--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:12:15 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pheasant Hunting
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_10d.19883465.2ae5734f_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:36:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> You just shoot 'em and bring 'em on up heah to Vermont and I'll roast
> 'em up just fine.
Ruth,
They may be a bit ripe by the time I get to VT. Where are you in relation to
Burlington?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:36:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You just shoot 'em and bring 'em on up heah to Vermont and I'll roast<BR>
'em up just fine. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ruth,<BR>
<BR>
They may be a bit ripe by the time I get to VT. Where are you in relation to Burlington?<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
--part1_10d.19883465.2ae5734f_boundary--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:05:11 -0700
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Dan Becker - Are you perhaps Dan Becker or the other Dan Becker?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dan,
Is it at all possible that you are/were once the Dan Becker from the Cornell
Ag Research facility at Geneva, NY who was a heritage plant specialist? In
the early 1980 's he created the Cornell Heritage Seed Package with seeds
for a variety of old time (1800's) vegies intended for use at historic sites
and home restorations, hoping to encourage a more authentic use of plant
material in heritage interpretation. The seeds were sold publically by
mail order. He later said it had become a bit of a nightmare and he wished
he had never created it because so many folks accepted it as a simple way to
be "authentic" when actually everywhere has its own unique history of plant
varieties relevant to restoration projects. Rather than stimulating more
research here and there, it became a quick fix everywhere. With the
"credibility" of it coming from Cornell, there appeared to be no need to
think further.
cp, smiling in sunny bc
(I wonder if I already asked this question? Sorry for the repeat if I have.)
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:44:47 -0700
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Winter? & Heritage Gardening?
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Thanks for the info. Out here, SASCO is a familiar cement =
manufacturer, so at first I briefly wondered if you meant I should =
simply encase the building in concrete.
This certainly is a diverse world. The first (too simple) web search =
for "SASCO" popped up over 100 various other SASCO's for "The best mimic =
coins in the world"; Race Car Restoration; Saudi Automotive Services =
Co.; Marine Vessel Tracking Software; Medical Plastics and an Arizona =
Ghost Town.
The Boracol Glass Rods sound interesting.
cp in buggy bc
----- Original Message -----=20
From: J. Bryan Blundell=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Winter? & Heritage Gardening?
=20
Cuyler Page wrote:=20
Subject: Winter?=20
The worst possibility of a warm winter here is that the insects that =
are normally killed off by freezing may not be. I worry for our 125 =
year old pine log mill that has been so well protected from bugs for so =
many years.=20
=20
jcp:=20
If there is a need for adding some additional protection against wood =
decay fungi and wood boring insects to help compensate for the unusual =
weather, you can get in touch with=20
=20
http://www.sasco.ns.ca/ , the firm supplies borate based Boracol=AE =
liquid (European product) wood preservative in Canada.=20
JBB=20
------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C278EE.E0303340
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Thanks for the info. Out here, SASCO is a familiar =
cement=20
manufacturer, so at first I briefly wondered if you meant I should =
simply encase=20
the building in concrete.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This certainly is a diverse world. The first (too =
simple)=20
web search for "SASCO" popped up over 100 various other SASCO's for =
"The=20
best mimic coins in the world"; Race Car Restoration; Saudi Automotive =
Services=20
Co.; Marine Vessel Tracking Software; Medical Plastics and an Arizona =
Ghost=20
Town.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Boracol Glass Rods sound interesting.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>cp in buggy bc</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" [log in to unmask]>J. Bryan =
Blundell</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
=
[log in to unmask]>BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS@MAE=
LSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 21, 2002 =
5:43=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Winter? & =
Heritage=20
Gardening?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV> =20
<P>Cuyler Page wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">Subject: Winter? <BR>The worst possibility =
of a warm=20
winter here is that the insects that are normally killed off by =
freezing may=20
not be. I worry for our 125 year old pine log mill that =
has been=20
so well protected from bugs for so many years. =
<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT=20
color=3D#3333ff>jcp:</FONT><FONT color=3D#3333ff></FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#3333ff>If there is a need for adding some additional =
protection against wood decay fungi and wood boring insects to help =
compensate=20
for the unusual weather, you can get in touch with</FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3333ff></FONT>=20
<P><IMG alt=3D"Sasco Products Limited" border=3D0 height=3D60=20
src=3D"cid:000801c27929$8c65d860$0100007f@default" width=3D600><FONT=20
color=3D#3333ff></FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#3333ff><B><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sasco.ns.ca/">http://www.sasco.ns.ca/</A></B> , the =
firm=20
supplies borate based Boracol=AE liquid (European product) wood =
preservative in=20
Canada.</FONT><FONT color=3D#3333ff></FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#3333ff>JBB</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C278EE.E0303340--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:54:18 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "J. Bryan Blundell" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Winter? & Heritage Gardening?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I assume, you are a true hands-on do-it-yourself preservationist, even
though you were provided the URL for the before mentioned SASCO, you still
felt the need to do your own web search. Damn, you're a hard one to
convince. Are you sure you are not from Missouri?
JBB in shooters alley
============
Cuyler Page wrote:
> Thanks for the info. Out here, SASCO is a familiar cement manufacturer,
> so at first I briefly wondered if you meant I should simply encase the
> building in concrete. This certainly is a diverse world. The first (too
> simple) web search for "SASCO" popped up over 100 various other SASCO's
> for "The best mimic coins in the world"; Race Car Restoration; Saudi
> Automotive Services Co.; Marine Vessel Tracking Software; Medical
> Plastics and an Arizona Ghost Town. The Boracol Glass Rods sound
> interesting. cp in buggy bc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: J. Bryan Blundell
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 5:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Winter? & Heritage Gardening?
>
>
> Cuyler Page wrote:
>
> > Subject: Winter?
> > The worst possibility of a warm winter here is that the
> > insects that are normally killed off by freezing may not
> > be. I worry for our 125 year old pine log mill that has
> > been so well protected from bugs for so many years.
>
> jcp:
>
> If there is a need for adding some additional protection
> against wood decay fungi and wood boring insects to help
> compensate for the unusual weather, you can get in touch with
>
> [Sasco Products Limited]
>
> http://www.sasco.ns.ca/ , the firm supplies borate based
> Boracol® liquid (European product) wood preservative in Canada.
>
> JBB
>
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<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<font color="#3333FF"> I assume, you are a true hands-on do-it-yourself
preservationist, even though you were provided the URL for the before mentioned
SASCO, you still felt the need to do your own web search. Damn, you're
a hard one to convince. Are you sure you are not from Missouri?</font><font color="#3333FF"></font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">JBB in shooters alley</font>
<br><font color="#3333FF">============</font>
<p>Cuyler Page wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
Thanks for the info.
Out here, SASCO is a familiar cement manufacturer, so at first I briefly
wondered if you meant I should simply encase the building in concrete. This
certainly is a diverse world. The first (too simple) web search
for "SASCO" popped up over 100 various other SASCO's for "The best mimic
coins in the world"; Race Car Restoration; Saudi Automotive Services Co.;
Marine Vessel Tracking Software; Medical Plastics and an Arizona Ghost
Town. The Boracol Glass Rods sound interesting. cp in buggy bc
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" title="[log in to unmask]">J. Bryan Blundell</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" title="[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 21, 2002 5:43
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Winter? & Heritage
Gardening?</div>
<p>Cuyler Page wrote:
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">Subject: Winter?
<br>The worst possibility of a warm winter here is that the insects that
are normally killed off by freezing may not be. I worry for
our 125 year old pine log mill that has been so well protected from bugs
for so many years.</blockquote>
<font color="#3333FF">jcp:</font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">If there is a need for adding some additional
protection against wood decay fungi and wood boring insects to help compensate
for the unusual weather, you can get in touch with</font>
<p><img SRC="cid:part1.3DB44D5A.2DE77FE7@PRGinc.com" ALT="Sasco Products Limited" BORDER=0 height=60 width=600>
<p><font color="#3333FF"><b><a href="http://www.sasco.ns.ca/">http://www.sasco.ns.ca/</a></b>
, the firm supplies borate based Boracol® liquid (European product)
wood preservative in Canada.</font>
<p><font color="#3333FF">JBB</font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
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--------------38F0A483ED3727CBE7E45900--
--------------D3FB988C3B81C343212C0F71--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:56:57 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Dan Becker - Are you perhaps Dan Becker or the other Dan
Becker?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cuyler Page
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 2:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Dan Becker - Are you perhaps Dan Becker or the other=20
> Dan Becker?
>=20
>=20
> Is it at all possible that you are/were once the Dan Becker=20
> from the Cornell
> Ag Research facility at Geneva, NY who was a heritage plant=20
> specialist? =20
Nope. I do buildings. Growing stuff confuses me. Which is why I have a
cool house in a less than scintillating landscape.
> (I wonder if I already asked this question? Sorry for the=20
> repeat if I have.)
Nope. This is the first I've heard about that someone else. I can only
say that after my brief college design school flirtation with being
Buckminster Fuller, then Frank Lloyd Wright, followed by Bruce Goff,
I've always been me.
Sign me,
dan oh that dan becker becker
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:21:30 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cotswald cottage
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_131.15cb30eb.2ae5adba_boundary"
--part1_131.15cb30eb.2ae5adba_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about 5
> different buildings all put together in one.
Sounds like a FORD.
][<en
--part1_131.15cb30eb.2ae5adba_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about 5<BR>
different buildings all put together in one.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Sounds like a FORD.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_131.15cb30eb.2ae5adba_boundary--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:08:55 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stained Glass
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_60.27c8c586.2ae5b8d7_boundary"
--part1_60.27c8c586.2ae5b8d7_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 10/21/2002 2:54:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> We are in New England.
>
Check out Corning Glass works on the web.
][<en
--part1_60.27c8c586.2ae5b8d7_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/21/2002 2:54:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We are in New England.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Check out Corning Glass works on the web.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
--part1_60.27c8c586.2ae5b8d7_boundary--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:43:30 -0700
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Winter? & Heritage Gardening?
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. I assume, you are a true hands-on do-it-yourself preservationist, even =
though you were provided the URL for the before mentioned SASCO, you =
still felt the need to do your own web search. Damn, you're a hard one =
to convince. Are you sure you are not from Missouri?=20
JBB in shooters alley
No, not from Missouri, but certainly from a hands-on place without =
easy continuous computer-web connection. I live off a lap and only =
have momentary access from one workplace where I have to use the =
reception desk phone jack to plug in to the only phone line in the place =
that functions sufficiently for internet connection, enough for e-mails, =
but not to go web searching at the same time. =20
"Hands-on" describes it better than you might imagine. The other =
place I live enjoys a local web server run by a little local society =
since no commercial server would consider the place. For years, the =
dedicated members have kept a little system of mini-microwave repeaters =
going over the mountain to make a connection to the town on the other =
side. Lightning, falling trees and high winds keep challenging the =
system. Normal phone lines here are not adequate for a long distance =
call to a commercial server because the wires are so old and broken that =
they will not hold an internet connection for more than a few minutes =
most of the time, especially if it is windy. The phone company says =
that they may be replacing the lines around 2020.
So, thanks for the URL. Unfortunately it was out of sight below the =
screen during my moment on the net, and I quickly GOOGLED. The nice =
thing about this primitive system is that it leads to so many =
interesting discoveries that rationality would bypass.
cp in bc - over the hill (but not far e-way)
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>.</FONT><FONT color=3D#3333ff> I =
assume, you are=20
a true hands-on do-it-yourself preservationist, even though you were =
provided=20
the URL for the before mentioned SASCO, you still felt the need to do =
your own=20
web search. Damn, you're a hard one to convince. Are you sure you =
are not=20
from Missouri?</FONT><FONT color=3D#3333ff></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<P><FONT color=3D#3333ff>JBB in shooters alley</FONT></P>
<P>No, not from Missouri, but certainly from a hands-on place without =
easy=20
continuous computer-web connection. I live off a lap and =
only have=20
momentary access from one workplace where I have to use the=20
reception desk phone jack to plug in to the only phone line in the =
place that=20
functions sufficiently for internet connection, enough for =
e-mails, but=20
not to go web searching at the same time. </P>
<P>"Hands-on" describes it better than you might imagine. The =
other=20
place I live enjoys a local web server run by a little local =
society=20
since no commercial server would consider the place. For =
years,=20
the dedicated members have kept a little system of mini-microwave =
repeaters going over the mountain to make a connection to the town on =
the=20
other side. Lightning, falling trees and high winds keep=20
challenging the system. Normal phone lines here are=20
not adequate for a long distance call to a commercial =
server because=20
the wires are so old and broken that they will not hold an internet =
connection=20
for more than a few minutes most of the time, especially if it is =
windy. =20
The phone company says that they may be replacing the lines around =
2020.</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, thanks for the URL. =
Unfortunately it was=20
out of sight below the screen during my moment on the net, and I =
quickly=20
GOOGLED. The nice thing about this primitive system is =
that it=20
leads to so many interesting discoveries that rationality would=20
bypass.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cp in bc</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> =20
- over the hill (but not far =
e-way)</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:52:33 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert J. Cagnetta" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Stained Glass
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Thanks for the info. Apparently, a method is to "paint" the glass with a
enamel and fire it to the point before it remelts, so the enamel can bond
into the glass.
Rob
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:06:45 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dan Lane <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 18 Oct 2002 to 19 Oct 2002
(#2002-281)
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What about the Superbowl? I only heard about this year's World =
Series!!!
- Pam "The only sport in our house is English Football" Stevenson
Pam, If you're an Arsenal fan, my apologies, but I do want to see the =
goal that lost them the streak.
-=3D-Dan Lane =20
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 4:01 AM
To: Recipients of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS digests
Subject: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 18 Oct 2002 to 19 Oct 2002
(#2002-281)
There are 12 messages totalling 624 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Stifling discussion? Or... Eastern White pIne
2. Production... (3)
3. Blank days (4)
4. Why is everybody always criticizing...
5. Cotswald cottage (2)
6. Stifling discussion? Or....
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:22:44 -0400
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or... Eastern White pIne
John,
You use eastern white pine for thresholds by choice, convenience or
because it is a historical replacement match?
Leland
Research and Restore
-----Original Message-----
From: The "listen to the silence" listserv ....
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Leeke
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
I think that when the unrelated chatter becomes a problem it is due to
the expectation of the reader. When I pick up a plank of Eastern White
Pine down at the mill, I expect to trim off the end checks, rip off the
wainy edges, work around the knots and have a few select clear-grain
cuttings, which I will plane and work into new thresholds for an old
building. We might find the solution by leading ourselves and new
listees to expect a certian signal to noise ratio.
I see BP as a natural resource that needs refining before use. As was
said, if I want preservation gold, I buy a book, take a course or hire
the specialist. But, since I like prospecting and enjoy the view down
the gulch, up along the ridge and white caps beyond, I subscibe to BP.
The view has little to do with preservation, but it is why I live life.
John
by hammer and hand great works do stand
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:24:15 -0400
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
John and Ken,
It is all about production or you will not be doing the work.
Once the specifications are made the task is to devise the best
production methods. Most of the work I am involved with has a
tradeskill/hour estimate. Once you quantify the task then budgets and
estimates are based on how many persons at what skill level will be
required. If the job is bid and the bidder does not allocate suitable
skilled labor where required then the bidder is disqualified.
There is a time for thinking and a time for working. If there
are a few days of electrical work to be done do I need three men at the
rate of an E1? Probably not. If I have a wall to repoint how many
thinkers do I need on site? When the work commences, I want skilled,
production workers. They can be philosophers and be cell phone addicts,
during breaks and after work. The great majority of craftsman I admire,
rarely talk while they work. (And what's with the youngest, greenest
worker getting to choose the radio station?)
A good budget includes cost estimates for items that may not be
seen, but due to experience can be anticipated. I call these
predictable contingencies and they can be quantified as alternates. A
example of same is in the roofing industry it is standard to set a SF
rate for deck replacement. An educated guesstimate of cost and time can
be made based on experience. If you have done one or two sill
replacements on a 1750's farm house in Vermont you might have a hard
time giving a price and you would have "The fear of naming a number".
If you've done twenty five you can confidently say: " I've done a
bunch of these and they usually run about this much. Would you like me
to take off a few boards, then I can give you a better idea?"
Good craftsmen/business owners are always working to improve
production. We often talk about the lack of apprenticeship programs and
accreditation, but even in the education that is available I don't
remember seeing anything on production. I do know that in Ken's and my
case the cost of our labor pool is fixed and often higher than our
competition (and more skilled) and it is how we determine to skin the
cat that determines if we get the job. If we can find a better way to
access the site or work a full day uninterrupted by weather or find
better protective head gear or quantify work prior to getting to the
site better, we improve production.
I think every good craftsman would admit that he does a lot of
thinking off the job, that is why he is good: Anticipation. How do I
load my truck? What is every conceivable tool and material I will need
today so that I do not need to leave the site? I need to grind and
sharpen my 2" chisel. I have talked to many craftsman that look at the
job after clean-up at the end of the day and can't rest until they have
been able to build the solution in their heads.
As with a great athlete, all the talent and training does not make up
for game time.
Research and Restore!
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: The "listen to the silence" listserv ....
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Leeke
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: So what's the deal on the expansion joints...
Ken writes:
>>Not fair to compare the mind-set of production masons
with those who tinker in histo presto or really fine work. Histo presto
masons usually get booted off production jobs because they think....
thinking slows down the process of setting brick. Thinking causes a
commotion and delays production. <<
Ken:
May I quote you on this? Early on I noticed this. Back in the 1970s as a
tradesperson I was alternately accused and praised for "working
delibrately." I now can see that part of the deliberation was thinking
about what I was doing. It was so true that I eventually adopted a
policy of telling clients that work will slow down when I arrive,
because I usually have to get the tradespeople to think about what they
are doing. We can sometimes set an objective for the work to speed back
up again, occasionally to a higher rate than before, as a result of
solutions, training, etc.
