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Content-Description: Card for J.A. Drew Diaz
Content-Disposition: attachment;
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begin:vcard
n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------C9583E1B43791EA9C41446A7--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:34:03 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: It's a heck of a world when an all-American boy can't carry a
pocketknife! <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: [Fwd: Ddedge, Protect freedom of speech in Russia]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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[log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> [Image][Image]
How to help us
Although our organization is based on a non-profit principle, we need money
to implement and maintain our projects. We dependent on donations by those
who share our concerns and want to help us with our work.
Please support us with your donations. We will appreciate any amount you
give - 'many drops build a river', so never think that your donation is too
small to take action.
Our Bank accounts open for you:
US dollars - ING Bank NV Netherlands: 02.01.99.910
Dutch Guilders - ING Bank NV Netherlands: 68.01.26.988
All information on donations, sponsorship, etc. will be treated in
strictest confidence!
If you do not want to publicize any information about yourself, you can
make an anonymous transfer to our bank account from any bank office. To do
this just transfer an amount in cash with the remark "donation".
There are various possibilities to work with us which are outlined
Who we are
Kavkaz-Center (www.kavkazcenter.org) - is Chechen independent international
Islamic Internet agency.
Our agency was founded in March of 1999 in the city of Jokhar (Grozny). The
founder is the
National Center for Strategic Research and Political Technologies, which
was in turn registered,
with the Ministry of Justice of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in October
of 1998 (N 1377/A-17).
The Kavkaz-Center Internet Agency is oriented to cover events in the
Islamic world,
Caucasus and Russia. One of the main tasks of Kavkaz-Center is to cover the
events in the
Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (the C.R.I. for short) concerning the Russian
military invasion
against the C.R.I.
Donations
There are no rules as to the regularity of donations. They can be made once
or several times for any amount that you have in mind.
For practical reasons we suggest not to donatate below $10 USD.
If you make a donation and want to notify it (anonymous when you want) to
us: use this form
Projects
Our website is an important channel to spread information world wide
reflecting the publications of the international press, background,
historical and cultural information and documentation about all our
projects.
The ultimate goal of the project is to establish an independent news agency
on Chechnya which will be able to provide valuable information from the
area on a regular basis, and which will be self-financed, i.e. the agency
will derive income by selling news to other news agencies.
As the first step in order to achieve the above goal we would like to
create an innovative website with a number of features having a regularly
updated own content and a compilation of news items coming from elsewhere.
The focus will be placed on own content that will be made available on the
website in the following ways:
Reports from Chechnya - resulting from daily communications, including
satellite telephone (through the existing satellite network, and through
newly established channels) with various parts of Chechnya, and, in
particular, with 'hot' areas where possible.
Video footage from Chechnya by professional team of journalists uploaded on
Video/Audio page of the website (once a week or more, if necessary),
including interviews, reports and analysis. Discussion forum, including
live video conferencing through the website by means of the satellite link
with Chechnya (once a week or more, if necessary). Along with actual
members of the forum (prominent people from various parts of the world who
are not indifferent to the cause) which will be limited to four at a time,
audience will be encouraged to ask questions on the subject, to share their
opinions, etc.
CLICK HERE TO DONATE MONEY
2002. "Kavkaz-Center" News Agency
[log in to unmask]
>
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<p>[log in to unmask] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<table BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH="600" >
<tr>
<td>
<center><a href="http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/feedback/"><img SRC="cid:part1.3DC9528B.AACB2D56@winstarmail.com" BORDER=0 ></a><a href="http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/feedback/"><img SRC="cid:part2.3DC9528B.AACB2D56@winstarmail.com" BORDER=0 ></a></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<center>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=+2>How to help
us </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Although
our organization is based on a non-profit principle, we need money to implement
and maintain our projects. We dependent on donations by those who share
our concerns and want to help us with our work. </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Please support
us with your donations. We will appreciate any amount you give - 'many
drops build a river', so never think that your donation is too small to
take action. </font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Our Bank
accounts open for you: </font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>US dollars
- ING Bank NV Netherlands: 02.01.99.910 </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Dutch Guilders
- ING Bank NV Netherlands: 68.01.26.988 </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>All information
on donations, sponsorship, etc. will be treated in strictest confidence! </font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>If you do
not want to publicize any information about yourself, you can make an anonymous
transfer to our bank account from any bank office. To do this just transfer
an amount in cash with the remark "donation". </font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>There are
various possibilities to work with us which are outlined</font></font></b>
<br>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=+2>Who we are </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Kavkaz-Center
(www.kavkazcenter.org) - is Chechen independent international Islamic Internet
agency. </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Our agency
was founded in March of 1999 in the city of Jokhar (Grozny). The founder
is the </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>National
Center for Strategic Research and Political Technologies, which was in
turn registered, </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>with the
Ministry of Justice of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in October of 1998
(N 1377/A-17). </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>The Kavkaz-Center
Internet Agency is oriented to cover events in the Islamic world, </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Caucasus
and Russia. One of the main tasks of Kavkaz-Center is to cover the events
in the </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Chechen
Republic of Ichkeria (the C.R.I. for short) concerning the Russian military
invasion </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>against
the C.R.I. </font></font></b>
<br>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=+2>Donations </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>There are
no rules as to the regularity of donations. They can be made once or several
times for any amount that you have in mind.</font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>For practical
reasons we suggest not to donatate below $10 USD. </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>If you make
a donation and want to notify it (anonymous when you want) to us: use this
form</font></font></b>
<br>
<br>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=+2>Projects </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Our website
is an important channel to spread information world wide reflecting the
publications of the international press, background, historical and cultural
information and documentation about all our projects. </font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>The ultimate
goal of the project is to establish an independent news agency on Chechnya
which will be able to provide valuable information from the area on a regular
basis, and which will be self-financed, i.e. the agency will derive income
by selling news to other news agencies.</font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>As the first
step in order to achieve the above goal we would like to create an innovative
website with a number of features having a regularly updated own content
and a compilation of news items coming from elsewhere. The focus will be
placed on own content that will be made available on the website in the
following ways:</font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Reports from
Chechnya - resulting from daily communications, including satellite telephone
(through the existing satellite network, and through newly established
channels) with various parts of Chechnya, and, in particular, with 'hot'
areas where possible.</font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=-1>Video footage
from Chechnya by professional team of journalists uploaded on Video/Audio
page of the website (once a week or more, if necessary), including interviews,
reports and analysis. Discussion forum, including live video conferencing
through the website by means of the satellite link with Chechnya (once
a week or more, if necessary). Along with actual members of the forum (prominent
people from various parts of the world who are not indifferent to the cause)
which will be limited to four at a time, audience will be encouraged to
ask questions on the subject, to share their opinions, etc.</font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size=+2><a href="http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/feedback/">CLICK
HERE TO DONATE MONEY</a></font></font></b>
<br>
<br>
<p><font face="verdana"><font size=-2>2002. "Kavkaz-Center" News Agency</font></font>
<br><font face="verdana"><font size=-2><a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
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--------------7917870A95F31375FF998F9C--
--------------F4F25EA3F3073A42B3E8D524--
--------------06876612B0D32D4E62F45875
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="ddedge.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for J.A. Drew Diaz
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="ddedge.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------06876612B0D32D4E62F45875--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:21:57 -0500
Reply-To: It's a heck of a world when an all-American boy can't carry a
pocketknife! <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: It's a heck of a world when an all-American boy can't carry a
pocketknife! <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Last Saturday I was flying back from a consult on Cumberland Island, off the
coast of Georgia. One leg of the journey was a commercial flight. Security
checks were the most thurough I have experienced: shoes off, belt off, each
item in my briefcase handled and inspected, the whole routine took 23
minutes. A 1.5" sheetrock screw was confiscated from my shirtpocket. My
Vaisala Humidity & Temp. Indicator, Onset Hobo Data Shuttle, and Delmhorst
Moisture Meter (with 3" pointy probes and 3 pound slide hammer on 13"
shaft), and a dozen other items including digital camera and notebook
computer all passed through without any special notice.
John Leeke
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:29:19 -0600
Reply-To: It's a heck of a world when an all-American boy can't carry a
pocketknife! <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: It's a heck of a world when an all-American boy can't carry a
pocketknife! <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
In-Reply-To: <001f01c285c1$64766be0$4f92c3d8@GWJohn>
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That's an interesting account. How did you pack all this carry on
stuff?
-jc
On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 12:21 PM, John Leeke wrote:
> Last Saturday I was flying back from a consult on Cumberland Island,
> off the
> coast of Georgia. One leg of the journey was a commercial flight.
> Security
> checks were the most thurough I have experienced: shoes off, belt off,
> each
> item in my briefcase handled and inspected, the whole routine took 23
> minutes. A 1.5" sheetrock screw was confiscated from my shirtpocket. My
> Vaisala Humidity & Temp. Indicator, Onset Hobo Data Shuttle, and
> Delmhorst
> Moisture Meter (with 3" pointy probes and 3 pound slide hammer on 13"
> shaft), and a dozen other items including digital camera and notebook
> computer all passed through without any special notice.
>
> John Leeke
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:00:19 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Interesting link?
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
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I was looking for information on woman-owned businesses and happened on this
page (not sure of it's connection, but google seemed to like it). Anywho, I
figgered it might be useful for some of you preservation types.
http://www.buildtoday.com/builderdesk/associations_industry.htm
<http://www.buildtoday.com/builderdesk/associations_industry.htm>
- Pam
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Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D527035916-06112002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2>I was=20
looking for information on woman-owned businesses and happened on this =
page (not=20
sure of it's connection, but google seemed to like it). Anywho, I =
figgered=20
it might be useful for some of you preservation =
types.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D527035916-06112002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D527035916-06112002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.buildtoday.com/builderdesk/associations_industry.htm"=
>http://www.buildtoday.com/builderdesk/associations_industry.htm</A></FO=
NT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D527035916-06112002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D527035916-06112002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2>-=20
Pam</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:32:00 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
X-cc: [log in to unmask]
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In a message dated 11/6/2002 10:52:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Security checks were the most thurough I have experienced: shoes off, belt
> off, each item in my briefcase handled and inspected
John,
I think you got through easy... the last flight I took out of Detroit the guy
briskly patted down the family jewels. I don't think it was kinky, it was
over very quickly. I think my pants zipper (standard issue) confused him.
Possibly it was his first day? I was a bit flustered and thinking about
whacking him in the head if he went for another pass. I suppose there is a
reason that they make sure you are not holding a camera on a sling. Like I am
going to hold a weapon stuffed in there? Or is Mini-ME becomming reality? I
don't think most of these unfortunate security folks (just another Joe/Jane
with a day job) have a clue what they are doing and they are so intimidated
by the hi-priority nature of their role that they are afraid to relax. I'm
going to make sure to eat a lot of baked beans and garlic next time I fly.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/6/2002 10:52:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Security checks were the most thurough I have experienced: shoes off, belt off, each item in my briefcase handled and inspected</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
John,<BR>
<BR>
I think you got through easy... the last flight I took out of Detroit the guy briskly patted down the family jewels. I don't think it was kinky, it was over very quickly. I think my pants zipper (standard issue) confused him. Possibly it was his first day? I was a bit flustered and thinking about whacking him in the head if he went for another pass. I suppose there is a reason that they make sure you are not holding a camera on a sling. Like I am going to hold a weapon stuffed in there? Or is Mini-ME becomming reality? I don't think most of these unfortunate security folks (just another Joe/Jane with a day job) have a clue what they are doing and they are so intimidated by the hi-priority nature of their role that they are afraid to relax. I'm going to make sure to eat a lot of baked beans and garlic next time I fly.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:40:58 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2002 10:52:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> > Security checks were the most thurough I have experienced: shoes
off, belt
> > off, each item in my briefcase handled and inspected
>
> John,
>
> I think you got through easy... the last flight I took out of
Detroit the guy
> briskly patted down the family jewels. I don't think it was kinky,
it was
> over very quickly. I think my pants zipper (standard issue) confused
him.
> Possibly it was his first day? I was a bit flustered and thinking
about
> whacking him in the head if he went for another pass. I suppose
there is a
> reason that they make sure you are not holding a camera on a sling.
Like I am
> going to hold a weapon stuffed in there? Or is Mini-ME becomming
reality? I
> don't think most of these unfortunate security folks (just another
Joe/Jane
> with a day job) have a clue what they are doing and they are so
intimidated
> by the hi-priority nature of their role that they are afraid to
relax. I'm
> going to make sure to eat a lot of baked beans and garlic next time
I fly.
>
> ][<en
>
>
Hartford recently had its security federalized. Night and day
difference. Professional, authoritative, awake, alert security
personnel. Pleasant surprise.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:47:46 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: airport security
MIME-Version: 1.0
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My suspicion is that many of the Airports/Airlines took increased
security as an opportunity to cut back on personnel.
With travelers willing to show up 2 or even 3 hours early for flights
Check-ins and Security no longer had to be manned to account for
cyclical demand- but could be undermanned for constant delay.
Much as I am rarely in favor of Federalization this may be the exception
that proves the rule.
I've always felt that a $ .99 extra fine bic is as dangerous as any ice
pick.
DD
--------------E89375A54BB407D874B358BB
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x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------E89375A54BB407D874B358BB--
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:49:56 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ken Follett wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/2002 10:52:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>> Security checks were the most thurough I have experienced: shoes
>> off, belt off, each item in my briefcase handled and inspected
>
On the same trip I had the tiff w/ the National guard my 2 1/2 year old
was subjected to the extra special shoes off check-
that definitely rubbed me wrong.
DD
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n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:22:55 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
I'm sure the kid was wired, right?
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Drew Diaz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On the same trip I had the tiff w/ the National guard my 2 1/2 year old
was subjected to the extra special shoes off check-
that definitely rubbed me wrong.
DD
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:14:25 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Feelin' Groovy?
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When the 59th Street (Queensboro) Bridge opened in 1909, the celebration
commission received applications from 235 people applying for permission to
jump from the cantilever structure over the East River. 168 were from
professional bridge jumpers, 34 from inventors who wanted to try out
parachutes or other devices, 9 from would-be suicides, and 24 from unemployed
men who thought it might improve their chances for a job.
Christopher Gray, NYC
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">When the 59th Street (Queensboro) Bridge opened in 1909, the celebration commission received applications from 235 people applying for permission to jump from the cantilever structure over the East River. 168 were from professional bridge jumpers, 34 from inventors who wanted to try out parachutes or other devices, 9 from would-be suicides, and 24 from unemployed men who thought it might improve their chances for a job.
<BR>
<BR>Christopher Gray, NYC</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:00:55 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 11/6/02 8:53:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> I found the Protimeters to be superior in their ability to accurately read
> moisture in wood in the higher range (28% - 90%). As a result, PRG stopped
> carrying the Delmhorst line.
Bryan,
Did you check the moisture meters on plaster, too, or just on wood? We
generally use it on plaster to look for damp sections of wall, so I'm curious
to learn whether your test that found the Brit version superior included
tests on plaster. And is there any reason to think that one wouldn't be
better on both if it's better on one?
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 11/6/02 8:53:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3333ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I found the Protimeters to be superior in their ability to accurately read moisture in wood in the higher range (28% - 90%). As a result, PRG stopped carrying the Delmhorst line.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Bryan,<BR>
Did you check the moisture meters on plaster, too, or just on wood? We generally use it on plaster to look for damp sections of wall, so I'm curious to learn whether your test that found the Brit version superior included tests on plaster. And is there any reason to think that one wouldn't be better on both if it's better on one?<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:11:05 -0800
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
>Security checks were the most thurough
Quite different than the one I experienced in Seattle. During a three hour
lay-over, I plugged in my laptop and charged the batteries while passing
time. It always smells a little odd after charging. Later, when going
through "Security", they passed a cloth rag on a wand over the lap case and
then put the cloth in a black box machine that began flashing red lights and
sounding a little siren. The attendant repeated the process three times
with new cloths and the same result. Other attendants began to gather
around to see what was up and all the other passengers were staring at the
show. They then called for the Supervisor who did the test with the same
result. I then asked what was going on and was told by the Supervisor "The
testing machine says there is dynamite in there. It doesn't always work
right. You can go." and handed me the laptop!!!
cp in bc
flying high - but why
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:12:31 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J. Bryan Blundell" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
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Ralph:
Sorry but I feel that would be a meaningless test. I generally do not use
the resistance type meters to check "recordable" moisture levels in
anything but wood and paper/cellulose type materials. I may use a
resistance type meter sometimes to take a reading on masonry / plaster /
mineral type materials just to help confirm the conditions that I believe
to be observing but not as moisture readings. The reason we use a moisture
meter is because there has been a moisture problem. I have never been
called to a project because of a dry condition. Moisture problems with
masonry / plaster and other mineral type materials that have been active
for an extended time period will most likely involve some level of salt
contamination of the drying surface. The soluble salts that are naturally
occurring in ground soils and in masonry construction materials become
mobile in the presents of elevated moisture conditions. The mobile salts
will move to the drying surface and accumulate as the moisture evaporates.
This means the surface that you are measuring with a resistance type meter
is not only at some level of dampness but also some level of salt
contamination. The more salt that is present the more electrons flow
between the contacts of the resistant meter and the higher the reading on
the meter. It is frequently the case that an area of masonry / plaster /
mineral type material that has been subjected to an extended period of wet
and dry cycles may show a lower reading in a damp condition compared to an
almost dry condition. This is because of the accumulation of salt on the
surface. In a damp condition, the salts have gone back into solution and
are more dispersed compared to a dryer condition with more salts on the
surface. High range resistant moisture meters make very good salt
detection meters. The way I use them on masonry is to take a 1" dia. piece
of blotter paper. Make it dripping wet with water. Shake it to get off
excess water. Put the paper on the side of my index finger and take a
reading using the sides of the resistant meters prongs. The reading is xx.
Then the paper goes on the surface that I want to check for salts. I press
it there for about 30 seconds. Then take another reading as before. If the
new reading is xx, then no salts were detected. If the reading is xx+ then
there are soluble salts present of the surface. Depending on how large + is
will determine if de-salting of the surface is necessary prior to repairs
being made.
Every so often I am put in a position of having to dispute the findings
that another consultant where they have used a resistance type meter on
masonry. So the short answer is that I feel that the use of resistance type
meters to check moisture levels on masonry / plaster / mineral type
materials will provide you with meaningless readings a majority of the
time.
The exception to this is if "deep wall probes" are being installed in a
semi-permanent manner. Then resistant meter readings are valid in relation
to changes in the relative readings. the use of deep wall probes will
position the point of measurement well below the surface and away from the
fluctuating salt levels. If you drills and take the deep wall probes out
after each measurement and level the holes open then the holes are a very
unique condition within the wall. Very quickly the readings will become
meaningless because of the drying condition or condensation conditions
within the hole.
Bryan
======
Ralph Walter wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/02 8:53:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>> I found the Protimeters to be superior in their ability to accurately
>> read moisture in wood in the higher range (28% - 90%). As a result, PRG
>> stopped carrying the Delmhorst line.
>
> Bryan,
> Did you check the moisture meters on plaster, too, or just on wood? We
> generally use it on plaster to look for damp sections of wall, so I'm
> curious to learn whether your test that found the Brit version superior
> included tests on plaster. And is there any reason to think that one
> wouldn't be better on both if it's better on one?
> Ralph
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<font color="#3333FF">Ralph:</font><font color="#3333FF"></font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">Sorry but I feel that would be a meaningless test.
I generally do not use the resistance type meters to check "recordable"
moisture levels in anything but wood and paper/cellulose type materials.
I may use a resistance type meter sometimes to take a reading on masonry
/ plaster / mineral type materials just to help confirm the conditions
that I believe to be observing but not as moisture readings. The reason
we use a moisture meter is because there has been a moisture problem. I
have never been called to a project because of a dry condition. Moisture
problems with masonry / plaster and other mineral type materials that have
been active for an extended time period will most likely involve some level
of salt contamination of the drying surface. The soluble salts that are
naturally occurring in ground soils and in masonry construction materials
become mobile in the presents of elevated moisture conditions. The mobile
salts will move to the drying surface and accumulate as the moisture evaporates.
This means the surface that you are measuring with a resistance type meter
is not only at some level of dampness but also some level of salt contamination.
The more salt that is present the more electrons flow between the contacts
of the resistant meter and the higher the reading on the meter. It is frequently
the case that an area of masonry / plaster / mineral type material that
has been subjected to an extended period of wet and dry cycles may show
a lower reading in a damp condition compared to an almost dry condition.
This is because of the accumulation of salt on the surface. In a damp condition,
the salts have gone back into solution and are more dispersed compared
to a dryer condition with more salts on the surface. High range
resistant moisture meters make very good salt detection meters. The way
I use them on masonry is to take a 1" dia. piece of blotter paper. Make
it dripping wet with water. Shake it to get off excess water. Put
the paper on the side of my index finger and take a reading using the sides
of the resistant meters prongs. The reading is xx. Then the paper goes
on the surface that I want to check for salts. I press it there for about
30 seconds. Then take another reading as before. If the new reading is
xx, then no salts were detected. If the reading is xx+ then there are soluble
salts present of the surface. Depending on how large + is will determine
if de-salting of the surface is necessary prior to repairs being made.</font><font color="#3333FF"></font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">Every so often I am put in a position of having
to dispute the findings that another consultant where they have used a
resistance type meter on masonry. So the short answer is that I feel that
the use of resistance type meters to check moisture levels on masonry /
plaster / mineral type materials will provide you with meaningless readings
a majority of the time.</font><font color="#3333FF"></font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">The exception to this is if "deep wall probes"
are being installed in a semi-permanent manner. Then resistant meter readings
are valid in relation to changes in the relative readings. the use of deep
wall probes will position the point of measurement well below the surface
and away from the fluctuating salt levels. If you drills and take the deep
wall probes out after each measurement and level the holes open then the
holes are a very unique condition within the wall. Very quickly the readings
will become meaningless because of the drying condition or condensation
conditions within the hole.</font><font color="#3333FF"></font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">Bryan</font>
<br><font color="#3333FF">======</font>
<p>Ralph Walter wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>In a message
dated 11/6/02 8:53:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font color="#3333FF"><font size=-1>I
found the Protimeters to be superior in their ability to accurately read
moisture in wood in the higher range (28% - 90%). As a result, PRG stopped
carrying the Delmhorst line.</font></font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Bryan,</font></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Did you check
the moisture meters on plaster, too, or just on wood? We generally
use it on plaster to look for damp sections of wall, so I'm curious to
learn whether your test that found the Brit version superior included tests
on plaster. And is there any reason to think that one wouldn't be better
on both if it's better on one?</font></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Ralph</font></font></font></blockquote>
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:00:42 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
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In a message dated 11/7/2002 4:10:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> I have never been called to a project because of a dry condition.
> In our case we are often called to look at leaks where the people in the
> building think they have a leak because they suddenly woke up and saw the
> condition of their plaster, not connecting with the evidence any historical
> data to confirm that the leak stopped some time back when repairs or
> alterations last occured on the exterior. We also get called a lot for
> leaks related to bathrooms and plumbing with the client convinced that the
> leak is from outside. It does not say much for the "building" intelligence
> of property owners. For us a moisture meter is primarily used to determine
> if the evidence of a leak on interior plaster is active today or not. It
> appears that accuracy of the meter reading is not as imporant under these
> circumstances as it is in your experience.
>
> ][<en
>
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/7/2002 4:10:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR="#3333ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I have never been called to a project because of a dry condition.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">In our case we are often called to look at leaks where the people in the building think they have a leak because they suddenly woke up and saw the condition of their plaster, not connecting with the evidence any historical data to confirm that the leak stopped some time back when repairs or alterations last occured on the exterior. We also get called a lot for leaks related to bathrooms and plumbing with the client convinced that the leak is from outside. It does not say much for the "building" intelligence of property owners. For us a moisture meter is primarily used to determine if the evidence of a leak on interior plaster is active today or not. It appears that accuracy of the meter reading is not as imporant under these circumstances as it is in your experience.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">][<en</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:57:25 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Oh, God, has it come to this? I need to replace some of the...
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...smaller bits on my ca. 1960 Craftsman "automatic drill" (i.e. a multi-bit
hand drill, operated to mechanical advantage by a hidden gearing inside the
handle). I am not surprised that even "big"hardware stores in New York
(nope, haven't been down to Garrett Wade, but they are much too swell for
this, anyway) don't even recognize the tool. (The model I have is the one
with the clear casing, that lets you see the individual bits.)
What I am surprised about is that the only results on a Google search are for
either a) "antique" tools and b) vintage ads for similar tools. Hey, is this
another Perfectly Good Thing that has been devoured by the
rechargeable-battery monster? Ken? Heidi? Ralph? Hey, even Yukon guy?
Christopher Gray
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">...smaller bits on my ca. 1960 Craftsman "automatic drill" (i.e. a multi-bit hand drill, operated to mechanical advantage by a hidden gearing inside the handle). I am not surprised that even "big"hardware stores in New York (nope, haven't been down to Garrett Wade, but they are much too swell for this, anyway) don't even recognize the tool. (The model I have is the one with the clear casing, that lets you see the individual bits.) <BR>
<BR>
What I am surprised about is that the only results on a Google search are for either a) "antique" tools and b) vintage ads for similar tools. Hey, is this another Perfectly Good Thing that has been devoured by the rechargeable-battery monster? Ken? Heidi? Ralph? Hey, even Yukon guy? Christopher Gray </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:14:18 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Mascaro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I need to replace some of the...
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>...smaller bits on my ca. 1960 Craftsman "automatic drill" >
Chris - You're referring, of course to a 'push drill.'
I love mine, too.
$18 buys a set of bits at
http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/64002.html
JohnM
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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">>...smaller bits on my ca. 1960 Craftsman "automatic
drill" ></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Chris - You're referring, of course to a 'push
drill.'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I love mine, too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>$18 buys a set of bits at </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><A
href="http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/64002.html">http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/64002.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>JohnM</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:17:51 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Donald B. White" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Spray-on Siding
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Lots of Google results for this gunge. This one looked interesting.
http://www.gocarolinas.com/partners/wsoctv/consumer/sprayon_siding.html
I know i'm late but what the heck
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:18:01 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Nicholas Micros <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
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>From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
> screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
>Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:00:42 EST
>
>In a message dated 11/7/2002 4:10:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>[log in to unmask]
>writes:
>
> > I have never been called to a project because of a dry condition.
>
> > In our case we are often called to look at leaks where the people in the
> > building think they have a leak because they suddenly woke up and saw
>the
> > condition of their plaster, not connecting with the evidence any
>historical
> > data to confirm that the leak stopped some time back when repairs or
> > alterations last occured on the exterior. We also get called a lot for
> > leaks related to bathrooms and plumbing with the client convinced that
>the
> > leak is from outside. It does not say much for the "building"
>intelligence
> > of property owners. For us a moisture meter is primarily used to
>determine
> > if the evidence of a leak on interior plaster is active today or not. It
> > appears that accuracy of the meter reading is not as imporant under
>these
> > circumstances as it is in your experience.
> >
> > ][<en
> >
> >
Is this kind of like when you see light from a star at night and the light
really left that star
3 trillion light years before you actually saw it?
Einstein Micros
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:18:46 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
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In a message dated 11/7/2002 3:11:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, RLWALTR
writes:
> Yeah, but we don't wanna find ourselves in court up against Bryan, saying
> our Merstyer Meters are worthless pieces of shit.
When I 1st began in construction it was as an electrical gopher and my
Grandfather taught me to wet my finger and stick it in the empty light
socket. I'm the bright one in the family that did not enjoy electrical work,
despite the technical advances of Voltage meters. They called me Sparky for a
reason. We all know that common sense approaches to collecting of
information, and understanding just what information needs to be collected,
go beyond the world-view of lawyers.
Reminds me of the hour of deposition in which the young female lawyer was
running along a line convinced that the drainage mat, as mentioned in the
project documentation, that we had installed under the terrace pavers
implicated us in the leak at the drain body. Yes and no answers... eventually
she broke down and asked me right out, "So what connection is there between
the drainage mat and the drain." To which I replied, "None that I know of."
Took the wind out of that inquiry rather abruptly.
Now then, I had a much worse time with the young male lawyer who did not seem
to understand that I could go through life forgetting which building I had
visited and when and how many times and what I may or may not have seen or
said during such visit, five years ago. My memory is photographic, not anal.
I like my lawyer very much.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/7/2002 3:11:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, RLWALTR writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yeah, but we don't wanna find ourselves in court up against Bryan, saying our Merstyer Meters are worthless pieces of shit.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
When I 1st began in construction it was as an electrical gopher and my Grandfather taught me to wet my finger and stick it in the empty light socket. I'm the bright one in the family that did not enjoy electrical work, despite the technical advances of Voltage meters. They called me Sparky for a reason. We all know that common sense approaches to collecting of information, and understanding just what information needs to be collected, go beyond the world-view of lawyers.<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of the hour of deposition in which the young female lawyer was running along a line convinced that the drainage mat, as mentioned in the project documentation, that we had installed under the terrace pavers implicated us in the leak at the drain body. Yes and no answers... eventually she broke down and asked me right out, "So what connection is there between the drainage mat and the drain." To which I replied, "None that I know of." Took the wind out of that inquiry rather abruptly.<BR>
<BR>
Now then, I had a much worse time with the young male lawyer who did not seem to understand that I could go through life forgetting which building I had visited and when and how many times and what I may or may not have seen or said during such visit, five years ago. My memory is photographic, not anal.<BR>
<BR>
I like my lawyer very much.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:48:08 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: it's a heck of a world
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> Is this kind of like when you see light from a star at night and the light
> really left that star 3 trillion light years before you actually saw it?
Nick,
Super great to hear from you! Been thinking about you sculpting in
Switzerland. Got any pictures of new work? I assume you are building a local
PTN circle of stone masons for organizing the InternationaPTW 2010?
I like the lost light analogy. I am always amazed at the psychology of
building tenants and their relationships to their water leaks. Almost as
interesting as looking at the books on their shelves when they have them.
Your presence & services are missed in NY... but considering the cost of
insurance it is a good thing you are not here.
][<en
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Is this kind of like when you see light from a star at night and the light really left that star 3 trillion light years before you actually saw it?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Nick,<BR>
<BR>
Super great to hear from you! Been thinking about you sculpting in Switzerland. Got any pictures of new work? I assume you are building a local PTN circle of stone masons for organizing the InternationaPTW 2010?<BR>
<BR>
I like the lost light analogy. I am always amazed at the psychology of building tenants and their relationships to their water leaks. Almost as interesting as looking at the books on their shelves when they have them.<BR>
<BR>
Your presence & services are missed in NY... but considering the cost of insurance it is a good thing you are not here.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:41:13 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
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From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Time Travel
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It's been a hard week at the office, and only slightly related to being
the surviving hard-working staff person in a two-person program with a
staff vacancy.
The slight relationship is that the vacant workstation
(open-office-style-Dilbert-partitions), which is next to mine, has been
temporarily occupied this week by a new employee in another position
whose workstation is not yet ready.
He smokes. Not in the office of course, no one can smoke anywhere inside
a public building these days. It's not the smoke. It's the sound.=20
The cough. A little throat-clearing dry Grim Reaper's chuckle. Just like
my mother used to make. I can hear its echoes in my little boy's mind
across more than three decades...before it was silenced after the
unsuccessful surgery for lung cancer.=20
Sound. It can transport you.=20
_____________________________________
Dan Becker
Executive Director, RHDC
Raleigh Historic Districts Commission
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:51:18 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Time Travel
MIME-version: 1.0
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Absolutely! When I was in high school, we would go to the library and put
on an album in the record room, each of us wearing heavy duty headphones.
One day, we put on Pink Floyd (was it "Dark Side of the Moon"?). When the
song Breathe came on, I had to take off the headphones after a minute. The
sound was making me smell the laughing gas our dentist used to give us and I
was going under!
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Becker, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sound. It can transport you.
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:54:27 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lime Putty....Lime....& Slaking
I've decided to give my repointing skills a try. I've found a fairly
decent wall thats needs a litte tlc. The wall was built in the 1920's and
has a farily soft brick with a softer mortar. I am going to use an
equivalant of Type K mortar (1:4:15) or a Type O mortar (1:2:9).
I cannot find a supplier of lime putty here on my side of the state, I
would have to have it shipped from Toledo for a total cost of about $70 per
3 gal. pail (50 for the putty 20 for shipping). That doesn't appeal to me
very much.
My question becomes what is the best subsitute for the lime
putty...quicklime and water??? Is that a fair substitue for the lime
putty? And if it is, what is the proper slaking procedure for this
process? What is my m
ix ratio on the lime to water. How long do I need to
let it set before I can repoint?
Any help is most appreciated.
Nate Gillette
Grand Rapids, MI
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Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:29:27 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "John Callan, AIA" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: Lime Putty....Lime....& Slaking
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Nate,
There are others with greater expertise and experience, but 1920 seems kind of
late for lime mortar...or is this just for a fun experience?
