hop
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41E77.E59E656C"
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E77.E59E656C
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Hip hop
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Announcements announcements announcements:
Here comes Peter Cotton Tail, hoppin' down the bunny trail. =
BANG!
This is considered humorous, and/or adult? In Boy Scout circles? It =
used to be considered humorous until "grey areas" came into being. Now =
we gotta be careful what we say to those impressionable young boys who =
might tell mom and dad what the camp counselor said. So, officially it =
gets frowned upon (unofficially, unless the camp inspector's already =
come through). Of course, we're talking Cub Scouts. In the Boy Scout =
camps, I believe it's "anything goes" because it's usually the older =
boys/staff who are starting it.=20
=20
=09
Announcements announcements announcements:=20
Mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb. Mary had a =
little lamb, the doctor was surprised.=20
Mary had a little lamb. With she sheep she went to sleep. The lamb =
turned out to be a ram. Mary had a little lamb.
=09
Announcements announcements announcements:
No-el, No-el, No-el, No-el. Where there's no water, there is no =
well.
Announcements announcements announcements:=20
there are more, but right now I don't recall them.
=20
Generally, this gets sung in the mess hall when the camp director gets =
up to say a few "words." If (s)he forgets and says, 'I have some =
announcements,' we get to sing.
=09
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E77.E59E656C
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 4:39=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Hip hop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 3:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> Here comes Peter =
Cotton=20
Tail, hoppin' down the bunny trail. =
BANG!</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#400040><STRONG>This is considered humorous, and/or =
adult? In=20
Boy Scout circles? </STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D094201321-09042004> <STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040 face=3DArial> <FONT color=3D#ff0000>It used to =
be considered=20
humorous until "grey areas" came into being. Now we gotta be =
careful=20
what we say to those impressionable young boys who might tell mom and =
dad what=20
the camp counselor said. So, officially it gets frowned =
upon=20
(unofficially, unless the camp inspector's already come =
through). =20
Of course, we're talking Cub Scouts. In the Boy Scout camps, I =
believe=20
it's "anything goes" because it's usually the older boys/staff =
who are=20
starting it.</FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D652350419-09042004>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> Mary had a =
little lamb,=20
little lamb, little lamb. Mary had a little lamb, the doctor =
was=20
surprised.<FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>=20
</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Mary had a little lamb. With =
she sheep=20
she went to sleep. The lamb turned out to be a ram. Mary had a =
little=20
lamb.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> No-el, No-el, =
No-el,=20
No-el. Where there's no water, there is no =
well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Announcements announcements=20
announcements:</SPAN></FONT>=20
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004> there are more, =
but right=20
now I don't recall them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D652350419-09042004>Generally, this gets sung in the mess =
hall when the=20
camp director gets up to say a few "words." If (s)he forgets =
and says,=20
'I have some announcements,' we get to=20
=
sing.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT>=
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:30:48 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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BTW, for anyone interested, my coworker found this site (because we both =
had a Halfs-heimer's moment and couldn't remember Foghorn's name). =
http://www.tultw.com/bios/foghorn.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pamela =
Stevenson
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology question...
=09
=09
A unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be cuz it's late on =
Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one sex.
=20
But, I think a chicken can be either the hen or the rooster, so I guess =
either my remember's broken or Foghorn Leghorn just had it all wrong.
=20
- Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny watcher.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology question...
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to catch yerself a chicken. =
First, see, ya gotta get a good looking lady chicken, all dressed up. =
Then....well, you take it from there, son.
I know a hen is female, and a rooster is male, and a capon used to be =
male, but is a chicken unisex or only female, or both?=20
=20
Farmer's grandson
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E79.EC7D391C
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D405023021-09042004>BTW, for anyone interested, my coworker found =
this site=20
(because we both had a Halfs-heimer's moment and couldn't remember =
Foghorn's=20
name). <A=20
href=3D"http://www.tultw.com/bios/foghorn.htm">http://www.tultw.com/bios/=
foghorn.htm</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Pamela=20
Stevenson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 5:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP] =
Not=20
physics question, biology question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D636380721-09042004>A=20
unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be cuz it's late =
on=20
Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one=20
sex.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004>But, I think a chicken can be either the =
hen or the=20
rooster, so I guess either my remember's broken or Foghorn =
Leghorn just=20
had it all wrong.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D636380721-09042004>-=20
Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny =
watcher.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t =
an=20
orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 5:00=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[BP] Not=20
physics question, biology question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 4:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D700451420-09042004>Well now, let me tell ya' son, how to =
catch=20
yerself a chicken. First, see, ya gotta get a good looking =
lady=20
chicken, all dressed up. Then....well, you take it from =
there,=20
son.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I know a hen is female, and a =
rooster is=20
male, and a capon used to be male, but is a chicken unisex or =
only=20
female, or both? </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Farmer's=20
grandson</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:32:46 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081546366"
-------------------------------1081546366
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:13:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
A unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be cuz it's late on
Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one sex.
But, I think a chicken can be either the hen or the rooster, so I guess
either my remember's broken or Foghorn Leghorn just had it all wrong.
- Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny watcher.
No, no no. Not a unisex female. The term can be either unisex OR female. At
least, I think so.
Ralph (also Bugs Bunny fan)
-------------------------------1081546366
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:13:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D636=
380721-09042004>A unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be c=
uz it's late on Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one s=
ex.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D636380721-09=
042004></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D636=
380721-09042004>But, I think a chicken can be either the hen or the rooster,=
so I guess either my remember's broken or Foghorn Leghorn just had it=20=
all wrong.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D636380721-09=
042004></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D636=
380721-09042004>- Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny watcher.=
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>No, no no. Not a unisex female.&nbs=
p; The term can be either unisex OR female. At least, I think so.</FONT=
></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph (also Bugs Bunny fan)</FONT></STRON=
G></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081546366--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:33:10 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-159975301
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charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
Yes, and no. There is a real problem with a real newel post in need of=20=
repair, and a real person with real responsibilities. The question is=20=
mine, because I was uncomfortable with the alternatives that do not=20
include dissassembly. But, the other party is uncomfortable with the=20
disassembly. The discomforts are real and reasonable.
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 1:23 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> J-
> =A0
> Is this a hypothetical question?
> =A0
> VI
--Apple-Mail-1-159975301
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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charset=ISO-8859-1
Yes, and no. There is a real problem with a real newel post in need
of repair, and a real person with real responsibilities. The question
is mine, because I was uncomfortable with the alternatives that do not
include dissassembly. But, the other party is uncomfortable with the
disassembly. The discomforts are real and reasonable.
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 1:23 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
=
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>J-</x-tad-smaller>=
</fontfamily>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>Is this a hypothetical
question?</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>VI</x-tad-smaller></fontfam=
ily>
</excerpt>=
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:36:26 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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Bigolehunkasteel
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 2:01 PM, Met History wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 2:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> giant washers
> Yes, I see that is the right term.=A0=A0Even though it sounds=20
> untechnical.=A0 Isn't there a cooler word?=A0 Cyma=A0recta?=A0 =
Entasis?=A0=20
> Oriel?=A0 Tuned Mass Damper?=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 C
--Apple-Mail-2-160171100
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Bigolehunkasteel
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 2:01 PM, Met History wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>In a message dated
4/9/2004 2:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] =
writes:</bigger></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<smaller><x-tad-smaller>giant
=
washers</x-tad-smaller></smaller></color></fontfamily></bold></excerpt><ex=
cerpt>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<smaller><x-tad-smaller>
=
</x-tad-smaller></smaller></color></fontfamily></bold></excerpt><excerpt><=
bigger>Yes,
I see that is the right term.=A0=A0Even though it sounds untechnical.=A0
Isn't there a cooler word?=A0 Cyma=A0recta?=A0 Entasis?=A0 Oriel?=A0 =
Tuned Mass
Damper?=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 C</bigger>
</excerpt>=
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:37:27 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
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Ahhh. And here I thought maybe you were just pulling Foghorn's leg - =
he's gotta watch out for that chicken hawk, you know, or maybe Ralph =
Rooster.
:-) Oops - that's a grey area.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:33 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology question...
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:13:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
A unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a toughy. Must be cuz it's late on =
Friday. The last time I checked, female was only one sex.
=20
But, I think a chicken can be either the hen or the rooster, so I =
guess either my remember's broken or Foghorn Leghorn just had it all =
wrong.
=20
- Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid Bugs Bunny watcher.
No, no no. Not a unisex female. The term can be either unisex OR =
female. At least, I think so.
=20
Ralph (also Bugs Bunny fan)
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E7A.DA9DB074
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D095113521-09042004>Ahhh. And here I thought maybe you were =
just=20
pulling Foghorn's leg - he's gotta watch out for that chicken hawk, you =
know, or=20
maybe Ralph Rooster.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D095113521-09042004>:-) Oops - that's a grey=20
area.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 5:33=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology =
question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:13:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004>A unisex female...hm, Ralph that's a =
toughy. =20
Must be cuz it's late on Friday. The last time I checked, =
female was=20
only one sex.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004>But, I think a chicken can be either the =
hen or the=20
rooster, so I guess either my remember's broken or Foghorn =
Leghorn just=20
had it all wrong.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D636380721-09042004>- Farmer's great grand-daughter and avid =
Bugs Bunny=20
watcher.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>No, no no. Not a unisex =
female. =20
The term can be either unisex OR female. At least, I think=20
so.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph (also Bugs Bunny=20
fan)</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E7A.DA9DB074--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:39:53 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081546793"
-------------------------------1081546793
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:33:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Yes, and no. There is a real problem with a real newel post in need of
repair, and a real person with real responsibilities. The question is
mine, because I was uncomfortable with the alternatives that do not
include dissassembly. But, the other party is uncomfortable with the
disassembly. The discomforts are real and reasonable.
John,
Take it apart and fix it properly once and for all. Tell him you won't do it
unless you can do it right.
The alternative is that the owner will have to pay somebody else to do a
half-assed job now, and then pay you to do it right after it fails. In the end,
he'll have had to have his stair torn apart twice, and pay for doing it twice,
instead of once.
Tell him Ralph said so. That should do the trick.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081546793
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:33:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncalla=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Yes, and no. There is a real problem wit=
h a real newel post in need of <BR>repair, and a real person with real respo=
nsibilities. The question is <BR>mine, because I was uncomfortable wit=
h the alternatives that do not <BR>include dissassembly. But, the othe=
r party is uncomfortable with the <BR>disassembly. The discomforts are=
real and reasonable.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>John,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Take it apart and fix it properly once an=
d for all. Tell him you won't do it unless you can do it right.</FONT>=
</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>The alternative is that the owner will ha=
ve to pay somebody else to do a half-assed job now, and=
then pay you to do it right after it fails. In the end, he'll ha=
ve had to have his stair torn apart twice, and pay for doing it twice, =
instead of once. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Tell him Ralph said so. That should=
do the trick.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081546793--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:42:59 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081546979"
-------------------------------1081546979
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Ahhh. And here I thought maybe you were just pulling Foghorn's leg - he's
gotta watch out for that chicken hawk, you know, or maybe Ralph Rooster.
:-) Oops - that's a grey area.
Nah.
I told the Penpal once that her thigh (she was sitting in a short skirt at
the time) looked like a chicken leg. Even though I didn't mean anything bad by
it, it may have been a mistake, as unlike Gabriel Orgrease, I never scored and
she ultimately became a dyke.
Einstein
-------------------------------1081546979
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D095=
113521-09042004>Ahhh. And here I thought maybe you were just pulling F=
oghorn's leg - he's gotta watch out for that chicken hawk, you know, or mayb=
e Ralph Rooster.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D095=
113521-09042004>:-) Oops - that's a grey area.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BL=
OCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Nah. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I told the Penpal once that her thigh (sh=
e was sitting in a short skirt at the time) looked like a chicken leg. =
Even though I didn't mean anything bad by it, it may have been a mistake, a=
s unlike Gabriel Orgrease, I never scored and she ultimately became a dyke.<=
/FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Einstein</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>
-------------------------------1081546979--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:48:27 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41E7C.63DF07A4"
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E7C.63DF07A4
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology question...
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ahhh. And here I thought maybe you were just pulling Foghorn's leg - =
he's gotta watch out for that chicken hawk, you know, or maybe Ralph =
Rooster.
:-) Oops - that's a grey area.
Nah.=20
=20
I told the Penpal once that her thigh (she was sitting in a short skirt =
at the time) looked like a chicken leg. Even though I didn't mean =
anything bad by it, it may have been a mistake, as unlike Gabriel =
Orgrease, I never scored and she ultimately became a dyke. Because you =
told her she had chicken thighs? I always thought there were other =
reasons how jumping the fence.=20
=20
Einstein
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E7C.63DF07A4
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 5:43=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] Not physics question, biology =
question...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D095113521-09042004>Ahhh. And here I thought maybe you =
were just=20
pulling Foghorn's leg - he's gotta watch out for that chicken hawk, =
you=20
know, or maybe Ralph Rooster.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D095113521-09042004>:-) Oops - that's a grey=20
area.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Nah. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#400040><STRONG>I told the Penpal once that her =
thigh (she=20
was sitting in a short skirt at the time) looked like a chicken =
leg. =20
Even though I didn't mean anything bad by it, it may have been a =
mistake, as=20
unlike Gabriel Orgrease, I never scored and she ultimately became a=20
dyke.</STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D589344721-09042004> <FONT face=3DArial><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040> <FONT color=3D#ff0000>Because you told her she =
had chicken=20
thighs? I always tho</FONT></FONT></STRONG></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial>ught there were other =
reasons how=20
jumping the fence.</FONT></STRONG> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040>Einstein</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E7C.63DF07A4--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:53:12 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3-161177012
--Apple-Mail-3-161177012
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
You assume too much. I am providing thoughts to a colleague, trying to=20=
be of assistance, this is no exercise in capitalism. This is the=20
responsibility, the burden and the joy of having been around the block=20=
enough times to have a pretty good idea of where the uneven sidewalk is=20=
setting up its ambush, (if not where the piano movers are about to=20
loose their footing and drop the baby grand on your head).
So? How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail and=20
the spindles? What are the challenges?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 4:39 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:33:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> Yes, and no.=A0 There is a real problem with a real newel post in need =
of
> repair, and a real person with real responsibilities.=A0 The question =
is
> mine, because I was uncomfortable with the alternatives that do not
> include dissassembly.=A0 But, the other party is uncomfortable with =
the
> disassembly.=A0 The discomforts are real and reasonable.
> John,
> =A0
> Take it apart and fix it properly once and for all.=A0 Tell him you=20
> won't do it unless you can do it right.
> =A0
> The alternative is that the owner will have to pay=A0somebody=A0else=A0t=
o do=20
> a half-assed job now, =A0and then pay you=A0to do it right after it=20
> fails.=A0 In the end, he'll have had to have his stair torn apart =
twice,=20
> and pay for doing it twice,=A0instead of once.=A0
> =A0
> Tell him Ralph said so.=A0 That should do the trick.
> =A0
> Ralph
--Apple-Mail-3-161177012
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
charset=ISO-8859-1
You assume too much. I am providing thoughts to a colleague, trying
to be of assistance, this is no exercise in capitalism. This is the
responsibility, the burden and the joy of having been around the block
enough times to have a pretty good idea of where the uneven sidewalk
is setting up its ambush, (if not where the piano movers are about to
loose their footing and drop the baby grand on your head). =20
So? How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail and
the spindles? What are the challenges?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 4:39 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>In a message
dated 4/9/2004 5:33:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>Yes, and no.=A0 There is
a real problem with a real newel post in need of =
</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>repair, and a real
person with real responsibilities.=A0 The question is =
</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>mine, because I was
uncomfortable with the alternatives that do =
not</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller> include dissassembly.=A0
But, the other party is uncomfortable with =
the</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller> disassembly.=A0 The
discomforts are real and reasonable.</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>John,</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Take
it apart and fix it properly once and for all.=A0 Tell him you won't do
it unless you can do it =
right.</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>The
alternative is that the owner will have to pay=A0somebody=A0else=A0to do =
a
half-assed job now, =A0and then pay you=A0to do it right after it =
fails.=A0
In the end, he'll have had to have his stair torn apart twice, and pay
for doing it twice,=A0instead of =
once.=A0</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>
=
</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</para=
m><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Tell
him Ralph said so.=A0 That should do the =
trick.</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Ralph</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
</excerpt>=
--Apple-Mail-3-161177012--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:53:29 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Not physics question, biology question...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081551209"
-------------------------------1081551209
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:49:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Nah.
I told the Penpal once that her thigh (she was sitting in a short skirt at
the time) looked like a chicken leg. Even though I didn't mean anything bad by
it, it may have been a mistake, as unlike Gabriel Orgrease, I never scored and
she ultimately became a dyke. Because you told her she had chicken thighs?
I always thought there were other reasons how jumping the fence.
Nah, at least I don't think so.
I think she just liked girls (and other boys) better. Besides, the, shall we
say, change of heart didn't happen for a long time (15 years, maybe) after
the chicken legs comment. Now I get to hear about how she considers herself the
luckiest girl in the whole world when she wakes up in the morning with her,
uh, associate.
I better stop before I lose MY appetite.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081551209
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:49:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pssisd@RI=
T.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040 size=3D2>Nah. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nb=
sp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#400040><STRONG>I told the Penpal once tha=
t her thigh (she was sitting in a short skirt at the time) looked like a chi=
cken leg. Even though I didn't mean anything bad by it, it may have be=
en a mistake, as unlike Gabriel Orgrease, I never scored and she ultimately=20=
became a dyke.</STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff><=
SPAN class=3D589344721-09042004> <FONT face=3DArial><STRONG><FONT color=
=3D#400040> <FONT color=3D#ff0000>Because you told her she had chicken=
thighs? I always tho</FONT></FONT></STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#ff00=
00><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial>ught there were other reasons how jumping=
the fence.</FONT></STRONG> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Nah, at least I don't <U>think</U> s=
o. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I think she just liked girls (and other b=
oys) better. Besides, the, shall we say, change of heart did=
n't happen for a long time (15 years, maybe) after the chicken legs comment.=
Now I get to hear about how she considers herself the luckiest g=
irl in the whole world when she wakes up in the morning with her, uh, associ=
ate.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I better stop before I lose MY appetite.<=
/FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG> </DIV></BODY><=
/HTML>
-------------------------------1081551209--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:01:11 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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-------------------------------1081551671
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
So? How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail and
the spindles? What are the challenges?
Spindles shouldn't be too bad; you pry the nosings off the stringers, and
then have to worry about whether the tops of the balusters are nailed in, in
addition to being set into holes on the underside of the handrail. The dovetails
in the bottom of the balusters will probably have been nailed in place. I
don't know that there's any avoiding splitting some of the tops of the nailed
balusters, so you'll have to do it carefully and then reglue them. Then you
gotta take the handrail off the newels, and that joint may be nailed or bolted
together, so be real careful. Once you get the handrails off (they can be held
with some sort of weird bolt with nuts at both ends, so you may want to do some
strategic paint stripping at joint lines before hand), then you gotta figure
out how to get the newel off whatever floor joists it's attached to (probably
bolted), without (preferably) destroying the finish and subfloors.
Then all you gotta do is put it back together. There must be an Old House
Journal article on this somewhere--- and OLD one, not from the current
advertiser.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081551671
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncalla=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>So? How difficult is it to disassemble a=
newel post, stair rail and <BR>the spindles? What are the challenges?=
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Spindles shouldn't be too bad; you p=
ry the nosings off the stringers, and then have to worry about whether the t=
ops of the balusters are nailed in, in addition to being set into holes on t=
he underside of the handrail. The dovetails in the bottom of the balus=
ters will probably have been nailed in place. I don't know that t=
here's any avoiding splitting some of the tops of the nailed balusters, so y=
ou'll have to do it carefully and then reglue them. Then you gotta tak=
e the handrail off the newels, and that joint may be nailed or bolted togeth=
er, so be real careful. Once you get the handrails off (they can be he=
ld with some sort of weird bolt with nuts at both ends, so you may want=
to do some strategic paint stripping at joint lines before hand), then you=20=
gotta figure out how to get the newel off whatever floor joists it's attache=
d to (probably bolted), without (preferably) destroying the finish and subfl=
oors. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Then all you gotta do is put it back toge=
ther. There must be an Old House Journal article on this somewhere---=20=
and OLD one, not from the current advertiser.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081551671--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:59:51 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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--Apple-Mail-4-168776461
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charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
This sounds reasonable Ralph, but you are an Archeeeeetect. Can we get=20=
a Carpenter to confirm?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 6:01 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> So?=A0 How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail and
> the spindles?=A0 What are the challenges?
> Spindles shouldn't be too bad; you=A0pry the nosings off the =
stringers,=20
> and then have to worry about whether the tops of the balusters are=20
> nailed in, in addition to being set into holes on the underside of the=20=
> handrail.=A0 The dovetails in the bottom of the balusters will =
probably=20
> have been nailed in place.=A0=A0I don't know that there's any avoiding=20=
> splitting some of the tops of the nailed balusters, so you'll have to=20=
> do it carefully and then reglue them.=A0 Then you gotta take the=20
> handrail off the newels, and that joint may be nailed or bolted=20
> together, so be real careful.=A0 Once you get the handrails off (they=20=
> can be held with some sort of weird=A0bolt with nuts at both ends, so=20=
> you may want to do some strategic paint stripping at joint lines=20
> before hand), then you gotta figure out how to get the newel off=20
> whatever floor joists it's attached to (probably bolted), without=20
> (preferably) destroying the finish and subfloors.=A0=A0
> =A0
> Then all you gotta do is put it back together.=A0 There must be an Old=20=
> House Journal article on this somewhere--- and OLD one, not from the=20=
> current advertiser.
> =A0
> Ralph
--Apple-Mail-4-168776461
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This sounds reasonable Ralph, but you are an Archeeeeetect. Can we
get a Carpenter to confirm?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 6:01 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>In a message
dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>So?=A0 How difficult is
it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail =
and</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller> the spindles?=A0 What
are the challenges?</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Spindles
shouldn't be too bad; you=A0pry the nosings off the stringers, and then
have to worry about whether the tops of the balusters are nailed in,
in addition to being set into holes on the underside of the handrail.=A0
The dovetails in the bottom of the balusters will probably have been
nailed in place.=A0=A0I don't know that there's any avoiding splitting
some of the tops of the nailed balusters, so you'll have to do it
carefully and then reglue them.=A0 Then you gotta take the handrail off
the newels, and that joint may be nailed or bolted together, so be
real careful.=A0 Once you get the handrails off (they can be held with
some sort of weird=A0bolt with nuts at both ends, so you may want to do
some strategic paint stripping at joint lines before hand), then you
gotta figure out how to get the newel off whatever floor joists it's
attached to (probably bolted), without (preferably) destroying the
finish and subfloors.=A0=A0</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>
=
</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</para=
m><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Then
all you gotta do is put it back together.=A0 There must be an Old House
Journal article on this somewhere--- and OLD one, not from the current
advertiser.</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Ralph</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
</excerpt>=
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:33:05 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Aren't there a bunch of you guys who live and/or work within a few miles of
that building? If so why not take a hike on down there and look at that
wall yourselves and see if it is being held together with smudges or what?
Don't get too close though because I think 1915 smudges are about worn out
by now and the wall may well come tumbling into the street.
Some people would expect this house to fall down if they felt it shake
every time a big truck goes by but it hasn't yet and it's been here longer
than big trucks have. Ruth
At 2:48 PM -0400 4/9/04, [log in to unmask] wrote:
In a message dated 4/9/04 12:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I am tempted to call them tie bars.
Resist temptation! Unless you can use them to hold your necktie flat to
your shirt front without strangling yourself. I've always considered tie
bars to be longer versions of tie clasps. They go best with the wide
painted ties from the 40's.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:57:35 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In general, I've found that a mobile newel requires fixing (on many levels).
Disassembly permits you to fully determine the issues, and allows real
remedial work to the components. Also, when I disassembled mine upstate I found under
the newel three indian head pennies and a buffalo nickel. Well worth the
effort.
Twybil
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>In general, I've found that a mobile newel requires fixing (on many lev=
els). Disassembly permits you to fully determine the issues, and allows real=
remedial work to the components. Also, when I disassembled mine upstate I f=
ound under the newel three indian head pennies and a buffalo nickel. Well wo=
rth the effort.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Twybil</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081562255--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:00:05 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:40:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
and then pay you to do it right after it fails.
If, in fact, it is possible to "do" it right after the first guy, who should
know better, gets through with it. (I'm envisioning the "bracket angle
repair", the 1" through-bolt, etc. God help us.
Tw.
-------------------------------1081562405
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:40:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, RLWALTR@A=
OL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#400040 size=3D2><STRONG>and then pay=20=
you to do it right after it fails.</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>If, in fact, it is possible to "do" it right after the first guy, who s=
hould know better, gets through with it. (I'm envisioning the "bracket angle=
repair", the 1" through-bolt, etc. God help us.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tw. </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081562405--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:05:38 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"? IT'S A GAY BAR FOR HABERDASHERS.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/9/04 9:38:31 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
Aren't there a bunch of you guys who live and/or work within a few miles of
that building? If so why not take a hike on down there and look at that
wall yourselves and see if it is being held together with smudges or what?
Ruth, I wish you would leave this matter to trained professionals, who are
equipped to deal with tense situations like this. The question posed was not
"what is there now" but rather "what was there at the time, that look like
smudges in the old photograph". I, for one, wish you would pay closer attention
to the tight, reasoned writing in the posts ... like, say, Ralph's.
Sincerely, Should I Buy Organic Eggs to Dye For Easter?
-------------------------------1081562738
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/04 9:38:31 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Aren't there a bunch of you guys who live and/=
or work within a few miles of<BR>that building? If so why not take a h=
ike on down there and look at that<BR>wall yourselves and see if it is being=
held together with smudges or what?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Ruth, I wish you would leave this matter to trained professionals, who=20=
are equipped to deal with tense situations like this. The question pos=
ed was not "what is there now" but rather "what was there at the time, that=20=
look like smudges in the old photograph". I, for one, wish you w=
ould pay closer attention to the tight, reasoned writing in the posts ... li=
ke, say, Ralph's.  =
; Sincerely, Should I Buy Organic Eggs to Dye For Easter?=20=
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081562738--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:16:16 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081563376"
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 8:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
This sounds reasonable Ralph, but you are an Archeeeeetect. Can we get
a Carpenter to confirm?
What do you want, John, a goddam guarantee? So email John Leeke directly, if
you don't want me to bullshit you!
Love (but not in a Greek way),
Ralph
-------------------------------1081563376
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 8:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncalla=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>This sounds reasonable Ralph, but you are an A=
rcheeeeetect. Can we get <BR>a Carpenter to confirm?</FONT></BLOCKQUOT=
E></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>What do you want, John, a goddam guarante=
e? So email John Leeke directly, if you don't want me to bullshit you!=
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Love (but not in a Greek way),</FONT></ST=
RONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081563376--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:20:47 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"? What is a fern bar? What's a henway?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081563647"
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Aren't there a bunch of you guys who live and/or work within a few miles of
that building? If so why not take a hike on down there and look at that
wall yourselves and see if it is being held together with smudges or what?
Ruth, you are no goddam fun at all. Why would we want to get off our fat asses
and find out the truth when we could pontificate and speculate all day long
about something we've never seen without having to leave our chairs? Especially
if we can con Chriftopher into posting his smudgy photo,. and pontificate and
speculate and bullshit some more.
Don't get too close though because I think 1915 smudges are about worn out
by now and the wall may well come tumbling into the street. The 1915 smudges
are probably all that's left.
Some people would expect this house to fall down if they felt it shake
every time a big truck goes by but it hasn't yet and it's been here longer
than big trucks have. God willing, your house will be there after the big
trucks are gone, too. Just like the cockaroaches. Ruth Ralph
-------------------------------1081563647
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 9:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mrgjb@SOV=
ER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Aren't there a bunch of you guys who live and/=
or work within a few miles of<BR>that building? If so why not take a h=
ike on down there and look at that<BR>wall yourselves and see if it is being=
held together with smudges or what? <STRONG>Ruth, you are no goddam fun at=20=
all. Why would we want to get off our fat asses and find out the truth=
when we could pontificate and speculate all day long about something we've=20=
never seen without having to leave our chairs? Especially if we can co=
n Chriftopher into posting his smudgy photo,. and pontificate and speculate=20=
and bullshit some more.</STRONG><BR>Don't get too close though because I thi=
nk 1915 smudges are about worn out<BR>by now and the wall may well come tumb=
ling into the street. <STRONG>The 1915 smudges are probably all that's=
left.</STRONG><BR><BR>Some people would expect this house to fall down if t=
hey felt it shake<BR>every time a big truck goes by but it hasn't yet and it=
's been here longer<BR>than big trucks have. <STRONG>God willing, your=20=
house will be there after the big trucks are gone, too. Just like the=20=
cockaroaches. </STRONG> Ruth <STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081563647--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:25:52 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 10:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
If, in fact, it is possible to "do" it right after the first guy, who should
know better, gets through with it. (I'm envisioning the "bracket angle
repair", the 1" through-bolt, etc. God help us.
Tw.
Twybil,
Yeah, but he wouldn't listen to me when I told him. So let God punish him,
or his cheap-ass friend, or the whole two of 'em, or whoever the hell this is.
This way, they'll have screwed it up trying to do it on the cheap, and when
it's a disaster, they'll blame themselves for not listening to us, and we will
look good. Whereas if they did listen to us, and screwed it up while
following our instructions, somehow they'd twist it into being our fault. Make that
MY fault.
Sign me,
CYA
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 10:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Twybil@A=
OL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If, in fact, it is possible to "do" it righ=
t after the first guy, who should know better, gets through with it. (I'm en=
visioning the "bracket angle repair", the 1" through-bolt, etc. God help us.=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tw. </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Twybil,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Yeah, but he wouldn't listen to me when <=
U>I</U> told him. So let God punish him, or his cheap-ass friend, or t=
he whole two of 'em, or whoever the hell this is.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>This way, they'll have screwed it up tryi=
ng to do it on the cheap, and when it's a disaster, they'll blame themselves=
for not listening to us, and we will look good. Whereas if they <U>di=
d</U> listen to us, and screwed it up while following our instructions,=
somehow they'd twist it into being our fault. Make that MY fault=
.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Sign me, </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>CYA</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081563952--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:32:19 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What is a "tie bar"? IT'S A GAY BAR FOR HABERDASHERS.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 10:06:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ruth, I wish you would leave this matter to trained professionals, who are
equipped to deal with tense situations like this. That's excellent advice, but
I somehow have a feeling that he's making fun of me, and whoever else was dumb
enough to respond to his e-trap. The question posed was not "what is there
now" but rather "what was there at the time, that look like smudges in the old
photograph". Yes, and that's why I asked you to give us a pic, but you'd rather
lure us into your trap and then make fun of us unmercifully forever. I, for
one, wish you would pay closer attention to the tight, reasoned writing in the
posts ... like, say, Ralph's. That's even better advice, Ruth.
Sincerely, Should I Buy Organic Eggs to Dye For Easter? Yes, and sit on them.
The name of my new book?
The Yellow River,
by I. P. Daley
Well, that would be organic dye for your organic eggs, wouldn't it?
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 10:06:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ruth, I wish you would leave this matter to=
trained professionals, who are equipped to deal with tense situations like=20=
this. <STRONG>That's excellent advice, but I somehow have a feeli=
ng that he's making fun of me, and whoever else was dumb enough to respond t=
o his e-trap. </STRONG>The question posed was not "what is there now" but ra=
ther "what was there at the time, that look like smudges in the old photogra=
ph". <STRONG>Yes, and that's why I asked you to give us a pic, but=
you'd rather lure us into your trap and then make fun of us unmercifully fo=
rever.</STRONG> I, for one, wish you would pay closer attention to the=
tight, reasoned writing in the posts ... like, say, Ralph's. &nb=
sp; <STRONG>That's even <U>better</U> advice, Ruth.</STRONG>  =
; Sincerely, Should I Buy Organic=20=
Eggs to Dye For Easter? <STRONG>Yes, and sit on them.</STRONG></FONT></DIV><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>The name of my new book?</FONT></STRONG><=
/DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040><U>The Yellow River</U>,</FONT></STRONG><=
/DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>by I. P. Daley</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Well, that would be organic dye for your=20=
organic eggs, wouldn't it?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081564339--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:28:45 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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Now now Ralph. Calm down. You are sooooo sensitive! Its a wonder Mrs=20=
Ralph doesn't spend all her free time comforting you.
If Leeke, or one of the other hammer swinging types doesn't jump in, I=20=
will go to them directly. However, it may comfort you to know that=20
your thinking has value. It confirmed that the two of us were=20
reasoning similarly. But, these hands have not done this work. If=20
yours have, then you have the advantage upon me.
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 9:16 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 8:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> This sounds reasonable Ralph, but you are an Archeeeeetect.=A0 Can we =
get
> a Carpenter to confirm?
> What do you want, John, a goddam guarantee?=A0 So email John Leeke=20
> directly, if you don't want me to bullshit you!
> =A0
> Love (but not in a Greek way),
> Ralph
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Now now Ralph. Calm down. You are sooooo sensitive! Its a wonder
Mrs Ralph doesn't spend all her free time comforting you. =20
If Leeke, or one of the other hammer swinging types doesn't jump in, I
will go to them directly. However, it may comfort you to know that
your thinking has value. It confirmed that the two of us were
reasoning similarly. But, these hands have not done this work. If
yours have, then you have the advantage upon me.
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 9:16 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>In a message
dated 4/9/2004 8:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>This sounds reasonable
Ralph, but you are an Archeeeeetect.=A0 Can we =
get</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller> a Carpenter to =
confirm?</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>What
do you want, John, a goddam guarantee?=A0 So email John Leeke directly,
if you don't want me to bullshit =
you!</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Love
(but not in a Greek way),</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Ralph</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
</excerpt>=
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:14:06 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
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In a message dated 4/9/2004 11:29:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Now now Ralph. Calm down. You are sooooo sensitive! Fuckin' A right I am,
goddammit. Its a wonder Mrs Ralph doesn't spend all her free time comforting
you. Fat chance of THAT.
If Leeke, or one of the other hammer swinging types doesn't jump in, I
will go to them directly. However, it may comfort you to know that
your thinking has value. I feel SO much better already. It confirmed that the
two of us were reasoning similarly. Obviously, and obviously we were right.
But, these hands have not done this work. And smart hands they are. So far,
anyway. If yours have, then you have the advantage upon me. I did everything
but remove the newel; mine (in Jersey City, at least) was nice and firm. The
balusters there were easy and as described, and the handrail was made up of
short sections nailed into the heavy main newel and into lesser (4x4) newels
where the stair turned. In Summit, however, the little Ralphs and various other
little bastards over the years have been jumping up and down the stairs and
swinging from and leaning on the handrail and newel, which has quite a long
cantilever up from the floor, and I've been afraid to attempt anything beyond
yelling at the kids. My handrails here are also nailed into intermediate posts,
thank God.
However, long continuous handrails with hairpin turns, at least the ones that
I have seen, are held together (at joints between sections of rail) with
double-ended threaded rods and weird nuts that require an offset screwdriver (or
something similar) to tighten up the butt joint between sections of handrail.
I hope yours are not of this type, but if they are, for Chrissakes don't take
the railing out altogether when you mess with the newel. I would open up the
ceiling beneath the newel, and pray that the newel is anchored to a floor
joist or a carriage piece or something and that you can rebolt the newel from
below, and avoid messing up the finish floor.
Can I go the hell to bed now? Thank you.
Ralph
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f">
<DIV>In a message dated 4/9/2004 11:29:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncall=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Now now Ralph. Calm down. You are=20=
sooooo sensitive! <STRONG>Fuckin' A right I am, goddammit. </STRONG>&nb=
sp;Its a wonder Mrs Ralph doesn't spend all her free time comforting you. <S=
TRONG>Fat chance of THAT.</STRONG><BR><BR>If Leeke, or one of the other hamm=
er swinging types doesn't jump in, I <BR>will go to them directly. How=
ever, it may comfort you to know that <BR>your thinking has value. <STR=
ONG>I feel SO much better already.</STRONG> It confirmed that the two o=
f us were reasoning similarly. <STRONG>Obviously, and obviously we were=
right.</STRONG> But, these hands have not done this work. <STRONG>And smart=
hands they are. So far, anyway. </STRONG> If yours h=
ave, then you have the advantage upon me. <STRONG>I did everything but remov=
e the newel; mine (in Jersey City, at least) was nice and firm. The baluster=
s there were easy and as described, and the handrail was made up of sho=
rt sections nailed into the heavy main newel and into lesser (4x4)=
newels where the stair turned. In Summit, however, the little Ralphs=20=
and various other little bastards over the years have been jumping up=20=
and down the stairs and swinging from and leaning on the handrail and newel,=
which has quite a long cantilever up from the floor, and I've been afraid t=
o attempt anything beyond yelling at the kids. My handrails here are a=
lso nailed into intermediate posts, thank God. </STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><STRONG>However, long continuous handrails with=
hairpin turns, at least the ones that I have seen, are held=20=
together (at joints between sections of rail) with double-end=
ed threaded rods and weird nuts that require an offset screwdriver (or somet=
hing similar) to tighten up the butt joint between sections of handrail.&nbs=
p; I hope yours are not of this type, but if they are, for Chrissakes don't=20=
take the railing out altogether when you mess with the newel. I=20=
would open up the ceiling beneath the newel, and pray that the newel is anch=
ored to a floor joist or a carriage piece or something and that you can rebo=
lt the newel from below, and avoid messing up the finish floor.</STRONG></FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Can I go the hell to bed now? =20=
Thank you.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081570446--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:24:21 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ralph-
Right Arm!
Twy.
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Ralph-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Right Arm!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Twy.</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081596261--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:06:27 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John, If you send my your original question I will send it to the Old
House list I'm on and see what I can glean from there. Somebody must be on
both lists because that's where I learned about this list, and I'm so glad
I did, it provides the comic relief I need from Alzheimer's caregiving.
Ruth
At 6:59 PM -0500 4/9/04, John Callan wrote:
This sounds reasonable Ralph, but you are an Archeeeeetect. Can we get a
Carpenter to confirm?
-jc
On Apr 9, 2004, at 6:01 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
So? How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail and
the spindles? What are the challenges?
Spindles shouldn't be too bad; you pry the nosings off the stringers, and
then have to worry about whether the tops of the balusters are nailed in,
in addition to being set into holes on the underside of the handrail. The
dovetails in the bottom of the balusters will probably have been nailed in
place. I don't know that there's any avoiding splitting some of the tops
of the nailed balusters, so you'll have to do it carefully and then reglue
them. Then you gotta take the handrail off the newels, and that joint may
be nailed or bolted together, so be real careful. Once you get the
handrails off (they can be held with some sort of weird bolt with nuts at
both ends, so you may want to do some strategic paint stripping at joint
lines before hand), then you gotta figure out how to get the newel off
whatever floor joists it's attached to (probably bolted), without
(preferably) destroying the finish and subfloors.
Then all you gotta do is put it back together. There must be an Old House
Journal article on this somewhere--- and OLD one, not from the current
advertiser.
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:36:22 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <a04310173bc9d3ee0716a@[216.114.165.131]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
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Ruth,
Here's the original question:
Over time, the key holes of a violin widen, and the keys narrow.
Eventually there is no more room on the taper of the key to fill the
hole and hold the string in place through friction. At this point, a
violin maker drills out the hole, plugs it, drills the plug, makes a
new key and installs it. Good to go for another generation...or not,
depending on the frequency of the fiddling.
Is this not like a newel post? Or a spindle? How difficult is it to
take a stair rail apart and remake the worn joints?
Thanks,
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 1:06 AM, Ruth Barton wrote:
> John, If you send my your original question I will send it to the Old
> House list I'm on and see what I can glean from there. Somebody must
> be on
> both lists because that's where I learned about this list, and I'm so
> glad
> I did, it provides the comic relief I need from Alzheimer's caregiving.
> Ruth
>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:35 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hip hop
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_K1TqtDOPW0sp1e6QFfSoXQ)"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_K1TqtDOPW0sp1e6QFfSoXQ)
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Michael,
The only hippity hop around here these days is the uncensored Afroman
and Eminem. It is however, DaDa-ist.
Sign me
Man Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Hip hop
Its starting; I just sat down to do some paper work and a little figure
went hop hop hop down the hall past my door . Fearing a splinter or a
stub toe I went to investigate and caught her on the return trip with
her old faded bunny under arm hopping and singing a confused yet
spirited
(key of G)
"Here comes Peter Cotton tail hopping down the bunny trail ...Hippity
hop Easter's on its way"
not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in and quickly stubbed his
toe......
Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to the experts.....Happy
Easter /passover Pyrate
--Boundary_(ID_K1TqtDOPW0sp1e6QFfSoXQ)
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">
<DIV><SPAN class=718552513-10042004>Michael,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718552513-10042004>The only hippity hop around here these days
is the uncensored Afroman and Eminem. It is however,
DaDa-ist.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718552513-10042004>Sign me</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718552513-10042004>Man Ray</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an orifice,
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 9:45
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [BP] Hip hop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Its starting; I just sat down to do some paper work and a little figure
went hop hop hop down the hall past my door . Fearing a splinter or a
stub toe I went to investigate and caught her on the return trip with her
old faded bunny under arm hopping and singing a confused yet
spirited </DIV>
<DIV> (key of G) </DIV>
<DIV>"Here comes Peter Cotton tail hopping down the bunny trail ...Hippity hop
Easter's on its way" </DIV>
<DIV>not wanting to be left out Da-Da joined in and quickly stubbed his
toe......</DIV>
<DIV>Moral to the story : leave the hipity hop to the experts.....Happy Easter
/passover Pyrate </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_K1TqtDOPW0sp1e6QFfSoXQ)--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:11:17 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> So? How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail
> and the spindles? What are the challenges?
>
JC,
Disassembly is fairly easy. Doing such these days on a porch at the Van
Cortlandt House... I'll tell you about reassembly when it happens.
Woodwork it is. Challenge in not getting splinters in the hand or
stepping on rusty nails. Wear gloves and de-nail or hammer over nails
religiously.
Doing such just recently on a stone rail & newel post at another project
it worked out just fine. We had fun building a frame from 4 x 4 to use
to lift the 300-400 lb. top rail without dropping it.
The rail had been knocked out of place when some movie folks dropped a
piano on it. When we put it back together I told them next time to warn
the movie folks they would break their piano.
I seem to spend more time thinking about a job than I do actually doing
it. A guy I know has some columns in his basement and I've just about
got myself thunk out to tell him that we can do it... the problem is not
the columns, the problem is not making a goddamn mess of dust & crap &
getting rid of the debris legal like. The problem is figuring out how to
park the vehicle.
For anyone interested after wandering around on Friday in Easthampton
through three cemetaries I got smarter and found the right one and after
wandering around all of it eventually I did find the grave of Joseph
Heller. I was mostly on a mission for a friend, but I like hunting for
stones just the same. Photos available on request.
][<
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:44:55 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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Ken,
Given that this is a significant staircase in a significant building,
what kind of experience and qualifications would be needed for the
person supervising this work? How many helpers and what are their
qualifications? What are the risks that historic material will be
damaged beyond repair?
Is this something that a typical (if there is such a thing) historic
site maintenance crew can handle if only the curators trusted the
skills of the reluctantly verbal members of our community?