John
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:09:52 EDT
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/18/02 7:25:54 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Once the specifications are made the task is to devise the best
> production methods.
The production methods for the caulk on the zig-zag expansion joint at =
the
Jewish Community Center on 76th and Amsterdam was by a large, blunt =
thumb,
apparently operated by a drunk in a hailstorm. I examined it myself
yesterday. What's more, although the pointing is charcoal grey like a =
good
suit, the caulk is "bronze" (aka brown). Best, Christopher (Going to =
look
at a dog in New Hope tomorrow)
PS Leland, thank you, you are swell. Sign me, Moby
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 10/18/02 7:25:54 AM, =
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Once the =
specifications are made the task is to devise the best<BR>
production methods. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
The production methods for the caulk on the zig-zag expansion joint at =
the Jewish Community Center on 76th and Amsterdam was by a large, blunt =
thumb, apparently operated by a drunk in a hailstorm. I examined it =
myself yesterday. What's more, although the pointing is charcoal =
grey like a good suit, the caulk is "bronze" (aka =
brown). Best, Christopher (Going to look at a =
dog in New Hope tomorrow)<BR>
<BR>
PS Leland, thank you, you are swell. Sign me, Moby</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:16:47 -0400
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
(And what's with the youngest, greenest
> worker getting to choose the radio station?)
> > Leland
>
Everybody else knows they are there to earn a living and get on with
the work. The young often seem to think that work must be an
entertaining, minimally intrusive inconvenience in their self-centered
world. We need their strong backs, so we tolerate the noise.
Eventually, hopefully, they grow up and recognize that work can have
meaning and that proficiency and consistency are rewarded in a much
more tangible manner.
Then, again, there are some who find their radios in the dumpster
after repeated warnings that there is an OSHA noise limit.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:01:58 -0400
From: Christopher Tavener <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Blank days
I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and =
am
wondering if there is anything wrong?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:11:42 EDT
From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blank days
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In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks =
and am
> wondering if there is anything wrong?
Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In your absence we have =
successfully
eliminated world evil and have determined the outcome of the 2003 =
Superbowl.
Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy admin person will no doubt have =
to
adjust your settings at the Mother of all Motherboards at St. Johns.edu.
Julip.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated =
10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] =
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I haven't =
received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and am<BR>
wondering if there is anything wrong?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In your absence we have =
successfully eliminated world evil and have determined the outcome of =
the 2003 Superbowl. Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy admin person =
will no doubt have to adjust your settings at the Mother of all =
Motherboards at St. Johns.edu.<BR>
<BR>
Julip.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:38:14 -0400
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blank days
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not =
understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--Boundary_(ID_Lyl3YOLjXZB8RBs/jCWUog)
Content-type: text/plain
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Krugman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Blank days
In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and =
am
wondering if there is anything wrong?
Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In your absence we have =
successfully
eliminated world evil and have determined the outcome of the 2003 =
Superbowl.
Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy admin person will no doubt have =
to
adjust your settings at the Mother of all Motherboards at St. Johns.edu.
Julip.
--Boundary_(ID_Lyl3YOLjXZB8RBs/jCWUog)
Content-type: text/html
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D738143713-18102002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
color=3D#0000ff
size=3D2>What about the Superbowl? I only heard about this year's =
World
Series!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D738143713-18102002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
color=3D#0000ff
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D738143713-18102002><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
color=3D#0000ff
size=3D2>- Pam "The only sport in our house is English Football"
Stevenson</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mary Krugman
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 18, 2002 9:12
AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Blank days<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>In
a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE=3D"CITE">I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the =
last two
weeks and am<BR>wondering if there is anything
wrong?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed =
it! In
your absence we have successfully eliminated world evil and have =
determined
the outcome of the 2003 Superbowl. Sorry you couldn't make it. Some =
brainy
admin person will no doubt have to adjust your settings at the Mother =
of all
Motherboards at St.
Johns.edu.<BR><BR>Julip.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>=
--Boundary_(ID_Lyl3YOLjXZB8RBs/jCWUog)--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:02:26 -0400
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blank days
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Tavener
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:02 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Blank days
>=3D20
>=3D20
> I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last=3D20
> two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
Some would consider that a blessing. I checked your subscription and
your settings are fine, so I don't know what's going on.
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:42:40 EDT
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Why is everybody always criticizing...
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In a message dated 10/18/02 10:02:58 AM, [log in to unmask] =
writes:
> > I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last
> > two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
>
>
....Ralph? Sign me, Lightning Rod
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" =
FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 10/18/02 10:02:58 =
AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> I haven't =
received the daily digest regularly for the last
<BR>> two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
<BR>
<BR>Some would consider that a blessing</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" =
FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">
<BR>....Ralph? =
&=
nbsp; Sign =
me, Lightning Rod </FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:51:38 +0000
From: Johnette Davies <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cotswald cottage
If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about =
5
different buildings all put together in one.
- Johnette
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:38:39 -0700
> From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Grave Repairs
>
> Ken, Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across =
the
> pond with every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it =
was
> before? I love that little cottage. I still remember it from when I =
was
> there in 1952. But I have been back once, but I already told you all =
about
> that adventure. Ruth
>
>
>
> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:
> In a message dated 10/10/2002 7:09:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Always willing to look at a broken or fallen stone, or at least talk =
about it.
>
>
>
> David,
>
> We need more talk of fallen stone. Last week met a quite interesting
> stonemason from UK working on Cotswold stonework at Dearborn. Hope to =
get
> him interested in PTN Masonry Committee.
>
> ][<en
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:03:59 -0700
From: martin skrelunas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cotswald cottage
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The Cottswald Cottage is probably one of the first buildings to spark =
my imagination and interest in architecture. I was probably about 8 =
years old and had never seen anything like it in my life. All of =
Greenfield Village was awsome. Of course I am from Michigan and had =
never seen an old building anyplace. That experience ultimately played =
into the course of life that brought me to the East where I work on =
Moderns! Go Figure!
With Windex in hand,
Marty
Johnette Davies <[log in to unmask]> wrote: If I remember =
correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about 5
different buildings all put together in one.
- Johnette
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:38:39 -0700
> From: Ruth Barton
> Subject: Re: Grave Repairs
>
> Ken, Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across the
> pond with every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it =
was
> before? I love that little cottage. I still remember it from when I =
was
> there in 1952. But I have been back once, but I already told you all =
about
> that adventure. Ruth
>
>
>
> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:
> In a message dated 10/10/2002 7:09:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Always willing to look at a broken or fallen stone, or at least talk =
about it.
>
>
>
> David,
>
> We need more talk of fallen stone. Last week met a quite interesting
> stonemason from UK working on Cotswold stonework at Dearborn. Hope to =
get
> him interested in PTN Masonry Committee.
>
> ][>
--
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[log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 184
New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
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<P>The Cottswald Cottage is probably one of the first buildings to =
spark my imagination and interest in architecture. I was probably about =
8 years old and had never seen anything like it in my life. All of =
Greenfield Village was awsome. Of course I am from Michigan and had =
never seen an old building anyplace. That experience ultimately =
played into the course of life that brought me to the East =
where I work on Moderns! Go Figure!
<P>With Windex in hand,
<P>Marty
<P> <B><I>Johnette Davies <[log in to unmask]></I></B> =
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#1010ff 2px solid">If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is =
actually parts of about 5<BR>different buildings all put together in =
one.<BR><BR>- Johnette<BR><BR>><BR>> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 =
22:38:39 -0700<BR>> From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]><BR>> =
Subject: Re: Grave Repairs<BR>><BR>> Ken, Is that the little stone =
house that was sent from away across the<BR>> pond with every stone =
numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it was<BR>> before? I love =
that little cottage. I still remember it from when I was<BR>> there =
in 1952. But I have been back once, but I already told you all =
about<BR>> that adventure. Ruth<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> At =
2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:<BR>> In a message dated =
10/10/2002 7:09:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,<BR>> [log in to unmask] =
writes:<BR>><BR>> Always willing to look at a broken or fallen =
stone, or at least talk about it.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> =
David,<BR>><BR>> We need more talk of fallen stone. Last week met =
a quite interesting<BR>> stonemason from UK working on Cotswold =
stonework at Dearborn. Hope to get<BR>> him interested in PTN Masonry =
Committee.<BR>><BR>> ][<EN<BR>><BR><BR>--<BR>To terminate =
puerile preservation prattling among pals and the<BR>uncoffee-ed, or to =
change your settings, go to:<BR><HTTP: bullamanka-pinheads.html archives =
maelstrom.stjohns.edu></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Martin =
Skrelunas<br>[log in to unmask]<br>P.O. Box 184<br>New Canaan, Ct =
06840<br>ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767<p><br><hr size=3D1>Do you =
Yahoo!?<br>
<a href=3D"http://faith.yahoo.com">Faith Hill</a> - Exclusive =
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--0-1262515890-1034967839=3D:9452--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:07:12 -0500
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C547E95FA468715C0BE227E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; x-mac-type=3D"54455854"; =
x-mac-creator=3D"4D4F5353"
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It would be a shame if Preservation-L were to die. It is a resource and =
may be
somewhat easier for people who are in need of help with preservation to =
find.
I suppose I should post something there and stir things up a bit.
But its so hard to stay serious for the required amount of discourse.
Maybe we could post a communal "mia culpa" and they'd take us back for a =
little
while. The presense of a bunch of pinheads would certainly breath new =
life into
the list.
-jc
Ruth Barton wrote:
> Ken, I have nothing to do, directly, with historic preservation. I =
own a
> cleaning service. I'm not sure how I dropped into this list, I think =
from
> the preservation list--which someone pointed out is just about DEAD. =
I
> think I got on that one through the Old House list.
>
> This is the BEST list I am on because we talk about EVERYTHING on =
here. I
> am also on several genealogy lists and they are so narrow in focus =
that the
> most active list member could drop dead and it would never be =
mentioned on
> the list. I hate that but have to put up with it because I need the =
info
> that is there.
>
> I love you guys and gals even if you do live in large population =
centers
> that I will most likely never visit. Ruth
>
> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:
> >Sharpshooter,
> >
> >Good questions, and not new. These questions have been brought up =
since when
> >BP originated.
> >
> >The way I see the one-liners or off-topic community building is that =
we have
> >a steady hum that keeps the list active and interspersed we have =
shots of an
> >"on-topic" signal. The jibes and jokes and chatter build context, =
granted, a
> >flow of gibberish that some outside of the list, or more =
self-contained in
> >their lives, may find off putting. I find it cumbersome at times to =
wade
> >through -- then again, I tend to encourage it, I think for good =
reason...
> >though I am open to discussion. I've spent a good deal of time in =
wonder
> >trying to figure out how BP works. Beats me!
> --
> Ruth Barton
> [log in to unmask]
> Westminster, VT
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--------------C547E95FA468715C0BE227E0
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begin:vcard
n:Callan;John
tel;work:651 486-0890
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:John Callan, Architect
adr:;;784 Deerwood Circle;Lino Lakes;MN;55014-5433;USA
version:2.1
email;internet:[log in to unmask]
x-mozilla-cpt:;3
fn:John Callan
end:vcard
--------------C547E95FA468715C0BE227E0--
------------------------------
End of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 18 Oct 2002 to 19 Oct 2002 =
(#2002-281)
*************************************************************************=
*
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:41 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/16/2002 11:39:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> ...self-balancing ecology.
Dan,
That is the term to use. I agree.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/16/2002 11:39:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">...self-balancing ecology. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Dan,<BR>
<BR>
That is the term to use. I agree.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
--part1_1a1.a6e3fcb.2ae71c19_boundary--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:45 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/17/2002 7:07:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> up along the ridge
The view up along the ridge was excellent last Friday.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/17/2002 7:07:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">up along the ridge </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
The view up along the ridge was excellent last Friday.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:46 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: e-help request - a restoration question - from cuyler (not a
Nigerian ban...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/17/2002 7:15:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Is there any hope?
Cuyler,
Did you figure it out yet? If not let me know and I'll ferret out a techie
from the non-BP woods.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/17/2002 7:15:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Is there any hope?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Cuyler,<BR>
<BR>
Did you figure it out yet? If not let me know and I'll ferret out a techie from the non-BP woods.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
--part1_117.198df98f.2ae71c1e_boundary--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:49 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/19/2002 6:53:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> A hardwood would stand up better to the grind of heavy institutional or
> commercial use.
I suppose this means Leland should stick to hardwood on his house?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/2002 6:53:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A hardwood would stand up better to the grind of heavy institutional or commercial use.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I suppose this means Leland should stick to hardwood on his house?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:42 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Can we live up to his example?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:37:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> gravel bank
A good gravel bank to play in is hard to come by. I used to spend a lot of
time in the one up off White Chapel Rd. behind B'dale, picking out stones for
building walls and fireplaces, until they figured it was a risk w/ the
university yuppie kids moving in and then they fenced in the pit. Now they
pallet the rocks and send 'em to Northern NJ for the landscape stone yards.
Used to be if you wanted to hit somebody with a rock it was personal
business.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:37:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">gravel bank </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
A good gravel bank to play in is hard to come by. I used to spend a lot of time in the one up off White Chapel Rd. behind B'dale, picking out stones for building walls and fireplaces, until they figured it was a risk w/ the university yuppie kids moving in and then they fenced in the pit. Now they pallet the rocks and send 'em to Northern NJ for the landscape stone yards. Used to be if you wanted to hit somebody with a rock it was personal business.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:48 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Rob & Rusty Nails
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/19/2002 6:48:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be sure
> that the nails are stainless steel. Less infection.
Geeze Rob... have you been out playing with nails?
So I was told this story this last weekend about a guy (who will remain
annonymous by me) that shot a ring shank nail through his big toe and nailed
himself to a roof deck. The doc cut off the head of the nail and pulled the
nail through with a pair of pliers.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/2002 6:48:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be sure<BR>
that the nails are stainless steel. Less infection.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Geeze Rob... have you been out playing with nails?<BR>
<BR>
So I was told this story this last weekend about a guy (who will remain annonymous by me) that shot a ring shank nail through his big toe and nailed himself to a roof deck. The doc cut off the head of the nail and pulled the nail through with a pair of pliers.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:43 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Grave Repairs
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:37:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across the pond with
> every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it was before?
Ruth,
I missed the part about the numbered stones... it could be the one if there
is a one. What I gather though is that Ford was more precise in public
relations than actual fact and that stones from buildings got sent back
mostly without numbers. As to a Cotswold Cottage it would make more sense to
not number all the stones except for the carved trim & thresholds & chimneys
and to bring over a mason for the rubble walls & the roofing (limestone
shingles) and then to make up a good story.
][<en
--part1_9b.2f69a8d2.2ae71c1b_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:37:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across the pond with every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it was before? </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ruth,<BR>
<BR>
I missed the part about the numbered stones... it could be the one if there is a one. What I gather though is that Ford was more precise in public relations than actual fact and that stones from buildings got sent back mostly without numbers. As to a Cotswold Cottage it would make more sense to not number all the stones except for the carved trim & thresholds & chimneys and to bring over a mason for the rubble walls & the roofing (limestone shingles) and then to make up a good story.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:42 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Can we live up to his example?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/16/2002 2:49:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Always keep a few character defects handy.
Mr. Stone had platinum balls for thinking himself perfect enough to need to
throw in a few defects.
][<en
--part1_f5.23fa1b89.2ae71c1a_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/16/2002 2:49:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Always keep a few character defects handy. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Mr. Stone had platinum balls for thinking himself perfect enough to need to throw in a few defects.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:44 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: So what's the deal on the expansion joints...
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In a message dated 10/17/2002 7:06:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> May I quote you on this?
John,
Yes - quote freely. I'll trade it for my previously acquired rights to use
your infamous board stretcher in a fiction story.
I've found that where people think histo presto costs more money the reality
is that in the long term it costs less because a little bit of good thinking
goes a long way. The secret thing to know, and usually only obtainable
through thinking about a problem, is what NOT to do.
Another worthy adage is cost, quality, time, a customer can only have two of
them but not all three.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/17/2002 7:06:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">May I quote you on this? </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
John,<BR>
<BR>
Yes - quote freely. I'll trade it for my previously acquired rights to use your infamous board stretcher in a fiction story.<BR>
<BR>
I've found that where people think histo presto costs more money the reality is that in the long term it costs less because a little bit of good thinking goes a long way. The secret thing to know, and usually only obtainable through thinking about a problem, is what NOT to do.<BR>
<BR>
Another worthy adage is cost, quality, time, a customer can only have two of them but not all three.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:47 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/18/2002 5:10:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> ...was by a large, blunt thumb, apparently operated by a drunk in a
> hailstorm
It must have been a union caulker.
How would you feel if caulking was the only thing you were allowed to do in
your career?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/18/2002 5:10:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">...was by a large, blunt thumb, apparently operated by a drunk in a hailstorm</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
It must have been a union caulker.<BR>
<BR>
How would you feel if caulking was the only thing you were allowed to do in your career?<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:51 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
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In a message dated 10/19/2002 10:43:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I managed to hit was the dogs bowl and chicken pen which stirred up the
> rooster and the pot bellied pig who live under the house that set the
> dogs to braying at 3 am .
Michael,
Next time call me before you start. I'm good practiced at steering people
into the field before they hit the floor.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/2002 10:43:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I managed to hit was the dogs bowl and chicken pen which stirred up the rooster and the pot bellied pig who live under the house that set the dogs to braying at 3 am .</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Michael,<BR>
<BR>
Next time call me before you start. I'm good practiced at steering people into the field before they hit the floor.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:50 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/19/2002 9:03:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It means that some part of their mind is not on their work.
>
Obviously this is getting to be a more interesting discussion the more
viewpoints that are expressed.
I hate listening to the radio when I am working, particularly if people are
talking on it... but I enjoy instrumental music sometimes. If music is
playing then I cannot hear the guy outside my door talking to people on the
phone and it makes it more difficult for me to coach him.