-jc
Nate Gillette wrote:
> I've decided to give my repointing skills a try. I've found a fairly
> decent wall thats needs a litte tlc. The wall was built in the 1920's and
> has a farily soft brick with a softer mortar. I am going to use an
> equivalant of Type K mortar (1:4:15) or a Type O mortar (1:2:9).
>
> I cannot find a supplier of lime putty here on my side of the state, I
> would have to have it shipped from Toledo for a total cost of about $70 per
> 3 gal. pail (50 for the putty 20 for shipping). That doesn't appeal to me
> very much.
>
> My question becomes what is the best subsitute for the lime
> putty...quicklime and water??? Is that a fair substitue for the lime
> putty? And if it is, what is the proper slaking procedure for this
> process? What is my m
> ix ratio on the lime to water. How long do I need to
> let it set before I can repoint?
>
> Any help is most appreciated.
>
> Nate Gillette
> Grand Rapids, MI
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:34:30 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lime Putty....Lime....& Slaking
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> I've decided to give my repointing skills a try. I've found a fairly
> decent wall thats needs a litte tlc. The wall was built in the
1920's and
> has a farily soft brick with a softer mortar. I am going to use an
> equivalant of Type K mortar (1:4:15) or a Type O mortar (1:2:9).
>
> I cannot find a supplier of lime putty here on my side of the state, I
> would have to have it shipped from Toledo for a total cost of about
$70 per
> 3 gal. pail (50 for the putty 20 for shipping). That doesn't appeal
to me
> very much.
>
> My question becomes what is the best subsitute for the lime
> putty...quicklime and water??? Is that a fair substitue for the lime
> putty? And if it is, what is the proper slaking procedure for this
> process? What is my m
> ix ratio on the lime to water. How long do I need to
> let it set before I can repoint?
>
> Any help is most appreciated.
>
> Nate Gillette
> Grand Rapids, MI
>
> --
Dear Nate,
The money you are about to be saved should go directly toward your
PINHEAD dues. Make checks payable to Ralph.
First, I agree with jc that 1920's sounds a little late for lime
mortar, but Type O would have been widely used. To make a type O or K
you will need portland cement type I, ASTM C-144 mason's sand and lime.
You can buy lime putty for $50-70-110 a bucket. Or you can go to Home
Depot and get a bag of Type S hydrated lime for about 4 bucks. Add
about 23% water. MAGIC! It is now lime putty.
Someday some shameless marketing scam artist is going to go down to
Home Depot, buy a whole bunch of $4 lime and $2 buckets, dump the lime
buckets, label it as "Instant Lime Putty - Just Add Water", and sell it
for $50 a pail.
In the words of another Connecticut Yankee, "There's a sucker born
every minute".
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:39:11 -0800
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Pointing Tobacco Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
During the Halloween craziness, someone used a pellet gun to shoot out =
most of the 125 year old panes of one of the windows in my grist mill. =
While replacing them today, the original glazing points saw daylight for =
the first time in more than a century, and they turned out to be little =
triangles apparently cut from a tobacco tin. =20
In order to make an accurate restoration, my questions are: What kind of =
tobacco had/has a white tin with gold letters and occasional little blue =
flowers like Forget-Me-Nots? What is the history of glazing points?
The original workmanship from the 1877 packhorse era here showed great =
economy. Some of the larger wedge shaped glazing points were pressed =
all the way through the wood framing so as to hold two panes at once =
with one point!
There was other teen craziness in the little nearby town, and the =
newspaper reported that when one youth was returned home by police, his =
mother said at the door, "I thought vandalism was what this event was =
all about !?!"
cp in bc
beyond Hope, if you look at a BC map
PS: Watch out for a special BC wine in stores soon.
The newspaper here reported today that two men died at a local winery =
when they fell into a giant wine making vat and drowned. The article =
also said "Members of the winemaking industry banded together yesterday =
and vowed to help Manola's widow, Anna, get the wine to store shelves, =
no matter what the cost." This sounds like one for Jay Leno.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C289E3.EB39A400
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>During the Halloween craziness, someone =
used a=20
pellet gun to shoot out most of the 125 year old panes of one of =
the=20
windows in my grist mill. While replacing them =
today, the=20
original glazing points saw daylight for the first time in more than a =
century,=20
and they turned out to be little triangles apparently cut from =
a tobacco=20
tin. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In order to make an accurate =
restoration, my=20
questions are: What kind of tobacco had/has a white tin with gold =
letters and=20
occasional little blue flowers like Forget-Me-Nots? What is =
the=20
history of glazing points?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The original workmanship from the=20
1877 packhorse era here showed great economy. Some of =
the=20
larger wedge shaped glazing points were pressed all the way through the =
wood=20
framing so as to hold two panes at once with one point!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There was other teen craziness in the =
little nearby=20
town, and the newspaper reported that when one youth was returned =
home by=20
police, his mother said at the door, "I thought vandalism was what =
this=20
event was all about !?!"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>beyond Hope, if you look at a BC=20
map</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS: Watch out for a special BC =
wine in stores=20
soon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The newspaper here reported today that =
two men died=20
at a local winery when they fell into a giant wine making vat and=20
drowned. The article also said "Members of the =
winemaking=20
industry banded together yesterday and vowed to help Manola's widow, =
Anna, get=20
the wine to store shelves, no matter what the cost." This =
sounds=20
like one for Jay Leno.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:15:10 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fan mail from some flounder?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The New York Times of 1.30.1932 reported that William Van Alen, returning
from a visit to the Ecole des Beaux-Arts to New York, was arguing about the
Gulf Stream with his colleagues on board. He took a lunch menu for the day
- June 17, 1931 - and penciled an offer of a $5 reward to anyone who returned
the note to him at his office at the Chrysler Building, which he had designed
in 1929.
Late in January 1932 the menu was returned to him with a cover note from
Colin Campbell, of Argyllshire, Scotland, reporting that it had been found on
January 10th at the south end of the island of Tiree.
In Auust of 1931 Van Alen had settled his $740,000 suit for fees against
Chrysler - but for $110,000.
Respectfully submitted,
Now I See From The Map That Cuyler Is No Closer To The Yukon Than I Am To St.
Louis -- But "Hope Guy" Isn't Very Catchy
--part1_19f.b9af1a9.2b02e57e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">The New York Times of 1.30.1932 reported that William Van Alen, returning from a visit to the Ecole des Beaux-Arts to New York, was arguing about the Gulf Stream with his colleagues on board. He took a lunch menu for the day - June 17, 1931 - and penciled an offer of a $5 reward to anyone who returned the note to him at his office at the Chrysler Building, which he had designed in 1929.
<BR>
<BR>Late in January 1932 the menu was returned to him with a cover note from Colin Campbell, of Argyllshire, Scotland, reporting that it had been found on January 10th at the south end of the island of Tiree.
<BR>
<BR>In Auust of 1931 Van Alen had settled his $740,000 suit for fees against Chrysler - but for $110,000.
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully submitted,
<BR>Now I See From The Map That Cuyler Is No Closer To The Yukon Than I Am To St. Louis -- But "Hope Guy" Isn't Very Catchy </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:38:50 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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What kind of tobacco had/has a white tin with gold letters and occasional
little blue flowers like Forget-Me-Nots?
Cuyler,
You might try the folks at the Henry Ford Museum on this one, though I'm not
too sure if Henry collected tobacco tins or not. Otherwise there has to be a
tobacco ephemera junkie somewhere.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">What kind of tobacco had/has a white tin with gold letters and occasional little blue flowers like Forget-Me-Nots? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Cuyler,<BR>
<BR>
You might try the folks at the Henry Ford Museum on this one, though I'm not too sure if Henry collected tobacco tins or not. Otherwise there has to be a tobacco ephemera junkie somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:45:44 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: mitch wilds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Cuyler,
Here's a site with links to a couple of Tarheel tobacco museums and a
tobacco historian.
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us/ctb/toblinks.htm
sign me,
Tobacco Money Paid for this Computer
--
F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
Restoration Branch
State Historic Preservation Office
919/733-6547
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us
***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction of public
business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:10:23 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Candice Brashears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: [forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
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anyone help on this?
In a message dated 11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Subj:[forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
> Date:11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic
> Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design. I'm
> doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic
> anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this
> sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have
> been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a
> significant property or you know of some literature that follows such a
> conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very much
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
> Steve Sheffield
> MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation
> Savannah College of Art and Design
>
--part1_75.2003fdc.2b03b74f_alt_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">anyone help on this? <BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:<B>[forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation </B><BR>
Date:11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time<BR>
From:<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>
To:<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>
<I>Sent from the Internet </I><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi folks,<BR>
<BR>
My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design. I'm doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a significant property or you know of some literature that follows such a conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very much appreciate it.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Steve Sheffield<BR>
MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation<BR>
Savannah College of Art and Design<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:35:03 -0500
From: <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: [forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
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Hi folks,
My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design. I'm doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a significant property or you know of some literature that follows such a conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very much appreciate it.
Thanks
Steve Sheffield
MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation
Savannah College of Art and Design
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:30:55 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lime Mortar
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Have fun, Nate. I might so challenge myself some day. Meanwhile, the
masonry contractor for Hill Auditorium, a 1913 Classical/Tapestry brick
building, is adjusting to the lime mortar spec, and doing just as you
describe, and as confirmed by Michael. We're getting the mortar tested
as it ages, and the strength has increased from its initial set around
400 psi up to 1100 psi after 90 days, and still counting. The mix
design is 1/4 part portland cement, 2 parts lime, and 7 parts sand to
match original pointing mortar.
The only trouble we've had is getting the contractor to clean off
pointing residue promptly to avoid aggressive acid washing of the
slow-curing mortar.
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
219 1/2 N. Main Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
[log in to unmask]
www.quinnevans.com
v 734.663.5888
f 734.663.5044
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:43:37 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J. Bryan Blundell" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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Have you tried an internet search on the word anaglypta?
It is interesting how much stuff pops up.
=====================
Candice Brashears wrote:
> anyone help on this?
>
> In a message dated 11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>> Subj:[forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
>> Date:11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time
>> From:[log in to unmask]
>> To:[log in to unmask]
>> Sent from the Internet
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic
>> Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design.
>> I'm doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic
>> anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where
>> this sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who
>> have been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on
>> a significant property or you know of some literature that follows such
>> a conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very
>> much appreciate it.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Steve Sheffield
>> MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation
>> Savannah College of Art and Design
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:35:03 -0500
> From: <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Hi folks,
>
> My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic
> Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design. I'm
> doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic
> anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this
> sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have
> been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a
> significant property or you know of some literature that follows such a
> conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very much
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
> Steve Sheffield
> MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation
> Savannah College of Art and Design
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to forum-l as: [log in to unmask]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [log in to unmask]
>
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Have you tried an internet search on the word <font face="Arial"><font size=-1><b>anaglypta</b>?</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>It is interesting how much stuff pops
up.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>=====================</font></font>
<p>Candice Brashears wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>anyone help on this?</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>In a message dated 11/13/02 8:19:34
AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Subj:<b>[forum-l]
historic anaglypta conservation</b></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Date:11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard
Time</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>From:<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>To:<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></font></font>
<br><i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Sent from the Internet</font></font></i>
<br>
<br>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Hi folks,</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm
a graduate student in the Historic Preservation curriculum at the Savannah
College of Art and Design. I'm doing a research paper for a
class on the conservation of historic anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty
finding a case study where this sort of work has been done. If there
are any of you out there who have been involved with the restoration or
conservation of anaglypta on a significant property or you know of some
literature that follows such a conservation could you please point me to
some leads? I would very much appreciate it.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Thanks</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Steve Sheffield</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Savannah College of Art and Design</font></font></blockquote>
<p>
<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>[forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:35:03 -0500</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b><[log in to unmask]></nobr>
<br><nobr><b>To: </b>[log in to unmask]</nobr>
<pre VARIABLE WRAP>Hi folks,
My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design. I'm doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a significant property or you know of some literature that follows such a conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very much appreciate it.
Thanks
Steve Sheffield
MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation
Savannah College of Art and Design
---
You are currently subscribed to forum-l as: [log in to unmask]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [log in to unmask]</pre>
</blockquote>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:51:17 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_147.28861a0.2b03c0e5_boundary"
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> Tobacco Money Paid for this Computer
I smell a lawsuit.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Tobacco Money Paid for this Computer</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B><BR>
I smell a lawsuit.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</B></FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:58:27 EST
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lime Mortar
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The only trouble we've had is getting the contractor to clean off
pointing residue promptly to avoid aggressive acid washing of the
slow-curing mortar.
Unfortunately this is the only method most of these morons know. This
mentality of course comes from the cheap mass produced housing of today. I'm
sure they are using an almost soup consistency for the repointing mix. Are
they using grout bags to repoint with and wire brushes to clean the brick?
Steve
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The only trouble we've had is getting the contractor to clean off<BR>
pointing residue promptly to avoid aggressive acid washing of the<BR>
slow-curing mortar.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Unfortunately this is the only method most of these morons know. This mentality of course comes from the cheap mass produced housing of today. I'm sure they are using an almost soup consistency for the repointing mix. Are they using grout bags to repoint with and wire brushes to clean the brick?<BR>
<BR>
Steve<BR>
<BR>
Steve</B></FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:27:08 -0500
Reply-To: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5\" sheetrock
screw!" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Stupendous Architectural Salvage Auction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Knock your socks off auction November 20 in Raleigh, NC. Salvage from
1913 Commercial National Bank Building (imploded by the philistines in
1990). Check this link; be sure to click on the "photo gallery" link to
see more detail for the items available (gargoyles, marble, paneling,
railings, ceilings, hardware, and more, much much more):
http://maxanet.com/cgi-bin/mndetails.cgi?little9
To get to their homepage with navigation bar, click here:
http://www.llauctions.com
Pass this around to your big city friends with checkbooks; let's have a
PigNic in Raleigh. Proceeds benefit RHDC, plus the local non-profit
preservation organization and local city museum.
___________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Have nothing in your house that
Raleigh Historic you do not know to be useful
Districts Commission or believe to be beautiful."
[log in to unmask] -- William Morris =20
919/890-3678
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:17:45 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Molly Van Meter <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Hayles & Howe, Inc.
Subject: Re: [forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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We've been called upon to replicate it in very low-relief plaster.
That's my only encounter with the stuff.Best wishes, Molly
Director of Restoration
Hayles & Howe, Inc. Hayles & Howe, LTD
3500 Parkdale Avenue 25 Picton Street
Baltimore, Maryland Montpelier, Bristol
21211 USA BS6 5PZ UK
410 462 0986 +44 924 6673
410 462 2879 Fax +44 924 3928 Fax
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
<http://www.haylesandhowe.com/> www.haylesandhowe.com/
Maryland Col*League, League of Historic American Theatres
<http://www.lhat.org/> www.lhat.org/
Chair, Plastering & Decorative Finishes Committee, Preservation Trades
Network
www/ptn.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: It's a heck of a world when a guy can't carry a 1.5" sheetrock
screw! [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Candice Brashears
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Fwd: [forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
anyone help on this?
In a message dated 11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Subj:[forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation
Date:11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:[log in to unmask]
To:[log in to unmask]
Sent from the Internet
Hi folks,
My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic
Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design. I'm
doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of historic
anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this
sort of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have
been involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a
significant property or you know of some literature that follows such a
conservation could you please point me to some leads? I would very much
appreciate it.
Thanks
Steve Sheffield
MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation
Savannah College of Art and Design
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"
FAMILY=3DSANSSERIF><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";
color:blue;font-weight:bold'>We’ve been called upon to replicate =
it in
very low-relief plaster. That’s my only encounter with the =
stuff…Best
wishes, Molly</span></font></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:blue;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>Director of Restoration</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>Hayles & Howe, =
Inc. &nb=
sp; Hayles
& Howe, LTD</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>3500 Parkdale =
Avenue</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'> &=
nbsp; </span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>25 Picton Street</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>Baltimore</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'>, </span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'>Maryland</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'> &=
nbsp; =
</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>Montpelier</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'>, </span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'>Bristol</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>21211 </span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'>USA</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'> =
=
BS6
5PZ </span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville =
Old Face";
color:navy'>UK</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>410 462 =
0986 &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; +44
924 6673</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'>410 462 2879 =
Fax =
+44
924 3928 Fax</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy'><a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"><font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:normal'>[log in to unmask]</sp=
an></font></a></span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy;font-weight:normal'><a =
href=3D"http://www.haylesandhowe.com/"><font
size=3D2><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>www.haylesandhowe.com/</span></font></a></span=
></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
=
color:navy;font-weight:normal'>Maryland</span></font></b></strong><strong=
><b><font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy;font-weight:normal'> =
</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
=
color:navy;font-weight:normal'>Col</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><=
font
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy;font-weight:normal'>*League, League of Historic American =
Theatres</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy;font-weight:normal'><a href=3D"http://www.lhat.org/"><font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>www.lhat.org/</span></font></a></span></font><=
/b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy;font-weight:normal'>Chair, Plastering & Decorative =
Finishes
Committee, Preservation Trades Network</span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Baskerville Old Face"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";
color:navy;font-weight:normal'>www/ptn.org/</span></font></b></strong></p=
>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:blue;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> It's a heck of a =
world when
a guy can't carry a 1.5" sheetrock screw!
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Candice Brashears<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November =
13, 2002
9:10 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
[log in to unmask]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Fwd: [forum-l] =
historic
anaglypta conservation</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>anyone help on this? <br>
<br>
In a message dated 11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Subj:<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>[forum-l] historic anaglypta conservation </span></b><br>
Date:11/13/02 8:19:34 AM Eastern Standard Time<br>
From:<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><b=
r>
To:<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
st.org</a><br>
<i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>Sent from the Internet =
</span></i><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi folks,<br>
<br>
My name is Steve Sheffield and I'm a graduate student in the Historic
Preservation curriculum at the Savannah College of Art and Design.
I'm doing a research paper for a class on the conservation of =
historic
anaglypta and I'm having some difficulty finding a case study where this =
sort
of work has been done. If there are any of you out there who have =
been
involved with the restoration or conservation of anaglypta on a =
significant
property or you know of some literature that follows such a conservation =
could
you please point me to some leads? I would very much appreciate =
it.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Steve Sheffield<br>
MFA Candidate, Historic Preservation<br>
Savannah College of Art and Design</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:03:55 -0500
Reply-To: deb bledsoe <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: deb bledsoe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: big meteor shower coming
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Pinhead astronomers (you know who you are)
cross-posted from one of my caving groups -- where will you be on Nov. =
19 ? ......
best from "debra"
------------
After the meteor shower last year that some of you watched from GSP, I =
thought someone might be interested in this.
http://www.space.com/leonids/
Leonid Meteor Shower 2002 - North America=20
An early morning outburst is expected to generate a sharp peak of =
activity at around 5:30 a.m. ET on Nov. 19.
"I estimate folks in the U.S. should see about one Leonid every 6-10 =
seconds near the time of the peak," Cooke said, having taken into =
account the effect of the Moon. Residents of Canada and Mexico will see =
this outburst, too.
Eastern residents will get the best view as the outburst comes just =
before dawn there, when the Leonid radiant is high in the sky and the =
Moon is low in the west. Expect up to 10 shooting stars per minute =
during the peak, an hourly rate of 600. Seasoned meteor watchers with =
optimal conditions might see rates briefly climb as high as 2,000 per =
hour.
Predicted peak times vary by longitude (your east-west location). Be =
warned: Meteor forecasting is a young discipline, and times may vary =
from the forecasts. It's wise to go out 1-2 hours before your predicted =
peak, and stay at least that long afterward or until it is daylight. The =
hours from midnight to dawn are best regardless of where you live, =
though a handful of meteors will be visible before midnight.
Avid observers should also plan to get out on the mornings of Nov. 17 =
and 18, when rates will be picking up. This offers a good chance to =
practice and to scope a good location; this year, you'll want a tall =
obstruction - a tree, building or mountain - to block the Moon, which =
will be in the west.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[log in to unmask]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pinhead astronomers (you know who you=20
are)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cross-posted from one of my caving =
groups -- where=20
will you be on Nov. 19 ? ......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>best from "debra"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>After the meteor shower last year that some of you =
watched from=20
GSP, I thought someone might be interested in this.<BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><B>
<P></P></B></FONT></FONT>
<P><A=20
href=3D"http://www.space.com/leonids/">http://www.space.com/leonids/</A><=
BR></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 =
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><B>
<P>Leonid Meteor Shower 2002 - North America </P></B></FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2>An=20
early morning outburst is expected to generate a sharp peak of activity =
at=20
around 5:30 a.m. ET on Nov. 19.</FONT></FONT>
<P></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 =
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>"I estimate folks in the U.S. should see about one Leonid every =
6-10=20
seconds near the time of the peak," Cooke said, having taken into =
account the=20
effect of the Moon. Residents of Canada and Mexico will see this =
outburst,=20
too.</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 =
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Eastern residents will get the best view as the outburst comes =
just=20
before dawn there, when the Leonid radiant is high in the sky and the =
Moon is=20
low in the west. Expect up to 10 shooting stars per minute during the =
peak, an=20
hourly rate of 600. Seasoned meteor watchers with optimal conditions =
might see=20
rates briefly climb as high as 2,000 per hour.<BR></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 =
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Predicted peak times vary by longitude (your east-west =
location). Be=20
warned: Meteor forecasting is a young discipline, and times may vary =
from the=20
forecasts. It’s wise to go out 1-2 hours before your predicted =
peak, and stay at=20
least that long afterward or until it is daylight. The hours from =
midnight to=20
dawn are best regardless of where you live, though a handful of meteors =
will be=20
visible before midnight.</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" color=3D#333333 =
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Avid observers should also plan to get out on the mornings of =
Nov. 17 and=20
18, when rates will be picking up. This offers a good chance to practice =
and to=20
scope a good location; this year, you’ll want a tall obstruction =
– a tree,=20
building or mountain – to block the Moon, which will be in the=20
west.</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><BR></P><BR><BR><TT>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20
to:<BR>[log in to unmask]<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your =
use of=20
Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of =
Service</A>.</TT>=20
<BR></BODY></HTML>
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<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:03:52 -0800
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
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Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 12:39 AM
Subject: Pointing Tobacco Question
What is the history of glazing points?
Well, once again the amazing happened, something that seems all too =
common, but never expected, when dealing with this history business! I =
asked the question on BP and received some very helpful suggestions =
about tobacco tins that have led me on some merry web chases, but not =
much about glazing points. =20
Then, this morning an old gentleman walked into the museum with an old =
wooden artefact he is restoring, wanting to ask an opinion about a =
missing piece. The notion of it missing a little mirror was suggested, =
and while proceeding through the conversation, he began to give me a =
little lecture on the history of mirroring, and that led to the history =
of sheet glass, and that led to a history of window glazing, and that =
led to a little lecture on the history of glazing points and puttying =
techniques. It seems that he was a glazier all his working life, =
apprenticing in the old tradition and even working at the plant where =
the float glass technique was developed. He exudes a classic passion =
for his profession and an eagerness to share it with anyone who will =
listen. I was all ears, wanting to give many thanks to the source that =
makes these meaningful coincidences happen.
Stuff like this seems to happen with uncanny frequency around here while =
I work on the mill restoration, over and over there are coincidences of =
timing when things are needed. I suspect that it is not all that =
uncommon in doing historic research and restoration but perhaps not =
often talked about. The only way I can describe it is that it feels as =
if a good spirit is looking after the needs of the place. Do you know =
what I am talking about? Is this kind of thing common in your work?
cp in bc
thanking everyone for the suggestions about tobacco tins
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<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 12, 2002 12:39 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Pointing Tobacco Question</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =20
What is the history of glazing=20
points?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, once again the amazing happened, =
something=20
that seems all too common, but never expected, when dealing =
with this=20
history business! I asked the question on BP and =
received some=20
very helpful suggestions about tobacco tins that have led me on some =
merry web=20
chases, but not much about glazing points. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then, this morning an old gentleman =
walked into the=20
museum with an old wooden artefact he is restoring, wanting to ask an =
opinion=20
about a missing piece. The notion of it missing a little =
mirror was=20
suggested, and while proceeding through the conversation, he began to =
give me a=20
little lecture on the history of mirroring, and that led to the =
history=20
of sheet glass, and that led to a history of window glazing, and =
that led=20
to a little lecture on the history of glazing points and puttying=20
techniques. It seems that he was a glazier all his working =
life,=20
apprenticing in the old tradition and even working at the plant where =
the float=20
glass technique was developed. He exudes a classic =
passion for=20
his profession and an eagerness to share it with anyone who will=20
listen. I was all ears, wanting to give many thanks to the =
source=20
that makes these meaningful coincidences happen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stuff like this seems to happen with =
uncanny=20
frequency around here while I work on the mill restoration, over and =
over there=20
are coincidences of timing when things are needed. I suspect =
that it=20
is not all that uncommon in doing historic research and =
restoration but=20
perhaps not often talked about. The only way I can =
describe it=20
is that it feels as if a good spirit is looking after the =
needs of the=20
place. Do you know what I am talking about? Is =
this kind=20
of thing common in your work?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanking everyone for the suggestions =
about tobacco=20
tins</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:14:54 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Glazing points and synectics
In-Reply-To: <000201c28bc5$4a3683a0$242134d1@default>
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"Is this kind of thing common in your (our) work?" cp in bc
I am very excited you brought up this subject. I can't think of a
better group than this for that subject and it is worth a book. I have
heard many "coincidence" stories and had quite a few good and
awe-inspiring things happen over the years. I do believe there is a
higher incidence of good luck if one is doing good things. I have
already used your tobacco tin indulgence to inspire a few skeptics of
the importance of good and thorough restorations. Recognizing ourselves
as stewards of small but vital parts of a great whole and continuum is a
start.
Another belief I have is that the synectic method has a lot of merit;
there is almost nothing that we encounter daily that does not help our
research and process. And many times the answers lie in our own back
yard. (Thank you Dorothy and Dan.)
Maybe all our thinking of little floral tins (you as the catalyst) has
focused enough cosmic energy to draw these things out and to you. Can
you share with us a little of his wisdom about points?
Great work.
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: Concise Headers Rule
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cuyler
Page
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 12:39 AM
Subject: Pointing Tobacco Question
What is the history of glazing points?
Well, once again the amazing happened, something that seems all too
common, but never expected, when dealing with this history business! I
asked the question on BP and received some very helpful suggestions
about tobacco tins that have led me on some merry web chases, but not
much about glazing points.
Then, this morning an old gentleman walked into the museum with an old
wooden artefact he is restoring, wanting to ask an opinion about a
missing piece. The notion of it missing a little mirror was suggested,
and while proceeding through the conversation, he began to give me a
little lecture on the history of mirroring, and that led to the history
of sheet glass, and that led to a history of window glazing, and that
led to a little lecture on the history of glazing points and puttying
techniques. It seems that he was a glazier all his working life,
apprenticing in the old tradition and even working at the plant where
the float glass technique was developed. He exudes a classic passion
for his profession and an eagerness to share it with anyone who will
listen. I was all ears, wanting to give many thanks to the source that
makes these meaningful coincidences happen.
Stuff like this seems to happen with uncanny frequency around here while
I work on the mill restoration, over and over there are coincidences of
timing when things are needed. I suspect that it is not all that
uncommon in doing historic research and restoration but perhaps not
often talked about. The only way I can describe it is that it feels as
if a good spirit is looking after the needs of the place. Do you know
what I am talking about? Is this kind of thing common in your work?
cp in bc
thanking everyone for the suggestions about tobacco tins
--Boundary_(ID_7vCYyFjxVCHBA89XczXgAg)
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>"</SPAN>Is
this kind of thing common in your <SPAN class=921525010-14112002>(our)
</SPAN>work?<SPAN class=921525010-14112002>"</SPAN><SPAN
class=921525010-14112002> cp in bc</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>I am very excited you brought
up this subject. I can't think of a better group than this for that
subject and it is worth a book. I have heard many "coincidence" stories
and had quite a few good and awe-inspiring things happen over the years. I
do believe there is a higher incidence of good luck if one is doing good
things. I have already used your tobacco tin indulgence to inspire a few
skeptics of the importance of good and thorough restorations. Recognizing
ourselves as stewards of small but vital parts of a great whole and continuum is
a start.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>Another belief I have is that
the synectic method has a lot of merit; there is almost nothing that we
encounter daily that does not help our research and process. And many
times the answers lie in our own back yard. (Thank you Dorothy and
Dan.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>Maybe all our thinking of
little floral tins (you as the catalyst) has focused enough cosmic energy to
draw these things out and to you. Can you share with us a little of his
wisdom about points?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>Great work.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>Best,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=921525010-14112002>Leland</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Concise Headers
Rule [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Cuyler Page<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:04
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Pointing Tobacco Question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 12, 2002 12:39 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Pointing Tobacco Question</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
What is the history of glazing
points?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well, once again the amazing happened, something
that seems all too common, but never expected, when dealing
with this history business! I asked the question on
BP and received some very helpful suggestions about tobacco tins that
have led me on some merry web chases, but not much about glazing
points. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then, this morning an old gentleman walked into
the museum with an old wooden artefact he is restoring, wanting to ask an
opinion about a missing piece. The notion of it missing a little
mirror was suggested, and while proceeding through the conversation, he began
to give me a little lecture on the history of mirroring, and that led to
the history of sheet glass, and that led to a history of window glazing,
and that led to a little lecture on the history of glazing points and puttying
techniques. It seems that he was a glazier all his working life,
apprenticing in the old tradition and even working at the plant where the
float glass technique was developed. He exudes a classic
passion for his profession and an eagerness to share it with anyone who will
listen. I was all ears, wanting to give many thanks to the source
that makes these meaningful coincidences happen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stuff like this seems to happen with uncanny
frequency around here while I work on the mill restoration, over and over
there are coincidences of timing when things are needed. I suspect
that it is not all that uncommon in doing historic research and
restoration but perhaps not often talked about. The only
way I can describe it is that it feels as if a good spirit
is looking after the needs of the place. Do you know what I
am talking about? Is this kind of thing common in your
work?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>thanking everyone for the suggestions about
tobacco tins</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_7vCYyFjxVCHBA89XczXgAg)--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:35:37 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cuyler Page
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:04 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Pointing Tobacco Question
>=20
>=20
> it feels as if a good=20
> spirit is looking after the needs of the place. Do you know=20
> what I am talking about? Is this kind of thing common in your work?
Yes, but I think the tension between ying and yang exists. These
spirits...were they on break when the youthfully vigorous young
slingshot marksmen came riding by and sent you on this most interesting
quest for the history of glazing?
dan glad you can move on to find the silver lining becker
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:02:19 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lime mortar
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Steve asked: Are they using grout bags to repoint with and wire
brushes to clean the brick?
No grout bags, and no wire brushes. The "misunderstanding" came from
our spec which said to wait 30 days to clean the building after
completing repairs. They took that to mean waiting 30 days to clean off
the mortar residue, even though the spec also says to clean the work
area immediately. So, now we are fine; it's just the first repairs
that were not cleaned in good time. You all can probably see the humor
in this... The best thing is confounding everyone with the increasing
strength of what everyone has been calling a "weak" mortar, when in fact
it will beat that of the typical Type N cement-lime mortar, probably
topping out at 1400 psi or so...
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
219 1/2 N. Main Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
[log in to unmask]
www.quinnevans.com
v 734.663.5888
f 734.663.5044
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:16:14 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Glass Geezer
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 11/14/2002 5:03:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> . Do you know what I am talking about? Is this kind of
> thing common in your work?
Cuyler,
Yes, I know what you're talking about, and although it has happened, it's by no means common. At least not to me, although I don't doubt that other people have all the luck.
Have fun with your informant--guys like him are wonderful sources who we will soon see the end of.
Ralph
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:33:42 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: Cavity Wall Construction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Surveying a building in NYC- maybe 100 yrs old corner of 58th & Lex.
the client is convinced that the outside wythe is separating from the
inner double brick and in danger of collapsing on 58th St.
I explain that no that's just a cavity wall construction, that's how
it's done-
He asks why and I'm really not sure...
Why is it done that way???
Drew
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tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:01:07 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cavity Wall Construction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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True cavity wall construction is generally a post WWII technology. If the
building is 100-years old there may be a few voids but the collar joint
should mostly be filled with mortar. If you have a true cavity wall, I would
suspect problems or a unique condition. I suggest looking into it further.
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Drew Diaz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cavity Wall Construction
Surveying a building in NYC- maybe 100 yrs old corner of 58th & Lex.
the client is convinced that the outside wythe is separating from the
inner double brick and in danger of collapsing on 58th St.
I explain that no that's just a cavity wall construction, that's how
it's done-
He asks why and I'm really not sure...
Why is it done that way???