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 9:11 AM, Gabriel Orgrease wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 4/9/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>> So? How difficult is it to disassemble a newel post, stair rail
>> and the spindles? What are the challenges?
>>
> JC,
>
> Disassembly is fairly easy. Doing such these days on a porch at the Van
> Cortlandt House... I'll tell you about reassembly when it happens.
> Woodwork it is. Challenge in not getting splinters in the hand or
> stepping on rusty nails. Wear gloves and de-nail or hammer over nails
> religiously.
>
> Doing such just recently on a stone rail & newel post at another
> project
> it worked out just fine. We had fun building a frame from 4 x 4 to use
> to lift the 300-400 lb. top rail without dropping it.
> The rail had been knocked out of place when some movie folks dropped a
> piano on it. When we put it back together I told them next time to warn
> the movie folks they would break their piano.
>
> I seem to spend more time thinking about a job than I do actually doing
> it. A guy I know has some columns in his basement and I've just about
> got myself thunk out to tell him that we can do it... the problem is
> not
> the columns, the problem is not making a goddamn mess of dust & crap &
> getting rid of the debris legal like. The problem is figuring out how
> to
> park the vehicle.
>
> For anyone interested after wandering around on Friday in Easthampton
> through three cemetaries I got smarter and found the right one and
> after
> wandering around all of it eventually I did find the grave of Joseph
> Heller. I was mostly on a mission for a friend, but I like hunting for
> stones just the same. Photos available on request.
>
> ][<
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:10:05 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post while Rome Burns
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1081609805"
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 10:12:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Wear gloves and de-nail or hammer over nails religiously.
John,
DON'T hammer over any nails. Only a mason (or a member of one of the other
rough and therefore lesser trades) would do such a thing. Take the damn nails
out, and do it carefully. Using the correct tools held in your hands, not
your feet. Be a mechanic, for God's sake.
As for re-making the joints in your stair rail, a part of your question I had
missed initially, you could be in DEEP shit with that, and may well be better
off leaving it alone unless there is real danger of the thing collapsing
entirely.
My stairway (consisting of 5 straight runs at right angles to each other,
separated by landings) has settled, and the walls around it have bowed outwards,
so the joints between handrail and posts which were PRESUMABLY built tight
when it was all new 120 years ago have opened up, as well as the ends of the
treads and risers which should've been set into rabbets in the wall-mounted
stringers (or are those called housings?). Tightening up the rail-to-post joints
and the tread-to housing joints may not be possible (here, at least) without
jacking up and/or disassembling the entire stair, and even then the deflection of
the walls may well make it impossible to reassemble the stair correctly
without major replacement of parts. THAT assumes that the stair was built right in
the first place, which is probably not the case, given the settlement and the
bow in the floor of my office-- these idiots couldn't even frame a floor
properly. In the meantime, the carpet holds the stair together from above, and the
plaster from below, with held from residual overlaps somewhere in the
woodwork. However, the stairway DID carry 2 or 3 men carrying a claw-foot cast iron
bathtub about 15 years ago, so maybe it's not so fragile despite it's creaks
and visible movement when walked on.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081609805
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 10:12:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, orgreas=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Wear gloves and de-nail or hammer over nails r=
eligiously.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>John, </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>DON'T hammer over any nails. Only a=
mason (or a member of one of the other rough and therefore lesser=
trades) would do such a thing. Take the damn nails out, and do it car=
efully. Using the correct tools held in your hands, not your feet. Be=20=
a <U>mechanic</U>, for God's sake.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>As for re-making the joints in your stair=
rail, a part of your question I had missed initially, you could be in=20=
DEEP shit with that, and may well be better off leaving it alone unless ther=
e is real danger of the thing collapsing entirely. </FONT></STRONG></DI=
V>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>My stairway (consisting of 5 st=
raight runs at right angles to each other, separated by landings) has s=
ettled, and the walls around it have bowed outwards, so the joints between h=
andrail and posts which were PRESUMABLY built tight when it was all new 120=20=
years ago have opened up, as well as the ends of the treads and risers which=
should've been set into rabbets in the wall-mounted stringers (or are those=
called housings?). Tightening up the rail-to-post joints and the=
tread-to housing joints may not be possible (here, at least) without j=
acking up and/or disassembling the entire stair, and even then the defl=
ection of the walls may well make it impossible to reassemble the stair corr=
ectly without major replacement of parts. THAT assumes that the s=
tair was built right in the first place, which is probably not the case, giv=
en the settlement and the bow in the floor of my office-- these idiots=20=
couldn't even frame a floor properly. In the meantime, the carpet holds=
the stair together from above, and the plaster from below, with held from r=
esidual overlaps somewhere in the woodwork. However, the stairway DID=20=
carry 2 or 3 men carrying a claw-foot cast iron bathtub about 15 years ago,=20=
so maybe it's not so fragile despite it's creaks and visible movement w=
hen walked on. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081609805--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:20:01 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Spouseless in summit
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081610401"
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Ralph read about the above condition;; if you need to take up with Pyrates on
the Mississippi for a few days let me know Py
-------------------------------1081610401
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">Ralph read about the above condition;; if you need to take up with P=
yrates on the Mississippi for a few days let me know Py</BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081610401--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:36:45 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Spouseless in summit
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 11:20:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ralph read about the above condition;; if you need to take up with Pyrates on
the Mississippi for a few days let me know Py
Kind sir,
Thanks, but no thanks. Gotta keep going to work with the pirates on the
Hudson.
And then there's the one I live with (for the time being, anyway, sort of)
across the sagging stairs, on the Passaic River. We are actually about 1/2
mile from the Passaic River, and are closer to Salt Brook, but what the hell. No
known pirates on either one, anyway. Ever. Wouldn't a been worth the effort.
However, if you get a job in Hawaii, Pago Pago, or Papeete, there may be some
additional flexibility.
Warmest personal etc.,
Ralph
PS- Besides which, I shaved my beard. She didn't even notice.
-------------------------------1081611405
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 11:20:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MSGuild=
@AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ralph read about the above condition;=
; if you need to take up with Pyrates on the Mississippi for a few days=
let me know Py </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Kind sir,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Thanks, but no thanks. Gotta keep g=
oing to work with the pirates on the Hudson. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>And then there's the one I live with=
(for the time being, anyway, sort of) across the sagging stairs, on the Pas=
saic River. We are actually about 1/2 mile from the Passaic Rive=
r, and are closer to Salt Brook, but what the hell. No known pirates o=
n either one, anyway. Ever. Wouldn't a been worth the effort.</F=
ONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>However, if you get a job in Hawaii, =
;Pago Pago, or Papeete, there may be some additional flexibility.</FONT></ST=
RONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Warmest personal etc.,</FONT></STRONG></D=
IV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>PS- Besides which, I shaved my=
beard. She didn't even notice.</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081611405--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:14:00 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Spouseless in summit
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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I'm impressed! You must be under no supervision whatsoever!
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 10:36 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> Besides which,=A0I shaved my beard.=A0 She didn't even notice.=
--Apple-Mail-2-227225220
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
charset=ISO-8859-1
I'm impressed! You must be under no supervision whatsoever!
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 10:36 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
=
<excerpt><bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,404=
0</param><x-tad-smaller>Besides
which,=A0I shaved my beard.=A0 She didn't even =
notice.</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold></excerpt>=
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:17:28 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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John Callan wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Given that this is a significant staircase in a significant building,
> what kind of experience and qualifications would be needed for the
> person supervising this work? How many helpers and what are their
> qualifications? What are the risks that historic material will be
> damaged beyond repair?
>
> Is this something that a typical (if there is such a thing) historic
> site maintenance crew can handle if only the curators trusted the
> skills of the reluctantly verbal members of our community?
>
> -jc
Put it this way John... in both of the examples that I have been working
on in neither case would I give over the task to another mechanic than
myself. Let alone supervision while standing nearby watching, or far
away thinking. I would not want to stand there and supervise anyone but
the best, and I only know 1/2 of a person for that (and I think they
should be proud). In each case there are reasons for intimacy between
the supervision and execution within the confines of one brain and one
body that preclude division of labor. So, I guess the qualifications
start with needing a master mechanic with proven experience and an
ability to see 'outside' of the box to understand the nontangibles of
the project. As to # of helpers, seems to me as few as possible and only
enough that the master mechanic can keep control of the situation. No
naked dumb & bumbler allowed.
What you need to do is pick the right person to do the job, and so the
qualifications should I would think focus on just how to qualify the
master mechanic desired... and an oral and hands-on examination should
be considered on-site... interview whomever at the railing and ask them
what they think about it and how they would do it... go watch them do
work elsewhere and see how they flow... which brings up something I have
been contemplating which is the degree to which a mechanic is so tuned
into their work, the objects, and the materials that they are working
with that they talk dirty to them while working as in, "Baby, please
don't f'n do that! Here, here you go, there, yeah, that is where I want
you. Stay there now. Don't move. Yeah, that is nice." It is something of
a wake up call when the mechanic realizes the very nice middle-class
suburbanite docents are standing behind them to watch and listen the
whole time. We are talking engagement in the task and focus.
Have it in the specs that if you, or whomever, is not satisfied with the
interview scenario then somebody has to go back to scratch. You may try
qualification of 30 years experience rather than the paper-wash of 5
years? I don't know for sure. If you end up with an idiot you will know
it soon enough, if you end up with someone that knows what they are
doing you might not notice. Then, again, it depends on if you stand
around eves dropping.
In the case of the stone rail & newel it would take longer to explain
what needed to be done to lift it, which was 90% of the job, than it
took to actually do it. The work after that was easy enough but it could
still be messed up by a mechanic that did not take care, understand what
was going on, or why, and had no patience or experience. Too damned much
time is spent explaining WHY something has to be done in a particular
way and I'll be honest in saying that the minute I have to explain my
explanation then I might as well do it myself. The risk of damage to
historic fabric is too high for the communications process to interfere
with it. I say this considering that I have been involved in some fairly
complex management situations on projects.
In the case of the wooden stair it was not so much a problem of
disassembly as much as making sure the parts needed to be salvaged for
reconstruction were salvaged... meaning that the vital information was
not lost in the process. Photographs were taken, the process went slowly
step by step and the exploration of the structure occured concurrent
with the disassembly. When you begin adding on layers of supervision the
complications increase exponentially, not linear, and in a hands-off
approach the more details that are figured out in the beginning the less
opportunity for error in the end. But... the further intelligence is
stepped away from the hands-on aspect of the process the greater the
likelihood of damage to historic fabric. You need to figure out where on
the sliding scales you want the project to end up and what controls
there will be to monitor quality control and stop the process in time if
it is going in a bad direction. Me, right now, I am very much into
wanting direct and immediate control of the situation... if the job
allows stepping back a few notches no problem.
Every railing and newel combination is going to be a different situation
and require a different solution.
In answer to your last question... no. The reluctantly verbal members of
our community need to open their mouths and talk. If you cannot find a
way to get them to pre-verbalize their solutions, if not even to the
extent of getting them to wave their arms around to mimic good physical
form in work practice... then good luck. They should at least be able to
do this communication with you, or with assistance from a professional
supervisor and experienced coach (hint) to work with and evaluate the
existing work-skill resources. I don't know what typical is.
Sounds to me like you have a cost-benefit-risk analysis underway.
][<
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:21:50 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post while Rome Burns
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> *DON'T hammer over any nails. Only a mason (or a member of one of the
> other rough and therefore lesser trades) would do such a thing. Take
> the damn nails out, and do it carefully. Using the correct tools held
> in your hands, not your feet. Be a _mechanic_, for God's sake.*
Ralph,
If the wood is rotten and not to be salvaged and will be thrown away
then why in hell would anyone waste energy on denailing?
I can denail with the best of them and I take umbrage with your slight
against masons! We denail with our TEETH by GAWD!
Yuuck... reminds me of the time dismantling the Norwegian outhouse and
put a rusty spike through my foot.
][<en
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:41:38 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gorilla, My Love -- Milky Way Story for Rudy
MIME-version: 1.0
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Rudy & Pyrate have GOT to read this story. Google Toni Cade Bambara.
][<
Gorilla, My Love
by Toni Cade Bambara
That was the year Huna Bubba changed his name. Not a change up, but a
change back, since Jefferson Winston Vale was the name in the first
place. Which was news to me cause he'd been my Hunca Bubba my whole
lifetime, since I couldn't manage Uncle to save my life. So far as I was
concerned it was a change completely to somethin soundin very
geographical weatherlike to me, like somethin you'd find in a almanac.
Or somethin you'd run across when you sittin in the navigator seat with
a wet thumb on the map crinkly in your lap, watchin the roads and signs
so when Granddaddy Vale say "Which way, Scout," you got sense enough to
say take the next exit or take a left or whatever it is. Not that Scouts
my name. Just the name Granddaddy call whoever sittin in the navigator
seat. Which is usually me cause I don't feature sittin in the back with
the pecans. Now, you figure pecans all right to be sittin with. If you
thinks so, that's your business. But they dusty sometime and make you
cough. And they got a way of slidin around and dippin down sudden, lik
maybe a rat in the buckets. So if you scary like me, you sleep with the
lights on and blame it on Baby Jason and, so as not to wast good
electric, you study the maps. And that's how come I'm in the navigator
seat most times and get to be called Scout.
So Hunca Bubba in the back with the pecans and Baby Jason, and he in
love. And we got to hear all this stuff about this woman he in love with
and all. Which really ain't enough to keep the mind alive, though Baby
Jason got no better sense than to give his undivided attention and keep
grabbin at the photograph which is just a picture of some skinny woman
in a countrified dress with her hand shot up to her face like she shame
fore cameras. But there's a movie house in the background which I ax
about. Cause I am a movie-freak from way back, even though it do get me
in trouble sometime.
Like when me and Big Brood and Baby Jason was on our own last Easter and
couldn't go to the Dorset cause we'd seen all the Tree Stooges they was.
And the RKO Hamilton was cloased readying up for the Easter Pageant that
night. And the West End, the Regun and the Sunset was too far, less we
had grownups with us which we didn't. So we walk up Amsterdam Avenue to
the Washington and /Gorilla, My Love/ playin, they say, which suit me
just fine, though the "my love" part kinda drag Big Brood some. As for
Baby Jason, shoot, like Granddaddy say, he'd follow me into the fiery
furnace if I say come on. So we go in and get three bags of Havmore
potato chips which not only are the best potato chips but the best bags
for blowin up and bustin real loud so the matron come trottin down the
aisle with her chunky self, flashin that flashlight dead in your eye so
you can give her some lip, and if she answer back and you alread finish
seein the show anyway, why then you just turn the place out. Which I
love to do, no lie. With Baby Jason kickin at the seat in front, egging
me on, and Big Brood mumblin bour what fiercesome things we goin do.
Which means me. Like when the big boys come up on us talkin bout Lemme a
nickel. It's me that hide the money. Or when the bad boys in the park
take Big Brood's Spaudeen way form him. It's me that jump on they back
and fight awhile. And it's me that turns out the show if the matron get
too salty.
So the movie come on and right away it's this churchy music and clearly
not about no gorilla. Bout Jesus. And I am ready to kill, not cause I
got anything gainst Jesus. Just that when you fixed to watch a gorilla
picture you don't wanna get messed around with Sunday School stuff. So I
am mad. Besides we see this raggedy old brown film /King of Kings/ every
year and enough's enough. Grownups figure they can treat you just
anyhow. Which burns me up. There I am, my feet up and my Havmore potato
chips really salty and crispy and two jawbreakers in my lap and the
money safe in my shoe from the big boys, and here comes this Jesus
stuff. So we all go wild. Yellin, booin, stompin and carryin on. Really
to wake the man in the booth up there who musta went to sleep and put on
the wrong reels. But no, cause he holler down to shut up and then he
turn the sound up so we really gotta holler like crazy to even hear
ourselves good. And the matron ropes off the children section and
flashes her light all oer the place and we yell some more and some kids
slip under the rope and run up and down the aisle just to show it take
more than some dusty ole velvet rope to tie us down. And I'm flingin the
kid in front of me's popcorn. And Baby Jason kickin seats. And it's
really somethin. Then here come the big and bad matron, the one they let
out in case of emergency. And she totin that flashlight like she gonna
use it on somebody. This here the colored matron Brandy and her friends
call Thunderbuns. She do not play. She do not smile. So we shut up and
watch the simple ass picture.
Which is not so simple as it is stupid. Cause I realize that just about
anybody in my family is better than this god they always talkin about.
My daddy wouldn't stand for nobody treatin any of us that way. My mama
specially. And I can just see it now, Big Brood up there on the cross
talkin bout Forgive them Daddy cause they don't know what they doin. And
my Mama say Get on down from there you big fool, whatcha think this is,
playtime? And my Daddy yellin to Granddaddy to get him a ladder cause
Big Brood atin the fool, his mother side of the family showin up. And my
mama and her sister Daisy jumpin on them Romans beatin them with they
pocketbooks. And Hunca Bubba tellin them folks on they knewws they
better get out the way and go get some help or they goin to get trampled
on. And Granddaddy Vale sayin Leave the boy alone, if that's what he
wasnts to do with his life we ain't got nothin to say about it. Then
Aund Daisy givin him a tasteof that pocketbook, fussin bout what a damn
fool old man Granddaddy is. Then everybody jumpin in his chest like the
time Unle Clayton went in the army and come back with only one leg and
Granddaddy say somethin stupid about that's life. And by this time Big
Brood off the cross and in the park playin hadball or skully or
somethin. And the family in the kitchen throwin dishes at each other,
screamin bout if you hadn't done this I wouldn't had to do that. And me
in the parlor trying to do my arithmetic yellin Shut it off.
Which is what I was yellin all by myself which make me a sittin target
for Thunderbuns. But when I yell We want our money back, that gets
everybody in chorus. And the movie windin up with this heavenly cloud
music and the smart-ass up there in his hole in the wall turns up the
sound again to drown us out. Then there comes Bugs Bunny which we
already seen so we know we been had. No gorilla my nuthin. And Big Brood
say Awwww sheeet, we goin to see the manager and get our money back. And
I know from this we business. So I brush the potato chips out of my hair
which is where Baby Jason like to put em, and I march myself up the
aisle to deal with the manager who is a crook in the first place for
lyin out there sayin /Gorilla, My Love /playin. And I never did like the
man cause he oily and pasty at the same time like the bad guy in the
serial, the one that got a hideout behind a push-button bookcase and
play "Moonlight Sonata" with gloves on. I knock on the door and I am
furious. And I am alone, too. Cause Big Brood suddenly got to go bad
even though my mama told us boud goin in them nasty bathrooms. And I
hear him sigh like he disgusted when he get to the door and see only a
little kid there. And now I'm really furious cause I get so tired
grownups messin over kids just cause they little and can't take em to
court. What is it, he say to me like I lost my mittens or wet on myself
or am somebody's retarded child. When in reality I am the smartest kid
P.S. 186 ever had in its whole lifetime and you can ax anybody. Even
them teachers that don't like me cause I won't sing them Southern songs
or back off when they tell me my questions are out of order. And cause
my Mama come up there in a minute when them teachers start playin the
dozens behind colored folks. She stalk in with her hat pulled down bad
and that Persian lamb coat draped back over one hip on account of she
got her fist planted there so she can talk that talk which gets us all
hypnotized, and teacher be comin undone cause she know this could be her
job and her behind cause Mama got pull with the Board and bad by her own
self anyhow.
So I kick the door open wider and just walk right by him and sit down
and tell the man about himself and that I want my money back and that
goes for Baby Jason and Big Brood too. And he still tryin to shuffle me
out the door even though I'm sittin which sows him for the fool he is.
Just like them teachers do fore they realize Mama like a stone on that
spot and ain't backin up. So he ain't gettin up off the money. So I was
forced to leave, takin the matches from under his ashtray, and set a
fire under the candy stand, which closed the raggedy ole Washington down
for a week. My Daddy had the suspect it was me cause Big Brood got a big
mouth. But I explained right quick what the whole thing was about and I
figured it was even-steven. Cause if you say Gorilla, My Love, you
suppose to mean it. Just like when you say you goin to give me a party
on my birthday, you gotta mean it. And if you say me and Baby Jason can
go South pecan haulin with Granddaddy Vale, you better not be comin up
with no stuff about the weather look uncertain or did you mop the
bathroom or any other trickified business. I mean even gangsters in the
movies say My word is my bond. So don't nobody got away with nothin far
as I'm concerned. So Daddy put his belt back on. Cause that's the way I
was raised. Like my Mama say in one of them situations when I won't back
down, Okay Badbird, you right. Your point is well-taken. Not that
Badbird my name, just what she say when she tired arguin and know I'm
right. And Aunt Jo, who is the hardest head in the family and worse even
than Aunt Dausy, she say, You absolutely right Miss Muffin, which ain't
my real name but the name she gave me one time when I got some medicine
shot in my behind and wouldn't get up off her pillows for nothin. And
even Granddaddy Vale -- who got no memory to speak of, so sometime you
can just plain lie to him, if you want to be like that -- he say, Well
if that's what I said, then that's it. But this name business was
different they said. It wasn't like Hunca Bubba had gone back on his
word or anything. Just that he was thinkin bout gettin married and was
usin his real name now. Which ain't the way I saw it at all.
So there I am in the navigator seat. And I turn to him and just plain
ole az him. I mean I come right on out with it. No sense goin all around
that barn the old folkstalk about. And like my mama say, Hazel -- which
is my real name and what she remembers to call me when she bein serious
-- when you got something on your mind, speak up and let the chips fall
where they may. And if anybody don't like it, tell em to come see your
mama. And Daddy look up from the paper and say, You hear your mama good,
Hazel. And tell em to come see me first. That's how I was raised.
So I turn clear round in the navigator seat and say, "Look here, Hunca
Bubba or Jefferson Windsong Vale or whatever your name is, you gonna
marry this girl?"
"Sure am," he say, all grins.
And I say, "Member that time you was baby-sittin me when we lived at
four-o-nine and there was this big snow and Mama and Daddy got held up
in the country so you had to stay for two days?"
And he say, "Sure do."
"Well. You remember who you told me I was the cutest thing that ever
walked the earth?"
"Oh, you were real cute when you were little," he say, which is suppose
to be funny. I am not laughin.
"Well. You remember what you said?"
And Granddaddy Vale squintin over the wheel and axin Which way, Scout.
But Scout is busy and don't care if we all get lost for days.
"Watcha mean, Peaches?"
"My name is Hazel. And what I mean is you said you were going to marry
/me/ when I grew up. You were going to wait. That's what I mean, my dear
Uncle Jefferson." And he don't say nuthin. Just look at me real strange
like he never saw me before in life. Like he lost in some weird town in
the middle of night and lookin for directions and there's no one to ask.
Like it was me that messed up the maps and turned the road posts around.
"Well, you said it, didn't you?" And Baby Jason lookin back and forth
like we playin ping-pong. Only I ain't playin. I'm hurtin and I can hear
that I am screamin. And Granddaddy Vale mumblin how we never gonna get
to where we goin if I don't turn around and take my navigator job serious.
"Well, for cryin out loud, Hazel, you just a little girl. And I was just
teasin."
"'And I was just teasin,'" I say back just how he said it so he can hear
what a terrible thing it is. Then I don't say nuthin. And he don't say
nuthin. And Baby Jason don't say nuthin nohow. Then Granddaddy Vale
speak up. "Look here, Precious, it was Hunca Bubba what told you them
things. This here, Jefferson Winston Vale." And Hunca Bubba say, "That's
right. That was somebody else. I'm a new somebody."
"You a lyin dawg," I say, when I meant to say treacherous dog, but just
couldn't get hold of the word. It slipped away from me. And I'm crying
and crumplin down in the seat and just don't care. And Granddaddy say to
hush and steps on the gas. And I'm losin my bearins and don't even know
where to look on the map cause I can't see for cryin. And Baby Jason
cryin too. Cause he is my blood brother and understand that we must
stick together or be forever lost, what with grownups playin change-up
and turnin you round every which way so bad. And don't even say they sorry.
XXX
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:43:29 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Spouseless in summit
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> **
> *PS- Besides which, I shaved my beard. She didn't even notice.*
Funny how that happens.
][<
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:55:30 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Spouseless in summit
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 12:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I'm impressed! You must be under no supervision whatsoever!
Not yet.
Ralph
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 12:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncal=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I'm impressed! You must be under no supe=
rvision whatsoever!</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Not yet.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:06:57 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post while Rome Burns
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 12:22:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ralph,
If the wood is rotten and not to be salvaged and will be thrown away
then why in hell would anyone waste energy on denailing?
I can denail with the best of them and I take umbrage with your slight
against masons! We denail with our TEETH by GAWD!
Yuuck... reminds me of the time dismantling the Norwegian outhouse and
put a rusty spike through my foot.
][<en
Well, MAYBE if the LUMBER--and here you've again proven yourself to be an
ignorant mason by calling it "wood"-- doesn't need to be saved it would be,
maybe, acceptable. But a wise supervisor would take advantage of this opportunity
to train the lesser members of the crew in the fine art of careful fastener
removal.
Denailing with your teeth doesn't constitute a sign of superior workmanship,
at least in my book. Millennia of civilization have developed specialized
metal tools, far better adapted than even a mason's dentition, for use in this
task. If I placed mortar with my hands (or split rocks with farts), how
impressed would you be?
As for Norwegian outhouses, these things happen, but they happen less with
skilled mechanics paying attention to what they are doing. Even when walking.
Ralph
PS-- John Leeke, if we ever hear from him again, will be in complete
agreement with me on this. Otherwise, he's as full of shit as an old Norwegian
outhouse.
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 12:22:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgreas=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Ralph,<BR><BR>If the wood is rotten and not to=
be salvaged and will be thrown away<BR>then why in hell would anyone waste=20=
energy on denailing?<BR>I can denail with the best of them and I take umbrag=
e with your slight<BR>against masons! We denail with our TEETH by GAWD!<BR>Y=
uuck... reminds me of the time dismantling the Norwegian outhouse and<BR>put=
a rusty spike through my foot.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Well, MAYBE if the LUMBER--and here=20=
you've again proven yourself to be an ignorant mason by calling it=
"wood"-- doesn't need to be saved it would be, maybe, acceptable. =
; But a wise supervisor would take advantage of this opportunity to tra=
in the lesser members of the crew in the fine art of careful fastener remova=
l.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Denailing with your teeth doesn't constit=
ute a sign of superior workmanship, at least in my book. Millennia=
of civilization have developed specialized metal tools, far better ada=
pted than even a mason's dentition, for use in this task. If I pl=
aced mortar with my hands (or split rocks with farts), how impressed would y=
ou be?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>As for Norwegian outhouses, these things=20=
happen, but they happen less with skilled mechanics paying attention to what=
they are doing. Even when walking. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>PS-- John Leeke, if we ever hear from him=
again, will be in complete agreement with me on this. Otherwise, he's=
as full of shit as an old Norwegian outhouse.</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY><=
/HTML>
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:07:50 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Spouseless in summit
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 12:44:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> *PS- Besides which, I shaved my beard. She didn't even notice.*
Funny how that happens.
Ha, ha. And not in the Nelson sense.
Ralph
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f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 12:44:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgreas=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>> *PS- Besides which, I shaved my bea=
rd. She didn't even notice.*<BR><BR>Funny how that happens.</FONT></BL=
OCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ha, ha. And not in the Nelson sense=
.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:27:22 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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It is indeed risk analysis. The risk of a temporary fix versus are
genuine repair; the risk of finding the right workman, the risk that
one's decisions or work will be challenged. To some extent I suppose
there is a risk to funds that might otherwise preserve something more
obviously of value.
I merely want to give good council to a colleague and assure success of
the project.
I am concluding that the work should be taken apart and repaired; that
the selection of the craftsman should be done with care; that the work
if done well should be observed and learned from; and that there are
risks that are not avoidable. It is not my decision to make.
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 11:17 AM, Gabriel Orgrease wrote:
> John Callan wrote:
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Given that this is a significant staircase in a significant building,
>> what kind of experience and qualifications would be needed for the
>> person supervising this work? How many helpers and what are their
>> qualifications? What are the risks that historic material will be
>> damaged beyond repair?
>>
>> Is this something that a typical (if there is such a thing) historic
>> site maintenance crew can handle if only the curators trusted the
>> skills of the reluctantly verbal members of our community?
>>
>> -jc
>
> Put it this way John... in both of the examples that I have been
> working
> on in neither case would I give over the task to another mechanic than
> myself. Let alone supervision while standing nearby watching, or far
> away thinking. I would not want to stand there and supervise anyone but
> the best, and I only know 1/2 of a person for that (and I think they
> should be proud). In each case there are reasons for intimacy between
> the supervision and execution within the confines of one brain and one
> body that preclude division of labor. So, I guess the qualifications
> start with needing a master mechanic with proven experience and an
> ability to see 'outside' of the box to understand the nontangibles of
> the project. As to # of helpers, seems to me as few as possible and
> only
> enough that the master mechanic can keep control of the situation. No
> naked dumb & bumbler allowed.
>
> What you need to do is pick the right person to do the job, and so the
> qualifications should I would think focus on just how to qualify the
> master mechanic desired... and an oral and hands-on examination should
> be considered on-site... interview whomever at the railing and ask them
> what they think about it and how they would do it... go watch them do
> work elsewhere and see how they flow... which brings up something I
> have
> been contemplating which is the degree to which a mechanic is so tuned
> into their work, the objects, and the materials that they are working
> with that they talk dirty to them while working as in, "Baby, please
> don't f'n do that! Here, here you go, there, yeah, that is where I want
> you. Stay there now. Don't move. Yeah, that is nice." It is something
> of
> a wake up call when the mechanic realizes the very nice middle-class
> suburbanite docents are standing behind them to watch and listen the
> whole time. We are talking engagement in the task and focus.
>
> Have it in the specs that if you, or whomever, is not satisfied with
> the
> interview scenario then somebody has to go back to scratch. You may try
> qualification of 30 years experience rather than the paper-wash of 5
> years? I don't know for sure. If you end up with an idiot you will know
> it soon enough, if you end up with someone that knows what they are
> doing you might not notice. Then, again, it depends on if you stand
> around eves dropping.
>
> In the case of the stone rail & newel it would take longer to explain
> what needed to be done to lift it, which was 90% of the job, than it
> took to actually do it. The work after that was easy enough but it
> could
> still be messed up by a mechanic that did not take care, understand
> what
> was going on, or why, and had no patience or experience. Too damned
> much
> time is spent explaining WHY something has to be done in a particular
> way and I'll be honest in saying that the minute I have to explain my
> explanation then I might as well do it myself. The risk of damage to
> historic fabric is too high for the communications process to interfere
> with it. I say this considering that I have been involved in some
> fairly
> complex management situations on projects.
>
> In the case of the wooden stair it was not so much a problem of
> disassembly as much as making sure the parts needed to be salvaged for
> reconstruction were salvaged... meaning that the vital information was
> not lost in the process. Photographs were taken, the process went
> slowly
> step by step and the exploration of the structure occured concurrent
> with the disassembly. When you begin adding on layers of supervision
> the
> complications increase exponentially, not linear, and in a hands-off
> approach the more details that are figured out in the beginning the
> less
> opportunity for error in the end. But... the further intelligence is
> stepped away from the hands-on aspect of the process the greater the
> likelihood of damage to historic fabric. You need to figure out where
> on
> the sliding scales you want the project to end up and what controls
> there will be to monitor quality control and stop the process in time
> if
> it is going in a bad direction. Me, right now, I am very much into
> wanting direct and immediate control of the situation... if the job
> allows stepping back a few notches no problem.
>
> Every railing and newel combination is going to be a different
> situation
> and require a different solution.
>
> In answer to your last question... no. The reluctantly verbal members
> of
> our community need to open their mouths and talk. If you cannot find a
> way to get them to pre-verbalize their solutions, if not even to the
> extent of getting them to wave their arms around to mimic good physical
> form in work practice... then good luck. They should at least be able
> to
> do this communication with you, or with assistance from a professional
> supervisor and experienced coach (hint) to work with and evaluate the
> existing work-skill resources. I don't know what typical is.
>
> Sounds to me like you have a cost-benefit-risk analysis underway.
>
> ][<
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:29:03 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with John Leeke
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
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Where the hell is he anyway? Vacationing in Nebraska?
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 12:06 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> PS-- John Leeke, if we ever hear from him again, will be in complete=20=
> agreement with me on this.=A0 Otherwise, he's as full of shit as an =
old=20
> Norwegian outhouse.=
--Apple-Mail-3-231728860
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Where the hell is he anyway? Vacationing in Nebraska?
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 12:06 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
=
<excerpt><bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,404=
0</param><x-tad-smaller>PS--
John Leeke, if we ever hear from him again, will be in complete
agreement with me on this.=A0 Otherwise, he's as full of shit as an old
Norwegian =
outhouse.</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold></excerpt>=
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:48:45 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Half-Timber vs Braced Frame
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Okay, new odd question. Are Half-Timber, Frachwerk and Braced Frame
construction the same thing with variations in the infill materials
between the studs? Do they all rely on mortice and tenons?
-jc
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:22:22 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081624942"
-------------------------------1081624942
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I am concluding that the work should be taken apart and repaired; that
the selection of the craftsman should be done with care; that the work
if done well should be observed and learned from; and that there are
risks that are not avoidable. It is not my decision to make.
Your first sentence is entirely correct. As for the last sentence, consider
this a blessing to count, next time you take inventory.
The best we can do is to give our clients good advice, and let them make
their own decisions.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081624942
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncall=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I am concluding that the work should be taken=20=
apart and repaired; that<BR>the selection of the craftsman should be done wi=
th care; that the work<BR>if done well should be observed and learned from;=20=
and that there are<BR>risks that are not avoidable. It is not my decis=
ion to make.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Your first sentence is entirely correct.=20=
As for the last sentence, consider this a blessing to count, next time=
you take inventory.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>The best we can do is to g=
ive our clients good advice, and let them make their own decisions.</FONT></=
STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081624942--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:25:35 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with John Leeke
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081625135"
-------------------------------1081625135
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:29:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Where the hell is he anyway? Vacationing in Nebraska?
-jc
John,
How the hell should I know where the hell he is, much less whether he's in
Nebraska and what the hell he's doing there if he is?
Just because I'm the Pinhead in charge of New York doesn't mean I run the
rest of the damn country.
Which reminds me, anybody ever hear of a Canadian method of sheetrocking? I
just saw a truck that said they do it that way. The only Canadian method I
know of relates to hernia repair.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081625135
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:29:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncall=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Where the hell is he anyway? Vacationing=
in Nebraska?<BR><BR>-jc</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>John,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>How the hell should I know where the hell=
he is, much less whether he's in Nebraska and what the hell he's doing ther=
e if he is?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Just because I'm the Pinhead in charge of=
New York doesn't mean I run the rest of the damn country.</FONT></STRONG></=
DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Which reminds me, anybody ever hear of a=20=
Canadian method of sheetrocking? I just saw a truck that said they do=20=
it that way. The only Canadian method I know of relates to hernia repa=
ir.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081625135--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:42:19 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Half-Timber vs Braced Frame
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081626139"
-------------------------------1081626139
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:49:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Okay, new odd question. Are Half-Timber, Frachwerk and Braced Frame
construction the same thing with variations in the infill materials
between the studs? Do they all rely on mortice and tenons?
It's Fachwerk, and I think they're all pretty much the same. Maybe there are
some regional and/or national variations in technique or materials, but the
results appear pretty goldarned similar.
It would be interesting to find out when they stopped cutting mortises and
tenons in framing, but I'd be willing to bet it went on into the 1920's or 30's
and was finally killed by WWII and the large-scale construction that followed.
On the other hand, I have a WWII Army carpentry manual that my father
must've picked up after the war which I think included information on mortises and
tenons... but of course I can't find it now.
If Heidi was still around, maybe we could sucker her into doing a thesis on
comparative framing methods and telling the rest of us what she found. On the
other hand, Rudy ought to know about this stuff, which should be right up
his....alley. And where the hell is he, off on vacation with John Leeke in
Nebraska?
Ralph
-------------------------------1081626139
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:49:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johncall=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Okay, new odd question. Are Half-Timber,=
Frachwerk and Braced Frame<BR>construction the same thing with variations i=
n the infill materials<BR>between the studs? Do they all rely on morti=
ce and tenons?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>It's Fachwerk, and I think they're all pr=
etty much the same. Maybe there are some regional and/or national vari=
ations in technique or materials, but the results appear pretty goldarned si=
milar. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>It would be interesting to find out when=20=
they stopped cutting mortises and tenons in framing, but I'd be willing=
to bet it went on into the 1920's or 30's and was finally killed by WW=
II and the large-scale construction that followed. On the other hand,&=
nbsp;I have a WWII Army carpentry manual that my father must've picked up af=
ter the war which I think included information on mortises and tenons..=
. but of course I can't find it now. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>If Heidi was still around, maybe we could=
sucker her into doing a thesis on comparative framing methods and telling t=
he rest of us what she found. </FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT color=3D#4=
00040>On the other hand, Rudy ought to know about this stuff, which should b=
e right up his....alley. And where the hell is he, off on vacation wit=
h John Leeke in Nebraska?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081626139--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:16:10 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Half-Timber vs Braced Frame
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-241755323
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I wonder what the heck is going on in Nebraska that is motivating all=20
these folks to vacation there.
Hey, I have that manual too! Its in really bad shape. Oops, not the=20
same one. Mine is "Light Frame House Construction, Technical=20
Information for the use of Apprentice and Journeyman Carpenters,=20
Reprinted 1956, US Dept. of Health Education and Welfare, Office of=20
Education. Cool, but much to modern.
Oh! And there's another one! Geez there's a lot of old beat up books=20=
around here! And they smell bad too! No wonder most Architects read=20
that professional rag! It doesn't smell bad and you can toss it when=20
it no longer looks nice on the coffee table.
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 2:42 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/10/2004 1:49:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> Okay, new odd question.=A0 Are Half-Timber, Frachwerk and Braced Frame
> construction the same thing with variations in the infill materials
> between the studs?=A0 Do they all rely on mortice and tenons?
> It's Fachwerk, and I think they're all pretty much the same.=A0 Maybe=20=
> there are some regional and/or national variations in technique or=20
> materials, but the results appear pretty goldarned similar.=A0
> =A0
> It would be interesting to find out when they stopped cutting mortises=20=
> and tenons in framing,=A0but I'd be willing to=A0bet it went on into =
the=20
> 1920's or 30's and was finally killed by WWII and the large-scale=20
> construction that followed.=A0 On the other hand,=A0I have a WWII Army=20=
> carpentry manual that my father must've picked up after the war which=20=
> I=A0think included information on mortises and tenons... but of course =
I=20
> can't find it now.=A0=A0=A0
> =A0
> If Heidi was still around, maybe we could sucker her into doing a=20
> thesis on comparative framing methods and telling the rest of us what=20=
> she found.=A0 On the other hand, Rudy ought to know about this stuff,=20=
> which should be right up his....alley.=A0 And where the hell is he, =
off=20
> on vacation with John Leeke in Nebraska?
> =A0
> Ralph
--Apple-Mail-1-241755323
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
charset=ISO-8859-1
I wonder what the heck is going on in Nebraska that is motivating all
these folks to vacation there.
Hey, I have that manual too! Its in really bad shape. Oops, not the
same one. Mine is "Light Frame House Construction, Technical
Information for the use of Apprentice and Journeyman Carpenters,
Reprinted 1956, US Dept. of Health Education and Welfare, Office of
Education. Cool, but much to modern.
Oh! And there's another one! Geez there's a lot of old beat up books
around here! And they smell bad too! No wonder most Architects read
that professional rag! It doesn't smell bad and you can toss it when
it no longer looks nice on the coffee table.
-jc
On Apr 10, 2004, at 2:42 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>In a message
dated 4/10/2004 1:49:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>Okay, new odd
question.=A0 Are Half-Timber, Frachwerk and Braced =
Frame</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>construction the same
thing with variations in the infill =
materials</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>between the studs?=A0 Do
they all rely on mortice and tenons?</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>It's
Fachwerk, and I think they're all pretty much the same.=A0 Maybe there
are some regional and/or national variations in technique or
materials, but the results appear pretty goldarned =
similar.=A0</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>It
would be interesting to find out when they stopped cutting mortises
and tenons in framing,=A0but I'd be willing to=A0bet it went on into the
1920's or 30's and was finally killed by WWII and the large-scale
construction that followed.=A0 On the other hand,=A0I have a WWII Army
carpentry manual that my father must've picked up after the war which
I=A0think included information on mortises and tenons... but of course I
can't find it now.=A0=A0=A0</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>If
Heidi was still around, maybe we could sucker her into doing a thesis
on comparative framing methods and telling the rest of us what she
found.=A0 On the other hand, Rudy ought to know about this stuff, which
should be right up his....alley.=A0 And where the hell is he, off on
vacation with John Leeke in =
Nebraska?</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>4040,0000,4040</param>=
<x-tad-smaller>Ralph</x-tad-smaller></color></fontfamily></bold>
</excerpt>=
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:17:57 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post while Rome Burns
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_DuFk5oXCS8TeFZa7NUMU2g)"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_DuFk5oXCS8TeFZa7NUMU2g)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Some of us work with Wood. <http://www.awc.org/index.html>
Some of us are simply cranky.
][<
--Boundary_(ID_DuFk5oXCS8TeFZa7NUMU2g)
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
Some of us work with <a href="http://www.awc.org/index.html">Wood.</a><br>
Some of us are simply cranky.<br>
<br>
][<<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:40:11 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post while Rome Burns
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081633211"
-------------------------------1081633211
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/10/2004 4:18:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Some of us work with Wood.
Some of us are simply cranky.
Sir:
People who work with "wood" work in the forest, or in lumber mills. After
the forest products have been through the lumber mill, people who work with
those products work with lumber.
Do masons set rocks and clay, or stone and brick? I rest my case.
I think more than "some of us are" cranky, simply or complexly, including me.
But you were crankier first.
Ralph
(Now even crankier because I got beaten out of an Eifel-geared Plierench on
eBay)
-------------------------------1081633211
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/10/2004 4:18:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease=
@OPTONLINE.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Some of us work with </FONT><A title=3Dhttp://=
www.awc.org/index.html href=3D"http://www.awc.org/index.html"><FONT face=3DA=
rial>Wood.</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial>Some of us are simply cranky.</F=
ONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Sir:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>People who work with "wood" work in the f=
orest, or in lumber mills. After the forest products have been through=
the lumber mill, people who work with those products work with <U>lumber</U=
>.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Do masons set rocks and clay, or sto=
ne and brick? I rest my case.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I think more than "some of us are" cranky=
, simply or complexly, including me. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>But you were crankier first.</FONT></STRO=
NG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>(Now even crankier because I got bea=
ten out of an Eifel-geared Plierench on eBay)</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></=
HTML>
-------------------------------1081633211--
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:56:58 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CShall=20we=20never,=20never=20get=20rid=20of=20?=
=?UTF-8?Q?this=20Past=3F=E2=80=9D=20cried=20he,=20keeping=20up=20the=20e?=
=?UTF-8?Q?arnest=20t?=
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=E2=80=9CShall we never, never get rid of this Past?=E2=80=9D cried he, keep=
ing up the=20
earnest tone of the previous conversation. =E2=80=9CIt lies upon the Present=
like a giant=E2=80=99
s dead body! In fact, the case is just as if a young giant were compelled to=
=20
waste all his strength in carrying about the corpse of an old giant, his=20
grandfather, who died a long while ago, and only needs to be decently buried=
. Just=20
think a moment, and it will startle you to see what slaves we are to bygone=20
times.=E2=80=94 to Death, if we give the matter the right word!=E2=80=9D=20
Holgrave, =E2=80=9CThe Daguerreotypist=E2=80=9D from Nathaniel Hawthorne=E2=
=80=99s House of the=20
Seven Gables
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<BLOCKQUOTE>=E2=80=9CShall we never, never get rid of this Past?=E2=80=9D cr=
ied he, keeping up the earnest tone of the previous conversation. =E2=80=9CI=
t lies upon the Present like a giant=E2=80=99s dead body! In fact, the case=20=
is just as if a young giant were compelled to waste all his strength in carr=
ying about the corpse of an old giant, his grandfather, who died a long whil=
e ago, and only needs to be decently buried. Just think a moment, and it wil=
l startle you to see what slaves we are to bygone times.=E2=80=94 to Death,=20=
if we give the matter the right word!=E2=80=9D </BLOCKQUOTE>
<P align=3Dright>Holgrave, =E2=80=9CThe Daguerreotypist=E2=80=9D from Nathan=
iel Hawthorne=E2=80=99s <EM>House of the Seven Gables</P></EM></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:25:30 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: physics question... Shine on,,,,
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In a message dated 4/8/04 4:33:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
"The purpose of the water is to make the polish stick to the leather not to
the cloth." (I have no way of knowing if the person who wrote this is a
certified boot polishing scientist.)