Actually, I hear most of what goes on in the office if I want to or not.
Sometimes I like to listen to music simply to block out the tenitus... the
ringing in the head gets rough. All day I hear thte fans running on the
computers.
When I am writing fiction I love to listen to music, and the television news
at the same time as the dogs barking. Recently someone told me that when they
read and review a story, meaning concentrate, they listen to Alanis
Morrisette ... but their complaint was that after reading the first paragraph
of my story they had to shut off their music, meaning the music of my story
did not allow any intrusion.
When I did fine work paper collages, with a magnifying glass and pencil tip
razor I always listened to music.
If music is such a distraction to competent function then is it a logical
conclusion that to remove radios from our vehicles would make for better
drivers and fewer accidents?
I do agree that if I go to interview a mechanic and they are blaring their
music super loud that I would think twice. It is a case of fitting the right
people to the job. I do not agree that only great work is done in monkish
silence.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/2002 9:03:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It means that some part of their mind is not on their work. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Obviously this is getting to be a more interesting discussion the more viewpoints that are expressed. <BR>
<BR>
I hate listening to the radio when I am working, particularly if people are talking on it... but I enjoy instrumental music sometimes. If music is playing then I cannot hear the guy outside my door talking to people on the phone and it makes it more difficult for me to coach him. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, I hear most of what goes on in the office if I want to or not. Sometimes I like to listen to music simply to block out the tenitus... the ringing in the head gets rough. All day I hear thte fans running on the computers.<BR>
<BR>
When I am writing fiction I love to listen to music, and the television news at the same time as the dogs barking. Recently someone told me that when they read and review a story, meaning concentrate, they listen to Alanis Morrisette ... but their complaint was that after reading the first paragraph of my story they had to shut off their music, meaning the music of my story did not allow any intrusion.<BR>
<BR>
When I did fine work paper collages, with a magnifying glass and pencil tip razor I always listened to music.<BR>
<BR>
If music is such a distraction to competent function then is it a logical conclusion that to remove radios from our vehicles would make for better drivers and fewer accidents?<BR>
<BR>
I do agree that if I go to interview a mechanic and they are blaring their music super loud that I would think twice. It is a case of fitting the right people to the job. I do not agree that only great work is done in monkish silence.<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:52 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PTNEWS
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In a message dated 10/20/2002 7:09:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter.
John,
I'd give you info on the Edison bldg. moving project and how it relates to
PTN networking but I ain't got my release papers yet.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/20/2002 7:09:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
John,<BR>
<BR>
I'd give you info on the Edison bldg. moving project and how it relates to PTN networking but I ain't got my release papers yet.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:48 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/18/2002 5:17:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Then, again, there are some who find their radios in the dumpster after
> repeated warnings that there is an OSHA noise limit.
Sounds like we need an OSHA respect limit.
As a young site supervisor I threw a few fresh six packs in the dumpster.
They were not brought to the job by us noisy kids. That got me all sorts of
problems.
On a flip side, some people grow up to realize they are not going to get any
further in their dreams and they give up and go to work and hate every minute
of it.
On a recent project a few of the young guys were out-of-sorts missing their
girlfriends, as well as out-of-town, as well as from different cultural and
work backgrounds, and under the gun to produce to deadline, and I suggested
that music may be a good thing. When they did play music it opened up the
communications channels and helped for the workflow to go smoother... it cut
down on everyone trying to figure out what the other guy was doing because
they all had this one thing that they could relate to -- music as
international language -- that cut across spoken language barriers. They
quickly worked out to share and swap music... old guys have music too it
turns out and some of it a bit more nasty than the young guys expected...
then somebody came along and told them it was unprofessional to have music on
the job site. Damned thinking happening on my job once more... I hate it when
thinking on my job is not aligned with my thinking... I like control and
communication. We got it sorted out. New world, new model. The guy yacking on
the cell phone don't bother me 'cause he knows and I know what the end result
is expected to be. Results is what we are looking for. You put people in a
work situation where they can succeed admirably or fail miserably, and if
that situation happens to be one where they are so charged up they are still
working off the site and into the night then you got to look out to take good
care of them. Otherwise you get revolution and sabotague of the histo presto
materials, or they abort the mission and go home early to be with their honey
babes before the job is done.
Titus saw more profit in talking to stones than to the Roman Senate.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/18/2002 5:17:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Then, again, there are some who find their radios in the dumpster after repeated warnings that there is an OSHA noise limit.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Sounds like we need an OSHA respect limit.<BR>
<BR>
As a young site supervisor I threw a few fresh six packs in the dumpster. They were not brought to the job by us noisy kids. That got me all sorts of problems.<BR>
<BR>
On a flip side, some people grow up to realize they are not going to get any further in their dreams and they give up and go to work and hate every minute of it.<BR>
<BR>
On a recent project a few of the young guys were out-of-sorts missing their girlfriends, as well as out-of-town, as well as from different cultural and work backgrounds, and under the gun to produce to deadline, and I suggested that music may be a good thing. When they did play music it opened up the communications channels and helped for the workflow to go smoother... it cut down on everyone trying to figure out what the other guy was doing because they all had this one thing that they could relate to -- music as international language -- that cut across spoken language barriers. They quickly worked out to share and swap music... old guys have music too it turns out and some of it a bit more nasty than the young guys expected... then somebody came along and told them it was unprofessional to have music on the job site. Damned thinking happening on my job once more... I hate it when thinking on my job is not aligned with my thinking... I like control and communication. We got it sorted out. New world, new model. The guy yacking on the cell phone don't bother me 'cause he knows and I know what the end result is expected to be. Results is what we are looking for. You put people in a work situation where they can succeed admirably or fail miserably, and if that situation happens to be one where they are so charged up they are still working off the site and into the night then you got to look out to take good care of them. Otherwise you get revolution and sabotague of the histo presto materials, or they abort the mission and go home early to be with their honey babes before the job is done.<BR>
<BR>
Titus saw more profit in talking to stones than to the Roman Senate.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:46 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/18/2002 4:25:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It is all about production or you will not be doing the work.
>
Leland,
Production has two meanings here, I suppose, 1) where unit quantitiy is the
emphasis and 2) where project completion is the intention. Of course we need
to produce to meet expectations in resolving the needs of the end customer,
the one paying the bills, in order to survive.
When I refer to thinking it is somewhere between the mindless commodity
repetition of setting one brick after another in a straight line as opposed
to building a clean and truly operable firebox. A mechanic thinks all day
long... one mechanic can't get past thinking about a small number of tasks in
a day, the other moves on a scale towards being a master and able to think on
multiple levels about all sorts of stuff. You can lay brick all day and be
thinking out the meaning of the universe or sex, assuming they are not
exclusive. If the mechanics don't think then they can very quickly do damage
in cleaning a sandstone facade.
In my mind production work is on a scale opposite to problem solving. Sorry
to say it but some mechanics are more into problem solving as a product than
they are into reaching a quota of brick laid in a day. If I hire someone to
lay brick I expect them to lay brick and think less. If I hire someone to
think about what may be behind the brick that was laid 150 years ago then I
expect them to think more and move less. I've not yet found a consistent
supply of mechanics that can stop thinking and work more, or stop working and
think more.
For me the task at hand is to figure out who does what and what they will do
when put on a project and how they will do it in interaction with each other.
People refuse to be turned into commodities and will do the damndest things.
I never have two jobs the same and often dream what it would be like to have
an "easy" job of doing something like caulking windows and nothing but
caulking. Every job I do is new, and or with new people, and or with a new
day in a new place. Never twice the same problem. Most often I tell everyone
on a crew that when we get finished we will know what we are doing and never
get to do it again.
It is a different model I have to use than the one that views construction
solely as an allocation of commodity resources of materials and labor. In
fact, a great deal of my time is spent trying to get mechanics and team
members to adjust their perspectives to realize that "production" in the
terms of get-it-done-quickly, is not the primary objective.
The more thinking mechanics you apply to a project the more costly it will be
-- particularly if they are not suited to the task. I have no qualms about
assigning mindless labor where mindless labor is what is needed.
So, this greenhorn site super we have been playing with gets a bug that if
she brings in more work it will save her indebted post-college skin, instead
of just getting done what she has been assigned (unwarranted thinking), and
she contacts the embassy of the Afrikan nation nextdoor to her job, the place
that open-pit barbecues goat in the parlor and had two feet of water & feces
floating in the basement because they did not know their toilet line was
broke... to do some roof repairs. They proceed to call us avery fifteen
minutes all morning for their "small" job. In the mean time, she calls me up
and wants to know if she gets a commission for bringing in work. I'd rather
lay her off than put up with wasting time all morning with this guy calling
about a roof I could not give a rat's ass about while I am concerned, and
dealing with, stuff that I do care about. Then we find out it is maybe so
small it should be her side job, and I got to think through how her
moonlighting will bite us in the ass when she goes and does the work and gets
hurt or whatever and the embassy, a nation not beholden to pay it's bills,
decides she is after all our employee and represented herself as from the
company.
][<en
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/18/2002 4:25:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It is all about production or you will not be doing the work.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Leland,<BR>
<BR>
Production has two meanings here, I suppose, 1) where unit quantitiy is the emphasis and 2) where project completion is the intention. Of course we need to produce to meet expectations in resolving the needs of the end customer, the one paying the bills, in order to survive.<BR>
<BR>
When I refer to thinking it is somewhere between the mindless commodity repetition of setting one brick after another in a straight line as opposed to building a clean and truly operable firebox. A mechanic thinks all day long... one mechanic can't get past thinking about a small number of tasks in a day, the other moves on a scale towards being a master and able to think on multiple levels about all sorts of stuff. You can lay brick all day and be thinking out the meaning of the universe or sex, assuming they are not exclusive. If the mechanics don't think then they can very quickly do damage in cleaning a sandstone facade.<BR>
<BR>
In my mind production work is on a scale opposite to problem solving. Sorry to say it but some mechanics are more into problem solving as a product than they are into reaching a quota of brick laid in a day. If I hire someone to lay brick I expect them to lay brick and think less. If I hire someone to think about what may be behind the brick that was laid 150 years ago then I expect them to think more and move less. I've not yet found a consistent supply of mechanics that can stop thinking and work more, or stop working and think more. <BR>
<BR>
For me the task at hand is to figure out who does what and what they will do when put on a project and how they will do it in interaction with each other. People refuse to be turned into commodities and will do the damndest things. I never have two jobs the same and often dream what it would be like to have an "easy" job of doing something like caulking windows and nothing but caulking. Every job I do is new, and or with new people, and or with a new day in a new place. Never twice the same problem. Most often I tell everyone on a crew that when we get finished we will know what we are doing and never get to do it again.<BR>
<BR>
It is a different model I have to use than the one that views construction solely as an allocation of commodity resources of materials and labor. In fact, a great deal of my time is spent trying to get mechanics and team members to adjust their perspectives to realize that "production" in the terms of get-it-done-quickly, is not the primary objective.<BR>
<BR>
The more thinking mechanics you apply to a project the more costly it will be -- particularly if they are not suited to the task. I have no qualms about assigning mindless labor where mindless labor is what is needed.<BR>
<BR>
So, this greenhorn site super we have been playing with gets a bug that if she brings in more work it will save her indebted post-college skin, instead of just getting done what she has been assigned (unwarranted thinking), and she contacts the embassy of the Afrikan nation nextdoor to her job, the place that open-pit barbecues goat in the parlor and had two feet of water & feces floating in the basement because they did not know their toilet line was broke... to do some roof repairs. They proceed to call us avery fifteen minutes all morning for their "small" job. In the mean time, she calls me up and wants to know if she gets a commission for bringing in work. I'd rather lay her off than put up with wasting time all morning with this guy calling about a roof I could not give a rat's ass about while I am concerned, and dealing with, stuff that I do care about. Then we find out it is maybe so small it should be her side job, and I got to think through how her moonlighting will bite us in the ass when she goes and does the work and gets hurt or whatever and the embassy, a nation not beholden to pay it's bills, decides she is after all our employee and represented herself as from the company.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:24:51 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 18 Oct 2002 to 19 Oct 2002
(#2002-281)
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In a message dated 10/19/2002 8:50:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ilene,
> Did you also meet a Michigan stone mason name of Lanny McCord?
No such luck. Only one fellow working there, Bob Anderson, this time around.
> You were very funny, and I was way too serious.
I suppose my thinking that you were funny is not appropriate? Actually, I
felt very uncomfortable and I thought you were really cool.
> Next time in Michigan, if you want to see Cotswold, visit the Edsel and
> Eleanor Ford Mansion in Grosse Pointe. The stone tile roof is pure
> cotswold, and it is beautiful.
Aaargh... I always find out where I should have gone a day late. If I do get
to go to Michigan again any time soon it will likely be because I got another
project there.
I suppose in line with the discussion re: production that for me production
means I got to be somewhere else doing something else real quick now, if only
I can hold on long enough to really pay attention to what is happening here,
and I have no time to relax and dawdle.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/2002 8:50:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ilene,<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Did you also meet a Michigan stone mason name of Lanny McCord? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
No such luck. Only one fellow working there, Bob Anderson, this time around.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You were very funny, and I was way too serious.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I suppose my thinking that you were funny is not appropriate? Actually, I felt very uncomfortable and I thought you were really cool.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Next time in Michigan, if you want to see Cotswold, visit the Edsel and Eleanor Ford Mansion in Grosse Pointe. The stone tile roof is pure cotswold, and it is beautiful.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Aaargh... I always find out where I should have gone a day late. If I do get to go to Michigan again any time soon it will likely be because I got another project there.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose in line with the discussion re: production that for me production means I got to be somewhere else doing something else real quick now, if only I can hold on long enough to really pay attention to what is happening here, and I have no time to relax and dawdle.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:57:58 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dan Lane <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002
(#2002-283)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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John, The Society for Industrial Archaeology is having their annual =
meeting at Drew University on November 2nd. There will be talks on a =
variety of subjects, but most pertinent seem to be 'The Brownstone =
Quarrying Industry in New Jersey,' and 'American Aqueducts.' I am not a =
PTN member, but some of this stuff seems like it may be of interest. =
Let me know if you want the low-down on either or any of the talks for =
your newsletter as I will be attending. =20
-=3D-Dan Lane
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:13:47 -0400
From: john <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PTNEWS
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The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. I am working
on Vol 1. #2. I am looking for information as shown in the outline. If
you have a contribution please send it to me as a microsoft word file.
First; Front Page =3D Interest article (750 - 1000)
I need an interest article
Recent IPTW
I need reflections on IPTW
Membership Activity Letters from members or others (500 =
words)
News about members
Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)
Receiving awards (35 t0 75)
Preservation Trades News
I need information in this area
Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)
Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
Employment opportunities (50-100)
Position available
Positions sought
Volunteer opportunitie
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:01 AM
To: Recipients of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS digests
Subject: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002
(#2002-283)
There are 11 messages totalling 575 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Stained Glass
2. Winter?
3. Lanai (2)
4. Why is everybody always criticizing...
5. Silkscreened Stained Glass (4)
6. cork floors
7. PTNEWS
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:48:40 -0400
From: "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Stained Glass
Stained Glass is NOT painted with paints or inks, it's "painted" with
glass that is fused in an oven. The painting is permanent; you cannot
scrape off stained glass painting. Poorly adhered, usually poorly
fired, painting scrapes off. The pattern is applied with a brush or
with a stencil, and there is no fixer other than heat. It also cannot
be refired to apply more painting or to repair existing failing
painting. Repairs could consider adding a clear piece with the restored
painting fired onto it, then laminated over the original piece inserted
into the lead cames. This is complicated and should be done in a shop
and under the supervision of a stained glass conservator. Depending on
your area, I might be able to recommend someone. Many of you may know
Art Femenella, New Jersey; he is a good resource for exacting repairs.
We've encountered this similar problem on windows, and there are number
of decisions to determine whether the "painting" should be conserved in
context with the entire project. More later...
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:53:56 -0400
From: "Robert J. Cagnetta" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
We have some 1883 church glass that seems to be silkscreened, with a
wash of color in some parts of the design. We can see the "movement" in
the pattern that may suggest a screening, yet it does not easliy scrape
off. Is there a "fixer" of some sort applied over it to stabilize it?
And are the inks still available?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:16:56 -0500
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Winter?
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Not that anyone keeps track of developments out this way...but it is
snowing. It is sticking. It is covering roofs and the ground. It was
predicted that the UP would get a foot of the stuff last night. Don't
know if it happened or not. Pretty normal up there I suppose. And I am
not in principal opposed to early snow. But this year I would just as
soon this snow wasn't still on the ground in April.
Of course our Canadian bretheren have already laid in the firewood,
stocked the storage locker and settled in with a pile of good books to
read this winter.
-jc
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:13:24 -0400
From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lanai
Spencer:
I noticed your Hawaii address and thought you might have something to =
offer
on this. I am working on a new Preservation Brief on the subject of =
porch
preservation for the National Park Service. Could you help me define =
what a
"lanai" is and help me find a good example of one, perhaps on one of the
older buildings there in Hawaii?
John Leeke
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:46:12 EDT
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Why is everybody always criticizing...
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In a message dated 10/18/02 10:43:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >> > I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last
>> > two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
>>
>> Some would consider that a blessing
>
>
What, and not get to separate the wheat from the chaff yourself?
Might as well have someone else pick your dog. Or your nose. But not =
your
dog's nose.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 10/18/02 10:43:08 AM =
Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> I haven't =
received the daily digest regularly for the last <BR>
> two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong? <BR>
<BR>
Some would consider that a blessing</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" =
LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">What, and not =
get to separate the wheat from the chaff yourself? <BR>
<BR>
Might as well have someone else pick your dog. Or your =
nose. But not your dog's nose.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:59:17 EDT
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
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In a message dated 10/19/02 9:48:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask]
writes:
Rob,
> The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing. I
> believe this was standard in the olden days; worked as reinforcement. =
Could
> this be original? I would say so. It lies ove a unremarkable face =
nailed T&
> G floor, which now people like this old subfloor. Yeah, well, there =
are
> also the jerks who tear ornamental plaster off common brick; onee =
would
> hope it's don less nowadays than it used to be, but most of the real =
stuff
> has probably been "adaptively reused" away by now. These are among the
> wonders of the modern world-- stuff They thought was shit, We think is
> gold.Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard. I tried varnishing
> particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey =
City.