Drew
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:15:11 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cavity Wall Construction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Eric's suggestion is a good one; I agree that cavity construction on a
3-wythe 100-year old brick wall would be an unusual situation. But to
answer your question, Drew, the purpose of the space in modern cavity
wall construction is to provide a path to direct condensation out of the
wall. It allows you to control where the dew point occurs in the system
and where condensation happens, and through the use of weep holes and
proper flashing, direct the water out of the wall to the exterior. When
sloppy masons fill the space with mortar, it affects the performance,
obviously. The air space is also given consideration in analyzing the
energy performance of the wall; it adds an insulation value.
__________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! Now
Raleigh Historic I have a brain!"
Districts Commission - Scarecrow
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:29:07 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: [Fwd: Cavity Wall Construction]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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"J.A. Drew Diaz" wrote:
> 100 yrs just a WAG.
> Anywhere but Manhattan this building would have been put out of it's
> misery...
>
> "Becker, Dan" wrote:
>
> > Eric's suggestion is a good one; I agree that cavity construction on a
> > 3-wythe 100-year old brick wall would be an unusual situation. But to
> > answer your question, Drew, the purpose of the space in modern cavity
> > wall construction is to provide a path to direct condensation out of the
> > wall. It allows you to control where the dew point occurs in the system
> > and where condensation happens, and through the use of weep holes and
> > proper flashing, direct the water out of the wall to the exterior. When
> > sloppy masons fill the space with mortar, it affects the performance,
> > obviously. The air space is also given consideration in analyzing the
> > energy performance of the wall; it adds an insulation value.
> >
>
> that's basically what I recall from classes in the dawn of time-
> someone recently suggested it was because there were lumpers putting up the
> core
> and finishers putting up the facade..
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email;internet:[log in to unmask]
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note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------E9CB0BC7EDD538B5177342B3--
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:04:12 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: Cavity Wall Construction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------527C870CCD9474D84B83103D"
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--------------527C870CCD9474D84B83103D
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"Hammarberg, Eric" wrote:
> True cavity wall construction is generally a post WWII technology. If the
> building is 100-years old there may be a few voids but the collar joint
> should mostly be filled with mortar.
Again- I'm thinking it is entirely possible that the collar joint has so
deteriorated that the masonry has turned to dust, and like sands in the
hourglass dropped into the basement or out the weep holes onto the street.
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tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
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version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:04:49 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: Cavity Wall Construction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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oops not the masonry but the mortar has turned to dust
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n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------4E2DF8324FB196DE3B93C9D6--
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:40:11 -0800
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Glass Geezer
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This guy sounds a bit like my Dad. He used the material at hand, no matter
what it was--hey wait, don't throw out those old shoes, I might need a
piece of leather someday and they could come in handy!!!!!!! That's why we
have a garage full of old tools and parts to this and that. If I am doing
a repair in the house and start looking for anything Dad will ask what I'm
looking for and then say that there used to be some around somewhere. Then
he goes to the garage to look. I know it's there but there is so much
stuff you can never find anything. We have gotten the wagon unloaded--it
was full of wood, so now we can get it out and then the hoeing out has GOT
to begin.
Saw Rory Brennan in the grocery store tonight. Invited him by to see our
new outdoor furnace. Ruth
At 10:16 AM -0500 11/14/02, Ralph Walter wrote:
>In a message dated 11/14/2002 5:03:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>[log in to unmask] writes:
>
>> . Do you know what I am talking about? Is this kind of
>> thing common in your work?
>
>Cuyler,
>
>Yes, I know what you're talking about, and although it has happened, it's
>by no means common. At least not to me, although I don't doubt that other
>people have all the luck.
>
>Have fun with your informant--guys like him are wonderful sources who we
>will soon see the end of.
>
>Ralph
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Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:02:46 EST
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Glass Geezer - protective holster for my wood chisels....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_ac.31394e23.2b065886_boundary"
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In a message dated 11/15/02 7:46:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
<<hey don't throw out those old shoes, I might need a piece of leather someday
>>
!!!!!Ruth, as a matter of fact, I had given up trying to find something ready
made, and I need to make some small protective wraps for my chisel points and
I could use a couple pieces of very supple leather --- suede best, but I
don't want to be too pushy. (Recently my wife just threw the chisels into
the tool box -- points first!!!!) I thought I had some old chaps I could cut
up, but some idiot threw them out. The pieces I need would be about 5"x5"
each - you can send them collect. Or, just send your Dad. He can stay
until my son returns from sailing off Queensland, around December 15th.
Best, Christopher Gray
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/15/02 7:46:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR><<</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">hey don't throw out those old shoes, I might need a piece of leather someday>></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">!!!!!Ruth, as a matter of fact, I had given up trying to find something ready made, and I need to make some small protective wraps for my chisel points and I could use a couple pieces of very supple leather --- suede best, but I don't want to be too pushy. (Recently my wife just threw the chisels into the tool box -- points first!!!!) I thought I had some old chaps I could cut up, but some idiot threw them out. The pieces I need would be about 5"x5" each - you can send them collect. Or, just send your Dad. He can stay until my son returns from sailing off Queensland, around December 15th.
<BR>
<BR>Best, Christopher Gray</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:09:57 EST
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Hicks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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if any one cares.......sob..... my new cell # is 917-575-8545
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">if any one cares.......sob..... my new cell # is 917-575-8545<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:21:39 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
MIME-Version: 1.0
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isn't that 575 the prefix for the prepay phones you buy @ 7-11????
--------------683D31A25FEA625BC1737E21
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name="ddedge.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for J.A. Drew Diaz
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begin:vcard
n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------683D31A25FEA625BC1737E21--
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:48:59 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
Aren't those similar in nature to single-use cameras?
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Drew Diaz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
isn't that 575 the prefix for the prepay phones you buy @ 7-11????
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:36:30 EST
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_7d.30d1a5ae.2b06a6be_boundary"
--part1_7d.30d1a5ae.2b06a6be_boundary
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In a message dated 11/15/2002 12:50:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Aren't those similar in nature to single-use cameras?
>
>
Yeah, but the cameras take better pictures than the phone cards.
Ralph
--part1_7d.30d1a5ae.2b06a6be_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/15/2002 12:50:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Aren't those similar in nature to single-use cameras?<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but the cameras take better pictures than the phone cards.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:49:41 -0800
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Glass Geezer - protective holster for my wood chisels....
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sorry Chris but Dad now has dementia and I have thrown away all the old
shoes. They wouldn't have been much use anyway, all cracked and hard. I
suggest you do what my husband did when he needed a new tool pouch for his
wrenches. He couldn't find one ready made so he went to an upholstery shop
and had one made. He had the old one as a pattern but you could just do a
drawing with measurements and they should be able to make what you need.
If they don't have suede to do it let me know, there is a leather shop near
here where I could get you a hide to use. Ruth
At 9:02 AM -0500 11/15/02, Met History wrote:
In a message dated 11/15/02 7:46:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<hey don't throw out those old shoes, I might need a piece of leather
someday>>
!!!!!Ruth, as a matter of fact, I had given up trying to find something
ready made, and I need to make some small protective wraps for my chisel
points and I could use a couple pieces of very supple leather --- suede
best, but I don't want to be too pushy. (Recently my wife just threw the
chisels into the tool box -- points first!!!!) I thought I had some old
chaps I could cut up, but some idiot threw them out. The pieces I need
would be about 5"x5" each - you can send them collect. Or, just send your
Dad. He can stay until my son returns from sailing off Queensland, around
December 15th.
Best, Christopher Gray
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:12:16 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Glass Geezer - protective holster for my wood chisels....
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In a message dated 11/16/2002 1:49:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> I suggest you do what my husband did when he needed a new tool pouch for his wrenches. He couldn't find one ready made so he went to an upholstery shop and had one made.
Ruth,
All this time we thought you were a sensible person. If Chrif is so goodam cheap he wants you to send him your father's old shoes, do you REALLY think he's going to spring for a fancy-schmancy Minhattin upholsterer to make him chisel pouches?
If so, I've got a bridge made of screwdrivers I'd like to sell you.
Ralph
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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:28:49 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The quest for Lime
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Well, thank you to everyone who had some input on my little repointing =
project. To answer a couple of questions that I didn't have time to =
before, yes this is just a little experement not a major project.
I've narrowed down the morter to a Type O, slightly harder then K but =
less then N. Now comes my hard task. Finding suitable lime for the =
mortar mixture. My first stop was to Home Depot.....nope no lime there. =
Looked in the masonry section and the garden section to no avail. Next =
stop the local garden store......Sorry we sold out last week and we're =
not expecting any till March. Foiled again! Next stop Lowes once =
again no luck in the masonry section. I did however have an interesting =
converstation with one of the employees that went something like this:
Lowe's Employee: Can I help you find something?
Me: Yes, I'm looking for some Lime to make mortar for a conservation =
project.
LE: (Glassy eyed stare.....the answer to this question was not in the =
Lowe's training manual) Dude, why don't you make it easy on yourself =
and get a bag of sakcrete?
Me: Well...... thanks for your time.
After prowling around the garden section I did come up with one =
prospect, but I'm not sure if it's the right material so I'm asking =
here. The product they carried was pulverized dolomitic limestone. =
Maybe someone can tell me if this what I need.
I also made a call out to a feed store about 20 min from my house. They =
carry hydrated lime in a 50lb sack. I'm thinking this is more of the =
product that I want to use.
Can someone explain the difference between, quick lime, hydrated lime, =
and pulverized limestone???
Thanks,
Nate Gillette
Grand Rapids, MI
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C28E88.B36607E0
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, thank you to everyone who had =
some input on=20
my little repointing project. To answer a couple of questions that =
I=20
didn't have time to before, yes this is just a little experement not a =
major=20
project.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've narrowed down the morter to a Type =
O, slightly=20
harder then K but less then N. Now comes my hard task. =
Finding=20
suitable lime for the mortar mixture. My first stop was to Home=20
Depot.....nope no lime there. Looked in the masonry section and =
the garden=20
section to no avail. Next stop the local garden store......Sorry =
we sold=20
out last week and we're not expecting any till March. Foiled=20
again! Next stop Lowes once again no luck in the masonry=20
section. I did however have an interesting converstation with one =
of the=20
employees that went something like this:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lowe's Employee: Can I help you find=20
something?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Me: Yes, I'm looking for some Lime to =
make mortar=20
for a conservation project.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LE: (Glassy eyed stare.....the answer =
to this=20
question was not in the Lowe's training manual) Dude, =
why don't=20
you make it easy on yourself and get a bag of sakcrete?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Me: Well...... thanks for your =
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After prowling around the garden =
section I did come=20
up with one prospect, but I'm not sure if it's the right material so I'm =
asking=20
here. The product they carried was pulverized dolomitic =
limestone. =20
Maybe someone can tell me if this what I need.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I also made a call out to a feed store =
about 20 min=20
from my house. They carry hydrated lime in a 50lb sack. I'm =
thinking=20
this is more of the product that I want to use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can someone explain the difference =
between, quick=20
lime, hydrated lime, and pulverized limestone???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nate Gillette</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Grand Rapids, =
MI</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C28E88.B36607E0--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:56:47 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> I've narrowed down the morter to a Type O, slightly harder then K but
less then N. Now comes my hard task. Finding suitable lime for the
mortar mixture. My first stop was to Home Depot.....nope no lime
there. Looked in the masonry section and the garden section to no
avail. Next stop the local garden store......Sorry we sold out last
week and we're not expecting any till March. Foiled again! Next stop
Lowes once again no luck in the masonry section. I did however have an
interesting converstation with one of the employees that went something
like this:
>
> Lowe's Employee: Can I help you find something?
> Me: Yes, I'm looking for some Lime to make mortar for a conservation
project.
> LE: (Glassy eyed stare.....the answer to this question was not in the
Lowe's training manual) Dude, why don't you make it easy on yourself
and get a bag of sakcrete?
> Me: Well...... thanks for your time.
>
> After prowling around the garden section I did come up with one
prospect, but I'm not sure if it's the right material so I'm asking
here. The product they carried was pulverized dolomitic limestone.
Maybe someone can tell me if this what I need.
>
> I also made a call out to a feed store about 20 min from my house.
They carry hydrated lime in a 50lb sack. I'm thinking this is more of
the product that I want to use.
>
> Can someone explain the difference between, quick lime, hydrated
lime, and pulverized limestone???
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nate Gillette
> Grand Rapids, MI
>
>
Nate: This is supposed to be simple. Hydrated Lime is really common
stuff that any local mason's supply store should have. If Home Depot is
out of it, it is probably indicative of why my Home Depot stock has
tanked. The lime cycle is basically this:
1. Dolomitic Limestone (Calcium/magnesium carbonate) + dynamite =
pulverized dolomitic limestone ("dolomitic" indicates a magnesium
content of at least 35%)
2. Pulverized limestone heated to 1800 degrees drives off carbon
dioxide leaving behind quicklime (calcium/magnesium oxide)
3. Quicklime + water= Hydrated lime (calcium/magnesium hydroxide) + heat
4. In your mortar, hydrated lime + carbon doixide = calcium/magnesium
carbonate. That's where you started. That's why it's the lime CYCLE.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
--
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<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:29:37 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
The subject line says it all: a law school classmate of mine (talked with
her at the recent reunion) wants a book that makes the case for
preservation being a good idea. Not just the economics but the
philosophy. I vaguely recall something by Robert Sipe or Stipe? Please
advise.
Larry
---
Lawrence Kestenbaum, [log in to unmask]
The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:46:31 -0500
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Kestenbaum
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
>=20
>=20
> The subject line says it all: a law school classmate of mine=20
> (talked with her at the recent reunion) wants a book that=20
> makes the case for preservation being a good idea. Not just=20
> the economics but the philosophy. I vaguely recall something=20
> by Robert Sipe or Stipe? Please advise.
Robert Stipe, editor, and my friend from down the road in Chapel Hill.
_The American Mosaic_ is probably the title you are thinking of; not
necessarily a "philosophy" but more a college level text for a broad
overview of the preservation movement in the U.S, which includes some
"why we do this." The original paean from the 60s that first
crystallized preservation philosophy (SAT question: ________ is to
preservation movement as "Silent Spring" is to environmental movement?)
in the U.S. is _With Heritage So Rich_.
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:50:52 EST
Reply-To: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Concise Headers Rule <[log in to unmask]>
From: Candice Brashears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_178.11f29e29.2b0a4a3c_boundary"
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Why we preserve has no one single answer. The subject, of much debate, is a
complicated one at best due in part to the diverse constituency and fields of
expertise that has immersed itself in preserving the material culture of
American's past. I am likely being presumptious, however, I am going to
assume your friend means preserving the built environment (ie. historic
structures). There is much written about "how" and "what" and "where"
buildings are preserved, but the question of "why" begs people to dig into
their psyche, political and economic affiliations etc etc. Saying "we do it
because we like old stuff" doesn't cut it.
Try: Mystic Chords of Memory: The Transformation of Tradition in American
Culture by Michael Kammen. 1991, 1993.
Domesticating History: The Political Origins of America's House Museums. by
Patricia West. 1999.
In Praise of Commercial Culture. by Tyler Cowen. 1998
Preserving Historic New England: Preservation, Progressivism,and the
Remaking of Memory. by James M. Lindgren. 1995
Start with Kammen.
Candy Brashears
In a message dated 11/18/02 7:45:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> > The subject line says it all: a law school classmate of mine
> > (talked with her at the recent reunion) wants a book that
> > makes the case for preservation being a good idea. Not just
> > the economics but the philosophy. I vaguely recall something
> > by Robert Sipe or Stipe? Please advise.
>
> Robert Stipe, editor, and my friend from down the road in Chapel Hill.
> _The American Mosaic_ is probably the title you are thinking of; not
> necessarily a "philosophy" but more a college level text for a broad
> overview of the preservation movement in the U.S, which includes some
> "why we do this." The original paean from the 60s that first
> crystallized preservation philosophy (SAT question: ________ is to
> preservation movement as "Silent Spring" is to environmental movement?)
> in the U.S. is _With Heritage So Rich_.
>
--part1_178.11f29e29.2b0a4a3c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Why we preserve has no one single answer. The subject, of much debate, is a complicated one at best due in part to the diverse constituency and fields of expertise that has immersed itself in preserving the material culture of American's past. I am likely being presumptious, however, I am going to assume your friend means preserving the built environment (ie. historic structures). There is much written about "how" and "what" and "where" buildings are preserved, but the question of "why" begs people to dig into their psyche, political and economic affiliations etc etc. Saying "we do it because we like old stuff" doesn't cut it.<BR>
<BR>
Try: <U>Mystic Chords of Memory: The Transformation of Tradition in American Culture</U> by Michael Kammen. 1991, 1993.<BR>
<U>Domesticating History: The Political Origins of America's House Museums</U>. by Patricia West. 1999.<BR>
<U>In Praise of Commercial Culture</U>. by Tyler Cowen. 1998<BR>
<U>Preserving Historic New England: Preservation, Progressivism,and the Remaking of Memory</U>. by James M. Lindgren. 1995<BR>
<BR>
Start with Kammen.<BR>
<BR>
Candy Brashears<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/18/02 7:45:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> The subject line says it all: a law school classmate of mine <BR>
> (talked with her at the recent reunion) wants a book that <BR>
> makes the case for preservation being a good idea. Not just <BR>
> the economics but the philosophy. I vaguely recall something <BR>
> by Robert Sipe or Stipe? Please advise.<BR>
<BR>
Robert Stipe, editor, and my friend from down the road in Chapel Hill.<BR>
_The American Mosaic_ is probably the title you are thinking of; not<BR>
necessarily a "philosophy" but more a college level text for a broad<BR>
overview of the preservation movement in the U.S, which includes some<BR>
"why we do this." The original paean from the 60s that first<BR>
crystallized preservation philosophy (SAT question: ________ is to<BR>
preservation movement as "Silent Spring" is to environmental movement?)<BR>
in the U.S. is _With Heritage So Rich_.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_178.11f29e29.2b0a4a3c_boundary--
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<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:36:27 -0500
Reply-To: make it easy on yourself -- get a bag of sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make it easy on yourself -- get a bag of sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kenneth Uracius <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Call Virginia Lime works and save your self a lot of problems
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Concise Headers Rule
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Nate Gillette
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 10:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The quest for Lime
Well, thank you to everyone who had some input on my little repointing
project. To answer a couple of questions that I didn't have time to before,
yes this is just a little experement not a major project.
I've narrowed down the morter to a Type O, slightly harder then K but less
then N. Now comes my hard task. Finding suitable lime for the mortar
mixture. My first stop was to Home Depot.....nope no lime there. Looked in
the masonry section and the garden section to no avail. Next stop the local
garden store......Sorry we sold out last week and we're not expecting any
till March. Foiled again! Next stop Lowes once again no luck in the
masonry section. I did however have an interesting converstation with one
of the employees that went something like this:
Lowe's Employee: Can I help you find something?
Me: Yes, I'm looking for some Lime to make mortar for a conservation
project.
LE: (Glassy eyed stare.....the answer to this question was not in the Lowe's
training manual) Dude, why don't you make it easy on yourself and get a
bag of sakcrete?
Me: Well...... thanks for your time.
After prowling around the garden section I did come up with one prospect,
but I'm not sure if it's the right material so I'm asking here. The product
they carried was pulverized dolomitic limestone. Maybe someone can tell me
if this what I need.
I also made a call out to a feed store about 20 min from my house. They
carry hydrated lime in a 50lb sack. I'm thinking this is more of the
product that I want to use.
Can someone explain the difference between, quick lime, hydrated lime, and
pulverized limestone???
Thanks,
Nate Gillette
Grand Rapids, MI
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color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ca=
ll
Virginia Lime works and save your self a lot of =
problems<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
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[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ke=
n<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Concise Headers =
Rule
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Nate Gillette<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, November =
17, 2002
10:29 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
[log in to unmask]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> The quest for =
Lime</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Well,
thank you to everyone who had some input on my little repointing =
project.
To answer a couple of questions that I didn't have time to before, yes =
this is
just a little experement not a major project.</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I've
narrowed down the morter to a Type O, slightly harder then K but less =
then
N. Now comes my hard task. Finding suitable lime for the =
mortar
mixture. My first stop was to Home Depot.....nope no lime =
there.
Looked in the masonry section and the garden section to no avail. =
Next
stop the local garden store......Sorry we sold out last week and we're =
not
expecting any till March. Foiled again! Next stop =
Lowes once
again no luck in the masonry section. I did however have an =
interesting
converstation with one of the employees that went something like =
this:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Lowe's
Employee: Can I help you find something?</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Me:
Yes, I'm looking for some Lime to make mortar for a conservation =
project.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>LE:
(Glassy eyed stare.....the answer to this question was not in the Lowe's
training manual) Dude, why don't you make it easy on =
yourself
and get a bag of sakcrete?</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Me:
Well...... thanks for your time.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>After
prowling around the garden section I did come up with one prospect, but =
I'm not
sure if it's the right material so I'm asking here. The product =
they
carried was pulverized dolomitic limestone. Maybe someone can tell =
me if
this what I need.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I also
made a call out to a feed store about 20 min from my house. They =
carry
hydrated lime in a 50lb sack. I'm thinking this is more of the =
product
that I want to use.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Can
someone explain the difference between, quick lime, hydrated lime, and
pulverized limestone???</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks,</span></=
font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Nate
Gillette</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Grand
Rapids, MI</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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From: "Kenneth Uracius" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: James W Price
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 06:59:17 -0500
Keywords: Lime Mortar
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:38:04 -0800
Reply-To: make it easy on yourself -- get a bag of sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make it easy on yourself -- get a bag of sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: martin skrelunas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--0-1497188098-1037633884=:50666
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Nate,
I repointed a 40 foot garden wall to put my preservation book learning into practice!
It cost about $1,000.00 in my labor. $25-30 in materials. I did mortar testing in the field to match color and texture, strength was of less importance. My lime and sand was from a good old fashion brick yard, the kind where rail tracks run through.
My Mortar analysis was quite accurate and fast, it cost less than it would have to fedex samples to a materials lab in NY. The lab qouted $1,000. just for the analysis which I rejected knowing they would do just what I did.
The local masons didn't want to touch the job. They are not in tune with pointing. They all suggested tearing the wall down and starting from scratch. It would have cost $10,000-$15,000.
The moral of the story? Hang in there, find your lime, and have fun. It is fun.
Martin Skrelunas
[log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 184
New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
--0-1497188098-1037633884=:50666
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<P>
<P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Nate,
<P>I repointed a 40 foot garden wall to put my preservation book learning into practice!
<P>It cost about $1,000.00 in my labor. $25-30 in materials. I did mortar testing in the field to match color and texture, strength was of less importance. My lime and sand was from a good old fashion brick yard, the kind where rail tracks run through.
<P>My Mortar analysis was quite accurate and fast, it cost less than it would have to fedex samples to a materials lab in NY. The lab qouted $1,000. just for the analysis which I rejected knowing they would do just what I did.
<P>The local masons didn't want to touch the job. They are not in tune with pointing. They all suggested tearing the wall down and starting from scratch. It would have cost $10,000-$15,000.
<P>The moral of the story? Hang in there, find your lime, and have fun. It is fun.</P><BR><BR>Martin Skrelunas<br>[log in to unmask]<br>P.O. Box 184<br>New Canaan, Ct 06840<br>ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/hosting/mailsig/*http://webhosting.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Web Hosting</a> - Let the expert host your site
--0-1497188098-1037633884=:50666--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:13:07 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
MIME-version: 1.0
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I think some phone cards have really neat pictures on them, Ralph.
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
In a message dated 11/15/2002 12:50:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Aren't those similar in nature to single-use cameras?
Yeah, but the cameras take better pictures than the phone cards.
Ralph
--Boundary_(ID_Zfh7NtePqiWKDOLFgM36XQ)
Content-type: text/html
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=189051216-18112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I think some phone cards have really neat pictures on them,
Ralph.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=189051216-18112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=189051216-18112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>- Pam</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2002 2:37
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Jim Hicks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 11/15/2002 12:50:21 PM
Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Aren't those similar in nature to single-use
cameras?<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Yeah, but the cameras take better
pictures than the phone cards.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:41:18 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Call Virginia Lime works and save your self a lot of problems
>
> Ken
Et tu, Ken?
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:48:24 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
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Hey! Isn't that wall supposed to be dry-laid?
-jc
martin skrelunas wrote:
>
> Nate,
>
> I repointed a 40 foot garden wall to put my preservation book learning
> into practice!
>
> It cost about $1,000.00 in my labor. $25-30 in materials. I did mortar
> testing in the field to match color and texture, strength was of less
> importance. My lime and sand was from a good old fashion brick yard,
> the kind where rail tracks run through.
>
> My Mortar analysis was quite accurate and fast, it cost less than it
> would have to fedex samples to a materials lab in NY. The lab qouted
> $1,000. just for the analysis which I rejected knowing they would do
> just what I did.
>
> The local masons didn't want to touch the job. They are not in tune
> with pointing. They all suggested tearing the wall down and starting
> from scratch. It would have cost $10,000-$15,000.
>
> The moral of the story? Hang in there, find your lime, and have fun.
> It is fun.
>
> Martin Skrelunas
> [log in to unmask]
> P.O. Box 184
> New Canaan, Ct 06840
> ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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Hey! Isn't that wall supposed to be dry-laid?
<p>-jc
<p>martin skrelunas wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>Nate,
<p>I repointed a 40 foot garden wall to put my preservation book learning
into practice!
<p>It cost about $1,000.00 in my labor. $25-30 in materials. I did mortar
testing in the field to match color and texture, strength was of
less importance. My lime and sand was from a good old fashion brick
yard, the kind where rail tracks run through.
<p>My Mortar analysis was quite accurate and fast, it cost less than it
would have to fedex samples to a materials lab in NY. The lab qouted $1,000.
just for the analysis which I rejected knowing they would do just what
I did.
<p>The local masons didn't want to touch the job. They are not in tune
with pointing. They all suggested tearing the wall down and starting from
scratch. It would have cost $10,000-$15,000.
<p>The moral of the story? Hang in there, find your lime, and have fun.
It is fun.
<p>Martin Skrelunas
<br>[log in to unmask]
<br>P.O. Box 184
<br>New Canaan, Ct 06840
<br>ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
<br>
<p>
<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?
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--------------7E3ADC5C55B8FB3DB7E9DF38--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:16:29 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
congrats!
But isn't it the "mortar of the storey"?
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: martin skrelunas [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:38 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
Nate,
I repointed a 40 foot garden wall to put my preservation book learning into
practice!
It cost about $1,000.00 in my labor. $25-30 in materials. I did mortar
testing in the field to match color and texture, strength was of less
importance. My lime and sand was from a good old fashion brick yard, the
kind where rail tracks run through.
My Mortar analysis was quite accurate and fast, it cost less than it would
have to fedex samples to a materials lab in NY. The lab qouted $1,000. just
for the analysis which I rejected knowing they would do just what I did.
The local masons didn't want to touch the job. They are not in tune with
pointing. They all suggested tearing the wall down and starting from
scratch. It would have cost $10,000-$15,000.
The moral of the story? Hang in there, find your lime, and have fun. It is
fun.
Martin Skrelunas
[log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 184
New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
_____
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:46:49 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kenneth Uracius <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I guess you can tell it any way you want. It all comes out the same
ken
-----Original Message-----
From: make easy -- get sakcrete
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hammarberg,
Eric
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
congrats!
But isn't it the "mortar of the storey"?
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: martin skrelunas [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:38 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
Nate,
I repointed a 40 foot garden wall to put my preservation book learning into
practice!
It cost about $1,000.00 in my labor. $25-30 in materials. I did mortar
testing in the field to match color and texture, strength was of less
importance. My lime and sand was from a good old fashion brick yard, the
kind where rail tracks run through.
My Mortar analysis was quite accurate and fast, it cost less than it would
have to fedex samples to a materials lab in NY. The lab qouted $1,000. just
for the analysis which I rejected knowing they would do just what I did.
The local masons didn't want to touch the job. They are not in tune with
pointing. They all suggested tearing the wall down and starting from
scratch. It would have cost $10,000-$15,000.
The moral of the story? Hang in there, find your lime, and have fun. It is
fun.
Martin Skrelunas
[log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 184
New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:40:15 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
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Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 9:29 PM
Subject: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
>"HERITAGE FIGHTS BACK"
by Marc C. Denhez
introduction by Piere Berton
1978 - Heritage Canada and Fitzhenry & Whiteside=20
"Legal, financial and promotional aspects of Canada's efforts to save =
its architecture and historic sites."
Now there is a title for you! Who says Canadians are wimps!
This book looks at not only Why but How (Including a chapter section on =
"Riot", referring to the 1971 riot in Vancouver's Gastown that was about =
preservation, complete with riot police on horseback charging the =
crowds, and official reprimands for police behaviour, as well as a =
public/police "peace party" a week later to patch up community relations =
- "The riot and its aftermath had taught an important lesson: it would =
take more than the fine words of the Archaeological and Historic Sites =
Protection Act to assure Gastown's future." ).=20
Check out the date. Some things never change, only the leadership or =
lack of it.
cp in bc
Fight Fight Fight - Go Team !
ps: Those hippie days were great.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 9:29=20
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Need Book Recommendation: Why =
We=20
Preserve</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>"HERITAGE FIGHTS BACK"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>by Marc C. Denhez</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>introduction by Piere =
Berton</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1978 - Heritage Canada and Fitzhenry =
&=20
Whiteside </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Legal, financial and promotional =
aspects of=20
Canada's efforts to save its architecture and historic =
sites."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now there is a title for =
you! Who says=20
Canadians are wimps!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This book looks at not only Why but How =
(Including=20
a chapter section on "Riot", referring to the 1971 riot in =
Vancouver's=20
Gastown that was about preservation, complete with riot police on =
horseback=20
charging the crowds, and official reprimands for police behaviour, as =
well as a=20
public/police "peace party" a week later to patch up community relations =
-=20
"The riot and its aftermath had taught an important lesson: it would =
take more=20
than the fine words of the <EM>Archaeological and Historic Sites=20
Protection</EM> Act to assure Gastown's =
future." ). </FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Check out the date. Some =
things never=20
change, only the leadership or lack of it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fight Fight Fight - Go Team =
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ps: Those hippie days were=20
great.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:03:22 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
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> The subject line says it all: a law school classmate of mine (talked with
> her at the recent reunion) wants a book that makes the case for
> preservation being a good idea. Not just the economics but the
> philosophy. I vaguely recall something by Robert Sipe or Stipe? Please
> advise.
>
Historic Preservation by Fitch. One of the better books that delves into
theory of preservation. Not a bad read either. The subtitle of the book is
"Curatorial Management of the Built World". This should get her started.
By the way, I saw you give a presentation at the Cemetery Preservation
conference in Berrien Springs this year. You're presentation was
interesting but I didn't really care for the whole tone of the conference. I
was wondering what your take on that conference was?
I was a little put off by the group of so called "feature preservationists"
who were preserving their cemetery by reengraving the headstones with dremel
tools and dentist tools. There were other destructive treatments they were
using also. All I could think of was, Is this the best they could come up
with?
Nate Gillette
Grand Rapids, MI
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:06:04 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
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<Nate: This is supposed to be simple. Hydrated Lime is really common
<stuff that any local mason's supply store should have. If Home Depot is
<out of it, it is probably indicative of why my Home Depot stock has
<tanked.
Yeah, that's what I thought too. Home Depot had nothing. I'm a general
contractor by trade and have a good relationship with the local brick yard.
I told them what I was doing and they told me they didn't have any lime, go
down to the local feed store. It's so strange to deal with these people some
time. You tell these people what you need or what you're doing and they
just look at you like they have no idea what you're talking about or this is
some new fangled concept to them. If you're not there buying Type N mortar
and some sand you're really throwing them off. I think I need to find a new
brick yard to deal with.
I'm gonna drive out the feed mill and get some hydrated lime. It's worth
the drive to get through all the hassle.
Nate Gillette
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:59:55 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Nate,
Contact the folks at Mississippi Lime and see if they have a distributor near
you. Check and see if you have Vopak USA, Inc. in your phone book. They are
distributors of Mississippi Lime. If you really feel like an adventure buy
some of their pulverized calcium oxide (quicklime). If not then buy some of
their hydrated lime.
Mississippi Lime 800-437-5463
<A HREF="http://www.mississippilime.com/">Click here: Welcome to Mississippi Lime - Supplier of high calcium lime
products.</A>
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>Nate,<BR>
<BR>
Contact the folks at Mississippi Lime and see if they have a distributor near you. Check and see if you have Vopak USA, Inc. in your phone book. They are distributors of Mississippi Lime. If you really feel like an adventure buy some of their pulverized calcium oxide (quicklime). If not then buy some of their hydrated lime.<BR>
<BR>
Mississippi Lime 800-437-5463<BR>
<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.mississippilime.com/">Click here: Welcome to Mississippi Lime - Supplier of high calcium lime products.</A> <BR>
<BR>
Steve</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:15:23 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lime Lame Lamu Lima Lemming Gnocchi Pinocchio Troche Trachea
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So, what's the connection between the lime that you put in a gin and tonic
and the lime that you put into what should have been a dry-laid wall?