Explanation from Korfos, the Greek shoemaker: the water moistens the leather,
making a smooth surface, the wax rides on top. That's what he says. 42
years in the business. c
-------------------------------1081657530
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/8/04 4:33:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bmarcham@es=
f.edu writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>"The purpose of the water is to make the polis=
h stick to the leather not to the cloth." (I have no way of knowing if=
the person who wrote this is a certified boot polishing scientist.)</FONT><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Explanation from Korfos, the Greek shoemaker: the water moistens the le=
ather, making a smooth surface, the wax rides on top. That's wha=
t he says. 42 years in the business. c</DIV></=
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:58:49 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Excorcist Bunnies
X-To: Monty <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_fmy2nWyzzV13dBZGFsqlOw)"
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Excorcist Bunnies <http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html>
FLASH: you better have broadband for this access
http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html
--Boundary_(ID_fmy2nWyzzV13dBZGFsqlOw)
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<a href="http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html">Excorcist
Bunnies</a><br>
<br>
FLASH: you better have broadband for this access<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html">http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html</a>
</body>
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:38:46 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tiny Buildings for Tiny People
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"A former minister of finance recalled with amazement the scene he
encountered when he was summoned to Hitler's office to discuss a loan
from the Reichsbank to finance one of the Führer's building projects:
When the door was opened, there was Hitler lying on the floor with a
number of toy buildings carefully arranged in front of him. . . . Hitler
did not arise when his guest was announced, but invited his guest to
join him on the floor. His first remark was "Isn't this beautiful? We
must make Berlin the most beautiful city in the world." The official
agreed that it was, but maintained that its realization at the moment
was impossible. . . .
But Hitler was not defeated. He lay flat on his stomach staring at the
models for a considerable period of time in silence. Suddenly he turned
to his visitor and said like a little child with tears in his voice,
"But you can't take this away from me. I will be so unhappy. You must
let me have it!". . . <http://www.questia.com/58049039>
The Führer liked to build things; he also liked to knock them down. In
the basement of the Reichschancellery there was a miniature cannon with
a barrel about 30 inches long and a special silencer built into the
chamber. Hitler delighted in loading, aiming, and firing the little
piece himself. His targets were wooden buildings and figures of "enemy"
soldiers: Polish, English, French, and Russian--the Russians were
painted with ugly, leering faces. As a very special favor to his friend
Mussolini, Hitler let him play with his toy, loading and shooting it
himself."
/The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler/, by Robert G. L. Waite
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:54:53 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Tiny Buildings for People with Tiny Peepees
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I don't buy the story, and probably read the book (I read ALL this shit), and
don't remember this scene from anywhere. It doesn't sound like him, either.
It reminds me of the business about the "jig" Adolf danced when France
surrendered--his little dance was created by Allied movie technicians repeating a
loop of film.
It's not as if he didn't make himself look bad enough, without anybody else's
help.
Ralph
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f">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I don't buy the story, and probably read=20=
the book (I read ALL this shit), and don't remember this scene from any=
where. It doesn't sound like him, either. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>It reminds me of the business about the "=
jig" Adolf danced when France surrendered--his little dance was created=
by Allied movie technicians repeating a loop of film.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>It's not as if he didn't make himsel=
f look bad enough, without anybody else's help.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:02:16 -0400
Reply-To: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Historic HomeWorks
Subject: Fiddling with Newel Post
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>>PS-- John Leeke, if we ever hear from him again, will be in complete
agreement with me on this. Otherwise, he's as full of shit as an old
Norwegian
outhouse.<<
OK, ok. I'm back in the world of the nearly living after recovery from
getting sick while traveling--nothing worse that illness while traveling
and while having to keep up with duties. Now that I have returned home,
colapsed, and recovered, and cleared all the shit out of my system, I am
now cleaner that a brand
new Norwegian outhouse. I am now ready and rearin' to go.
>>If the wood is rotten and not to be salvaged and will be thrown away
then why in hell would anyone waste energy on denailing?<<
Never, never thrown any old parts or materials away until after full
project completion (and then save samples of all parts and materials for
posterity). About 10 years ago I started writing this into all project
specs, about half the time it pays off with providing needed valuable
information.
Newel post: follow all previously provided advice and guidance, but do use
appropriate tools instead of teeth. Although, in the physical assessment
phase I would definitely use my "no boots" method of bare-foot detection
for the added sensory delight of ticklish splinters and pinching joints to
identify subtle movements not otherwise detectible. Our feel already know
quite a lot about how stairs work and we should give them the opportunity
to tell us what they know. Situational analysis
and outcome projections must include identification of failure modes.
You will learn a lot about anyone's approach to their work by asking
them how it has and will fail. Any know-it-alls who do not admit to past
and future failures can be immediately eliminated. Those who have developed
their failures into a system of education and improvement can be included.
After eliminating everyone who could possible do the work, then you can
identify those who are most responsive to the need, most capable of problem
solving, and have enough practical experience to keep your project,
themselves, and you out of trouble. I often measure work experience with
the aid of my
"Orders of Experience" scale, which assumes that they are conciencious
enough to have been on a track of steady improvement in their work
practice, which I analyze with my famous I+E=K formula (Information +
Experience = Knowledge).
For a limited time you can download the Orders of Experience & I+E=K
handout from my planning workshop
at:
http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/library/Order%20of%20Experience%20Handout.pdf
If you can't seem to get any forward movement, I would be please come out
and give you a hand with conditions assessment, project planning, trades
selection, training, or actual woodworking. Travel expenses could be be
reduced as it looks like I'll be giving a workshop series (on window
preservation) at various locations across South Dakota during August or
September.
John
by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
--
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:03:42 -0400
Reply-To: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Historic HomeWorks
Subject: Report from the Field
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Ralph writes:
>>People who work with "wood" work in the forest, or in lumber mills.
After
the forest products have been through the lumber mill, people who work with
those products work with lumber.
Do masons set rocks and clay, or stone and brick? I rest my case.<<
Yes. It depends on whether the woodworker or the mason is working as a
tradesperson, a craftsperson, or an artisan. I know from my own experience
that a plank of lumber from the mill can be a product that is simply
installed as piece of flooring, as a tradesperson would do; or can be
consider as a piece of wood that can be shaped into a stair stringer, as a
craftsman would do; or can be carved into a decorative newel post panel, as
an artisan would do. The tradesperson might depend on the mill for his
product, but the craftsman and the artisan might go to the forest, or to
the mill for his wood.
I just spent a week at the Masters of the Building Arts Festival in
Charleston. The festival was organized by the School of the Building Arts.
It was an unusual combination of artisans from around the country, trades
educators, staff and supporters of the school. Perhaps 60 people from
around the world were involved and another thousand or two of the visiting
public from the southeast USA. During the APTI conference last October,
John Paul Huguley, the school's founder, asked me to come down for the
festival. I thought, "Alright! A chance to demonstrate traditional
woodworking, perhaps do a little letter carving that I had been otherwise
neglecting out in the shop." But, John Paul said to NOT bring any tools, he
had another assignment for me. I was to be his personal journalist, the one
person who would range through the various levels of the event, from the
artisans' demonstrations for the public, to the school staff and artisans'
roundtables for the development of the school's curriculum, to the VIP
cocktail parties, to the behind-the-scenes pow-wows of foreign advisors,
national funders and political supporters--and then to report back with my
findings and observations. All this was a real eye-opener for me. Perhaps
more reports will follow.
I had also set myself with the task of furthering my own research into the
differences between contemporary construction industry trades practice and
the traditional crafts and artisanry. One of the distinctions is that
"spark
of life" that passes from the maker of an object, into the object as it is
made, and then on to the later user of the object. I think you know what I
mean by "the spark." In the traditional crafts and artisanry the spark
flows most readily. The spark occurs most often when raw materials from
the earth are worked by hands that are informed with traditional methods,
decades of experience and when the worker has the future user of the object
at heart. When such objects are assembled into a building, the sparks
combine and the building is said to be "living," or have a "life of its
own." My own principal belief system is science. Even though science does
not recognize the spark, I do believe in the spark too, since I have
experienced it in my own work since I was a child. The construction
industry depends on science to manufacture raw materials into products that
are installed by tradespeople. In the construction industry system the
"spark" is not seem to be carried by the object--perhaps it is there, but
there is some disconnect that seems to prevent any positive result. At the
festival I was present at three instances of "the spark," and able to
document two of them (at lease as far as such things can be documented with
photos, video and interviews), which seems to be developing into an article
on the topic of "The Spark." In any case, I have been able to refine my
definitions of the different sorts of workers. These definitions are based
on how workers relate to their tools, their materials and how their work
affects other people. Here are the definitions for your review and comment:
Honor in All Work
Those who work with their hands are Laborers.
They help others by shifting materials from here to there.
Those who work with their hands and their tools are Tradespeople.
They follow the rules laid down by others. They use their hands
assembling products to meet standards set by others.
Those who work with their hands, tools and their heads are
Craftspeople. Knowledge and ideas become extensions of their minds
to implement the plans of others. Craftspeople use their hands and
heads to solve problems with their knowledge of basic materials
and how to shape them effectively.
Those who work with their hands, tools, heads and their hearts are
artisans. Vision moves them to create great works that inspire
others. An artisan uses his hands, his head and his heart to
change the way people feel about themselves and the world around
them.
If you have any stories about how the spark has affected you or the people
around you, please let me know.
John
by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:03:22 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Spark
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In a message dated 4/12/2004 2:00:54 AM Central Standard Time, John writes:
When such objects are assembled into a building, the sparks
combine and the building is said to be "living," or have a "life of its
own.
Only when I sculpt (for my self) or free lance build the order of stone (
random rubble for example) do I get to put into a building something that "I
decide" wants to go there
most of the time I reproduce what was already there .Now I do have to
interpret what was there ;but the concept was laid down long before
I did a big bas relief (sandstone 8') at a meditation center doorway in
Scotland that was Celtic spirals of my own design after I quarried the piece and
shaped it.
Also several fireplaces and hearths; Chimneys .... my favorite is stone
pathways with the grass growing between the joints ;along with rock (Japanese)
water features;the older I get the more appealing this art form is for me
.Michael
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/12/2004 2:00:54 AM Central Standard Time, Joh=
n writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>When such objects are assembled into a buildin=
g, the sparks<BR>combine and the building is said to be "living," or have a=20=
"life of its<BR>own.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Only when I sculpt (for my self) or free lance build the order of stone=
( random rubble for example) do I get to put into a building somethin=
g that "I decide" wants to go there </DIV>
<DIV>most of the time I reproduce what was already there .Now I do have to i=
nterpret what was there ;but the concept was laid down long before </DIV>
<DIV>I did a big bas relief (sandstone 8') at a meditation center doorway in=
Scotland that was Celtic spirals of my own design after I quarri=
ed the piece and shaped it.</DIV>
<DIV> Also several fireplaces and hearths; Chimneys .... my favori=
te is stone pathways with the grass growing between the joints ;along w=
ith rock (Japanese) water features;the older I get the more appealing this a=
rt form is for me .Michael</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081771402--
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:32:52 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walking the poodle: an Easter vigil ...
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Last night, Saturday, took the dog out around 11:55 PM, heard some sort of
steel drums a few blocks farther north on Park Avenue, not calypso, more like
chanting, sort of gongs or something. Walked north another few blocks. At
93rd & Park - big brick mansion now occupied by Russion Orthodox Church - street
closed off, crowd of 100-200, all men in black leather coats or black suits,
all women in stiletto heels, often dyed blonde hair. Many black BMW's and
other very very very black cars parked nearby. Sense of concealed firearms is
strong.
Just then, double door to mansion opens, out walks procession headed by monks
in black robes holding giant crucifix and other standards in gold, big, very
big, makes Episcopal crucifix look like GI Joe accessory. Monks followed by
priests/bishops in white, with white Russian bishops' hats (folded, square,
like napkins, you know, heavy lace brocade), followed by 25+ choristers holding
candles - night was mild, damp, balmy. Procession walks down block through
the crowd - crowd makes way for them - procession turns into the courtyard (part
of the original mansion complex), walks to back - more crowd-splitting -
walking choir starts singing, entire party climbs stairs to second level, choir
chants something mysterious, priests (backs turned) announce things even more
mysterious, men in black coats women in stiletto heels nod and chant also.
Entire procession comes down stairs, priests pass me swinging incense burners
saying, in heavy accent "Christ is Risen, Christ is Risen, Christ is
Risen", then they reenter mansion, crowd follows inside.
Parallel event: Just before procession first leaves the mansion, small
group, more modestly dressed, appear from around the corner, apparently from
another location, they carry small crucifix, just a few people. They pause at
front door of mansion, just before white-clad priests come out, as if on cue.
They stop, chant something, wait, then move on down the block out of sight -
crowd also parts for this smaller group, but they do not seem to be connected.
After white-clad priests re-enter mansion, smaller group reappears from
around the corner - they have circled the block. Stop again at front door, now
closed. Chant. Pause, expectantly. Can't tell if they actually knock on the
door, but it opens, as if on cue, the strangers enter. Door closes.
Circumstances: Russian Orthodox in the 93rd Street mansion are/were "White
Russian" Christians, loyal to Tsar and pre-revolutionary Russia. Hence finery,
big gold things, etc. Smaller group was from the "Soviet" Russian Orthodox
church on 97th Street - the two were at sword's points for 60 years. This
annual ceremony marks their rapprochement, post-Soviet collapse.
"I Will Raise Them Up On the Last Day"
Best to all, Christopher
-------------------------------1081773172
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Last night, Saturday, took the dog out around 11:55 PM, heard some sort=
of steel drums a few blocks farther north on Park Avenue, not calypso, more=
like chanting, sort of gongs or something. Walked north another few b=
locks. At 93rd & Park - big brick mansion now occupied by Ru=
ssion Orthodox Church - street closed off, crowd of 100-200, all men in blac=
k leather coats or black suits, all women in stiletto heels, often dyed blon=
de hair. Many black BMW's and other very very very black cars pa=
rked nearby. Sense of concealed firearms is strong. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just then, double door to mansion opens, out walks procession headed by=
monks in black robes holding giant crucifix and other standards in gold, bi=
g, very big, makes Episcopal crucifix look like GI Joe accessory. =
Monks followed by priests/bishops in white, with white Russian bishop=
s' hats (folded, square, like napkins, you know, heavy lace brocade), follow=
ed by 25+ choristers holding candles - night was mild, damp, balmy. Pr=
ocession walks down block through the crowd - crowd makes way for them=20=
- procession turns into the courtyard (part of the original mansion complex)=
, walks to back - more crowd-splitting - walking choir starts singing, entir=
e party climbs stairs to second level, choir chants something mysterious,&nb=
sp; priests (backs turned) announce things even more mysterious, men in=
black coats women in stiletto heels nod and chant also. <=
/DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Entire procession comes down stairs, priests pass me swinging incense b=
urners saying, in heavy accent "Christ is Risen, Christ is Risen, =
; Christ is Risen", then they reenter mansion, crowd follows inside.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Parallel event: Just before procession first leaves the man=
sion, small group, more modestly dressed, appear from around the corner, app=
arently from another location, they carry small crucifix, just a few people.=
They pause at front door of mansion, just before white-clad priests c=
ome out, as if on cue. They stop, chant something, wait, then move on=20=
down the block out of sight - crowd also parts for this smaller group, but t=
hey do not seem to be connected.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>After white-clad priests re-enter mansion, smaller group reappears from=
around the corner - they have circled the block. Stop again at front=20=
door, now closed. Chant. Pause, expectantly. Can't tell if=
they actually knock on the door, but it opens, as if on cue, the strangers=20=
enter. Door closes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Circumstances: Russian Orthodox in the 93rd Street mansion are/were "Wh=
ite Russian" Christians, loyal to Tsar and pre-revolutionary Russia. H=
ence finery, big gold things, etc. Smaller group was from=20=
the "Soviet" Russian Orthodox church on 97th Street - the two were at sword'=
s points for 60 years. This annual ceremony marks their ra=
pprochement, post-Soviet collapse. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"I Will Raise Them Up On the Last Day" </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best to all, Christopher </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081773172--
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:31:00 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: Rudy Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Half-Timber vs Braced Frame
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Okay, new odd question. Are Half-Timber, Frachwerk and Braced Frame
construction the same thing with variations in the infill materials
between the studs? Do they all rely on mortice and tenons?
-jc<
Probably the best glossary of terms for heavy timber construction around
today is in R. W. Brunskill's "Timber Building in Britain" (ISBN
0-575-03379-7). In it you find:
Half-Timber: various meanings have been attached to this term.
1. A timber frame in which the framing members and panels are exposed.
2. A timber frame based on halved timbers.
3. The use of a timber frame in the upper half of a building with a
solid wall in the lower half.
4. Timber framing making use of closely-spaced studs in which
approximately equal portions of timber and plaster are exposed.
Fachwerk is the German term for exposed timber walls with plaster
infill. (See four above)
Braced Frame is a term loosely differentiating a building from a stick
framed or balloon framed building, and would appear to have come into
use when these "lower quality" systems began to appear.
The last term on the list (I'm adding one) would be post and beam and is
a term commonly used to describe any building build with large timbers.
Personally I use post and beam to describe buildings using heavy timbers
that are connected with metal fasteners such as bolts, steel plates or
nails. The Edison Laboratory was a post and beam/balloon frame hybrid.
It did have 4x4 braces, but they were nailed in place. Timber framing is
more often the term used to describe buildings built with heavy timbers
connected with mortice and tenon joinery. These types of structures
always have braces if they are Western European or American, and
compression beams if they are Eastern. In Fachwerken the braces are
often integrated into the medieval patterns in the walls.
Clear as rad and dab?
Rudy
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:42:02 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Half-Timber vs Braced Frame
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Thank you very much Rudy! This really does help. It consolidates and
confirms scattered bits and pieces into a comprehendible chunk.
-jc
On Apr 12, 2004, at 9:31 AM, Rudy Christian wrote:
>> Okay, new odd question. Are Half-Timber, Frachwerk and Braced Frame
> construction the same thing with variations in the infill materials
> between the studs? Do they all rely on mortice and tenons?
>
> -jc<
>
> Probably the best glossary of terms for heavy timber construction
> around
> today is in R. W. Brunskill's "Timber Building in Britain" (ISBN
> 0-575-03379-7). In it you find:
>
> Half-Timber: various meanings have been attached to this term.
> 1. A timber frame in which the framing members and panels are exposed.
> 2. A timber frame based on halved timbers.
> 3. The use of a timber frame in the upper half of a building with a
> solid wall in the lower half.
> 4. Timber framing making use of closely-spaced studs in which
> approximately equal portions of timber and plaster are exposed.
>
> Fachwerk is the German term for exposed timber walls with plaster
> infill. (See four above)
>
> Braced Frame is a term loosely differentiating a building from a stick
> framed or balloon framed building, and would appear to have come into
> use when these "lower quality" systems began to appear.
>
> The last term on the list (I'm adding one) would be post and beam and
> is
> a term commonly used to describe any building build with large timbers.
>
> Personally I use post and beam to describe buildings using heavy
> timbers
> that are connected with metal fasteners such as bolts, steel plates or
> nails. The Edison Laboratory was a post and beam/balloon frame hybrid.
> It did have 4x4 braces, but they were nailed in place. Timber framing
> is
> more often the term used to describe buildings built with heavy timbers
> connected with mortice and tenon joinery. These types of structures
> always have braces if they are Western European or American, and
> compression beams if they are Eastern. In Fachwerken the braces are
> often integrated into the medieval patterns in the walls.
>
> Clear as rad and dab?
>
> Rudy
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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>
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:53:13 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: "Donald B. White" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Roundheads
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Py--I know I am days late on this, but I hadn't checked my CompuServe ema=
il
in 5 days--you have found one of the key elements in American colonial
history that seems to be often overlooked, that is the connection between=
politics in the home country and their effect on the colonies. The Purita=
ns
were indeed the founders of some of the colonies--we call them the
Pilgrims--and who founded which colony affected its future development. =
Virginia was founded in 1607 by a private corporation started for the
purpose and headquarted in London. It was therefore closely allied with t=
he
"establishment" and business interests in England. It tended to be
conservative and conventional, and still is. =
Massachusetts was founded in 1620 by Puritan "Pilgrims" who were made
unwelcome in England, relocated to Holland, wanted a home of their own fr=
ee
from outside influences, and obtained permission to settle in Virginia. D=
ue
to a navigational error (or possibly by connivance) they were landed far
from Virginia (although virtually the entire English claim tended to be
called by that name) out of reach of English government influence. They h=
ad
also been set up as a private company but managed to have all their
directors as colonists and thus were the first of the colonies to be
self-governing. They sought freedom of worship, but only for their own
beliefs--dissent was not tolerated. Rhode Island was founded by a group
that split off from them. =
But in 1640 the Puritans in England took over the country, beheaded King
Charles I and instituted a theocratic, restrictive govermment. Suddenly t=
he
despised dissenters were running things, which they did for 26 years,
Charles II returning from exile in 1666. =
Maryland was founded in 1640 by Royalist "Cavaliers" who found it prudent=
to be out of England at this time. In other words, by the losing side in
the English Civil War. Interestingly, it was the only one of the 13
colonies to have religious freedom written into its original charter. =
Georgia was a prison colony.
Oh, yeah, and New York started off Dutch and got taken over by the Englis=
h
later.
These are just a few examples of the 13 colonies. =
Given that the roots of the tension between extremes we have all through
our society started with the original colonies, it's amazing they ever
decided to unite. Fear and greed are powerful. =
Don White
[log in to unmask]
www.DBWhite.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:52:26 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Roundheads
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In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Fear and greed are powerful.
Morgans are beautiful.
Ralph
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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, DonaldB=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Fear and greed are powerful. </FONT></BLOCKQUO=
TE></DIV>
<DIV>Morgans are beautiful.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:11:53 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I always thought the Morgans looked a little awkward and gangly. =20
(whistful sigh from the former owner of an MGA 1600. Enough time has=20
passed that I remember that there were the moments of joy scattered=20
among the hours of despair, destruction, repair, disappointment and=20
terror.)
-jc
On Apr 12, 2004, at 10:52 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> Fear and greed are powerful.
> Morgans are beautiful.
> =A0
> Ralph
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I always thought the Morgans looked a little awkward and gangly.=20
(whistful sigh from the former owner of an MGA 1600. Enough time has
passed that I remember that there were the moments of joy scattered
among the hours of despair, destruction, repair, disappointment and
terror.)
-jc
On Apr 12, 2004, at 10:52 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>In a message
dated 4/12/2004 10:55:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>Fear and greed are
powerful.</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller> Morgans are =
beautiful.</x-tad-smaller></fontfamily>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>=A0</x-tad-smaller></fontfa=
mily>
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-smaller>Ralph</x-tad-smaller></font=
family>
</excerpt>=
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:23 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Well, that worked out pretty much on target, didn't it?
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"Four years ago there was in this country one automobile to every 1,500,000
inhabitants. Two years ago there was one to every 6,500 inhabitants. To-day
there is one to every 1,200 inhabitants. Give us another five years, and they
will be as thick in this country as mosquitos on the Hackensack Meadows."
Winthrop E. Scarrett, former president of the Automobile Club of America ,
1905
-------------------------------1081804523
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">
<DIV><BR>"Four years ago there was in this country one automobile to every 1=
,500,000 inhabitants. Two years ago there was one to every 6,500 inhab=
itants. To-day there is one to every 1,200 inhabitants. Gi=
ve us another five years, and they will be as thick in this country as mosqu=
itos on the Hackensack Meadows." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Winthrop E. Scarrett, former president of the Automobile Club of Americ=
a , 1905 </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081804523--
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:20:26 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Well, that worked out pretty much on target, didn't it?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Kinda like the internet.
-jc
On Apr 12, 2004, at 4:15 PM, Met History wrote:
>
>
> "Four years ago there was in this country one automobile to every=20
> 1,500,000 inhabitants.=A0 Two years ago there was one to every 6,500=20=
> inhabitants.=A0 To-day there is one to every 1,200 inhabitants.=A0=A0 =
Give=20
> us another five years, and they will be as thick in this country as=20
> mosquitos on the Hackensack Meadows."=A0=A0
> =A0
> Winthrop E. Scarrett, former president of the Automobile Club of=20
> America , 1905
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Kinda like the internet.
-jc
On Apr 12, 2004, at 4:15 PM, Met History wrote:
<excerpt>
<bigger>"Four years ago there was in this country one automobile to
every 1,500,000 inhabitants.=A0 Two years ago there was one to every
6,500 inhabitants.=A0 To-day there is one to every 1,200 inhabitants.=A0=A0=
Give us another five years, and they will be as thick in this country
as mosquitos on the Hackensack Meadows."=A0=A0</bigger>
<bigger> =A0</bigger>
<bigger>Winthrop E. Scarrett, former president of the Automobile Club
of America , 1905</bigger>
</excerpt>=
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:58:00 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Walking the poodle: an Easter vigil ...
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Last night, Saturday, took the dog out around 11:55 PM, heard some =
sort of steel drums a few blocks farther north=20
Just then, double door to mansion opens, out walks procession=20
Christopher, sounds like some sort of universal multi-cultural =
Catholic/Pagan thing.
In Tucson, Arizona in the early '60s, there was a Yaqui Indian village =
as a wonderful anomaly within the boundaries of the city. The Yaqui =
people were in exile from Mexico and had no rights or benefits as US =
(American) Indians, and the whole village was sort of squatting with =
tacit permission on city land. Within the Yaqui village, both the old =
world and the new lived side by side and moment within moment, and =
perhaps the best example was the great Easter fest that went on for a =
week in the plaza in front of the Catholic church of the Yaqui village. =
Throughout the week there were proscribed Christian ceremonies at =
"Indian Time" intervals that tribal people seemed to know by collective =
intuition and white guys could only try to outguess if they wanted to =
see some particular event. It was amazing how a crowd would just =
congregate at "the right time." While we few "white guys" perpetually =
wasted our time at "waiting". On one side of the plaza was a little =
stick ramada providing shade for a traditional Yaqui trio of Deer =
Dancer, Flute Player and Drummer. In between each Christian pageant =
the Deer Dancer would do his stuff, patiently providing a natural and =
complementary alternative all week as the events unfolded. The two =
cultures blended into one - perpetual Yaqui.
The great climax of the week was at midnight on Easter Eve when the =
largest and most significant parade occurred. After waiting for hours =
for midnight to be agreed upon, we were treated to the great doors of =
the looming, silent and darkened church opening and a marvellous =
procession emerging with costumed figures carrying the church's life =
sized statues of the Holy figures. They proceeded with a jolly guitar =
band and blatantly jolly trumpet around the church to the right, =
accompanied by the crowd of watchers, really all participants by this =
time. When the parade was exactly behind the church, the intense and =
Holy darkness was suddenly shattered by cascades of gun fire and war =
whoops as a mob of hidden banditos leapt out from behind bushes and =
sheds firing cap guns at everything in sight. There was much leaping =
and shouting and general disruption of the parade with gun fire and war =
cries, but just as suddenly as it began, the whole thing ended and the =
noisy banditos vanished silently into the darkness. The parade =
continued around the church and back through the front doors into the =
darkened church and then all was quiet. The quiet was a weird =
anti-climax after all the excitement. Lots of people lingered in the =
plaza, waiting for something to balance the intense drama of a few =
minutes earlier, but the church doors remained closed and nothing else =
happened and eventually we all went home. We never even saw the =
processional people leave the church.
Happy Easter to all,
Indian Time,
cp in bc
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C420E9.FC6A24E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>Last night, Saturday, took the dog out around 11:55 PM, heard =
some sort=20
of steel drums a few blocks farther north </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just then, double door to mansion opens, out walks procession=20
</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Christopher, sounds like some sort =
of universal=20
multi-cultural Catholic/Pagan thing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In Tucson, Arizona in the early '60s, there was a Yaqui Indian =
village=20
as a wonderful anomaly within the boundaries of the city. =
The Yaqui=20
people were in exile from Mexico and had no rights or benefits as =
US=20
(American) Indians, and the whole village was sort of squatting with =
tacit=20
permission on city land. Within the Yaqui village, both =
the old=20
world and the new lived side by side and moment within moment, and =
perhaps the=20
best example was the great Easter fest that went on for a week in the =
plaza in=20
front of the Catholic church of the Yaqui village. =
Throughout the=20
week there were proscribed Christian ceremonies at "Indian Time" =
intervals that=20
tribal people seemed to know by collective intuition and white guys =
could only=20
try to outguess if they wanted to see some particular event. =
It was=20
amazing how a crowd would just congregate at "the right =
time." =20
While we few "white guys" perpetually wasted our time at =
"waiting". =20
On one side of the plaza was a little stick ramada providing shade=20
for a traditional Yaqui trio of Deer Dancer, Flute=20
Player and Drummer. In between each Christian pageant =
the Deer=20
Dancer would do his stuff, patiently providing a natural and=20
complementary alternative all week as the events =
unfolded. =20
The two cultures blended into one - perpetual Yaqui.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The great climax of the week was at midnight on Easter Eve =
when=20
the largest and most significant parade occurred. =
After=20
waiting for hours for midnight to be agreed upon, we were treated to the =
great=20
doors of the looming, silent and darkened church opening and =
a marvellous=20
procession emerging with costumed figures carrying the church's life=20
sized statues of the Holy figures. They proceeded with =
a jolly=20
guitar band and blatantly jolly trumpet around the church to the =
right,=20
accompanied by the crowd of watchers, really all participants by this=20
time. When the parade was exactly behind the church, the =
intense and=20
Holy darkness was suddenly shattered by cascades of gun fire =
and war=20
whoops as a mob of hidden banditos leapt out from behind bushes=20
and sheds firing cap guns at everything in sight. =
There=20
was much leaping and shouting and general disruption of the parade with =
gun fire=20
and war cries, but just as suddenly as it began, the whole thing ended =
and the=20
noisy banditos vanished silently into the darkness. The =
parade=20
continued around the church and back through the front doors into =
the=20
darkened church and then all was quiet. The quiet was a =
weird=20
anti-climax after all the excitement. Lots of people =
lingered in the=20
plaza, waiting for something to balance the intense drama of a few =
minutes=20
earlier, but the church doors remained closed and nothing else =
happened and=20
eventually we all went home. We never even saw the =
processional=20
people leave the church.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Happy Easter to all,</DIV>
<DIV>Indian Time,</DIV>
<DIV>cp in bc</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:23:10 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Walking the poodle: an Easter vigil ...
In-Reply-To: <003701c42124$ca46e6c0$181ac2cf@default>
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Cuyler Page wrote:
> When the parade was exactly behind the church, the intense and Holy
> darkness was suddenly shattered by cascades of gun fire and war whoops
> as a mob of hidden banditos leapt out from behind bushes
> and sheds firing cap guns at everything in sight. There was much
> leaping and shouting and general disruption of the parade with gun
> fire and war cries, but just as suddenly as it began, the whole thing
> ended and the noisy banditos vanished silently into the darkness.
CP,
Sounds to me like Trickster.
][<
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Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:25:38 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Roundheads
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Thanks Don; its all making sence....the cultural wars the country is
experiencing has been the same ol'crap all along "who would of thunk it" (besides
ralph that is )
and Chris the lament on Hackensack about cars
" will be as thick in this country as mosquitos on the Hackensack Meadows."
When I was a kid this no mans land fascinated me ; there were pig farms there
and little else except miles and miles of wet lands and occasional black
holes frequented by the Sopranos.... I recently read a turn of the century
account how the mosquitoes were so numerous that horses were known to run until they
dropped from loss of blood.....
now of course its prime real estate ...but what was the single most
technological development that enable them to build there ?/// Any takers ? Py
-------------------------------1081884338
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Thanks Don; its all making sence....the cultural wars the country is ex=
periencing has been the same ol'crap all along "who would of thunk it" (besi=
des ralph that is )</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>and Chris the lament on Hackensack about cars</DIV>
<DIV>" will be as thick in this country as mosquitos on the Hackensack=20=
Meadows."<BR>When I was a kid this no mans land fascinated me ; there were p=
ig farms there and little else except miles and miles of wet lands and occas=
ional black holes frequented by the Sopranos.... I recently read=20=
a turn of the century account how the mosquitoes were so numerous that horse=
s were known to run until they dropped from loss of blood.....</DIV>
<DIV>now of course its prime real estate ...but what was the single most tec=
hnological development that enable them to build there ?/// Any takers=20=
? Py </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081884338--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:45:12 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Roundheads
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In a message dated 4/13/2004 3:26:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
" will be as thick in this country as mosquitos on the Hackensack Meadows."
When I was a kid this no mans land fascinated me ; there were pig farms there
and little else except miles and miles of wet lands and occasional black
holes frequented by the Sopranos.... I recently read a turn of the century
account how the mosquitoes were so numerous that horses were known to run until they
dropped from loss of blood.....
now of course its prime real estate ...but what was the single most
technological development that enable them to build there ?/// Any takers ? Py
Missy Julep knows ALL about this stuff, including about when they made WWI
munitions there. But I suppose she's off in Nebraska with John Leeke. Or too
important and busy to play with little ol' us.
The question of how they drained the Meadowlands is interesting, but somehow
I doubt there was any big technological breakthrough involved in it. My guess
is somebody (like f'rinstance Mr. Hartz Mountain, who bought it) just decided
it was too valuable to allow to remain as a swamp and drained the damn thing.
Which reminds me, there's an actual address in Secaucus (pronounced
SEE-caucus, for you benighted non-Jerseyans, not see-CAUCUS) called 1 Frozen Food
Plaza. Is dis a great fuckin' state, or what? On the other hand, out on Lawn
Gyland Noo Yawk, my boss lives on Executive Drive, and it seems to me that name is
every bit as classy as Frozen Food Plaza.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081885512
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/13/2004 3:26:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, MSGuild@=
AOL.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>" will be as thick in this country as=20=
mosquitos on the Hackensack Meadows."<BR>When I was a kid this no mans land=20=
fascinated me ; there were pig farms there and little else except miles and=20=
miles of wet lands and occasional black holes frequented by the S=
opranos.... I recently read a turn of the century account how the mosquitoes=
were so numerous that horses were known to run until they dropped from loss=
of blood.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>now of course its prime real estate ...but=20=
what was the single most technological development that enable them to build=
there ?/// Any takers ? Py </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Missy Julep knows ALL about this stuff, including about when th=
ey made WWI munitions there. But I suppose she's off in Nebraska with=20=
John Leeke. Or too important and busy to play with little ol' us.</STR=
ONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>The question of how they drained the Meadowlands is interesting=
, but somehow I doubt there was any big technological breakthrough involved=20=
in it. My guess is somebody (like f'rinstance Mr. Hartz Mountain, who=20=
bought it) just decided it was too valuable to allow to remain as a swamp an=
d drained the damn thing.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Which reminds me, there's an actual address in Secaucus (p=
ronounced SEE-caucus, for you benighted non-Jerseyans, not see-CAUCUS) calle=
d 1 Frozen Food Plaza. Is dis a great fuckin' state, or what? On=
the other hand, out on Lawn Gyland Noo Yawk, my boss lives on Executiv=
e Drive, and it seems to me that name is every bit as classy as Frozen Food=20=
Plaza.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081885512--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:53:34 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Going Wild for the 'Pig Brother' Web Site
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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*Going Wild for the 'Pig Brother' Web Site*
BERLIN (Reuters) - A German Web site dubbed "Pig Brother" has attracted
more than a million visitors in under two weeks with its 24-hour live
Webcam coverage of a family of wild boar, the site's creators said Tuesday.
The site, launched in March by the German Hunting Protection League,
offers day and night coverage of three males, three females and more
than 50 offspring in an enclosure in their natural habitat of the Eifel
mountains in western Germany.
"The boar live freely in a natural environment but it so happens that
there is nearly always a boar in front of the camera," a spokeswoman for
the league said.
The site was set up shortly after the start of the latest German series
of the reality television show "Big Brother," which locks volunteers in
a house and films their every move.
The boar site -- www.wildtiere-live.de <http://www.wildtiere-live.de> --
attracted more than 1.5 million visitors and 400 guest book entries in
its first two weeks. "We have microphones in the enclosure. The mating
calls are very impressive," said the spokeswoman.
--Boundary_(ID_4ryRvnvMWWSmk9LcDnnACw)
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<b>Going Wild for the 'Pig Brother' Web Site</b> <br>
<br>
BERLIN (Reuters) - A German Web site dubbed "Pig Brother" has attracted
more than a million visitors in under two weeks with its 24-hour live
Webcam coverage of a family of wild boar, the site's creators said
Tuesday. <br>
<br>
The site, launched in March by the German Hunting Protection League,
offers day and night coverage of three males, three females and more
than 50 offspring in an enclosure in their natural habitat of the Eifel
mountains in western Germany. <br>
<br>
"The boar live freely in a natural environment but it so happens that
there is nearly always a boar in front of the camera," a spokeswoman
for the league said. <br>
<br>
The site was set up shortly after the start of the latest German series
of the reality television show "Big Brother," which locks volunteers in
a house and films their every move. <br>
<br>
The boar site -- <a href="http://www.wildtiere-live.de">www.wildtiere-live.de</a>
-- attracted more than 1.5 million visitors and 400 guest book entries
in its first two weeks. "We have microphones in the enclosure. The
mating calls are very impressive," said the spokeswoman.
</body>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:04:26 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/060037.asp
http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070742.asp
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/9/2004 11:29:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Now now Ralph. Calm down. You are sooooo sensitive! Fuckin' A
> right I am, goddammit. Its a wonder Mrs Ralph doesn't spend all
> her free time comforting you. Fat chance of THAT.
>
> If Leeke, or one of the other hammer swinging types doesn't jump
> in, I
> will go to them directly. However, it may comfort you to know that
> your thinking has value. I feel SO much better already. It
> confirmed that the two of us were reasoning similarly. Obviously,
> and obviously we were right. But, these hands have not done this
> work. And smart hands they are. So far, anyway. If yours have,
> then you have the advantage upon me. I did everything but remove
> the newel; mine (in Jersey City, at least) was nice and firm. The
> balusters there were easy and as described, and the handrail was
> made up of short sections nailed into the heavy main newel and
> into lesser (4x4) newels where the stair turned. In Summit,
> however, the little Ralphs and various other little bastards over
> the years have been jumping up and down the stairs and swinging
> from and leaning on the handrail and newel, which has quite a long
> cantilever up from the floor, and I've been afraid to attempt
> anything beyond yelling at the kids. My handrails here are also
> nailed into intermediate posts, thank God.
>
> However, long continuous handrails with hairpin turns, at least the
> ones that I have seen, are held together (at joints between sections
> of rail) with double-ended threaded rods and weird nuts that require
> an offset screwdriver (or something similar) to tighten up the butt
> joint between sections of handrail. I hope yours are not of this
> type, but if they are, for Chrissakes don't take the railing out
> altogether when you mess with the newel. I would open up the ceiling
> beneath the newel, and pray that the newel is anchored to a floor
> joist or a carriage piece or something and that you can rebolt the
> newel from below, and avoid messing up the finish floor.
>
> Can I go the hell to bed now? Thank you.
>
> Ralph
--
J.A. Drew Diaz
EDGE Development Construction
Suite 1205
150 W 28th St
NY, NY 10001
t 212.741.7348
f 212.741.7423
c 917.971.1577
e [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
w http://edgedc.com <http://edgedc.com/>
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<br>
<a href="http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/060037.asp">http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/060037.asp</a><br>
<a href="http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070742.asp">http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070742.asp</a><br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[log in to unmask]">
<meta charset="US-ASCII" http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; ">
<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name="GENERATOR">
<div>In a message dated 4/9/2004 11:29:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font
face="Arial">Now now Ralph. Calm down. You are sooooo sensitive! <strong>Fuckin'
A right I am, goddammit. </strong> Its a wonder Mrs Ralph doesn't
spend all her free time comforting you. <strong>Fat chance of THAT.</strong><br>
<br>
If Leeke, or one of the other hammer swinging types doesn't jump in, I <br>
will go to them directly. However, it may comfort you to know that <br>
your thinking has value. <strong>I feel SO much better already.</strong> It
confirmed that the two of us were reasoning similarly. <strong>Obviously,
and obviously we were right.</strong> But, these hands have not done
this work. <strong>And smart hands they are. So far, anyway. </strong>
If yours have, then you have the advantage upon me. <strong>I did
everything but remove the newel; mine (in Jersey City, at least) was
nice and firm. The balusters there were easy and as described, and the
handrail was made up of short sections nailed into the heavy main newel
and into lesser (4x4) newels where the stair turned. In Summit,
however, the little Ralphs and various other little bastards over the
years have been jumping up and down the stairs and swinging from and
leaning on the handrail and newel, which has quite a long cantilever up
from the floor, and I've been afraid to attempt anything beyond yelling
at the kids. My handrails here are also nailed into intermediate
posts, thank God. </strong></font></blockquote>
<div><font face="Arial"><strong>However, long continuous handrails
with hairpin turns, at least the ones that I have seen, are held
together (at joints between sections of rail) with double-ended
threaded rods and weird nuts that require an offset screwdriver (or
something similar) to tighten up the butt joint between sections of
handrail. I hope yours are not of this type, but if they are, for
Chrissakes don't take the railing out altogether when you mess with the
newel. I would open up the ceiling beneath the newel, and pray that
the newel is anchored to a floor joist or a carriage piece or something
and that you can rebolt the newel from below, and avoid messing up the
finish floor.</strong></font></div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font color="#400040">Can I go the hell to bed now?
Thank you.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font color="#400040">Ralph</font></strong></div>
<div><strong></strong></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">J.A.