> It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so =
well
> once it got wet. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as =
well.
> Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be =
exposed to
> polite society.
>
> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be =
sure
> that the nails are stainless steel. I should think it would be be =
better
> not to shoot oneself with a regular gun nail than to shoot it with a
> stainless nail, but that's just my personal opinion. Others may =
disagree.
> Less infection.
>
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated =
10/19/02 9:48:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<B>Rob,<BR>
</B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The other thing =
is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing. <B>I believe =
this was standard in the olden days; worked as reinforcement. =
</B>Could<BR>
this be original? <B>I would say so.</B> It lies ove a unremarkable face =
nailed T&G floor, which now people like this old subfloor. <B>Yeah, =
well, there are also the jerks who tear ornamental plaster off common =
brick; onee would hope it's don less nowadays than it used to be, but =
most of the real stuff has probably been "adaptively reused" away by =
now.</B> <B>These are among the wonders of the modern world-- stuff They =
thought was shit, We think is gold.</B>Someday we will be clear coating =
fiberboard. <B>I tried varnishing particleboard for use as kitchen =
countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City. It looked OK initially, =
but I have a feeling it may not have done so well once it got wet. =
</B>Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well. =
<B>Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be =
exposed to polite society.</B><BR>
<BR>
And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be =
sure<BR>
that the nails are stainless steel. <B>I should think it would be be =
better not to shoot oneself with a regular gun nail than to shoot it =
with a stainless nail, but that's just my personal opinion. Others may =
disagree.</B> Less infection.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" =
LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" =
LANG=3D"0"><B>Ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:11:44 -1000
From: "Spencer A. Leineweber" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
John:
There are lots of great examples of lanai on historic buildings. I will
send you back channel a jpg of probably the first one, a c1835 meeting
hall and a great residence from the 1930s.
A lanai is a covered space with open sides usually attached to a house
or building. It is used interchangeably here for porch, [actually no
one says porch] but to spell it correctly in Hawaiian it needs a
horizontal mark over the first "a". The Hawaiian root word is "la"
meaning sun. You can throw away that Latin dictionary.
Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:14:19 EDT
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
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[log in to unmask] expresses:
> Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard. I tried varnishing
> particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey =
City.
> It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so =
well
> once it got wet. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as =
well.
> Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be =
exposed to
> polite society.
In my old building at 90th and Broadway, a 1909 12 story apartment house =
with
serious mahogany finishes throughout (it's not expensive to strip off 50
years of paint and refinish 31 mahogany doors; what's expensive is =
making all
the wood repairs covered up by the 50 years of rent-controlled paint =
jobs), I
was a tenant in 1980, when tenants were just beginning to be aware of =
all the
cool stuff that had been covered up.
Usually people stripped the oak kitchen cabinets first, in part because =
the
paint sort of popped off the original heavy laquer finish, and in part
because you could mess up the kitchen. Then they would do the dining =
room,
because that had full-height panelling. After that things varied, but =
many
people started stripping the exuberant detail in the living room: =
pilasters
on the corners and the chimney breast.
I tried to warn as many as I could but some people didn't believe me =
when I
said it was compo, and would sort of melt under regular stripper, and at =
any
rate would be "natural wood". So there are still at lot of living rooms
there with nice new paint jobs (the apartments now sell for $1million =
plus)
but very, very smudgey detailing.
Christopher Gray
PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use =
a
tung oil finish. Helpful?
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">[log in to unmask] expresses:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Someday we will =
be clear coating fiberboard. <B>I tried varnishing particleboard =
for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City. It =
looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well =
once it got wet. </B>Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as =
well. <B>Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not =
to be exposed to polite society.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
In my old building at 90th and Broadway, a 1909 12 story apartment house =
with serious mahogany finishes throughout (it's not expensive to strip =
off 50 years of paint and refinish 31 mahogany doors; what's expensive =
is making all the wood repairs covered up by the 50 years of =
rent-controlled paint jobs), I was a tenant in 1980, when tenants were =
just beginning to be aware of all the cool stuff that had been covered =
up. <BR>
<BR>
Usually people stripped the oak kitchen cabinets first, in part because =
the paint sort of popped off the original heavy laquer finish, and in =
part because you could mess up the kitchen. Then they would =
do the dining room, because that had full-height panelling. After =
that things varied, but many people started stripping the exuberant =
detail in the living room: pilasters on the corners and the =
chimney breast.<BR>
<BR>
I tried to warn as many as I could but some people didn't believe me =
when I said it was compo, and would sort of melt under regular stripper, =
and at any rate would be "natural wood". So there are still at lot =
of living rooms there with nice new paint jobs (the apartments now sell =
for $1million plus) but very, very smudgey detailing.<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Gray<BR>
<BR>
PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use =
a tung oil finish. Helpful? </FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:17:07 EDT
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
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In a message dated 10/19/02 1:43:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
[log in to unmask]
writes:
> I am looking at cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I =
worry
> about longevity and humidity
Mr. Pyrate, Sir:
I have friends who have a fairly high-style archt-designed 1950's house =
in
nearby Short Hills, with a cork floor in most of it that seems to have =
held
up pretty well. One of the McKim Mead & White cottages in Newport (I'm =
quite
sure it's Kingscote) has cork on the dining room (and maybe other) =
ceiling,
and perhaps din rm walls, too, although one could aregue there's less =
foot
traffic on their walls and ceilings than there will be on your floors. =
I
don't particularly like the SH house, hating 1950's stuff as a child of =
the
early part of decade, but I can see that it's an interesting example and =
is
worthy of TLC, but I don't think my friends the owners are likely to =
provide
it, which will make for an interesting ethical quandary if they ever ask =
me
to provide professional guidance....
I am not terribly familiar with bamboo flooring, but it's my impression =
that
this is a newly-developed product; I first hear about it from some =
designer
type, and am suspicious as I am of everything I've never heard of =
before.
One of the things I DID hear about it is that there was a very bad
installation somewhere that resulted from a too-long or too-short sea =
voyage
over from China or wherever the hell it comes from, and the bamboo =
didn't
have enough time to dry (or acclimate itself, or some such problem) and =
had
to be ripped out and replaced about 5 minutes after it was laid.
Maybe the Chinese have used this stuff over there for 10,000 years, but =
I
wouldn't count on it here, just yet. Then again, try it out: but keep =
us
posted.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated =
10/19/02 1:43:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I am looking at =
cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I worry<BR>
about longevity and humidity </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Mr. Pyrate, Sir:<BR>
<BR>
I have friends who have a fairly high-style archt-designed 1950's house =
in nearby Short Hills, with a cork floor in most of it that seems to =
have held up pretty well. One of the McKim Mead & White =
cottages in Newport (I'm quite sure it's Kingscote) has cork on the =
dining room (and maybe other) ceiling, and perhaps din rm walls, too, =
although one could aregue there's less foot traffic on their walls and =
ceilings than there will be on your floors. I don't particularly =
like the SH house, hating 1950's stuff as a child of the early part of =
decade, but I can see that it's an interesting example and is worthy of =
TLC, but I don't think my friends the owners are likely to provide it, =
which will make for an interesting ethical quandary if they ever ask me =
to provide professional guidance....<BR>
<BR>
I am not terribly familiar with bamboo flooring, but it's my impression =
that this is a newly-developed product; I first hear about it from some =
designer type, and am suspicious as I am of everything I've never heard =
of before. One of the things I DID hear about it is that there was =
a very bad installation somewhere that resulted from a too-long or =
too-short sea voyage over from China or wherever the hell it comes from, =
and the bamboo didn't have enough time to dry (or acclimate itself, or =
some such problem) and had to be ripped out and replaced about 5 minutes =
after it was laid. <BR>
<BR>
Maybe the Chinese have used this stuff over there for 10,000 years, but =
I wouldn't count on it here, just yet. Then again, try it out: but =
keep us posted.</FONT></HTML>
--part1_1be.1181aa57.2ae47753_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:26:25 EDT
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
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In a message dated 10/20/02 5:14:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should =
use a
> tung oil finish. Helpful?
No. Too late.
I had cans of quick-dry varnish around, and didn't have cans of tung =
oil.
And on second thought, I don't think one would want an oil finish on
particleboard--the more impervious the better. And on third thought, I =
think
you're attempting to extend one of my lower extremities.
Ralph
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated =
10/20/02 5:14:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] =
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">PS Anyway, you =
aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use a tung oil =
finish. Helpful? </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
No. Too late.<BR>
<BR>
I had cans of quick-dry varnish around, and didn't have cans of tung =
oil. And on second thought, I don't think one would want an oil =
finish on particleboard--the more impervious the better. And on =
third thought, I think you're attempting to extend one of my lower =
extremities.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_b9.28be4b11.2ae47981_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:56:39 -0400
From: William Gould <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
on 10/19/02 9:53 AM, Robert J. Cagnetta at [log in to unmask] wrote:
> We have some 1883 church glass that seems to be silkscreened, with a =
wash of
> color in some parts of the design. We can see the "movement" in the =
pattern
> that may suggest a screening, yet it does not easliy scrape off. Is =
there a
> "fixer" of some sort applied over it to stabilize it? And are the =
inks
> still available?
>
Are you dealing with transparent, translucent or opaque materials, =
colors,
that has been transferred to the glass?
Bill
> The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing. =
Could
> this be original? It lies ove a unremarkable face nailed T&G floor, =
which
> now people like this old subfloor. Someday we will be clear coating
> fiberboard. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.
>
> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be =
sure
> that the nails are stainless steel. Less infection.
>
> Rob Cagnetta
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:13:47 -0400
From: john <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PTNEWS
--Apple-Mail-2-1024652495
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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=3DUS-ASCII;
format=3Dflowed
The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. I am working
on Vol 1. #2. I am looking for information as shown in the outline. If
you have a contribution please send it to me as a microsoft word file.
First; Front Page =3D Interest article (750 - 1000)
I need an interest article
Recent IPTW
I need reflections on IPTW
Membership Activity Letters from members or others (500 =
words)
News about members
Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)
Receiving awards (35 t0 75)
Preservation Trades News
I need information in this area
Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)
Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
Employment opportunities (50-100)
Position available
Positions sought
Volunteer opportunities
--Apple-Mail-2-1024652495
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Content-Type: text/enriched;
charset=3DUS-ASCII
The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. I am
working on Vol 1. #2. I am looking for information as shown in the
outline. If you have a contribution please send it to me as a
microsoft word file.
First; Front Page =3D Interest article (750 - 1000)
<italic>I need an interest article
</italic>
Recent IPTW
<italic>I need reflections on IPTW
</italic>
Membership Activity Letters from members or others (500 =
words)
<italic>
</italic> News about members
Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)
Receiving awards (35 t0 75)
Preservation Trades News
<italic>I need information in this area
</italic> Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 =
-100)
Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
Employment opportunities (50-100)
Position available
Positions sought
Volunteer opportunities
--Apple-Mail-2-1024652495--
------------------------------
End of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002 =
(#2002-283)
*************************************************************************=
*
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:29:38 -0700
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: e-help request - a restoration question - from cuyler (not a
Nigerian ban...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0096_01C279F0.99044120"
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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}{<en,
Yes, by God! It turned up apparently dragged into an unsuspecting =
folder of another sort, deeply e-buried in foreign territory. I must =
have been using the lap without the external mouse and my sloppy thumb =
work did an dirty deed on the built-in mouse pad. =20
So sorry for the additional intrusion (but it was about restoration).
jcp happy again in bc
Subject: Re: e-help request - a restoration question - from cuyler =
(not a Nigerian ban...
Is there any hope?
Cuyler,
Did you figure it out yet?
][<en=20
------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C279F0.99044120
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>}{<en,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, by God! It turned up =
apparently dragged=20
into an unsuspecting folder of another sort, deeply e-buried in foreign=20
territory. I must have been using the lap without the =
external mouse=20
and my sloppy thumb work did an dirty deed on the built-in mouse =
pad. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So sorry for the additional intrusion =
(but it was=20
about restoration).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>jcp happy again in bc</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: e-help request - a =
restoration question - from cuyler (not a Nigerian ban...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Is there any =
hope?</FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></DIV></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Cuyler,<BR>Did you=20
figure it out yet?<BR>][<en</FONT> =
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C279F0.99044120--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:42:26 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: production
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Re: production...and motivation to work.
Ken, what I know is that our carriage house foundation is not going to
be done before winter. There is a lot of thinking going on, and no one
likes digging the trench. If we could get past the digging task, the
more interesting woodwork and general repairs would be enough to keep
the guys on the job. They hate the digging. Today temperatures are in
the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
219 1/2 N. Main Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
[log in to unmask]
www.quinnevans.com
v 734.663.5888
f 734.663.5044
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:04:25 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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boundary="Boundary_(ID_DGX6BcCOBFBBWHz1PcB9Ig)"
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Michael,
In your case, forget the cork, go with hay. It looks good in a tin
hotel.
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: The "hissen at the silence" listserv ....
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken
Follett
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cork floors
In a message dated 10/19/2002 10:43:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I managed to hit was the dogs bowl and chicken pen which stirred up
the rooster and the pot bellied pig who live under the house that set
the dogs to braying at 3 am .
Michael,
Next time call me before you start. I'm good practiced at steering
people into the field before they hit the floor.
][<en
--Boundary_(ID_DGX6BcCOBFBBWHz1PcB9Ig)
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=635070312-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Michael,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=635070312-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>In your case,
forget the cork, go with hay. It looks good in a tin
hotel.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=635070312-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=635070312-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> The "hissen at
the silence" listserv .... [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:25
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: cork floors<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In
a message dated 10/19/2002 10:43:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">I managed to hit was the dogs bowl and chicken pen
which stirred up the rooster and the pot bellied pig who live under the
house that set the dogs to braying at 3 am
.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Michael,<BR><BR>Next time call me before you start. I'm
good practiced at steering people into the field before they hit the
floor.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:07:10 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/23/2002 7:46:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Today temperatures are in
> the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!
>
Ilene,
Although those of us know know him personally have the highest regard for
Ken, we (or at least I) do not consider the weather to be among the matters
under his jurisdiction.
Besides which, I should think you upper midwesterners would consider 40
degrees to be pretty good weather for this time of year. Evidently your
construction workers are a bunch of candy-assed wimps, no doubt from
listening to too much post-classical music (AKA "hippie shit," or in polite
parlance, "noise") on the radio.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/23/2002 7:46:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Today temperatures are in<BR>
the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ilene,<BR>
<BR>
Although those of us know know him personally have the highest regard for Ken, we (or at least I) do not consider the weather to be among the matters under his jurisdiction. <BR>
<BR>
Besides which, I should think you upper midwesterners would consider 40 degrees to be pretty good weather for this time of year. Evidently your construction workers are a bunch of candy-assed wimps, no doubt from listening to too much post-classical music (AKA "hippie shit," or in polite parlance, "noise") on the radio. <BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:02:42 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music Production
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hello ][<en,
Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were
you actually the music manager or the production assistant?
"I do not agree that only great work is done in monkish silence."
Dang, you used that "only" word. I agree with John and stick with my
beliefs that the majority do better without radios. I would be absolute
in the assertion that loud music is always distracting on a job site. I
think the ability to hear your power and hand tools essential both to
the longevity of the tool and the sensitivity to the materials. You may
be right about the universal language, but I don't get it on the work
site. Dance and Art yes, but a typical work site, no. That being said,
I think most older workers have taken the attitude "It's not worth the
fight. It doesn't bother me that much and it means more to them than
me." I say: Take back the work site! At least have the manners and
sensitivity to ask the job super and other workers before turning it on.
The best case of music with work is those guys in the lab suits
doing the gilding. They have been at the Restoration EIG shows. My
lasting image is of one fellow, his head cocked back like a wooden
gothic statue, opera music softly playing in the background, as he
brushed his mustache and applied another leaf of gold onto that annoying
little white ball they use in golf. It was one of three I was having
made for my step father's 65th birthday. I was surprised that they did
it at all and would not accept any money for the work. The next day
there was a stack of them with the company logo. Now that's music to my
ears.
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: The "hissen at the silence" listserv ....
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken
Follett
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Production...
In a message dated 10/19/2002 9:03:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
It means that some part of their mind is not on their work.
Obviously this is getting to be a more interesting discussion the more
viewpoints that are expressed.
I hate listening to the radio when I am working, particularly if people
are talking on it... but I enjoy instrumental music sometimes. If music
is playing then I cannot hear the guy outside my door talking to people
on the phone and it makes it more difficult for me to coach him.
Actually, I hear most of what goes on in the office if I want to or not.
Sometimes I like to listen to music simply to block out the tenitus...
the ringing in the head gets rough. All day I hear thte fans running on
the computers.
When I am writing fiction I love to listen to music, and the television
news at the same time as the dogs barking. Recently someone told me that
when they read and review a story, meaning concentrate, they listen to
Alanis Morrisette ... but their complaint was that after reading the
first paragraph of my story they had to shut off their music, meaning
the music of my story did not allow any intrusion.
When I did fine work paper collages, with a magnifying glass and pencil
tip razor I always listened to music.
If music is such a distraction to competent function then is it a
logical conclusion that to remove radios from our vehicles would make
for better drivers and fewer accidents?
I do agree that if I go to interview a mechanic and they are blaring
their music super loud that I would think twice. It is a case of fitting
the right people to the job. I do not agree that only great work is done
in monkish silence.