Christopher Gray
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">So, what's the connection between the lime that you put in a gin and tonic and the lime that you put into what should have been a dry-laid wall?<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Gray</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:30:01 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 11:14:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I think some phone cards have really neat pictures on them, Ralph.
>
Pam,
I have been thinking that I had it backwards, and that some phone cards take
better pictures than some single use cameras.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 11:14:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I think some phone cards have really neat pictures on them, Ralph.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Pam,<BR>
<BR>
I have been thinking that I had it backwards, and that some phone cards take better pictures than some single use cameras.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:34:10 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Who says Canadians are wimps!
>
> This book looks at not only Why but How (Including a chapter section on
> "Riot", referring to the 1971 riot in Vancouver's Gastown that was about
> preservation,
>
Cuyler,
A riot about histo presto?! That doesn't even aspire to rise to the level of
wimpiness.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Who says Canadians are wimps!</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">This book looks at not only Why but How (Including a chapter section on "Riot", referring to the 1971 riot in Vancouver's Gastown that was about preservation,</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Cuyler,<BR>
<BR>
A riot about histo presto?! That doesn't even aspire to rise to the level of wimpiness.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:35:54 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:52:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It's worth the drive to get through all the hassle.
>
Nate,
Then you sure as hell better stay away from Home Depot.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:52:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It's worth the drive to get through all the hassle.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Nate,<BR>
<BR>
Then you sure as hell better stay away from Home Depot.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:42:00 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime: Warning, Will Riobinson!
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 7:04:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Nate,
>
> Contact the folks at Mississippi Lime and see if they have a distributor
> near you.
Nate,
Better watch your ass. This Steve guy comes across alright in the beginning,
but the rest of us found out some time back that he's on o' them
unreconstructed Rebel types. And how the hell would you know (until it's too
late) whether his, shall we say confederates, in Mississippi sent you lime or
quicklime?
Those dopes at Home Depot may take all day, and may not know jack shit, but
they don't have 140 year old chips on their shoulders.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 7:04:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>Nate,<BR>
<BR>
Contact the folks at Mississippi Lime and see if they have a distributor near you. </BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Nate,<BR>
<BR>
Better watch your ass. This Steve guy comes across alright in the beginning, but the rest of us found out some time back that he's on o' them unreconstructed Rebel types. And how the hell would you know (until it's too late) whether his, shall we say confederates, in Mississippi sent you lime or quicklime?<BR>
<BR>
Those dopes at Home Depot may take all day, and may not know jack shit, but they don't have 140 year old chips on their shoulders.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:45:19 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lime Lame Lamu Lima Lemming Gnocchi Pinocchio Troche Trachea
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 7:17:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> So, what's the connection between the lime that you put in a gin and tonic
> and the lime that you put into what should have been a dry-laid wall?
>
Chrif,
While you're chasing down unrelated Limes, don't forget Harry Lime, and the
Maid in the Lime Green Panties. I know which literary figure I'd choose.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 7:17:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">So, what's the connection between the lime that you put in a gin and tonic and the lime that you put into what should have been a dry-laid wall?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Chrif,<BR>
<BR>
While you're chasing down unrelated Limes, don't forget Harry Lime, and the Maid in the Lime Green Panties. I know which literary figure I'd choose.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:23:13 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
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Yeah, I forgot that you don't have to hire a consultant to have a riot.
cp in passionate bc
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ralph Walter=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask] writes:
Who says Canadians are wimps!
This book looks at not only Why but How (Including a chapter section =
on "Riot", referring to the 1971 riot in Vancouver's Gastown that was =
about preservation,
Cuyler,
A riot about histo presto?! That doesn't even aspire to rise to the =
level of wimpiness.
Ralph
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yeah, I forgot that you don't have to =
hire a=20
consultant to have a riot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in passionate bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Ralph =
Walter</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
[log in to unmask]
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINH=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 18, 2002 =
4:34=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Need Book =
Recommendation:=20
Why We Preserve</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3DArial size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 11/18/2002 6:04:01 PM Eastern =
Standard=20
Time, <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=20
writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">Who says Canadians are wimps!</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">This book looks at not only Why but How =
(Including a=20
chapter section on "Riot", referring to the 1971 riot in Vancouver's =
Gastown=20
that was about preservation,</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Cuyler,<BR><BR>A riot about histo presto?! That =
doesn't=20
even aspire to rise to the level of wimpiness.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:41:44 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Preservation and Ruminant Nookie
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 8:22:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Yeah, I forgot that you don't have to hire a consultant to have a riot.
>
Cuyler,
In that case, I'm completely opposed to riots. Assuming, by "consultant,"
you mean a Design Professional.
My boss tells a joke about the difference between an "consultant" and an
"expert," which has something to do with sexual reproduction among bovines,
but I can't ever remember the details. No doubt it's just as well, eh?
And as a far as histo presto philosophy books are concerned, I've always
liked Fitch's two "American Building" books, even though it's been 25 years
since I read 'em.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 8:22:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yeah, I forgot that you don't have to hire a consultant to have a riot.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Cuyler,<BR>
<BR>
In that case, I'm completely opposed to riots. Assuming, by "consultant," you mean a Design Professional. <BR>
<BR>
My boss tells a joke about the difference between an "consultant" and an "expert," which has something to do with sexual reproduction among bovines, but I can't ever remember the details. No doubt it's just as well, eh?<BR>
<BR>
And as a far as histo presto philosophy books are concerned, I've always liked Fitch's two "American Building" books, even though it's been 25 years since I read 'em. <BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:06:24 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ....and you've crossed it. Sign me, Son Of Osha
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In a message dated 11/18/02 9:42:20 PM , [log in to unmask] writes:
> about the difference between an "consultant" and an "expert," which has
> something to do with sexual reproduction among bovines
Ralph, there's a fine line between humor and sexual harrassment......
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/02 9:42:20 PM , [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">about the difference between an "consultant" and an "expert," which has something to do with sexual reproduction among bovines</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
Ralph, there's a fine line between humor and sexual harrassment......</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:15:05 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crossing a Rubicon of Fine Lines On a Slippery Slope
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 10:07:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ralph, there's a fine line between humor and sexual harrassment......
Not among the bovines.
Sign me,
Been there, done that.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/18/2002 10:07:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ralph, there's a fine line between humor and sexual harrassment......</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Not among the bovines. <BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
Been there, done that.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:43:23 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Illustrated message:....and you've crossed it. Sign me,
Son Of Osha
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__________________________________________
a fine line
- - - - - - - --- - - - - - ---- - - - --- - ----xx-- - ---- - - - - - =
--
an unfine line
----- Original Message Illustrated -----=20
Ralph, there's a fine line . . . . . . . . .=20
humour_____________________________________sexual harassment
note:
(spell shecker must be English-Canadian)
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C28F3A.C1469A20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>__________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a fine line</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> - - - - - - - --- - - - - - =
---- - - -=20
--- - ----xx-- - ---- - - - - - --</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>an unfine line</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
Illustrated -----=20
</DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SERIF">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT><BR>Ralph, there's a fine line . . . . . . . . . =
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial>humour_____________________________________sexual=20
harassment</FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><FONT=20
face=3DArial>note:</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><FONT=20
face=3DArial>(spell shecker must be=20
=
English-Canadian)<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:07:48 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lime Lame Lamu Lima Lemming Gnocchi Pinocchio Troche Trachea
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> So, what's the connection between the lime that you put in a gin and
tonic
> and the lime that you put into what should have been a dry-laid wall?
>
> Christopher Gray
>
>
Any laborer on the crew knows the answer to that. The work on the wall
pays for the drinks.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:29:43 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Heidi Harendza <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
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In a message dated 11/18/2002 12:30:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< The subject line says it all: a law school classmate of mine (talked with
her at the recent reunion) wants a book that makes the case for
preservation being a good idea. Not just the economics but the
philosophy. I vaguely recall something by Robert Sipe or Stipe? Please
advise. >>
You could also try _Preservation of What for Whom? A Critical Look at
Historical Significance_ Michael Tomlan ed. (Ithaca: National Council for
Historic Preservation, 1998). Do note use of the word critical though-- it
isn't essays on preservation for preservation sake.
I always like J.B. Jackson for general landscape awareness essays. Easy to
read and thoughtful. There is a fairly new book _Landscape in Sight_
compiling some of his best essays.
-Heidi
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:27:25 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
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Especially with some of the latest news in this wonderful metropolis I work
in. Don't ask anybody who works for the Big Yellow Box in its HQ town about
single-use cameras. They just announced they're closing the line in favour
of Hungary or Mexico.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Jim Hicks
In a message dated 11/18/2002 11:14:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I think some phone cards have really neat pictures on them, Ralph.
Pam,
I have been thinking that I had it backwards, and that some phone cards take
better pictures than some single use cameras.
Ralph
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=782192513-19112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Especially with some of the latest news in this wonderful metropolis I
work in. Don't ask anybody who works for the Big Yellow Box in its HQ town
about single-use cameras. They just announced they're closing the line in
favour of Hungary or Mexico.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 18, 2002 7:30
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Jim Hicks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 11/18/2002 11:14:06 AM
Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">I think some phone cards have really neat pictures on them,
Ralph.</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SCRIPT"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Pam,<BR><BR>I have been thinking that I had it
backwards, and that some phone cards take better pictures than some single use
cameras.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:13:07 GMT
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for lime
<Better watch your ass. This Steve guy comes across alright in the <beginning,but the rest of us found out some time back that he's on o' <them unreconstructed Rebel types. And how the hell would you know <until it's too late) whether his, shall we say confederates, in <Mississippi sent you lime or quicklime? Those dopes at Home Depot may <take all day, and may not know jack shit, but
<they don't have 140 year old chips on their shoulders.
Naw, Steve's an alright guy, we've chatted a few times. We're from the same neighborhood. God I wish I was back in Savannah. My life was much less stressful when I was there.
It's funny that you mention that chip on the shoulder. I never believed how much hatred there still is for the north until I lived down south. I went to an oyster roast one night in Savannah and got a little tanked up. I started shooting off my mouth about how great of a general Sherman was. A silent hush fell over the large group of people that I was standing around. I waited fearfully for the racking noise of a shotgun. I'm suprised I came out of that night without being pummeled.
Nate Gillette
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:19:06 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Spirit
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> I do believe there is a higher incidence of good luck if one is doing good
> things. Recognizing ourselves as stewards of small but vital parts of a
> great whole and continuum is a start.
Leland,
I spend an inordinate amount of time checking in with the underlying powers
-- I consider commuter scrying as a reasoning technique, as well as paying
attention to dreams, and when awake have used for many years both the I-Ching
and runes in order to gain a sense of perspective over business/life
decisions. Mostly I use divining techniques as a control managament task. At
times any answer provides a calming focus.
On the other hand... I pick up all of the pennies I find laying around in
public and worry if I see one and miss it. I believe that if you think about
the money in your pocket that there is a large cosmic conspiracy and that
suddenly a force will come along and remove all of it. I also believe that
there are spirits in some buildings and that you have to look out for them.
My penchant for books... it amazes me the number of times I have walked into
a bookstore and right off found what I was looking for, not too disimilar
than opening the bible or a phone book and pointing at a word with a pencil.
On a recent trip to Rhode Island I walked into a used bookstore and the first
book I put my hand on turned out to be a humorous pitch, The Specialist, a
talk by a traveling salesman re: the profession of outhouse building.
Everything else in the bookstore was delightful, but downhill from there.
I think that most of what we really need to know in life comes to us when we
need it... quite similar to Cuyler & the history of glazing points. If it
were not for serendipity I think we would all know a lot less. I also believe
that some geographic locations have more innate educational potential than
others.
][<en
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I do believe there is a higher incidence of good luck if one is doing good things. Recognizing ourselves as stewards of small but vital parts of a great whole and continuum is a start.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Leland,<BR>
<BR>
I spend an inordinate amount of time checking in with the underlying powers -- I consider commuter scrying as a reasoning technique, as well as paying attention to dreams, and when awake have used for many years both the I-Ching and runes in order to gain a sense of perspective over business/life decisions. Mostly I use divining techniques as a control managament task. At times any answer provides a calming focus.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand... I pick up all of the pennies I find laying around in public and worry if I see one and miss it. I believe that if you think about the money in your pocket that there is a large cosmic conspiracy and that suddenly a force will come along and remove all of it. I also believe that there are spirits in some buildings and that you have to look out for them.<BR>
<BR>
My penchant for books... it amazes me the number of times I have walked into a bookstore and right off found what I was looking for, not too disimilar than opening the bible or a phone book and pointing at a word with a pencil. On a recent trip to Rhode Island I walked into a used bookstore and the first book I put my hand on turned out to be a humorous pitch, The Specialist, a talk by a traveling salesman re: the profession of outhouse building. Everything else in the bookstore was delightful, but downhill from there.<BR>
<BR>
I think that most of what we really need to know in life comes to us when we need it... quite similar to Cuyler & the history of glazing points. If it were not for serendipity I think we would all know a lot less. I also believe that some geographic locations have more innate educational potential than others.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:27:25 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for lime
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In a message dated 11/19/2002 10:13:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> It's funny that you mention that chip on the shoulder. I never believed how much hatred there still is for the north until I lived down south. I went to an oyster roast one night in Savannah and got a little tanked up. I started shooting
> off my mouth about how great of a general Sherman was.
Nate,
Congratulations! You have been prequalied for instant membership in the Fart Smellers Club, and if you continue in this vein, you may get a Darwin Award one of these days.
But be sure to send me your FSC dues (in cash), fast.
Ralph
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:31:11 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: Spirit
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Oh mellow one,
How do spirts and balance explain my constant inclination to do or learn
everything by the hardest most painful route. Does it mean that I am
out of balance...or is that my particular center of gravity? Can one
change one's center of gravity, 'cause I sure would like to slide for
awhile.
-jc
And don't think for a minute I didn't pick up on the "educational
potential" crack. I just can't rise to every challeng all the time!
Ken Follett wrote:
>
>
>> I do believe there is a higher incidence of good luck if one is
>> doing good things. Recognizing ourselves as stewards of small but
>> vital parts of a great whole and continuum is a start.
>
> Leland,
>
> I spend an inordinate amount of time checking in with the underlying
> powers -- I consider commuter scrying as a reasoning technique, as
> well as paying attention to dreams, and when awake have used for many
> years both the I-Ching and runes in order to gain a sense of
> perspective over business/life decisions. Mostly I use divining
> techniques as a control managament task. At times any answer provides
> a calming focus.
>
> On the other hand... I pick up all of the pennies I find laying around
> in public and worry if I see one and miss it. I believe that if you
> think about the money in your pocket that there is a large cosmic
> conspiracy and that suddenly a force will come along and remove all of
> it. I also believe that there are spirits in some buildings and that
> you have to look out for them.
>
> My penchant for books... it amazes me the number of times I have
> walked into a bookstore and right off found what I was looking for,
> not too disimilar than opening the bible or a phone book and pointing
> at a word with a pencil. On a recent trip to Rhode Island I walked
> into a used bookstore and the first book I put my hand on turned out
> to be a humorous pitch, The Specialist, a talk by a traveling salesman
> re: the profession of outhouse building. Everything else in the
> bookstore was delightful, but downhill from there.
>
> I think that most of what we really need to know in life comes to us
> when we need it... quite similar to Cuyler & the history of glazing
> points. If it were not for serendipity I think we would all know a lot
> less. I also believe that some geographic locations have more innate
> educational potential than others.
>
> ][<en
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Oh mellow one,
<p>How do spirts and balance explain my constant inclination to do or learn
everything by the hardest most painful route. Does it mean that I
am out of balance...or is that my particular center of gravity? Can
one change one's center of gravity, 'cause I sure would like to slide for
awhile.
<p>-jc
<p>And don't think for a minute I didn't pick up on the "educational potential"
crack. I just can't rise to every challeng all the time!
<p>Ken Follett wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
do believe there is a higher incidence of good luck if one is doing good
things. Recognizing ourselves as stewards of small but vital parts
of a great whole and continuum is a start.</font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Leland,</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I spend an inordinate
amount of time checking in with the underlying powers -- I consider commuter
scrying as a reasoning technique, as well as paying attention to dreams,
and when awake have used for many years both the I-Ching and runes in order
to gain a sense of perspective over business/life decisions. Mostly I use
divining techniques as a control managament task. At times any answer provides
a calming focus.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>On the other
hand... I pick up all of the pennies I find laying around in public and
worry if I see one and miss it. I believe that if you think about the money
in your pocket that there is a large cosmic conspiracy and that suddenly
a force will come along and remove all of it. I also believe that there
are spirits in some buildings and that you have to look out for them.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>My penchant for
books... it amazes me the number of times I have walked into a bookstore
and right off found what I was looking for, not too disimilar than opening
the bible or a phone book and pointing at a word with a pencil. On a recent
trip to Rhode Island I walked into a used bookstore and the first book
I put my hand on turned out to be a humorous pitch, The Specialist, a talk
by a traveling salesman re: the profession of outhouse building. Everything
else in the bookstore was delightful, but downhill from there.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I think that
most of what we really need to know in life comes to us when we need it...
quite similar to Cuyler & the history of glazing points. If it were
not for serendipity I think we would all know a lot less. I also believe
that some geographic locations have more innate educational potential than
others.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>][<en</font></font></font></blockquote>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:33:12 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Spirit
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> to do or learn everything by the hardest most painful route.
>
The pain wore me out so I left it behind. I'm sure it will catch up in time.
Mellow... my tush!
So my friend told a story this last weekend about how the coach of his
sailing team took the crew out to party and drink late into the night the
evening before the great race. The competing team went to bed early and got
plenty of healthy rest. In the morning everyone on my friend's team dragged
themselves out of bed feeling terrible, hangovers etc. They sailed. My
friend's team won the race. Perplexed, he went to his coach and asked him why
it was they went out and partied and how they won the race. His coach asked
him how he felt in the morning, to which he replied he felt lousy. His coach
said that it was good. When you feel weak and ill you only do what you are
supposed to do. When you feel good you have the opportunity to expend extra
energy where it is not needed.
An apt analogy for the energies of a diabetic.
][<en
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">to do or learn everything by the hardest most painful route. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
The pain wore me out so I left it behind. I'm sure it will catch up in time.<BR>
<BR>
Mellow... my tush! <BR>
<BR>
So my friend told a story this last weekend about how the coach of his sailing team took the crew out to party and drink late into the night the evening before the great race. The competing team went to bed early and got plenty of healthy rest. In the morning everyone on my friend's team dragged themselves out of bed feeling terrible, hangovers etc. They sailed. My friend's team won the race. Perplexed, he went to his coach and asked him why it was they went out and partied and how they won the race. His coach asked him how he felt in the morning, to which he replied he felt lousy. His coach said that it was good. When you feel weak and ill you only do what you are supposed to do. When you feel good you have the opportunity to expend extra energy where it is not needed.<BR>
<BR>
An apt analogy for the energies of a diabetic.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:55:15 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: Spirit
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Ken Follett wrote:
> So my friend told a story this last weekend about how the coach of his
> sailing team ...
Was it Ernest Hemingway who said Big Game Hunting and Bull Fighting are
sports everything else is a game...
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<p>Ken Follett wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>So my friend told
a story this last weekend about how the coach of his sailing team ...</font></font></blockquote>
Was it Ernest Hemingway who said Big Game Hunting and Bull Fighting are
sports everything else is a game...</html>
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note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:26:42 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need Book Recommendation: Why We Preserve
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Nate Gillette wrote:
> By the way, I saw you give a presentation at the Cemetery Preservation
> conference in Berrien Springs this year. You're presentation was
> interesting but I didn't really care for the whole tone of the conference. I
> was wondering what your take on that conference was?
I didn't have any involvement in setting up the conference. They invited
me to come and speak about some political points I had made earlier on
another email list, when I proposed a statewide cemetery preservation
lobbying group (other states have this, why not Michigan?). I didn't
expect to be the big opening act. I had never met any of these folks
before. Nor am I a good public speaker, to say the least. But it was
kinda fun, and the response seemed positive.
> I was a little put off by the group of so called "feature preservationists"
> who were preserving their cemetery by reengraving the headstones with dremel
> tools and dentist tools. There were other destructive treatments they were
> using also. All I could think of was, Is this the best they could come up
> with?
Yikes! That must have happened after I left.
Larry
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Washtenaw County Commissioner, 4th District
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Polygon, the Dancing Bear, http://potifos.com/polygon
Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:31:07 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for lime
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Fine! For those of us below the Mason-Dixon we will use Mississippi Lime and
those of you above the Mason-Dixon you can use Graymont. Yeah I have great
dislike for that son-of-a bitch also. I dislike Sherman more than Lincoln. Oh
by the way, we now have a choice of quicklime, hydrated lime, and lime putty.
Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.
Sign me,
Unreconstructed Fart Smeller
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>Fine! For those of us below the Mason-Dixon we will use Mississippi Lime and those of you above the Mason-Dixon you can use Graymont. Yeah I have great dislike for that son-of-a bitch also. I dislike Sherman more than Lincoln. Oh by the way, we now have a choice of quicklime, hydrated lime, and lime putty. Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Unreconstructed Fart Smeller</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:48:33 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Son Of Osha bin Leaden
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Hey, Pinheads!
Guess which of our Sharpshooting associates got himself a most complimentary
writeup in this week's New Yorker? Yes, the New Yorker,. Nov 18, p. 74:
The eminently practical Christopher Gray, in a brief introduction to a new
volume of rediscovered photographs, "The Chrysler Building: Creating a New
York Icon Day by Day" (Princeton Arch'l Press; $45), scoffs at the notion
that the spire's emergence actually came as a surprise--how many workmen had
to be in on the plan?--but he allows only that it must have been erected
sometime in October or November [1929];
The piece goes on to talk about the Chrysler bldg and various others, and is
most worthwhile and interesting. Careful Pinhead readers will see a reference
to the story--broken first in this space-- about the architect getting
stiffed by the Owner and suing for his fees.
Fortunately, the NYer doesn't cost 45 clams, but then you don't get all the
pix, either.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hey, Pinheads!<BR>
<BR>
Guess which of our Sharpshooting associates got himself a most complimentary writeup in this week's New Yorker? Yes, the New Yorker,. Nov 18, p. 74:<BR>
<BR>
The eminently practical Christopher Gray, in a brief introduction to a new volume of rediscovered photographs, "The Chrysler Building: Creating a New York Icon Day by Day" (Princeton Arch'l Press; $45), scoffs at the notion that the spire's emergence actually came as a surprise--how many workmen had to be in on the plan?--but he allows only that it must have been erected sometime in October or November [1929];<BR>
<BR>
The piece goes on to talk about the Chrysler bldg and various others, and is most worthwhile and interesting. Careful Pinhead readers will see a reference to the story--broken first in this space-- about the architect getting stiffed by the Owner and suing for his fees. <BR>
<BR>
Fortunately, the NYer doesn't cost 45 clams, but then you don't get all the pix, either.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:55:28 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for true lime never doth run straight
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In a message dated 11/19/2002 9:32:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.
>
And there are those that claim that, in this day and age, the level of public
discourse has declined.
As for his comments on the late Hon. Wm. T. Sherman, I say: "Liar, liar,
pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire."
Distinguished Fart Smeller
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/19/2002 9:32:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">And there are those that claim that, in this day and age, the level of public discourse has declined.<BR>
<BR>
As for his comments on the late Hon. Wm. T. Sherman, I say: "Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire."<BR>
<BR>
Distinguished Fart Smeller</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:00:34 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Son Of Osha bin Leaden
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In a message dated 11/19/02 9:54:40 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Guess which of our Sharpshooting associates got himself a most complimentary
> writeup in this week's New Yorker?
Was it? Complimentary, I mean? I "heard" it differently, that I was an
insufferable, know-it-all, snide nitwit. Which is, of course.... oh well.
Best, Do They Drive Lincolns In the South?
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/19/02 9:54:40 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Guess which of our Sharpshooting associates got himself a most complimentary writeup in this week's New Yorker? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
Was it? Complimentary, I mean? I "heard" it differently, that I was an insufferable, know-it-all, snide nitwit. Which is, of course.... oh well. <BR>
<BR>
Best, Do They Drive Lincolns In the South? </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:28:57 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Son Of Osha bin Leaden
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In a message dated 11/19/2002 10:01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Was it? Complimentary, I mean? I certainly took "eminently practical" to be
> a compliment. Especially when applied to a Noo Yawkuh. After all, what
> does any Noo Yawkuh know from practical? Must be your Midwestern roots.
> I "heard" it differently, that I was an insufferable, know-it-all, snide
> nitwit. I think you're just confusing the private views of those of us who
> know you with what the reviewer was saying for public consumption. Which
> is, of course.... oh well. Say no more. Please.
>
> Best, Do They Drive Lincolns In the South?
Yes, and you'll find them at the bottom of all the best fishing spots,
along with the skeletons > of all the missing civil rights workers.
>
> Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/19/2002 10:01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Was it? Complimentary, I mean? <B>I certainly took "eminently practical" to be a compliment. Especially when applied to a Noo Yawkuh. After all, what does any Noo Yawkuh know from practical? Must be your Midwestern roots. </B> I "heard" it differently, that I was an insufferable, know-it-all, snide nitwit. <B> I think you're just confusing the private views of those of us who know you with what the reviewer was saying for public consumption.</B> Which is, of course.... oh well. <B>Say no more. Please.</B><BR>
<BR>
Best, Do They Drive Lincolns In the South?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"> <B>Yes, and you'll find them at the bottom of all the best fishing spots, along with the skeletons <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">of all the missing civil rights workers.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 06:00:16 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "J. Bryan Blundell" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for lime
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Steve:
(This should be read with a refined southern dialect in a molasses smooth
base voice.)
Dear Sirs and Ladies
We cordially invite you and your kin folk to join us at the IPTW-2004 that
will be held in the fine city of Mobile, in the fine state of Alabama. We
will be deeply honored and pleased to provide you with the best of our
glorious southern hospitality. We are sure that you will find this event a
jubilation of the mind, body and soul.
We'll get them down there and then show them carpetbaggin, blue hatted
yanks a thing or two.
Born in Alabama
============
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Fine! For those of us below the Mason-Dixon we will use Mississippi Lime
> and those of you above the Mason-Dixon you can use Graymont. Yeah I have
> great dislike for that son-of-a bitch also. I dislike Sherman more than
> Lincoln. Oh by the way, we now have a choice of quicklime, hydrated lime,
> and lime putty. Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.
>
> Sign me,
> Unreconstructed Fart Smeller
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<i><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>Steve:</font></font></i><font color="#000099"><font size=-2></font></font>
<p><font color="#009900"><font size=-1>(This should be read with a refined
southern dialect in a molasses smooth base voice.)</font></font><i><font color="#000099"><font size=-2></font></font></i>
<p><font color="#000099">Dear Sirs and Ladies</font><font color="#000099"><font size=-2></font></font>
<p><font color="#000099">We cordially invite you and your kin folk to join
us at the IPTW-2004 that will be held in the fine city of Mobile, in the
fine state of Alabama. We will be deeply honored and pleased to provide
you with the best of our glorious southern hospitality. We are sure that
you will find this event a jubilation of the mind, body and soul. </font><font color="#000099"></font>
<p><i><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>We'll get them down there and
then show them carpetbaggin, blue hatted yanks a thing or two.</font></font></i><i><font color="#000000"><font size=-2></font></font></i>
<p><i><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>Born in Alabama</font></font></i>
<br><font color="#000000">============</font>
<p>[log in to unmask] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><b><font face="High Tower Text"><font size=+0>Fine!
For those of us below the Mason-Dixon we will use Mississippi Lime and
those of you above the Mason-Dixon you can use Graymont. Yeah I have great
dislike for that son-of-a bitch also. I dislike Sherman more than Lincoln.
Oh by the way, we now have a choice of quicklime, hydrated lime, and lime
putty. Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.</font></font></b>
<p><b><font face="High Tower Text"><font size=+0>Sign me,</font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="High Tower Text"><font size=+0>Unreconstructed Fart
Smeller</font></font></b></blockquote>
</html>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:29:49 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Another Legitimate Question
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Anybody have any experience with durability of Elgin-Butler glazed bricks in
severe weather areas (I'm thinking Chicago, Michigan, NY, etc)? They have
submitted excellent test results (including 650 freeze-thaw cycles without
failure, and very good IRA and COS numbers) for one of their glazed brick,
but would REALLY like to hear from (or of) somebody who's got this brick
installed in the weather. We understand (from the brick salesman) it's used
in Chicagoland subway stations, but whether this is indoors or out is
unclear.
Thanks.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Anybody have any experience with durability of Elgin-Butler glazed bricks in severe weather areas (I'm thinking Chicago, Michigan, NY, etc)? They have submitted excellent test results (including 650 freeze-thaw cycles without failure, and very good IRA and COS numbers) for one of their glazed brick, but would REALLY like to hear from (or of) somebody who's got this brick installed in the weather. We understand (from the brick salesman) it's used in Chicagoland subway stations, but whether this is indoors or out is unclear.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:52:49 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: quest 4 lime
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There are very few sources for Hydralic and non Hydralic lime
The Cheapest and the best pure high cal lime is Mississippi materials in
Alton Illnois
this is a carbonate putty and they do have a bag called codex; they do not
produce for the masonry trade per se so be patient but they will as the
demand grows
For histo presto specs and high dollar hydraliuc go Virginia lime works or
De grucy Masonry they will get it right out... this is the french lime St.
Astier they also have an excellent patch material...they are the top in the
field as they have a baged hydralic ; but the Americans will win out in time .
There is also Heritage lime putty ; excellent blue lilas from Wales broad
range of puttys
according to study the best for historic masonry in Non Hydralic; this
however is time consuming and takes a workshop for those not trained in it
One thing I have learned from all this is that "All lime is local" meaning
the lime used on your project was made local ...
.in France in the South all you see is St. Astier in the north all you see is
a putty color lime called Bladitol....my French masons swear by it ;but it is
unavailable in the US in England all you see is the blue lilas ..Best Pyrate
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>There are very few sources for Hydralic and non Hydralic lime
<BR>
<BR>The Cheapest and the best pure high cal lime is Mississippi materials in Alton Illnois
<BR>this is a carbonate putty and they do have a bag called codex; they do not produce for the masonry trade per se so be patient but they will as the demand grows
<BR>
<BR>For histo presto specs and high dollar hydraliuc go Virginia lime works or De grucy Masonry they will get it right out... this is the french lime St. Astier they also have an excellent patch material...they are the top in the field as they have a baged hydralic ; but the Americans will win out in time .
<BR>
<BR>There is also Heritage lime putty ; excellent blue lilas from Wales broad range of puttys
<BR>
<BR>according to study the best for historic masonry in Non Hydralic; this however is time consuming and takes a workshop for those not trained in it
<BR>
<BR>One thing I have learned from all this is that "All lime is local" meaning the lime used on your project was made local ...
<BR>.in France in the South all you see is St. Astier in the north all you see is a putty color lime called Bladitol....my French masons swear by it ;but it is unavailable in the US in England all you see is the blue lilas ..Best Pyrate</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:35:54 GMT
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
<Yeah I have great dislike for that son-of-a bitch also. I dislike <Sherman more than Lincoln.
I truly think this is something that is genetically programmed into all southerners. Sherman was an almost utter failure as a general having botched up several campiagns. Some would say due to alcohol. His successful campaign was the march to the sea, burning Atlanta along the way. Let's just be thankful that he didn't burn Savannah. I just love to hear all the theories about why he didn't burn it down. My favorite is that he had a woman there, what a load. Sherman spent some time in Savannah after graduating West Point before he was stationed in Florida. I have no idea why he didn't burn it, maybe he just liked it too much.
Nate Gillette
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:05:58 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.
Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire.
I kindly request that on BP we limit our scatalogical outbursts and name
calling to the appropriate historical vernacular of the 19th century or
earlier. The inclusion of modern tattles is not permitted here and is highly
offensive to those of us who prefer to think only old and authentic thoughts.
Shaman
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.<B><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></B>Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I kindly request that on BP we limit our scatalogical outbursts and name calling to the appropriate historical vernacular of the 19th century or earlier. The inclusion of modern tattles is not permitted here and is highly offensive to those of us who prefer to think only old and authentic thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
Shaman</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:12:21 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Excuse me but with a growing ground swell for the preservation of the modern
movement and the buildings of Mies becoming serious preservation projects we
should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be considered
old and authentic. Hope this does not offend any of the older historic
people.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Follett [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.
Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire.
I kindly request that on BP we limit our scatalogical outbursts and name
calling to the appropriate historical vernacular of the 19th century or
earlier. The inclusion of modern tattles is not permitted here and is highly
offensive to those of us who prefer to think only old and authentic
thoughts.
Shaman
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=335390914-20112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Excuse
me but with a growing ground swell for the preservation of the modern movement
and the buildings of Mies becoming serious preservation projects we should be
abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be considered old and
authentic. Hope this does not offend any of the older historic
people.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ken Follett
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:06
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: The quest for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Nanny
nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.<B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B>Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the
telephone wire.