Drew Diaz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">EDGE
Development Construction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Suite</span></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 1205</span></st1:address><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">150 W 28th St</span></st1:address></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">NY</span></st1:City><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">10001</st1:PostalCode></span></st1:place><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">t</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7348<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">f</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7423<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">c</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 917.971.1577<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">e</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">w</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="http://edgedc.com/">http://edgedc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:50:28 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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And then there was the time we were working on the haunted house-
a circa 1880 Mansion in Denver's 5 Points...
converting it to condo's....
one of the unique points about this place was the studs were some 6'
long so there were often 2 platforms in any given wall, was told it had
something to do with
a- lumber shortage post Civil War
b- lumber was actually resawn from diverted RR Ties..
in any case we were tearing out the old stair case and replacing it with
a new addition to code,
Rick and I up on the 4th floor w nothing like a fence or a rail. Rick
gives the Newel a whack with the sledge hammer and the fucking thing is
full of marbles which come spilling out-
just like disrupting the parade in Animal House...
Also found some maybe 20 hand made valentines cards from some little
girl to her class mates and evidently never handed out up in the ceiling
behind the plaster, kids clothes in walls, 6 or 7 steel cots in the
basement that looked like a torture chamber.....
John Callan wrote:
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:10:34 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: so what's the deal on...
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potassium iodide. are we all getting it, or is that just too paranoid? FDA
finds it "indicated" in Chernobyl-like (and, implicitly, other) conditions.
Christopher Gray
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">potassium iodide. are we all getti=
ng it, or is that just too paranoid? FDA finds it "indicated" in Chern=
obyl-like (and, implicitly, other) conditions. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher Gray</FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:57:28 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bruce Marcham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
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It was distributed within a certain range of Oswego, NY (about 50 miles =
NNW of Syracuse). That town has three reactors on the outskirts (maybe =
seven miles east on the edge of Lake Ontario).=20
=20
I think you could get it if you lived or worked within maybe a ten mile =
radius of the plants or some such thing. Maybe others could get them if =
they wanted them (I gather they're available at drug stores).
=20
There is a pretty good-sized SUNY University (8500 students) within that =
ring so I wonder how it goes over with the students to have that in =
their "welcome to the university" packet. Kinda introduces them the life =
in the real world.
=20
Go here for more specific (or informed) information:
=20
http://www.co.oswego.ny.us/emo/ki.html
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Met =
History
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [BP] so what's the deal on...
potassium iodide. are we all getting it, or is that just too paranoid? =
FDA finds it "indicated" in Chernobyl-like (and, implicitly, other) =
conditions.=20
=20
Christopher Gray
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>It was distributed within a =
certain range of=20
Oswego, NY (about 50 miles NNW of Syracuse). That town has three =
reactors on the=20
outskirts (maybe seven miles east on the edge of Lake=20
Ontario). </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>I think you could get it if you =
lived or=20
worked within maybe a ten mile radius of the plants or some such =
thing.=20
Maybe others could get them if they wanted them (I gather they're =
available at=20
drug stores).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>There is a pretty good-sized SUNY =
University=20
(8500 students) within that ring so I wonder how it goes over with the =
students=20
to have that in their "welcome to the university" packet. Kinda =
introduces=20
them the life in the real world.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>Go here for more specific (or =
informed)=20
information:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004><A=20
href=3D"http://www.co.oswego.ny.us/emo/ki.html">http://www.co.oswego.ny.u=
s/emo/ki.html</A></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice, it`s=20
help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Met=20
History<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:11 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BP] so =
what's=20
the deal on...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">potassium iodide. are we all =
getting=20
it, or is that just too paranoid? FDA finds it "indicated" in=20
Chernobyl-like (and, implicitly, other) conditions. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher=20
Gray</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:03:19 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
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In a message dated 4/14/2004 6:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Maybe others could get them if they wanted them (I gather they're available
at drug stores).
Right, it wasn't "can we get it" it's "are we getting it", i.e. do we think
its just more ridiculous aol-type fear-mongering? c
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/14/2004 6:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, bmarcham=
@ESF.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004><FONT face=3DArial>Maybe others=20=
could get them if they wanted them (I gather they're available at drug store=
s).</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Right, it wasn't "can we get it" it's "a=
re we getting it", i.e. do we think its just more ridiculous aol-type fear-m=
ongering? c </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081983799--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:51:14 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Going Wild for the 'Pig Brother' Web Site
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Speaking of wild boar, while attending the recent USICOMOS conference in
Natchitoches (sp?) Louisiana, I was lodged at the same B&B as a young reporter
from the Washington POst, ex of the New Orleans Times Picayune. He was covering
the nearby Whitfield, LA "Uncle Earl's Hog Dog Trials". Turns out that the H/D
trials are an opportunity for specially trained dogs to run down wild boar
after which a mounted personage dismounts his steed and dispatches the boar with
a knife to the throat. These dogs are hot stuff. The hog roast comes on
Sunday. So here we were yacking about "cultural landscapes" while the real thing
was going on down the road a piece. Uncle Earl was none other than Earl Long,
brother of Huey, the Kingfish. Earl was governor as well and was able to rule
for a time from an insane asylum. Whoooeee.
Damn Yankee
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<DIV>Speaking of wild boar, while attending the recent USICOMOS conference i=
n Natchitoches (sp?) Louisiana, I was lodged at the same B&B as a young=20=
reporter from the Washington POst, ex of the New Orleans Times Picayun=
e. He was covering the nearby Whitfield, LA "Uncle Earl's Hog Dog Trials". T=
urns out that the H/D trials are an opportunity for specially trained dogs t=
o run down wild boar after which a mounted personage dismounts his steed and=
dispatches the boar with a knife to the throat. These dogs are hot stuff. T=
he hog roast comes on Sunday. So here we were yacking about "cultural landsc=
apes" while the real thing was going on down the road a piece. Uncle Ea=
rl was none other than Earl Long, brother of Huey, the Kingfish. Earl was go=
vernor as well and was able to rule for a time from an insane asylum. Whoooe=
ee.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Damn Yankee</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081990274--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:58:02 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Donald, It is my understanding that the Pilgrims came to MA first, they
started the Plymouth colony and they separated from the Anglican church.
The Puritans came later started the Mass Bay Colony and they wanted to
reform the Anglican church not separate from it. Ruth
At 10:53 AM -0400 4/12/04, Donald B. White wrote:
>Py--I know I am days late on this, but I hadn't checked my CompuServe email
>in 5 days--you have found one of the key elements in American colonial
>history that seems to be often overlooked, that is the connection between
>politics in the home country and their effect on the colonies. The Puritans
>were indeed the founders of some of the colonies--we call them the
>Pilgrims--and who founded which colony affected its future development.
>
>Virginia was founded in 1607 by a private corporation started for the
>purpose and headquarted in London. It was therefore closely allied with the
>"establishment" and business interests in England. It tended to be
>conservative and conventional, and still is.
>
>Massachusetts was founded in 1620 by Puritan "Pilgrims" who were made
>unwelcome in England, relocated to Holland, wanted a home of their own free
>from outside influences, and obtained permission to settle in Virginia. Due
>to a navigational error (or possibly by connivance) they were landed far
>from Virginia (although virtually the entire English claim tended to be
>called by that name) out of reach of English government influence. They had
>also been set up as a private company but managed to have all their
>directors as colonists and thus were the first of the colonies to be
>self-governing. They sought freedom of worship, but only for their own
>beliefs--dissent was not tolerated. Rhode Island was founded by a group
>that split off from them.
>
>But in 1640 the Puritans in England took over the country, beheaded King
>Charles I and instituted a theocratic, restrictive govermment. Suddenly the
>despised dissenters were running things, which they did for 26 years,
>Charles II returning from exile in 1666.
>
>Maryland was founded in 1640 by Royalist "Cavaliers" who found it prudent
>to be out of England at this time. In other words, by the losing side in
>the English Civil War. Interestingly, it was the only one of the 13
>colonies to have religious freedom written into its original charter.
>
>Georgia was a prison colony.
>
>Oh, yeah, and New York started off Dutch and got taken over by the English
>later.
>
>These are just a few examples of the 13 colonies.
>
>Given that the roots of the tension between extremes we have all through
>our society started with the original colonies, it's amazing they ever
>decided to unite. Fear and greed are powerful.
>
>Don White
>[log in to unmask]
>www.DBWhite.com
>
>--
>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
><http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:47 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: walking the poodle
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In a message dated Kyler wrote
When the parade was exactly behind the church, the intense and =
Holy darkness was suddenly shattered by cascades of gun fire and war =
whoops as a mob of hidden banditos leapt out from behind bushes and =
sheds firing cap guns at everything in sight. There was much leaping =
and shouting and general disruption of the parade with gun fire and war =
cries, but just as suddenly as it began, the whole thing ended and the =
noisy banditos vanished silently into the darkness.
I know this festival, well its eastern counterpart anyway , feast of the
bagofdonuts
or some such held in little Italy (It-lee) around the corner from cafe Reggio
and the Chin's old hang out where our union dues went ......I can smell the
sausage sandwiches now ; .
the costumes were the best ; tee shirts with the straps and alot of gold arm
in arm with teased hair piled high and mascara ..wow Py....
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f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated Kyler wrote </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>When the parade was exactly behind the church,=
the intense and =3D<BR>Holy darkness was suddenly shattered by cascades of=20=
gun fire and war =3D<BR>whoops as a mob of hidden banditos leapt out from be=
hind bushes and =3D<BR>sheds firing cap guns at everything in sight. &n=
bsp; There was much leaping =3D<BR>and shouting and general disruption of th=
e parade with gun fire and war =3D<BR>cries, but just as suddenly as it bega=
n, the whole thing ended and the =3D<BR>noisy banditos vanished silently int=
o the darkness. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>I know this festival, well its eastern counterpart anyway , feast=
of the bagofdonuts</DIV>
<DIV>or some such held in little Italy (It-lee) around the corner from cafe=20=
Reggio and the Chin's old hang out where our union dues went ...=
...I can smell the sausage sandwiches now ; .</DIV>
<DIV>the costumes were the best ; tee shirts with the straps and alot of gol=
d arm in arm with teased hair piled high and mascara .=
.wow Py....</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1081995527--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:28:36 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1081996116"
-------------------------------1081996116
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In a message dated 4/14/2004 6:10:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
potassium iodide. are we all getting it, or is that just too paranoid? FDA
finds it "indicated" in Chernobyl-like (and, implicitly, other) conditions.
Dubya says nothin' to worry about. At least, that's what I think he said.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081996116
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/14/2004 6:10:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">potassium iodide. are we all getti=
ng it, or is that just too paranoid? FDA finds it "indicated" in Chern=
obyl-like (and, implicitly, other) conditions. </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></D=
IV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Dubya says nothin' to worry about. =20=
At least, that's what I think he said.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:33:17 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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-------------------------------1081996396
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In a message dated 4/14/2004 7:04:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Right, it wasn't "can we get it" it's "are we getting it", i.e. do we think
its just more ridiculous aol-type fear-mongering? c
Well, I can tell you I'm sure as hell not getting any.
Oh, you mean that potassium dichromate. Never mind.
Ralph
-------------------------------1081996396
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/14/2004 7:04:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Right, it wasn't "can we get it" it's "a=
re we getting it", i.e. do we think its just more ridiculous aol-type fear-m=
ongering? c </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Well, I can tell you I'm sure as hell not=
getting any.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Oh, you mean that potassium dichromate.&n=
bsp; Never mind.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:11:47 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: fiddeling with table tops
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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-------------------------------1082002307
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Pyrate here ..so whats a stone mason doing fiddiling with table tops ;
the school house is moving into its spring season; Im working on my monolouge
for the opening act ( two dogs and a hobo) when it occured to me that the
good people of this parish are paying two bits to get in and they don't have a
table .
A farmer friend showed me how you take a used disc( from a tractor) and stick
weld a pipe to it with a center rod up through the pipe ; then stick weld
light angle iron with an x pattern to it at the top of pipe to recieve a piece of
plywood .
Plywood comes down and is anchored by the center rod being counter sunk from
the top and screw tight up from the bottom to steady it and viola (as they
say in hackensack) a table .
Now I am looking for a clear resin (not poly) I can pour over the painted
top . Note top is to have old post cards ect already glued on it . and any and
all suggestions or simular experience greatly appreciated . I have about 20
tables but more are on the way.
cost effective answer gets you two ducats for opening night Ps bring
handbuzzers and noseglasses so I know its you.... Pyrate
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Pyrate here ..so whats a stone mason doing fiddiling with table tops ;=20=
</DIV>
<DIV>the school house is moving into its spring season; Im working on my mon=
olouge</DIV>
<DIV>for the opening act ( two dogs and a hobo) when it occured to me that t=
he good people of this parish are paying two bits to get in and they d=
on't have a table .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A farmer friend showed me how you take a used disc( from a tractor) and=
stick weld a pipe to it with a center rod up through the pipe ; then stick=20=
weld light angle iron with an x pattern to it at the top of pipe to recieve=20=
a piece of plywood .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Plywood comes down and is anchored by the center rod being counter sunk=
from the top and screw tight up from the bottom to steady it and=
viola (as they say in hackensack) a table .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now I am looking for a clear resin (not poly) I can pour over the=
painted top . Note top is to have old post cards ect already glued on it .&=
nbsp; and any and all suggestions or simular experience greatly a=
ppreciated . I have about 20 tables but more are on the way.</DIV>
<DIV>cost effective answer gets you two ducats for opening night Ps bring&nb=
sp;handbuzzers and noseglasses so I know its you....&nb=
sp;Pyrate </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082002307--
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:30:32 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: fiddeling with table tops
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1082028632"
-------------------------------1082028632
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Py,
Try fiberglass if you don't want to use some sort of polyurethane/varnish
sort of stuff, but I fail to see why you wouldn't want the polyurethane. Even a
water-based floor varnish/poly.
Ralph
-------------------------------1082028632
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Py,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Try fiberglass if you don't want to use some sort of polyurethane/varni=
sh sort of stuff, but I fail to see why you wouldn't want the polyurethane.&=
nbsp; Even a water-based floor varnish/poly.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:52:03 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
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I'm a little slow on the uptake (busy week). Residents of Webster get =
potassium iodide because of the Ginne plant. Xerox is within the ring, =
but I'm not sure the employees are handed it. I never worked in that =
installation, although it's the biggest Xerox campus (excepting maybe =
Xerox Parc).
=20
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bruce =
Marcham
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] so what's the deal on...
=09
=09
It was distributed within a certain range of Oswego, NY (about 50 miles =
NNW of Syracuse). That town has three reactors on the outskirts (maybe =
seven miles east on the edge of Lake Ontario).=20
=20
I think you could get it if you lived or worked within maybe a ten mile =
radius of the plants or some such thing. Maybe others could get them if =
they wanted them (I gather they're available at drug stores).
=20
There is a pretty good-sized SUNY University (8500 students) within =
that ring so I wonder how it goes over with the students to have that in =
their "welcome to the university" packet. Kinda introduces them the life =
in the real world.
=20
Go here for more specific (or informed) information:
=20
http://www.co.oswego.ny.us/emo/ki.html
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Met =
History
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [BP] so what's the deal on...
=09
=09
potassium iodide. are we all getting it, or is that just too =
paranoid? FDA finds it "indicated" in Chernobyl-like (and, implicitly, =
other) conditions.=20
=20
Christopher Gray
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D335165018-15042004>I'm a little slow on the uptake (busy =
week). =20
Residents of Webster get potassium iodide because of the Ginne =
plant. =20
Xerox is within the ring, but I'm not sure the employees are handed =
it. I=20
never worked in that installation, although it's the biggest Xerox =
campus=20
(excepting maybe Xerox Parc).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D335165018-15042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D335165018-15042004>- Pam</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This =
isn`t an=20
orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Bruce=20
Marcham<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:57 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP] =
so=20
what's the deal on...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>It was distributed within a =
certain range=20
of Oswego, NY (about 50 miles NNW of Syracuse). That town has three =
reactors=20
on the outskirts (maybe seven miles east on the edge of Lake=20
Ontario). </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>I think you could get it if you =
lived or=20
worked within maybe a ten mile radius of the plants or some such =
thing.=20
Maybe others could get them if they wanted them (I gather they're =
available at=20
drug stores).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>There is a pretty good-sized =
SUNY=20
University (8500 students) within that ring so I wonder how it goes =
over with=20
the students to have that in their "welcome to the university"=20
packet. Kinda introduces them the life in the real =
world.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004>Go here for more specific (or =
informed)=20
information:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329264522-14042004><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.co.oswego.ny.us/emo/ki.html">http://www.co.oswego.ny.u=
s/emo/ki.html</A></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Met=20
History<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:11 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BP] so =
what's=20
the deal on...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">potassium iodide. are we =
all getting=20
it, or is that just too paranoid? FDA finds it "indicated" in=20
Chernobyl-like (and, implicitly, other) conditions. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher=20
Gray</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:23:52 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1082057031"
-------------------------------1082057031
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In a message dated 4/15/2004 2:52:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
I'm a little slow on the uptake (busy week). Residents of Webster get
potassium iodide because of the Ginne plant. Xerox is within the ring, but I'm not
sure the employees are handed it. I never worked in that installation,
although it's the biggest Xerox campus (excepting maybe Xerox Parc).
Or maybe you're a little slow on the uptake because of the potassium iodide.
Or lack thereof.
Mr. Helpful Suggestions
Mr. S
-------------------------------1082057031
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/15/2004 2:52:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, pssisd@R=
IT.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D335=
165018-15042004>I'm a little slow on the uptake (busy week). Residents=
of Webster get potassium iodide because of the Ginne plant. Xero=
x is within the ring, but I'm not sure the employees are handed it. I=20=
never worked in that installation, although it's the biggest Xerox campus (e=
xcepting maybe Xerox Parc).</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Or maybe you're a little slow on the uptake because of the potassium io=
dide. Or lack thereof.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Helpful Suggestions</DIV>
<DIV>Mr. S</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:21:24 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
In-Reply-To: <a04310106bca3aa42d621@[216.114.165.163]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Listening to the tail end of a Teri (sp) Gross - Fresh Air interview a
few weeks back, some new book @ New Amsterdam..
Author Says that the single thing that really made what would
eventtually be NY work was the Dutch decision to make the colony
religion neutral.....
Ruth Barton wrote:
>Donald, It is my understanding that the Pilgrims came to MA first, they
>started the Plymouth colony and they separated from the Anglican church.
>The Puritans came later started the Mass Bay Colony and they wanted to
>reform the Anglican church not separate from it. Ruth
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:36:21 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: so what's the deal on...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Mr HS/S -
Could be cuz I'm stuck in the basement - don't see daylight except when =
I go get food - they do let me out for that activity.
=20
- Ms P
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 3:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] so what's the deal on...
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/15/2004 2:52:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
I'm a little slow on the uptake (busy week). Residents of Webster get =
potassium iodide because of the Ginne plant. Xerox is within the ring, =
but I'm not sure the employees are handed it. I never worked in that =
installation, although it's the biggest Xerox campus (excepting maybe =
Xerox Parc).
Or maybe you're a little slow on the uptake because of the potassium =
iodide. Or lack thereof.
=20
Mr. Helpful Suggestions
Mr. S
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D917153513-16042004>Dear Mr HS/S -</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D917153513-16042004>Could be cuz I'm stuck in the basement - =
don't see=20
daylight except when I go get food - they do let me out for that=20
activity.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D917153513-16042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D917153513-16042004>-=20
Ms P</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 15, 2004 3:24=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] so what's the deal on...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/15/2004 2:52:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN=20
class=3D335165018-15042004>I'm a little slow on the uptake (busy =
week). =20
Residents of Webster get potassium iodide because of the Ginne=20
plant. Xerox is within the ring, but I'm not sure the =
employees are=20
handed it. I never worked in that installation, although it's =
the=20
biggest Xerox campus (excepting maybe Xerox=20
Parc).</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Or maybe you're a little slow on the uptake because of the =
potassium=20
iodide. Or lack thereof.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Helpful Suggestions</DIV>
<DIV>Mr. S</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C423B7.CDEFC271--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:37:20 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "overhand construction" (copy to Tim Lynch)
X-cc: [log in to unmask]
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It's funny that Tim Lynch, from Robert Silman Associates, called this morning
- because of a dream I had last night. From Tim (this morning) I learned a
new term: overhand construction. Tim comes from a construction family in
Ireland, studied at Trinity Dublin. He was investigating two small Broadway
buildings in Times Square, put up around the Civil War time, little 4 story brick
things.
Peeking back through a 1" space between the side walls, he could see that the
pointing on one wall was clean, the joints raked nice and even - that meant
that that wall had originally faced onto an open area. But the other wall was
built later, and the mason couldn't reach the outside of that wall, so he
could see the mortar just squoodged out - he pushed the brick down, and the mortar
flowed out of the joint on the side he couldn't reach. "Overhand
construction" - he said. Says he didn't learn it in school, heard of it "just knockin'
around".
That was this morning - but last night, I had a dream that woke me up at five
am. I was working in a small town somewhere, I noticed the sidewall of a 4
story brick row building, which was being stripped of a failing coat of heavy
stucco.
I could see - in the dream - that with the stucco freshly removed that day -
the crew had gone home - I could see an unusual condition which I could not at
first quite understand, since it was barely visible: you could see the
outline entire run of the second floor (end-on joist construction, with sleepers
and floorboards on top), running front to back, perhaps 60 feet in all. But it
was sagging as much as a foot in the two spans - it was supported in the
middle by a lally column. (Who was Lally, anyway?)
It became apparent that this wasn't an end wall that had been stuccoed --
rather it was an interior wall, exposed long ago by the demolition of an adjacent
building. But when the building was demolished, the wall dividing the two
was also demolished, removing (somehow) the supports for the second floor joists
of the surviving building.
For 10 or 20 years, the interior (non-structural) wall surface, friction,
luck, and exterior coating of stucco had kept the second floor in place. But
with the removal of the stucco, and with the intervening deterioration of the
building, the floor joists were creeping down, in two great reversed arcs. Soon
- perhaps in minutes - the floor would sag so far that it would tip up the
sidewall on the opposite side, and also bring down the 3rd and 4th floors.
In the dream, I kept trying to find a phone, but the pay phones were broken,
and no one in town had a cell phone. I wanted to call the Silman office, to
see what I should do. But then I realized it was the end of the day, and
they'd have that damned recording on, and I'd just have to work through the
voicemail directory and try every damned extension until I got someone working late.
But I couldn't find a phone. Meanwhile, I was watching the floors sag,
and sag, and sag. That's what woke me up.
Before Tim called this morning - as I was walking the poodle on the finger
pier park that juts out into the Hudson River at 66th Street, with a clear view
of southern Manhattan - I was thinking that the sky will never, ever, ever be
that blue again.
Best to all, Christopher
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It's funny that Tim Lynch, fro=
m Robert Silman Associates, called this morning - because of a dream I had l=
ast night. From Tim (this morning) I learned a new term: ov=
erhand construction. Tim comes from a construction family in Ire=
land, studied at Trinity Dublin. He was investigating two small Broadw=
ay buildings in Times Square, put up around the Civil War time, little 4 sto=
ry brick things. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Peeking back through a 1" space between=20=
the side walls, he could see that the pointing on one wall was clean, the jo=
ints raked nice and even - that meant that that wall had originally faced on=
to an open area. But the other wall was built later, and the mason cou=
ldn't reach the outside of that wall, so he could see the mortar just s=
quoodged out - he pushed the brick down, and the mortar flowed out of the jo=
int on the side he couldn't reach. "Overhand construction" - he=20=
said. Says he didn't learn it in school, heard of it "just knocki=
n' around".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">That was this morning - but last night,=20=
I had a dream that woke me up at five am. I was working in a small tow=
n somewhere, I noticed the sidewall of a 4 story brick row building, wh=
ich was being stripped of a failing coat of heavy stucco. </FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I could see - in the dream - that with t=
he stucco freshly removed that day - the crew had gone home - I could see an=
unusual condition which I could not at first quite understand, since it was=
barely visible: you could see the outline entire run of the second fl=
oor (end-on joist construction, with sleepers and floorboards on top), runni=
ng front to back, perhaps 60 feet in all. But it was sagging as much a=
s a foot in the two spans - it was supported in the middle by a lally column=
. (Who was Lally, anyway?) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">It became apparent that this wasn't an e=
nd wall that had been stuccoed -- rather it was an interior wall, expos=
ed long ago by the demolition of an adjacent building. But when the bu=
ilding was demolished, the wall dividing the two was also demolished, removi=
ng (somehow) the supports for the second floor joists of the surviving build=
ing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">For 10 or 20 years, the interior (n=
on-structural) wall surface, friction, luck, and exterior coating of stucco=20=
had kept the second floor in place. But with the removal of the stucco=
, and with the intervening deterioration of the building, the floor joists w=
ere creeping down, in two great reversed arcs. Soon - perhaps in minut=
es - the floor would sag so far that it would tip up the sidewall on the opp=
osite side, and also bring down the 3rd and 4th floors. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">In the dream, I kept trying to find a ph=
one, but the pay phones were broken, and no one in town had a cell pho=
ne. I wanted to call the Silman office, to see what I should do. =
But then I realized it was the end of the day, and they'd have that damned=20=
recording on, and I'd just have to work through the voicemail directory and=20=
try every damned extension until I got someone working late. But=
I couldn't find a phone. Meanwhile, I was watching the fl=
oors sag, and sag, and sag. That's what woke me up. =20=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Before Tim called this morning -&nb=
sp;as I was walking the poodle on the finger pier park that juts out in=
to the Hudson River at 66th Street, with a clear view of southern Manha=
ttan - I was thinking that the sky will never, ever, ever be that blue=20=
again. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Best to all, Christopher </F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082133440--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:08:15 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: "overhand construction" (copy to Tim Lynch)
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Well, presumably it wasn't Silman's job, so it wasn't Silman's problem. Not
contractually, anyway.
Besides which, Silman was in New York, and you were out in Sandpit, Iowa
[note literary allusion, for any other Babbitt aficionados out there) or some
other damn place where Silman wasn't. You should have called the local building
department, if they have one in Sandpit, Iowa, or the cops and/or fire
department. Probably not much to be done at the point you describe but to make sure
the locals don't wander into the collapsing interior of this building.
Other than that, I am relieved to hear that I'm not the only one who has such
architecturally detailed dreams. My shrinks have always been very surprised
by these dreams, but they seem normal enough to me. Which leads me to the
question of what do porno stars dream?
Hope Tim is well. Give him my best.
Ralph
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Well, presumably it wasn't Silman's job,=20=
so it wasn't Silman's problem. Not contractually, anyway. </FONT>=
</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Besides which, Silman was in New York, an=
d you were out in Sandpit, Iowa [note literary allusion, for any other <U>Ba=
bbitt</U> aficionados out there) or some other damn place where Silman wasn'=
t. You should have called the local building department, if they have=20=
one in Sandpit, Iowa, or the cops and/or fire department. Probably not=
much to be done at the point you describe but to make sure the locals don't=
wander into the collapsing interior of this building.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Other than that, I am relieved to hear th=
at I'm not the only one who has such architecturally detailed dreams. =20=
My shrinks have always been very surprised by these dreams, but they se=
em normal enough to me. Which leads me to the question of what do=
porno stars dream?</FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Hope Tim is well. Give him my best.</FONT=
></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082135295--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:00:55 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "overhand construction"
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Met History wrote:
> I could see - in the dream - that with the stucco freshly removed that
> day - the crew had gone home
Dreams? Silman's office worked on the Staten Island Lighthouse I think
in 86 or thereabouts. I was the 'young' field supervisor for the
contractor doing the work. The lighthouse had been struck by lightning a
few times and the octagonal brick column was split, they thought but did
not know for sure and they did not know exactly where. The job was to
remove the outer wythe of tan brick & replace it. My employer, being the
low bidders that they were, hired a demolition crew that had no idea
about either histo presto or structural integrity. At the top of the
masonry column sat the cast iron cabin of the light, with a cantilevered
walkway. It was pretty solid built and had to weigh a few 10's of tons.
So the crew starts stripping the outer wythe, push push push production
and as they are going along they expose this VERY large crack in the
masonry back-up that goes all the way through the column. We are talking
not crack gages for hairlines but shove your hand in it and see how far
it goes before you get bit sort of crack. I come up on the scaffolding
and see this... I had not been instructed that I would need to stand
there and hold their hands as at the time of my innocence I figured if
you hired someone then they had better pretty much have an idea what
they are doing. They were still running like mad apes tearing the brick
off and throwing it down the chute and were like 6 feet lower already
with removing the brick. I freaked. They had no idea what my problem
was. Sometimes English to English is no good and you got to take away
their hammers and scream and throw a tantrum. Nobody in the company when
I called responded... too far away from the main office on lung island
to send anyone out. I'll say that night I had some rough sleep wondering
if I'd come back the next morning and find the top of the lighthouse
crashed down on the ground. It was near to the only FLW house w/in NYC,
I believe, as well as a Tibetan museum.
All this to say that sometimes when you have dreams about buildings
falling over it is because they might really fall over.
Then there was that job from hell in which I dreamed the night before
one of our weekly meetings that my son had died. A pivotal experience
for the project and the repercussions of the following morning at the
meeting still haunt me.
Also, say hello to Tim, please. But please also let him have his sleep
and don't be calling him in his dreams no more (a word from Shaman). As
to overhand construction I suspect you got to get out and knock around a
bit more with the literary trades set -- there is a whole bunch of neat
terms that don't get taught in schools. Keep in mind somebody built it
first before it had a name.
I'll be at R&R in Boston next week w/ the need to fill up and animate a
10 x 40 floor space that Restore Media has donated in support of the
Zabludow Synagogue Project. Anybody around the trade floor then stop
over. We got Preservation Trades Network, the Timber Framers Guild, the
International Log Builders Association and as of this week the Stone
Foundation all lined up working together to provide the traditional
trades know-how of process and go build this 17th century log & timber
synagogue in Poland -- once we got enough $$. And some of us are working
on an international glossary of traditional trade terms as well. We are
also doing an hour long dog & pony show at the R&R on Saturday 11 to
noon I suspect.
Preservation Volunteers has their website up now at
www.preservationvolunteers.org
Any questions about PV please ask me... or better yet, ask Clem Labine.
][<en
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:52:25 -0400
Reply-To: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Historic HomeWorks
Subject: R&R Conference
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Ken:
>>And some of us are working
on an international glossary of traditional trade terms as well.
This sounds interesting. I'll try to connect with you on Wed. or Thur..
Perhaps I can get my ongoing labor-trade-craft-artisan-artist definitions
incorporated.
John
by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:28:17 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: R&R Conference
X-To: "John Leeke, Preservation Consultant"
<[log in to unmask]>
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John Leeke, Preservation Consultant wrote:
>on an international glossary of traditional trade terms as well.
>
>This sounds interesting. I'll try to connect with you on Wed. or Thur..
>Perhaps I can get my ongoing labor-trade-craft-artisan-artist definitions
>incorporated.
>
Excellent! See ya bro!
][<
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:55:27 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Rise and Fall of Heroes
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This is a TOUGH read.
][<
March 21, 2004, 0910
The Rise and Fall of Heroes
Cynthia A. Kuehner, LCDR, NC, USN, FNP
The following account is my personal experience of events spanning
Midday March 18, 2004 through the evening of March 20, 2004:
I’ve been on the MEK Compound near Fallujah, in Iraq, for eleven days. I
am a Family Nurse Practitioner in the United States Navy, billeted here
as a Critical Care Nurse, a member of Bravo Surgical Company. Our
Surgical Company “Minus” (meaning we aren’t fully staffed with the
assets of a full Surgical Company) is awaiting arrival of our supplies
and equipment from Kuwait (scheduled to be delivered via convoy sometime
today). We are deployed in support of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
out of Camp Pendleton, California.
Over the last week or so, the replacement of the Army’s 82nd Airborne,
by our Marines, has become more apparent throughout the Compound.
Dessert woodland uniforms are seen less as the Marine Corps’ “dessert
digitals” fill in the canvas of people now occupying the Compound.
Remaining Army personnel volunteered to dine in the Satellite Chow Hall,
while we new arrivals are required to “subsist” in the Main Dining
Facility. I assume this is to prevent the unavoidable skirmishes, that
casually break out over excessively cooked carrots, when young men
discuss the differences in their respective services, filled with the
pride and the knowing that “... my Corps is better than your Corps, and
we’re going to kick ass and take names, since you didn’t.” There is some
derogatory graffiti in the Port-a-John outside my barracks that says,
“The 82nd Airborne takes care of Fallujah like I.N.S. takes care of
Mexicans.” Boys and their talk...
The Army Medical Company that we are replacing is “Charlie Med”
comprised of a surgical unit and a medical unit. The sign outside the
building reads, “The Animal Clinic.” Animal is their nickname - like a
pilot’s call sign - but when you’re new to the Compound, you wonder if
there is some sort of veterinary medicine going on here. Our sign will
read, “Bravo Surgical Company, Cheaters of Death.” These are the things
we do to make us feel better about who we are, unite a team, promote
esprit de corps.
Transitioning with the Army hasn’t been without difficulty. They have
their own acronyms, their own structure, their unique methods. No one
way of doing things is better than another, but the members of Bravo
Surgical Company have encountered some challenges as we take the
structure of our group and try to figure out how it will work to build
on, reinforce, and ultimately replace what the Army was doing. They have
done an awesome job and accomplished much.
It is easy to be the new guy and to immediately size up the
inefficiencies, lay out solutions, and fantasize about the ease with
which we’ll put together a well-oiled, level II casualty receiving,
surgically-intervening, post-operatively caring, and MEDEVAC-ing unit –
ready for anything that comes our way. We are emergency room physicians,
surgeons, nurses, Hospital Corpsmen, physician assistants, nurse
practitioners, internists, lab, radiology, and pharmacy technicians.
Among us, we have all the talent and skills that are needed to fulfill
our duties. But as is typical of the Navy, or any other branch of the
military, we are a group of normal people, from everywhere in the
country, from Balboa to Bethesda, from Corpus Christi to Whidby Island,
and we are thrown together with a developing mission and the expectation
that we will all work well together and accomplish the task at hand.
What a strange concept. Yet, it is normal to us.
We have been asking the Army for an orientation to their mass casualty
(mass cal) plan, knowing that they have been here for about 8 months.
They responded to the downed MEDEVAC helicopter, they have seen the
trauma, they have been here, living it. Feeling that if we could pull
off a mass cal, we could handle anything else, we wanted to know the
details... How do the casualties come in? Where does the communication
come from? Where do you organize your staff? Did you have enough help?
What was the highest number you could handle? Did you have adequate
equipment, supplies? Who arranged the MEDEVACS? We did a table top
discussion of the mass casualty plan on the 17th. It was like pulling
teeth. One Sergeant did most of the talking. I wondered if he had been
gone on emergency leave, who would know all this stuff? The medical
staff were quiet and, with few exceptions, only answered direct questions.
On the morning of the 18th, we did our own mass cal walk through. We met
after muster at about 0930 in front of Charlie Med. We discussed traffic
flow, casualty receiving, organized teams. I would be assigned to the
“Minimal” group, along with another Physician (a Family Practice Doc out
of Camp Pendleton), and some Corpsmen. It was all on paper. We had a
preliminary plan. In triage of mass casualties, there are four
categories into which patients fall: Immediate, Delayed, Minimal, and
Expectant (a fifth if you count the “walking wounded”). The Immediate’s
are patients that need life-saving surgery right away. The Delayed’s
have a little bit of time and can be stabilized, but may require surgery
later. The Minimal’s need close observation and probably require wound
dressings, splints, and other minor treatments. The Expectants are moved
to a remote area and are managed by the Chaplains and mental health
staff. They are not expected to live, and to intervene on their behalf
exhausts the valuable resources of consumable supplies, precious blood,
and personnel.
It was my “day off”. As the senior nurse here, I had spent some time in
the previous days working out a duty schedule, providing for
round-the-clock nursing coverage of the ward and the post anesthesia
care unit (PACU). We had six nurses to staff these hours and had agreed
that, with the current pace of the facility and the experience level of
our Corpsmen, one nurse per shift, with a back-up, immediately
available, would provide sufficient staffing levels. Of course it is
understood that there aren’t really “days off” and that we are all on
call, twenty-four, seven. We were happy to be working, gainfully
employed in patient care, teaching our eager and enthusiastic Corpsmen.
We had far better staffing than our Army counterparts and felt good
about getting our feet wet so that they could pack up and leave. They
all have dates to depart, but know that they can’t completely evacuate
until our gear arrives.
Other than a 1500 daily administrative meeting that I attend, along with
other components of the Command Leadership, I had a relaxing day ahead
of me. I would leave the mass cal walk-through, head back to my barracks
drop off some laundry, get some lunch, write a letter home (my husband
was begging for a “real letter” instead of just e-mails), and take my
camera out for a photo shoot of the Compound – something I’ve been
meaning to do since I arrived. I got as far as writing the letter. I had
just finished my summary of the things you can’t say in e-mails or on
the phone, like mortar rounds and rocket fire descriptions. There was a
sharp knock on the door. The Army CRNA (nurse anesthetist) was looking
for our CRNA, a quiet Lieutenant female with fiery red hair from Camp
Pendleton. I said she wasn’t here. I was the only one in our room
(currently occupied by the six female officers of our company, until the
Army vacates and we can spread out). He announced that 7 casualties were
on their way. I said I’d go try to find her (and others). I grabbed my
weapon belt and my cover (hat) and headed out the door. I made a quick
dash through Charlie Med (directly across the street from berthing),
down the single hall, assessing the available assets. The Emergency Room
Physician (a Navy Captain, and my medical staff counterpart) said,
“Cindy, would you please help find the OR nurses and the CRNA” [he used
their first names]. I quickly responded, “Is that what’s needed most
right now?” He said, “Yes.” I ran out the door and two buildings over
and hit the “surgical jackpot” at the popular Internet Café. I collected
the CRNA, an OR nurse, and one of our general surgeons... Quick words
were spoken, “Seven casualties incoming,” aware as I was of the close
proximity of computers and phones and the fact that I would be easily
overheard. I was out the door and racing back to Charlie Med as they
were logging off and following close behind.
We haven’t completely taken over from Charlie Med, so some of us assumed
vantage points within the facility to watch and to respond, with our
first real test of trauma. I realized, as I was watching out the front
facing windows at the organized chaos of gurneys being staged, supplies
being opened, medics being poised, that I didn’t have my stethoscope.
Since the casualties hadn’t yet arrived, I decided to run back across
the street and retrieve it from somewhere in my still un-packed sea-bag
in berthing. When I arrived in our room, I encountered our freshly
showered Ensign (nurse), acting way too calm for the goings on. (She was
“off” today too). I told her about the 7 incoming, as I rifled through
my sea-bag and found my stethoscope. By the time I arrived at the
entrance to our building, the vehicles were arriving.
I waited on my side of the street until I could safely dart across. Dust
was flying as the initial 3 Hummers arrived on scene. Sheer panic
prevailed as the drivers sped by, driving way too fast for the
pedestrian traffic and the condition of the road. The first two passed
the turn-off and nearly missed a head on collision with a shuttle bus.
As the third and fourth flew by and made the left turn to our casualty
receiving area, I could hear the excited shouts from the vehicles, “GET
THE FUCK OUT OF THE ROAD!!!” I thought to myself, “These kids are trying
to save their buddies lives. It’s going to be a bad one, for them to be
flying in here like they are. Please, God, don’t let them hit anyone
else in their hurry. And let us have the skills to make good on whatever
this may bring.”
I ran across the road, through the Operating Room entrance and down the
tiled hallway. I went into the mental health space to look out their
front facing window. Several of Bravo Surgical Company folks had
gathered there. Without a clear role, we could at least see what we were
up against. Within seconds, the writhing bodies began to emerge. “That
knee looks messed up. Is he missing his hand? Is that one moving? Hurry!
Faster! Get them in here! There’s so much blood. Those bandages are
soaked. Where were they? How did this happen?” A hundred random thoughts
flew through my head as I left the room and made my way down to the
trauma area. “Who are all these people? Ah, a familiar face – the Family
Practice Doc. He’s running a table. They are all full. I’ll see what I
can do.”
Our patient, a young Vietnamese Staff Sergeant, was covered in blood and
was crying out in excruciating pain. He had hastily-applied bandages to
his legs, his arm, and his head. “Potential airway compromise – stop the
bleeding, get these clothes off.” As the Army medic cut away the
clothing, the source of the blood became clear. His posterior legs were
literally peppered with shrapnel wounds, multiple holes, dirty, and
bleeding. His left lower extremity, without a palpable pulse. “He will
need surgery. Continue ABC’s.” He is talking, responding, shivering.
“Let’s get him warmed up and get these dressings reinforced. We need
direct pressure on this left popliteal area. It just won’t stop
bleeding...” His I.V. running, and his dressings applied, we give him 5
mg of Morphine. Not enough. 2 more mgs. Still not enough. 2 more mgs. I
talk to him. I remember coaching laboring patients through the pain of
intense contractions. I get close to his ear, I gently touch his head,
and I coach his breathing. In a soft voice, I guide his inspiration and
expiration, slowing down his respiratory efforts, increasing the oxygen
and perfusion, helping to relax the tension, in his face, in his legs.
It works for a while, then the pain intensifies. More morphine.
The Orthopedic Surgeon (an Army asset that we don’t have) comes by and
does a quick assessment. There is another case in the O.R. My Sergeant
will be next. It may be a while. We have 6 hours to release the
compartment syndrome developing in his left leg, before he has permanent
tissue death. His capillary refill is still fine. “Where is that damn
pulse?”
After what seems like an eternity and multiple checks down the hallway
for other patients, other needs, the Sergeant goes to the O.R. I return
to the ward to see what is happening. It has filled up. There were 14
casualties that came to us, double the initial report. There were
literally hundreds of shrapnel wounds that all needed cleaning and
dressing. Our Corpsmen and nurses set about the task at hand, liberally
pushing the Morphine, animated discussions among the conversant soldiers.
As the evening progressed, we learned the details. The group that had
been attacked was a security patrol positioned on a roof-top near the
meeting place of the newly-established Iraqi counsel. A rocket, or
mortar, had landed on the building with them and exploded. No deaths. We
had 3 operative cases, one immediate MEDEVAC. Nursing staff was
reinforced; we made our plans to cover evening and night shifts, and
everyone more than earned their paycheck. I finished my “day off” at
about midnight and went back to berthing for 5 hours of sleep. I am
fighting bronchitis, so I took a Benadryl to help with congestion and
cough. And I didn’t mind if the sedative effects worked as well.
I woke up the next morning, went to early chow (so much for running
today), and headed to Charlie Med to help out. The day shift was in full
swing, rounds were starting, intravenous antibiotics were on schedule,
and people and supplies were amassed for the extensive dressing changes.
Someone appeared and stated that we needed to tidy up the area and have
the wounds looking as clean as possible, as command VIP’s may be by
later to talk to the wounded. “Screw the VIP’s,” I thought. “There is
blood here. It is real. And it is visible. Who thinks about this stuff?
Let’s clean this up and dress these wounds, because it’s the right thing
to do, not because of who might see it. Get the President in here. He
needs to see it.” I stayed to help out throughout the day, leaving only
for chow and for a quick shower before my scheduled shift from 1500-2300.
By the time my shift came along, I was insistent about sending extra
people back to the rack to get some sleep. It had been a hectic 36
hours, and no one had gotten adequate rest. I had time to verify charts,
(there had never been so many at one time) and find the things we’d
“missed” over the past confusing hours. Things were on cruise control
again. The only glitch was at change of shift, when one of our patients
went to the O.R. for worsening abdominal pain. He had been closely
watched throughout our shift by an Army Major, a general surgeon. He was
a handsome man, confident, “probably an athlete, healthy, and popular,”
I thought to myself. I had discussed the case with him several times
throughout the day and evening, before he made the decision to take him
back to the O.R. About three o’clock in the morning, when our CRNA came
into the room from finishing his case, she reported that they had
removed a significant piece of shrapnel from near, or embedded in, his
small intestine. I was too groggy for the details. Well, I suppose that
would explain his pain.