][<en
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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=603363511-23102002>Hello ][<en,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT size=2><FONT
face=Arial> Now Ken, at the site you describe with the
language barrier, were you actually the music manager or the production
assistant?</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000> <SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT
size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman">"</FONT><FONT face=Arial>I do not agree that
only great work is done in monkish silence." </FONT></FONT></SPAN>Dang,
you used that "only" word. I agree with John and stick with my beliefs that
the majority do better without radios. I would be absolute in the
assertion that loud music is always distracting on a job site. I think the
ability to hear your power and hand tools essential both to the longevity of the
tool and the sensitivity to the materials. You may be right about the
universal language, but I don't get it on the work site. Dance and Art
yes, but a typical work site, no. That being said, I think most older
workers have taken the attitude "It's not worth the fight. It doesn't
bother me that much and it means more to them than me." I say: Take
back the work site! At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the
job super and other workers before turning it on.<BR>
</FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#000000>The best case of music with work is those
guys in the lab suits doing the gilding. They have been at the Restoration
EIG shows. My lasting image is of one fellow, his head cocked back like a
wooden gothic statue, opera music softly playing in the background, as he
brushed his mustache and applied another leaf of gold onto that annoying little
white ball they use in golf. It was one of three I was having made for my
step father's 65th birthday. I was surprised that they did it at all and
would not accept any money for the work. The next day there was a stack of
them with the company logo. Now that's music to my
ears.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=603363511-23102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> The "hissen at
the silence" listserv .... [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:25
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Production...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>In a message dated 10/19/2002 9:03:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">It means that some part of their mind is not on their work.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Obviously this is getting to be a more interesting
discussion the more viewpoints that are expressed. <BR><BR>I hate listening to
the radio when I am working, particularly if people are talking on it... but I
enjoy instrumental music sometimes. If music is playing then I cannot hear the
guy outside my door talking to people on the phone and it makes it more
difficult for me to coach him. <BR><BR>Actually, I hear most of what goes on
in the office if I want to or not. Sometimes I like to listen to music simply
to block out the tenitus... the ringing in the head gets rough. All day I hear
thte fans running on the computers.<BR><BR>When I am writing fiction I love to
listen to music, and the television news at the same time as the dogs barking.
Recently someone told me that when they read and review a story, meaning
concentrate, they listen to Alanis Morrisette ... but their complaint was that
after reading the first paragraph of my story they had to shut off their
music, meaning the music of my story did not allow any intrusion.<BR><BR>When
I did fine work paper collages, with a magnifying glass and pencil tip razor I
always listened to music.<BR><BR>If music is such a distraction to competent
function then is it a logical conclusion that to remove radios from our
vehicles would make for better drivers and fewer accidents?<BR><BR>I do agree
that if I go to interview a mechanic and they are blaring their music super
loud that I would think twice. It is a case of fitting the right people to the
job. I do not agree that only great work is done in monkish
silence.<BR><BR>][<en<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:14:39 -0400
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Follett
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:25 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Production...
>=20
>=20
> I never=20
> have two jobs the same and often dream what it would be like=20
> to have an "easy" job of doing something like caulking=20
> windows and nothing but caulking.=20
I fantasize about this too (my mental image is standing at a production
line twisting widgets, and then when the whistle blows at 5, I get to
turn it off, go home, and do what I want to do...no stressing about
problems), but then I realize that it would be enjoyable for about two
minutes and then I would go out of my mind. I would probably go home and
continue twisting widgets endlessly in my dreams.=20
At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they go away.
_______________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "The workman ought often to
Raleigh Historic be thinking, and the thinker
Districts Commission often to be working."
[log in to unmask] -- John Ruskin
919/890-3678=20
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:19:49 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/23/2002 8:15:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they go away.
>
Dan,
Tell us again what you do.
It's my experience that even the solved problems don't go away.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/23/2002 8:15:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they go away.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Dan,<BR>
<BR>
Tell us again what you do. <BR>
<BR>
It's my experience that even the solved problems don't go away.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:32:00 -0700
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: martin skrelunas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Digging
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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No wonder they don't want to dig, 40 is almost too warm if they are doing it by hand!
The best way to dig something unpleasant is to increase the number of diggers. I would try to have at least 6 guys with atleast 4 in the trench and two at the wheelbarrow. You also have to show up with lots of donuts and coffee and make sure there are garbage cans or something for them to sit on rather than the cold wet ground during their coffee break!
The other thing to keep the guys spirit up is to mak sure no one is running power tools during the coffee break!
Marty
"Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Re: production...and motivation to work.
Ken, what I know is that our carriage house foundation is not going to
be done before winter. There is a lot of thinking going on, and no one
likes digging the trench. If we could get past the digging task, the
more interesting woodwork and general repairs would be enough to keep
the guys on the job. They hate the digging. Today temperatures are in
the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!
QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
219 1/2 N. Main Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
[log in to unmask]
www.quinnevans.com
v 734.663.5888
f 734.663.5044
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New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
---------------------------------
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<P>No wonder they don't want to dig, 40 is almost too warm if they are doing it by hand!
<P>The best way to dig something unpleasant is to increase the number of diggers. I would try to have at least 6 guys with atleast 4 in the trench and two at the wheelbarrow. You also have to show up with lots of donuts and coffee and make sure there are garbage cans or something for them to sit on rather than the cold wet ground during their coffee break!
<P>The other thing to keep the guys spirit up is to mak sure no one is running power tools during the coffee break!
<P>Marty
<P> <B><I>"Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Re: production...and motivation to work.<BR><BR>Ken, what I know is that our carriage house foundation is not going to<BR>be done before winter. There is a lot of thinking going on, and no one<BR>likes digging the trench. If we could get past the digging task, the<BR>more interesting woodwork and general repairs would be enough to keep<BR>the guys on the job. They hate the digging. Today temperatures are in<BR>the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!<BR><BR><BR>QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS<BR><BR>Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA<BR><BR>219 1/2 N. Main Street<BR>Ann Arbor, MI 48104<BR>[log in to unmask]<BR>www.quinnevans.com<BR>v 734.663.5888<BR>f 734.663.5044<BR><BR>--<BR>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the<BR>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:<BR><HTTP: bullamanka-pinheads.html archives maelstrom.stjohns.edu></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Martin Skrelunas<br>[log in to unmask]<br>P.O. Box 184<br>New Canaan, Ct 06840<br>ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ">Y! Web Hosting</a> - Let the expert host your web site
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:49:43 EDT
Reply-To: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "The \"hissen at the silence\" listserv ...."
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music Production
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In a message dated 10/23/02 8:08:39 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> "I do not agree that only great work is done in monkish silence."
Does this mean that the only really great work is done in monkish silence?
Or that, in monkish silence, the only product is great work?
Sign me, Used to Get Stoned on Saturday Nights, Get a Half Gallon of Louis
Sherry Neapolitan Ice Cream, Turn on SNL, and Do My Filing For the Week.
Nothing Missing So Far.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/23/02 8:08:39 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">"</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I do not agree that only great work is done in monkish silence." </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>Does this mean that the only really great work is done in monkish silence? Or that, in monkish silence, the only product is great work?
<BR>
<BR>Sign me, Used to Get Stoned on Saturday Nights, Get a Half Gallon of Louis Sherry Neapolitan Ice Cream, Turn on SNL, and Do My Filing For the Week. Nothing Missing So Far. </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:58:46 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ilene R. Tyler
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:42 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: production
>=20
>=20
> Ken, what I know is that our carriage house foundation is not=20
> going to be done before winter. There is a lot of thinking=20
> going on, and no one likes digging the trench. =20
> Today temperatures are in the 40s and=20
> rain is in the forecast. Help!!!
I feel your pain. Excerpted here are four haiku from my Rehabilitation
Haika, previously posted (only this was North Carolina, season of
January):
Shovels slice the earth
Cold rain sludges the footing:
Concrete is delayed.
Shovels scrape footing
Rain scrape rain water freezes:
Footing scraped again.
Icy rain fills hole
Drudgery sludgery gone:
Sunshine dries the soil.
Hole swallows concrete
Low sun brightens smiling face--
Mason happy man.
_________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir., "Help me, Mr. Wizard! I don't=20
Raleigh Historic want to be here anymore!"
Districts Commission - Tooter the Turtle
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:32:41 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music Production
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In a message dated 10/23/2002 9:50:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sign me, Used to Get Stoned on Saturday Nights, Get a Half Gallon of Louis
> Sherry Neapolitan Ice Cream, Turn on SNL, and Do My Filing For the Week.
> Nothing Missing So Far.
Neapolitan? Who woulda guessed you're from the Midwest.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/23/2002 9:50:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sign me, Used to Get Stoned on Saturday Nights, Get a Half Gallon of Louis Sherry Neapolitan Ice Cream, Turn on SNL, and Do My Filing For the Week. Nothing Missing So Far. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Neapolitan? Who woulda guessed you're from the Midwest.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:30:59 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Rob & Rusty Nails
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In a message dated 10/22/2002 5:23:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> So I was told this story this last weekend about a guy (who will remain
> annonymous by me) that shot a ring shank nail through his big toe and
> nailed himself to a roof deck. The doc cut off the head of the nail and
> pulled the nail through with a pair of pliers.
>
Now I bet that really hurt. What hurt worse, the nail going in, or the doctor
pulling it out?
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/22/2002 5:23:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">So I was told this story this last weekend about a guy (who will remain annonymous by me) that shot a ring shank nail through his big toe and nailed himself to a roof deck. The doc cut off the head of the nail and pulled the nail through with a pair of pliers.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Now I bet that really hurt. What hurt worse, the nail going in, or the doctor pulling it out?<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:14:10 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: john <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002
(#2002-283)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Yes I think information on SIA will be of interest to the membership.
Check out the PTN at www.ptn.org.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 06:57 PM, Dan Lane wrote:
> John, The Society for Industrial Archaeology is having their annual
> meeting at Drew University on November 2nd. There will be talks on a
> variety of subjects, but most pertinent seem to be 'The Brownstone
> Quarrying Industry in New Jersey,' and 'American Aqueducts.' I am not
> a PTN member, but some of this stuff seems like it may be of interest.
> Let me know if you want the low-down on either or any of the talks for
> your newsletter as I will be attending.
>
> -=-Dan Lane
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:13:47 -0400
> From: john <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: PTNEWS
>
> --Apple-Mail-2-1024652495
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed
>
> The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. I am working
> on Vol 1. #2. I am looking for information as shown in the outline. If
> you have a contribution please send it to me as a microsoft word file.
>
> First; Front Page = Interest article (750 - 1000)
> I need an interest article
>
> Recent IPTW
> I need reflections on IPTW
>
> Membership Activity Letters from members or others (500
> words)
>
> News about members
>
> Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)
>
> Receiving awards (35 t0 75)
>
> Preservation Trades News
> I need information in this area
> Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)
> Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
> Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
> Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
> Employment opportunities (50-100)
> Position available
> Positions sought
> Volunteer opportunitie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:01 AM
> To: Recipients of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS digests
> Subject: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002
> (#2002-283)
>
>
> There are 11 messages totalling 575 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Stained Glass
> 2. Winter?
> 3. Lanai (2)
> 4. Why is everybody always criticizing...
> 5. Silkscreened Stained Glass (4)
> 6. cork floors
> 7. PTNEWS
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:48:40 -0400
> From: "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Stained Glass
>
> Stained Glass is NOT painted with paints or inks, it's "painted" with
> glass that is fused in an oven. The painting is permanent; you cannot
> scrape off stained glass painting. Poorly adhered, usually poorly
> fired, painting scrapes off. The pattern is applied with a brush or
> with a stencil, and there is no fixer other than heat. It also cannot
> be refired to apply more painting or to repair existing failing
> painting. Repairs could consider adding a clear piece with the restored
> painting fired onto it, then laminated over the original piece inserted
> into the lead cames. This is complicated and should be done in a shop
> and under the supervision of a stained glass conservator. Depending on
> your area, I might be able to recommend someone. Many of you may know
> Art Femenella, New Jersey; he is a good resource for exacting repairs.
> We've encountered this similar problem on windows, and there are number
> of decisions to determine whether the "painting" should be conserved in
> context with the entire project. More later...
>
>
> QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
>
> Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:53:56 -0400
> From: "Robert J. Cagnetta" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
>
> We have some 1883 church glass that seems to be silkscreened, with a
> wash of color in some parts of the design. We can see the "movement" in
> the pattern that may suggest a screening, yet it does not easliy scrape
> off. Is there a "fixer" of some sort applied over it to stabilize it?
> And are the inks still available?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:16:56 -0500
> From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Winter?
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --------------42E990D340512E9B9F9C75B2
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
> x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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>
> Not that anyone keeps track of developments out this way...but it is
> snowing. It is sticking. It is covering roofs and the ground. It was
> predicted that the UP would get a foot of the stuff last night. Don't
> know if it happened or not. Pretty normal up there I suppose. And I am
> not in principal opposed to early snow. But this year I would just as
> soon this snow wasn't still on the ground in April.
>
> Of course our Canadian bretheren have already laid in the firewood,
> stocked the storage locker and settled in with a pile of good books to
> read this winter.
>
> -jc
>
> --------------42E990D340512E9B9F9C75B2
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> Content-Disposition: attachment;
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>
> begin:vcard
> n:Callan;John
> tel;work:651 486-0890
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> org:John Callan, Architect
> adr:;;784 Deerwood Circle;Lino Lakes;MN;55014-5433;USA
> version:2.1
> email;internet:[log in to unmask]
> x-mozilla-cpt:;3
> fn:John Callan
> end:vcard
>
> --------------42E990D340512E9B9F9C75B2--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:13:24 -0400
> From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Lanai
>
> Spencer:
>
> I noticed your Hawaii address and thought you might have something to
> offer
> on this. I am working on a new Preservation Brief on the subject of
> porch
> preservation for the National Park Service. Could you help me define
> what a
> "lanai" is and help me find a good example of one, perhaps on one of the
> older buildings there in Hawaii?
>
> John Leeke
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:46:12 EDT
> From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Why is everybody always criticizing...
>
> --part1_105.1ddc00e0.2ae47014_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 10/18/02 10:43:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>>
>>>>> I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last
>>>> two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
>>>
>>> Some would consider that a blessing
>>
>>
>
> What, and not get to separate the wheat from the chaff yourself?
>
> Might as well have someone else pick your dog. Or your nose. But not
> your
> dog's nose.
>
> Ralph
>
> --part1_105.1ddc00e0.2ae47014_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
> FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/18/02 10:43:08 AM Eastern
> Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> I haven't
> received the daily digest regularly for the last <BR>
> > two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong? <BR>
> <BR>
> Some would consider that a blessing</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3
> FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">What, and not get to separate
> the wheat from the chaff yourself? <BR>
> <BR>
> Might as well have someone else pick your dog. Or your
> nose. But not your dog's nose.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ralph</FONT></HTML>
>
> --part1_105.1ddc00e0.2ae47014_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:59:17 EDT
> From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
>
> --part1_63.13c3d6ac.2ae47325_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 10/19/02 9:48:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask]
> writes:
>
> Rob,
>
>> The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing. I
>> believe this was standard in the olden days; worked as reinforcement.
>> Could
>> this be original? I would say so. It lies ove a unremarkable face
>> nailed T&
>> G floor, which now people like this old subfloor. Yeah, well, there are
>> also the jerks who tear ornamental plaster off common brick; onee would
>> hope it's don less nowadays than it used to be, but most of the real
>> stuff
>> has probably been "adaptively reused" away by now. These are among the
>> wonders of the modern world-- stuff They thought was shit, We think is
>> gold.Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard. I tried varnishing
>> particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey
>> City.
>> It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so
>> well
>> once it got wet. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as
>> well.
>> Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be
>> exposed to
>> polite society.
>>
>> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be
>> sure
>> that the nails are stainless steel. I should think it would be be
>> better
>> not to shoot oneself with a regular gun nail than to shoot it with a
>> stainless nail, but that's just my personal opinion. Others may
>> disagree.
>> Less infection.
>>
>
> Ralph
>
>
>
>
> --part1_63.13c3d6ac.2ae47325_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
> 10/19/02 9:48:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <B>Rob,<BR>
> </B><BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The other thing
> is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing. <B>I believe
> this was standard in the olden days; worked as reinforcement.
> </B>Could<BR>
> this be original? <B>I would say so.</B> It lies ove a unremarkable
> face nailed T&G floor, which now people like this old subfloor.
> <B>Yeah, well, there are also the jerks who tear ornamental plaster off
> common brick; onee would hope it's don less nowadays than it used to
> be, but most of the real stuff has probably been "adaptively reused"
> away by now.</B> <B>These are among the wonders of the modern world--
> stuff They thought was shit, We think is gold.</B>Someday we will be
> clear coating fiberboard. <B>I tried varnishing particleboard for
> use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City. It
> looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well
> once it got wet. </B>Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as
> well. <B>Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least
> not to be exposed to polite society.</B><BR>
> <BR>
> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be
> sure<BR>
> that the nails are stainless steel. <B>I should think it would be be
> better not to shoot oneself with a regular gun nail than to shoot it
> with a stainless nail, but that's just my personal opinion. Others may
> disagree.</B> Less infection.<BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Ralph</FONT><FONT
> COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT></HTML>
> --part1_63.13c3d6ac.2ae47325_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:11:44 -1000
> From: "Spencer A. Leineweber" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Lanai
>
> John:
>
> There are lots of great examples of lanai on historic buildings. I will
> send you back channel a jpg of probably the first one, a c1835 meeting
> hall and a great residence from the 1930s.
>
> A lanai is a covered space with open sides usually attached to a house
> or building. It is used interchangeably here for porch, [actually no
> one says porch] but to spell it correctly in Hawaiian it needs a
> horizontal mark over the first "a". The Hawaiian root word is "la"
> meaning sun. You can throw away that Latin dictionary.
>
> Spencer
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:14:19 EDT
> From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
>
> --part1_c1.28fa286f.2ae476ab_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> [log in to unmask] expresses:
>
>> Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard. I tried varnishing
>> particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey
>> City.