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I kindly request that on BP we limit our scatalogical
outbursts and name calling to the appropriate historical vernacular of the
19th century or earlier. The inclusion of modern tattles is not permitted here
and is highly offensive to those of us who prefer to think only old and
authentic thoughts.<BR><BR>Shaman</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:45:05 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:12:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Excuse me but with a growing ground swell for the preservation of the modern movement and the buildings of Mies becoming serious preservation projects we should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be considered old and authentic. Hope this does not offend any of the older historic people.
Bob,
Who you callin' "old," sonny? And while you're at it, speak up, will ya?
Ralph
Old as the hills and twice as dusty, but so's the Grand Canyon and we still use it.
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:47:36 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:05:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> . The inclusion of modern tattles is not permitted here and is highly offensive to those of us who prefer to think only
> old and authentic thoughts.
][<en,
Whose tattles are you callin' modern, and who are you accusing of having new and inauthentic thoughts, Pops?
Ol' Man Ralph
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:51:11 -0500
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 8:35:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> My favorite is that he had a woman there, what a load.
Nate,
Are you calling Sherman a cornholer? Or worse, affectionally impaired?
Ralph
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:01:45 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for Lime
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In a message dated 11/20/02 8:37:48 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
> Sherman was an almost utter failure as a general having botched up several
> campiagns.
So, southerners don't drive Sherman tanks, either. Good to establish that.
Sign me, Rusty Volvo
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/20/02 8:37:48 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sherman was an almost utter failure as a general having botched up several campiagns. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
So, southerners don't drive Sherman tanks, either. Good to establish that. <BR>
Sign me, Rusty Volvo</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:26:17 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:17:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> we should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be
> considered old and authentic.
Got any examples of 1960s vintage name calling?
M
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:17:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> we should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be considered old and authentic.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Got any examples of 1960s vintage name calling?<BR>
<BR>
M</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:51:08 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Listen here you long hair hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you!
How is that?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Krugman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:17:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
we should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be
considered old and authentic.
Got any examples of 1960s vintage name calling?
M
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=846435015-20112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Listen
here you long hair hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat
fink-you!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=846435015-20112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=846435015-20112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>How is
that?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mary Krugman
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:26
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: The quest for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:17:01 AM
Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">we should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still
be considered old and authentic.</FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Got any examples of 1960s vintage name
calling?<BR><BR>M</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:21:25 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Effet Intellectual Snob.
"Score, Robert" wrote:
> Listen here you long hair hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat
> fink-you!How is that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Krugman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
>
> In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:17:01 AM Eastern Standard
> Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
> > we should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and
> > still be considered old and authentic.
>
> Got any examples of 1960s vintage name calling?
>
> M
>
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Effet Intellectual Snob.
<p>"Score, Robert" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <span class=846435015-20112002><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Listen
here you long hair hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you!</font></font></font></span><span class=846435015-20112002></span><span class=846435015-20112002><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>How
is that?</font></font></font></span>
<blockquote>
<div class=OutlookMessageHeader><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1>-----Original
Message-----</font></font>
<br><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1><b>From:</b> Mary Krugman
[<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</font></font>
<br><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday,
November 20, 2002 9:26 AM</font></font>
<br><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1><b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]</font></font>
<br><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</b> Re: The
quest for historical name calling</font></font>
<br> </div>
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>In a message dated 11/20/2002
9:17:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE"><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>we
should be abel to choose a vernacular up to c. 1960 and still be considered
old and authentic.</font></font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Got any examples
of 1960s vintage name calling?</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>M</font></font></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</html>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:26:39 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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In a message dated 11/20/02 10:54:31 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
It's "homo" and "rascal". Sincerely, Richie Heavens
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/20/02 10:54:31 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>It's "homo" and "rascal". Sincerely, Richie Heavens </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:33:10 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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Its "pinko" and Hippie-weirdo-freak"...and I don't remember no damned
rascals...and I'm pretty sure that rat-fink was never heard outside of
Junior High Schools and television. Hey, but what would I know, I was
studying.
-jc
Met History wrote:
> In a message dated 11/20/02 10:54:31 AM, [log in to unmask]
> writes:
>
>
>> hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you
>
> It's "homo" and "rascal". Sincerely, Richie Heavens
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Its "pinko" and Hippie-weirdo-freak"...and I don't remember no damned rascals...and
I'm pretty sure that rat-fink was never heard outside of Junior High Schools
and television. Hey, but what would I know, I was studying.
<p>-jc
<p>Met History wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1>In a message
dated 11/20/02 10:54:31 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty
raskel-rat fink-you</font></font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>It's
"homo" and "rascal". Sincerely,
Richie Heavens</font></font></font></blockquote>
</html>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:52:13 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:54:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Listen here you long hair hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you!
>
> How is that?
>
Ah.... I remember it well.
M
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:54:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Listen here you long hair hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you!</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">How is that?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Ah.... I remember it well. <BR>
<BR>
M</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:00:55 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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I thout that good Spellng and gramer were not required here. And I meant
commie-pinko not homo, but I guess both could be period appropriate.
-----Original Message-----
From: Met History [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
In a message dated 11/20/02 10:54:31 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat fink-you
It's "homo" and "rascal". Sincerely, Richie Heavens
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<DIV><SPAN class=305275916-20112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
thout that good Spellng and gramer were not required here. And I meant
commie-pinko not homo, but I guess both could be period
appropriate.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Met History
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:27
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face="Times New Roman" size=2
FAMILY="SERIF">In a message dated 11/20/02 10:54:31 AM,
[log in to unmask] writes: <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">hippy-freak-como-pinky-dirty raskel-rat
fink-you</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face="Times New Roman"
color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SERIF"><BR>It's "homo" and "rascal".
Sincerely, Richie Heavens
</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:31:11 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:26:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Got any examples of 1960s vintage name calling?
What's wrong with Liar, Liar Pants on Fire... I can personally certify it to latge 50's-early 60's, and suspect that most of the Pinheads (except Heidi) can do the same.
Ralph
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:57:25 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 12:00:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> I thout that good Spellng and gramer were not required here. And I meant commie-pinko not homo, but I guess both could
> be period appropriate.
Unfortunately, the distinguished whippersnapper from the great state of Illinois is correct about spelling and grammar as displayed here. He is also correct about commie pinkos and homos, but has omitted fag perverts and lesbo dykes from hell. Also marijuana suckers. Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
Ralph
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:01:03 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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"Youur ahh Dawg!"
(musical example)
cp in old 45's bc
(where my favourite 60's rock song line remains "I live for the sun, =
because it's fun." by the one hit wonder - The Sun Rays)
Got any examples of 1960s vintage name calling?
M
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Youur ahh Dawg!"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(musical example)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in old 45's bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(where my favourite 60's rock song=20
line remains "I live for the sun, because it's fun." by the one hit =
wonder=20
- The Sun Rays)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff" face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Got any examples of =
1960s vintage name=20
calling?<BR><BR>M</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:19:31 -0600
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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Ralph, are you suggesting that some or all of these may apply to me. If I
need to defend my honor let me and we can escalate this from name calling to
rummor spreading! I do appreciate that you gave me credit for being correct.
, but has omitted fag perverts and lesbo dykes from hell. Also marijuana
suckers. Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
Ralph
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ralph, are you suggesting that some or all of these =
may apply to me. If I need to defend my honor let me and we can =
escalate this from name calling to rummor spreading! I do appreciate =
that you gave me credit for being correct.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>, but has omitted fag perverts and lesbo dykes from =
hell. Also marijuana suckers. Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ralph</FONT>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:33:26 -0500
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From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: outhouses
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My dad always had me helping him take care of the 3 or 4 outhouses at a
little campgrounds called Grampa's Woods near Elmwood Nebraska. He'd tell me
to rehang the door on one, and I'd ask him if it should swing in or out.
He'd say, "Well Lem said they should always swing in." When we painted one
he'd say, "Lem said black & white is best." It was always Lem this, and Lem
that. I knew we didn't know any Lems, so I finally asked who Lem was.
Now my dad was an artist as a boy and worked at an art studio in Lincoln.
One of his jobs was painting the backdrops at the local theaters for the
vaudville acts, so he occasionally got to meet the actors. One he got to
know was Chic Sales, who told my dad many humorus stories about Lem, who was
a carpenter who only built outhouses, and billed himself as "The
Specialist". So, it was always loads of fun working with my dad on the
outhouses, because by the end of the job he would have me rolling on the
ground laughing about Lem and Chic's stories. I can't really remember any
of the stories right off, just always struggling to pick up the tools at the
end of a job with a belly ache from laughing so hard.
Lem and Chic is probably where my dad got the idea to research the use of
corncobs and outhouses in the little northeastern Nebraska village of
Verdigre -- but, I think I've already told that story here on BP.
John Leeke
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:20:12 EST
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From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for true lime never doth run straight
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In a message dated 11/19/2002 10:00:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> "Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire."
>
Sure you are, but what am I?
V.I.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/19/2002 10:00:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">"Liar, liar, pants on fire, hanging on the telephone wire."<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Sure you are, but what am I?<BR>
<BR>
V.I.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:25:02 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 1:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Ralph, are you suggesting that some or all of these may
> apply to me.
Let's just say that if the foo shits, wear it.
In the meantime, are you familiar with Elgin-Butler glazed brick, and more specifically its performance in harsh weather conditions there in the greater Chicagoland metro area, or in similar environments, so conceived and so dedicated. In other words, can it long endure? I need to know FAST.
Sign me,
Lend of Lincoln
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:42:23 EST
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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a vernacular up to c. 1960
Robert,
And a DocoMOOMOO to you!
Last thing I want is to sit in a glass walled jake.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">a vernacular up to c. 1960 </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Robert,<BR>
<BR>
And a DocoMOOMOO to you!<BR>
Last thing I want is to sit in a glass walled jake.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:45:44 EST
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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It's "homo"
I thought he was going for "commie," or is that too old even yetter?
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">It's "homo" </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I thought he was going for "commie," or is that too old even yetter?<BR>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:47:37 EST
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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I thout that good Spellng and gramer were not required here.
Good spelling is not required, but having some idea what the writer intends
is always appreciated.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I thout that good Spellng and gramer were not required here. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Good spelling is not required, but having some idea what the writer intends is always appreciated.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:48:29 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
Not really.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Not really.<BR>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:50:31 EST
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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Chic Sales, who told my dad many humorus stories about Lem, who was
a carpenter who only built outhouses, and billed himself as "The Specialist".
John,
The book I found on the way to Rhode Island is the one by Chic Sales. I'll
find it in the house and give you more particulars. Excepting for a bit of
chauvinism about making sure the trail to the outhouse is located next to the
wood pile, so that the wife will more efficiently carry in the fire wood, it
is smoothly humorous throughout.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Chic Sales, who told my dad many humorus stories about Lem, who was<BR>
a carpenter who only built outhouses, and billed himself as "The Specialist". </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
John,<BR>
<BR>
The book I found on the way to Rhode Island is the one by Chic Sales. I'll find it in the house and give you more particulars. Excepting for a bit of chauvinism about making sure the trail to the outhouse is located next to the wood pile, so that the wife will more efficiently carry in the fire wood, it is smoothly humorous throughout.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:09:56 -0500
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 5:50:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Excepting for a bit of chauvinism about making sure the trail to the outhouse is located next to the wood pile, so that the wife will more efficiently carry in the fire wood,
Now THAT'S offensive.
Fart Smeller
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:28:20 -0500
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From: "Mark W. James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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Last time I was in Idaho, I ran into a man whose Father had actually built a 4 hole out house. Now, maybe I could handle one other person in the same area with me, if it be an emergency situation, but four? My gosh, there isn't any worse way, I can think of to meet new friends and influence people. I'm told it is still standing, so I'll have to try to get a photo for those of you who are attracted to weird and unusual items.
By the way, I have been working with Bryan Blundell, here in Maryland for the past month. Rockville is not too bad, but not near as much fun now that the sniper is behind bars.
Cheers!
Mark
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:56:34 EST
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: What the other listservs are posting....
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From the Minnesota Public Radio/PHC bulletin board:
<A HREF="http:[log in to unmask]@.ee6b3e7">A Prairie Home Companion Chatterbox</A>
Please Assist - Titanium Hair Gel, posted by >Wes</A> - 5:11 pm, Nov. 20, 2002
I listened to a broadcast of Prarie Home Companion on November 17th, at about
noon central time. The sponser was "Titanium Hair Gel" and there was a very
nice segment with an action movie star and the myriad of uses for Titanium
Hair Gel. I've looked for a while now, and I can't find a place to listen to
it. Can someone please help? I need to hear this to complete an assignment.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><IMG SRC="http://forum.mpr.org/Images/b1/pixel.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="2" BORDER="0">From the Minnesota Public Radio/PHC bulletin board:<BR>
<BR>
<IMG SRC="http://forum.mpr.org/Images/i1/site.gif" WIDTH="19" HEIGHT="14" BORDER="0"> <A HREF="http:[log in to unmask]@.ee6b3e7">A Prairie Home Companion Chatterbox</A> <BR>
Please Assist - Titanium Hair Gel, posted by <A>Wes</A> - 5:11 pm, Nov. 20, 2002<BR>
<BR>
I listened to a broadcast of Prarie Home Companion on November 17th, at about noon central time. The sponser was "Titanium Hair Gel" and there was a very nice segment with an action movie star and the myriad of uses for Titanium Hair Gel. I've looked for a while now, and I can't find a place to listen to it. Can someone please help? I need to hear this to complete an assignment.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:37:56 EST
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 12:35:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> What's wrong with Liar, Liar Pants on Fire... I can personally certify it to
> latge 50's-early 60's, and suspect that most of the Pinheads (except Heidi)
> can do the same.
>
I can't you old Yankee fart.
Sign me,
Whipper Snapper
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 11/20/2002 12:35:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>What's wrong with Liar, Liar Pants on Fire... I can personally certify it to latge 50's-early 60's, and suspect that most of the Pinheads (except Heidi) can do the same.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B><BR>
I can't you old Yankee fart.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Whipper Snapper </B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:46:10 EST
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Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:20:26 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:38:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I can't you old Yankee fart.
>
You mind your manners, and add "sir" when you say that, boy.
Sign me,
Humor Czar Sherman I
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:38:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>I can't you old Yankee fart.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
You mind your manners, and add "sir" when you say that, boy.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Humor Czar Sherman I</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:24:02 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:46:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.
"Harm" me? "Harm" me? Whaddaya mean, "harm me?" What kind of candyassed
word is "harm?" You mean "hurt," right? Or can't you dumb Rebels even get
that much right?
Jeez, Louise!
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/20/2002 9:46:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.</B> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
"Harm" me? "Harm" me? Whaddaya mean, "harm me?" What kind of candyassed word is "harm?" You mean "hurt," right? Or can't you dumb Rebels even get that much right?<BR>
<BR>
Jeez, Louise!</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:30:49 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:21:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> You mind your manners, and add "sir" when you say that, boy.
>
Sir, yes sir, sir! I sure will sir. Thank you sir. I promise not to forget
sir. Yes sir, I will mind my manners sir.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:21:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>You mind your manners, and add "sir" when you say that, boy.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Sir, yes sir, sir! I sure will sir. Thank you sir. I promise not to forget sir. Yes sir, I will mind my manners sir.<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:44:34 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:23:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> "Harm" me? "Harm" me? Whaddaya mean, "harm me?" What kind of candyassed
> word is "harm?" You mean "hurt," right? Or can't you dumb Rebels even get
> that much right?
>
>
Sir Old Yankee Fart,
Pardon me I'm trying to be politically correct here. After that ass whipping
those Democrats took I'm trying to show some compassionate conservatism.
Can't we all just get along? Peace man. God damn unsociable Noo Yawkurs. You
mind your manners. Don't make me open a can of barefoot Georgia whoop ass.
Sign me,
Cracker Candyass
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:23:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>"Harm" me? "Harm" me? Whaddaya mean, "harm me?" What kind of candyassed word is "harm?" You mean "hurt," right? Or can't you dumb Rebels even get that much right?<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Sir Old Yankee Fart,<BR>
<BR>
Pardon me I'm trying to be politically correct here. After that ass whipping those Democrats took I'm trying to show some compassionate conservatism. Can't we all just get along? Peace man. God damn unsociable Noo Yawkurs. You mind your manners. Don't make me open a can of barefoot Georgia whoop ass. <BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Cracker Candyass</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:11:25 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Vynil window replacements
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I am always testing new materials when I get the chance. I tried a
vinyl window from China last year which looked like a very good deal.
They were the expensive double-insulated energy efficient windows. This
week I got a call from the contractor complaining that the work has been
done for a year and I had failed to pay for them. Boy, oh boy, did we go
round and round. I told him no one pulls a fast one on me. Heck, I'm in
the business. I proceeded to tell him just what his salesman told me
last year; "That in one year they would pay for themselves."
Best,
Leland
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=847000811-21112002>I am always
testing new materials when I get the chance. I tried a vinyl window from
China last year which looked like a very good deal. <FONT
size=2> They were the expensive double-insulated energy efficient windows.
This week I got a call from the contractor complaining that the work has been
done for a year and I had failed to pay for them. Boy, oh boy, did we go round
and round. I told him no one pulls a fast one on me. Heck, I'm in the
business. I proceeded to tell him just what his salesman told me last
year; "That in one year they would pay for
themselves."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=847000811-21112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=847000811-21112002>Best,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=847000811-21112002>Leland</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:29:03 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:31:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sir, yes sir, sir! I sure will sir. Thank you sir. I promise not to forget
> sir. Yes sir, I will mind my manners sir.
>
That's more like it. You keep practicing like that, and in a few years,
you'll be ready to speak to real New Yorkers.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/20/2002 10:31:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>Sir, yes sir, sir! I sure will sir. Thank you sir. I promise not to forget sir. Yes sir, I will mind my manners sir.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
That's more like it. You keep practicing like that, and in a few years, you'll be ready to speak to real New Yorkers.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:21:13 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
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No experience with EB glazed brick.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of Too-Young-To-Remember
In a message dated 11/20/2002 1:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ralph, are you suggesting that some or all of these may
> apply to me.
Let's just say that if the foo shits, wear it.
In the meantime, are you familiar with Elgin-Butler glazed brick, and more
specifically its performance in harsh weather conditions there in the
greater Chicagoland metro area, or in similar environments, so conceived and
so dedicated. In other words, can it long endure? I need to know FAST.
Sign me,
Lend of Lincoln
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>No experience with EB glazed brick.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ralph Walter [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:25 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: Name calling, Department of =
Too-Young-To-Remember</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated 11/20/2002 1:19:31 PM Eastern =
Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Ralph, are you suggesting that some or all of =
these may</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> apply to me.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Let's just say that if the foo shits, wear it.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In the meantime, are you familiar with Elgin-Butler =
glazed brick, and more specifically its performance in harsh weather =
conditions there in the greater Chicagoland metro area, or in similar =
environments, so conceived and so dedicated. In other words, can =
it long endure? I need to know FAST.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sign me,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lend of Lincoln</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among =
pals and the</FONT>
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ads.html</A>></FONT>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:22:34 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Could you please tell me what a "jake" is.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Follett [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
a vernacular up to c. 1960
Robert,
And a DocoMOOMOO to you!
Last thing I want is to sit in a glass walled jake.
][<en
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<DIV><SPAN class=92202313-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Could
you please tell me what a "jake" is.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ken Follett
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:42
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: The quest for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">a vernacular up to c. 1960
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Robert,<BR><BR>And a DocoMOOMOO to you!<BR>Last thing I
want is to sit in a glass walled jake.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:38:44 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled commonly
with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled with
Charmin.
-----Original Message-----
From: Score, Robert [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Could you please tell me what a "jake" is.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Follett [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
a vernacular up to c. 1960
Robert,
And a DocoMOOMOO to you!
Last thing I want is to sit in a glass walled jake.
][<en
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=527213713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled
commonly with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled
with Charmin.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Score, Robert
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21, 2002
8:23 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest for
historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=92202313-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Could
you please tell me what a "jake" is.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ken Follett
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:42
PM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest
for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">a vernacular up to c. 1960
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Robert,<BR><BR>And a
DocoMOOMOO to you!<BR>Last thing I want is to sit in a glass walled
jake.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_ko9O7kDpIb+7PeSGiPB97g)--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:42:33 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover named Amos
to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80 foot diameter
16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on multisided
barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I asked amos why
he left the amish community he told me that once he tried charmin he began
to realize that the outside world had great things to offer that the amish
did not.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled commonly
with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled with
Charmin.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C29163.D878A410
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover named
Amos to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80 foot diameter
16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on multisided barns,
even better was his stories about being amish. When I asked amos why he left the
amish community he told me that once he tried charmin he began to realize that
the outside world had great things to offer that the amish did
not.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21,
2002 7:39 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest for
historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=527213713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled
commonly with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled
with Charmin.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C29163.D878A410--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:48:19 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_YAR9aBHyjj40agYOEw1c7g)"
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Like indoor jakes?
-----Original Message-----
From: Score, Robert [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover named Amos
to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80 foot diameter
16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on multisided
barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I asked amos why
he left the amish community he told me that once he tried charmin he began
to realize that the outside world had great things to offer that the amish
did not.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled commonly
with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled with
Charmin.
--Boundary_(ID_YAR9aBHyjj40agYOEw1c7g)
Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=541434713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Like indoor jakes?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Score, Robert
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21, 2002
8:43 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest for
historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover named
Amos to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80 foot
diameter 16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on
multisided barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I asked
amos why he left the amish community he told me that once he tried charmin he
began to realize that the outside world had great things to offer that the
amish did not.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21,
2002 7:39 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest
for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=527213713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be
filled commonly with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often
be filled with Charmin.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_YAR9aBHyjj40agYOEw1c7g)--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:48:57 -0600
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I think that would be another plus. That and the new cadilas that he drove
to the meeting in (lots of horses pulling that buggy)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Like indoor jakes?
-----Original Message-----
From: Score, Robert [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover named Amos
to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80 foot diameter
16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on multisided
barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I asked amos why
he left the amish community he told me that once he tried charmin he began
to realize that the outside world had great things to offer that the amish
did not.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled commonly
with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled with
Charmin.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C29164.BCFFC0F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=535124913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
think that would be another plus. That and the new cadilas that he drove to the
meeting in (lots of horses pulling that buggy)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21,
2002 7:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest for
historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=541434713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Like indoor jakes?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Score, Robert
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21,
2002 8:43 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest
for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover
named Amos to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80
foot diameter 16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on
multisided barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I
asked amos why he left the amish community he told me that once he tried
charmin he began to realize that the outside world had great things to offer
that the amish did not.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November
21, 2002 7:39 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest
for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=527213713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject -
used to be filled commonly with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays
will often be filled with Charmin.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C29164.BCFFC0F0--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:52:58 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_yM/bP5wWZTfhh90v1X9tcw)"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--Boundary_(ID_yM/bP5wWZTfhh90v1X9tcw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does he own a PS2 now, too?
-----Original Message-----
From: Score, Robert [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
I think that would be another plus. That and the new cadilas that he drove
to the meeting in (lots of horses pulling that buggy)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Like indoor jakes?
-----Original Message-----
From: Score, Robert [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover named Amos
to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80 foot diameter
16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource on multisided
barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I asked amos why
he left the amish community he told me that once he tried charmin he began
to realize that the outside world had great things to offer that the amish
did not.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject - used to be filled commonly
with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but nowadays will often be filled with
Charmin.
--Boundary_(ID_yM/bP5wWZTfhh90v1X9tcw)
Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=620205213-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Does he own a PS2 now, too?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Score, Robert
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21, 2002
8:49 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest for
historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=535124913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
think that would be another plus. That and the new cadilas that he drove to
the meeting in (lots of horses pulling that buggy)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21,
2002 7:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest
for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=541434713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Like indoor jakes?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Score, Robert
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 21,
2002 8:43 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The quest
for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Speaking of charmin, I recently hired an former-amish barn mover
named Amos to help us figure out how to dissassemble and move an 80
foot diameter 16-sided dairy barn. Although Amos was a terrific resource
on multisided barns, even better was his stories about being amish. When I
asked amos why he left the amish community he told me that once he tried
charmin he began to realize that the outside world had great things to
offer that the amish did not.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=558233913-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November
21, 2002 7:39 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The
quest for historical name calling<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=527213713-21112002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>Portable jakes - Gab & Eti's favourite subject
- used to be filled commonly with Sears & Roebuck catalogs, but
nowadays will often be filled with Charmin.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_yM/bP5wWZTfhh90v1X9tcw)--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:03:51 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_67.2a97c03.2b0e41c7_boundary"
--part1_67.2a97c03.2b0e41c7_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Could you please tell me what a "jake" is.
A jake is an outhouse. ;-)
--part1_67.2a97c03.2b0e41c7_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Could you please tell me what a "jake" is.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
A jake is an outhouse. ;-)</FONT></HTML>
--part1_67.2a97c03.2b0e41c7_boundary--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:12:08 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CAB3FA81DDE554F8FDE9AF67"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------CAB3FA81DDE554F8FDE9AF67
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------037266BA15F553143F1A1977"
--------------037266BA15F553143F1A1977
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm Down around Broadway & Prince, NYC
A big storefront south of Canal Jeans- which is going out of business
adevretising YellowRatBastard, an avant garde clothing store [& I
remember when Canal Jeans was da bomb"] would need Dave Follet to tell
me what style clothes they are carrying. All I saw that I might wear
was a yellow "YellowRatBastard" ball cap- but I only know how to wear
the ones with the bill on the front....
DD
http://www.yellowratbastard.com/front.asp#
--------------037266BA15F553143F1A1977
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
I'm Down around Broadway & Prince, NYC
<br>A big storefront south of Canal Jeans- which is going out of business
adevretising YellowRatBastard, an avant garde clothing store [& I remember
when Canal Jeans was da bomb"] would need Dave Follet to tell me what style
clothes they are carrying. All I saw that I might wear was a yellow
"YellowRatBastard" ball cap- but I only know how to wear the ones with
the bill on the front....
<p>DD
<br> <a href="http://www.yellowratbastard.com/front.asp#"></a>
<p><a href="http://www.yellowratbastard.com/front.asp#">http://www.yellowratbastard.com/front.asp#</a></html>
--------------037266BA15F553143F1A1977--
--------------CAB3FA81DDE554F8FDE9AF67
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="ddedge.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for J.A. Drew Diaz
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="ddedge.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:40:04 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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not near as much fun now that the sniper is behind bars.
Mark, Obviously you have been too busy to get out much... the area has plenty
of unsavory characters to avoid... like down near the mall there is a whole
outhouse of snipers. ][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">not near as much fun now that the sniper is behind bars.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Mark, Obviously you have been too busy to get out much... the area has plenty of unsavory characters to avoid... like down near the mall there is a whole outhouse of snipers. ][<en<BR>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:40:57 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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Dave Follet to tell me what style clothes they are carrying
DD,
When we moved from Brooklyn, w/ David attending PS 3 in Manhattan, to LI
there was for him a significant epiphany over the subtle consiousness of
clothing style (city vs. suburb) that I don't think has ever quite left
him... how he tells the difference, and the social significance, of one sort
of brightly colored mess from another is beyond me (oddly also that he
revolted 100% against taking any sociology courses saying something to the
effect that sociology is complete BS). What I like is when in his
explanations he goes into connecting the socio-political connections of the
group dynamics with the appendages of the clothing. Which gets me to the
connections between how contractors dress (timber framers in leather
utili-kilts is really interesting, though I can do without their chocolates!)
and how architects and/or structural engineers tend to dress. Though I have
pencils & pens in my pockets I avoid wearing the ties in my closet, but a
sweater or sports jacket can be transformative. In the end it gets down to my
wanting to wear clothes that I can afford to lose after clambering over the
next roof ridge, a less likely event each day that passes, and busting an
inseam (but wandering around with your crotch done up in safety pins for the
remainder of the day can also be disconcerting). Then, even more amazing to
me, is when there is very little difference in the manner of dress between
professions -- enough that contractors at a workshop do not realize that they
may be surrounded by sympathetic architects. I'm also often taken awry by
mechanics that dress like rock stars... I mean, if you are going to be
breathing mortar dust all day (despite respirators that mess up the make-up
and hair) then why should one need to look like Madonna or Prince?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Dave Follet to tell me what style clothes they are carrying</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
DD,<BR>
<BR>
When we moved from Brooklyn, w/ David attending PS 3 in Manhattan, to LI there was for him a significant epiphany over the subtle consiousness of clothing style (city vs. suburb) that I don't think has ever quite left him... how he tells the difference, and the social significance, of one sort of brightly colored mess from another is beyond me (oddly also that he revolted 100% against taking any sociology courses saying something to the effect that sociology is complete BS). What I like is when in his explanations he goes into connecting the socio-political connections of the group dynamics with the appendages of the clothing. Which gets me to the connections between how contractors dress (timber framers in leather utili-kilts is really interesting, though I can do without their chocolates!) and how architects and/or structural engineers tend to dress. Though I have pencils & pens in my pockets I avoid wearing the ties in my closet, but a sweater or sports jacket can be transformative. In the end it gets down to my wanting to wear clothes that I can afford to lose after clambering over the next roof ridge, a less likely event each day that passes, and busting an inseam (but wandering around with your crotch done up in safety pins for the remainder of the day can also be disconcerting). Then, even more amazing to me, is when there is very little difference in the manner of dress between professions -- enough that contractors at a workshop do not realize that they may be surrounded by sympathetic architects. I'm also often taken awry by mechanics that dress like rock stars... I mean, if you are going to be breathing mortar dust all day (despite respirators that mess up the make-up and hair) then why should one need to look like Madonna or Prince?<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:02:56 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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In a message dated 11/21/2002 4:41:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> a whole outhouse of snipers.
On my way home tonight, I saw 3 jakes ganged together and being removed by
crane from the roof (40+ stories, I' imagine) of the new building on the S
side of 42 St opposite the old Times Tower. One of them seemed to be pretty
close to tipping over just as it reached the street.
Never heard of a shithouse being called a jake before; we called 'em kybos
(Keep Your Bowels Open) in Boy Scouts for awhile, but never heard nothin
about no jake.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/21/2002 4:41:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">a whole outhouse of snipers.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
On my way home tonight, I saw 3 jakes ganged together and being removed by crane from the roof (40+ stories, I' imagine) of the new building on the S side of 42 St opposite the old Times Tower. One of them seemed to be pretty close to tipping over just as it reached the street.<BR>
<BR>
Never heard of a shithouse being called a jake before; we called 'em kybos (Keep Your Bowels Open) in Boy Scouts for awhile, but never heard nothin about no jake.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:24:27 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: outhouse
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>> Excepting for a bit of chauvinism about making sure the trail to the
outhouse is located next >>to the wood pile, so that the wife will more
efficiently carry in the fire wood,
>
>Now THAT'S offensive.
Would that be as offensive as building the scaffolding right next to the
barn so that the wife would more effeciently paint the side of the barn
while she is carrying in the fire wood? (which I did, which she did, but
don't worry, I kept close track of the time so she would be sure to have
dinner ready)
John
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:43:07 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouse
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In a message dated 11/21/2002 5:24:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Would that be as offensive as building the scaffolding right next to the barn so that the wife would more effeciently paint the side of the barn while she is carrying in the fire wood? (which I did, which she did, but don't worry, I kept close track of the time so she would be sure to have dinner ready)
John,
This shows good planning. The previous proposal was offensive.
Mr. Subtle
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:34:19 -0800
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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An historic restaurant in Barkerville, an 1800's gold-rush town historic =
site here in BC, is named "The Wake Up Jake". I always puzzled over =
that name, but maybe this thread is some sort of answer.
An historic B&W photo from the original old part of Tucson, Ariz. shows =
a three story "jake" beside a rooming house. That photo was an =
architectural eye-opener.
cp in bc
where the air is always clean and smells nice
Never heard of a shithouse being called a jake before;
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An historic restaurant in=20
Barkerville, an 1800's gold-rush town historic site here in =
BC, is=20
named "The Wake Up Jake". I always puzzled over that name, =
but maybe=20
this thread is some sort of answer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An historic B&W photo =
from the=20
original old part of Tucson, Ariz. shows a three story "jake" =
beside a=20
rooming house. That photo was an architectural=20
eye-opener.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>where the air is always clean and =
smells=20
nice</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Never heard =
of a shithouse=20
being called a jake =
before;</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:23:05 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vinyl Replacement Windows
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Leland writes:
>>the business. I proceeded to tell him just what his salesman told me
last year; "That in one year they would pay for themselves."<<
Yes, but the salesman also told you "replacement windows," and now it is
time to replace them. First they hook you with a one-year free sample, but
now that you are hooked on a petro-chemical dependence, you must pay, and
pay, and pay. We should all feel sorry for Leland, this is a disease, not a
matter of will or choice.