The next day, the morning of the 20th, I was in and out of medical
throughout day shift. Everything was pretty much stable; a couple of the
patients had been discharged, and things were calming down. I secured
coverage for my admin meeting, and reported for my evening shift at
about 1545. At about 1600, we got word that 3 casualties were coming in
by air and that there was arterial bleeding and shrapnel wounds. I sent
a Corpsman to run for staff. He returned alone. We braced for impact
with the people on hand, quickly assigning important roles. After 10
minutes of nervous anticipation, one of the Army Doctors, an Armenian
female said, “If they aren’t here yet, they aren’t coming.” Apparently,
the EVAC pilots don’t want to land here. There is bad luck around us and
Fallujah. Several helos have gone down, so they go straight to the CASH
(Combat Army Surgical Hospital) in Baghdad. We breathed a sigh of
relief, and the adrenaline subsided.
One of the patients on our ward, who has been an in-patient since our
arrival, is an Enemy Prisoner of War (EPW) with a left leg amputation,
who has had several revisions, under the care of the orthopedic surgeon.
The Army staff, out of necessity, has housed the EPW within the ward
that contains supplies, the nurses’ station (a desk), the white board
with patients’ names, etc. The arrangement has bothered me since my
arrival. I don’t like that he sits there, a 60-year old man, sporting a
green towel on his head, receiving the best of surgical and nursing
care, and I don’t know how many Americans he is responsible for killing,
or how he came to lose his leg before he was captured and imprisoned.
How many countries even care about the Geneva Conventions tenets?
I do know that this EPW (assigned a number, not a name) cannot be
berthed alongside American soldiers, sailors, and Marines. He must be
guarded at all times, and although the physical threats from him are
minimal (it would be difficult for a 60-year-old amputee with fresh
surgical wounds to overtake our youthful and fit staff), I don’t know if
his ignorance of English is a façade, if his smile and unimposing ways
are just a ruse to lull you into complacency. Is he gathering
intelligence? Is he committing antibiotic names to memory? Can he
determine what we can and cannot treat? Will he report the numbers and
names of our casualties? Has he figured out who is in charge, the
changes of shifts, the weaknesses in our structures and processes? Call
me paranoid, but I don’t like him in there, and I’ll change it as soon
as we take over the place.
At about 1800, a Filipino nurse from Balboa, my chow relief, comes in to
relieve me for dinner. He has not yet eaten and the chow hall closes at
2000. I can take an hour without guilt. I review the patients still on
hand, we talk about flushing the freshly-inserted central line on our
EPW, calculating the cumulative Heparin that he’ll be receiving after
antibiotics and during the shifts. He is very anemic, has received 2
units of blood (American blood), that I know of, and I am worried about
his potential for hemorrhage. I don’t like his presence, but on my
watch, he’ll receive safe and competent care, without bias or prejudice.
We determine that the Heparin is O.K.
I leave for chow and arrive at the dining facility about 1815. I find
some Chiefs from our unit to sit with and we casually discuss things. I
bring up my concerns about our EPW, emphatic that I will change things
just as soon as I can. We talk about events from the day, about the
status of our spaces, about the attack on the Army soldiers, about how
tired we are. I am impressed at how good the female dental Chief looks –
relatively well-rested, with maybe a hint of blush on her cheeks. She
casually mentions that she heard it could be a bad night in Fallujah.
Marines were going in to the city for patrol, and it is the Kurdish New
Year. We all under-react to the information.
After dinner, we get up to go, retrieving our trays from the table,
balancing our water bottles, our covers, while negotiating the exit
door. It had become dark while we ate. The Indian men are outside, as
always, wiping down trays as we pile them higher. I am outside with a
big, African-American, male Chief. He is a quiet man. He seems strong,
and safe. I have talked to him about his family, about his home. We are
waiting under the bright yellow and white awning, standing in front of a
“Texas Barrier” a huge cement form, many of which, pollute the compound
landscape with defensive, but unattractive necessity. They are in place
to protect the buildings. The chow hall has a tin roof and vinyl siding.
The bubbly and outgoing female Chief has been distracted by a
conversation inside, so we wait for her patiently, casually conversing.
I hear a distant thud, the pulse of far-away fire, maybe an outgoing
round. I’m still too new to discern all of the sounds. But this one is
ignored. It is very far away.
Within an instant, my thoughts still on the distant round, I hear a
high-pitched whizzing sound directly over-head and then the inevitable
BOOOM – rocks the ground beneath me. Still on my feet, I react without
thinking, dashing to the door of the chow hall, about 12 feet away. I
catch a momentary image of sheer terror on the face of an Indian worker
(none of these men weighs over 100 lbs), as he, like me, scrambles for
the door and some sort of cover. My thoughts are racing; I am caught
completely off guard. The concussion of the round is still a palpable
internal sensation as I reach the door of the chow hall. What a bizarre
sight. Hundreds of uniformed diners, sprawled prone on the chow hall
floor. I see the female Chief. She tells me today that I forcefully
pulled her to the floor. I only remember seeing her and telling her to
“Get down! It hit right outside!” I recognize a female Corpsman as
people start to shakily respond. There is laughter in the Chow Hall (a
nervous reaction, no one can think this is funny). A zealous Marine
shouts, “Lock and load!” Someone with an authoritative voice directs us
all to exit the building slowly, without panic (the chow hall structure
is no place to be during rocket or mortar fire).
Our little group is closest to the door, so is among the first to exit.
We make our way off the cement platform and into the gravel to head back
for Charlie Med, about a block away, and the safety of a hardened
building. We have covered half our distance and are carefully walking
the paved road, trying to avoid the invisible dangers (strewn bricks,
holes, cables) along our route. It is dark along our path, except for
the stars, and the generator lights near some of the buildings. I look
behind toward the chow hall, and I see the dust and smoke rising eerily
in the light above the building. I smell explosives and dust.
I begin to convey my story to the female Corpsman, about the sound of
the incoming round, my fright, and the sensations to my body, when it
happens again. WHIZZZZZZ then BOOM!!! Then again. And yet again. I know
exactly what “shell-shocked” means now. I know that all of these rounds
have hit the compound, within very close range, and that there will be
casualties. I shout, “Is everyone O.K.?” I cannot see my friends, but
we’ve all moved closer to the wall next to us. Perhaps we will be safer
there. We are in the open. There is no where to go. I feel like a
jack-rabbit, fleeing from a predator, whose route is unpredictable, and
whose hunting skills are lethal. Every impact causes a distortion of
time and sense, a jolt to the internal organs. “Run for the Clinic!”
It’s all I can say and do. They will be needing our help, and we are at
least still on our feet. As we round a Texas Barrier, Charlie Med coming
into view, we see smoke in the light at the end of our building. Someone
yells, “Oh my God, it’s a fire.” I think, “I don’t know where a water
source is, a hose.” I have my water bottle, clutched to my side. It will
provide little relief for a fire.
We reach the end of the building. There is no fire. There is smoke, the
smell of burning, a choking cloud of dust and debris, the sight and
smell of blood. We enter the end of the building. Random thoughts,
“Where is the door? Oh my God, look at all this blood, Jesus, this is
bad, where can I help.” I walk through the blood, without thinking.
There is so much, that I cannot get around. It is in a huge puddle by
the door and is channeling down the hallway in a path that can only have
been made by the dragging of a human body. I start to notice people. I
cannot discern their faces, but their expressions are of concern and
confusion. Several ask, “Are you all right?” I lie to some, and say,
“Yes.” I take some deep breaths, knowing that I must shake my own state
if I am going to be able to help anyone else. I look for something to
do. I race down the hall, looking through spaces where doors used to be.
I pass by the ward, I see the EPW, grabbing his crutches, trying to get
out of bed. I yell at him to “GET DOWN! YOU STAY THERE!” No one is
guarding him. I come to the next doors, our trauma room, and see too
many people working on a lifeless body. CPR is in progress. He has
enough help. The next door presents an opportunity. A victim is lying
motionless on the stretcher, he is prone, people are packing gaping
wounds. “Where is his left buttocks? He will lose that leg. He has no
I.V. I can start a line.” I grab the equipment, a catheter, and a
tourniquet. A bag of normal saline is still spiked from our earlier dry
run. I am prepared to start this I.V. with this patient prone, if I have
to, but the doctor running the bed states, “We’re going to turn him
over.” His left shoulder is filleted open. I shove an entire role of
Curlex gauze into the hole. We roll the patient. I tighten the
tourniquet around his biceps and palpate for a vein. Nothing. I tighten
the tourniquet more. I rub the antecubital space with alcohol, hoping to
raise a vessel. I can feel one. I listen to the combatant thoughts in my
head. “Cindy, you haven’t started an I.V. in over 4 years. Yeah, but
this is like riding a bike. You were among the best in both Pediatrics
and Labor and Delivery. You have started hundreds of I.V.’s on every
kind of vein. You can do this. You HAVE to do this. God, guide this
catheter. Thank you, God,” as I see the red flash and float the catheter
in with fluid. “You have a good line!” Someone states that the O.R. is
ready, as I help an Army medic pack and wrap the space where this young
man’s left entire backside used to be. I don’t want to process the fact
that I see small bowel escaping through this blown out pelvis. I look
into this young man’s eyes and I tell him to “Hold on. You’re going to
make it. You fight, O.K.?” He nods, but his eyes reflect what he
probably knows at this moment. He will die tonight. The stretcher is
lifted, and he heads for the operating room, but his fate has already
been sealed. This isn’t television.
I head into the other room, where the CPR had been in progress. Only
now, the chest is cracked, and our surgeon and the E.R. physician are
taking turns at massaging the heart muscle from inside. I take a place
at the end of the bed, helping to spike and compress bag after bag of O+
blood into the various lines that have been placed. They call for
instruments that I don’t know. We don’t have them anyway. I can hand
them the scalpel intermittently. I see one of the Lieutenants I work
with in Corpus Christi at the opposite end of the bed, bagging
(artificially ventilating) the patient. He is doing a great job. I know,
because I am looking into the chest cavity, and I can see the lungs
rhythmically inflating and deflating. “Those are healthy looking lungs,”
I think to myself. “This must be a young man. These lungs are pink and
vital, nothing like the cadaver lungs of life-long smokers from my grad
school anatomy class.” It is like looking at the rubber airway models in
ACLS and CPR classes. The surgeon states quietly, “He isn’t going to
make it.” The E.R. physician verbally summarizes the multiple
interventions that have taken place, and pronounces the time of death.
Around the table, tears begin to flow. I cannot hold back my own.
Later on, I learn that this was the body of the Army surgeon with whom I
had interacted so much on the previous day. They were healthy lungs. He
shouldn’t be dead. He was the father of a five-year-old boy and was
within 48 hours of leaving this place. His was the blood in the hallway.
He never had a chance when the rocket’s impact, only 10 feet from our
door blew him through the opening. His was the blood on my boots. I
don’t know if blood comes out of suede, but I know that it leaves an
indelible stain in your mind and in your own heart.
The other casualties are not life-threatening, save one successful O.R.
case, who was MEDEVAC’ed after surgery. I pray that he makes it and gets
back home. I do not know the extent of his injuries. We all begin to
process our thoughts and our feelings. No one can escape the emotional
tide that inevitably wells within. A Chaplain can see that I am in
despair. He offers me a fatherly hug. I’ll take it.
Today is the 21st. I did not sleep well last night after getting back to
my berthing, sometime around midnight. I jumped at every noise, every
closing of a door. I woke to every jet and helicopter that passed by. It
is dark again. It is 2100. So far it is quiet. I wore my flack and
Kevlar all day today and was out of the chow hall before dark.
I visited my patients on the ward, but did not work today. One of the
Army Medics who was injured in the hallway provided some levity. His
injury was a penetrating shrapnel wound that had entered the left
scrotum, exited the right scrotum lodged the debris within his right
thigh, thankfully missing the femoral artery. Somehow, the “family
jewels” were spared. He had no modesty about showing his war wounds to
visiting buddies. Finally I said to him, “Sergeant, every time I turn
around in here, I’m seeing your stuff. Now, it’s time to put that away.
We’ve all seen quite enough.” He laughed. We have established a rapport
with these Army heroes and we will be sad to see them go. I am heartsick
that two of their colleagues, their families away from home, fell just
before the joy of reunions with “real” families could be felt.
For those of us who are here to take over, we are hopeful that we have
seen the worst already in these few short days. We know that the
emotional burdens of the events described will assuredly take their
toll. It could be a very trying six months. I pray that we are all up to
the task before us.
** The previous account is factual. Names were omitted to protect the
privacy of the tragic victims. This is my story. In writing it, I would
like to honor those fallen heroes, who paid the ultimate price. God
bless their families, as they grieve their impossible losses. And God
Bless us, who continue their work.
P.S. The EPW has been moved to a solitary location with dedicated guard.
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:30:24 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Rise and Fall of Heroes
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Ken,
Thank you for sending us that. I have forwarded it to just about everybody I
know.
Please thank whoever sent it to you, both for sending it, and for being there
and doing all that they are doing.
Ralph
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<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ken,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Thank you for sending us that. I ha=
ve forwarded it to just about everybody I know.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Please thank whoever sent it to you, both=
for sending it, and for being there and doing all that they are doing.</FON=
T></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082302224--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:57:10 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Fall of Heroes
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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[log in to unmask] wrote:
> *Thank you for sending us that. I have forwarded it to just about
> everybody I know.*
> *Please thank whoever sent it to you, both for sending it, and for
> being there and doing all that they are doing.*
Ralph,
We may thank my brother in Houston who was sent it from someone that I
suspect knows the author. Considering the subject and content of the
piece I have to say that Cynthia Kuehner is a good writer to pull it
off. The quality and detail alone of the piece give it the weight of
truth. A friend of mine was a nurse in Vietnam and wrote a collection of
short stories about her experiences. They don't quite grip like this
text does.
I've found myself being irritated over folks who make out that a
questioning of the current administration's actions and policies is
somehow equated with 1) not supporting our troops or their families or
2) a lack of patriotism. Our Marine in Qatar sent an on-the-scenes in
Iraq communication to me with the preliminary that, "I understand that
there are several of you back home that have your own opinion about the
war...you are all entitled. However, remember that while you sit and
criticize our nations leaders over coffee, that there are several men
and women that are putting their lives on the line...EVERYDAY!" I'm
really pissed that if for the short term political election a rhetoric
is pushed that will make the troops feel, as with the Vietnam
experience, that they are not appreciated at home. I sounded off with my
best buddy, I care about this kid, and we have it worked out. One thing
that I have learned in my old age is that the career military contains
some of the most effective pacifists that I have ever met. It took me a
long time to figure this out. Another thing that bothers me is when
radical conservatives steal away and co-op the flag as if it is only
their right to honor... just as much as it bothers me when the flag is
desecrated. What I find likewise odd is that the patriotic zealots don't
always know the rules of interface with a flag and that their ignorance
is a most dishonorable disrespect. A calendar with a flag with 18
stripes, or a Ralph Loren logo on a baseball cap without enough stripes
though in a well balanced mix of colors.
I got Dick Clark's book in audio, anybody interested in a copy?
I'm gonna go play with rectangles of backed clay and dirt in the front yard.
Irritated on a sunny day on Lung Island,
][<en
A Wrong Turn, Chaos and a Rescue
By Pamela Constable
FALLUJAH, Iraq, April 14 -- It began as a routine supply mission to the
front lines, in a volatile but largely becalmed city.
It ended as a fiery and chaotic rescue mission, with a small force of
Marine tanks, Humvees and ground troops surrounded and attacked as they
fought their way through a hostile neighborhood to save the crew of a
burning armored personnel carrier.
Marine officials said the three-hour battle that erupted at dusk Tuesday
on the streets of Fallujah, and was recounted Wednesday by several of the
key officers involved, exemplified the bravery and resourcefulness that
Marines are known for, even when surprised and surrounded by a host of
enemy fighters on alien urban turf. By the end of the tumultuous
encounter, the charred personnel carrier had been towed to safety by a
tank and most of its 17 crew members -- several of them wounded -- had
been rescued from a house where they had taken shelter.
But the incident also revealed some startling facts about the
insurgency that the Marines are facing here, officers said. More
dramatically than any armed confrontation since U.S. forces surrounded
Fallujah nine days ago, it showed the tenacity, coordination, firepower
and surprisingly large numbers of anti-American guerrillas who still
dominate much of the city.
"We definitely stumbled into a wasps' nest. They were definitely a lot
more organized than we thought," said Capt. Jason Smith, 30, commander of
the company whose armored supply vehicle made a wrong turn into insurgent
territory and was immediately inundated by gunfire and rocket-propelled
grenades from all sides.
Marine officials here said offensive operations in Fallujah would remain
suspended, extending a pause that was ordered Friday to allow civilians to
leave the city and let political leaders in Fallujah and Baghdad attempt
to negotiate a solution to the conflict.
Just before dawn Wednesday, however, AC-130 Spectre gunships launched a
devastating punitive raid over a six-block area around the spot where the
convoy was attacked, firing dozens of artillery shells that shook the city
and lit up the sky. Marine officials said the area was virtually destroyed
and that no further insurgent activity had been seen there.
According to accounts by Smith and two other officers, a supply convoy
of Humvees was heading toward a command post at the edge of a
Marine-controlled industrial zone around 4:30 p.m. Tuesday when it came
under small-arms fire. The convoy backtracked, and its cargo was shifted
to two Marine amphibious assault vehicles, which resumed the mission.
Those carriers were hit by rocket-propelled grenades, known as RPGs.
One turned back toward friendly territory, but the other caught fire and
the driver lost his way in the unfamiliar neighborhood. Suddenly, the crew
encountered a large number of armed men milling in the streets. Within
minutes, they were being attacked from all sides.
"They started taking RPG fire and tried to get out of the area, but we
lost communication with them," Smith said. "Their engine was on fire and
they were heading away from our zone. . . . I saw a huge plume of smoke
and I knew something was very wrong."
Officers dispatched a quick-reaction squad whose members had already been
in battle earlier Tuesday. While guarding the site of a helicopter crash
in a marshy area southeast of the city that morning, the outfit was
ambushed by insurgents.
The rescue squad rushed four tanks and six Humvees to the area, where
they fought their way through several blocks to reach the burning carrier.
Surrounded by 25 Marine riflemen on foot, the armored vehicles advanced,
firing machine guns from their turrets. Overhead, Air Force attack planes
repeatedly strafed the area. Marine officials here said at least 20
insurgents were shot dead during the fighting.
"Within the first 500 meters, we were shooting 360 degrees," said Lt.
Joshua Glover, 25, who commanded the rescue force. "When we finally saw
the [armored personnel carrier], it was a piece of burning metal."
The carrier's crew had managed to escape and had taken shelter in the
nearest house, where they were pummeled with gunfire from the surrounding
houses. Under covering fire from U.S. tanks and planes, Glover's team was
able to get the crew into Humvees and race off to safety.
"People were tossing grenades from the houses on either side," Glover
said. "I could hear small-arms fire, and I even saw people running across
the street to try and enter the house." He and Smith said they saw only
armed men in the area.
Senior Marine officials here, who plan to seek commendations for valor
for four men involved the rescue mission, said the most important aspect
of the incident was the courage that the Marines displayed in battling
their way through heavy fire to reach the disabled carrier and rescue its
crew.
"This is a story about heroes. It shows the tenacity of the Marines and
their fierce loyalty to each other," said Lt. Col. Brennan Byrne,
commander of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment. "They were absolutely
unwilling to leave their brother Marines behind."
At the Marine base in Fallujah and at command posts along the front
lines Wednesday, troops recounted the rescue story to one another,
relishing every detail and braced by the display of fighting spirit during
what, for many Marines, has been a period of frustration and inactivity
since Friday, when offensive operations were halted.
But Smith and other officers said the incident also offered sobering
insights into the sophistication and size of the insurgent force, which
the Marines have characterized as a combination of Iraqis loyal to toppled
president Saddam Hussein, foreign Islamic guerrillas and local criminals.
In the past several days, Marines have also recovered hundreds of
weapons, including rocket launchers, machine guns, sniper rifles and
explosive belts for suicide bombers, while searching the deserted
industrial zone. Many of the weapons were wrapped in plastic and buried
under sand piles or other debris, suggesting they had been hidden some
time ago for use in battle.
Until Tuesday's firefight, moreover, the Marines here had never been
attacked by more than five or six insurgents at once, Smith said. This
time, when the personnel carrier strayed just a few blocks into enemy
territory, "there were 50 to 100 guys. It took a great deal of fire for us
to get there, and I saw much more coordination than anything I seen
before," he said.
"They've been preparing for this the whole time."
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:15:34 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Rise and Fall of Heroes
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In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:55:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ralph,
We may thank my brother in Houston who was sent it from someone that I
suspect knows the author. In that case, thank him for me. Considering the
subject and content of the piece I have to say that Cynthia Kuehner is a good
writer to pull it off. I should say so.The quality and detail alone of the piece
give it the weight of truth. I was about to say, "I hope to God it is truth,"
but I'm not at all sure that I want what she wrote to be the truth. A friend
of mine was a nurse in Vietnam and wrote a collection of short stories about
her experiences. They don't quite grip like this text does. This one sure is
good.
I've found myself being irritated over folks who make out that a
questioning of the current administration's actions and policies is
somehow equated with 1) not supporting our troops or their families or
2) a lack of patriotism. There was a very interesting piece on the news Fri
night (I think it was Fri) about how Marine families in San Diego don't make
enough money to survive on-- they wind up having to get food from some sort of
food pantries which are supplied by Cub Scouts. And then they had the
Republican congressman from SD talking about how our country is so fucking great
because we don't rely on the govt to provide everything--we're great because of
volunteers (like little fucking Cub Scouts) who provide things (like enough food
to keep Marines' families from starving). These sons of bitches should be
ashamed of themselves over THIS if nothing else. Our Marine in Qatar sent an
on-the-scenes in
Iraq communication to me with the preliminary that, "I understand that
there are several of you back home that have your own opinion about the
war...you are all entitled. However, remember that while you sit and
criticize our nations leaders over coffee, that there are several men
and women that are putting their lives on the line...EVERYDAY!" I'm
really pissed that if for the short term political election a rhetoric
is pushed that will make the troops feel, as with the Vietnam
experience, that they are not appreciated at home. Interesting idea-- Bush
and his assholes have set this up to make everybody who disagrees with him the
bad guys. DUH!!!!!! I sounded off with my best buddy, I care about this kid,
and we have it worked out. One thing
that I have learned in my old age is that the career military contains
some of the most effective pacifists that I have ever met. Interesting. I can
see where little Jarheads and those types of guys are hot to kick ass, but I
should think that people like this nurse are disgusted by this. It took me a
long time to figure this out. Another thing that bothers me is when
radical conservatives steal away and co-op the flag as if it is only
their right to honor... just as much as it bothers me when the flag is
desecrated. yep. What I find likewise odd is that the patriotic zealots don't
always know the rules of interface with a flag and that their ignorance
is a most dishonorable disrespect. A calendar with a flag with 18
stripes, or a Ralph Loren logo on a baseball cap without enough stripes
though in a well balanced mix of colors.
I got Dick Clark's book in audio, anybody interested in a copy? I'd rather
read it in the original--or does he read it himself? THAT would be interesting.
I'm gonna go play with rectangles of backed clay and dirt in the front yard.
Sounds good to me. I gotta go shopping, but first I gotta shower and get
dressed, and later I gotta figure out some sort of budget stuff for post-divorce.
Meanwhile, I told Dov Thurs that I had gotten an alternate job offer, and he
came back offering me $7000 LESS than the new place is going to start me at,
and the POSSIBILITY of a partnership with his asshole son-in-law. Wouldn't you
have jumped at the offer of a partnership with Marty Stecklow?
Irritated on a sunny day on Lung Island, Don't be irritated--unless you're
going to enjoy it. It's too nice a day.
][
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:55:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, orgreas=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Ralph,<BR><BR>We may thank my brother in Houst=
on who was sent it from someone that I<BR>suspect knows the author. <STRONG>=
In that case, thank him for me. </STRONG>Considering the subject and content=
of the piece I have to say that Cynthia Kuehner is a good writer to pull it=
off. <STRONG>I should say so.</STRONG>The quality and detail alone of the p=
iece give it the weight of truth. <STRONG>I was about to say, "I hope to God=
it is truth," but I'm not at all sure that I want what she wrote to be the=20=
truth. </STRONG>A friend of mine was a nurse in Vietnam and wrote=
a collection of short stories about her experiences. They don't quite grip=20=
like this text does. <STRONG>This one sure is good.</STRONG><BR><BR>I've fou=
nd myself being irritated over folks who make out that a<BR>questioning of t=
he current administration's actions and policies is<BR>somehow equated with=20=
1) not supporting our troops or their families or<BR>2) a lack of patriotism=
. <STRONG>There was a very interesting piece on the news Fri night (I think=20=
it was Fri) about how Marine families in San Diego don't make enough money t=
o survive on-- they wind up having to get food from some sort of food pantri=
es which are supplied by Cub Scouts. And then they had the Republ=
ican congressman from SD talking about how our country is so fucking g=
reat because we don't rely on the govt to provide everything--we're gre=
at because of volunteers (like little fucking Cub Scouts) who provide things=
(like enough food to keep Marines' families from starving). These son=
s of bitches should be ashamed of themselves over THIS if nothing else.</STR=
ONG> Our Marine in Qatar sent an on-the-scenes in<BR>Iraq communication=
to me with the preliminary that, "I understand that<BR>there are several of=
you back home that have your own opinion about the<BR>war...you are all ent=
itled. However, remember that while you sit and<BR>criticize our natio=
ns leaders over coffee, that there are several men<BR>and women that are put=
ting their lives on the line...EVERYDAY!" I'm<BR>really pissed that if for t=
he short term political election a rhetoric<BR>is pushed that will make the=20=
troops feel, as with the Vietnam<BR>experience, that they are not appreciate=
d at home. <STRONG>Interesting idea-- Bush and his assholes have set t=
his up to make everybody who disagrees with him the bad guys. DUH!!!!!=
!</STRONG> I sounded off with my best buddy, I care about this kid, and=
we have it worked out. One thing <BR>that I have learned in my old age is t=
hat the career military contains<BR>some of the most effective pacifists tha=
t I have ever met. <STRONG>Interesting. I can see where little Jarheads and=20=
those types of guys are hot to kick ass, but I should think that people like=
this nurse are disgusted by this. </STRONG>It took me a<BR>long time to fig=
ure this out. Another thing that bothers me is when<BR>radical conservatives=
steal away and co-op the flag as if it is only<BR>their right to honor... j=
ust as much as it bothers me when the flag is<BR>desecrated. <STRONG>yep.</S=
TRONG> What I find likewise odd is that the patriotic zealots don't<BR>=
always know the rules of interface with a flag and that their ignorance<BR>i=
s a most dishonorable disrespect. A calendar with a flag with 18<BR>stripes,=
or a Ralph Loren logo on a baseball cap without enough stripes<BR>though in=
a well balanced mix of colors. <BR><BR>I got Dick Clark's book in audio, an=
ybody interested in a copy? <STRONG>I'd rather read it in the original--or d=
oes he read it himself? THAT would be interesting.</STRONG><BR>I'm gonna go=20=
play with rectangles ofectangles of backed clay and dirt in the front yard.=20=
<STRONG>Sounds good to me. I gotta go shopping, but first I gotta show=
er and get dressed, and later I gotta figure out some sort of budget stuff f=
or post-divorce. Meanwhile, I told Dov Thurs that I had gotten an alte=
rnate job offer, and he came back offering me $7000 LESS than the new place=20=
is going to start me at, and the POSSIBILITY of a partnership with his assho=
le son-in-law. Wouldn't you have jumped at the offer of a partner=
ship with Marty Stecklow? </STRONG><BR><BR>Irritated on a sunny day on=20=
Lung Island, <STRONG>Don't be irritated--unless you're going to enjoy it.&nb=
sp; It's too nice a day.</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>][<en</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082304934--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:47:58 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Fall of Heroes
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> *Interesting. I can see where little Jarheads and those types of
> guys are hot to kick ass, but I should think that people like this
> nurse are disgusted by this.*
>
Marines come in different flavors... until I got irritated I had
forgotten that I spent about 6 mnths in DC working on the subway in
Montgomery County without a whole lot to do most of the time but having
to be on the job regardless because I had a First Aid card and my
standing around bullshitting and telling stories buddy was an ex-Marine
who had been in the Tet Offensive. His internal body, and his life, were
screwed up something terrible. He had two young boys and a wife that
kept trying to commit suicide.
The myth is that the Jarheads are ready to roll, and they are -- the
underlying reality as I see it is that even they have sense enough to
try diplomacy first. (The online ARMY game places an emphasis on not the
crazed screaming warrior but the sheltering & cooperative thinking
soldier trained to kill and survive themselves and for their team
members.) It is not possible for Marines to spend their time thinking
about death, or experiencing the death of their friends, without their
gaining an appreciation for life the likes of which I assume we
'citizens' don't get to experience too often. When you are facing death
straight on then you need a hell of a good story, a strong mythology, a
culture and tradition for support. I don't mind this one bit, but what I
do mind is when the mythology is manipulated if and for political gain.
As I said to my young friend, we are in a war of progaganda and we are
the target. I don't want him coming back home and looking around and
thinking we are his target. Interesting, though, on the other hand, the
tactics of social and cultural isolation that the Marine Corp exhibits
towards developing career officers.
][<en
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:58:02 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Donald B. White" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More rounder heads
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Message text written by "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescen=
t
lighting."
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:58:02 -0700
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Roundheads
Donald, It is my understanding that the Pilgrims came to MA first, they
started the Plymouth colony and they separated from the Anglican church.
The Puritans came later started the Mass Bay Colony and they wanted to
reform the Anglican church not separate from it. Ruth<
Well, you are closer to the source than I am (though I was born in Boston=
and supposedly have a Mayflower ancestor but so do millions of oter
people). Yes, the Puritans wanted to take over and reform the English
church, which they eventually did. The Pilgrims were a group of Puritans
who called themselves Pilgrims because they looked on their wanderings to=
Holland and to America as a pilgrimage. The Mass Bay Colony does indeed
date from later on when the Puritans had more power--this is exactly my
point--that events in England determined the situation in the colonies.
Within 20 years the Puritans went from hated and despised and expelled se=
ct
to running the mother country. In 1620 they got lost looking for Virginia=
and ended up on Cape Cod for the winter, in 1640 they beheaded Charles I
and ruled England until 1666. This had to have an effect on politics here=
.
Seems to me this relationship is often overlooked. =
As for the Dutch in NY, that makes sense to me too. =
Don White
[log in to unmask]
www.DBWhite.com
Oh, by the way... if you know of someone who would appreciate my real
estate services, please contact me with their name and number and I will =
be
happy to help them.
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:31:05 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: More rounder heads with fewer smaller beanies
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In a message dated 4/18/2004 5:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Well, you are closer to the source than I am (though I was born in Boston
and supposedly have a Mayflower ancestor but so do millions of oter
people). Yes, the Puritans wanted to take over and reform the English
church, which they eventually did. The Pilgrims were a group of Puritans
who called themselves Pilgrims because they looked on their wanderings to
Holland and to America as a pilgrimage. The Mass Bay Colony does indeed
date from later on when the Puritans had more power--this is exactly my
point--that events in England determined the situation in the colonies.
Within 20 years the Puritans went from hated and despised and expelled sect
to running the mother country. In 1620 they got lost looking for Virginia
and ended up on Cape Cod for the winter, in 1640 they beheaded Charles I
and ruled England until 1666. This had to have an effect on politics here.
Seems to me this relationship is often overlooked.
If my rants about the Jews are as confusing to you WASPy types as this was to
me, I apologize.
Ralph
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/18/2004 5:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DonaldBW=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Well, you are closer to the source than I am (=
though I was born in Boston<BR>and supposedly have a Mayflower ancestor but=20=
so do millions of oter<BR>people). Yes, the Puritans wanted to take over and=
reform the English<BR>church, which they eventually did. The Pilgrims were=20=
a group of Puritans<BR>who called themselves Pilgrims because they looked on=
their wanderings to<BR>Holland and to America as a pilgrimage. The Mass Bay=
Colony does indeed<BR>date from later on when the Puritans had more power--=
this is exactly my<BR>point--that events in England determined the situation=
in the colonies.<BR>Within 20 years the Puritans went from hated and despis=
ed and expelled sect<BR>to running the mother country. In 1620 they got lost=
looking for Virginia<BR>and ended up on Cape Cod for the winter, in 1640 th=
ey beheaded Charles I<BR>and ruled England until 1666. This had to have an e=
ffect on politics here.<BR>Seems to me this relationship is often overlooked=
. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>If my rants about the Jews are as&nb=
sp;confusing to you WASPy types as this was to me, I apologize.</FONT><=
/STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:05:23 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Don White <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More rounder heads with fewer smaller beanies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
This was in rely to Ruth's of a few days ago. You actually read these postings as they happen--so if you can't follow the thread, who could?
On 4/18/04 at 5:31 pm [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In a message dated 4/18/2004 5:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> Well, you are closer to the source than I am (though I was born in Boston
> and supposedly have a Mayflower ancestor but so do millions of oter
> people). Yes, the Puritans wanted to take over and reform the English
> church, which they eventually did. The Pilgrims were a group of Puritans
> who called themselves Pilgrims because they looked on their wanderings to
> Holland and to America as a pilgrimage. The Mass Bay Colony does indeed
> date from later on when the Puritans had more power--this is exactly my
> point--that events in England determined the situation in the colonies.
> Within 20 years the Puritans went from hated and despised and expelled sect
> to running the mother country. In 1620 they got lost looking for Virginia
> and ended up on Cape Cod for the winter, in 1640 they beheaded Charles I
> and ruled England until 1666. This had to have an effect on politics here.
> Seems to me this relationship is often overlooked.
> If my rants about the Jews are as confusing to you WASPy types as this was
> to
> me, I apologize.
>
> Ralph
>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:35:23 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: More rounder heads with fewer smaller beanies
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In a message dated 4/18/2004 6:16:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
This was in rely to Ruth's of a few days ago. You actually read these
postings as they happen--so if you can't follow the thread, who could?
Don,
I did read it, but all these DWEMs get mixed up in my little beanie-covered
head.
Actually, my mother thinks that her half-sister is descended from a Mayflower
type... and she used to think that we were related (on her side, needless to
say, not my father's) to Elvis. Thank God that seems to have been disproven.
Ralph
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f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/18/2004 6:16:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, don@DBWH=
ITE.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>This was in rely to Ruth's of a few days ago.=20=
You actually read these postings as they happen--so if you can't follow the=20=
thread, who could?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Don,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I did read it, but all these DWEMs get mi=
xed up in my little beanie-covered head.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Actually, my mother thinks that her half-=
sister is descended from a Mayflower type... and she used to think that we w=
ere related (on her side, needless to say, not my father's) to Elvis. =20=
Thank God <U>that</U> seems to have been disproven. </FONT></STRON=
G></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082327723--
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: creighton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: smamcopped
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I wonder if I made it back on to the list? My IP tells me =
BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS has been SPAMING people so they saved me, thank GOD. =
Lucky me though- I still hear from our friend from Nigeria, get Viagra =
ads, get promised stunning explicit photos of Dwight Eisenhower and a =
donkey AND get very helpfull stock tips constantly creighton doughting =
thomas
------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01C42592.D03147C0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wonder if I made it back on to the =
list? My IP=20
tells me <FONT size=3D3> BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS has been SPAMING =
people so they=20
saved me, thank GOD. Lucky me though- I still hear from our friend from =
Nigeria,=20
get Viagra ads, get promised stunning explicit photos of Dwight =
Eisenhower and a=20
donkey AND get very helpfull stock tips constantly creighton doughting=20
thomas<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:14 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More rounder heads with fewer smaller beanies
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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> *If my rants about the Jews are as confusing to you WASPy types as
> this was to me, I apologize.*
> **
Ralph,
Actually your rants make me feel a whole lot more comfortable with the
revelation, at least to me, of the magnitude of diversity between Jews.
I begin to realize that Jews are just as crazy and whacked as many of
the Christians that I know.
I know good people who are Christians and Jews, but I tend only to
recognize the whacko deviants in the religious base that I am closest to.
Most of the Jews that I know are not practicing... same with the
Catholics... so it is often difficult for me to get a good reading on
core beliefs.
I tend to avoid discussing any religion that I do not understand the
workings of and with your rantings you make it easier for me to relate.
I'd say that your rantings go a long ways towards opening up tolerance.
Please keep ranting.
So I heard this guy on C-Span explaining how the protestant Ronald
Reagan thought God had saved him from his near assassination for him to
complete a mission of destoying the Soviet Empire and that the Pope told
him it was so as well as Mother Teresa. I wonder what God says to Dubya?
][<en
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:49:22 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: More rounder heads with fewer smaller beanies
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In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:57:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Actually your rants make me feel a whole lot more comfortable with the
revelation, at least to me, of the magnitude of diversity between Jews.
There's an old joke about a ship that finds a Jew shipwrecked on a desert island.
The captain comes ashore and sees that there are two buildings, and asks the
Jew what the first building is. The Jew says "That's my synagogue." So they
ask what the second building is, and the Jew says "That's the synagogue I don't
go to." As I believe I've said before, anybody who thinks there's enough
agreement between the Jews (or even any TWO Jews) to take over the world, much
less agree on what to do with it afterwards, is wildly deluded.
I begin to realize that Jews are just as crazy and whacked as many of
the Christians that I know. Whaddaya mean? You're nowhere near as nuts as we
are.
I know good people who are Christians and Jews, but I tend only to
recognize the whacko deviants in the religious base that I am closest to.
Most of the Jews that I know are not practicing... same with the
Catholics... so it is often difficult for me to get a good reading on
core beliefs. Our core belief is that, if I may paraphrase, people should be
nice. And God says so.
I tend to avoid discussing any religion that I do not understand the
workings of and with your rantings you make it easier for me to relate.
I'd say that your rantings go a long ways towards opening up tolerance. In
that case, maybe I should rant MORE....Please keep ranting. Well, if you
insist....
So I heard this guy on C-Span explaining how the protestant Ronald
Reagan thought God had saved him from his near assassination for him to
complete a mission of destoying the Soviet Empire and that the Pope told
him it was so as well as Mother Teresa. I wonder what God says to Dubya? I
think we're all seeing what God tells Dubya. Or maybe what we see is what
Cheney tells Dubya, if we can believe Bob Woodward on 60 Minutes last night.
Ralph
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rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:57:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, orgreas=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Actually your rants make me feel a whole lot m=
ore comfortable with the<BR>revelation, at least to me, of the magnitude of=20=
diversity between Jews. <STRONG>There's an old joke about a ship that finds=20=
a Jew shipwrecked on a desert island. The captain comes ashore and=
sees that there are two buildings, and asks the Jew what the first building=
is. The Jew says "That's my synagogue." So they ask what the se=
cond building is, and the Jew says "That's the synagogue I don't go to.=
" As I believe I've said before, anybody who thinks there's enou=
gh agreement between the Jews (or even any TWO Jews) to take over the world,=
much less agree on what to do with it afterwards, is wildly delu=
ded.</STRONG><BR>I begin to realize that Jews are just as crazy and whacked=20=
as many of<BR>the Christians that I know. <STRONG>Whaddaya mean? You'r=
e nowhere <U>near</U> as nuts as we are.</STRONG><BR>I know good people who=20=
are Christians and Jews, but I tend only to<BR>recognize the whacko deviants=
in the religious base that I am closest to.<BR>Most of the Jews that I know=
are not practicing... same with the<BR>Catholics... so it is often difficul=
t for me to get a good reading on<BR>core beliefs. <STRONG>Our core be=
lief is that, if I may paraphrase, people should be nice. And God says=
so.</STRONG><BR>I tend to avoid discussing any religion that I do not under=
stand the<BR>workings of and with your rantings you make it easier for me to=
relate.<BR>I'd say that your rantings go a long ways towards opening up tol=
erance. <STRONG>In that case, maybe I should rant MORE....</STRONG>Please ke=
ep ranting. <STRONG>Well, if you insist.</STRONG><STRONG>...</STRONG><B=
R><BR>So I heard this guy on C-Span explaining how the protestant Ronald<BR>=
Reagan thought God had saved him from his near assassination for him to<BR>c=
omplete a mission of destoying the Soviet Empire and that the Pope told<BR>h=
im it was so as well as Mother Teresa. I wonder what God says to Dubya? <STR=
ONG>I think we're all seeing what God tells Dubya. Or maybe what=20=
we see is what <U>Cheney</U> tells Dubya, if we can believe Bob Woodward on=20=
60 Minutes last night.</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082378962--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:25:09 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Blandair Farm Timber Frame Workshop
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*Photo Gallery*
*On April 1, 2 and 3,* Howard County Recreation and Parks, in conjuction
with the Preservation Tades Network, presented a three-day timber frame
workshop at Historic Blandair Farm. Participants worked on the Seed Barn
while learning the age-old craft of timber framing.
http://www.co.ho.md.us/rap/rap%5Fphotogallery.htm
--Boundary_(ID_ltLksh8ZqpTVTRcz37BCBg)
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<head>
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<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<p><font color="green" size="3"><b>Photo Gallery</b></font></p>
<b>On April 1, 2 and 3,</b> Howard County Recreation and Parks, in
conjuction with the Preservation Tades Network, presented a three-day
timber frame workshop at Historic Blandair Farm. Participants worked on
the Seed Barn while learning the age-old craft of timber framing.<br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.co.ho.md.us/rap/rap%5Fphotogallery.htm">http://www.co.ho.md.us/rap/rap%5Fphotogallery.htm</a></font>
</body>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:32:08 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: smamcopped
In-Reply-To: <00a501c425b4$5b3111e0$5bc2f63f@D9KP2H41>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I feel so CHEATED, I don't get the Eisenhower and donkey ones. Ruth
At 10:16 PM -0400 4/18/04, creighton wrote:
I wonder if I made it back on to the list? My IP tells me
BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS has been SPAMING people so they saved me, thank GOD.
Lucky me though- I still hear from our friend from Nigeria, get Viagra ads,
get promised stunning explicit photos of Dwight Eisenhower and a donkey AND
get very helpfull stock tips constantly creighton doughting thomas
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:57:11 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: smamcopped
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In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:36:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I feel so CHEATED, I don't get the Eisenhower and donkey ones. Ruth
Ruth,
I don't get those, either, which makes me wonder about the people who DO get
them.
Ralph
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:36:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, mrgjb@SO=
VER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I feel so CHEATED, I don't get the Eisenhower=20=
and donkey ones. Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ruth,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I don't get those, either, which makes me wonder about the peop=
le who DO get them.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082465831--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:34 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Hicks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: smamcopped
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----- Original Message -----=20
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [BP] smamcopped
In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:36:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
I feel so CHEATED, I don't get the Eisenhower and donkey ones. Ruth
Ruth,
I don't get those, either, which makes me wonder about the people who =
DO get them.