>> It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so
>> well
>> once it got wet. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as
>> well.
>> Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be
>> exposed to
>> polite society.
>
> In my old building at 90th and Broadway, a 1909 12 story apartment
> house with
> serious mahogany finishes throughout (it's not expensive to strip off 50
> years of paint and refinish 31 mahogany doors; what's expensive is
> making all
> the wood repairs covered up by the 50 years of rent-controlled paint
> jobs), I
> was a tenant in 1980, when tenants were just beginning to be aware of
> all the
> cool stuff that had been covered up.
>
> Usually people stripped the oak kitchen cabinets first, in part because
> the
> paint sort of popped off the original heavy laquer finish, and in part
> because you could mess up the kitchen. Then they would do the dining
> room,
> because that had full-height panelling. After that things varied, but
> many
> people started stripping the exuberant detail in the living room:
> pilasters
> on the corners and the chimney breast.
>
> I tried to warn as many as I could but some people didn't believe me
> when I
> said it was compo, and would sort of melt under regular stripper, and
> at any
> rate would be "natural wood". So there are still at lot of living rooms
> there with nice new paint jobs (the apartments now sell for $1million
> plus)
> but very, very smudgey detailing.
>
> Christopher Gray
>
> PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should
> use a
> tung oil finish. Helpful?
>
> --part1_c1.28fa286f.2ae476ab_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
> FACE="Arial" LANG="0">[log in to unmask] expresses:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Someday we will
> be clear coating fiberboard. <B>I tried varnishing particleboard
> for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City. It
> looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well
> once it got wet. </B>Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as
> well. <B>Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least
> not to be exposed to polite society.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"
> style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
> FACE="arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
> In my old building at 90th and Broadway, a 1909 12 story apartment
> house with serious mahogany finishes throughout (it's not expensive to
> strip off 50 years of paint and refinish 31 mahogany doors; what's
> expensive is making all the wood repairs covered up by the 50 years of
> rent-controlled paint jobs), I was a tenant in 1980, when tenants were
> just beginning to be aware of all the cool stuff that had been covered
> up. <BR>
> <BR>
> Usually people stripped the oak kitchen cabinets first, in part because
> the paint sort of popped off the original heavy laquer finish, and in
> part because you could mess up the kitchen. Then they would
> do the dining room, because that had full-height panelling. After
> that things varied, but many people started stripping the exuberant
> detail in the living room: pilasters on the corners and the
> chimney breast.<BR>
> <BR>
> I tried to warn as many as I could but some people didn't believe me
> when I said it was compo, and would sort of melt under regular
> stripper, and at any rate would be "natural wood". So there are
> still at lot of living rooms there with nice new paint jobs (the
> apartments now sell for $1million plus) but very, very smudgey
> detailing.<BR>
> <BR>
> Christopher Gray<BR>
> <BR>
> PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use
> a tung oil finish. Helpful? </FONT></HTML>
>
> --part1_c1.28fa286f.2ae476ab_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:17:07 EDT
> From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: cork floors
>
> --part1_1be.1181aa57.2ae47753_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 10/19/02 1:43:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask]
> writes:
>
>
>> I am looking at cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I
>> worry
>> about longevity and humidity
>
> Mr. Pyrate, Sir:
>
> I have friends who have a fairly high-style archt-designed 1950's house
> in
> nearby Short Hills, with a cork floor in most of it that seems to have
> held
> up pretty well. One of the McKim Mead & White cottages in Newport (I'm
> quite
> sure it's Kingscote) has cork on the dining room (and maybe other)
> ceiling,
> and perhaps din rm walls, too, although one could aregue there's less
> foot
> traffic on their walls and ceilings than there will be on your
> floors. I
> don't particularly like the SH house, hating 1950's stuff as a child of
> the
> early part of decade, but I can see that it's an interesting example
> and is
> worthy of TLC, but I don't think my friends the owners are likely to
> provide
> it, which will make for an interesting ethical quandary if they ever
> ask me
> to provide professional guidance....
>
> I am not terribly familiar with bamboo flooring, but it's my impression
> that
> this is a newly-developed product; I first hear about it from some
> designer
> type, and am suspicious as I am of everything I've never heard of
> before.
> One of the things I DID hear about it is that there was a very bad
> installation somewhere that resulted from a too-long or too-short sea
> voyage
> over from China or wherever the hell it comes from, and the bamboo
> didn't
> have enough time to dry (or acclimate itself, or some such problem) and
> had
> to be ripped out and replaced about 5 minutes after it was laid.
>
> Maybe the Chinese have used this stuff over there for 10,000 years,
> but I
> wouldn't count on it here, just yet. Then again, try it out: but keep
> us
> posted.
>
> --part1_1be.1181aa57.2ae47753_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
> 10/19/02 1:43:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I am looking at
> cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I worry<BR>
> about longevity and humidity </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> <BR>
> Mr. Pyrate, Sir:<BR>
> <BR>
> I have friends who have a fairly high-style archt-designed 1950's house
> in nearby Short Hills, with a cork floor in most of it that seems to
> have held up pretty well. One of the McKim Mead & White
> cottages in Newport (I'm quite sure it's Kingscote) has cork on the
> dining room (and maybe other) ceiling, and perhaps din rm walls, too,
> although one could aregue there's less foot traffic on their walls and
> ceilings than there will be on your floors. I don't particularly
> like the SH house, hating 1950's stuff as a child of the early part of
> decade, but I can see that it's an interesting example and is worthy of
> TLC, but I don't think my friends the owners are likely to provide it,
> which will make for an interesting ethical quandary if they ever ask me
> to provide professional guidance....<BR>
> <BR>
> I am not terribly familiar with bamboo flooring, but it's my impression
> that this is a newly-developed product; I first hear about it from some
> designer type, and am suspicious as I am of everything I've never heard
> of before. One of the things I DID hear about it is that there
> was a very bad installation somewhere that resulted from a too-long or
> too-short sea voyage over from China or wherever the hell it comes
> from, and the bamboo didn't have enough time to dry (or acclimate
> itself, or some such problem) and had to be ripped out and replaced
> about 5 minutes after it was laid. <BR>
> <BR>
> Maybe the Chinese have used this stuff over there for 10,000 years,
> but I wouldn't count on it here, just yet. Then again, try it
> out: but keep us posted.</FONT></HTML>
>
> --part1_1be.1181aa57.2ae47753_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:26:25 EDT
> From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
>
> --part1_b9.28be4b11.2ae47981_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 10/20/02 5:14:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>> PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should
>> use a
>> tung oil finish. Helpful?
>
> No. Too late.
>
> I had cans of quick-dry varnish around, and didn't have cans of tung
> oil.
> And on second thought, I don't think one would want an oil finish on
> particleboard--the more impervious the better. And on third thought, I
> think
> you're attempting to extend one of my lower extremities.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> --part1_b9.28be4b11.2ae47981_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
> 10/20/02 5:14:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">PS Anyway, you
> aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use a tung oil
> finish. Helpful? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"
> style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
> FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
> No. Too late.<BR>
> <BR>
> I had cans of quick-dry varnish around, and didn't have cans of tung
> oil. And on second thought, I don't think one would want an oil
> finish on particleboard--the more impervious the better. And on
> third thought, I think you're attempting to extend one of my lower
> extremities.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ralph<BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT></HTML>
> --part1_b9.28be4b11.2ae47981_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:56:39 -0400
> From: William Gould <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass
>
> on 10/19/02 9:53 AM, Robert J. Cagnetta at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> We have some 1883 church glass that seems to be silkscreened, with a
>> wash of
>> color in some parts of the design. We can see the "movement" in the
>> pattern
>> that may suggest a screening, yet it does not easliy scrape off. Is
>> there a
>> "fixer" of some sort applied over it to stabilize it? And are the inks
>> still available?
>>
> Are you dealing with transparent, translucent or opaque materials,
> colors,
> that has been transferred to the glass?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing.
>> Could
>> this be original? It lies ove a unremarkable face nailed T&G floor,
>> which
>> now people like this old subfloor. Someday we will be clear coating
>> fiberboard. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.
>>
>> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be
>> sure
>> that the nails are stainless steel. Less infection.
>>
>> Rob Cagnetta
>>
>> --
>> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
>> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
>> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:13:47 -0400
> From: john <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: PTNEWS
>
> --Apple-Mail-2-1024652495
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed
>
> The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. I am working
> on Vol 1. #2. I am looking for information as shown in the outline. If
> you have a contribution please send it to me as a microsoft word file.
>
> First; Front Page = Interest article (750 - 1000)
> I need an interest article
>
> Recent IPTW
> I need reflections on IPTW
>
> Membership Activity Letters from members or others (500
> words)
>
> News about members
>
> Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)
>
> Receiving awards (35 t0 75)
>
> Preservation Trades News
> I need information in this area
> Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)
> Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
> Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
> Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
> Employment opportunities (50-100)
> Position available
> Positions sought
> Volunteer opportunities
>
> --Apple-Mail-2-1024652495
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/enriched;
> charset=US-ASCII
>
> The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter. I am
> working on Vol 1. #2. I am looking for information as shown in the
> outline. If you have a contribution please send it to me as a
> microsoft word file.
>
>
> First; Front Page = Interest article (750 - 1000)
>
> <italic>I need an interest article
>
> </italic>
>
> Recent IPTW
>
> <italic>I need reflections on IPTW
>
> </italic>
>
> Membership Activity Letters from members or others (500
> words)
>
> <italic>
>
> </italic> News about members
>
>
> Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)
>
>
> Receiving awards (35 t0 75)
>
>
> Preservation Trades News
>
> <italic>I need information in this area
>
> </italic> Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50
> -100)
>
> Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
>
> Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
>
> Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
>
> Employment opportunities (50-100)
>
> Position available
>
> Positions sought
>
> Volunteer opportunities
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-2-1024652495--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002
> (#2002-283)
> *************************************************************************
> *
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:19:31 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: john <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PTNEWS
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Ken sounds good send it when you can it can always be used latter.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 05:24 PM, Ken Follett wrote:
> In a message dated 10/20/2002 7:09:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
> The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter.=A0
>
>
>
> John,
>
> I'd give you info on the Edison bldg. moving project and how it =
relates=20
> to PTN networking but I ain't got my release papers yet.
>
> ][<en
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Ken sounds good send it when you can it can always be used latter.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 05:24 PM, Ken Follett wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>In a message dated
10/20/2002 7:09:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
</smaller></fontfamily>The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a
newsletter.=A0
John,
I'd give you info on the Edison bldg. moving project and how it
relates to PTN networking but I ain't got my release papers yet.
][<<en</excerpt>=
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Lanai
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Spencer; Years agoin the late 70's
I spent a "summer" rebuilding ancient stone walls that lined stream beds in Haiku Maui..and swooning suspect west coast girls who had gone "native"...
..well didn't everybody?
(dats another story)
However
there was no telling the age of these walls ; and I wonder if there has been any investigation regarding their age?
I also spent some time documenting conditions at the coral stone jail there-with a Spencer whose sur name I cannot remember ..was it ? could it be? ..Dr Livingstone ..I pursume?...best Michael
MDavidson
MS Stone Guild
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:28:23 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Cork Floors
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Ralph
My esteemed dueling partner;
Upon your second sir I am hedging towards the cork; .
....of course I mean floors....
although it has taken a few good corks to really ever get to really see the floor up close
signed Pyrate in a pickle
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:12:32 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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Oh goody, a new doggy. I first read that as "going to look at a dog in New
Hampshire" and thought how good it was you were getting away from the
city. Where is New Hope? Hope you got a nice dog. Ruth
At 8:09 AM -0400 10/18/02, Met History wrote:
In a message dated 10/18/02 7:25:54 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
Once the specifications are made the task is to devise the best
production methods.
The production methods for the caulk on the zig-zag expansion joint at the
Jewish Community Center on 76th and Amsterdam was by a large, blunt thumb,
apparently operated by a drunk in a hailstorm. I examined it myself
yesterday. What's more, although the pointing is charcoal grey like a good
suit, the caulk is "bronze" (aka brown). Best, Christopher (Going to
look at a dog in New Hope tomorrow)
PS Leland, thank you, you are swell. Sign me, Moby
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Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:19:53 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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John, I agree. I never listen to the radio when I work and the work I do
is not that demanding of my attention, I just don't like the distraction.
Ruth
At 11:19 AM -0400 10/19/02, John Leeke wrote:
>Leland writes:
>> The great majority of craftsman I admire,
>> rarely talk while they work. (And what's with the youngest, greenest
>> worker getting to choose the radio station?)
>
>I agree with you about talking. And what's with tradespeople listening to
>the radio at all? As a tradesperson I find that a radio on the worksite
>makes my work more difficult. I have to listen to my work to do my best. The
>creak of the mortise & tenon joint down the hall tells me when to stop
>cranking the jack to keep the plaster from cracking. The subtle
>"sssssssssnick, ssssssssssnick" of my plane along the edge of the board
>tells me if I'm flat across the bevel like I want to be, or rounding over
>like I don't. The quiet "chriiieeeetchit" of the carving chisel resonating
>on the redwood tells me the rim of the Ionic volute is about to snap off so
>I swing around a little more to keep it intact. Hearing the slight "tink" of
>a scafold pin slipping out once gave me the moment's notice I needed to step
>over to a safe perch on the ladder as the planks dropped out from beneath
>me. The results of my work would suffer without these audial clues.
>
>A worker with the boombox blaring rap, or even quite classical, may be able
>to get some good work done, but after working with hundreds of tradespeople
>across the country I know that better work can be done without it. It means
>that some part of their mind is not on their work. I find that those who
>work at the crafts or artisanry level listen to the radio and talk less than
>laborers or tradespeople. The subtlies of the work demand it. As a
>consultant who often is selecting these people for projects I sometimes use
>listening and talking habits as an indicator of their commitment to their
>work and might look closer at the quality of their work, the noisier it is.
>
>John Leeke
>
>--
>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:34:51 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production
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Ilene, It's just like doing the ironing used to be when we did
ironing--I'm old enough to remember doing ironing. The job isn't that
hard--it's getting started. Ruth
At 7:42 AM -0400 10/23/02, Ilene R. Tyler wrote:
>Re: production...and motivation to work.
>
>Ken, what I know is that our carriage house foundation is not going to
>be done before winter. There is a lot of thinking going on, and no one
>likes digging the trench. If we could get past the digging task, the
>more interesting woodwork and general repairs would be enough to keep
>the guys on the job. They hate the digging. Today temperatures are in
>the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!
>
>
>QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS
>
>Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
>
>219 1/2 N. Main Street
>Ann Arbor, MI 48104
>[log in to unmask]
>www.quinnevans.com
>v 734.663.5888
>f 734.663.5044
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[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:51:22 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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We have pine thresholds--the ones that are left. I'm sure my ancestors
used what was available and easy to work. With all the doors here there
were lots of thresholds. Does anybody know where my thresholds would have
gone and why? Ruth
At 9:53 AM -0400 10/19/02, John Leeke wrote:
>Leland writes:
>> You use eastern white pine for thresholds by choice, convenience or
>> because it is a historical replacement match?
>
>In the case I had in mind (my first assignment as a preservation carpenter
>back in the spring of 1971 in Colrain, Mass., for an 18th cen. farm house)
>the Eastern White Pine was an historical match. Given a choice I might
>choose a denser wood that would hold up better to wear and tear. I happened
>to visit the house this past summer and the thresholds showed very little
>wear--not unexpected given the light use. A hardwood would stand up better
>to the grind of heavy institutional or commercial use.
>
>John
>
>--
>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
><http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:22:22 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stained Glass
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Where in New England? It's a big country. I'm in SE Vermont. Ruth
At 5:59 AM -0400 10/21/02, Robert J. Cagnetta wrote:
>I have a friend who is a glass blower, and although I am a novice observer,
>I know that to refire glass once it has cooled is difficult, if not
>impossible. Well, not impossible, but it would have to be slowly reheated,
>and then color applied. To "brush" pigment onto the glass would require it
>to sill be hot, and I cant understand how to brush or screen a color onto
>hot glass. He rolls the color onto the glass, or melts the color bar, onto
>clear glass. And this particular piece definately has color only on one
>side. This is not stained glass as I remember, but I as always looking from
>the pew, never up close. Any contacts to find out more would be
>appreciated. We are in New England.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rob
>
>--
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>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:31:59 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Winter?
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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John, We got about 2" last night. Ruth
At 10:16 AM -0500 10/20/02, John Callan wrote:
>Not that anyone keeps track of developments out this way...but it is
>snowing. It is sticking. It is covering roofs and the ground. It was
>predicted that the UP would get a foot of the stuff last night. Don't
>know if it happened or not. Pretty normal up there I suppose. And I am
>not in principal opposed to early snow. But this year I would just as
>soon this snow wasn't still on the ground in April.
>
>Of course our Canadian bretheren have already laid in the firewood,
>stocked the storage locker and settled in with a pile of good books to
>read this winter.
>
>-jc
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Ruth Barton
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Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:50:22 -0700
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pheasant Hunting
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Way south. We're about 20 miles into VT just off I-91. Coming our way?
Stop off for a visit to a gen-u-wine Vermont farmhouse. Ruth
At 11:12 AM -0400 10/21/02, Ken Follett wrote:
In a message dated 10/17/2002 5:36:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
You just shoot 'em and bring 'em on up heah to Vermont and I'll roast
'em up just fine.
Ruth,
They may be a bit ripe by the time I get to VT. Where are you in relation
to Burlington?
][<en
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 07:50:20 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 1:22:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Years agoin the late 70's
> I spent a "summer" rebuilding ancient stone walls that lined stream beds
> in Haiku Maui..and swooning suspect west coast girls who had gone
> "native"...
> ..well didn't everybody?
> (dats another story)
>
> However
> there was no telling the age of these walls ; and I wonder if there has
> been any investigation regarding their age?