John
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:47:23 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Replacement Windows
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In a message dated 11/22/2002 8:23:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> We should all feel sorry for Leland, this is a disease, not
> a
> matter of will or choice.
Au contraire, mon frere. He chose these shitty replacement windows.
Ralph
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:52:56 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Critique of Pure Vinyl Replacement Windows
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In a message dated 11/22/02 8:48:39 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
> He chose these shitty replacement windows.
>
I bet it was his upbringing that did it. Sign me, Free Will(y)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/22/02 8:48:39 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">He chose these shitty replacement windows.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">I bet it was his upbringing that did it. Sign me, Free Will(y)
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:14:21 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Replacement Windows
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2922b$69026990$0e91c3d8@GWJohn>
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Sheese.... You don't really think I put vinyl replacement windows on my
house, do you? Yes, I used to live in a raised ranch with vinyl siding,
but so do/did you John. And you maintain it. And what about the guy in
the tin hotel? On the other hand I have tried working with the new all
vinyl, trim material. It cuts, shapes, miters and routs nicely and if
you rough it up and paint it, or if it is beyond two meters distance is
indistinguishable from wood. You need to be careful that the substrate
is very flat and even, or it will vignette or follow form, but the flip
side is that is very fast on curves and can be back beveled with a mat
knife or plane while installing. No back priming, fitting and removing
before installation. I had samples outside for three months and
measured and remeasured dimensionally in many conditions and it is very
stable, unlike all the composites. Not for everyone, but promising in
many applications.
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: make easy -- get sakcrete
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Leeke
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Vinyl Replacement Windows
Leland writes:
>>the business. I proceeded to tell him just what his salesman told me
last year; "That in one year they would pay for themselves."<<
Yes, but the salesman also told you "replacement windows," and now it is
time to replace them. First they hook you with a one-year free sample,
but now that you are hooked on a petro-chemical dependence, you must
pay, and pay, and pay. We should all feel sorry for Leland, this is a
disease, not a matter of will or choice.
John
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:46:32 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
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From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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<p>Ken Follett wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Dave Follet to tell
me what style clothes they are carrying</font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>DD,</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>When we moved from Brooklyn, w/ David
attending PS 3 in Manhattan, to LI there was for him a significant epiphany
over the subtle consiousness of clothing style (city vs. suburb) that I
don't think has ever quite left him... how he tells the difference, and
the social significance, of one sort of brightly colored mess from another
is beyond me</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>My favorite is when I get on an
elevator w/ guys wearing different Turbans-</font></font></i>
<br><i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>All I know is that it's not like
picking out a Tie, these guys are sending each other messages- to which
I am not hip.</font></font></i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1> Though I have pencils & pens
in my pockets I avoid wearing the ties in my closet, but a sweater or sports
jacket can be transformative.</font></font><i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font></i>
<p><i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>When I started in Manhattan, I mentioned
to an aqquaintance [a bigtime rich guy] how freaked I was over buying suits-</font></font></i>
<br><i><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>he counseled that when I was a
carpenter I bought 1st grade tools & that suits were just another tool.</font></font></i>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>In the end it gets down to my wanting
to wear clothes that I can afford to lose after clambering over the next
roof ridge, a less likely event each day that passes, and busting an inseam
(but wandering around with your crotch done up in safety pins for the remainder
of the day can also be disconcerting).</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Then, even more amazing to me, is when
there is very little difference in the manner of dress between professions
-- enough that contractors at a workshop do not realize that they may be
surrounded by s<i>ympathetic architects.</i> - <b><i>an oxymoron</i></b></font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>somewhere I have an essay I wrote about
the footwear preferneces of tradesmen in Denver- which is probably hopelessly
outdated</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I'm also often taken awry by mechanics
that dress like rock stars... I mean, if you are going to be breathing
mortar dust all day (despite respirators that mess up the make-up and hair)
then why should one need to look like Madonna or Prince?</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>][<en</font></font></html>
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n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:58:25 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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An historic B&W photo from the original old part of Tucson, Ariz. shows a
three story "jake" beside a rooming house.
Culyer, I'd like to see this. Seriously. ;-) ][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">An historic B&W photo from the original old part of Tucson, Ariz. shows a three story "jake" beside a rooming house. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Culyer, I'd like to see this. Seriously. ;-) ][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:09:23 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: 2 Jakes
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Content-Description: Card for J.A. Drew Diaz
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begin:vcard
n:Diaz;J.A. Drew
tel;cell:917.971.1577
tel;fax:212.741.7423
tel;work:212.741.7348
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://edgedc.com/
org:EDGE Development Construction
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
adr;quoted-printable:;;Suite 1205=0D=0A150 W 28th St;NY;NY;10001;http://edgedc.com/
note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
fn:Drew Diaz
end:vcard
--------------068DB611455D0B7461133B6D--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:20:02 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Jakes
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You're pulling my jake, right?
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">You're pulling my jake, right?</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:32:04 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Bruce Marcham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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On Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:33 AM John Leeke wrote:
built outhouses, and billed himself as "The Specialist"
>
I remember when I was at Boy Scout camp (Camp Barton on Cayuga Lake, north
of Ithaca) I spent a weekend at camp, something that usually only a dozen or
so guys did. In order to keep us entertained (and out of trouble) the guy
who was in charge sat us down after dinner and read us a short story about a
person who built privies. I imagine the story read was "The Specialist" as
I recall being impressed by the praciticality of the idea about locating the
woodpile on the way to the privy. My recollection is that the idea was the
woman would be less embarassed by going out to the privy and finding
occupied if she could make it look as if she was really going out to get a
load of wood.
Regarding the multiple-hole outhouses my girlfriend told me about going to a
bathroom in a restaurant with a friend (as stereotypes often say women do)
and finding that there were two toilets side by side with no partitions. I
gather in the Army barracks of old this was common (as are gang showers for
men) but not so common in women's facilities.
As to the three-story outhouse there is a photo set circulating about
redneck life that has a "contemporary" two story one.
Bruce "prefers the Kohler flush to a Clivus Multrum" anyday...
Humanure http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#specialist
"The Specialist"
by Charles Sale, illustrated by William Kermode, Putnam, ISBN 0911416005
The wonderful story of Lem Putt, country carpenter and specialist builder of
privies. Lem actually existed, and Chic Sale knew him, and both lampoons him
and respects him as "an artist in his way". Sale was an actor and
"performed" this story hundreds of times, and by the time he wrote it (to
copyright it in order to stop other actors stealing it) he had it honed to
perfection. It's a rare delight. And it's more than that: Lem Putt knew his
business. "There's a lot of fine points to puttin' up a first-class privy
that the average man don't think about. It's no job for an amachoor, take
you my word on it. There's a whole lot more to it than you can see by just
takin' a few squints at your nabor's." This is what a water and sanitation
engineer who works in developing countries said about it: "If I could
recommend one course book for all wastewater engineers this would be it."
Not just wastewater engineers -- Lem Putt's fine points should be
everybody's fine points. Full-text online.
Here's the entire "Specialist" story (it's short) on-line with great
illustrations:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/specialist.html
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<TITLE>RE: outhouses</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:33 AM John Leeke =
wrote: </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>built outhouses, and billed himself as "The =
Specialist"</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I remember when I was at Boy Scout camp (Camp Barton =
on Cayuga Lake, north of Ithaca) I spent a weekend at camp, something =
that usually only a dozen or so guys did. In order to keep us =
entertained (and out of trouble) the guy who was in charge sat us down =
after dinner and read us a short story about a person who built =
privies. I imagine the story read was "The Specialist" =
as I recall being impressed by the praciticality of the idea about =
locating the woodpile on the way to the privy. My recollection is =
that the idea was the woman would be less embarassed by going out to =
the privy and finding occupied if she could make it look as if she was =
really going out to get a load of wood.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regarding the multiple-hole outhouses my girlfriend =
told me about going to a bathroom in a restaurant with a friend (as =
stereotypes often say women do) and finding that there were two toilets =
side by side with no partitions. I gather in the Army barracks of =
old this was common (as are gang showers for men) but not so common in =
women's facilities.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>As to the three-story outhouse there is a photo set =
circulating about redneck life that has a "contemporary" two =
story one. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bruce "prefers the Kohler flush to a Clivus =
Multrum" anyday...</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Humanure <A =
HREF=3D"http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#specialist" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#speciali=
st</A></FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>"The Specialist"</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>by Charles Sale, illustrated by William Kermode, =
Putnam, ISBN 0911416005</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The wonderful story of Lem Putt, country carpenter =
and specialist builder of privies. Lem actually existed, and Chic Sale =
knew him, and both lampoons him and respects him as "an artist in =
his way". Sale was an actor and "performed" this story =
hundreds of times, and by the time he wrote it (to copyright it in =
order to stop other actors stealing it) he had it honed to perfection. =
It's a rare delight. And it's more than that: Lem Putt knew his =
business. "There's a lot of fine points to puttin' up a =
first-class privy that the average man don't think about. It's no job =
for an amachoor, take you my word on it. There's a whole lot more to it =
than you can see by just takin' a few squints at your nabor's." =
This is what a water and sanitation engineer who works in developing =
countries said about it: "If I could recommend one course book for =
all wastewater engineers this would be it." Not just wastewater =
engineers -- Lem Putt's fine points should be everybody's fine points. =
Full-text online. </FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Here's the entire "Specialist" story (it's =
short) on-line with great illustrations:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/specialist.html" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/specialist.ht=
ml</A></FONT>
</P>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:32:46 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The quest for historical name calling
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1st grade tools & that suits were just another tool.
Drew,
Different tools, different intentions of work. I like wearing a suit every
few years but try to avoid them otherwise. Besides, I got friends that wear
suits and it is a hell of a lot more interesting to invite them along on a
project for decor than not. I was wearing a tie for a while but found that
they cut off the circulation and increased my frequency of emergency room
visits, that is, before the ablation... and since then wearing a tie just has
not seemed quite as satisfying of an experience as it used to be. I think it
has to do with a confusion over not knowing who I care to impress. A project
manager, engineer I worked with years ago I was always impressed how he
dressed like a slob, drove a junker, but knew his work inside out and ran
circles around everyone else on the project. Then he got a stroke and nobody
knows him any more.
The Sedaris book was hilarious and I read it on the Vermont trip to the
Timber Framers Guild conference. We also spent a nice day driving on dirt
roads in the Green Mountains and getting really well disoriented. We were on
a self guided northern Vermont bookstore tour. Dirt roads that go up and up
then end in a sparse birch wood, without going over the ridge, are neat.
Neater still the passes that say they are closed in winter. Signs warning
black bears. Great autumn color, then a few days later it snowed. We got
home across the sound before the ice storm came along. No incident of trucks
driving off the ferry for us... though I am really clear on where the semi
rolled off this week on the New London... went on that ferry not too long
back on a great day of fog.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><I>1st grade tools & that suits were just another tool.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></I> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Drew, <BR>
<BR>
Different tools, different intentions of work. I like wearing a suit every few years but try to avoid them otherwise. Besides, I got friends that wear suits and it is a hell of a lot more interesting to invite them along on a project for decor than not. I was wearing a tie for a while but found that they cut off the circulation and increased my frequency of emergency room visits, that is, before the ablation... and since then wearing a tie just has not seemed quite as satisfying of an experience as it used to be. I think it has to do with a confusion over not knowing who I care to impress. A project manager, engineer I worked with years ago I was always impressed how he dressed like a slob, drove a junker, but knew his work inside out and ran circles around everyone else on the project. Then he got a stroke and nobody knows him any more.<BR>
<BR>
The Sedaris book was hilarious and I read it on the Vermont trip to the Timber Framers Guild conference. We also spent a nice day driving on dirt roads in the Green Mountains and getting really well disoriented. We were on a self guided northern Vermont bookstore tour. Dirt roads that go up and up then end in a sparse birch wood, without going over the ridge, are neat. Neater still the passes that say they are closed in winter. Signs warning black bears. Great autumn color, then a few days later it snowed. We got home across the sound before the ice storm came along. No incident of trucks driving off the ferry for us... though I am really clear on where the semi rolled off this week on the New London... went on that ferry not too long back on a great day of fog.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:07:09 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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"...there is a photo set circulating about redneck life that has a
"contemporary" two story one"
Bruce,
The version I have has the upper level labeled MANAGMENT and the lower level
EMPLOYEES.
Thanks for the full text reference to The Specialist! As I recall the book I
have is a 1929 edition, though I might better check before bragging.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">"...there is a photo set circulating about redneck life that has a "contemporary" two story one"</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Bruce,<BR>
<BR>
The version I have has the upper level labeled MANAGMENT and the lower level EMPLOYEES.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the full text reference to The Specialist! As I recall the book I have is a 1929 edition, though I might better check before bragging.<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:46:27 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Mark W. James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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In a message dated 11/21/2002 4:40:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>not near as much fun now that the sniper is behind bars.
>
>Mark, Obviously you have been too busy to get out much... the area has plenty
>of unsavory characters to avoid... like down near the mall there is a whole
>outhouse of snipers. ][<en
>
Yeah, I'm kind of over in the South East section of Rockville, which for some damn reason, I can never figure out where I am in relation to anything else. I need a compass everytime I venture out. I could go out for lunch, and they have no idea when I might show back up. The problem is, I don't know either. The worst experience has been those damn circles in DC. I was asked to move Bryan's truck one night at the National Trust, where he was teaching class. Seemed simple enough, I was on Massachusetts and 18th. Well I hit the circle, and came back around, to hit the same street, but ended up on Rhode Island. Needless to say, I missed most of the class. Blocks are not layed out in normal fashion. One wrong turn, next thing you know, you are in another State.
Gawd, and I thought Oregon was nuts!
Mark
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:27:44 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "S. Stokowski" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: DC, was Re: outhouses
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In a message dated 11/22/02 3:47:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Blocks are not layed out in normal fashion.
Mark:
The DC street system used to confuse me until I lived there. Then, the scales
fell from my eyes. Most of the streets in DC itself are either N-S (numbers)
or E-W (letters). The streets are organized by quadrants with the Capital
Building at the center. There are four quadrants (NE, NW, SE, SW), but NE
and NW are the only two of any size. Imprinted on top of this is a repeating
radial pattern of avenues with different state or other proper names. Of
these, only a few turned into actual driving routes. These are Connecticut,
Florida, Massachusetts, South Dakota, Pennsylvania, and New York Avenues.
The avenues come together at circles. To navigate a circle, one needs to
develop a 1,000 yard stare. Decide where you want to go before the circle
and keep an eye on that spot as you make the turn. If you mess up, then just
get onto the N-S or E-W streets and correct the problem. It is really very
simple to geographically locate oneself in DC.
Parking, however, is a different issue. It is expensive and time-consuming
to park in DC. I recommend parking remotely and taking the METRO everywhere.
I always do, and I was a DC local.
I carry and use a compass to get me instantly going in the correct direction
when I come out of a subway station. Going the correct direction helps to
prevent somebody from identifying you as prey.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/22/02 3:47:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Blocks are not layed out in normal fashion.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Mark:<BR>
<BR>
The DC street system used to confuse me until I lived there. Then, the scales fell from my eyes. Most of the streets in DC itself are either N-S (numbers) or E-W (letters). The streets are organized by quadrants with the Capital Building at the center. There are four quadrants (NE, NW, SE, SW), but NE and NW are the only two of any size. Imprinted on top of this is a repeating radial pattern of avenues with different state or other proper names. Of these, only a few turned into actual driving routes. These are Connecticut, Florida, Massachusetts, South Dakota, Pennsylvania, and New York Avenues. The avenues come together at circles. To navigate a circle, one needs to develop a 1,000 yard stare. Decide where you want to go before the circle and keep an eye on that spot as you make the turn. If you mess up, then just get onto the N-S or E-W streets and correct the problem. It is really very simple to geographically locate oneself in DC.<BR>
<BR>
Parking, however, is a different issue. It is expensive and time-consuming to park in DC. I recommend parking remotely and taking the METRO everywhere. I always do, and I was a DC local. <BR>
<BR>
I carry and use a compass to get me instantly going in the correct direction when I come out of a subway station. Going the correct direction helps to prevent somebody from identifying you as prey. <BR>
<BR>
Steve Stokowski<BR>
Stone Products Consultants<BR>
Building Products Microscopy<BR>
10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:17:55 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DC French Radiators
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This business with diagonal and crooked streets is bullshit. If rectangular
grid plans were good enough for the Greeks and/or Romans, they're good enough
for everybody else, and everybody since. No irregular shaped blocks, no
irregular lots, no irregular plans, no irregular elevations. The hell with
these cow track and French radiator streets.
Sign me,
Plumb Level Straight and True
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">This business with diagonal and crooked streets is bullshit. If rectangular grid plans were good enough for the Greeks and/or Romans, they're good enough for everybody else, and everybody since. No irregular shaped blocks, no irregular lots, no irregular plans, no irregular elevations. The hell with these cow track and French radiator streets.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
Plumb Level Straight and True</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:08:26 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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In a message dated 11/22/2002 11:33:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Bruce "prefers the Kohler flush to a Clivus Multrum" anyday...
You got dat right.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/22/2002 11:33:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Bruce "prefers the Kohler flush to a Clivus Multrum" anyday...</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
You got dat right.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:21:05 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critique of Pure Vinyl Replacement Windows
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In a message dated 11/22/2002 8:53:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >> He chose these shitty replacement windows.
>>
> I bet it was his upbringing that did it. Sign me, Free Will(y)
>
Perhaps, but in choosing the shitty replacement windows because of his
upbringing, he degraded his environment.
Who came first: the Chechen or the egg?
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/22/2002 8:53:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">He chose these shitty replacement windows. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">I bet it was his upbringing that did it. Sign me, Free Will(y) <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Perhaps, but in choosing the shitty replacement windows because of his upbringing, he degraded his environment.<BR>
<BR>
Who came first: the Chechen or the egg?<BR>
<BR>
Ralph </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:23:01 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses - Smith, or Vassar?
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In a message dated 11/22/02 11:33:04 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
> Regarding the multiple-hole outhouses my girlfriend told me about going to a
> bathroom in a restaurant with a friend (as stereotypes often say women do)
> and finding that there were two toilets side by side with no partitions. I
> gather in the Army barracks of old this was common (as are gang showers for
> men) but not so common in women's facilities.
From the architect Arthur Loomis Harmon's 1923 account of his new Allerton
House, a women's hotel built in 1924 at 57th and Lexington, published in the
magazine Architecture:
[although men's hotels he designed had only showers, the Allerton House had
mostly bathtubs, although he did have to put in a few showers] "a testimony
to the influence of women's college gymnasiums".
No mention of where the woodpile was. Sincerely, wbf
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/22/02 11:33:04 AM , [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Regarding the multiple-hole outhouses my girlfriend told me about going to a bathroom in a restaurant with a friend (as stereotypes often say women do) and finding that there were two toilets side by side with no partitions. I gather in the Army barracks of old this was common (as are gang showers for men) but not so common in women's facilities.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>From the architect Arthur Loomis Harmon's 1923 account of his new Allerton House, a women's hotel built in 1924 at 57th and Lexington, published in the magazine Architecture:
<BR>
<BR>[although men's hotels he designed had only showers, the Allerton House had mostly bathtubs, although he did have to put in a few showers] "a testimony to the influence of women's college gymnasiums".
<BR>
<BR>No mention of where the woodpile was. Sincerely, wbf</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:42:52 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: outhouses
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RE: outhousesI remember when I was at Boy Scout camp (Camp Barton on =
Cayuga Lake, north of Ithaca) I spent a weekend at camp, something that =
usually only a dozen or so guys did. . . . . . . . .=20
Ah yes;
A delightful memory of the same place and same situation involved =
slipping off during one "Rest Period" after lunch on a secret hike with =
some chums and finding a lone apple tree way up the hill above the tent =
campsites and learning from an elder camper the fine art of apple-on-a =
stick long distance apple launching, sending apples down over the trees =
in the directions of campsites below and judging the target results by =
the sounds of loud voices that occasionally rose up when we hit the =
tents of obediently resting campers, the prize sound being the special =
hollow thunk of hitting an outhouse roof. Learned more about =
trajectory physics that way than any other. Also learned how to run =
like the wind when we hit the Assistant Camp Leader who had left the =
office to see what all the shouting was about up in the camps during =
"Rest Period".
cp in bc
Did you ever hear the Lake Drums?
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: outhouses</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I remember when I was at Boy Scout camp (Camp Barton =
on Cayuga=20
Lake, north of Ithaca) I spent a weekend at camp, something that usually =
only a=20
dozen or so guys did. . . . . . . . . </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ah yes;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A delightful memory of the same place and same=20
situation involved slipping off during one "Rest Period" after =
lunch on a=20
secret hike with some chums and finding a lone apple tree way up =
the hill=20
above the tent campsites and learning from an elder camper the fine art =
of=20
apple-on-a stick long distance apple launching, sending apples down over =
the=20
trees in the directions of campsites below and judging the target =
results by the=20
sounds of loud voices that occasionally rose up when we hit the =
tents of=20
obediently resting campers, the prize sound being the special =
hollow thunk=20
of hitting an outhouse roof. Learned more about=20
trajectory physics that way than any other. Also =
learned how to=20
run like the wind when we hit the Assistant Camp Leader who had =
left the=20
office to see what all the shouting was about up in the =
camps during "Rest=20
Period".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Did you ever hear the Lake =
Drums?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:10:43 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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The photo ot the three story multi-holer, two per floor, was in the =
Tucson Museum collection in 1965 when I was there assisting with =
exhibits and teaching metal casting classes. Anyone on the list here =
today from Arizona and able to go visit the Museum?
The jake-tower stood slightly independent of the main building and was =
connected by little tiny short bridges to the porches running around the =
building at each floor level. Each compartment of seats was offset from =
the one above it. The top bridgette was the longest. I always =
wondered about the sound effects in that jake-place.
cp in bc
(looking out the window at cactus here at the very Northern tip of the =
Great Sonora Desert)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ken Follett=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
An historic B&W photo from the original old part of Tucson, Ariz. =
shows a three story "jake" beside a rooming house. =20
Culyer, I'd like to see this. Seriously. ;-) ][<en
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The photo ot the three story =
multi-holer, two=20
per floor, was in the Tucson Museum collection in 1965 when I was=20
there assisting with exhibits and teaching metal casting=20
classes. Anyone on the list here today from Arizona and able =
to go=20
visit the Museum?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The jake-tower stood =
slightly independent of=20
the main building and was connected by little tiny short bridges to the =
porches=20
running around the building at each floor level. =
Each compartment of=20
seats was offset from the one above it. The top bridgette =
was the=20
longest. I always wondered about the sound effects in =
that=20
jake-place.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(looking out the window at cactus here =
at the very=20
Northern tip of the Great Sonora Desert)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Ken Follett</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
[log in to unmask]
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">BULLAMANKA-PINH=
[log in to unmask]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 22, 2002 =
7:58=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 3 Jakes</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3DArial size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">An historic B&W photo from the original old =
part of=20
Tucson, Ariz. shows a three story "jake" beside a rooming =
house. =20
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Culyer, I'd like to see this. =
Seriously. ;-)=20
][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:29:05 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: William Gould <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
In-Reply-To: <000301c292e2$5e4157c0$0e5335d1@default>
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on 11/23/02 6:10 AM, Cuyler Page at [log in to unmask] wrote:
So where did you post this photo for us to see now that we have all been
tempted.
The photo ot the three story multi-holer, two per floor, was in the Tucson
Museum collection in 1965 when I was there assisting with exhibits and
teaching metal casting classes. Anyone on the list here today from Arizona
and able to go visit the Museum?
The jake-tower stood slightly independent of the main building and was
connected by little tiny short bridges to the porches running around the
building at each floor level. Each compartment of seats was offset from the
one above it. The top bridgette was the longest. I always wondered about
the sound effects in that jake-place.
cp in bc
(looking out the window at cactus here at the very Northern tip of the Great
Sonora Desert)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Follett <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
An historic B&W photo from the original old part of Tucson, Ariz. shows a
three story "jake" beside a rooming house.
Culyer, I'd like to see this. Seriously. ;-) ][<en
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<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: 3 Jakes</TITLE>
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on 11/23/02 6:10 AM, Cuyler Page at [log in to unmask] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
So where did you post this photo for us to see now that we have all been te=
mpted.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">The photo ot the three story =
multi-holer, two per floor, was in the Tucson Museum collection in 1965 when=
I was there assisting with exhibits and teaching metal casting classes. &nb=
sp; Anyone on the list here today from Arizona and able to go visit the=
Museum?<BR>
</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">The jake-tower stood slightly independent=
of the main building and was connected by little tiny short bridges to the =
porches running around the building at each floor level. Each compartm=
ent of seats was offset from the one above it. The top bridgette=
was the longest. I always wondered about the sound effects in t=
hat jake-place.<BR>
</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">cp in bc<BR>
(looking out the window at cactus here at the very Northern tip of the Grea=
t Sonora Desert)<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<B>From:</B> Ken Follett <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <BR>
<B>To:</B> [log in to unmask] <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 22, 2002 7:58 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: 3 Jakes<BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">An historic B&W photo from the origin=
al old part of Tucson, Ariz. shows a three story "jake" beside a r=
ooming house. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Culyer, I'd like to see this. Seriously. ;-) ][<en</FONT></FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BODY>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:37:22 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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In a message dated 11/23/2002 6:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> The photo ot the three story multi-holer, two per floor, was in the Tucson
> Museum collection in 1965 when I was there assisting with exhibits and
> teaching metal casting classes. If you were teaching in 1965, we should
> all be calling you "sir." Anyone on the list here today from Arizona and
> able to go visit the Museum?
> I spent 5 years in Arch school in Tempe, after thinking I'd applied to the
> U of A. Does that count as "from" Arizona?
> The jake-tower stood slightly independent of the main building and was
> connected by little tiny short bridges to the porches running around the
> building at each floor level. Each compartment of seats was offset from
> the one above it. Good planning! The top bridgette was the longest. What a
> relief (so to speak) I always wondered about the sound effects in that
> jake-place. You are a sick, old man. All seriousness aside, I should think
> that a 3 story bldg in Tucson would have come along rather late (80's or
> 90's) in it's development; I seem to remember newspaper reports from the
> 80's in Penix which referred jokingly to a 2 (or maybe 3 story) "looming"
> over the central plaza.
> cp in bc
> (looking out the window at cactus here at the very Northern tip of the
> Great Sonora Desert) Yeah, and Chris looks out his windows at Central Park,
> the last bit remaining of the eastern tip of the Sonoran desert.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/23/2002 6:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The photo ot the three story multi-holer, two per floor, was in the Tucson Museum collection in 1965 when I was there assisting with exhibits and teaching metal casting classes. <B>If you were teaching in 1965, we should all be calling you "sir."</B> Anyone on the list here today from Arizona and able to go visit the Museum?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>I spent 5 years in Arch school in Tempe, after thinking I'd applied to the U of A. Does that count as "from" Arizona?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The jake-tower stood slightly independent of the main building and was connected by little tiny short bridges to the porches running around the building at each floor level. Each compartment of seats was offset from the one above it. <B>Good planning!</B> The top bridgette was the longest. <B>What a relief (so to speak)</B> I always wondered about the sound effects in that jake-place. <B>You are a sick, old man. All seriousness aside, I should think that a 3 story bldg in Tucson would have come along rather late (80's or 90's) in it's development; I seem to remember newspaper reports from the 80's in Penix which referred jokingly to a 2 (or maybe 3 story) "looming" over the central plaza.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B> <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">cp in bc</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">(looking out the window at cactus here at the very Northern tip of the Great Sonora Desert) <B>Yeah, and Chris looks out his windows at Central Park, the last bit remaining of the eastern tip of the Sonoran desert.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Ralph</B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:51:03 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Report from the Field
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First Frost, Oct. 4th, 2002
Up with the sun and a peek out the window. The first cold snap this autumn
has frosted the garden down along the old board fence with a fringe of
white. The frost predicts my day: places to go, people to meet, and miles
to go before I sleep.
Places to Go
There's little traffic and I'm cruising along the back roads across the
coastal plains, making good time through the low wooded hills of western
Maine, an occasional flash of orange and yellow leaves. Tracking west into
New Hampshire on the Kancamagus Hyway, that ribbon of asphalt tracing along
the ancient Abinaki Trail Way edging the bank of the Swift River up into the
White Mountains. The Leaf Peepers are out, driving slow, enjoying the fall
colors, 45 mph, 35, 25.20. Too slow. I'll be late for my 10:30 appointment.
My mind finally gears down to match the pace of the traffic. Lots more color
in this neck of the woods, groves of gold among the green pines, a blaze of
red glows like hot coals against dark bark. I join the real world, tracking
through the forest, connected with the earth, connected with my fellow
travelers. They sense I have joined them and pull over to let me speed on
by. Upward past Passaconaway Camp, the rush of sharp curves, vistas in the
periphery, rusty guard rails snake by in sharp focus. Up and over the ridge
at Kancamagus Pass and the road uncoils down into the Pemigwasset Valley
with switch backs and sweeping curves through the forest of golden red and
green. With a stolen glance I soak up the quilt of colors spread out before
me. A stop at the scenic outlook is tempting, but I press on--places to go
and people to meet.
I catch the on-ramp, ripping north on Interstate 91, joining the roar of
cars and trucks. Even this massive onward rush of concrete and steel traces
old pathways once traveled by Lafayette along the banks of the Pemigwasset
River. A slight dip into the Basin of ponds and deep woods, then the
vertical granite of Franconia Notch. Sheer gray granite lost from sight in
gray clouds far above. Down here I concentrate on gray pavement. The
interstate drops me out of the notch and I land in the village of Franconia.
Quiet streets lined with maple trees and fine old houses. I stop to ask an
elderly gent for directions. "Left at the yellow school house with white
columns, mile and a half, turn and over the bridge." I leave the pavement
behind for a crunchy gravel road winding slowly half way up the other side
of the valley, under the quilt of colors I had seen from the ridge above,
tires now muffled by a thick mat of leaves on the road less traveled.
One more turn, around the curve, and I spot the old red mail box on the
right with red letters hand painted, "R. Frost."
People to meet.
Frost was here in the 'teens and 'twenties. Now a few local folks operate
the little white farm house as a centre for the practice of poetry. I'm up
the foot path to the house and it's good to see familiar faces once again.
Keisha, Donald, Jon and the others have been doing a good job of taking care
of the place since I was here a year ago. The mason has rebuilt a stretch of
the field stone foundation, looks a lot better than the tumble-bumpin' pile
I recall. The roofer has come and gone, leaving behind a 3-tab asphalt job
that could have been better, but in that probably matches Frost's own
approach to the job in 1917-adequate to the need. As we survey the work with
a casual walk about the place the frustrations and questions of the day
arise: Do we have to get everything perfect in our zeal to restore and
preserve? Can good enough still be good enough?
John Leeke
by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:12:06 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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In a message dated 11/23/2002 6:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> A delightful memory of the same place and same situation involved slipping
> off during one "Rest Period" after lunch on a secret hike with some chums
> and finding a lone apple tree way up the hill above the tent campsites and
> learning from an elder camper the fine art of apple-on-a stick long
> distance apple launching,
Cuyler,
I certainly never engaged in any such tomfoolery or dangerous activity when I
was a Boy Scout. And I've got the brownnosing merit badge to prove it.
No wonder you fled to Canada.
Sign me,
Goody Two Boots
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/23/2002 6:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A delightful memory of the same place and same situation involved slipping off during one "Rest Period" after lunch on a secret hike with some chums and finding a lone apple tree way up the hill above the tent campsites and learning from an elder camper the fine art of apple-on-a stick long distance apple launching, </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Cuyler,<BR>
<BR>
I certainly never engaged in any such tomfoolery or dangerous activity when I was a Boy Scout. And I've got the brownnosing merit badge to prove it.<BR>
<BR>
No wonder you fled to Canada.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
Goody Two Boots</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:15:29 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Compromise
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A New York preservation group, moderately preening over a victory against a=20
tower proposal within an historic district, quoted Ada Louise Huxtable to=20
its members:
=E2=80=9CThere is a critical responsibility to keep an eye unwaveringly on t=
he values=20
and quality that cannot survive compromise and to turn the spotlight on thos=
e=20
involved in compromising them...."
I had an immediate reaction: any new construction within New York's histori=
c=20
districts, under siege from a variety of preservation groups, will inevitabl=
y=20
be a compromise, and probably a far worse one that what would have originall=
y=20
been wrought.