Ralph
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
[log in to unmask]
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINH=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 20, 2004 =
8:57=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP] =
smamcopped</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:36:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
face=3DArial>I feel so CHEATED, I don't get the Eisenhower and =
donkey=20
ones. Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ruth,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I don't get those, either, which makes me wonder about =
the people=20
who DO get them.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Ralph</STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:05:57 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Hicks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Fall of Heroes
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The GOP has no shame!
----- Original Message -----=20
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BP] The Rise and Fall of Heroes
In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:55:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ralph,
We may thank my brother in Houston who was sent it from someone that =
I
suspect knows the author. In that case, thank him for me. =
Considering the subject and content of the piece I have to say that =
Cynthia Kuehner is a good writer to pull it off. I should say so.The =
quality and detail alone of the piece give it the weight of truth. I was =
about to say, "I hope to God it is truth," but I'm not at all sure that =
I want what she wrote to be the truth. A friend of mine was a nurse in =
Vietnam and wrote a collection of short stories about her experiences. =
They don't quite grip like this text does. This one sure is good.
I've found myself being irritated over folks who make out that a
questioning of the current administration's actions and policies is
somehow equated with 1) not supporting our troops or their families =
or
2) a lack of patriotism. There was a very interesting piece on the =
news Fri night (I think it was Fri) about how Marine families in San =
Diego don't make enough money to survive on-- they wind up having to get =
food from some sort of food pantries which are supplied by Cub Scouts. =
And then they had the Republican congressman from SD talking about how =
our country is so fucking great because we don't rely on the govt to =
provide everything--we're great because of volunteers (like little =
fucking Cub Scouts) who provide things (like enough food to keep =
Marines' families from starving). These sons of bitches should be =
ashamed of themselves over THIS if nothing else. Our Marine in Qatar =
sent an on-the-scenes in
Iraq communication to me with the preliminary that, "I understand =
that
there are several of you back home that have your own opinion about =
the
war...you are all entitled. However, remember that while you sit =
and
criticize our nations leaders over coffee, that there are several =
men
and women that are putting their lives on the line...EVERYDAY!" I'm
really pissed that if for the short term political election a =
rhetoric
is pushed that will make the troops feel, as with the Vietnam
experience, that they are not appreciated at home. Interesting =
idea-- Bush and his assholes have set this up to make everybody who =
disagrees with him the bad guys. DUH!!!!!! I sounded off with my best =
buddy, I care about this kid, and we have it worked out. One thing=20
that I have learned in my old age is that the career military =
contains
some of the most effective pacifists that I have ever met. =
Interesting. I can see where little Jarheads and those types of guys are =
hot to kick ass, but I should think that people like this nurse are =
disgusted by this. It took me a
long time to figure this out. Another thing that bothers me is when
radical conservatives steal away and co-op the flag as if it is only
their right to honor... just as much as it bothers me when the flag =
is
desecrated. yep. What I find likewise odd is that the patriotic =
zealots don't
always know the rules of interface with a flag and that their =
ignorance
is a most dishonorable disrespect. A calendar with a flag with 18
stripes, or a Ralph Loren logo on a baseball cap without enough =
stripes
though in a well balanced mix of colors.=20
I got Dick Clark's book in audio, anybody interested in a copy? I'd =
rather read it in the original--or does he read it himself? THAT would =
be interesting.
I'm gonna go play with rectangles ofectangles of backed clay and =
dirt in the front yard. Sounds good to me. I gotta go shopping, but =
first I gotta shower and get dressed, and later I gotta figure out some =
sort of budget stuff for post-divorce. Meanwhile, I told Dov Thurs that =
I had gotten an alternate job offer, and he came back offering me $7000 =
LESS than the new place is going to start me at, and the POSSIBILITY of =
a partnership with his asshole son-in-law. Wouldn't you have jumped at =
the offer of a partnership with Marty Stecklow?=20
Irritated on a sunny day on Lung Island, Don't be irritated--unless =
you're going to enjoy it. It's too nice a day.
][<en
Ralph
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<DIV>The GOP has no shame!</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
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<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
[log in to unmask]
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINH=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 18, 2004 =
12:15=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP] The Rise and =
Fall of=20
Heroes</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:55:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
face=3DArial>Ralph,<BR><BR>We may thank my brother in Houston who =
was sent it=20
from someone that I<BR>suspect knows the author. <STRONG>In that =
case, thank=20
him for me. </STRONG>Considering the subject and content of the =
piece I have=20
to say that Cynthia Kuehner is a good writer to pull it off. =
<STRONG>I=20
should say so.</STRONG>The quality and detail alone of the piece =
give it the=20
weight of truth. <STRONG>I was about to say, "I hope to God it is =
truth,"=20
but I'm not at all sure that I want what she wrote to be the =
truth. =20
</STRONG>A friend of mine was a nurse in Vietnam and wrote a =
collection=20
of short stories about her experiences. They don't quite grip like =
this text=20
does. <STRONG>This one sure is good.</STRONG><BR><BR>I've found =
myself being=20
irritated over folks who make out that a<BR>questioning of the =
current=20
administration's actions and policies is<BR>somehow equated with 1) =
not=20
supporting our troops or their families or<BR>2) a lack of =
patriotism.=20
<STRONG>There was a very interesting piece on the news Fri night (I =
think it=20
was Fri) about how Marine families in San Diego don't make enough =
money to=20
survive on-- they wind up having to get food from some sort of food =
pantries=20
which are supplied by Cub Scouts. And then they had the=20
Republican congressman from SD talking about how our country =
is so=20
fucking great because we don't rely on the govt to provide=20
everything--we're great because of volunteers (like little =
fucking Cub=20
Scouts) who provide things (like enough food to keep Marines' =
families from=20
starving). These sons of bitches should be ashamed of =
themselves over=20
THIS if nothing else.</STRONG> Our Marine in Qatar sent an=20
on-the-scenes in<BR>Iraq communication to me with the preliminary =
that, "I=20
understand that<BR>there are several of you back home that have your =
own=20
opinion about the<BR>war...you are all entitled. However, =
remember=20
that while you sit and<BR>criticize our nations leaders over coffee, =
that=20
there are several men<BR>and women that are putting their lives on =
the=20
line...EVERYDAY!" I'm<BR>really pissed that if for the short term =
political=20
election a rhetoric<BR>is pushed that will make the troops feel, as =
with the=20
Vietnam<BR>experience, that they are not appreciated at home.=20
<STRONG>Interesting idea-- Bush and his assholes have set this =
up to=20
make everybody who disagrees with him the bad guys. =20
DUH!!!!!!</STRONG> I sounded off with my best buddy, I care =
about this=20
kid, and we have it worked out. One thing <BR>that I have learned in =
my old=20
age is that the career military contains<BR>some of the most =
effective=20
pacifists that I have ever met. <STRONG>Interesting. I can see where =
little=20
Jarheads and those types of guys are hot to kick ass, but I should =
think=20
that people like this nurse are disgusted by this. </STRONG>It took =
me=20
a<BR>long time to figure this out. Another thing that bothers me is=20
when<BR>radical conservatives steal away and co-op the flag as if it =
is=20
only<BR>their right to honor... just as much as it bothers me when =
the flag=20
is<BR>desecrated. <STRONG>yep.</STRONG> What I find likewise =
odd is=20
that the patriotic zealots don't<BR>always know the rules of =
interface with=20
a flag and that their ignorance<BR>is a most dishonorable =
disrespect. A=20
calendar with a flag with 18<BR>stripes, or a Ralph Loren logo on a =
baseball=20
cap without enough stripes<BR>though in a well balanced mix of =
colors.=20
<BR><BR>I got Dick Clark's book in audio, anybody interested in a =
copy?=20
<STRONG>I'd rather read it in the original--or does he read it =
himself? THAT=20
would be interesting.</STRONG><BR>I'm gonna go play with rectangles=20
ofectangles of backed clay and dirt in the front yard. =
<STRONG>Sounds good=20
to me. I gotta go shopping, but first I gotta shower and get =
dressed,=20
and later I gotta figure out some sort of budget stuff for=20
post-divorce. Meanwhile, I told Dov Thurs that I had gotten an =
alternate job offer, and he came back offering me $7000 LESS than =
the new=20
place is going to start me at, and the POSSIBILITY of a partnership =
with his=20
asshole son-in-law. Wouldn't you have jumped at the offer =
of a=20
partnership with Marty Stecklow? </STRONG><BR><BR>Irritated on =
a sunny=20
day on Lung Island, <STRONG>Don't be irritated--unless you're going =
to enjoy=20
it. It's too nice a day.</STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>][<en</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C426AE.4F735520--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:12:57 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York City...
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Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New York City
In 1908 the architect James Riely Gordon designed a 12-story apartment house
with a neo-Gothic terra cotta front for a site on the east side of Gramercy
Park, for the developer John E. Olson. The construction cost of the building
was stated as $400,000, making a more ambitious project than the conventional
speculative building of the same area, like that at 255 West 90th Street (1909;
$250,000).
For someone with a long interest in the custom and culture of apartment
design, construction and marketing in this period, these specs made interesting
reading. I obtained them from the Alexander Architectural Archive, at the
University of Texas (Austin) with the help of curator Nancy Sparrow and Lea Cline, a
local researcher.
Reproduced below is a list of the separate divisions of the specifications
(with notations as to which divisions are missing from the archive) and
particular entries or paragraphs I found illuminating. Comments are solicited on any
item, especially how the conditions of 1908 translate - or do not translate -
into modern construction practices. (I remember a long back and forth a year
ago about "conveniences".)
Christopher Gray
Division #1 - Forms, including a list of subsequent divisions [* = missing]
"KEEP these SPECIFICATIONS FLAT, under no circumstances fold or roll any
division ...."
1 Instructions to bidders, forms
2 General conditions
3 Materials*
4 General masonry*
5 Excavation*
6 Concrete*
7 Brickwork*
8 Stonework
9 Terra cotta
10 Structural steel and iron*
11 Fireproofing*
12 Carpentry
13 Roofing and sheet metal
14 Ornamental iron and bronze*
15 Lathing and plastering
16 Cement, tile and marble
17 Joinery, glazing and hardware
18 Painting and decorating*
19 Plumbing and gasfitting* [sub-specifications for the standpipe system do
survive]
20 Heating and ventilating
21 Electric work
22 Elevators, mail chute and vacuum cleaning*
#2 General Conditions
"Execute all CARVING and other ornamental work delineated or hereinafter
mentioned, from plaster or other approved models, made by a New York City Modeller
... LEAVE SUCH MODELS at the building as are used there, in good condition,
for comparison with the finished work, after which, they are to be at the
disposition of the Architect."
"CONVENIENCES: The GENERAL CONTRACTOR will arrange with the PLUMBER to
provide conveniences for the use of the workmen employed on the building; supply
same with properly located and well ventilated enclosures; remove their contents;
maintain them cleanly during the progress of the work and entirely remove
them on its completion. Thoroughly disinfect the SITE and supply fresh earth
where necessary."
#8 Stonework
"SETTING DRAWINGS: Furnish to the Architect for his approval, three
complete sets of DRAWINGS of every course of stonework, showing size, shape and
jointing of every piece of stone including location of ANCHORS, CLAMPS and DOWELS
..." (Note, 2004: it is hard to believe that the typical speculative building
in New York City of this general type would ever have had such intricate
drawings prepared.)
"BEDS & JOINTS: Allow for 1/4" joint and 3/8" bed in GRANITE work and 1/4"
joint and bed in LIMESTONE and 1/8" joint and 3/16" bed in MARBLE work. Execute
beds and joints windless." (Query, 2004: Why the variation in bedding
widths. What is "windless"?)
[set all stones] "... in a swimming bed for the mortar specified..." (Query,
2004: "swimming bed"?)
"ANCHOR each stone ...with one galvanized wrought iron anchor 1/4" x 1" 8"
long..." (Query, 2004: From current forensic investigations, is it clear that
such anchors were routinely galvanized? Or is this "a grade up" from standard?
Were other materials reasonably available at the time which might have
lasted longer?)
"STONE QUARRY: ... the Architect reserves the privilege of examining the
quarries...." (Note, 2004: this passage, from an early draft of the
specifications, was deleted from the final version.)
#9 Ornamental Terra Cotta
"BURN hard and make to the exact profile, and ornamental detail and of the
exact COLORS to be approved by the Architect...."
"MODELS: Before commencing ... have full size plaster models made from the
Architect's designs...." (Note, 2004: this passage indicates not only that the
contractor had to follow individual drawings for each detail, but that the
architect actually made such drawings.")
"PROVIDE ALL COLUMNS with entasis and diminution; and PILASTERS without
entasis or diminution...."
"SET in colored mortar to exactly match shade of TERRA COTTA...."
#16 Cement, Marble and Tile
[Tile floors] "...apply a preparation of bees wax and paraphine and rub in
with woolen cloth..." (Query, 2004: what's this for - stain resistance?)
"Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of approximately 12" x
12", or so such multiples as will work out in the area of the room." (Note,
2004: this passage indicates that the architect was not so picky about the marble
floor.)
"HIGHLY POLISH all exposed surfaces except floor tile, and treads...."
"RUN POLISHED WHITE ITALIAN MARBLE BASE 6" high around all walls where tile
floors are specified excepting Bath rooms...." (Note, 2004: this seems to
include only kitchens and pantry areas.)
#17 Joinery and Hardware
[Relating to raw woodwork, once in place]: "... scrape and sandpaper away all
SPOTS, finger marks, lime, ACID, TOBACCO, oil and other STAINS..." (Note,
2004: this suggests the use of chewing tobacco by the work crew.)
"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without ENTASIS..."
"BEAM THE CEILING in Dining rooms as shown, of White quartered oak or
Chestnut as stipulated...." (Note, 2004: the typical apartment house of this period
has common wood beams, stained and filled to imitate the more expensive woods
of the panelling."
#20 Heating
"Install a complete plant to heat the entire building to a temperature of 70
degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is zero." (Note, 2004: the
lack of reference in this section to architect's drawings or specifications
indicates that the placement of radiators and piping was left up to the heating
contractor.)
"FIRING TOOLS: Furnish the following firing tools for each boiler:
ONE wrought iron poker
ONE wrought iron hoe
ONE wrought iron slice bar
ONE scoop shovel
ONE flue cleaner, suitable for boilers
ONE wrought iron scraper with sectional pipe handle, for cleaning smoke
breaching."
"HANDSOMELY Bronze all direct radiators .. with one coat of best quality
gold paint..."
-------------------------------1082484777
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Construction specifications for a 1908 a=
partment house in New York City<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">In 1908 the architect James Riely Gordon=
designed a 12-story apartment house with a neo-Gothic terra cotta front for=
a site on the east side of Gramercy Park, for the developer John E. Olson.&=
nbsp; The construction cost of the building was stated as $400,000, ma=
king a more ambitious project than the conventional speculative building of=20=
the same area, like that at 255 West 90th Street (1909; $250,000).</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">For someone with a long interest in the=20=
custom and culture of apartment design, construction and marketing in this p=
eriod, these specs made interesting reading. I obtained them from the=20=
Alexander Architectural Archive, at the University of Texas (Austin) with th=
e help of curator Nancy Sparrow and Lea Cline, a local researcher. &nbs=
p; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Reproduced below is a list of the separa=
te divisions of the specifications (with notations as to which divisions are=
missing from the archive) and particular entries or paragraphs I found illu=
minating. Comments are solicited on any item, especially how the=
conditions of 1908 translate - or do not translate - into modern constructi=
on practices. (I remember a long back and forth a year ago about "convenienc=
es".)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher Gray<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Division #1 - Forms, including a list of=
subsequent divisions [* =3D missing]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"KEEP these SPECIFICATIONS FLAT, under n=
o circumstances fold or roll any division ...."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">1 Instructions to bidders, forms<B=
R>2 General conditions<BR>3 Materials*<BR>4 General masonr=
y*<BR>5 Excavation*<BR>6 Concrete*<BR>7 Brickwork*<BR>8&nb=
sp; Stonework<BR>9 Terra cotta<BR>10 Structural steel and iron*<BR>11=20=
Fireproofing*<BR>12 Carpentry<BR>13 Roofing and sheet metal<BR>14 Ornamental=
iron and bronze*<BR>15 Lathing and plastering<BR>16 Cement, tile and marble=
<BR>17 Joinery, glazing and hardware<BR>18 Painting and decorating*<BR>19 Pl=
umbing and gasfitting* [sub-specifications for the standpipe system do survi=
ve]<BR>20 Heating and ventilating<BR>21 Electric work<BR>22 Elevators, mail=20=
chute and vacuum cleaning*<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">#2 General Conditions</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"Execute all CARVING and other ornamenta=
l work delineated or hereinafter mentioned, from plaster or other approved m=
odels, made by a New York City Modeller ... LEAVE SUCH MODELS at the buildin=
g as are used there, in good condition, for comparison with the finished wor=
k, after which, they are to be at the disposition of the Architect."</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"CONVENIENCES: The GENERAL CONTRACTOR wi=
ll arrange with the PLUMBER to provide conveniences for the use of the workm=
en employed on the building; supply same with properly located and well vent=
ilated enclosures; remove their contents; maintain them cleanly during the p=
rogress of the work and entirely remove them on its completion. Thoroughly d=
isinfect the SITE and supply fresh earth where necessary."<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR>#8 Stonework</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"SETTING DRAWINGS: Furnish t=
o the Architect for his approval, three complete sets of DRAWINGS of every c=
ourse of stonework, showing size, shape and jointing of every piece of stone=
including location of ANCHORS, CLAMPS and DOWELS ..." (Note, 20=
04: it is hard to believe that the typical speculative building in New York=20=
City of this general type would ever have had such intricate drawings prepar=
ed.) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"BEDS & JOINTS: Allow for 1/4" joint=
and 3/8" bed in GRANITE work and 1/4" joint and bed in LIMESTONE and 1/8" j=
oint and 3/16" bed in MARBLE work. Execute beds and joints windless."&=
nbsp; (Query, 2004: Why the variation in bedding widths. What is "wind=
less"?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">[set all stones] "... in a swimming bed=20=
for the mortar specified..." (Query, 2004: "swimming bed"?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"ANCHOR each stone ...with one galvanize=
d wrought iron anchor 1/4" x 1" 8" long..." (Query, 2004: From current=
forensic investigations, is it clear that such anchors were routinely galva=
nized? Or is this "a grade up" from standard? Were other materia=
ls reasonably available at the time which might have lasted longer?)</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"STONE QUARRY: ... the Architect reserve=
s the privilege of examining the quarries...." (Note, 2004: this passa=
ge, from an early draft of the specifications, was deleted from the final ve=
rsion.)<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR>#9 Ornamental Terra Cotta</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"BURN hard and make to the exact profile=
, and ornamental detail and of the exact COLORS to be approved by the Archit=
ect...."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"MODELS: Before commencing ... have full=
size plaster models made from the Architect's designs...." (Note, 200=
4: this passage indicates not only that the contractor had to follow individ=
ual drawings for each detail, but that the architect actually made such draw=
ings.")</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"PROVIDE ALL COLUMNS with entasis and di=
minution; and PILASTERS without entasis or diminution...." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"SET in colored mortar to exactly match=20=
shade of TERRA COTTA...."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3D"Times N=
ew Roman">
<DIV><BR>#16 Cement, Marble and Tile</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>[Tile floors] "...apply a preparation of bees wax and paraphine and rub=
in with woolen cloth..." (Query, 2004: what's this for - stain resist=
ance?)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of approximately 12"=
x 12", or so such multiples as will work out in the area of the room." =
; (Note, 2004: this passage indicates that the architect was not so picky ab=
out the marble floor.) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HIGHLY POLISH all exposed surfaces except floor tile, and treads...."<=
/DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"RUN POLISHED WHITE ITALIAN MARBLE BASE 6" high around all walls where=20=
tile floors are specified excepting Bath rooms...." (Note, 2004: this=20=
seems to include only kitchens and pantry areas.)<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>#17 Joinery and Hardware</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>[Relating to raw woodwork, once in place]: "... scrape and sandpaper aw=
ay all SPOTS, finger marks, lime, ACID, TOBACCO, oil and other STAINS..."&nb=
sp; (Note, 2004: this suggests the use of chewing tobacco by the work crew.)=
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without ENTASIS..."</D=
IV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"BEAM THE CEILING in Dining rooms as shown, of White quartered oak or C=
hestnut as stipulated...." (Note, 2004: the typical apartment ho=
use of this period has common wood beams, stained and filled to imitate the=20=
more expensive woods of the panelling."<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>#20 Heating</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Install a complete plant to heat the entire building to a temperature=20=
of 70 degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is zero." (Note,=
2004: the lack of reference in this section to architect's drawings or spec=
ifications indicates that the placement of radiators and piping was left up=20=
to the heating contractor.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"FIRING TOOLS: Furnish the following firing tools for each boiler:</DIV=
>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ONE wrought iron poker<BR>ONE wrought iron hoe<BR>ONE wrought iron slic=
e bar<BR>ONE scoop shovel<BR>ONE flue cleaner, suitable for boilers<BR>ONE w=
rought iron scraper with sectional pipe handle, for cleaning smoke breaching=
."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HANDSOMELY Bronze all direct radiators .. with one coat of best=20=
quality gold paint..." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082484777--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:19:26 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: love/hate relationship w/ NYC
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how good it felt to be on the train yesterday, anniversary of OK City
bombing and Waco- and Columbine
and all of a sudden the LIRR is coming over th PA w/ vague announcements
about delays due to
"police activity"- and 20 minute delays when by watch we were already 30
minutes late.....
But then today I ended up in the Lobby of 200 Madison- 35th to 36th, a
spot I strongly suggest anyone in the neighborhood check out...
Kind of a "DaVinci Code" Arabesque Riot, Zodiac signs, 5 & 6 pointed
stars, A compass Rose in the floor..
--
J.A. Drew Diaz
EDGE Development Construction
Suite 1205
150 W 28th St
NY, NY 10001
t 212.741.7348
f 212.741.7423
c 917.971.1577
e [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
w http://edgedc.com <http://edgedc.com/>
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<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
how good it felt to be on the train yesterday, anniversary of OK City
bombing and Waco- and Columbine<br>
and all of a sudden the LIRR is coming over th PA w/ vague
announcements about delays due to <br>
"police activity"- and 20 minute delays when by watch we were already
30 minutes late.....<br>
<br>
<br>
But then today I ended up in the Lobby of 200 Madison- 35th to 36th, a
spot I strongly suggest anyone in the neighborhood check out...<br>
Kind of a "DaVinci Code" Arabesque Riot, Zodiac signs, 5 & 6
pointed stars, A compass Rose in the floor..<br>
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">J.A.
Drew Diaz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">EDGE
Development Construction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Suite</span></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 1205</span></st1:address><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">150 W 28th St</span></st1:address></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">NY</span></st1:City><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">10001</st1:PostalCode></span></st1:place><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">t</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7348<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">f</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7423<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">c</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 917.971.1577<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">e</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">w</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="http://edgedc.com/">http://edgedc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:36:42 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York City...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Met History [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:13 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [BP] Construction specifications for a 1908=20
> apartment house in New York City...
>=20
>=20
> "Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of=20
> approximately 12" x 12", or so such multiples as will work=20
> out in the area of the room." (Note, 2004: this passage=20
> indicates that the architect was not so picky about the=20
> marble floor.) =20
I read this to be as picky as any of the other.
Tennessee Marble is a specifically named marble of known color and
texture; I have a 4" x 5" specification sample on my desk from the
Orpheum Theatre restoration in Memphis, ca 1983. It is labeled "Regular
Tenn." I use it as my cold beverage coaster.
The architect was also very concerned about the symmetry of the tile
placement on the floor of his entrance hall. No cut tiles at the edges
just because the walls didn't quite end up dimensionally where the plans
direct them. The designer is taking into account the vagaries and
potential imprecision of building layout, and saying that "no matter how
the walls ended up, I want the tiles to all be the same dimension
relative to each direction of the joints, 12.5" running east-west,
11.75" running north-south, or whatever it needs to be for the joints to
work out at the walls with no cutting of the tile size."
But he said it in a funny-sounding different accent than folks
hereabouts would.=20
_______________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "The workman ought often to
Raleigh Historic be thinking, and the thinker
Districts Commission often to be working."
[log in to unmask] -- John Ruskin
919/807-8480=20
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:41:06 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-------------------------------1082486466
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In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I read this to be as picky as any of the other.
How does this square with the absence of a requirement for extensive
drawings, which were required for granite, limestone, terra cotta, etc.?
christopher
-------------------------------1082486466
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dan.Beck=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I read this to be as picky as any of the other=
.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">How does this square with the absence of=
a requirement for extensive drawings, which were required for granite,=
limestone, terra cotta, etc.? christopher</FONT></D=
IV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082486466--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:11:15 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house
in New York C...
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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4270B.405BA041"
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charset="us-ascii"
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-----Original Message-----
From: Met History [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house
in New York C...
In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I read this to be as picky as any of the other.
How does this square with the absence of a requirement for extensive
drawings, which were required for granite, limestone, terra cotta, etc.?
christopher=20
I'm just guessing now, but to use your word, I would guess it squares
because it is basically square.=20
=20
Are you distinguishing between specs for interior and exterior
stonework? The requirements for fasteners are not the same. No outdoor
weathering concerns, so the detailing is not as critical. Just flat work
held down by gravity on a mortar bed. The architect is being picky about
what counts in each circumstance.
=20
D.
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Met=20
History [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 20, =
2004=20
2:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP]=20
Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New York=20
C...<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
face=3DArial>I read this to be as picky as any of the=20
other.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">How does this square with the =
absence of a=20
requirement for extensive drawings, which were required for =
granite,=20
limestone, terra cotta, etc.? =
christopher</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D095190419-20042004> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D095190419-20042004>I'm =
just guessing=20
now, but to use your word, I would guess it squares because it is =
basically=20
square. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D095190419-20042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D095190419-20042004>Are =
you=20
distinguishing between specs for interior and exterior stonework? The=20
requirements for fasteners are not the same. No outdoor weathering =
concerns, so=20
the detailing is not as critical. Just flat work held down by gravity on =
a=20
mortar bed. The architect is being picky about what counts in each=20
circumstance.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D095190419-20042004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D095190419-20042004>D.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:03:47 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:13:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
#2 General Conditions
"Execute all CARVING and other ornamental work delineated or hereinafter
mentioned, from plaster or other approved models, made by a New York City Modeller
... LEAVE SUCH MODELS at the building as are used there, in good condition,
for comparison with the finished work, after which, they are to be at the
disposition of the Architect." Nowadays we still call for (i.e, specify) mockups to
be made by the Contractor, most often in my experience of new/infill
brickwork, which is either supposed to be left on site to incorporated into the
finish wall so that we can go whining to the contractor about how his actual work
is nowhere near as nice as the mockup he made.
"CONVENIENCES: The GENERAL CONTRACTOR will arrange with the PLUMBER to
provide conveniences for the use of the workmen employed on the building; supply
same with properly located and well ventilated enclosures; remove their contents;
maintain them cleanly during the progress of the work and entirely remove
them on its completion. Thoroughly disinfect the SITE and supply fresh earth
where necessary." Nowadays we have the workers use a particular toilet/lavatory,
and the contractor has to keep it clean during the course of the work and leave
it clean and repair any damage caused by his forces when the job is done.
#8 Stonework
"SETTING DRAWINGS: Furnish to the Architect for his approval, three
complete sets of DRAWINGS of every course of stonework, showing size, shape and
jointing of every piece of stone including location of ANCHORS, CLAMPS and DOWELS
..." (Note, 2004: it is hard to believe that the typical speculative building
in New York City of this general type would ever have had such intricate
drawings prepared.) In my experience, which doesn't include speculative
buildings, the stonework shop and setting drawings have to be prepared and submitted to
make sure that the stone will A) be cut right at the quarry/shop, and B) be
set properly in the field. I suppose if you were cladding a building with
stone tile you might get away without doing shop drawings (because the tile would
all be field cut anyway), but there should be setting drawings showing oddball
stone details over which the Architect (or housewife) will throw a hissy fit
if they're not done right, and typical and special anchorage details.
"BEDS & JOINTS: Allow for 1/4" joint and 3/8" bed in GRANITE work and 1/4"
joint and bed in LIMESTONE and 1/8" joint and 3/16" bed in MARBLE work. Execute
beds and joints windless." (Query, 2004: Why the variation in bedding
widths. What is "windless"?) Can't answer EITHER of these questions., but my guess
is "windless" means air tight, but I don't know how anybody would test for it,
or why anybody would care.
[set all stones] "... in a swimming bed for the mortar specified..." (Query,
2004: "swimming bed"?) Not know.Ask Ken.
"ANCHOR each stone ...with one galvanized wrought iron anchor 1/4" x 1" 8"
long..." (Query, 2004: From current forensic investigations, is it clear that
such anchors were routinely galvanized? Or is this "a grade up" from standard?
Were other materials reasonably available at the time which might have
lasted longer?) Some were and some weren't. If the anchors got wet, they would've
rusted more slowly if they were galvanized, and therefore would have taken
longer to spall, crack or otherwise damage the stone. Good jobs back then
would've used bronze anchors (I should think), and only a moron today sets stone
or TC with anything other than stainless steel anchors. Brick is a little more
forgiving, but given a choice, I'd take stainless.
"STONE QUARRY: ... the Architect reserves the privilege of examining the
quarries...." (Note, 2004: this passage, from an early draft of the
specifications, was deleted from the final version.) We (William J [no period, as he has
no middle name, only a middle initial] Conklin and I) went down to look at the
Georgia Marble quarries when we couldn't understand why the samples we were
being sent of Cherokee White Marble didn't match the original sample (about 4"
square of snow white marble with large crystalline structure) that the Brooklyn
Boro Hall stone specifications were based on. Turned out that there WAS no
snow white slab any larger than 4" in any direction, and ALL of the marble
looked like someone had thrown a bottle of blue ink at it, but we didn't know that
until we went down to the quarry and saw it for ourselves, and by then it was
WAY too late to change the spec.
#9 Ornamental Terra Cotta
"BURN hard and make to the exact profile, and ornamental detail and of the
exact COLORS to be approved by the Architect...." The alternative is to let the
contractor/TC fabricator make any damn thing in whatever cheap-ass sloppy way
he wants.
"MODELS: Before commencing ... have full size plaster models made from the
Architect's designs...." (Note, 2004: this passage indicates not only that the
contractor had to follow individual drawings for each detail, but that the
architect actually made such drawings.") Ya gotta make the models before you can
make the molds, and once the models are approved, they can start the molds
and then they fabricate the terra cotta.
"PROVIDE ALL COLUMNS with entasis and diminution; and PILASTERS without
entasis or diminution...." Don't know why the distinction, except that maybe they
were saving a few bucks on the pilasters.
"SET in colored mortar to exactly match shade of TERRA COTTA...." If ya want
it to match, you gotta tell 'em.
#16 Cement, Marble and Tile
[Tile floors] "...apply a preparation of bees wax and paraphine and rub in
with woolen cloth..." (Query, 2004: what's this for - stain resistance?)
Probably protection, and to give it a nice gloss for a few days.
"Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of approximately 12" x
12", or so such multiples as will work out in the area of the room." (Note,
2004: this passage indicates that the architect was not so picky about the marble
floor.) My guess is that they were trying to stick the contractor with
making up the floor tiles to some weird-ass size that the architect was too lazy to
and really couldn't calculate, and if the tiles had to be 12 3/8" x 12 3/8"
to get the right pattern without a billion little shitty filler pieces, then
that's what the contractor had to do. But this was probably accommodated by
widening whatever border there was around the checkerboard floor pattern.
"HIGHLY POLISH all exposed surfaces except floor tile, and treads...." Don't
want 'em falling on their ass.
"RUN POLISHED WHITE ITALIAN MARBLE BASE 6" high around all walls where tile
floors are specified excepting Bath rooms...." (Note, 2004: this seems to
include only kitchens and pantry areas.) For some reason they seem to have wanted
tile base in the bathrooms and marble elsewhere. Dunno why.
#17 Joinery and Hardware
[Relating to raw woodwork, once in place]: "... scrape and sandpaper away all
SPOTS, finger marks, lime, ACID, TOBACCO, oil and other STAINS..." (Note,
2004: this suggests the use of chewing tobacco by the work crew.) Well, no
spit, Sherlock.
"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without ENTASIS..." So
what???
"BEAM THE CEILING in Dining rooms as shown, of White quartered oak or
Chestnut as stipulated...." (Note, 2004: the typical apartment house of this period
has common wood probably poplar, which takes dark stain well and is cheap
beams, stained and filled to imitate the more expensive woods of the panelling."
#20 Heating
"Install a complete plant to heat the entire building to a temperature of 70
degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is zero." (Note, 2004: the
lack of reference in this section to architect's drawings or specifications
indicates that the placement of radiators and piping was left up to the heating
contractor.) A smart spec calls for this sort of performance. One would think
there would've been SOME sort of requirements given for how to run
piping...and maybe all you got was the architectural spec, and for some reason not the
plumbing spec.
"FIRING TOOLS: Furnish the following firing tools for each boiler:
ONE wrought iron poker
ONE wrought iron hoe
ONE wrought iron slice bar
ONE scoop shovel
ONE flue cleaner, suitable for boilers
ONE wrought iron scraper with sectional pipe handle, for cleaning smoke
breaching." This screws up my argument about the separate plumbing and arch specs.
"HANDSOMELY Bronze all direct radiators .. with one coat of best quality
gold paint..." Didn't want no cheap white paint on the new rads.
Ralph
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<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:13:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">#2 General Conditions</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"Execute all CARVING and other ornamenta=
l work delineated or hereinafter mentioned, from plaster or other approved m=
odels, made by a New York City Modeller ... LEAVE SUCH MODELS at the buildin=
g as are used there, in good condition, for comparison with the finished wor=
k, after which, they are to be at the disposition of the Architect." <STRONG=
>Nowadays we still call for (i.e, specify) mockups to be made by the Contrac=
tor, most often in my experience of new/infill brickwork, which=20=
is either supposed to be left on site to incorporated into the finish wall s=
o that we can go whining to the contractor about how his actual work is nowh=
ere near as nice as the mockup he made. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"CONVENIENCES: The GENERAL CONTRACTOR wi=
ll arrange with the PLUMBER to provide conveniences for the use of the workm=
en employed on the building; supply same with properly located and well vent=
ilated enclosures; remove their contents; maintain them cleanly during the p=
rogress of the work and entirely remove them on its completion. Thoroughly d=
isinfect the SITE and supply fresh earth where necessary." <STRONG>Nowadays=20=
we have the workers use a particular toilet/lavatory, and the contractor has=
to keep it clean during the course of the work and leave it clean and repai=
r any damage caused by his forces when the job is done.</STRONG><BR></F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR>#8 Stonework</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"SETTING DRAWINGS: Furnish t=
o the Architect for his approval, three complete sets of DRAWINGS of every c=
ourse of stonework, showing size, shape and jointing of every piece of stone=
including location of ANCHORS, CLAMPS and DOWELS ..." (Note, 20=
04: it is hard to believe that the typical speculative building in New York=20=
City of this general type would ever have had such intricate drawings prepar=
ed.) <STRONG>In my experience, which doesn't include speculative build=
ings, the stonework shop and setting drawings have to be prepared and submit=
ted to make sure that the stone will A) be cut right at the quarry/shop, and=
B) be set properly in the field. I suppose if you were cladding a bui=
lding with stone tile you might get away without doing shop drawings (becaus=
e the tile would all be field cut anyway), but there should be setting drawi=
ngs showing oddball stone details over which the Architect (or housewi=
fe) will throw a hissy fit if they're not done right, and typical and specia=
l anchorage details.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"BEDS & JOINTS: Allow for 1/4" joint=
and 3/8" bed in GRANITE work and 1/4" joint and bed in LIMESTONE and 1/8" j=
oint and 3/16" bed in MARBLE work. Execute beds and joints windless."&=
nbsp; (Query, 2004: Why the variation in bedding widths. What is "wind=
less"?) <STRONG>Can't answer EITHER of these questions., but my guess is "wi=
ndless" means air tight, but I don't know how anybody would test for it, or=20=
why anybody would care. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">[set all stones] "... in a swimming bed=20=
for the mortar specified..." (Query, 2004: "swimming bed"?) <STRONG>Not know=
.Ask Ken.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"ANCHOR each stone ...with one galvanize=
d wrought iron anchor 1/4" x 1" 8" long..." (Query, 2004: From current=
forensic investigations, is it clear that such anchors were routinely galva=
nized? Or is this "a grade up" from standard? Were other materia=
ls reasonably available at the time which might have lasted longer?) <=
STRONG>Some were and some weren't. If the anchors got wet, they would'=
ve rusted more slowly if they were galvanized, and therefore would have take=
n longer to spall, crack or otherwise damage the stone. Goo=
d jobs back then would've used bronze anchors (I should think), and only a m=
oron today sets stone or TC with anything other than stainless steel anchors=
. Brick is a little more forgiving, but given a choice, I'd take stain=
less.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"STONE QUARRY: ... the Architect reserve=
s the privilege of examining the quarries...." (Note, 2004: this passa=
ge, from an early draft of the specifications, was deleted from the final ve=
rsion.) <STRONG>We (William J [no period, as he has no middle name, on=
ly a middle initial] Conklin and I) went down to look at the Georgia Marble=20=
quarries when we couldn't understand why the samples we were being sent of C=
herokee White Marble didn't match the original sample (about 4" square of sn=
ow white marble with large crystalline structure) that the Brooklyn Boro Hal=
l stone specifications were based on. Turned out that there WAS no sno=
w white slab any larger than 4" in any direction, and ALL of the marble look=
ed like someone had thrown a bottle of blue ink at it, but we didn't know th=
at until we went down to the quarry and saw it for ourselves, and by then it=
was WAY too late to change the spec.</STRONG><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR>#9 Ornamental Terra Cotta</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"BURN hard and make to the exact profile=
, and ornamental detail and of the exact COLORS to be approved by the Archit=
ect...." <STRONG>The alternative is to let the contractor/TC fabricato=
r make any damn thing in whatever cheap-ass sloppy way he wants.</STRONG></F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"MODELS: Before commencing ... have full=
size plaster models made from the Architect's designs...." (Note, 200=
4: this passage indicates not only that the contractor had to follow individ=
ual drawings for each detail, but that the architect actually made such draw=
ings.") <STRONG>Ya gotta make the models before you can make the molds=
, and once the models are approved, they can start the molds and then they f=
abricate the terra cotta.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"PROVIDE ALL COLUMNS with entasis and di=
minution; and PILASTERS without entasis or diminution...." <STRONG>Don=
't know why the distinction, except that maybe they were saving a few bucks=20=
on the pilasters.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"SET in colored mortar to exactly match=20=
shade of TERRA COTTA...." <STRONG>If ya want it to match, you gotta tell 'em=
.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3D"Times N=
ew Roman">
<DIV><BR>#16 Cement, Marble and Tile</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>[Tile floors] "...apply a preparation of bees wax and paraphine and rub=
in with woolen cloth..." (Query, 2004: what's this for - stain resist=
ance?) <STRONG>Probably protection, and to give it a nice gloss for a=20=
few days.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of approximately 12"=
x 12", or so such multiples as will work out in the area of the room." =
; (Note, 2004: this passage indicates that the architect was not so picky ab=
out the marble floor.) <STRONG>My guess is that they were trying=
to stick the contractor with making up the floor tiles to some weird-ass si=
ze that the architect was too lazy to and really couldn't calculate, an=
d if the tiles had to be 12 3/8" x 12 3/8" to get the right pattern without=20=
a billion little shitty filler pieces, then that's what the contractor had t=
o do. But this was probably accommodated by widening whatever border t=
here was around the checkerboard floor pattern.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HIGHLY POLISH all exposed surfaces except floor tile, and treads...."=20=
<STRONG>Don't want 'em falling on their ass.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"RUN POLISHED WHITE ITALIAN MARBLE BASE 6" high around all walls where=20=
tile floors are specified excepting Bath rooms...." (Note, 2004: this=20=
seems to include only kitchens and pantry areas.) <STRONG>For some rea=
son they seem to have wanted tile base in the bathrooms and marble elsewhere=
. Dunno why.</STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>#17 Joinery and Hardware</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>[Relating to raw woodwork, once in place]: "... scrape and sandpaper aw=
ay all SPOTS, finger marks, lime, ACID, TOBACCO, oil and other STAINS..."&nb=
sp; (Note, 2004: this suggests the use of chewing tobacco by the work crew.)=
<STRONG>Well, no spit, Sherlock.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without ENTASIS..." <S=
TRONG>So what???</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"BEAM THE CEILING in Dining rooms as shown, of White quartered oak or C=
hestnut as stipulated...." (Note, 2004: the typical apartment ho=
use of this period has common wood <STRONG>probably poplar, which takes dark=
stain well and is cheap </STRONG>beams, stained and filled to imitate the m=
ore expensive woods of the panelling." <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>#20 Heating</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Install a complete plant to heat the entire building to a temperature=20=
of 70 degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is zero." (Note,=
2004: the lack of reference in this section to architect's drawings or spec=
ifications indicates that the placement of radiators and piping was left up=20=
to the heating contractor.) <STRONG>A smart spec calls for this=20=
sort of performance. One would think there would've been SOME sort of=20=
requirements given for how to run piping...and maybe all you got was the arc=
hitectural spec, and for some reason not the plumbing spec.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"FIRING TOOLS: Furnish the following firing tools for each boiler:</DIV=
>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ONE wrought iron poker<BR>ONE wrought iron hoe<BR>ONE wrought iron slic=
e bar<BR>ONE scoop shovel<BR>ONE flue cleaner, suitable for boilers<BR>ONE w=
rought iron scraper with sectional pipe handle, for cleaning smoke breaching=
." <STRONG>This screws up my argument about the separate plumbing and arch s=
pecs.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HANDSOMELY Bronze all direct radiators .. with one coat of best=20=
quality gold paint..." <STRONG>Didn't want no cheap white paint on the=
new rads.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082498627--
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:17:15 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
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In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:41:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I read this to be as picky as any of the other.
How does this square with the absence of a requirement for extensive
drawings, which were required for granite, limestone, terra cotta, etc.?
christopher
You need the drawings for the ornamental stone, but floor layout is pretty
simple as long as you've got a repetitive pattern going in the field, and can
fudge oddball conditions with the border.
Ralph
-------------------------------1082499435
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<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:41:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I read this to be as picky as any of the other=
.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">How does this square with the absence of=
a requirement for extensive drawings, which were required for granite,=
limestone, terra cotta, etc.? christopher</FONT></D=
IV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>You need the drawings for the ornamental=20=
stone, but floor layout is pretty simple as long as you've got a repetitive=20=
pattern going in the field, and can fudge oddball conditions with the border=
.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082499435--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:23 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: creighton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house
in New York C...
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checkout page 26 of New York Public Library - Henery Reed for mockup in =
plaster ctb
----- Original Message -----=20
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [BP] Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment =
house in New York C...
In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:13:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
#2 General Conditions
"Execute all CARVING and other ornamental work delineated or =
hereinafter mentioned, from plaster or other approved models, made by a =
New York City Modeller ... LEAVE SUCH MODELS at the building as are used =
there, in good condition, for comparison with the finished work, after =
which, they are to be at the disposition of the Architect." Nowadays we =
still call for (i.e, specify) mockups to be made by the Contractor, most =
often in my experience of new/infill brickwork, which is either =
supposed to be left on site to incorporated into the finish wall so that =
we can go whining to the contractor about how his actual work is nowhere =
near as nice as the mockup he made. =20
"CONVENIENCES: The GENERAL CONTRACTOR will arrange with the PLUMBER =
to provide conveniences for the use of the workmen employed on the =
building; supply same with properly located and well ventilated =
enclosures; remove their contents; maintain them cleanly during the =
progress of the work and entirely remove them on its completion. =
Thoroughly disinfect the SITE and supply fresh earth where necessary." =
Nowadays we have the workers use a particular toilet/lavatory, and the =
contractor has to keep it clean during the course of the work and leave =
it clean and repair any damage caused by his forces when the job is =
done.