> I also spent some time documenting conditions at the coral stone jail
> there-with a Spencer whose sur name I cannot remember ..was it ? could it
> be? ..Dr Livingstone ..I pursume?...best Michael
>
Pyrate,
If you should decide to go back I would be honored to carry your tools for
you, be your gopher, and possibly help with native or native wanna be
females. I think I could tolerate Hawaii for...the rest of my life. I would
be willing to even learn how to belly dance with those luscious island
beauties. Oh behave.
Sign me,
Hawaii Five-O
--part1_1b9.83f3640.2ae9387c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 1:22:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Years agoin the late 70's<BR>
I spent a "summer" rebuilding ancient stone walls that lined stream beds in Haiku Maui..and swooning suspect west coast girls who had gone "native"...<BR>
..well didn't everybody?<BR>
(dats another story)<BR>
<BR>
However<BR>
there was no telling the age of these walls ; and I wonder if there has been any investigation regarding their age?<BR>
I also spent some time documenting conditions at the coral stone jail there-with a Spencer whose sur name I cannot remember ..was it ? could it be? ..Dr Livingstone ..I pursume?...best Michael<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Pyrate,<BR>
<BR>
If you should decide to go back I would be honored to carry your tools for you, be your gopher, and possibly help with native or native wanna be females. I think I could tolerate Hawaii for...the rest of my life. I would be willing to even learn how to belly dance with those luscious island beauties. Oh behave.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Hawaii Five-O </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 07:15:36 -0500
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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If they are not there any more,they probably went into the dumpster. I have
found that thresholds have often been removed during previous flooring
treatmnets, such as carpeting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ruth Barton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
We have pine thresholds--the ones that are left. I'm sure my ancestors
used what was available and easy to work. With all the doors here there
were lots of thresholds. Does anybody know where my thresholds would have
gone and why? Ruth
At 9:53 AM -0400 10/19/02, John Leeke wrote:
>Leland writes:
>> You use eastern white pine for thresholds by choice, convenience or
>> because it is a historical replacement match?
>
>In the case I had in mind (my first assignment as a preservation carpenter
>back in the spring of 1971 in Colrain, Mass., for an 18th cen. farm house)
>the Eastern White Pine was an historical match. Given a choice I might
>choose a denser wood that would hold up better to wear and tear. I happened
>to visit the house this past summer and the thresholds showed very little
>wear--not unexpected given the light use. A hardwood would stand up better
>to the grind of heavy institutional or commercial use.
>
>John
>
>--
>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
><http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
--
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Stifling discussion? Or....</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If they are not there any more,they probably went =
into the dumpster. I have found that thresholds have often been removed =
during previous flooring treatmnets, such as carpeting.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ruth Barton [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:51 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We have pine thresholds--the ones that are =
left. I'm sure my ancestors</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>used what was available and easy to work. With =
all the doors here there</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>were lots of thresholds. Does anybody know =
where my thresholds would have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>gone and why? Ruth</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>At 9:53 AM -0400 10/19/02, John Leeke wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Leland writes:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>> You use eastern white pine for thresholds =
by choice, convenience or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>> because it is a historical replacement =
match?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>In the case I had in mind (my first assignment =
as a preservation carpenter</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>back in the spring of 1971 in Colrain, Mass., =
for an 18th cen. farm house)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>the Eastern White Pine was an historical match. =
Given a choice I might</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>choose a denser wood that would hold up better =
to wear and tear. I happened</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>to visit the house this past summer and the =
thresholds showed very little</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>wear--not unexpected given the light use. A =
hardwood would stand up better</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>to the grind of heavy institutional or =
commercial use.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>John</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>To terminate puerile preservation prattling =
among pals and the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go =
to:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>><<A =
HREF=3D"http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinhe=
ads.html</A>></FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ruth Barton</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>[log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Westminster, VT</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among =
pals and the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go =
to:</FONT>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:18:51 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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You'll be seeing me selling hotdogs on Wakiki Beach to the tourists - with
poi and pineapple, touting it as a native delicacy. Of course, I'll be
homeless, living on the beach under one of the pavilions next to the police
station, but self suffient so as not to be a burden on society. Those are
my retirement plans.
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Pyrate,
If you should decide to go back I would be honored to carry your tools for
you, be your gopher, and possibly help with native or native wanna be
females. I think I could tolerate Hawaii for...the rest of my life. I would
be willing to even learn how to belly dance with those luscious island
beauties. Oh behave.
Sign me,
Hawaii Five-O
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<DIV><SPAN class=849511612-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>You'll be seeing me selling hotdogs on Wakiki Beach to the tourists -
with poi and pineapple, touting it as a native delicacy. Of course, I'll
be homeless, living on the beach under one of the pavilions next to the police
station, but self suffient so as not to be a burden on society. Those are
my retirement plans.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="High Tower Text" color=#000000
size=4 FAMILY="SERIF">Pyrate,<BR><BR>If you should decide to go back I would
be honored to carry your tools for you, be your gopher, and possibly help with
native or native wanna be females. I think I could tolerate Hawaii for...the
rest of my life. I would be willing to even learn how to belly dance with
those luscious island beauties. Oh behave.<BR><BR>Sign me,<BR>Hawaii Five-O
</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:20:32 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds gone? Long time
passing..."
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Ruth Barton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Does anybody know where my thresholds would have
gone and why? Ruth
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:40:13 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cork Floors
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 1:29:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Upon your second sir I am hedging towards the cork; .
> ....of course I mean floors....
> although it has taken a few good corks to really ever get to really see the
> floor up close
> signed Pyrate in a pickle
>
Mr. Pyrate, Sir:
This month's (quarter's? semiannual issue of?) Old-House Journal (it's
designated Dec 2002, although we're only 75% through goddam October), which
is becoming ever less-worth subscribing to (but probably more worth investing
in), has a article (that could core a apple) on cork and linoleum flooring,
and lists various places to get this stuff.
Sign me,
In Parenthesis Loco
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 1:29:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Upon your second sir I am hedging towards the cork; .<BR>
....of course I mean floors....<BR>
although it has taken a few good corks to really ever get to really see the floor up close<BR>
signed Pyrate in a pickle<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Mr. Pyrate, Sir:<BR>
<BR>
This month's (quarter's? semiannual issue of?) Old-House Journal (it's designated Dec 2002, although we're only 75% through goddam October), which is becoming ever less-worth subscribing to (but probably more worth investing in), has a article (that could core a apple) on cork and linoleum flooring, and lists various places to get this stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
In Parenthesis Loco</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:42:10 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:39:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Where is New Hope? Hope you got a nice dog.
Ruth,
New Hope is in eastern Pennsylvania, just across the Delaware River from Noo
Joisey, which he presumably had to cross to get to meet Fido. But he didn't
come by for a visit, much less bring antique Noo Yawk screwdrivers.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:39:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Where is New Hope? Hope you got a nice dog. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ruth,<BR>
<BR>
New Hope is in eastern Pennsylvania, just across the Delaware River from Noo Joisey, which he presumably had to cross to get to meet Fido. But he didn't come by for a visit, much less bring antique Noo Yawk screwdrivers.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:44:44 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Where have all the threshholds gone?
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:39:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Does anybody know where my thresholds would have
> gone and why? Ruth
>
My guess would be that they were taken out in the course of installing
wall-to-wall carpet.
Or there coulda been some jerk like me there who took them out and never
bothered to reinstall them, but in that case, you'd probably find them up in
the tops of your closets (that's where most of ours are, awaiting
reinstallation).
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:39:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does anybody know where my thresholds would have<BR>
gone and why? Ruth<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
My guess would be that they were taken out in the course of installing wall-to-wall carpet. <BR>
<BR>
Or there coulda been some jerk like me there who took them out and never bothered to reinstall them, but in that case, you'd probably find them up in the tops of your closets (that's where most of ours are, awaiting reinstallation).<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:51:39 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
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I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians that, in addition to the
beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are reported to be giant
flying cockroaches in Hawaii.
I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have
been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance
that it's true, I ain't goin'.
But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach bunnies.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians that, in addition to the beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are reported to be giant flying cockroaches in Hawaii. <BR>
<BR>
I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance that it's true, I ain't goin'.<BR>
<BR>
But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach bunnies.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:53:10 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds gone? Long time
> passing..."
>
> - Pam
>
Pam,
I'm sorry to see that you had the same idea I did, only I guess you had it
first. Evidently small minds think alike, too.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds gone? Long time<BR>
passing..."<BR>
<BR>
- Pam<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Pam,<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry to see that you had the same idea I did, only I guess you had it first. Evidently small minds think alike, too.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:03:26 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Production" is the right heading for this new topic...
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<<<Oh goody, a new doggy.... Where is New Hope?=A0 Hope you got a nice dog.=
=A0=20
Ruth>>>
1. It's a poodle, regular size, black so it looks like a 1972 Palestinian=20
terrorist.
2. No dogs are "nice" - some are tolerable. The vote was 2-1 - I lost.
3. New Hope is the town between "Now, we're just going to look!" and "Gosh,=
=20
I forgot to ask if it was paper trained - and why is it scratching its ears=20
so much?"
4. It's intelligent - intelligent enough to outwait you while you box it in=
=20
on the paper-training area. =20
Sign me, Entire House Smelled Like a Kennel After Only 8 Hours=20
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"=
Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><<<Oh goody, a new doggy.... Wher=
e is New Hope?=A0 Hope you got a nice dog.=A0 Ruth>>>
<BR>
<BR>1. It's a poodle, regular size, black so it looks like a 1972 Pale=
stinian terrorist.
<BR>2. No dogs are "nice" - some are tolerable. The vote was 2-1=
- I lost.
<BR>3. New Hope is the town between "Now, we're just going to look!" a=
nd "Gosh, I forgot to ask if it was paper trained - and why is it scratching=
its ears so much?"
<BR>4. It's intelligent - intelligent enough to outwait you while you=20=
box it in on the paper-training area.
<BR>
<BR>Sign me, Entire House Smelled Like a Kennel After Only 8 Hours=20
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:08:23 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Weather forecast for day of Christ's return....
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Cross posted from NY-Hist-L (an excellent listserv from the point of view of=
=20
low static):
Subj: Re: Cemetery History Mystery =20
Date: 10/24/02 9:00:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time =20
From:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask] (Daniel H. Weiskotten)
Reply-to: <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
.GOV</A> (A LISTSERV list for discussions=20
pertaining to New York State=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 history.)
Harold Miller asked:
>... why the earliest graves are the farthest from the 1787
>road and the nearest house across the road, and why all of the stones face
>east, rather than north towards the road. In a deep, narrow lot, would one
>not assume the stones would face the entrance on the road?
I have been working on a cemetery resrearch project for a number of years
that looks at these very questions and more.=A0 Cemeteries are often looked
at as just sources for genealogical information, but they are so full of
patterns reflecting human behavior that it makes your head spin.
In a study of 60 cemeteries in western Madison County, NY, I noted
orientation of the grave and placement of the headstones among the general
genealogical, landscape and demographic data that I collected.=A0 I ran into
many situations, that, like that encountered by Harold, made me ask "what
was going on here!?!?"
Most of this data looks at pre-1860 cemeteries, as after that date, with
the kicking in of the "Rural Cemetery Movement" and the rise of the
man-made landscape, these patterns almost entirely disapeared.=A0 In many ol=
d
cemeteres that are still in use today, you can see the formal pattern of
the old part contrasting the sweeping avenues of the later designs.
Here's a clip from the draft of what I have been writing:
"Of the over 60 cemeteries in this study, I was able to determine
orientation of the graves in 47 cemeteries (some the cemeteries are reports
only and no field data is available).=A0 These 47 cemeteries ranged in
earliest possible founding date from 1795 to 1853.=A0 I found that there was
a strict adherence to the rule of orienting the rows to the north and
south.=A0 As the rows were oriented north to south the burials were obviousl=
y
perpendicular to this and thus met the oftcited Christian practice of
burial with the head to the west and feet to the east so the dead could
face the rising sun on the day of the resurrection (my priomary question in
this reguard is, what happens if the resurrection occurs on a cloudy day or
in the late afternoon?). Even in the earliest cemeteries (settlement of the
are began in 1793) have the rows of graves oriented to within a few degrees
of north (with the bodies lying with the head to west and the feet to the
east).=A0 I have looked at changes in local magnetic variation hoping to
identify when the cemetery was laid out, but this came to naught.
"This general N-S and E-W bearing was perhaps easy to achieve because the
Great Lot divisions of the historic landscape were only 3 degrees off from
north, but that does not explain the strict adherence to the N-S
orientation of the rows (E-W of the bodies) found in several cemeteries in
which the major landscape feature was not a Great Lot line but a road that
went off at an angle, or where the cemeteries were situated upon landscape
features such as ridges and gravel knolls where following the contours of
the land would have been far more efficient.=A0 One cemetery, still in use,
has graves in places where it is difficult to stand and others enclose
entire gravel knobs with graves [figuratively] cascading down the steep
sides.=A0 Only one cemetery was noticeably anomalous to this pattern with a
row bearing of North 20 degrees West; this being a cemetery situated at an
intersection of two roads which were angled to the Great Lot lines.=A0 It
still fit the perception of placing the bodies with the heads to the west
and feet to the east, so I presume that much of a deviation was acceptable."
I also noted that many stones faced away from the cemetery entrance and
visitors to the grave would have had to walk around the grave to see the
name on the stone.=A0 I presume that this was so that people would not have
to step on the grave to read the name, as we have to do today.=A0 I also
noted that the markings on the footstone also faced away from the
grave.=A0 This explanation is not fully acceptable as you would have to stan=
d
on another grave in order to read the stone.=A0 Perhaps it was so that you
did not have to stand on your loved one's grave, and who cares about the
other people?=A0 Strict adherence to this rule was also seen in several
cemeteries where the road and entrance was on the east but not a single
stone could be read unless you walked around to the back side of the
cemetery.=A0 I did considerable research on early roads trying to find if th=
e
entrance to the cemetery had changed, but in all cases the present road
alignment pre-dated the establishment of the cemetery.
Exceptions to these patterns do exist, and I have found that it often
indicates some anomaly in how the cemetery developed.=A0 I found that stones
that were out of alignment or facing a different way were usually graves
that had been removed from abandoned cemeteries and were late additions to
the cemetery.=A0 Stones that are very close together indicates
in-filling.=A0 There are many ways to tell that a cemetery had been
re-arranged at a later date.=A0 I know of one cemetery in Virgil, Cortland
Co., that has had all its stones turned around and lined up, first so as to
make it easy to mow, but also so you could read them all easily (a sad
thing as it destroyed the entire historic pattern of the cemetery.)=A0 Many
old New England graveyards also suffered this sad fate in cleanup and
restoration efforts.
Reasons for the location of cemeteries is a tough question to address.=A0 I
found a number of factors such as land form, close to a road, in sight of a
house, has a nice view, central to the neighborhood, near a church, etc.
that could help explain why a cemetery was in a particular
location.=A0 Having a good view was a particularly obvious factor, although
finding a 'bad' view in Cazenovia is tough.=A0 Soiul type may have played a
role, although well drained soil of any sort was chosen.
There were some few observances which made little sense, and there are
several cemeteries where the earliest graves are to the back of the
cemetery.=A0 On the contrary there were many with oldest graves in the
front.=A0 Many cemeteries seemed to be organized or surveyed into plots from
the beginning and had a nice even dispersal of dates across the cemetery,
with family plots being the most prominent pattern.=A0 Others were clusters
on high ground with later burials filling in between.
Every time I saw a pattern I tried to figure out why it formed and in what
other cemeteries that shared pattern was found.=A0 Some I think I have
explained, others I am totally clueless about.=A0 Then also, as I traveled
the state, I noted that other cemeteries had patterns that I had not seen
in the Cazenovia area, and all I can conclude is that they indicated
different formation processes and evolution.=A0 Being down in Virginia now i=
s
a whole 'nother world, as few cemeteries are even marked, let alone have
interesting grave stones.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyccazen/Cemeteries/
http://users.erols.com/weiskotten/CFNcemeteries.html
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Dan W.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"=
Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">Cross posted from NY-Hist-L (an excellent listse=
rv from the point of view of low static):
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Subj: <B>Re: Cemetery History Mystery</B> =20
<BR>Date: 10/24/02 9:00:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time =20
<BR>From:=A0 =A0 [log in to unmask] (Daniel H. Weiskotten)
<BR>Reply-to: <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
YSED.GOV</A> (A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 history.)
<BR>
<BR>Harold Miller asked:
<BR>
<BR>>... why the earliest graves are the farthest from the 1787
<BR>>road and the nearest house across the road, and why all of the stone=
s face
<BR>>east, rather than north towards the road. In a deep, narrow lot, wou=
ld one
<BR>>not assume the stones would face the entrance on the road?
<BR>
<BR>I have been working on a cemetery resrearch project for a number of year=
s
<BR>that looks at these very questions and more.=A0 Cemeteries are often loo=
ked
<BR>at as just sources for genealogical information, but they are so full of
<BR>patterns reflecting human behavior that it makes your head spin.
<BR>
<BR>In a study of 60 cemeteries in western Madison County, NY, I noted
<BR>orientation of the grave and placement of the headstones among the gener=
al
<BR>genealogical, landscape and demographic data that I collected.=A0 I ran=20=
into
<BR>many situations, that, like that encountered by Harold, made me ask "wha=
t
<BR>was going on here!?!?"
<BR>
<BR>Most of this data looks at pre-1860 cemeteries, as after that date, with
<BR>the kicking in of the "Rural Cemetery Movement" and the rise of the
<BR>man-made landscape, these patterns almost entirely disapeared.=A0 In man=
y old
<BR>cemeteres that are still in use today, you can see the formal pattern of
<BR>the old part contrasting the sweeping avenues of the later designs.