Agree, or disagree? Christopher (PS Peter finally caught a tuna.)=20
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">A New York preservation group, moderately preening ove=
r a victory against a tower proposal within an historic district, quot=
ed </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20=
SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"> Ada Louise Hu=
xtable to its members:</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">=
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3=
FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">=E2=80=9CThere is a cr=
itical responsibility to keep an eye unwaveringly on the values and quality=20=
that cannot survive compromise and to turn the spotlight on those involved i=
n compromising them...."<BR>
<BR>
I had an immediate reaction: any new construction within New York's hi=
storic districts, under siege from a variety of preservation groups, will in=
evitably be a compromise, and probably a far worse one that what would have=20=
originally been wrought.<BR>
<BR>
Agree, or disagree? Christopher &nb=
sp; (PS Peter finally caught a tuna.) </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:38:22 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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In a message dated 11/23/2002 2:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:
> =E2=80=9CThere is a critical responsibility to keep an eye unwaveringly on=
the=20
> values and quality that cannot survive compromise and to turn the spotligh=
t=20
> on those involved in compromising them...."
>=20
> I had an immediate reaction: any new construction within New York's=20
> historic districts, under siege from a variety of preservation groups, wil=
l=20
> inevitably be a compromise, and probably a far worse one that what would=20
> have originally been wrought.
>=20
Sorry, but I vote with Ada.
The architects are perfectly capable of working out aesthetic compromises on=
=20
their new buildings, and the developers are not going to go broke paying to=20
make the new buildings work in our cities. The preservation of our historic=
=20
patrimony (in Fitch's ringing phrase) is our responsibility on our watch.=20
Mr. Flexible
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 11/23/2002 2:15:57 PM Eastern Stand=
ard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3=
FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCIT=
E style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0=
px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">=E2=80=9CThere is a critical responsibility to keep a=
n eye unwaveringly on the values and quality that cannot survive compromise=20=
and to turn the spotlight on those involved in compromising them...."<BR>
<BR>
I had an immediate reaction: any new construction within New York's hi=
storic districts, under siege from a variety of preservation groups, will in=
evitably be a compromise, and probably a far worse one that what would have=20=
originally been wrought.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
Sorry, but I vote with Ada.<BR>
<BR>
The architects are perfectly capable of working out aesthetic compromises on=
their new buildings, and the developers are not going to go broke paying to=
make the new buildings work in our cities. The preservation of our hi=
storic patrimony (in Fitch's ringing phrase) is our responsibility on our wa=
tch. <BR>
<BR>
Mr. Flexible</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:20:23 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Opportunity Knox
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Hot damn!
I finally have been invited, by one Robert Savimbi, nephew of the big cheese in Angola, to participate in one of these events. I forget whether the uncle was the gov't or the rebel, but now he (the uncle) is dead and the locals are running around like cattle without a shepherd.
This last is the nephew's phrase; I thought cattle were herded by cowboys, and shepherds tended sheep, but what do I know? (This is a rhetorical question and your negative response is not invited, but it's kind of you to offer.)
Should I invest all the pinhead dues in this? I think the deal is I get 15% of what's in a cigar box someplace, and 5% of the haul gets donated to MY favorite charity, which of course is the Pinhead Pension Fund.
Lemme know. Young Robert got my address through a directory, so he must know me very well and respect me highly, just like you guys.
Ralph
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:36:36 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: Report from the Field
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Good writing and reading, John. Not so sure "adequate" is appropriate, sounds
dangerously close to preserving some owner, architect or builder's intent,
rather than the building that actually got built. But I did enjoy the ride
accross New Hampshire.
-jc
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:20:31 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Met History wrote:
> "There is a critical responsibility to keep an eye unwaveringly on the
> values and quality that cannot survive compromise and to turn the
> spotlight on those involved in compromising them...."
>
> I had an immediate reaction: any new construction within New York's
> historic districts, under siege from a variety of preservation groups,
> will inevitably be a compromise, and probably a far worse one that what
> would have originally been wrought.
>
> Agree, or disagree? Christopher (PS Peter finally caught a tuna.)
Agree in part: new construction in a historic district always involves
compromises. Disagree in part: I think the developer's original
intention would usually be worse than the compromise that eventually
resulted. I don't subscribe to the Howard Roark concept of architecture.
Buildings, especially in an urban context, have to meet the needs of
multiple constituencies.
In any case, there are two different shades of the word "compromise" being
used here. ALH means "compromised" in the sense of "tainted or ruined",
as in "a woman whose reputation is compromised" or "a compromised security
system." You mean "compromise" in the sense of "a deal between factions
where each gets part of what they want."
Larry
---
Lawrence Kestenbaum, [log in to unmask]
Washtenaw County Commissioner, 4th District
The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
Polygon, the Dancing Bear, http://potifos.com/polygon
Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:43:41 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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In a message dated 11/24/2002 10:21:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Agree in part: new construction in a historic district always involves
> compromises. Disagree in part: I think the developer's original
> intention would usually be worse than the compromise that eventually
> resulted. I don't subscribe to the Howard Roark concept of architecture.
> Buildings, especially in an urban context, have to meet the needs of
> multiple constituencies.
>
> In any case, there are two different shades of the word "compromise" being
> used here. ALH means "compromised" in the sense of "tainted or ruined",
> as in "a woman whose reputation is compromised" or "a compromised security
> system." You mean "compromise" in the sense of "a deal between factions
> where each gets part of what they want."
>
Right on, brotha.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/24/2002 10:21:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Agree in part: new construction in a historic district always involves<BR>
compromises. Disagree in part: I think the developer's original<BR>
intention would usually be worse than the compromise that eventually<BR>
resulted. I don't subscribe to the Howard Roark concept of architecture.<BR>
Buildings, especially in an urban context, have to meet the needs of<BR>
multiple constituencies.<BR>
<BR>
In any case, there are two different shades of the word "compromise" being<BR>
used here. ALH means "compromised" in the sense of "tainted or ruined",<BR>
as in "a woman whose reputation is compromised" or "a compromised security<BR>
system." You mean "compromise" in the sense of "a deal between factions<BR>
where each gets part of what they want."<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Right on, brotha.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:19:10 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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In a message dated 11/24/02 10:21:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Buildings, especially in an urban context, have to meet the needs of
> multiple constituencies.
Did our earlier buildings - the Chrysler Building, rowhouses, 1920's
apartment buildings - meet "multiple constituencies" more than the corollary
buildings of the present day? How?
Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/24/02 10:21:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Buildings, especially in an urban context, have to meet the needs of multiple constituencies.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Did our earlier buildings - the Chrysler Building, rowhouses, 1920's apartment buildings - meet "multiple constituencies" more than the corollary buildings of the present day? How?<BR>
<BR>
Christopher </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:56:57 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
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In a message dated 11/24/02 10:21:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Agree in part: new construction in a historic district always involves
> compromises. Disagree in part: I think the developer's original intention
> would usually be worse than the compromise that eventually resulted.
I am thinking not about what "would" happen, but what has happened, at least
in New York City. I'm thinking of new construction in historic districts in
New York in the last decade or so. The addition to the Jewish Museum; the
new "neo-Renaissance" cast-limestone 10 story apartment building in back of
838 Fifth Avenue [the "love thy neighbor" building]; the new "neo-Georgian"
apartment house at 52 East 72nd Street [for which a neat little Morris
Lapidus building was demolished]. They are all ... tepid, at best. At
very best. And this at a time of rather adventurous architecture outside of
historic districts, even by speculative builders, like the last 10 years of
towers around Lincoln Center by Costas Kondylis and others - just regular
guys, not archi-stars.
I don't think you need to "subscribe to the Howard Roark theory of
architecture" to hold the opinion that, the thicker the bureaucracy, the more
finely minced is the artistic impulse.
Read also the battle-statements made by the non-profit preservation groups
involved in such discussions - they show little evidence of connoisseurship
or real architectural concerns - they are simply about bulk, shadows, views
of existing tenancies, construction noise. In such an environment, could even
Howard have a chance?
Best, Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/24/02 10:21:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Agree in part: new construction in a historic district always involves compromises. Disagree in part: I think the developer's original intention would usually be worse than the compromise that eventually resulted. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
I am thinking not about what "would" happen, but what has happened, at least in New York City. I'm thinking of new construction in historic districts in New York in the last decade or so. The addition to the Jewish Museum; the new "neo-Renaissance" cast-limestone 10 story apartment building in back of 838 Fifth Avenue [the "love thy neighbor" building]; the new "neo-Georgian" apartment house at 52 East 72nd Street [for which a neat little Morris Lapidus building was demolished]. They are all ... tepid, at best. At very best. And this at a time of rather adventurous architecture outside of historic districts, even by speculative builders, like the last 10 years of towers around Lincoln Center by Costas Kondylis and others - just regular guys, not archi-stars. <BR>
<BR>
I don't think you need to "subscribe to the Howard Roark theory of architecture" to hold the opinion that, the thicker the bureaucracy, the more finely minced is the artistic impulse.<BR>
<BR>
Read also the battle-statements made by the non-profit preservation groups involved in such discussions - they show little evidence of connoisseurship or real architectural concerns - they are simply about bulk, shadows, views of existing tenancies, construction noise. In such an environment, could even Howard have a chance? <BR>
<BR>
Best, Christopher </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:19:21 GMT
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Nate Gillette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WWHD?
Christopher wrote:
<just regular guys, not archi-stars.
Hey you misspelled that, that should be star-chitects. 8>)
Nate Gillette
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:30:38 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Met History
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 11:57 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
>=20
>=20
> I don't think you need to "subscribe to the Howard Roark=20
> theory of architecture" to hold the opinion that, the thicker=20
> the bureaucracy, the more finely minced is the artistic impulse.
This is a matter of community "preservation personality" and the
leadership that exists in the community. One can subscribe to many
different philosophies as to what approach to take toward new
construction in historic districts. As a public servant, I am acutely
aware that I am here to serve the citizens' desires for what they would
like to receive from the preservation program provided on their behalf.
The way I administer a program in Raleigh would be different from how I
would administer a program in another community. I would have to take my
cues from that community.=20
Here in Raleigh, we do not have a "museums" approach toward the
preservation of our properties and districts. If we were to impose
strict preservation/restoration standards across the board, we would
face insurrection and rebellion. Here, we view our work as a shaping of
the evolution of the districts, but recognize that each generation will
leave its imprint on the resources. They were handed down to us through
the lassez faire actions of preceding generations and the accretion of
their decisions; this begs the question as to why we should suddenly
need to freeze-frame them in a sterile cocoon of changeless suspension.
Very few resources here would warrant that kind of strict
interpretation.
Likewise, with new construction, we prefer that it should reflect its
own time period, but do so in a respectful manner toward the context.
Again, the design review process here, as governed by state statute that
states "the commission shall take no action except to prevent that which
is incongruous with the special character of the historic resource or
the historic district." This is not the make-it-the-best-it-can-be
process, it is the prevent-bad-things-from-happening process. We have
some tepid, unimaginative, derivative new construction, that mimics the
historic styles; we can't deny that, even if we would prefer something
else, as it is pretty difficult to say that something that looks exactly
like what is around it is incongruous. But we also have some pretty
exciting contemporary new construction in our historic districts. It
depends a great deal upon what the designer brings us, and it depends a
great deal on how adventurous the client is.
Denise Scott-Brown, no fan of design regulations, has stated: "If you
want good design, hire good designers." Dan Becker's corollary to that
is: "Design guidelines are containment facilities for bad designers." A
design review body can only work with what is placed before it. It is
the personality of the community that influences the kinds of proposals
that are presented, and it equally influences how the design review body
evaluates the proposals.
I believe that communities that have a lot of conflict in their historic
preservation programs have a preservation commission that is out of step
with their constituency's "preservation personality." They have set a
preservation standard that is substantially higher than the lay public's
view of what is reasonable. This is regulation by zealots, not
regulation on behalf of the citizenry. If you don't believe that people
"get it," it is a painful route to take to force them to submit through
regulation, as opposed to instituting a good educational program in
partnership with your historic resource stewards to raise their
understanding of why it might be better to do it "our" way. Then, they
will start to bring you better proposals.
We waste a lot of good-will capital going to the mat over what are
ultimately really inconsequential small details, which the reality is
will only make a difference in the lives of a few academic researchers
in 50-100 years. They are meaningless to the people that have to use the
buildings in their daily lives. I'd like to preserve the good experience
of buildings with human scale that have associative meaning to folks;
every building in a historic district is not worthy of a microfine
museum level of conservation of every scrap of stuff for "what it may
tell us in the future." Most of us are going to be too busy in the
future to ask.=20
Choose carefully the buildings and areas to preserve as monuments; let
the rest live.
______________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Let us, while waiting for=20
Raleigh Historic new monuments preserve=20
Districts Commission the ancient monuments."
[log in to unmask] -- Victor Hugo =20
919/890-3678
=20
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:34:56 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Met History wrote:
> > Buildings, especially in an urban context, have to meet the needs of
> > multiple constituencies.
>
> Did our earlier buildings - the Chrysler Building, rowhouses, 1920's
> apartment buildings - meet "multiple constituencies" more than the corollary
> buildings of the present day? How?
Christopher Alexander has an answer for this which I don't have handy to
quote, but the gist of it is that, in the old days, architecture happened
within a context of shared values and expectations which no longer
obtains. Lacking that, the best we can do for our historic districts is
the bureaucratic solution.
The Chrysler Building and many of the other achievements of the 20th
century happened at a time of the breaking down of those shared values, a
crisis time that was both exciting and abusive. I'm not suggesting that
historic districts need to be locked in time, but they do need to be
protected from the "revolution". Grafitti may be artistic and modern and
has its place, but I'd rather not have it scrawled across the facades of
my favorite buildings.
Larry
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The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:04:04 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Met History wrote:
> I am thinking not about what "would" happen, but what has happened, at least
> in New York City. I'm thinking of new construction in historic districts in
> New York in the last decade or so. The addition to the Jewish Museum; the
> new "neo-Renaissance" cast-limestone 10 story apartment building in back of
> 838 Fifth Avenue [the "love thy neighbor" building]; the new "neo-Georgian"
> apartment house at 52 East 72nd Street [for which a neat little Morris
> Lapidus building was demolished]. They are all ... tepid, at best. At
> very best. And this at a time of rather adventurous architecture outside of
> historic districts, even by speculative builders, like the last 10 years of
> towers around Lincoln Center by Costas Kondylis and others - just regular
> guys, not archi-stars.
The only one of those I have seen is the addition to the Jewish Museum,
which we have argued about before. Since your view of that one project is
so utterly at variance with mine, I doubt we'd agree on the others you
mention.
> I don't think you need to "subscribe to the Howard Roark theory of
> architecture" to hold the opinion that, the thicker the bureaucracy, the more
> finely minced is the artistic impulse.
Perhaps it can't be taken to extremes, but in my experience, constraints
force architects to produce better work. Every time I have rejected an
architect's proposal for a new building, the architect has come back with
something better, usually, a whole lot better. The architecture
profession has a lot of rhetoric about how every site is unique, but in
practice you don't get a building uniquely well-adapted to the site unless
you enforce unique constraints.
> Read also the battle-statements made by the non-profit preservation groups
> involved in such discussions - they show little evidence of connoisseurship
> or real architectural concerns - they are simply about bulk, shadows, views
> of existing tenancies, construction noise.
I am surprised you would expect anything else.
> In such an environment, could even Howard have a chance?
If Howard can't deal with bulk, shadows, views, and noise, he's not worthy
of being an architect.
Larry
---
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The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:37:32 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
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From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: WWHD?
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Nate Gillette wrote:
> star-chitects.
Outstanding-
Andrew Vach's latest features a minor character-
a kid with a WWMD tatoo- What Would Manson Do
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note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:23:08 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 11:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Perhaps it can't be taken to extremes, but in my experience, constraints
> force architects to produce better work. I am inclined to agree with the
> distinguished gentleman from Michigan or Wisconsin or wherever it is. Every
> time I have rejected an architect's proposal for a new building, the
> architect has come back with something better, usually, a whole lot better.
> The architecture
> profession has a lot of rhetoric about how every site is unique, but in
> practice you don't get a building uniquely well-adapted to the site unless
> you enforce unique constraints. Yep.
>
> > Read also the battle-statements made by the non-profit preservation
> groups
> > involved in such discussions - they show little evidence of connoisseu
> rship
> > or real architectural concerns - they are simply about bulk, shadows,
> views
> > of existing tenancies, construction noise.
>
> I am surprised you would expect anything else.
This stuff is about all that can be quantified objectively, as opposed to "it
looks like shit," which may also be true.
>
> > In such an environment, could even Howard have a chance?
>
> If Howard can't deal with bulk, shadows, views, and noise, he's not worthy
> of being an architect. Or becoming a fictional character, except as a bad
> example.
Mr. Flexible
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/25/2002 11:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
Perhaps it can't be taken to extremes, but in my experience, constraints<BR>
force architects to produce better work. <B>I am inclined to agree with the distinguished gentleman from Michigan or Wisconsin or wherever it is.</B> Every time I have rejected an architect's proposal for a new building, the architect has come back with something better, usually, a whole lot better. The architecture<BR>
profession has a lot of rhetoric about how every site is unique, but in<BR>
practice you don't get a building uniquely well-adapted to the site unless<BR>
you enforce unique constraints. <B>Yep.</B><BR>
<BR>
> Read also the battle-statements made by the non-profit preservation groups<BR>
> involved in such discussions - they show little evidence of connoisseurship<BR>
> or real architectural concerns - they are simply about bulk, shadows, views<BR>
> of existing tenancies, construction noise.<BR>
<BR>
I am surprised you would expect anything else.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>This stuff is about all that can be quantified objectively, as opposed to "it looks like shit," which may also be true.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
> In such an environment, could even Howard have a chance?<BR>
<BR>
If Howard can't deal with bulk, shadows, views, and noise, he's not worthy<BR>
of being an architect. <B>Or becoming a fictional character, except as a bad example.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Mr. Flexible</B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:27:16 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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I always wondered about the sound effects in that jake-place.
And there was Betsy Parker, an ominous rumbling overhead like the cumulus of
a cattle run that would often interrupt our sedentary Bible studies.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I always wondered about the sound effects in that jake-place.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
And there was Betsy Parker, an ominous rumbling overhead like the cumulus of a cattle run that would often interrupt our sedentary Bible studies.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:29:30 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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fine art of apple-on-a stick long distance apple launching
Oh my... I was getting pretty good at this until one day from about 50 yards
I hit my brother square in the right eye with a small green apple. One of
those things we don't forget.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">fine art of apple-on-a stick long distance apple launching</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Oh my... I was getting pretty good at this until one day from about 50 yards I hit my brother square in the right eye with a small green apple. One of those things we don't forget.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:31:04 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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So where did you post this photo for us to see now that we have all been
tempted.
Bill,
1) In Arizona where he left it on the wall.
2) The image now lingering in our mind's eye.
3) Can you build us another so we can take pictures?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">So where did you post this photo for us to see now that we have all been tempted.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Bill,<BR>
<BR>
1) In Arizona where he left it on the wall.<BR>
2) The image now lingering in our mind's eye.<BR>
3) Can you build us another so we can take pictures?<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:36:27 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from the Field
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Up with the sun and a peek out the window.
Nice story.... more please.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Up with the sun and a peek out the window. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Nice story.... more please.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:10:42 EST
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WWHD?
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Hey you misspelled that, that should be star-chitects. 8>)
Depends on which side of the butter you plate is on.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hey you misspelled that, that should be star-chitects. 8>)<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Depends on which side of the butter you plate is on.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:22:09 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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any new construction within New York's historic districts, under siege from a
variety of preservation groups, will inevitably be a compromise, and probably
a far worse one that what would have originally been wrought.
Sharpshooter,
You got a point. What is the story something like if God had built the
elephant by committee consensus then it would look more like an aardvark?
I don't think anything worthwhile comes from trying to satisfy everyone. I
heard Al Gore on NPR interviewed last week talking about how now he is not
running he can say what he thinks, and he said it. I was wondering why he
never spoke what he thought for real before now, that is, without opinion
polls to guide his words.
Then again, I think if there is not a pressure and acknowledgement on the
part of the design professional to be sensitive to existing fabric we can
quickly end up with all sorts of abominations. Bad design is bad design
regardless of what anyone says or thinks about it. Mr. Stern from what I have
heard him say seems inclined to preserve historic fabric by removing it or
swallowing it up in new design.
As to Ada Louise Huxtable's quote I think it runs a bit to daft. We should
worry about little nit picky things because if we don't then who will?
Quality and compromise are subjective. It does not help that histo presto be
perceived as a pedantic pursuit of the unsurvivable and trivial detail of a
lost ancestry that nobody really wants to be bothered with.
Persistence of compromise leads to cheese that tastes like bland putty and
beer that never rises above water. Which leads me to wonder, kicking a bit of
dirt with my shoes here, is compromise of the built-environment possible
without free-market capitalism?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">any new construction within New York's historic districts, under siege from a variety of preservation groups, will inevitably be a compromise, and probably a far worse one that what would have originally been wrought.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Sharpshooter,<BR>
<BR>
You got a point. What is the story something like if God had built the elephant by committee consensus then it would look more like an aardvark? <BR>
<BR>
I don't think anything worthwhile comes from trying to satisfy everyone. I heard Al Gore on NPR interviewed last week talking about how now he is not running he can say what he thinks, and he said it. I was wondering why he never spoke what he thought for real before now, that is, without opinion polls to guide his words. <BR>
<BR>
Then again, I think if there is not a pressure and acknowledgement on the part of the design professional to be sensitive to existing fabric we can quickly end up with all sorts of abominations. Bad design is bad design regardless of what anyone says or thinks about it. Mr. Stern from what I have heard him say seems inclined to preserve historic fabric by removing it or swallowing it up in new design. <BR>
<BR>
As to Ada Louise Huxtable's quote I think it runs a bit to daft. We should worry about little nit picky things because if we don't then who will? Quality and compromise are subjective. It does not help that histo presto be perceived as a pedantic pursuit of the unsurvivable and trivial detail of a lost ancestry that nobody really wants to be bothered with.<BR>
<BR>
Persistence of compromise leads to cheese that tastes like bland putty and beer that never rises above water. Which leads me to wonder, kicking a bit of dirt with my shoes here, is compromise of the built-environment possible without free-market capitalism?<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:22:13 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
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Choose carefully the buildings and areas to preserve as monuments; let
the rest live.
Dan,
I'm with you on all this, a real fine statement.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Choose carefully the buildings and areas to preserve as monuments; let<BR>
the rest live.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Dan,<BR>
<BR>
I'm with you on all this, a real fine statement.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:22:13 EST
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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Grafitti may be artistic and modern and has its place, but I'd rather not
have it scrawled across the facades of my favorite buildings.
So I find out this weekend that one way in which to change the course of an
asteroid hurtling towards earth is to go out and spray paint one side of it
with aluminum paint so that the radiation of the sun will push it off
course... so don't go knocking the grafitti urchins... we may be needing them
real real soon. Talk about preservation... save the friggin' planet, man!
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Grafitti may be artistic and modern and has its place, but I'd rather not have it scrawled across the facades of my favorite buildings.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
So I find out this weekend that one way in which to change the course of an asteroid hurtling towards earth is to go out and spray paint one side of it with aluminum paint so that the radiation of the sun will push it off course... so don't go knocking the grafitti urchins... we may be needing them real real soon. Talk about preservation... save the friggin' planet, man!<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:56:43 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Follett
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:22 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Compromise
>=20
>=20
> I don't think anything worthwhile comes from trying to=20
> satisfy everyone.=20
My primary tenet of successful planning is that no plan can ever satisfy
everyone; the most successful plan is one that has upset everyone
equally, so that no one feels that someone got the advantage over them.=20
Successful compromise shares the pain equally.
_____________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Conformists die, but
Raleigh Historic heretics live on forever"
Districts Commission -- Elbert Hubbard
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:10:00 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cross-posting from GoNogUrSelf.Org....
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Subj: Mud Brick Nogging =20
Date: 11/25/02 3:33:45 PM Eastern Standard Time =20
From:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask] (Daniel H. Weiskotten)
Reply-to: <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
.GOV</A> (A LISTSERV list for discussions=20
pertaining to New York State=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 history.)
Hello All:
No, Mud Brick Nogging is not about some wickedly fun redneck sport.
I've scanned and posted photos of an example of unfired mud brick nogging
(infill between timbers and studs) that I saw in an abandoned house in
Washington County, NY.=A0 I've written up a little report and included two
links to other information on the use of mud brick as nogging: one on the
Amana Colonies in Iowa, another an article from CRM, No. 6, 1999.
I've seen several examples of actual fired brick used as nogging in 19th
century buildings in upstate NY, but this is the only case of actual
unfired mud brock that I've seen.=A0 I am told that some has been found in a=
n
archaeological excavation of an old house site in Auburn and the CRM
article mentions its use in western NY.=A0 I'd like to know more about its
use, temporal and spatial distribution, etc.
The photos are worth the wait in loading, so be patient.=A0 Why didn't
someone tell me what a pain it is to scan slides?
http://users.erols.com/weiskotten/MudBrickNogging.html
Dan W.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subj: <B>Mud Brick Nogg=
ing</B> =20
<BR>Date: 11/25/02 3:33:45 PM Eastern Standard Time =20
<BR>From:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask] (Daniel H. Weiskotten)
<BR>Reply-to: <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
YSED.GOV</A> (A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 history.)
<BR>
<BR>Hello All:
<BR>
<BR>No, Mud Brick Nogging is not about some wickedly fun redneck sport.
<BR>
<BR>I've scanned and posted photos of an example of unfired mud brick noggin=
g
<BR>(infill between timbers and studs) that I saw in an abandoned house in
<BR>Washington County, NY.=A0 I've written up a little report and included t=
wo
<BR>links to other information on the use of mud brick as nogging: one on th=
e
<BR>Amana Colonies in Iowa, another an article from CRM, No. 6, 1999.
<BR>
<BR>I've seen several examples of actual fired brick used as nogging in 19th
<BR>century buildings in upstate NY, but this is the only case of actual
<BR>unfired mud brock that I've seen.=A0 I am told that some has been found=20=
in an
<BR>archaeological excavation of an old house site in Auburn and the CRM
<BR>article mentions its use in western NY.=A0 I'd like to know more about i=
ts
<BR>use, temporal and spatial distribution, etc.
<BR>
<BR>The photos are worth the wait in loading, so be patient.=A0 Why didn't
<BR>someone tell me what a pain it is to scan slides?
<BR>
<BR>http://users.erols.com/weiskotten/MudBrickNogging.html
<BR>
<BR>Dan W.
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:16:07 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hey, wait a minute, how can a "one-liner" be double-spaced?
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In a message Ayn Rand Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> My primary tenet of successful planning is that no plan can ever satisfy
> everyone; the most successful plan is one that has upset everyone
> equally, so that no one feels that someone got the advantage over them.
>
I don't recall "everyone equally" getting upset about Grand Central Terminal,
or the Pitti Palace, or St. Peter's Square or the Boston Public Library.
Only about Ralph recklessly double- and triple-spacing his one-liners.
Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message Ayn Rand Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My primary tenet of successful planning is that no plan can ever satisfy
<BR>everyone; the most successful plan is one that has upset everyone
<BR>equally, so that no one feels that someone got the advantage over them.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>I don't recall "everyone equally" getting upset about Grand Central Terminal, or the Pitti Palace, or St. Peter's Square or the Boston Public Library. Only about Ralph recklessly double- and triple-spacing his one-liners. Christopher
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:17:50 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hey, Far-From-Yukon Guy, you think they're a pair of hoot owls?
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Subj: cemetery gate =20
Date: 11/25/02 3:45:31 PM Eastern Standard Time =20
From:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask] (Harold Miller)
Reply-to: <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
com.mx</A>
To:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask]
The Berne Historical Project at www.Bernehistory.org has a project underway
to restore the late 18th Century Pine Grove Cemetery, Berne, Albany County.
It was a small, rural, church cemetery that continued in use for almost a
century. A couple of youngsters who were probing for fallen and covered over
tombstones found what appear to be the base stones for a pedestrian gate. At
first they were assumed to be tombstone bases, but no tombstones were found.
Also these stones are roughly parallel the east west road-frontage, about
the distance back from the road that a fence would be; where as the
tombstones all face east, so the bases are north south.
The stones are oblong, large, and heavy, laying inches apart placed end to
end. They each have 2 circular holes about 18" apart and about 1 and 1/2 "
wide. One of the holes has the broken off stub off a rusted iron rod
embedded in it. They are crudely cut, rather then finished stone.
Here is there symbolic appearance:
=A0 =A0 [=A0 o=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 o=A0 ]=A0 =A0 [=A0 o=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 o=A0 ]
It is assumed that they were found in their original location. If so, the
gate would have been quite narrow. It has been proposed that the gate was
designed with 4 posts tied together at the top but not necessarily with an
arch. Two of the posts probably supported a latched gate to keep livestock
out of the cemetery the other two braced the gateway from tipping and
leaning.
I'm interested in what others might make of these stones. If it was a gate,
does anyone have photos of cemetery gates of this size that might give us an
idea of what it looked like?
I can e-mail digital photos of the stones and the context in which they were
found if anyone is interested.
Harold Miller
Berne Historical Project www.Bernehistory.org
Please reply to [log in to unmask] rather than this address.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subj: <B>cemetery gate<=
/B> =20
<BR>Date: 11/25/02 3:45:31 PM Eastern Standard Time =20
<BR>From:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask] (Harold Miller)
<BR>Reply-to: <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">halned@spersaoax=
aca.com.mx</A>
<BR>To:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask]
<BR>
<BR>The Berne Historical Project at www.Bernehistory.org has a project under=
way
<BR>to restore the late 18th Century Pine Grove Cemetery, Berne, Albany Coun=
ty.
<BR>It was a small, rural, church cemetery that continued in use for almost=20=
a
<BR>century. A couple of youngsters who were probing for fallen and covered=20=
over
<BR>tombstones found what appear to be the base stones for a pedestrian gate=
. At
<BR>first they were assumed to be tombstone bases, but no tombstones were fo=
und.
<BR>Also these stones are roughly parallel the east west road-frontage, abou=
t
<BR>the distance back from the road that a fence would be; where as the
<BR>tombstones all face east, so the bases are north south.
<BR>
<BR>The stones are oblong, large, and heavy, laying inches apart placed end=20=
to
<BR>end. They each have 2 circular holes about 18" apart and about 1 and 1/2=
"
<BR>wide. One of the holes has the broken off stub off a rusted iron rod
<BR>embedded in it. They are crudely cut, rather then finished stone.
<BR>
<BR>Here is there symbolic appearance:
<BR>
<BR>=A0 =A0 [=A0 o=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 o=A0 ]=A0 =A0 [=A0 o=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 o=A0 ]
<BR>
<BR>It is assumed that they were found in their original location. If so, th=
e
<BR>gate would have been quite narrow. It has been proposed that the gate wa=
s
<BR>designed with 4 posts tied together at the top but not necessarily with=20=
an
<BR>arch. Two of the posts probably supported a latched gate to keep livesto=
ck
<BR>out of the cemetery the other two braced the gateway from tipping and
<BR>leaning.
<BR>
<BR>I'm interested in what others might make of these stones. If it was a ga=
te,
<BR>does anyone have photos of cemetery gates of this size that might give u=
s an
<BR>idea of what it looked like?
<BR>
<BR>I can e-mail digital photos of the stones and the context in which they=20=
were
<BR>found if anyone is interested.
<BR>
<BR>Harold Miller
<BR>Berne Historical Project www.Bernehistory.org
<BR>
<BR>Please reply to [log in to unmask] rather than this address.</FO=
NT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:35:44 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hey, wait a minute, how can a "one-liner" be double-spaced?
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=20
-----Original Message-----
From: make easy -- get sakcrete
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Met
History
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 4:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Hey, wait a minute, how can a "one-liner" be double-spaced?
In a message Ayn Rand Time, [log in to unmask] writes:=20
My primary tenet of successful planning is that no plan can ever satisfy
everyone; the most successful plan is one that has upset everyone=20
equally, so that no one feels that someone got the advantage over them.=20
I don't recall "everyone equally" getting upset about Grand Central
Terminal, or the Pitti Palace, or St. Peter's Square or the Boston
Public Library. Only about Ralph recklessly double- and triple-spacing
his one-liners. Christopher=20
=20
You are quite right...those were lousy plans that were not successful
=20
And neither is html in email.
_____________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Conformists die, but
Raleigh Historic heretics live on forever"
Districts Commission -- Elbert Hubbard
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678=20
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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> make =
easy -- get=20
sakcrete [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On =
Behalf Of=20
</B>Met History<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 25, 2002 4:16=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Hey, wait a minute, how can a "one-liner" be=20
double-spaced?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF">In a message Ayn =
Rand Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes: <BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">My primary tenet of successful planning is that no plan =
can ever=20
satisfy <BR>everyone; the most successful plan is one that has upset =
everyone <BR>equally, so that no one feels that someone got the =
advantage=20
over them. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">
<DIV><BR>I don't recall "everyone equally" getting upset about Grand =
Central=20
Terminal, or the Pitti Palace, or St. Peter's Square or the Boston =
Public=20
Library. Only about Ralph recklessly double- and triple-spacing =
his=20
one-liners.=20
Christopher <BR><SPAN=20
class=3D539113321-25112002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D539113321-25112002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>You are quite right...those were lousy plans that were not=20
successful</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D539113321-25112002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D539113321-25112002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>And neither is html in email.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D539113321-25112002><FONT=20
size=3D2>_____________________________________________________<BR>Dan=20
Becker, Exec. Dir. "Conformists die, =
but<BR>Raleigh=20
Historic  =
;=20
heretics live on forever"<BR>Districts=20
Commission &nb=
sp; =20
-- Elbert Hubbard<BR>[log in to unmask] <BR>919/890-3678</FONT>=20
</DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:16:38 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hey, buster, you should talk, you're the one with the funny ...
