In a message dated 11/9/2003 4:01:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
Esteemed Brother Ralph; Honored Sir Pyrate!

One . The victors always get to write the history ( see "Don't tread on Me " So what else is new?

When they hanged Nathan Hale near the present day Pan Am (met life building)
He was a traitor  to the Crown ( the then Government ( You are entirely correct; Geo. Washington & Co WERE traitors to the Crown, which is why Benjamin Franklin said "If we don't all hang together, we will all hang separately."
had the outcome been different then the "Don't tread on me " crowd may  be
viewed as associated as treason Can't argue that "our" side are always the patriots and the "their" side are always the traitors.  But in this case, who took up arms against the US government?
It always amazes me how history "gets cleaned up" to support one view point
or the status quo of the inteligencia

We hear little about how Jews overwhelming supported and voted for the later
Dictator of the third Reich (see election 1933) there of course  were valid
reasons for this but it  in itself doesn't fit the tight neat little picture of
what we want to present as truth.  Ixnay.  The Paperhanger made it very clear from the beginning that there was no place for the Jews in Germany, or in Europe, and ultimately on the planet (in the planet, yes; but not live on the surface).  The reason you don't hear about Jewish support for Hitler was that there wasn't any.  The fact is History is as  complex as it is wonderfull
We also hear little about free blacks who owned slaves and plantations (see
Louisiana Florida  histories of ) That's news to this Southrener, but I suspect there weren't a whole lot of slave-owning free Blacks, and a good deal fewer of them than there were slave-owning free whites.
and American Indians who owned slaves and plantations (see Choctaw Nation
history of ).

We also hear little that the most blacks lynched in one day was New york city
in the draft riiots; the sanitized  TV interpetation of the lynchings were
excused as economic (jobs) which would have never been the version had they
happened down South  Oh, no, the Yankees would never do anything untoward.  But I don't remember hearing anybody looking back on that day as the good old days, either.
The insidious corruption of the industrial north before during and after the
states war. (see Gangs of New York boss Tweed Didn't see the movie [struck me as too violent, to tell the truth), but I should think you'd be among the first to question such a Yankee interpretation of history; I don't remember having heard that Martin Scorsese is a native of Beaufort, SC) gave the South much to distrust a feeling very much alive today  when they consider Washington  No doubt.  My friend Clark out in AZ distrusts what they do in DC, or at least he did when Clinton was doing it.
Finally there also is no valid explanation from Ideologues  that most Southerners who fought and died for the South did not own slaves so what was in it for them ? I will agree that most of them didn't own slaves, and it would appear that the matter of states' rights was the basis of much of the war.  As I remember, the Articles of Confederation didn't last because everything was too fragmented, and was superseded by the Constitution which made the Feds  supreme. .... if it was all about slavery..... State rights ? (see constitution)
Fast forward 170 yrs
The rebel flag that most people fly today down "hair" is more liken to Dukes
of Hazzard (see Nascar) than George Wallace ;  I would like to think that you're right, but there seems to be an awful lot of George Wallace left in the flag, and how is anybody supposed to separate the Dukes from George?  As a f'rinstance, my female cousin in GA was telling us last summer that if the opportunity arose, she wouldn't let a black doctor examine her young daughter.   So what does the rebel flag on her pickup (and she has one)mean? the tee shirt with the flag the toddler wears is more liken to being a
"Dixie" girl  than its stupid  Mississippi Burning Kkk counterpart that Hollywood
sells  to the masses like Draculas castle sells  to  the tourists

The statement here (as I read it ; and as most blacks who live and work here
read it ...unless your in the lockstep of  the  NACCP)) is that its a "rebel thing" ...as in Go Rebels. Are you saying this is a high school/college football phenomenon?  (it would be intolerable otherwise  Here we may be in agreement)  The most popular bumper sticker here today reads  "Heritage not hate"...... with the rebel flag a top it  That is certainly admirable, and I seem to remember having seen such stickers, but I am reminded of a friend of mine from HS whose father also came from Germany (his father was a Christian, though); my friend once asked me whether I would have had a favorable opinion of Hitler if he hadn't been anti-Semitic.  The problem was, the anti-Semitism was an integral part of Nazism, and between slavery and the treatment of the blacks after TWBTS, I have a hard time seeing the Confederate Flag as any more race-neutral than the swastika as connoting religious tolerance. The fact that all these shithead racists (today and for the past 135 years) have adopted
the Stars and Bars as their emblem doesn't do a goddam thing to help your argument, and only strengthens mine.

The clash happens when the ideologues of the North( and South)
want  to conceptualize and politicize the simple Dixie  culture I don't think it's so goddam simple, although in your case as a person of genuine good will, it may well be a good deal simpler than in many others .by the
demonizing  of the flag.. with the agenda that only bigots will wave it...The problem (for you) is that bigots DO wave it, and how are you and the rest of the people of good will going to take it back from the bigots?
.in fact the exact opposite happens.... .and it takes on a "Don't tread on me ". life of its own...pass the hot dogs  How about a beer?

Dem.Candidate Dean is smart...does he think its ok to own 5 guns in the
middle of Newark or the Bronx ...No  is it ok in rural Tenn  or Kentucky (yes) I will concede that there might be some good reasons to have them in Nerk and Da Bronx, too.  I have a neighbor whose got a basement full of 'em, but haven't sorted out my feelings on his case. I trust him (I think), and worry somewhat about his sons, but the real problem is the burglar who happens to choose this guy's house and finds himself in a goddam arsenal.
Does he think if you fly the rebel flag  that your a racist,(no)  As with my neighbor, I trust your use of the Confederate flag, but there are lots of others I don't trust (including Jesse's friends in the Rainbow Coalition). and that those that do can be democrats (yes)....
well the wind dun gone and thats my story and Im sticking to it  Py
Ah, the hell with it.  I've run out of     a)  steam.
                                                           b)  piss and vinegar
                                                           c)  bullshit.
                                                           d) all of the above
 
Ralph