#8 Stonework
"SETTING DRAWINGS: Furnish to the Architect for his approval, =
three complete sets of DRAWINGS of every course of stonework, showing =
size, shape and jointing of every piece of stone including location of =
ANCHORS, CLAMPS and DOWELS ..." (Note, 2004: it is hard to believe =
that the typical speculative building in New York City of this general =
type would ever have had such intricate drawings prepared.) In my =
experience, which doesn't include speculative buildings, the stonework =
shop and setting drawings have to be prepared and submitted to make sure =
that the stone will A) be cut right at the quarry/shop, and B) be set =
properly in the field. I suppose if you were cladding a building with =
stone tile you might get away without doing shop drawings (because the =
tile would all be field cut anyway), but there should be setting =
drawings showing oddball stone details over which the Architect (or =
housewife) will throw a hissy fit if they're not done right, and typical =
and special anchorage details.
"BEDS & JOINTS: Allow for 1/4" joint and 3/8" bed in GRANITE work =
and 1/4" joint and bed in LIMESTONE and 1/8" joint and 3/16" bed in =
MARBLE work. Execute beds and joints windless." (Query, 2004: Why the =
variation in bedding widths. What is "windless"?) Can't answer EITHER =
of these questions., but my guess is "windless" means air tight, but I =
don't know how anybody would test for it, or why anybody would care.=20
[set all stones] "... in a swimming bed for the mortar specified..." =
(Query, 2004: "swimming bed"?) Not know.Ask Ken.
"ANCHOR each stone ...with one galvanized wrought iron anchor 1/4" x =
1" 8" long..." (Query, 2004: From current forensic investigations, is =
it clear that such anchors were routinely galvanized? Or is this "a =
grade up" from standard? Were other materials reasonably available at =
the time which might have lasted longer?) Some were and some weren't. =
If the anchors got wet, they would've rusted more slowly if they were =
galvanized, and therefore would have taken longer to spall, crack or =
otherwise damage the stone. Good jobs back then would've used bronze =
anchors (I should think), and only a moron today sets stone or TC with =
anything other than stainless steel anchors. Brick is a little more =
forgiving, but given a choice, I'd take stainless.
"STONE QUARRY: ... the Architect reserves the privilege of examining =
the quarries...." (Note, 2004: this passage, from an early draft of the =
specifications, was deleted from the final version.) We (William J [no =
period, as he has no middle name, only a middle initial] Conklin and I) =
went down to look at the Georgia Marble quarries when we couldn't =
understand why the samples we were being sent of Cherokee White Marble =
didn't match the original sample (about 4" square of snow white marble =
with large crystalline structure) that the Brooklyn Boro Hall stone =
specifications were based on. Turned out that there WAS no snow white =
slab any larger than 4" in any direction, and ALL of the marble looked =
like someone had thrown a bottle of blue ink at it, but we didn't know =
that until we went down to the quarry and saw it for ourselves, and by =
then it was WAY too late to change the spec.
#9 Ornamental Terra Cotta
"BURN hard and make to the exact profile, and ornamental detail and =
of the exact COLORS to be approved by the Architect...." The =
alternative is to let the contractor/TC fabricator make any damn thing =
in whatever cheap-ass sloppy way he wants.
"MODELS: Before commencing ... have full size plaster models made =
from the Architect's designs...." (Note, 2004: this passage indicates =
not only that the contractor had to follow individual drawings for each =
detail, but that the architect actually made such drawings.") Ya gotta =
make the models before you can make the molds, and once the models are =
approved, they can start the molds and then they fabricate the terra =
cotta.
"PROVIDE ALL COLUMNS with entasis and diminution; and PILASTERS =
without entasis or diminution...." Don't know why the distinction, =
except that maybe they were saving a few bucks on the pilasters.
"SET in colored mortar to exactly match shade of TERRA COTTA...." If =
ya want it to match, you gotta tell 'em.
#16 Cement, Marble and Tile
[Tile floors] "...apply a preparation of bees wax and paraphine and =
rub in with woolen cloth..." (Query, 2004: what's this for - stain =
resistance?) Probably protection, and to give it a nice gloss for a few =
days.
"Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of approximately =
12" x 12", or so such multiples as will work out in the area of the =
room." (Note, 2004: this passage indicates that the architect was not =
so picky about the marble floor.) My guess is that they were trying to =
stick the contractor with making up the floor tiles to some weird-ass =
size that the architect was too lazy to and really couldn't calculate, =
and if the tiles had to be 12 3/8" x 12 3/8" to get the right pattern =
without a billion little shitty filler pieces, then that's what the =
contractor had to do. But this was probably accommodated by widening =
whatever border there was around the checkerboard floor pattern.
"HIGHLY POLISH all exposed surfaces except floor tile, and =
treads...." Don't want 'em falling on their ass.
"RUN POLISHED WHITE ITALIAN MARBLE BASE 6" high around all walls =
where tile floors are specified excepting Bath rooms...." (Note, 2004: =
this seems to include only kitchens and pantry areas.) For some reason =
they seem to have wanted tile base in the bathrooms and marble =
elsewhere. Dunno why.
#17 Joinery and Hardware
[Relating to raw woodwork, once in place]: "... scrape and sandpaper =
away all SPOTS, finger marks, lime, ACID, TOBACCO, oil and other =
STAINS..." (Note, 2004: this suggests the use of chewing tobacco by the =
work crew.) Well, no spit, Sherlock.
"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without ENTASIS..." =
So what???
"BEAM THE CEILING in Dining rooms as shown, of White quartered oak =
or Chestnut as stipulated...." (Note, 2004: the typical apartment =
house of this period has common wood probably poplar, which takes dark =
stain well and is cheap beams, stained and filled to imitate the more =
expensive woods of the panelling." =20
#20 Heating
"Install a complete plant to heat the entire building to a =
temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is =
zero." (Note, 2004: the lack of reference in this section to =
architect's drawings or specifications indicates that the placement of =
radiators and piping was left up to the heating contractor.) A smart =
spec calls for this sort of performance. One would think there =
would've been SOME sort of requirements given for how to run =
piping...and maybe all you got was the architectural spec, and for some =
reason not the plumbing spec.
"FIRING TOOLS: Furnish the following firing tools for each boiler:
ONE wrought iron poker
ONE wrought iron hoe
ONE wrought iron slice bar
ONE scoop shovel
ONE flue cleaner, suitable for boilers
ONE wrought iron scraper with sectional pipe handle, for cleaning =
smoke breaching." This screws up my argument about the separate plumbing =
and arch specs.
"HANDSOMELY Bronze all direct radiators .. with one coat of best =
quality gold paint..." Didn't want no cheap white paint on the new =
rads.
Ralph
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<DIV>checkout page 26 of New York Public Library - Henery Reed for =
mockup in=20
plaster ctb</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
[log in to unmask]
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINH=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 20, 2004 =
6:03=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP] Construction=20
specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New York C...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:13:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">#2 General =
Conditions</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"Execute all CARVING and other =
ornamental=20
work delineated or hereinafter mentioned, from plaster or other =
approved=20
models, made by a New York City Modeller ... LEAVE SUCH MODELS at =
the=20
building as are used there, in good condition, for comparison with =
the=20
finished work, after which, they are to be at the disposition of the =
Architect." <STRONG>Nowadays we still call for (i.e, specify) =
mockups to be=20
made by the Contractor, most often in my experience of =
new/infill=20
brickwork, which is either supposed to be left on site to =
incorporated=20
into the finish wall so that we can go whining to the contractor =
about how=20
his actual work is nowhere near as nice as the mockup he made. =
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"CONVENIENCES: The GENERAL =
CONTRACTOR will=20
arrange with the PLUMBER to provide conveniences for the use of the =
workmen=20
employed on the building; supply same with properly located and well =
ventilated enclosures; remove their contents; maintain them cleanly =
during=20
the progress of the work and entirely remove them on its completion. =
Thoroughly disinfect the SITE and supply fresh earth where =
necessary."=20
<STRONG>Nowadays we have the workers use a particular =
toilet/lavatory, and=20
the contractor has to keep it clean during the course of the work =
and leave=20
it clean and repair any damage caused by his forces when the =
job is=20
done.</STRONG><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR>#8 Stonework</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"SETTING DRAWINGS: =
Furnish to=20
the Architect for his approval, three complete sets of DRAWINGS of =
every=20
course of stonework, showing size, shape and jointing of every piece =
of=20
stone including location of ANCHORS, CLAMPS and DOWELS =
..." =20
(Note, 2004: it is hard to believe that the typical speculative =
building in=20
New York City of this general type would ever have had such =
intricate=20
drawings prepared.) <STRONG>In my experience, which doesn't =
include=20
speculative buildings, the stonework shop and setting drawings have =
to be=20
prepared and submitted to make sure that the stone will A) be cut =
right at=20
the quarry/shop, and B) be set properly in the field. I =
suppose if you=20
were cladding a building with stone tile you might get away without =
doing=20
shop drawings (because the tile would all be field cut anyway), but =
there=20
should be setting drawings showing oddball stone details over which =
the=20
Architect (or housewife) will throw a hissy fit if they're not =
done=20
right, and typical and special anchorage =
details.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"BEDS & JOINTS: Allow for =
1/4" joint=20
and 3/8" bed in GRANITE work and 1/4" joint and bed in LIMESTONE and =
1/8"=20
joint and 3/16" bed in MARBLE work. Execute beds and joints=20
windless." (Query, 2004: Why the variation in bedding =
widths. =20
What is "windless"?) <STRONG>Can't answer EITHER of these =
questions., but my=20
guess is "windless" means air tight, but I don't know how anybody =
would test=20
for it, or why anybody would care. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">[set all stones] "... in a =
swimming bed=20
for the mortar specified..." (Query, 2004: "swimming bed"?) =
<STRONG>Not=20
know.Ask Ken.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"ANCHOR each stone ...with one =
galvanized=20
wrought iron anchor 1/4" x 1" 8" long..." (Query, 2004: From =
current=20
forensic investigations, is it clear that such anchors were =
routinely=20
galvanized? Or is this "a grade up" from standard? Were =
other=20
materials reasonably available at the time which might have lasted=20
longer?) <STRONG>Some were and some weren't. If the =
anchors got=20
wet, they would've rusted more slowly if they were galvanized, and =
therefore=20
would have taken longer to spall, crack or otherwise damage the =
stone. Good jobs back then would've used bronze anchors =
(I=20
should think), and only a moron today sets stone or TC with anything =
other=20
than stainless steel anchors. Brick is a little more =
forgiving, but=20
given a choice, I'd take =
stainless.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"STONE QUARRY: ... the Architect =
reserves=20
the privilege of examining the quarries...." (Note, 2004: this =
passage, from an early draft of the specifications, was deleted from =
the=20
final version.) <STRONG>We (William J [no period, as he has no =
middle=20
name, only a middle initial] Conklin and I) went down to look at the =
Georgia=20
Marble quarries when we couldn't understand why the samples we were =
being=20
sent of Cherokee White Marble didn't match the original sample =
(about 4"=20
square of snow white marble with large crystalline structure) that =
the=20
Brooklyn Boro Hall stone specifications were based on. Turned =
out that=20
there WAS no snow white slab any larger than 4" in any direction, =
and ALL of=20
the marble looked like someone had thrown a bottle of blue ink at =
it, but we=20
didn't know that until we went down to the quarry and saw it for =
ourselves,=20
and by then it was WAY too late to change the=20
spec.</STRONG><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR>#9 Ornamental Terra =
Cotta</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"BURN hard and make to the exact =
profile,=20
and ornamental detail and of the exact COLORS to be approved by the=20
Architect...." <STRONG>The alternative is to let the =
contractor/TC=20
fabricator make any damn thing in whatever cheap-ass sloppy way he=20
wants.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"MODELS: Before commencing ... =
have full=20
size plaster models made from the Architect's designs...." =
(Note,=20
2004: this passage indicates not only that the contractor had to =
follow=20
individual drawings for each detail, but that the architect actually =
made=20
such drawings.") <STRONG>Ya gotta make the models before you =
can make=20
the molds, and once the models are approved, they can start the =
molds and=20
then they fabricate the terra cotta.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"PROVIDE ALL COLUMNS with =
entasis and=20
diminution; and PILASTERS without entasis or diminution...." =20
<STRONG>Don't know why the distinction, except that maybe they were =
saving a=20
few bucks on the pilasters.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"SET in colored mortar to =
exactly match=20
shade of TERRA COTTA...." <STRONG>If ya want it to match, you gotta =
tell=20
'em.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">
<DIV><BR>#16 Cement, Marble and Tile</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>[Tile floors] "...apply a preparation of bees wax and paraphine =
and rub=20
in with woolen cloth..." (Query, 2004: what's this for - stain =
resistance?) <STRONG>Probably protection, and to give it a =
nice gloss=20
for a few days.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Provide entrance hall with Tennessee Marble floor of =
approximately 12"=20
x 12", or so such multiples as will work out in the area of the =
room." =20
(Note, 2004: this passage indicates that the architect was not so =
picky=20
about the marble floor.) <STRONG>My guess is that they =
were=20
trying to stick the contractor with making up the floor tiles to =
some=20
weird-ass size that the architect was too lazy to and really=20
couldn't calculate, and if the tiles had to be 12 3/8" x 12 =
3/8" to get=20
the right pattern without a billion little shitty filler pieces, =
then that's=20
what the contractor had to do. But this was probably =
accommodated by=20
widening whatever border there was around the checkerboard floor=20
pattern.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HIGHLY POLISH all exposed surfaces except floor tile, and =
treads...."=20
<STRONG>Don't want 'em falling on their ass.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"RUN POLISHED WHITE ITALIAN MARBLE BASE 6" high around all =
walls where=20
tile floors are specified excepting Bath rooms...." (Note, =
2004: this=20
seems to include only kitchens and pantry areas.) <STRONG>For =
some=20
reason they seem to have wanted tile base in the bathrooms and =
marble=20
elsewhere. Dunno why.</STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>#17 Joinery and Hardware</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>[Relating to raw woodwork, once in place]: "... scrape and =
sandpaper=20
away all SPOTS, finger marks, lime, ACID, TOBACCO, oil and other=20
STAINS..." (Note, 2004: this suggests the use of chewing =
tobacco by=20
the work crew.) <STRONG>Well, no spit, =
Sherlock.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without =
ENTASIS..."=20
<STRONG>So what???</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"BEAM THE CEILING in Dining rooms as shown, of White quartered =
oak or=20
Chestnut as stipulated...." (Note, 2004: the typical =
apartment=20
house of this period has common wood <STRONG>probably poplar, which =
takes=20
dark stain well and is cheap </STRONG>beams, stained and filled to =
imitate=20
the more expensive woods of the panelling." <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>#20 Heating</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Install a complete plant to heat the entire building to a =
temperature=20
of 70 degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is =
zero." (Note,=20
2004: the lack of reference in this section to architect's drawings =
or=20
specifications indicates that the placement of radiators and piping =
was left=20
up to the heating contractor.) <STRONG>A smart spec =
calls for=20
this sort of performance. One would think there would've been =
SOME=20
sort of requirements given for how to run piping...and maybe all you =
got was=20
the architectural spec, and for some reason not the plumbing=20
spec.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"FIRING TOOLS: Furnish the following firing tools for each=20
boiler:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ONE wrought iron poker<BR>ONE wrought iron hoe<BR>ONE wrought =
iron=20
slice bar<BR>ONE scoop shovel<BR>ONE flue cleaner, suitable for=20
boilers<BR>ONE wrought iron scraper with sectional pipe handle, for =
cleaning=20
smoke breaching." <STRONG>This screws up my argument about the =
separate=20
plumbing and arch specs.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HANDSOMELY Bronze all direct radiators .. with one coat =
of best=20
quality gold paint..." <STRONG>Didn't want no cheap white =
paint on the=20
new rads.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0101_01C4271D.B63A5EB0--
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:25:57 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: love/hate relationship w/ NYC
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You should come up here where all you have to worry about is running into
moose in the night, like I almost did last night. He was HUGE and standing
right in the other lane, fortunately, on US 5 right at the
Brattleboro/Dummerston line--about a mile from home. Haven't seen him
since though I have looked for him. Ruth
At 2:19 PM -0400 4/20/04, [log in to unmask] wrote:
how good it felt to be on the train yesterday, anniversary of OK City
bombing and Waco- and Columbine
and all of a sudden the LIRR is coming over th PA w/ vague announcements
about delays due to
"police activity"- and 20 minute delays when by watch we were already 30
minutes late.....
But then today I ended up in the Lobby of 200 Madison- 35th to 36th, a spot
I strongly suggest anyone in the neighborhood check out...
Kind of a "DaVinci Code" Arabesque Riot, Zodiac signs, 5 & 6 pointed stars,
A compass Rose in the floor..
--
J
J.A. Drew Diaz
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:57:54 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: creighton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Fiddling with Newel Post while the Rose burns. On March 12 the Rose Inn in
Lansing NY burned. One of it's main features was the stair. I always
harbored the hope that Kens grandpa Rose had built this beautiful circular
stair. From Jack Jensen of The Ithaca Journal "The legend is well known
around here. The rose Inn began it's life as an early Italianate home,
designed for Abram Osmun, with a beautiful spiral staircase as it's
epicenter. But no local builder would tackle the stairs. So the Osmuns,
despite there wealth,continued to use the back stairs, until one day in
1922, when William Houser stepped into history carrying a bindle and a
toolbox on his back.
He agreed to build the staircase in exchange for room and board at the
magnificent home. It took him two years . Then he simply stepped back out of
history."
This stair was a rock, a snake, DNA. Mah Tov
"As a builder you try your whole life to create just one perfect thing.
Nothing ever comes out just right- our lives, our projects, our
relationships' our kids or our legacies. Always some misstep some
regret"again Jensen.
Dirt , to wood to ashes
My friend and mentor Tyke Kohm died April 10 I'm sure some of you knew
him.
"Tike Kohm passed away the other day. He never owned a boat. He didn't
kill anyone. He kept a clean hearth. You all know the rest. ------ He taught
his son how to love baseball, he taught his daughter how to love life and
self. No charitable contributions; do something nice for yourself. Peace and
Amen "
by Tike awhile before he died.
Tike was a wonderful carpenter in the real sense of wonderful. Sometimes
you just wondered what he was doing, like the 12x12- 2 story addition to his
airstream trailer. In my house are 2 14' stainglass windows Tike presented
us with on our wedding day.
As for that stairway- go ahead take it apart. Just figure out the order
of assembly and reverse. Label everything, document everything, if you get
in trouble call Bill Houser or Tike Kohm.
PS my daughter 11 says Carpe Diem = sees the day
see you later ctb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Orgrease" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [BP] Fiddling with Newel Post
> John Callan wrote:
>
> > Ken,
> >
> > Given that this is a significant staircase in a significant building,
> > what kind of experience and qualifications would be needed for the
> > person supervising this work? How many helpers and what are their
> > qualifications? What are the risks that historic material will be
> > damaged beyond repair?
> >
> > Is this something that a typical (if there is such a thing) historic
> > site maintenance crew can handle if only the curators trusted the
> > skills of the reluctantly verbal members of our community?
> >
> > -jc
>
> Put it this way John... in both of the examples that I have been working
> on in neither case would I give over the task to another mechanic than
> myself. Let alone supervision while standing nearby watching, or far
> away thinking. I would not want to stand there and supervise anyone but
> the best, and I only know 1/2 of a person for that (and I think they
> should be proud). In each case there are reasons for intimacy between
> the supervision and execution within the confines of one brain and one
> body that preclude division of labor. So, I guess the qualifications
> start with needing a master mechanic with proven experience and an
> ability to see 'outside' of the box to understand the nontangibles of
> the project. As to # of helpers, seems to me as few as possible and only
> enough that the master mechanic can keep control of the situation. No
> naked dumb & bumbler allowed.
>
> What you need to do is pick the right person to do the job, and so the
> qualifications should I would think focus on just how to qualify the
> master mechanic desired... and an oral and hands-on examination should
> be considered on-site... interview whomever at the railing and ask them
> what they think about it and how they would do it... go watch them do
> work elsewhere and see how they flow... which brings up something I have
> been contemplating which is the degree to which a mechanic is so tuned
> into their work, the objects, and the materials that they are working
> with that they talk dirty to them while working as in, "Baby, please
> don't f'n do that! Here, here you go, there, yeah, that is where I want
> you. Stay there now. Don't move. Yeah, that is nice." It is something of
> a wake up call when the mechanic realizes the very nice middle-class
> suburbanite docents are standing behind them to watch and listen the
> whole time. We are talking engagement in the task and focus.
>
> Have it in the specs that if you, or whomever, is not satisfied with the
> interview scenario then somebody has to go back to scratch. You may try
> qualification of 30 years experience rather than the paper-wash of 5
> years? I don't know for sure. If you end up with an idiot you will know
> it soon enough, if you end up with someone that knows what they are
> doing you might not notice. Then, again, it depends on if you stand
> around eves dropping.
>
> In the case of the stone rail & newel it would take longer to explain
> what needed to be done to lift it, which was 90% of the job, than it
> took to actually do it. The work after that was easy enough but it could
> still be messed up by a mechanic that did not take care, understand what
> was going on, or why, and had no patience or experience. Too damned much
> time is spent explaining WHY something has to be done in a particular
> way and I'll be honest in saying that the minute I have to explain my
> explanation then I might as well do it myself. The risk of damage to
> historic fabric is too high for the communications process to interfere
> with it. I say this considering that I have been involved in some fairly
> complex management situations on projects.
>
> In the case of the wooden stair it was not so much a problem of
> disassembly as much as making sure the parts needed to be salvaged for
> reconstruction were salvaged... meaning that the vital information was
> not lost in the process. Photographs were taken, the process went slowly
> step by step and the exploration of the structure occured concurrent
> with the disassembly. When you begin adding on layers of supervision the
> complications increase exponentially, not linear, and in a hands-off
> approach the more details that are figured out in the beginning the less
> opportunity for error in the end. But... the further intelligence is
> stepped away from the hands-on aspect of the process the greater the
> likelihood of damage to historic fabric. You need to figure out where on
> the sliding scales you want the project to end up and what controls
> there will be to monitor quality control and stop the process in time if
> it is going in a bad direction. Me, right now, I am very much into
> wanting direct and immediate control of the situation... if the job
> allows stepping back a few notches no problem.
>
> Every railing and newel combination is going to be a different situation
> and require a different solution.
>
> In answer to your last question... no. The reluctantly verbal members of
> our community need to open their mouths and talk. If you cannot find a
> way to get them to pre-verbalize their solutions, if not even to the
> extent of getting them to wave their arms around to mimic good physical
> form in work practice... then good luck. They should at least be able to
> do this communication with you, or with assistance from a professional
> supervisor and experienced coach (hint) to work with and evaluate the
> existing work-skill resources. I don't know what typical is.
>
> Sounds to me like you have a cost-benefit-risk analysis underway.
>
> ][<
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:01:19 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My cheap ass, falling apart, held together with duct tape dictionary
doesn't have ENTASIS in it. What is this? Ruth
At 6:03 PM -0400 4/20/04, [log in to unmask] wrote:
In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:13:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
"PROVIDE all COLUMNS with ENTASIS, and PILASTERS without ENTASIS..." So what???
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
--
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:11:42 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="-----------------------------1082585502"
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In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:06:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
My cheap ass, falling apart, held together with duct tape dictionary
doesn't have ENTASIS in it. What is this? Ruth
[from an article about another building, a bank at 205 East 57th:] "Although
it is hard to tell now, the exterior columns were executed with a slight
bulge in the middle - the architectural term is entasis - to counteract the
illusion of an inward curve caused when the column sides are perfectly straight. The
columns of the Parthenon are the best known example of this device."
Of course, the open question is: If entasis was meant to counteract an
illusion - presumably invisibly - why can you see it?
Christopher
-------------------------------1082585502
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:06:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrgjb@SO=
VER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>My cheap ass, falling apart, held together wit=
h duct tape dictionary<BR>doesn't have ENTASIS in it. What is this?&nb=
sp; Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">[from an article about another building,=
a bank at 205 East 57th:] "Although it is hard to tell now, the exter=
ior columns were executed with a slight bulge in the middle - the architectu=
ral term is entasis - to counteract the illusion of an inward curve caused w=
hen the column sides are perfectly straight. The columns of the Parthenon ar=
e the best known example of this device." <BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Of course, the open question is: I=
f entasis was meant to counteract an illusion - presumably invisibly - why c=
an you see it? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1082585502--
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:58:02 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:12:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Of course, the open question is: If entasis was meant to counteract an
illusion - presumably invisibly - why can you see it?
The fact that it's an illusion doesn't mean you CAN"T see it--it means you
CAN see it even though it doesn't exist. I guess it's like being a Republican.
Ralph
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
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<DIV>In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:12:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Of course, the open question is: I=
f entasis was meant to counteract an illusion - presumably invisibly - why c=
an you see it? </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>The fact that it's an illusion doesn't me=
an you CAN"T see it--it means you CAN see it even though it doesn't exist.&n=
bsp; I guess it's like being a Republican.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:41:56 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Restoration & Renovation Trade Show
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Any Pinheads attending the Restoration and Renovation Trade Show in Boston
are welcome to stop by our booth (1301). You can see some of our toys, our
rogues gallery of specimens, and our example reports. You are also welcome to
just talk about less focused subjects. Give me a call on my cell phone
(508-259-3536) if you wish to borrow a badge.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Any Pinheads attending the Restoration and=
Renovation Trade Show in Boston are welcome to stop by our booth (1301).&nb=
sp; You can see some of our toys, our rogues gallery of specimens, and our&n=
bsp;example reports. You are also welcome to just talk about less focu=
sed subjects. Give me a call on my cell phone (508-259-3536) if you wi=
sh to borrow a badge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=
=3D"10">Steve Stokowski<BR>Stone Products Consultants<BR>Building Products M=
icroscopy<BR>10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT l=
ang=3D0 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=
=3D"10"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 siz=
e=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" PTSIZE=3D"10">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>http:/=
/members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:25:10 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fiddling with Newel Post
In-Reply-To: <011401c4274c$75208600$5bc2f63f@D9KP2H41>
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well maybe he was headed east having spent time in SantaFe
www.rvtravelog.com/lorettochapel.dir/ lorettochapel1.htm
<www.rvtravelog.com/lorettochapel.dir/%20lorettochapel1.htm>
creighton wrote:
>1922, when William Houser stepped into history carrying a bindle and a
>toolbox on his back.
> He agreed to build the staircase in exchange for room and board at the
>magnificent home. It took him two years . Then he simply stepped back out of
>history."
>This stair was a rock, a snake, DNA. Mah Tov
>"As a builder you try your whole life to create just one perfect thing.
>Nothing ever comes out just right- our lives, our projects, our
>relationships' our kids or our legacies. Always some misstep some
>regret"again Jensen.
> Dirt , to wood to ashes
>
>
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<title></title>
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<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
well maybe he was headed east having spent time in SantaFe<a
href="www.rvtravelog.com/lorettochapel.dir/%20lorettochapel1.htm"><font
size="-1"><font color="#008000"> www.rvtravelog.com/<b>loretto</b>chapel.dir/
<b>loretto</b>chapel1.htm</font></font><br>
</a><br>
creighton wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid011401c4274c$75208600$5bc2f63f@D9KP2H41">
<pre wrap="">
1922, when William Houser stepped into history carrying a bindle and a
toolbox on his back.
He agreed to build the staircase in exchange for room and board at the
magnificent home. It took him two years . Then he simply stepped back out of
history."
This stair was a rock, a snake, DNA. Mah Tov
"As a builder you try your whole life to create just one perfect thing.
Nothing ever comes out just right- our lives, our projects, our
relationships' our kids or our legacies. Always some misstep some
regret"again Jensen.
Dirt , to wood to ashes
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:56:24 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Then how come the entasis at my middle is so visible? Ruth
At 6:11 PM -0400 4/21/04, Met History wrote:
In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:06:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
My cheap ass, falling apart, held together with duct tape dictionary
doesn't have ENTASIS in it. What is this? Ruth
[from an article about another building, a bank at 205 East 57th:]
"Although it is hard to tell now, the exterior columns were executed with a
slight bulge in the middle - the architectural term is entasis - to
counteract the illusion of an inward curve caused when the column sides are
perfectly straight. The columns of the Parthenon are the best known example
of this device."
Of course, the open question is: If entasis was meant to counteract an
illusion - presumably invisibly - why can you see it?
Christopher
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Dummerston, VT
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:26:34 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house
in New York C...
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ruth Barton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:56 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [BP] Construction specifications for a 1908=20
> apartment house in New York C...
>=20
>=20
> Then how come the entasis at my middle is so visible? Ruth
1. Because you are unique and irreproducible: see number two;
2. Entasis only works with at least four identical entatic entities
closely spaced in a row when viewed from a distance;
3. There are viewing distance limitations to number two which you
exceed. I don't see any entasis at your middle. Ironically then, the
illusion succeeds.
HTH,
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/807-8480
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:29:02 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: CO exposure from motor boats in open air - note exhaust in photo
at bottom...
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Carbon Monoxide Poisonings Resulting from Open Air Exposures to Operating=20
Motorboats --- Lake Havasu City, Arizona, 2003
During February 1997--August 2002, two fatal and six nonfatal cases of carbo=
n=20
monoxide (CO) poisoning occurred in vacationers who were wading in or boatin=
g=20
near the Bridgewater Channel of Lake Havasu (Lake Havasu City [LHC], Arizona=
)=20
(1). The vacationers were near operating motorboats, primarily in the channe=
l=20
area, where large numbers of boaters congregate during holiday weekends=20
(Figure). One person had a carboxyhemoglobin (%COHb) level of 40% on autopsy=
. To=20
evaluate CO exposure among municipal employees working in the channel, CDC a=
nd=20
the Havasu Regional Medical Center Emergency Department (HRMCED) conducted a=
n=20
initial investigation during Labor Day weekend 2002 (August 31--September 1)=
.=20
CO concentrations in channel air exceeded all short-term exposure criteria*;=
=20
four of 12 patients reporting to HRMCED because of boating-related activitie=
s=20
had %COHb levels of >9%=E2=80=A0. In May 2003, LHC requested assistance from=
CDC, the=20
Mohave County Department of Public Health (MCDPH), the Arizona Department of=
=20
Health Services (ADHS), and a private consulting firm to assess CO exposures=
in=20
the channel during Memorial Day weekend 2003 (May 23--26). Follow-up=20
environmental surveys were conducted during June--September 2003. This repor=
t summarizes=20
the findings of these surveys, which documented excessive CO exposure and=20
confirmed the health risk among vacationers and employees working in the cha=
nnel=20
near crowded motorboat gatherings. Community leaders and safety officials=20
should 1) be aware that employees and vacationers in close proximity to oper=
ating=20
motorboats can be exposed to potentially lethal levels of CO, 2) evaluate=20
exposures, and 3) take steps to prevent poisonings.=20
Exposure Monitoring=20
During May 23--26, 2003, CDC and MCDPH conducted workshift CO-exposure=20
monitoring and exhaled breath CO analyses among municipal employees and admi=
nistered=20
questionnaires to determine prevalence of CO-related symptoms. Exhaled breat=
h=20
CO concentrations (measured as parts per million [ppm] by direct-reading=20
instruments) were measured in the morning and evening to determine changes d=
uring=20
the day. Concentrations were then converted to estimated %COHb by using the=20
American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) calculatio=
n=20
(2). During May 24--25, ADHS investigators measured exhaled breath CO=20
concentrations by using comparable instruments and administered brief questi=
onnaires to=20
a convenience sample of 62 vacationers in the channel. Vacationers' CO=20
concentrations were measured once and converted to an estimated %COHb by usi=
ng a=20
breath analysis conversion chart.=20
Of 40 LHC employees, 36 (90%) participated during one or more workshifts,=20
accounting for 78 monitored workshifts. Of these workshifts, 19 (25%) involv=
ed CO=20
exposures equal to or exceeding the NIOSH recommended exposure limit (REL)=
=C2=A7;=20
54 (69%) involved short-term CO exposures that exceeded the NIOSH ceiling=20
limit (Table 1). Of 63 workshifts involving nonsmoking employees, 42 (67%) h=
ad=20
estimated post-shift %COHb levels that equalled or exceeded the ACGIH biolog=
ic=20
exposure index of 3.5%=C2=B6. CO exposures decreased on the last day of the=20=
holiday=20
weekend, when many of the boaters left the channel. During the 66 workshifts=
of=20
the 3 days of heaviest boating (May 23--25), the post-shift symptoms reporte=
d=20
most frequently by employees were headache, fatigue or weakness, visual=20
disturbances, and dizziness (Table 2). The average estimated %COHb among non=
smoking=20
employees increased during the day, from 1% in the morning to 6% in the=20
afternoon. Among smokers, the average increase was from 3% to 7%. The maximu=
m=20
estimated %COHb level among employees was 13% in nonsmokers and 11% in smoke=
rs.=20
Among 46 nonsmoking vacationers, the estimated %COHb increased from a mean o=
f=20
1% in the morning to 11% in the afternoon. Among 16 smoking vacationers, the=
=20
average estimated %COHb increased from 3% in the early afternoon to 13% in t=
he=20
late afternoon. The maximum estimated %COHb level among vacationers was 23%=20
for nonsmokers and 26% for smokers**.=20
Since the initial investigation in September 2002 (Labor Day weekend), one=20
fatal and four nonfatal, hospital-treated CO poisonings involving loss of=20
consciousness have occurred among channel vacationers, with %COHb levels ran=
ging=20
from 19% to 47% (P. Mead, MCDPH, and M. Ward, D.O., HRMCED, personal=20
communications, 2003). One poisoning occurred on the back of a boat; the oth=
er four=20
(including the fatality) occurred while persons were wading near boats in th=
e=20
channel.=20
Ambient Air Monitoring=20
During June 26--September 9, 2003, meteorologic conditions and CO=20
concentrations were measured at fixed locations on the banks of the channel,=
on police=20
and fire boats operating in and near the channel, and on police four-wheel,=20
all-terrain vehicles patrolling the east and west banks of the channel.=20
Concentrations in the channel and nearby onshore were higher (maximum 8-hour=
averages of=20
20--40 ppm at a typical onshore site) on the holiday weekends, when many=20
boats were in the channel. Concentrations were highest when wind speeds were=
lower=20
(<1.5 meters per second [<3.4 miles per hour]) and temperatures were higher=20
(>90=C2=BA F [>32=C2=BA C]). Concentrations declined considerably with dista=
nce from the=20
channel (e.g., maximum 8-hour averages of <1 ppm were measured at a busy=20
intersection 350 meters from the channel). The highest CO concentrations occ=
urred=20
in the late afternoon and early evening, usually during 5--9 p.m., when wind=
=20
speeds typically decreased.=20
Reported by: P Roberts, PhD, Sonoma Technology, Inc., Petaluma, California.=20=
M=20
Ward, DO, Havasu Regional Medical Center Emergency Dept, Lake Havasu City; R=
L=20
Baron, MD, Banner Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center Emergency Dept,=20
Phoenix; W Humble, MPH, M Hadzihasanovic, MD, R Cox, Office of Environmental=
=20
Health, Arizona Dept of Health Svcs. L Tapp, MD, J McCammon, MS, R McCleery,=
MSPH,=20
Div of Surveillance, Hazard Evaluations, and Field Studies, National Institu=
te=20
for Occupational Safety and Health, CDC.=20
Editorial Note:
The surveys described in this report document excessive CO exposures in=20
employees and excessive and fatal CO exposures in vacationers amid large num=
bers of=20
boats. The surveys also document substantial CO exposures in the late=20
afternoon during crowded boating conditions, mirrored by elevations in expir=
ed CO=20
concentrations among employees and vacationers. The majority of LHC employee=
s had=20
estimated %COHb levels indicating the potential for adverse health effects.=20
Vacationers tested had higher %COHb levels than employees. These results=20
indicate that elevated %COHb levels can occur among persons in open, outdoor=
=20
settings. Previously described outdoor boat-related poisonings involved dang=
ers to=20
occupants of individual boats (e.g., houseboats and ski-boats) (4,5).=20
The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First=
,=20
evaluation of CO-related symptoms was limited by a lack of participant=20
information on dehydration, heat stress, physical and mental stress, and vac=
ationer=20
alcohol use. Many symptoms of CO overexposure (e.g., headache, fatigue, and=20
dizziness) are associated commonly with these factors. Second, estimates of=20
%COHb" ", rather than direct measurements (blood analysis), were used to=20
provide indications of %COHb levels. Finally, the convenience sampling metho=
d used=20
for vacationers did not provide data to estimate the number of vacationers w=
ith=20
increased CO levels.=20
During the 2003 Memorial Day weekend evaluations, employees with an estimate=
d=20
%COHb of >5% were advised to exchange jobs with a co-worker assigned away=20
from the channel area; those with >10% were required to remove themselves fr=
om=20
the area immediately and, if symptomatic, advised to seek medical attention.=
=20
Protective measures recommended for workers also should be recommended for=20
vacationers until measures to reduce ambient CO exposures in the channel are=
=20
implemented (6). Exhaled breath measurements should be used to screen vacati=
oners=20
located in areas with high ambient CO during days of heavy boat use in the=20
channel (particularly during calm wind conditions) (7,8).=20
Persons in communities with lakes and rivers where boats congregate in large=
=20
numbers should be aware of the dangers of open air, boat-related CO poisonin=
g=20
and the need to evaluate CO exposures during high-traffic periods. Boat=20
manufacturers should improve emission controls to reduce consumer CO exposur=
e. The=20
risk for boat-related CO poisonings should be reduced by considering measure=
s=20
such as limiting the number of boats in certain areas; enforcing a "no idle"=
=20
policy when boats are stationary; and warning vacationers of 1) the signs an=
d=20
symptoms of CO poisoning; 2) the hazards related to occupying the back of th=
e=20
boat any time the motor is running; and 3) the risk for CO poisoning in area=
s of=20
boat congestion, especially during calm weather conditions.=20
=E2=80=A0=E2=80=A0 An exhaled CO concentration (in ppm) is converted to an e=
stimated level=20
of %COHb by either a calculation or conversion chart. Estimates of %COHb wer=
e=20
derived from the ACGIH formula for employee participants and from a conversi=
on=20
chart for vacationers.=20
References
U.S. Department of Interior. Boat-related CO poisonings on U.S. waters.=20
Available at http://safetynet.smis.doi.gov/thelistbystate8.pdf.=20
American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists. Documentation of=20
Threshold Limit Values and Biological Exposure Indices, 7th ed. Cincinnati,=20
Ohio: American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, 2001.=20
CDC. Blood carbon monoxide levels in persons 3--74 years of age: United=20
States, 1976--80. Hyattsville, Maryland: U.S. Department of Health and Human=
=20
Services, Public Health Service, CDC, National Center for Health Statistics,=
Office=20
of Health Research, Statistics, and Technology, Vital and Health Statistics,=
=20
1982. (Advance data; no. 76).=20
CDC. Houseboat-associated carbon monoxide poisonings on Lake Powell---Arizon=
a=20
and Utah, 2000. MMWR 2000;49:1105--8.=20
CDC. Carbon monoxide poisoning resulting from exposure to ski-boat=20
exhaust---Georgia, June 2002. MMWR 2002;51:829--30.=20
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. Hazard Evaluation and=
=20
Technical Assistance Report. Cincinnati, Ohio: U.S. Department of Health and=
=20
Human Services, CDC, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health,=20
2004; NIOSH HETA 2002-0393-2928.=20
Stewart RD, Stewart RS, Stamm W, Seelen RP. Rapid estimation of=20
carboxyhemoglobin level in fire fighters. JAMA 1976;235:390--2.=20
McCammon JB, McKenzie LE, Heinzman M. Carbon monoxide poisoning related to=20
the indoor use of propane-fueled forklifts in Colorado workplaces. Appl Occu=
p=20
Environ Hyg 1996;11:192--8.=20
*The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) ceiling=20
limit for CO exposure is 200 parts per million (ppm), which should not be=20
exceeded at any time. The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hyg=
ienists=20
(ACGIH) excursion limit for CO is 125 ppm (or five times the threshold limit=
=20
value time-weighted average [TLV-TWA]), which should not be exceeded under a=
ny=20
circumstances. The Environmental Protection Agency National Ambient Air=20
Quality Standard for 1-hour CO exposure is 35 ppm.=20
=E2=80=A0The World Health Organization recommends that %COHb levels should n=
ot exceed=20
2.5% in general population. ACGIH recommends a worker biologic an exposure=20
index (BEI) for CO of 20 ppm in end-of-shift exhaled breath or an estimated=20
%COHb level of 3.5%.=20
=C2=A7 TWA concentration up to a 10-hour workday during a 40-hour workweek t=
o=20
which nearly all workers might be exposed repeatedly without adverse effect.=
=20
=C2=B6 ACGIH BEI generally indicates a concentration below which nearly all=20
workers should not experience adverse health effects (not intended for use a=
s a=20
measure of adverse effects or for diagnosis of occupational illness).=20
** In persons with no occupational exposure to CO, nonsmokers have an averag=
e=20
%COHb level of 0.9% (range: <0.5%--2.1%); smokers average 4.3% (range:=20
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
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<H1>Carbon Monoxide Poisonings Resulting from Open Air Exposures to Operatin=
g Motorboats --- Lake Havasu City, Arizona, 2003</FONT></H1>
<P></P>
<P>During February 1997--August 2002, two fatal and six nonfatal cases of ca=
rbon monoxide (CO) poisoning occurred in vacationers who were wading in or b=
oating near the Bridgewater Channel of Lake Havasu (Lake Havasu City [LHC],=20=
Arizona) (<I>1</I>). The vacationers were near operating motorboats, primari=
ly in the channel area, where large numbers of boaters congregate during hol=
iday weekends (<A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5315a3.=
htm#fig">Figure</A>). One person had a carboxyhemoglobin (%COHb) level of 40=
% on autopsy. To evaluate CO exposure among municipal employees working in t=
he channel, CDC and the Havasu Regional Medical Center Emergency Department=20=
(HRMCED) conducted an initial investigation during Labor Day weekend 2002 (A=
ugust 31--September 1). CO concentrations in channel air exceeded all short-=
term exposure criteria*; four of 12 patients reporting to HRMCED because of=20=
boating-related activities had %COHb levels of >9%<SUP>=E2=80=A0</SUP>. I=
n May 2003, LHC requested assistance from CDC, the Mohave County Department=20=
of Public Health (MCDPH), the Arizona Department of Health Services (ADHS),=20=
and a private consulting firm to assess CO exposures in the channel during M=
emorial Day weekend 2003 (May 23--26). Follow-up environmental surveys were=20=
conducted during June--September 2003. This report summarizes the findings o=
f these surveys, which documented excessive CO exposure and confirmed the he=
alth risk among vacationers and employees working in the channel near crowde=
d motorboat gatherings. Community leaders and safety officials should 1) be=20=
aware that employees and vacationers in close proximity to operating motorbo=
ats can be exposed to potentially lethal levels of CO, 2) evaluate exposures=
, and 3) take steps to prevent poisonings.=20
<H4><B>Exposure Monitoring </B></H4>
<P></P>
<P>During May 23--26, 2003, CDC and MCDPH conducted workshift CO-exposure mo=
nitoring and exhaled breath CO analyses among municipal employees and admini=
stered questionnaires to determine prevalence of Crboats, primarily in the c=
hannel area, where large numbers of boaters congregate during holiday weeken=
ds (<A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5315a3.htm#fig">Fi=
gure</A>). One person had a carboxyhemoglobin (%COHb) level of 40% on autops=
y. To evaluate CO exposure among municipal employees working in the channel,=
CDC and the Havasu Regional Medical Center Emergency Department (HRMCED) co=
nducted an initial investigation during Labor Day weekend 2002 (August 31--S=
eptember 1). CO concentrations in channel air exceeded all short-term exposu=
re criteria*; four of 12 patients reporting to HRMCED because of boating-rel=
ated activities had %COHb levels of >9%<SUP>=E2=80=A0</SUP>. In May 2003,=
LHC requested assistance from CDC, the Mohave County Department of Public H=
ealth (MCDPH), the Arizona Department of Health Services (ADHS), and a priva=
te consulting firm to assess CO exposures in the channel during Memorial Day=
weekend 2003 (May 23--26). Follow-up environmental surveys were conducted d=
uring June--September 2003. This report summarizes the findings of these sur=
veys, which documented excessive CO exposure and confirmed the health risk a=
mong vacationers and employees working in the channel near crowded motorboat=
gatherings. Community leaders and safety officials should 1) be aware that=20=
employees and vacationers in close proximity to operating motorboats can be=20=
exposed to potentially lethal levels of CO, 2) evaluate exposures, and 3) ta=
ke steps to prevent poisonings.=20
<H4><B>Exposure Monitoring </B></H4>
<P></P>
<P>During May 23--26, 2003, CDC and MCDPH conducted workshift CO-exposure mo=
nitoring and exhaled breath CO analyses among municipal employees and admini=
stered questionnaires to determine prevalence of CO-related symptoms. Exhale=
d breath CO concentrations (measured as parts per million [ppm] by direct-re=
ading instruments) were measured in the morning and evening to determine cha=
nges during the day. Concentrations were then converted to estimated %COHb b=
y using the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH=
) calculation (<I>2</I>). During May 24--25, ADHS investigators measured exh=
aled breath CO concentrations by using comparable instruments and administer=
ed brief questionnaires to a convenience sample of 62 vacationers in the cha=
nnel. Vacationers' CO concentrations were measured once and converted to an=20=
estimated %COHb by using a breath analysis conversion chart. </P>
<P>Of 40 LHC employees, 36 (90%) participated during one or more workshifts,=
accounting for 78 monitored workshifts. Of these workshifts, 19 (25%) invol=
ved CO exposures equal to or exceeding the NIOSH recommended exposure limit=20=
(REL)<SUP>=C2=A7</SUP>; 54 (69%) involved short-term CO exposures that excee=
ded the NIOSH ceiling limit (<A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr=
html/mm5315a3.htm#tab1">Table 1</A>). Of 63 workshifts involving nonsmoking=20=
employees, 42 (67%) had estimated post-shift %COHb levels that equalled or e=
xceeded the ACGIH biologic exposure index of 3.5%<SUP>=C2=B6</SUP>. CO expos=
ures decreased on the last day of the holiday weekend, when many of the boat=
ers left the channel. During the 66 workshifts of the 3 days of heaviest boa=
ting (May 23--25), the post-shift symptoms reported most frequently by emplo=
yees were headache, fatigue or weakness, visual disturbances, and dizziness=20=
(<A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5315a3.htm#tab2">Tabl=
e 2</A>). The average estimated %COHb among nonsmoking employees increased d=