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In a message dated 11/25/02 4:36:30 PM , [log in to unmask] writes:
> You are quite right...those were lousy plans that were not successful. And
> neither is html in email.
> ____________________________________________________
> Dan Becker, Exec. Dir.
..blue writing!! Sign me, Depressed Modern
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/25/02 4:36:30 PM , [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You are quite right...those were lousy plans that were not successful.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0">And neither is html in email.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0">____________________________________________________
<BR>Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>..blue writing!! Sign me, Depressed Modern</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:02:08 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hey, buster, you should talk,
you're the one with the funny ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Met History
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Hey, buster, you should talk, you're the one with=20
> the funny ...
>=20
>=20
> ..blue writing!! Sign me, Depressed Modern=20
Thanks to the hegemony of Microsoft....
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:52:22 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: William Gould <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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on 11/25/02 2:31 PM, Ken Follett at [log in to unmask] wrote:
So where did you post this photo for us to see now that we have all been
tempted.
Bill,
1) In Arizona where he left it on the wall.
2) The image now lingering in our mind's eye.
3) Can you build us another so we can take pictures?
][<en
Sure Ken, I could build you anything you like. I'm not sure the building
official would approve however. Probably would not be fly proof.
Twenty years or so ago I used to frequent northern Maine. I would go up to
Oxbow, Marsardis, Presque Isle, Caribou, etc.. North of Patten on route 11,
in downtown Marsardis was a large store front with a hall on the second
floor that could be rented for functions. I did not attend any but my
friend from the area, who played in a band, did gigs there from time to
time. At the rear of the hall, a large room say 35 x 60 were ladies and
gents facilities. From the exterior, the facilities looked like and
enclosed porch supported by braces from the rear of the building. There was
one exception, there was flooring on only the portion of the porch closest
to the rear of the building. Obviously, it was a privy and the dirt parking
lot the depository. One had to be careful where they parked there car and
always check on the wind direction. Winters are cold in Maine so things can
freeze quickly. I was never there the day after an event so I have no
comment. I do wonder if the building exists along with the enclosed porch.
You will have to create this image in you minds eye too. Unfortunately, no
photos.
Bill
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: 3 Jakes</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
on 11/25/02 2:31 PM, Ken Follett at [log in to unmask] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">So where did you post this ph=
oto for us to see now that we have all been tempted.<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BR>
<BR>
Bill,<BR>
<BR>
1) In Arizona where he left it on the =
wall.<BR>
2) The image now lingering in our mind=
's eye.<BR>
3) Can you build us another so we can =
take pictures?<BR>
<BR>
][<en <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Sure Ken, I could build you anything you like. I'm not sure the build=
ing official would approve however. Probably would not be fly proof.<B=
R>
<BR>
Twenty years or so ago I used to frequent northern Maine. I would go =
up to Oxbow, Marsardis, Presque Isle, Caribou, etc.. North of Patten o=
n route 11, in downtown Marsardis was a large store front with a hall on the=
second floor that could be rented for functions. I did not attend any=
but my friend from the area, who played in a band, did gigs there from time=
to time. At the rear of the hall, a large room say 35 x 60 were ladie=
s and gents facilities. From the exterior, the facilities looked like =
and enclosed porch supported by braces from the rear of the building. =
There was one exception, there was flooring on only the portion of the porch=
closest to the rear of the building. Obviously, it was a privy and th=
e dirt parking lot the depository. One had to be careful where t=
hey parked there car and always check on the wind direction. Winters a=
re cold in Maine so things can freeze quickly. I was never there the d=
ay after an event so I have no comment. I do wonder if the building ex=
ists along with the enclosed porch. You will have to create this image=
in you minds eye too. Unfortunately, no photos.<BR>
<BR>
Bill<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:15:21 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: outhouses
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 2:29:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Oh my... I was getting pretty good at this until one day from about 50 yards I hit my brother square in the right eye
> with a small green apple. One of those things we don't forget.
Yeah, well, mah Momma claims she threw a drawing compass at one of her classmates and it stuck the other girl the head just above her eye. Guess my mom was pissed, or the south Georgia equivalent in the early 1930's.
Ralph
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:20:03 -0500
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 2:31:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> 3) Can you build us another so we can take pictures?
If he built another, you could take more than pictures. Which reminds me, in the Times this morning, there was a story about some guy who invented a new way to mount turkey beards, and one of thge things it mentioned was that adolescent male turkeys (which presumably have dicks like other boy birds, but the Times didn't mention THAT) are called.....you guessed it: jakes!
My question is, how many other things in the world are called Jakes?
Ralph
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:22:53 -0500
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 3:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> so don't go knocking the grafitti urchins... we may be
> needing them real real soon.
The hell with 'em. Let's send them to the asteroids, and let them paint 'em. But in the meantime, they can hit all of Chris' fabulous new buildings, instead of our nice old ones.
Ralph
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:24:30 -0500
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 3:22:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Which leads me to wonder, kicking a bit of dirt with my shoes here, is compromise of the built-environment possible
> without free-market capitalism?
Yeah sure. The Commies (or were those the Comos?) did a great job prserving the environment without capitalism.
Ralph
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:29:53 -0500
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hey, wait a minute, how can a "one-liner" be double-spaced?
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 4:16:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Only about Ralph recklessly double- and triple-spacing his
> one-liners.
Somehow, I had a feeling from the header that this was going to be another of Chrif' nasty cracks.
Boo Who?
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:52:30 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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In a message dated 11/25/2002 8:52:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> You will have to create this image in you minds eye too.
Not in MY mind's eye, I don't.
Sign me,
Eyes Wide Shut
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:44:42 -0500
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From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: EDGE
Subject: Re: WWJD
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any one who has a chance should find today's
Mike Peters [ of Mother Goose & Grim fame]
political Cartoon in re SUVs and WWJD.
DD
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note;quoted-printable:It's a heck of a world when an all American boy =0D=0Acan't carry a pocketknife.=0D=0A
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:03:12 -0500
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From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WWJD
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: J.A. Drew Diaz
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: WWJD
>=20
>=20
> any one who has a chance should find today's
> Mike Peters [ of Mother Goose & Grim fame]
> political Cartoon in re SUVs and WWJD.
Here's where you can get it on-line in about 5 days:
<http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/opinion/peters/peters1.html>
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:18:15 -0500
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From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Report from the Field
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Dan Writes:
>>They were handed down to us through
the lassez faire actions of preceding generations and the accretion of
their decisions; this begs the question as to why we should suddenly
need to freeze-frame them in a sterile cocoon of changeless suspension.
Very few resources here would warrant that kind of strict
interpretation.
<<
I think I could use this thinking at The Frost Place, where they have a very
active program of live-in poets and public visitation, which the buildings
must serve first; and also a secondary commitment to preservation of the
buildings.
John
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:28:15 -0500
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Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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Anyone have an opinion in re:
What is the appropriate age for a child to get his/her 1st pocket knife-
I'm of the opinion that 2nd grade is OK...
Drew Diaz
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:37:25 -0800
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From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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> My question is, how many other things in the world are called Jakes?
>
> Ralph
Big trucks have "Jake Brakes" on their engines.
cp in bc
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:35:20 -0500
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From: "J.A. Drew Diaz" <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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jake leg n : a paralysis caused by drinking improperly distilled or
contaminated
liquor
Cuyler Page wrote:
> > My question is, how many other things in the world are called Jakes?
> >
> > Ralph
>
> Big trucks have "Jake Brakes" on their engines.
>
> cp in bc
>
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:15:09 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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JAKE = jointly administered knowledge environment
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">JAKE = jointly administered knowledge environment</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=5 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:09:51 -0500
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From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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In a PC way, it depends on the kid (ie: your guess is as good as mine)
Coincidentally, a contractor I met with today relayed a story where he gave
a pocket knife to his 15 yr old nephew, who he thought would be alright with
the knife and cautioned him against taking it to school etc. Well a few days
later the kid gets suspended for pulling it on a classmate.
Go figure!
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Drew Diaz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
Anyone have an opinion in re:
What is the appropriate age for a child to get his/her 1st pocket knife-
I'm of the opinion that 2nd grade is OK...
Drew Diaz
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:16:33 -0500
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Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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"Hammarberg, Eric" wrote:
> In a PC way, it depends on the kid (ie: your guess is as good as mine)
>
> Coincidentally, a contractor I met with today relayed a story where he gave
> a pocket knife to his 15 yr old nephew, who he thought would be alright with
> the knife and cautioned him against taking it to school etc. Well a few days
> later the kid gets suspended for pulling it on a classmate.
>
which reminds me that I did promise my daughter a butterfly knife when she
starts dating-
hopefully @ age 27
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:48:13 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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In a PC way, it depends on the kid
I don't remember the age but I've always felt the Boy Scout policy of
teaching safe knife practice and then giving a Toten' Chip card that could be
revoked, along with a confiscated knife, a smart way to go. I think tools
need to be respected and a pocket knife is an introduction to respecting
tools. At what age should a kid be allowed to use a power saw or run a
backhoe? I've known some pretty young kids on the farm running backhoes just
fine. I do have an opinion though on the age for a 22 rifle, which is 12...
it worked for me and I still got it probably because I never did think to
take it to school.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a PC way, it depends on the kid</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I don't remember the age but I've always felt the Boy Scout policy of teaching safe knife practice and then giving a Toten' Chip card that could be revoked, along with a confiscated knife, a smart way to go. I think tools need to be respected and a pocket knife is an introduction to respecting tools. At what age should a kid be allowed to use a power saw or run a backhoe? I've known some pretty young kids on the farm running backhoes just fine. I do have an opinion though on the age for a 22 rifle, which is 12... it worked for me and I still got it probably because I never did think to take it to school.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:18:56 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 3 Jakes
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In a message dated 11/26/2002 3:15:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> JAKE = jointly administered knowledge environment
Is that us?
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/26/2002 3:15:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">JAKE = jointly administered knowledge environment</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Is that us?<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:25:08 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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In a message dated 11/26/2002 4:13:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Coincidentally, a contractor I met with today relayed a story where he gave
> a pocket knife to his 15 yr old nephew, who he thought would be alright
> with
> the knife and cautioned him against taking it to school etc. Well a few
> days
> later the kid gets suspended for pulling it on a classmate.
>
>
Yeah, well, a certain retired Boy Scout of my acquaintance went on an Indian
Guide "campout" (where everybody slept in buildings), during which a
surprisingly large number of dads who'd signed an agreement not to imbibe
alcohol did exactly that. Anyway, this particular dad decided that he we was
much smarter and more able than a bunch of drunken dentists and tire
salesmen, and decided to split a tree branch about the size of your thumb,
using his trusty Swish Army Knife.
Well, this dickhead wound up slicing into his left hand between thumb and
index finger when the knife slipped off the partially frozen branch and had
to be driven to the emergency room in the middle of the goddam night by one
of the other 3 sober dads present.
Fortunately, all I have to show for it is a scar.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/26/2002 4:13:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Coincidentally, a contractor I met with today relayed a story where he gave<BR>
a pocket knife to his 15 yr old nephew, who he thought would be alright with<BR>
the knife and cautioned him against taking it to school etc. Well a few days<BR>
later the kid gets suspended for pulling it on a classmate.<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Yeah, well, a certain retired Boy Scout of my acquaintance went on an Indian Guide "campout" (where everybody slept in buildings), during which a surprisingly large number of dads who'd signed an agreement not to imbibe alcohol did exactly that. Anyway, this particular dad decided that he we was much smarter and more able than a bunch of drunken dentists and tire salesmen, and decided to split a tree branch about the size of your thumb, using his trusty Swish Army Knife. <BR>
<BR>
Well, this dickhead wound up slicing into his left hand between thumb and index finger when the knife slipped off the partially frozen branch and had to be driven to the emergency room in the middle of the goddam night by one of the other 3 sober dads present.<BR>
<BR>
Fortunately, all I have to show for it is a scar.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:18:22 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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In a message dated 11/26/02 9:25:37 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Fortunately, all I have to show for it is a scar. Ralph
But Ralph, you didn't tell us about the guy who cut himself. What happened
to him?
Sign me, Vulgar Language Does Not Make You Eloquent
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/26/02 9:25:37 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Fortunately, all I have to show for it is a scar. Ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
But Ralph, you didn't tell us about the guy who cut himself. What happened to him? <BR>
Sign me, Vulgar Language Does Not Make You Eloquent<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:48:27 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Heidi Harendza <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compromise WWHD? (What Would Howard Do?)
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In a message dated 11/24/2002 11:57:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< I don't think you need to "subscribe to the Howard Roark theory of
architecture" to hold the opinion that, the thicker the bureaucracy, the more
finely minced is the artistic impulse.
Read also the battle-statements made by the non-profit preservation groups
involved in such discussions - they show little evidence of connoisseurship
or real architectural concerns - they are simply about bulk, shadows, views
of existing tenancies, construction noise. In such an environment, could even
Howard have a chance? >>
I generally subscribe to the idea that preservation policy is a means of
managing change within a community-- it is rarely a matter of history for
history sake. The politics of aesthetics and property are an unsavory yet
inevitable result. But with so few tools to moderate change in a rapidly
morphing society, can we blame partisans from using any means available to
gain a measure of control within the built envoronment?
The idea of moderation, I think, affects new design as well. While it may
inhibit outstanding design, it also protects against awful intrusions.
However, I also think that many designers are not particularly sensitive to
the scale and rhythm of the environment. But I'm rather critical of many new
designs-- philistine that I am, if someone has to 'explain' a building for me
to appreciate it, then it's failed a fundamental test.
I'm reminded of a lovely square in London-- there was a mix of housing on the
street ranging from several Georgian townhouses to a lovely Moderne apartment
complex. The modern building, with its graceful sweeping curves on the front,
was clearly different from other buildings on the street, but blended
beautifully with the streetscape. While I'm sure this building won't ever be
considered an architectural masterwork, it made a far more important
statement by accepting the existing environment, rather than straining to
alter what was already an established space.
To make a literary analogy-- it's like a sonnet as compared to free verse.
Yes there are more constraints, but with creative application, the form is
infinitely varied.
Now all we need are a couple of Brownings and Shakespeares.
-Heidi
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:25:04 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Report from Fatherhood--long
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My boy got to carry his own pocket knife when he had demonstrated the
ability to keep his bench knife sharp and use it safely, maybe he was about
11. He probably had been using and sharpening his bench knife, which stayed
on his bench, for about 3 years, usually with my supervision and guidance.
In my own case my dad wouldn't give me a pocket knife and just wouldn't give
a pocket knife, and then later on he still wouldn't, always saying, "you'll
cut yourself." So, I determined to make one for myself and keep it hidden
away. I knew there were two secrets to making a pocket knife: The Stone and
The Rivet. The first was easy and the second was unfathomable. First, was
the old round grindstone that leaned up against the tree out in the front
yard. It was a flat white sandstone, about two feet across, and had a square
hole in the middle of it. This stone had the magic ability to turn dull grey
metal into a sharp steelly edge. I had seen my dad do it many times, as he
stepped out to visit with the neighbor, that I had it down by heart: Take
the knife out of your pocket and open it up, hooch down with your knee
against the stone, spit on the blade of the knife, and touch the blade to
the stone. It was the knee and the spit that made it work, I had seen it
with my own eyes, a bright steelly edge so sharp it could cleanly shave the
hair off the back of his hand, as he demonstrated for the neighbor so many
times.
The rivet was still a mystery. These were little pins of metal that held the
sides on the knife and provided a pivot for opening the blade. I could see
how the rivet worked, and for the longest time I wondered how to make one.
Then one day my dad and I were making a new stovepipe for the woodstove.
After cutting a square of sheet metal and forming it into a cylinder he
reached up and pulled down an old wooden cigar box, and said those magic
words, "now, we'll just rivet this seam right up." The cigar box held
several sizes and types of rivets and the all important rivet set, a steel
tool with holes and dimples of various sizes that matched the rivets. We
lined up the sheet metal seams, drilled holes for the rivets, popped a rivet
in each hole, set the rivet with a tamp of a hammer, and then peened over
the head of the rivets--so that's what a ball'peen' hammer is for. HA.
Unknown to my dad, he had revealed to me the great Secret of the Rivets.
That whole summer I was busy on my knives whenever my dad was not around.
First I made a bench knife with a blade from a scrap of the stovepipe
sheetmetal and split pine handles fastened with copper rivets from the cigar
box. But, I couldn't really get the stone to sharpen the edge. I had the
knee, the spit, but I could not get the touch right. Then it struck me, the
neighbor was part of the magic formula. I call him over by the tree for a
little visit. As I did the knee, the spit and the touch he could see I was
not getting an edge so he suggested, just rub it back and forth. Ah, ha!
Grey metal into bright steely edge--I was in business! I got it sharp enough
to whittle out the hickory handle for my next knife, a true clasping pocket
knife, made with an old pocket knife blade I found in the kitchen junk
drawer, and a little leaf spring from an old broken clock, which kept the
blade locked open. Once it was all riveted together I sanded the hickory
handles and rubbed them on my nose to brighten up the grain. Excited, I ran
out front to the stone which began to work its magic and I was getting a
nice bright steely edge. I glanced over and saw my dad's shoe laying there
by the tree and thought that it was odd he would leave his shoes laying
around in the front yard. Then it moved-YIKES, my dad was attached to that
shoe, my dad saw the knife, my goose was cooked. I crouched there, kept my
eyes on the stone as my trembling hand offered the knife up to my dad. My
eye's watered up, knowing they would never see that knife again, tan hickory
and bright steely edge, never again. Dad said, "Look here," my eyes met his
and tears rolled out making little dark spots on the stone below. With a
grin he said, "this is a fine knife. You can't keep a secret, but you can
keep this pocket knife." Then he showed me one last pocket knife
secret--"always keep the edge moving away from you and you will never cut
yourself." He closed the knife and placed it in my hand. With a deep breath
I slipped the knife into my pocket and gave it a pat. As we turned together
I noticed the neighbor over on his porch and all three of us grinning.
John (with pocket knife scar on right index finger) Leeke
copyright 2002 John C. Leeke
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:29:44 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood--long
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thanks John
(father of 8 and 5 year old boys and 6 week daughter)
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: John Leeke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Report from Fatherhood--long
My boy got to carry his own pocket knife when he had demonstrated the
ability to keep his bench knife sharp and use it safely, maybe he was about
11. He probably had been using and sharpening his bench knife, which stayed
on his bench, for about 3 years, usually with my supervision and guidance.
In my own case my dad wouldn't give me a pocket knife and just wouldn't give
a pocket knife, and then later on he still wouldn't, always saying, "you'll
cut yourself." So, I determined to make one for myself and keep it hidden
away. I knew there were two secrets to making a pocket knife: The Stone and
The Rivet. The first was easy and the second was unfathomable. First, was
the old round grindstone that leaned up against the tree out in the front
yard. It was a flat white sandstone, about two feet across, and had a square
hole in the middle of it. This stone had the magic ability to turn dull grey
metal into a sharp steelly edge. I had seen my dad do it many times, as he
stepped out to visit with the neighbor, that I had it down by heart: Take
the knife out of your pocket and open it up, hooch down with your knee
against the stone, spit on the blade of the knife, and touch the blade to
the stone. It was the knee and the spit that made it work, I had seen it
with my own eyes, a bright steelly edge so sharp it could cleanly shave the
hair off the back of his hand, as he demonstrated for the neighbor so many
times.
The rivet was still a mystery. These were little pins of metal that held the
sides on the knife and provided a pivot for opening the blade. I could see
how the rivet worked, and for the longest time I wondered how to make one.
Then one day my dad and I were making a new stovepipe for the woodstove.
After cutting a square of sheet metal and forming it into a cylinder he
reached up and pulled down an old wooden cigar box, and said those magic
words, "now, we'll just rivet this seam right up." The cigar box held
several sizes and types of rivets and the all important rivet set, a steel
tool with holes and dimples of various sizes that matched the rivets. We
lined up the sheet metal seams, drilled holes for the rivets, popped a rivet
in each hole, set the rivet with a tamp of a hammer, and then peened over
the head of the rivets--so that's what a ball'peen' hammer is for. HA.
Unknown to my dad, he had revealed to me the great Secret of the Rivets.
That whole summer I was busy on my knives whenever my dad was not around.
First I made a bench knife with a blade from a scrap of the stovepipe
sheetmetal and split pine handles fastened with copper rivets from the cigar
box. But, I couldn't really get the stone to sharpen the edge. I had the
knee, the spit, but I could not get the touch right. Then it struck me, the
neighbor was part of the magic formula. I call him over by the tree for a
little visit. As I did the knee, the spit and the touch he could see I was
not getting an edge so he suggested, just rub it back and forth. Ah, ha!
Grey metal into bright steely edge--I was in business! I got it sharp enough
to whittle out the hickory handle for my next knife, a true clasping pocket
knife, made with an old pocket knife blade I found in the kitchen junk
drawer, and a little leaf spring from an old broken clock, which kept the
blade locked open. Once it was all riveted together I sanded the hickory
handles and rubbed them on my nose to brighten up the grain. Excited, I ran
out front to the stone which began to work its magic and I was getting a
nice bright steely edge. I glanced over and saw my dad's shoe laying there
by the tree and thought that it was odd he would leave his shoes laying
around in the front yard. Then it moved-YIKES, my dad was attached to that
shoe, my dad saw the knife, my goose was cooked. I crouched there, kept my
eyes on the stone as my trembling hand offered the knife up to my dad. My
eye's watered up, knowing they would never see that knife again, tan hickory
and bright steely edge, never again. Dad said, "Look here," my eyes met his
and tears rolled out making little dark spots on the stone below. With a
grin he said, "this is a fine knife. You can't keep a secret, but you can
keep this pocket knife." Then he showed me one last pocket knife
secret--"always keep the edge moving away from you and you will never cut
yourself." He closed the knife and placed it in my hand. With a deep breath
I slipped the knife into my pocket and gave it a pat. As we turned together
I noticed the neighbor over on his porch and all three of us grinning.
John (with pocket knife scar on right index finger) Leeke
copyright 2002 John C. Leeke
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:18:45 -0500
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood--long
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In a message dated 11/27/2002 3:29:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> (father of 8 and 5 year old boys and 6 week daughter)
Eric,
In view of the above, you might want to consider changing your phone number again. And by the way, congratulations.
Talph
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:14:24 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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In a message dated 11/26/2002 10:18:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sign me, Vulgar Language Does Not Make You Eloquent
You seem to have misunderstood my use of standard Construction Industry
nomenclature. People frequently do.
Ralph
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/26/2002 10:18:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sign me, Vulgar Language Does Not Make You Eloquent</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
You seem to have misunderstood my use of standard Construction Industry nomenclature. People frequently do.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:22:51 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood--long
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In a message dated 11/27/2002 3:27:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> John (with pocket knife scar on right index finger) Leeke
>
Nice story, John. Sounds like you were one fart smeller in your yout', not
just in your dotage.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/27/2002 3:27:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">John (with pocket knife scar on right index finger) Leeke<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Nice story, John. Sounds like you were one fart smeller in your yout', not just in your dotage.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:08:14 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: Report from Fatherhood
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Its not common for architects to fully develop the nomenclature and it
can be quite unsettling coming from an architect. Sort of like Bat Man
without a mask...or rubber muscles.
-jc
Ralph Walter wrote:
> In a message dated 11/26/2002 10:18:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>> Sign me, Vulgar Language Does Not Make You Eloquent
>
> You seem to have misunderstood my use of standard Construction
> Industry nomenclature. People frequently do.
>
> Ralph
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Its not common for architects to fully develop the nomenclature and it
can be quite unsettling coming from an architect. Sort of like Bat
Man without a mask...or rubber muscles.
<p>-jc
<p>Ralph Walter wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>In a message dated
11/26/2002 10:18:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=+0>Sign
me, Vulgar Language Does Not Make You Eloquent</font></font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>You seem to have
misunderstood my use of standard Construction Industry nomenclature.
People frequently do.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Ralph</font></font></font></blockquote>
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:17:33 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
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Subject: Re: knife going
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...Here in the styx....firearm safety and knife saftey....are taught early;
Tonight under the glow of a couple of colemans I watched a father instruct
his 10 yr old son on how to field dress the boys " first" deer ; a buck;
with a "skinner" ;( a sharp curved affair of about 7 inches with a hook at
the end ) that guts the deer; then expertly skins it.
The boy; after his kill was initiated into the rites of passage by having the
deer blood smeared on his facial cheeks by a circle of boys ; with dads
and uncles.
This is a big deal Now it is his pride that he for the first time will "put
food " on his familles table ; This rite of passage; simple and simplistic
runs universal deep in the family circle of the rural south giving maturity
to children of both sexes.
Any irresponsibility regarding firearms or knife handling is a mark of
immaturity; shaming both child and parent and reaps. All the humility
associated with such stigma within the peer group. No matter what the
background of the parent very few kids will ever make the same mistake twice.
In many ways the boys skill with this basic technology of weapons has
allowed him to join the family adults now as a "provider" ; serious stuff
when you are poor and Dad and mom cannot afford to eat out with the whole
family even at a burger joint.
Here in Mississippi the "politically correct "on the nightly news tell us we
are the poorest state in the Union ; yea we(collective we ) live in tin
roof shacks and eek by on part time jobs but the freezers on the porch are
filled with game and fish; and most kids know how cook and clean fish;
rabbit; deer; turkey and make their own bow an arrows; and tend a garden
....something none of our best schools are callable of teaching......Pyrate
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:50:55 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Opportunity Knox
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Ralph, Is this your first invitation? I get them weekly, not always from
the same relative of a big cheese, but from some relative of some big
cheese in some far away place. Always with a hard luck story about bad
guys wanting to get their hands on the dead big cheese's millions or
billions--who's counting. Funny but this farm girl just isn't interested
in all that loot. It's just too much trouble, and besides, charity begins
at home. Please don't squander all our hard earned dues just to, MAYBE,
get some loot for our pensions which are a LOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG way off.
Country Mouse
PS: Here's hoping all your turkeys are tender. Ours is a forty pounder we
raised ourselves.
At 6:20 PM -0500 11/23/02, Ralph Walter wrote:
>Hot damn!
>
>I finally have been invited, by one Robert Savimbi, nephew of the big
>cheese in Angola, to participate in one of these events. I forget whether
>the uncle was the gov't or the rebel, but now he (the uncle) is dead and
>the locals are running around like cattle without a shepherd.
>
>This last is the nephew's phrase; I thought cattle were herded by cowboys,
>and shepherds tended sheep, but what do I know? (This is a rhetorical
>question and your negative response is not invited, but it's kind of you
>to offer.)
>
>Should I invest all the pinhead dues in this? I think the deal is I get
>15% of what's in a cigar box someplace, and 5% of the haul gets donated to
>MY favorite charity, which of course is the Pinhead Pension Fund.
>
>Lemme know. Young Robert got my address through a directory, so he must
>know me very well and respect me highly, just like you guys.
>
>Ralph
>
>--
>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
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--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:40:23 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect, Inc.
Subject: Re: knife going
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Thanks Ruth. I'll share this with my son.
He is now attending a school full of young artists...the offspring of artistic
people. Uncomfortably far to the left of me, where political correctness leaves
little room for appreciation for the folks you describe. So I am forced to
present views, for fear he will not be exposed to them.
Recently he has been going on about the virtues of vegetarian diets...and I have
been musing why he gets his information from people who live in cities and have
no relationships with animals that are not pets. Hardly expertise.
He suggests that people who eat meat should be required to go hunt...and I
respond by describing the cruelty and dangers presented by hunters in the woods
who have no skills.
I resent having my liberal credentials always on trial. Seems to me tolerance
comes from exposure to people, not dogma.
Mississippi has not always been the poorest state. I had the honor of being
unemployed one year while Maine swept Mississippi to the side in its race for
the economic bottom. Many years ago, but I doubt that even today there's that
much difference between being poor in the 50th poorest and the 49th.
Hmmmm....maybe even in the least poor state.
-jc
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> ...Here in the styx....firearm safety and knife saftey....are taught early;
> Tonight under the glow of a couple of colemans I watched a father instruct
> his 10 yr old son on how to field dress the boys " first" deer ; a buck;
> with a "skinner" ;( a sharp curved affair of about 7 inches with a hook at
> the end ) that guts the deer; then expertly skins it.
> The boy; after his kill was initiated into the rites of passage by having the
> deer blood smeared on his facial cheeks by a circle of boys ; with dads
> and uncles.
> This is a big deal Now it is his pride that he for the first time will "put
> food " on his familles table ; This rite of passage; simple and simplistic
> runs universal deep in the family circle of the rural south giving maturity
> to children of both sexes.
>
> Any irresponsibility regarding firearms or knife handling is a mark of
> immaturity; shaming both child and parent and reaps. All the humility
> associated with such stigma within the peer group. No matter what the
> background of the parent very few kids will ever make the same mistake twice.
>
> In many ways the boys skill with this basic technology of weapons has
> allowed him to join the family adults now as a "provider" ; serious stuff
> when you are poor and Dad and mom cannot afford to eat out with the whole
> family even at a burger joint.
> Here in Mississippi the "politically correct "on the nightly news tell us we
> are the poorest state in the Union ; yea we(collective we ) live in tin
> roof shacks and eek by on part time jobs but the freezers on the porch are
> filled with game and fish; and most kids know how cook and clean fish;
> rabbit; deer; turkey and make their own bow an arrows; and tend a garden
> ....something none of our best schools are callable of teaching......Pyrate
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:59:35 EST
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Opportunity Knox
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In a message dated 11/28/2002 6:45:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ralph, Is this your first invitation? Yes, and I was SO excited about it
> until you rained on my Thanksgiving Day parade! I get them weekly, not
> always from the same relative of a big cheese, but from some relative of
> some big
> cheese in some far away place. Always with a hard luck story about bad
> guys wanting to get their hands on the dead big cheese's millions or
> billions--who's counting. Funny but this farm girl just isn't interested
> in all that loot. How short sighted of you. It's just too much trouble, I
> got news for ya-- I see most everything as too muhc trouble. and besides,
> charity begins at home. Please don't squander all our hard earned dues
> just to, MAYBE,
> get some loot for our pensions which are a LOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG way off. Not
> to worry about your penny-ante pensions---our boy Dubya is investing them
> safely with his friends on Wall Street so that he can cut their taxes and
> more will come back to you.
>
> And why would anybody want a home-grown 40 lb turkey when you could drive
> 15 minutes to the chain grocery store and get a free frozen 10 pounder in
> exchange for having spend thousands of dollars at the grocery store over
> the course of a year?
>
> Happy turkey to all, from one who knows from turkeys.
>
> Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/28/2002 6:45:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ralph, Is this your first invitation? <B>Yes, and I was SO excited about it until you rained on my Thanksgiving Day parade! </B>I get them weekly, not always from the same relative of a big cheese, but from some relative of some big<BR>
cheese in some far away place. Always with a hard luck story about bad<BR>
guys wanting to get their hands on the dead big cheese's millions or<BR>
billions--who's counting. Funny but this farm girl just isn't interested<BR>
in all that loot. <B>How short sighted of you. </B>It's just too much trouble, <B>I got news for ya-- I see most everything as too muhc trouble. </B>and besides, charity begins at home. Please don't squander all our hard earned dues just to, MAYBE,<BR>
get some loot for our pensions which are a LOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG way off. <B>Not to worry about your penny-ante pensions---our boy Dubya is investing them safely with his friends on Wall Street so that he can cut their taxes and more will come back to you. <BR>
<BR>
And why would anybody want a home-grown 40 lb turkey when you could drive 15 minutes to the chain grocery store and get a free frozen 10 pounder in exchange for having spend thousands of dollars at the grocery store over the course of a year?<BR>
<BR>
Happy turkey to all, from one who knows from turkeys.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:51:01 -0800
Reply-To: make easy -- get sakcrete
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Opportunity Knox
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Ralph, That ain't no turkey---that's just a big ol stewin' hen. They sure
got you fooled don't they? HaHaHappy Thanksgiving to all and to all a good
night, unless I find some more info that I know nothing about to comment
upon.
BTW: Turkey was delicous
At 1:59 PM -0500 11/28/02, Ralph Walter wrote:
And why would anybody want a home-grown 40 lb turkey when you could drive
15 minutes to the chain grocery store and get a free frozen 10 pounder in
exchange for having spend thousands of dollars at the grocery store over
the course of a year?
Happy turkey to all, from one who knows from turkeys.
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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