uring the day, from 1% in the morning to 6% in the afternoon. Among smokers,=
the average increase was from 3% to 7%. The maximum estimated %COHb level a=
mong employees was 13% in nonsmokers and 11% in smokers. </P>
<P>Among 46 nonsmoking vacationers, the estimated %COHb increased from a mea=
n of 1% in the morning to 11% in the afternoon. Among 16 smoking vacationers=
, the average estimated %COHb increased from 3% in the early afternoon to 13=
% in the late afternoon. The maximum estimated %COHb level among vacationers=
was 23% for nonsmokers and 26% for smokers**. </P>
<P>Since the initial investigation in September 2002 (Labor Day weekend), on=
e fatal and four nonfatal, hospital-treated CO poisonings involving loss of=20=
consciousness have occurred among channel vacationers, with %COHb levels ran=
ging from 19% to 47% (P. Mead, MCDPH, and M. Ward, D.O., HRMCED, personal co=
mmunications, 2003). One poisoning occurred on the back of a boat; the other=
four (including the fatality) occurred while persons were wading near boats=
in the channel.=20
<H4><B>Ambient Air Monitoring</B> </H4>
<P></P>
<P>During June 26--September 9, 2003, meteorologic conditions and CO concent=
rations were measured at fixed locations on the banks of the channel, on pol=
ice and fire boats operating in and near the channel, and on police four-whe=
el, all-terrain vehicles patrolling the east and west banks of the channel.=20=
Concentrations in the channel and nearby onshore were higher (maximum 8-hour=
averages of 20--40 ppm at a typical onshore site) on the holiday weekends,=20=
when many boats were in the channel. Concentrations were highest when wind s=
peeds were lower (<1.5 meters per second [<3.4 miles per hour]) and te=
mperatures were higher (>90<SUP>=C2=BA </SUP>F [>32<SUP>=C2=BA</SUP> C=
]). Concentrations declined considerably with distance from the channel (e.g=
., maximum 8-hour averages of <1 ppm were measured at a busy intersection=
350 meters from the channel). The highest CO concentrations occurred in the=
late afternoon and early evening, usually during 5--9 p.m., when wind speed=
s typically decreased. </P>
<P><B>Reported by:</B> <I>P Roberts, PhD, Sonoma Technology, Inc., Petaluma,=
California. M Ward, DO, Havasu Regional Medical Center Emergency Dept, Lake=
Havasu City; RL Baron, MD, Banner Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center Em=
ergency Dept, Phoenix; W Humble, MPH, M Hadzihasanovic, MD, R Cox, Office of=
Environmental Health, Arizona Dept of Health Svcs. L Tapp, MD, J McCammon,=20=
MS, R McCleery, MSPH, Div of Surveillance, Hazard Evaluations, and Field Stu=
dies, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, CDC.</I>=20
<H3>Editorial Note:</H3>
<P></P>
<P>The surveys described in this report document excessive CO exposures in e=
mployees and excessive and fatal CO exposures in vacationers amid large numb=
ers of boats. The surveys also document substantial CO exposures in the late=
afternoon during crowded boating conditions, mirrored by elevations in expi=
red CO concentrations among employees and vacationers. The majority of LHC e=
mployees had estimated %COHb levels indicating the potential for adverse hea=
lth effects. Vacationers tested had higher %COHb levels than employees. Thes=
e results indicate that elevated %COHb levels can occur among persons in ope=
n, outdoor settings. Previously described outdoor boat-related poisonings in=
volved dangers to occupants of individual boats (e.g., houseboats and ski-bo=
ats) (<I><A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4949a1.htm">4=
</A>,<A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5137a3.htm">5</A>=
</I>). </P>
<P>The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. Fi=
rst, evaluation of CO-related symptoms was limited by a lack of participant=20=
information on dehydration, heat stress, physical and mental stress, and vac=
ationer alcohol use. Many symptoms of CO overexposure (e.g., headache, fatig=
ue, and dizziness) are associated commonly with these factors. Second, estim=
ates of %COHb<SUP>=E2=80=A0=E2=80=A0</SUP>, rather than direct measurements=20=
(blood analysis), were used to provide indications of %COHb levels. Finally,=
the convenience sampling method used for vacationers did not provide data t=
o estimate the number of vacationers with increased CO levels. </P>
<P>During the 2003 Memorial Day weekend evaluations, employees with an estim=
ated %COHb of <U>></U>5% were advised to exchange jobs with a co-worker a=
ssigned away from the channel area; those with <U>></U>10% were required=20=
to remove themselves from the area immediately and, if symptomatic, advised=20=
to seek medical attention. Protective measures recommended for workers also=20=
should be recommended for vacationers until measures to reduce ambient CO ex=
posures in the channel are implemented (<I>6</I>). Exhaled breath measuremen=
ts should be used to screen vacationers located in areas with high ambient C=
O during days of heavy boat use in the channel (particularly during calm win=
d conditions) (<I>7,8</I>). </P>
<P>Persons in communities with lakes and rivers where boats congregate in la=
rge numbers should be aware of the dangers of open air, boat-related CO pois=
oning and the need to evaluate CO exposures during high-traffic periods. Boa=
t manufacturers should improve emission controls to reduce consumer CO expos=
ure. The risk for boat-related CO poisonings should be reduced by considerin=
g measures such as limiting the number of boats in certain areas; enforcing=20=
a "no idle" policy when boats are stationary; and warning vacationers of 1)=20=
the signs and symptoms of CO poisoning; 2) the hazards related to occupying=20=
the back of the boat any time the motor is running; and 3) the risk for CO p=
oisoning in areas of boat congestion, especially during calm weather conditi=
ons. </P>
<P><SUP>=E2=80=A0=E2=80=A0</SUP> An exhaled CO concentration (in ppm) is con=
verted to an estimated level of %COHb by either a calculation or conversion=20=
chart. Estimates of %COHb were derived from the ACGIH formula for employee p=
articipants and from a conversion chart for vacationers.=20
<H3>References</B></H3>
<P></P>
<OL>
<LI>U.S. Department of Interior. Boat-related CO poisonings on U.S. waters.=20=
Available at <A href=3D"http://safetynet.smis.doi.gov/thelistbystate8.pdf">h=
ttp://safetynet.smis.doi.gov/thelistbystate8.pdf</A>.=20
<LI>American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists. Documentation=
of Threshold Limit Values and Biological Exposure Indices, 7th ed. Cincinna=
ti, Ohio: American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, 2001.=20
<LI>CDC. Blood carbon monoxide levels in persons 3--74 years of age: United=20=
States, 1976--80. Hyattsville, Maryland: U.S. Department of Health and Human=
Services, Public Health Service, CDC, National Center for Health Statistics=
, Office of Health Research, Statistics, and Technology, Vital and Health St=
atistics, 1982. (Advance data; no. 76).=20
<LI><A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4949a1.htm">CDC. H=
ouseboat-associated carbon monoxide poisonings on Lake Powell---Arizona and=20=
Utah, 2000. MMWR 2000;49:1105--8. </A>
<LI><A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5137a3.htm">CDC. C=
arbon monoxide poisoning resulting from exposure to ski-boat exhaust---Georg=
ia, June 2002. MMWR 2002;51:829--30.</A>=20
<LI>National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. Hazard Evaluation=
and Technical Assistance Report. Cincinnati, Ohio: U.S. Department of Healt=
h and Human Services, CDC, National Institute for Occupational Safety and He=
alth, 2004; NIOSH HETA 2002-0393-2928.=20
<LI>Stewart RD, Stewart RS, Stamm W, Seelen RP. Rapid estimation of carboxyh=
emoglobin level in fire fighters. JAMA 1976;235:390--2.=20
<LI>McCammon JB, McKenzie LE, Heinzman M. Carbon monoxide poisoning related=20=
to the indoor use of propane-fueled forklifts in Colorado workplaces. Appl O=
ccup Environ Hyg 1996;11:192--8. </LI></OL><SMALL>
<P>*The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) ceilin=
g limit for CO exposure is 200 parts per million (ppm), which should not be=20=
exceeded at any time. The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hyg=
ienists (ACGIH) excursion limit for CO is 125 ppm (or five times the thresho=
ld limit value time-weighted average [TLV-TWA]), which should not be exceede=
d under any circumstances. The Environmental Protection Agency National Ambi=
ent Air Quality Standard for 1-hour CO exposure is 35 ppm. </P>
<P><SUP>=E2=80=A0</SUP>The World Health Organization recommends that %COHb l=
evels should not exceed 2.5% in general population. ACGIH recommends a worke=
r biologic an exposure index (BEI) for CO of 20 ppm in end-of-shift exhaled=20=
breath or an estimated %COHb level of 3.5%. </P>
<P><SUP>=C2=A7</SUP> TWA concentration up to a 10-hour workday during a 40-h=
our workweek to which nearly all workers might be exposed repeatedly without=
adverse effect. </P>
<P><SUP>=C2=B6</SUP> ACGIH BEI generally indicates a concentration below whi=
ch nearly all workers should not experience adverse health effects (not inte=
nded for use as a measure of adverse effects or for diagnosis of occupationa=
l illness). </P>
<P>** In persons with no occupational exposure to CO, nonsmokers have an ave=
rage %COHb level of 0.9% (range: <0.5%--2.1%); smokers average 4.3% (rang=
e: <1.0%--8.7%) (<I>3</I>). </P>
<P><SUP>=E2=80=A0=E2=80=A0</SUP> An exhaled CO concentration (in ppm) is con=
verted to an estimated level of %COHb by either a calculation or conversion=20=
chart. Estimates of %COHb were derived from the ACGIH formula for employee p=
articipants and from a conversion chart for vacationers. </P>
<P></P>
<P>
<H3></SMALL></H3>
<P></P><BR><B><A name=3Dtab1>Table 1</A></B><BR><BR><IMG height=3D304 alt=
=3D"Table 1" src=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m315a3t=
1.gif" width=3D688><BR><A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/m=
m5315a3.htm#top">Return to top.</A> <BR><BR><B><A name=3Dtab2>Table 2</A></B=
><BR><BR><IMG height=3D195 alt=3D"Table 2" src=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pr=
eview/mmwrhtml/figures/m315a3t2.gif" width=3D334><BR><A href=3D"http://www.c=
dc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5315a3.htm#top">Return to top.</A> <BR><BR><B=
><A name=3Dfig>Figure</A></B><BR><BR><IMG height=3D333 alt=3D"Figure 3" src=
=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m315a3f.gif" width=3D39=
0><BR><A href=3D"http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5315a3.htm#top">=
Return to top.</A> <BR> =20
<P>
<TABLE width=3D"100%" border=3D1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<P><SMALL>Use of trade names and commercial sources is for identification on=
ly and does not imply endorsement by the U.S. Department of Health and Human=
Services.=20
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"10%">
References to non-CDC sites on the Internet are provided as a service to <I>=
MMWR</I> readers and do not constitute or imply endorsement of these organiz=
ations or their programs by CDC or the U.S. Department of Health and Human S=
ervices. CDC is not responsible for the content of pages found at these site=
s. URL addresses listed in <I>MMWR</I> were current as of the date of public=
ation.</SMALL>=20
<P></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000><BLINK><BIG><STRONG>Disclaimer</STRONG></BIG></BLIN=
K></FONT> <SMALL>All <I>MMWR</I> HTML versions of articles are electr=
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d in character translation or format errors in the HTML version. Users shoul=
d not rely on this HTML document, but are referred to the electronic PDF ver=
sion and/or the original <I>MMWR</I> paper copy for the official text, figur=
es, and tables. An original paper copy of this issue can be obtained from th=
e Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office (GPO), Washin=
gton, DC 20402-9371; telephone: (202) 512-1800. Contact GPO for current pric=
es.</SMALL></P>
<H4>**Questions or messages regarding errors in formatting should be address=
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:40:10 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CO exposure from motor boats in open air - note exhaust in
photo at bottom...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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It's only appropriate as this whole community was the vision of
McCullough of McCullough Chain saws-
but enough SW trivia pursuit...
In re You -
In "The Silence of the Lambs"
doesn't Jody Foster question Anthony Hopkins about reading this periodical??
Met History wrote:
>
> Carbon Monoxide Poisonings Resulting from Open Air Exposures to
> Operating Motorboats --- Lake Havasu City, Arizona, 2003
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
> This page last reviewed 4/22/2004
>
> Centers for Disease Control and Prevention <http://www.cdc.gov/>
> Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report
>
--
J.A. Drew Diaz
EDGE Development Construction
Suite 1205
150 W 28th St
NY, NY 10001
t 212.741.7348
f 212.741.7423
c 917.971.1577
e [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
w http://edgedc.com <http://edgedc.com/>
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It's only appropriate as this whole community was the vision of
McCullough of McCullough Chain saws-<br>
but enough SW trivia pursuit...<br>
<br>
In re You - <br>
In "The Silence of the Lambs"<br>
doesn't Jody Foster question Anthony Hopkins about reading this
periodical??<br>
<br>
Met History wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="[log in to unmask]">
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<h1>Carbon Monoxide Poisonings Resulting from Open Air
Exposures to Operating Motorboats --- Lake Havasu City, Arizona, 2003</h1>
<br>
<p><small>**</small></p>
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">J.A.
Drew Diaz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">EDGE
Development Construction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Suite</span></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 1205</span></st1:address><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">150 W 28th St</span></st1:address></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">NY</span></st1:City><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">10001</st1:PostalCode></span></st1:place><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">t</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7348<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">f</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7423<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">c</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 917.971.1577<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">e</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">w</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="http://edgedc.com/">http://edgedc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Â </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Â </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Â </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Â </p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:27:47 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Construction specifications for a 1908 apartment house in New
York C...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-------------------------------1082680067
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In a message dated 4/22/2004 12:45:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Then how come the entasis at my middle is so visible? Ruth
Stand next to me. You'll feel much better.
Ralph
-------------------------------1082680067
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/22/2004 12:45:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mrgjb@S=
OVER.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Then how come the entasis at my middle is so v=
isible? Ruth</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Stand next to me. You'll feel much=20=
better.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:16:43 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mark W. James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: finaldates's AOL Address Card
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n/acard_logo.gif" alt=3D"Address Card"></td></tr><tr bgcolor=3D#A9CFEB><t=
d><h4><br>You are invited to accept finaldates's Address Card.</h4></td><=
/tr><tr bgcolor=3D#A9CFEB><td><br><a href=3D"http://publish-subscribe-npe=
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finaldates&action=3Dsub&s=3DMC0CFA5qsi2SBfw8tRUlu0Bs3lnvx%2Bs3AhUAsoBzh1%=
2FYifgcOGi5y62dWI7U0SA%3D&_AOLFORM=3Dh300.w300.p5"><img border=3D"0" src=3D=
"http://ab.webmail.aol.com/ac/dig/images/aol/us_en/acard_accept.gif" alt=3D=
"Accept This Card"></a></td></tr><tr><td>finaldates's Address Card inform=
ation is attached to this e-mail as a vCard. When you accept this Address=
Card, you will receive updated vCards from this AOL member at bullamanka=
[log in to unmask] whenever finaldates's information changes=
</td></tr></table>
<br><br><br><br><table border=3D"1">
<tr><td>First Name: Mark</td><td>Last Name: James</td></tr>
<tr><td>AOL Email: [log in to unmask]</td><td>Other Email: </td></t=
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:57 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: cast your stone upon the waters...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-------------------------------1083003596
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"Cast stone." I see a lot of it in New York. Of course, you can indeed
"cast the first stone", but even I know that you cannot "cast" a stone in the
sense of building materials - unless you are a volcano.
I imagine cast stone is like plywood, which is lots of glue. How much stone
is there in "cast stone?
Is it just my 'magination, or does cast stone soil more quickly than other
stone? If so, is it because cast stone doesn't weather away as quickly as, say,
limestone?
Does all cast stone have to be as cheesy as what we see in NYC?
Christopher
-------------------------------1083003596
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"Cast stone." I see a lot of it in=
New York. Of course, you can indeed "cast the first stone", but =
even I know that you cannot "cast" a stone in the sense of building material=
s - unless you are a volcano. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I imagine cast stone is like plywood, wh=
ich is lots of glue. How much stone is there in "cast stone? </F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Is it just my 'magination, or does cast=20=
stone soil more quickly than other stone? If so, is it because cast st=
one doesn't weather away as quickly as, say, limestone? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Does all cast stone have to be as cheesy=
as what we see in NYC?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1083003596--
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:25:14 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cast your soluble binding agent upon the waters...
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-------------------------------1083003914
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In a message dated 4/26/2004 2:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
If so, is it because cast stone doesn't weather away as quickly as, say,
limestone?
And, does anyone bother with cast marble? Granite? Gneiss? Can you produce
cast stone of any variety? c
-------------------------------1083003914
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/26/2004 2:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">If so, is it because cast stone do=
esn't weather away as quickly as, say, limestone? </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">And, does anyone bother with cast marble=
? Granite? Gneiss? Can you produce cast stone of any varie=
ty? c </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:25:28 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cast your stone upon the waters...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1083003928"
-------------------------------1083003928
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In a message dated 4/26/2004 2:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Does all cast stone have to be as cheesy as what we see in NYC?
Nossir, it sho' 'nuff don't.
Our ce-ment pond was made outen cast stone, only kind of inside-out.
Sign me,
Jethro Bodine
-------------------------------1083003928
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/26/2004 2:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Does all cast stone have to be as cheesy=
as what we see in NYC?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Nossir, it sho' 'nuff don't.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Our ce-ment pond was made outen cast stone, only kind of inside-out.</D=
IV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sign me,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jethro Bodine</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1083003928--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:36:28 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cast your soluble binding agent upon the waters...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1083004588"
-------------------------------1083004588
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In a message dated 4/26/2004 2:25:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
And, does anyone bother with cast marble? Granite? Gneiss? Can you produce
cast stone of any variety? c
If you grind the real thing up and mix it with either cement or some sort of
epoxy, you could do that.
Don't know that anybody would bother to do it with gneiss, but where you need
a bunch of identical replacement pieces (for TC, or even for marble or
limestone) it would most likely be cheaper to make a mold and then make a bunch of
castings from it, than to have an equal number of pieces carved from the Real
Thing.
Might even be cheaper to make a mold and cast one than having it carved,
depending on the intricacy of the piece, the presence of an identical (or similar)
one to make a mold from, and the visibility of the item to be replaced.
Ralph
-------------------------------1083004588
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/26/2004 2:25:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, MetHisto=
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">And, does anyone bother with cast marble=
? Granite? Gneiss? Can you produce cast stone of any varie=
ty? c </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>If you grind the real thing up and mix it with either cement or some so=
rt of epoxy, you could do that. </DIV>
<DIV>Don't know that anybody would bother to do it with gneiss, but whe=
re you need a bunch of identical replacement pieces (for TC, or ev=
en for marble or limestone) it would most likely be cheaper to make a mold a=
nd then make a bunch of castings from it, than to have an equal number of pi=
eces carved from the Real Thing. </DIV>
<DIV>Might even be cheaper to make a mold and cast <U>one</U> than having it=
carved, depending on the intricacy of the piece, the presence of an identic=
al (or similar) one to make a mold from, and the visibility of the item to b=
e replaced. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
-------------------------------1083004588--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:22:12 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: creighton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cast your stone upon the waters...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C42BCC.28530A30"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C42BCC.28530A30
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
you only see the cheesy stuff. The good stuff is like any good =
restoration, you don't know it happened. That is if it is ment to =
represent stone. Cast stone has been around a long time and some of it =
seems to weather better than some stones.ctb
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Met History=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 2:19 PM
Subject: [BP] cast your stone upon the waters...
"Cast stone." I see a lot of it in New York. Of course, you can =
indeed "cast the first stone", but even I know that you cannot "cast" a =
stone in the sense of building materials - unless you are a volcano.=20
I imagine cast stone is like plywood, which is lots of glue. How much =
stone is there in "cast stone? =20
Is it just my 'magination, or does cast stone soil more quickly than =
other stone? If so, is it because cast stone doesn't weather away as =
quickly as, say, limestone? =20
Does all cast stone have to be as cheesy as what we see in NYC?
Christopher
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C42BCC.28530A30
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>you only see the cheesy stuff. The good stuff is =
like any good=20
restoration, you don't know it happened. That is if it is ment to =
represent=20
stone. Cast stone has been around a long time and some of it seems to =
weather=20
better than some stones.ctb</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Met =
History</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
[log in to unmask]
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINH=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 26, 2004 =
2:19=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [BP] cast your stone =
upon the=20
waters...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">"Cast stone." I see a lot of =
it in New=20
York. Of course, you can indeed "cast the first stone", =
but even I=20
know that you cannot "cast" a stone in the sense of building materials =
-=20
unless you are a volcano. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I imagine cast stone is like =
plywood, which=20
is lots of glue. How much stone is there in "cast stone? =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Is it just my 'magination, or does =
cast=20
stone soil more quickly than other stone? If so, is it because =
cast=20
stone doesn't weather away as quickly as, say, limestone? =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Does all cast stone have to be as =
cheesy as=20
what we see in NYC?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Christopher=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C42BCC.28530A30--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:32:00 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: cast stone
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ctbrown wrote that I just didn't see the good stuff.
Could someone point out some of the good stuff to me in NYC, that I can
inspect from the street? Either whole facades, or just patches? ---Christopher
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f">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">ctbrown wrote that I just didn't see the=
good stuff.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Could someone point out some of the good=
stuff to me in NYC, that I can inspect from the street? Either w=
hole facades, or just patches? ---Christopher </FONT></DIV></BOD=
Y></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:39:21 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cheesy cast stone
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She came up on me ; big and bright; one of those women who are afraid to
talk to dusty guys in overalls so they take the school marm approach . "Can you
fix our stone ? " she blurted out without introduction.
I had been looking at some cast stone light posts that were heavily painted
(white) that had a lions head cast upon them ; a signature trait of the
architect Im told.
The work was good ; 1920's faux limestone with a tight bond using real high
buff limestone with carvings of arts and craft details.
A lot different that the cast recently put up at the university. These were
copings and cap stones meant to mimic the traditional limestone of the 1920's .
They were "dead "looking with that sick limestone liquid color that only
seems to worsen tin the sun .
It is my belief that the public and the pin heads who design and order this
stuff have no classical training and could care less . Its what they use at the
golf course (see club houses with cathedral ceilings) and since the parents
who send their little darlings to these institutions of higher learning think
like they do its one big happy family trying to mimic Oxford in word and deed.
The fact is to make good cast.... is more expensive (now) than it is to
fabricate the actual stone
I am talking detail and not talking flat work .There is no such thing as
cheap molds or form work and the labor of refining the sands and stone powder to
exact beautiful finishes let alone testing is something that cannot be bought
off the shelf.
There are some beautiful porticos here in the south of high grade work cast
in place . The farther north you go the more this work has disappeared (see
falling water) . In my work most of the time after a piece has weathered 25 or so
winters it needs a sacrificial mineral coating
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<DIV>She came up on me ; big and bright; one of those women=
who are afraid to talk to dusty guys in overalls so they take the sch=
ool marm approach . "Can you fix our stone ? " she blurted out without intro=
duction.</DIV>
<DIV>I had been looking at some cast stone light posts that were heavily pai=
nted (white) that had a lions head cast upon them ; a signature trait o=
f the architect Im told.</DIV>
<DIV>The work was good ; 1920's faux limestone with a tight bond using=
real high buff limestone with carvings of arts and craft detail=
s.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A lot different that the cast recently put up at the university. These=20=
were copings and cap stones meant to mimic the traditional limestone of the=20=
1920's . They were "dead "looking with that sick limestone liquid=
color that only seems to worsen tin the sun .</DIV>
<DIV>It is my belief that the public and the pin heads who design and order=20=
this stuff have no classical training and could care less . Its what they us=
e at the golf course (see club houses with cathedral ceilings) and since the=
parents who send their little darlings to these institutions of higher lear=
ning think like they do its one big happy family trying to mimic Oxford=
in word and deed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The fact is to make good cast.... is more expensive (now) than it is to=
fabricate the actual stone</DIV>
<DIV>I am talking detail and not talking flat work .There is no s=
uch thing as cheap molds or form work and the labor of refining t=
he sands and stone powder to exact beautiful finishes let alone testing is s=
omething that cannot be bought off the shelf. </DIV>
<DIV>There are some beautiful porticos here in the south of high grade work=20=
cast in place . The farther north you go the more this work has disappeared=20=
(see falling water) . In my work most of the time after a piece has weathere=
d 25 or so winters it needs a sacrificial mineral coating =
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:44:00 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cast stone
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Christopher-
There are several of the Art Deco apartment buildings in Inwood which have
very good examples of cast stone at the door surrounds. Many of the Horace
Ginsbern piles feature cast stone elements.
Twybil
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Christopher-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are several of the Art Deco apartment buildings in Inwood which h=
ave very good examples of cast stone at the door surrounds. Many of the Hora=
ce Ginsbern piles feature cast stone elements. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Twybil</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:45:44 -0500
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: edison <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cheesy cast stone
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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We get to see lots of self-destructing cast stone, and I always found it
curious that these elements can weather 70 or 80 years and then rapidly blow
apart. I didn't pay CrushStone Steve for his opinion that this is usually
freeze-thaw damage. It does amaze me that these things can be sitting right
next to each other on a band course or coping and one is completely crumbling
and the other remains in good condition.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062
Phone: (860) 747-2220 or (800)697-8055
Fax: (860)747-2280 or (800) 697-8044
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
> The fact is to make good cast.... is more expensive (now) than it is to
> fabricate the actual stone
> I am talking detail and not talking flat work .There is no such thing
> as cheap molds or form work and the labor of refining the sands and
> stone powder to exact beautiful finishes let alone testing is
> something that cannot be bought off the shelf. There are some
> beautiful porticos here in the south of high grade work cast in place
> . The farther north you go the more this work has disappeared (see
> falling water) . In my work most of the time after a piece has
> weathered 25 or so winters it needs a sacrificial mineral coating
------- End of Original Message -------
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:02:38 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> Incorrect or incomplete address field found and
ignored.
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Email Address Change
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Sometime in the next week or so the [log in to unmask] address for
me will terminate
I will continue to get mail via [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
and [log in to unmask]
--
J.A. Drew Diaz
EDGE Development Construction
Suite 1205
150 W 28th St
NY, NY 10001
t 212.741.7348
f 212.741.7423
c 917.971.1577
e [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
w http://edgedc.com <http://edgedc.com/>
--------------050409090302040407040107
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<title></title>
</head>
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<title></title>
Sometime in the next week or so the <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>
address for
me will terminate<br>
I will continue to get mail via <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>
and <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">J.A.
Drew Diaz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">EDGE
Development Construction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Suite</span></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 1205</span></st1:address><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">150 W 28th St</span></st1:address></st1:Street><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">NY</span></st1:City><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">10001</st1:PostalCode></span></st1:place><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">t</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7348<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">f</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 212.741.7423<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">c</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> 917.971.1577<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">e</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="GramE"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">w</span></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a
href="http://edgedc.com/">http://edgedc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:21:08 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Email Address Change
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-------------------------------1083169268
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In a message dated 4/28/2004 9:03:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Sometime in the next week or so the [log in to unmask] address for me
will terminate
I will continue to get mail via [log in to unmask] and [log in to unmask]
We never liked that address anyway.
Ralph
-------------------------------1083169268
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/28/2004 9:03:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, ddedge@B=
ROADVIEWNET.NET writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Sometime in the next week or so the </FONT><A=20=
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated title=3Dmailto:[log in to unmask] href=
=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"><FONT face=3DArial>[log in to unmask]
et</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial> address for me will terminate<BR>I will con=
tinue to get mail via </FONT><A title=3Dmailto:[log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto=
:[log in to unmask]"><FONT face=3DArial>[log in to unmask]</FONT></A><FONT face=3DAr=
ial> and </FONT><A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated title=3Dmailto:ddiaz@edg=
edc.com href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"><FONT face=3DArial>[log in to unmask]
</FONT></A></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>We never liked that address anyway.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:26:28 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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So, Wei from work just told me this guy either was on Today this =
morning, or will be tomorrow morning.
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard =
Stevenson
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:35 AM
To: Monty@CobbleHouse (E-mail)
Subject: [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
=09
=09
Proving that Texans do have a sense of humour .... but I've been in his =
desperate situation before too.
Check this link below and read the descriptions. It's hilarious
=09
=09
Too funny... gotta see this .... this is an auction on Ebay....go to
www.ebay.com and type in the search field the following item number:
4146756343 ....or click on this link:
=09
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343
=09
=09
Be sure to read the description!
=09
=09
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D269202517-28042004>So, Wei from work just told me this guy =
either was on=20
Today this morning, or will be tomorrow morning.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
[log in to unmask] =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard Stevenson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April =
28,=20
2004 9:35 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Monty@CobbleHouse =
(E-mail)<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
[Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D515433613-28042004>Proving that Texans do have a sense of =
humour ....=20
but I've been in his desperate situation before =
too.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Check this link below and read the descriptions. It's =
hilarious<BR><BR><BR>Too funny... gotta see this .... this is an =
auction on=20
Ebay....go to<BR><A href=3D"http://www.ebay.com">www.ebay.com</A> =
and type in=20
the search field the following item number:<BR>4146756343 ....or =
click=20
on this link:<BR><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D41467563=
43">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343</=
A><BR><BR><BR>Be=20
sure to read the =
description!<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:24:58 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1083191098"
-------------------------------1083191098
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/28/2004 1:28:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343
Good work, Pam. And what's the gender of this Wei person?
Ralph
-------------------------------1083191098
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/28/2004 1:28:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, pssisd@R=
IT.EDU writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><BR><A title=3Dhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&=
item=3D4146756343 href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&=
item=3D4146756343"><FONT face=3DArial>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V=
iewItem&item=3D4146756343</FONT></A></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Good work, Pam. And what's the gender of this Wei person?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:02:22 -0700
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C42DD9.725765E0"
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MessageThanks for the belly laugh. Good for the heart! =20
Great writing. Is this format (eBay) the new venue for creative =
writers, sort of a literary graffiti? From the name of his e-mail =
address ([log in to unmask]) I wonder. There were 6 =
million hits last night and 8.5 million this morning. What a great =
resume item for a budding writer going job hunting.
cp international
Too funny... gotta see this .... this is an auction on Ebay....go to
www.ebay.com and type in the search field the following item number:
4146756343 ....or click on this link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343
Be sure to read the description!
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C42DD9.725765E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the belly laugh. =
Good for=20
the heart! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Great writing. Is this =
format=20
(eBay) the new venue for creative writers, sort of a literary=20
graffiti? From the name of his e-mail address (<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">horseplaypublishing@hotma=
il.com</A>)=20
I wonder. There were 6 million hits last night and 8.5 million =
this=20
morning. What a great resume item for a budding writer going =
job=20
hunting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp international</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Too funny... gotta see this .... this =
is an=20
auction on Ebay....go to<BR><A =
href=3D"http://www.ebay.com">www.ebay.com</A> and=20
type in the search field the following item number:<BR>4146756343 =
....or click=20
on this link:<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D41467563=
43">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343</=
A><BR>Be=20
sure to read the description!</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:21:48 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C42E2F.FB22EED4"
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Wei is female - from mainland China. Nice woman - very squeaky voice.
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of =
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 6:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
=09
=09
In a message dated 4/28/2004 1:28:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343 =
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343>=20
Good work, Pam. And what's the gender of this Wei person?
=20
Ralph
------_=_NextPart_001_01C42E2F.FB22EED4
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><SPAN =
class=3D455222121-29042004>Wei=20
is female - from mainland China. Nice woman - very squeaky=20
voice.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This isn`t an =
orifice,=20
it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 28, 2004 6:25=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [BP] [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/28/2004 1:28:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D41467563=
43"=20
=
title=3Dhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D41467563=
43><FONT=20
=
face=3DArial>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D414=
6756343</FONT></A></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>Good work, Pam. And what's the gender of this Wei =
person?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:23:05 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pamela Stevenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I think you may have just defined a new venue for Gabriel Orgrease! =
What a great idea!!
-----Original Message-----
From: This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting. =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cuyler =
Page
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 2:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BP] [Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale
=09
=09
Thanks for the belly laugh. Good for the heart! =20
=20
Great writing. Is this format (eBay) the new venue for creative =
writers, sort of a literary graffiti? From the name of his e-mail =
address ([log in to unmask]) I wonder. There were 6 =
million hits last night and 8.5 million this morning. What a great =
resume item for a budding writer going job hunting.
=20
cp international
=20
Too funny... gotta see this .... this is an auction on Ebay....go to
www.ebay.com and type in the search field the following item number:
4146756343 ....or click on this link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343
Be sure to read the description!
------_=_NextPart_001_01C42E30.28E638D8
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3813.800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D746252221-29042004>I think you may have just defined a new venue =
for=20
Gabriel Orgrease! What a great idea!!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> This =
isn`t an=20
orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting.=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Cuyler=20
Page<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 29, 2004 2:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BP]=20
[Monty]FW: Wedding dress for sale<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the belly =
laugh. Good for=20
the heart! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Great writing. Is this =
format=20
(eBay) the new venue for creative writers, sort of a literary=20
graffiti? From the name of his e-mail address (<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">horseplaypublishing@hotma=
il.com</A>)=20
I wonder. There were 6 million hits last night and 8.5 million =
this=20
morning. What a great resume item for a budding writer =
going job=20
hunting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp international</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Too funny... gotta see this .... =
this is an=20
auction on Ebay....go to<BR><A =
href=3D"http://www.ebay.com">www.ebay.com</A>=20
and type in the search field the following item =
number:<BR>4146756343 ....or=20
click on this link:<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D41467563=
43">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4146756343</=
A><BR>Be=20
sure to read the =
description!</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:30:21 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cast your stone upon the waters...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
>
> Does all cast stone have to be as cheesy as what we see in NYC?
>
Christopher,
The good cast stone you don't notice.
Try the front steps at the New Victory Theater. Last time I looked they
looked pretty good.
They may look like shit now but I doubt it. Townhouse did them. Alan
Barr. 718-497-9200.
Look at the 1st-2nd floor stone cornice on the B&N at Union Square, full
front length, above the entry. Again, Townhouse.
It is GFRC, which is cast stone. Tell me you can tell the difference if
you had not been told.
There are a few folks around that specialize in architectural cast stone
for histo presto. I just don't remember their names right this minute.
MJM Studios used to do it until Mike got pissed at the histo presto
industry and decided to stick to Bahamas resorts.
The cheesy crap comes about like this... some guy that makes statuary on
Lung Island decides one day to expand his product line. He don't know
what it is really worth, or how to do it to look like real stone, or
even really fine cast stone, and he is cheap. So the bottom line
prevails. They get what they pay for which is a dancing fairy & frog
prince fountain turned into architectural decor.
Or the concrete pipe manufacturer... their precast tends to reflect
concrete pipe manufacturing process.
There is cast stone that looks like stone, faux stone... any kind you
want, actually, and there is cast stone that brings out the finer
quality and character of cast stone.
As Ralph mentioned... molds... molds can be done in situ of existing
elements and then replicated usually in a shop.
Cast stone as a replacement for terra cotta can mean quicker turn around
time from concept to completion of a project.
Sometimes it is just faster, easier and cheaper to use cast stone than
the original materials.
Cast stone in like a window lintel to replace delaminated brownstone may
very well increase durability.
Concrete, fancy concrete which is what cast stone is about, is aggregate
(real stone) with a cementitious binder.
GFRC is when you add chopped up fiberglass, making thin shell (1/2" to
3/4" thickness) units possible. (They can make boats out of this stuff.)
Color retention can be a problem, plus the thermal & moisture related
behaviour of concrete is often different than stone.
Since cast stone is a manufactured product there are more variables that
can be engineered and experimented with than with a natural material.
Sometimes there are polymers & quite often SS reinforcement.
][<en
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:34:14 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cheesy cast stone
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I forget... one of the economic factors fueling development of cast
stone in NYC is the historical scarcity of natural brownstone as well as
NYC available stone carvers.
The cost to carve the cornice on the B&N from natural stone was
something like 4 times the cost to replicate in GFRC. That was not even
including the likely increased cost in installation due to need for more
beefed up scaffolding and hoisting equipment, let alone a more hefty
engineered anchoring system.
][<en
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:51:23 EDT
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cheesy cast stone
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="-----------------------------1083289883"
-------------------------------1083289883
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/29/2004 9:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
The cost to carve the cornice on the B&N from natural stone was
something like 4 times the cost to replicate in GFRC. That was not even
including the likely increased cost in installation due to need for more
beefed up scaffolding and hoisting equipment, let alone a more hefty
engineered anchoring system.
I for one am not so terribly impressed with Huge Hardy's and Mr. Peepee's
fake brownstone steps and pilasters and pedestals at the New Victory Theater. Or
with their cheapo-imitation old torchieres, and certainly not with their new
neon stripes and signage, either.
They (They being BBB&B) have just put up a humongous theater-type marquee
with 10,000 light bulbs on the front of the Candler Building on 42 Street. This
is for the front of a goddam Mickey D's which has been inserted into the
ground floor of what had been a perfectly respectable office building built by the
founder of Coca Cola. They have also replaced some lost marble pilasters,
which have what appears to be pretty damn good carving, but the mortar joints
look like they were tooled with some old mason's wide forefinger.
On the other hand, the good news is that some cheesy tourist trap at the west
end of the north side of 42nd St (at 8th Av) has gone out of business. Fuck
them, and Donald Trump, too.
Me, I'm going to be working in Jersey in a month, so I don't have to listen
to Chrif bitch about me like I just bitched about BBBBBBBBB&B. Much safer to
go around bayoneting the wounded after the battle is over than to have people
shooting at you.
Ralph
-------------------------------1083289883
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2737.800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/29/2004 9:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orgrease=
@PROBEDBYALIENS.COM writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>The cost to carve the cornice on the B&N f=
rom natural stone was<BR>something like 4 times the cost to replicate in GFR=
C. That was not even<BR>including the likely increased cost in installation=20=
due to need for more<BR>beefed up scaffolding and hoisting equipment, let al=
one a more hefty<BR>engineered anchoring system.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>I for one am not so terribly impressed wi=
th Huge Hardy's and Mr. Peepee's fake brownstone steps and pi=
lasters and pedestals at the New Victory Theater. Or with their&n=
bsp;cheapo-imitation old torchieres, and certainly not with their new neon s=
tripes and signage, either.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>They (They being BBB&B) have just put=
up a humongous theater-type marquee with 10,000 light bulbs on the front of=
the Candler Building on 42 Street. This is for the front of a goddam=20=
Mickey D's which has been inserted into the ground floor of what had been a=20=
perfectly respectable office building built by the founder of Coca Cola.&nbs=
p; They have also replaced some lost marble pilasters, which have what appea=
rs to be pretty damn good carving, but the mortar joints look like they were=
tooled with some old mason's wide forefinger. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>On the other hand, the good news is that=20=
some cheesy tourist trap at the west end of the north side of 42nd St (at 8t=
h Av) has gone out of business. Fuck them, and Donald Trump, too.</FON=
T></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Me, I'm going to be working in Jersey in=20=
a month, so I don't have to listen to Chrif bitch about me like I just bitch=
ed about BBBBBBBBB&B. Much safer to go around bayoneting the wound=
ed after the battle is over than to have people shooting at you. </FON=
T></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#400040>Ralph</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:50:17 -0400
Reply-To: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "This isn`t an orifice, it`s help with fluorescent lighting."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cast your stone upon the waters...
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In a message dated 4/29/2004 9:30:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Try the front steps at the New Victory Theater. Last time I > looked they> looked pretty good.> They may look like shit now but I doubt it.
Thank you, Ken. The real test of course is how something ages. c
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