<BR>
<BR>Here's a clip from the draft of what I have been writing:
<BR>
<BR>"Of the over 60 cemeteries in this study, I was able to determine
<BR>orientation of the graves in 47 cemeteries (some the cemeteries are repo=
rts
<BR>only and no field data is available).=A0 These 47 cemeteries ranged in
<BR>earliest possible founding date from 1795 to 1853.=A0 I found that there=
was
<BR>a strict adherence to the rule of orienting the rows to the north and
<BR>south.=A0 As the rows were oriented north to south the burials were obvi=
ously
<BR>perpendicular to this and thus met the oftcited Christian practice of
<BR>burial with the head to the west and feet to the east so the dead could
<BR>face the rising sun on the day of the resurrection (my priomary question=
in
<BR>this reguard is, what happens if the resurrection occurs on a cloudy day=
or
<BR>in the late afternoon?). Even in the earliest cemeteries (settlement of=20=
the
<BR>are began in 1793) have the rows of graves oriented to within a few degr=
ees
<BR>of north (with the bodies lying with the head to west and the feet to th=
e
<BR>east).=A0 I have looked at changes in local magnetic variation hoping to
<BR>identify when the cemetery was laid out, but this came to naught.
<BR>
<BR>"This general N-S and E-W bearing was perhaps easy to achieve because th=
e
<BR>Great Lot divisions of the historic landscape were only 3 degrees off fr=
om
<BR>north, but that does not explain the strict adherence to the N-S
<BR>orientation of the rows (E-W of the bodies) found in several cemeteries=20=
in
<BR>which the major landscape feature was not a Great Lot line but a road th=
at
<BR>went off at an angle, or where the cemeteries were situated upon landsca=
pe
<BR>features such as ridges and gravel knolls where following the contours o=
f
<BR>the land would have been far more efficient.=A0 One cemetery, still in u=
se,
<BR>has graves in places where it is difficult to stand and others enclose
<BR>entire gravel knobs with graves [figuratively] cascading down the steep
<BR>sides.=A0 Only one cemetery was noticeably anomalous to this pattern wit=
h a
<BR>row bearing of North 20 degrees West; this being a cemetery situated at=20=
an
<BR>intersection of two roads which were angled to the Great Lot lines.=A0 I=
t
<BR>still fit the perception of placing the bodies with the heads to the wes=
t
<BR>and feet to the east, so I presume that much of a deviation was acceptab=
le."
<BR>
<BR>I also noted that many stones faced away from the cemetery entrance and
<BR>visitors to the grave would have had to walk around the grave to see the
<BR>name on the stone.=A0 I presume that this was so that people would not h=
ave
<BR>to step on the grave to read the name, as we have to do today.=A0 I also
<BR>noted that the markings on the footstone also faced away from the
<BR>grave.=A0 This explanation is not fully acceptable as you would have to=20=
stand
<BR>on another grave in order to read the stone.=A0 Perhaps it was so that y=
ou
<BR>did not have to stand on your loved one's grave, and who cares about the
<BR>other people?=A0 Strict adherence to this rule was also seen in several
<BR>cemeteries where the road and entrance was on the east but not a single
<BR>stone could be read unless you walked around to the back side of the
<BR>cemetery.=A0 I did considerable research on early roads trying to find i=
f the
<BR>entrance to the cemetery had changed, but in all cases the present road
<BR>alignment pre-dated the establishment of the cemetery.
<BR>
<BR>Exceptions to these patterns do exist, and I have found that it often
<BR>indicates some anomaly in how the cemetery developed.=A0 I found that st=
ones
<BR>that were out of alignment or facing a different way were usually graves
<BR>that had been removed from abandoned cemeteries and were late additions=20=
to
<BR>the cemetery.=A0 Stones that are very close together indicates
<BR>in-filling.=A0 There are many ways to tell that a cemetery had been
<BR>re-arranged at a later date.=A0 I know of one cemetery in Virgil, Cortla=
nd
<BR>Co., that has had all its stones turned around and lined up, first so as=
to
<BR>make it easy to mow, but also so you could read them all easily (a sad
<BR>thing as it destroyed the entire historic pattern of the cemetery.)=A0 M=
any
<BR>old New England graveyards also suffered this sad fate in cleanup and
<BR>restoration efforts.
<BR>
<BR>Reasons for the location of cemeteries is a tough question to address.=
=A0 I
<BR>found a number of factors such as land form, close to a road, in sight o=
f a
<BR>house, has a nice view, central to the neighborhood, near a church, etc.
<BR>that could help explain why a cemetery was in a particular
<BR>location.=A0 Having a good view was a particularly obvious factor, altho=
ugh
<BR>finding a 'bad' view in Cazenovia is tough.=A0 Soiul type may have playe=
d a
<BR>role, although well drained soil of any sort was chosen.
<BR>
<BR>There were some few observances which made little sense, and there are
<BR>several cemeteries where the earliest graves are to the back of the
<BR>cemetery.=A0 On the contrary there were many with oldest graves in the
<BR>front.=A0 Many cemeteries seemed to be organized or surveyed into plots=20=
from
<BR>the beginning and had a nice even dispersal of dates across the cemetery=
,
<BR>with family plots being the most prominent pattern.=A0 Others were clust=
ers
<BR>on high ground with later burials filling in between.
<BR>
<BR>Every time I saw a pattern I tried to figure out why it formed and in wh=
at
<BR>other cemeteries that shared pattern was found.=A0 Some I think I have
<BR>explained, others I am totally clueless about.=A0 Then also, as I travel=
ed
<BR>the state, I noted that other cemeteries had patterns that I had not see=
n
<BR>in the Cazenovia area, and all I can conclude is that they indicated
<BR>different formation processes and evolution.=A0 Being down in Virginia n=
ow is
<BR>a whole 'nother world, as few cemeteries are even marked, let alone have
<BR>interesting grave stones.
<BR>
<BR>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyccazen/Cemeteries/
<BR>http://users.erols.com/weiskotten/CFNcemeteries.html
<BR>
<BR>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Dan W.
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:10:34 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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I'm just more daring to speak what I think than to give real answers (of
course, not really being in the business has something to do with that,
too). That's why I figure I'm here, as part of the comic relief.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds gone? Long time
passing..."
- Pam
Pam,
I'm sorry to see that you had the same idea I did, only I guess you had it
first. Evidently small minds think alike, too.
Ralph
--Boundary_(ID_sfUUvYftwyXnlp79K3Cynw)
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=397545512-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I'm just more daring to speak what I think than to give real answers (of
course, not really being in the business has something to do with that,
too). That's why I figure I'm here, as part of the comic
relief.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:53
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Stifling discussion? Or....<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a
message dated 10/24/2002 8:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds
gone? Long time<BR>passing..."<BR><BR>-
Pam<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Pam,<BR><BR>I'm sorry to see that you had the same
idea I did, only I guess you had it first. Evidently small minds think
alike, too.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:45:09 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:50:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have
> been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off
> chance that it's true, I ain't goin'.
>
Hell, we have flying 747s here. After a good rain you better look out, it
resembles JFK or O'Hare.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:50:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance that it's true, I ain't goin'.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Hell, we have flying 747s here. After a good rain you better look out, it resembles JFK or O'Hare.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:39:47 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
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I didn't see no stinking cuccarachas when I was there, even crawling through
the bunker at Diamond Head or at Waiameya (sp?) Falls. Maybe they're on the
Big Island.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians that, in addition to the
beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are reported to be giant
flying cockroaches in Hawaii.
I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have
been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance
that it's true, I ain't goin'.
But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach bunnies.
Ralph
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<DIV><SPAN class=531173814-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I didn't see no stinking cuccarachas when I was there, even crawling
through the bunker at Diamond Head or at Waiameya (sp?) Falls. Maybe
they're on the Big Island.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:52
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Hawaiian Eye<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I feel I should warn all you would-be
Hawaiians that, in addition to the beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi,
there are reported to be giant flying cockroaches in Hawaii. <BR><BR>I don't
know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have been told to
me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance that it's
true, I ain't goin'.<BR><BR>But you could send me a postcard. Of the
beach bunnies.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:51:56 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Production
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Well, if all my respondents would come to Ann Arbor and dig, I'd make
soup, steak, and apple pie. Yesterday's distraction was USA Today. A
reporter and photographer were in town to interview, Marshall McLennan,
our academic expert on vernacular construction, and they thought they
might as well include our contractor, Steve Steir, who is the hands-on
Michigan expert in barn restoration. They went on a tour of local but
interesting barns. The article should be published some time next week.
My husband has joined the guys in the trenches. I, however, remain an
observer and photographer.
Yes, Ralph, 40 degrees is still considered mild weather to them, and
they are still promising to finish before real winter.
Martin, you are right-on about working conditions. We started in
September, when there was still too much 80-degree weather that made
them look for the distractions - school, conferences, barn raisings -
and the pattern has been established. I've offered food, but not
brought it to the site, probably big mistake, I think I'll try food
next. Thanks for the advice.
Dan, the haiku may be just right for calming us in the face of adverse
conditions. There should probably be one about waiting for the City
inspector's approval before we can order and pour the concrete.
Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA
219 1/2 N. Main Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
[log in to unmask]
www.quinnevans.com
v 734.663.5888
f 734.663.5044
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:07:10 EDT
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:32:00 -0700
From: martin skrelunas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Digging
--0-1532984390-1035379920=3D:9896
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No wonder they don't want to dig, 40 is almost too warm if they are
doing it by hand! The best way to dig something unpleasant is to
increase the number of diggers. I would try to have at least 6 guys
with atleast 4 in the trench and two at the wheelbarrow. You also have
to show up with lots of donuts and coffee and make sure there are
garbage cans or something for them to sit on rather than the cold wet
ground during their coffee break! The other thing to keep the guys
spirit up is to mak sure no one is running power tools during the coffee
break! Marty "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Re:
production...and motivation to work.
Martin Skrelunas
[log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 184
New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:58:46 -0400
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ilene R. Tyler
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:42 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: production
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Ken, what I know is that our carriage house foundation is not=3D20 =20
>going to be done before winter. There is a lot of thinking=3D20 going =
>on, and no one likes digging the trench. =3D20
> Today temperatures are in the 40s and=3D20
> rain is in the forecast. Help!!!
I feel your pain. Excerpted here are four haiku from my Rehabilitation
Haika, previously posted (only this was North Carolina, season of
January):
Shovels slice the earth
Cold rain sludges the footing:
Concrete is delayed.
Shovels scrape footing
Rain scrape rain water freezes:
Footing scraped again.
Icy rain fills hole
Drudgery sludgery gone:
Sunshine dries the soil.
Hole swallows concrete
Low sun brightens smiling face--
Mason happy man.
_________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir., "Help me, Mr. Wizard! I don't=3D20
Raleigh Historic want to be here anymore!"
Districts Commission - Tooter the Turtle
[log in to unmask] =3D20
919/890-3678
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:15:39 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "Production" is the right heading for this new topic...
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My sympathies to you. We used to have a toy poodle that loved to visit
folks whenever they would try to find some privacy in the privvie. Her name
was Gigi, but we nicknamed her Digadoor.
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Met History [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: "Production" is the right heading for this new topic...
<<<Oh goody, a new doggy.... Where is New Hope? Hope you got a nice dog.
Ruth>>>
1. It's a poodle, regular size, black so it looks like a 1972 Palestinian
terrorist.
2. No dogs are "nice" - some are tolerable. The vote was 2-1 - I lost.
3. New Hope is the town between "Now, we're just going to look!" and "Gosh,
I forgot to ask if it was paper trained - and why is it scratching its ears
so much?"
4. It's intelligent - intelligent enough to outwait you while you box it in
on the paper-training area.
Sign me, Entire House Smelled Like a Kennel After Only 8 Hours
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<DIV><SPAN class=298181415-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>My sympathies to you. We used to have a toy poodle that loved to
visit folks whenever they would try to find some privacy in the privvie.
Her name was Gigi, but we nicknamed her Digadoor.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=298181415-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=298181415-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>- Pam</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Met History
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:03
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
"Production" is the right heading for this new
topic...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face="Times New Roman" size=2 FAMILY="SERIF"><<<Oh goody, a new
doggy.... Where is New Hope? Hope you got a nice dog.
Ruth>>> <BR><BR>1. It's a poodle, regular size, black so it
looks like a 1972 Palestinian terrorist. <BR>2. No dogs are "nice" -
some are tolerable. The vote was 2-1 - I lost. <BR>3. New Hope is
the town between "Now, we're just going to look!" and "Gosh, I forgot to ask
if it was paper trained - and why is it scratching its ears so much?" <BR>4.
It's intelligent - intelligent enough to outwait you while you box it in
on the paper-training area. <BR><BR>Sign me, Entire House Smelled
Like a Kennel After Only 8 Hours
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:17:04 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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Ralph -
I think my first response to you wasn't worded properly, and was pretty
snide. Sorry about that - the send button was hit before the copy editor
finished her coffee.
- Pam "The Uncoffeed"
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds gone? Long time
passing..."
- Pam
Pam,
I'm sorry to see that you had the same idea I did, only I guess you had it
first. Evidently small minds think alike, too.
Ralph
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<DIV><SPAN class=065401515-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Ralph -</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=065401515-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=065401515-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I think my first response to you wasn't worded properly, and was pretty
snide. Sorry about that - the send button was hit before the copy editor
finished her coffee.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=065401515-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=065401515-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>- Pam "The Uncoffeed"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:53
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Stifling discussion? Or....<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a
message dated 10/24/2002 8:21:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Wasn't that a 60's song? "Where have all my thresholds
gone? Long time<BR>passing..."<BR><BR>-
Pam<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Pam,<BR><BR>I'm sorry to see that you had the same
idea I did, only I guess you had it first. Evidently small minds think
alike, too.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:54:16 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bruce Marcham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
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Kinda sounds like a rumor the Florida Tourist Bureau would put out there (I
hear they got bigguns down there). Sounds plausible though, same warm
climate as FL...
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
I didn't see no stinking cuccarachas when I was there, even crawling through
the bunker at Diamond Head or at Waiameya (sp?) Falls. Maybe they're on the
Big Island.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians that, in addition to the
beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are reported to be giant
flying cockroaches in Hawaii.
I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have
been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance
that it's true, I ain't goin'.
But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach bunnies.
Ralph
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<DIV><SPAN class=70324715-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Kinda
sounds like a rumor the Florida Tourist Bureau would put out there (I hear they
got bigguns down there). Sounds plausible though, same warm climate as
FL...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=70324715-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002
10:40 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Hawaiian
Eye<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=531173814-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face="Comic Sans MS"
size=2>I didn't see no stinking cuccarachas when I was there, even crawling
through the bunker at Diamond Head or at Waiameya (sp?) Falls. Maybe
they're on the Big Island.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir = ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:52
AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Hawaiian
Eye<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0
size=2 FAMILY = SANSSERIF>I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians
that, in addition to the beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are
reported to be giant flying cockroaches in Hawaii. <BR><BR>I don't know for
a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have been told to me
specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance that it's true,
I ain't goin'.<BR><BR>But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach
bunnies.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:52:14 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Digging
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Marty (Windex) Skrelunas is correct! Many hands make light work, but many
guys will need two things in particular.
You have to give these guys what they like in order to do what you want. One
thing guys like is a club house. Of course, you don't just give them a club
house in the attic, because the one thing guys like more than having a club
house is building a club house. Just give them the time and materials to
enclose the excavation space and adjacent cellar space with firring strips
and clear poly sheeting. Add a little heat. Add a few wood boxes they can
sit on, stones and cans don't make good club house furniture. Make sure one
of the wood boxes is full of donuts, thermos of coffee, hot chocolate, etc.
I'm presuming here that your ditch crew is guys, because the club house
motivation only works with guys, who don't want no gals in their club house
'cause when they gotta itch, they gotta scratch, and what they do with those
donuts is up them, just keep that box full of donuts lady and we'll dig yer
ditch.
John
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:21:59 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
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Nawwww. They jist gots them thar Luv Bugs.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Marcham [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
Kinda sounds like a rumor the Florida Tourist Bureau would put out there (I
hear they got bigguns down there). Sounds plausible though, same warm
climate as FL...
-----Original Message-----
From: Stevenson, Pam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
I didn't see no stinking cuccarachas when I was there, even crawling through
the bunker at Diamond Head or at Waiameya (sp?) Falls. Maybe they're on the
Big Island.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian Eye
I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians that, in addition to the
beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are reported to be giant
flying cockroaches in Hawaii.
I don't know for a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have
been told to me specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance
that it's true, I ain't goin'.
But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach bunnies.
Ralph
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=640212117-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Nawwww. They jist gots them thar Luv Bugs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Bruce Marcham
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:54
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Hawaiian Eye<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=70324715-24102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Kinda
sounds like a rumor the Florida Tourist Bureau would put out there (I hear
they got bigguns down there). Sounds plausible though, same warm climate
as FL...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=70324715-24102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevenson, Pam
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24,
2002 10:40 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Hawaiian
Eye<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=531173814-24102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I didn't see no stinking cuccarachas when I was there, even crawling
through the bunker at Diamond Head or at Waiameya (sp?) Falls. Maybe
they're on the Big Island.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:52
AM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Hawaiian
Eye<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial
size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I feel I should warn all you would-be Hawaiians
that, in addition to the beach bunnies and the pineapples and poi, there are
reported to be giant flying cockroaches in Hawaii. <BR><BR>I don't know for
a fact that the cockroach story is true, and it may have been told to me
specifically to keep me the hell away, but on the off chance that it's true,
I ain't goin'.<BR><BR>But you could send me a postcard. Of the beach
bunnies.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:42:30 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music Production
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In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were you
> actually the music manager or the production assistant?
I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got was
that there could have been an explosive situation of personalities, but there
was not one -- not for the lack of music would there be an explosion, but for
the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell do I know... today a
client is ENRAGED because he did not know that something I thought was little
(like delivering a garbage container) was going to occur, and he thought it
was a big deal and felt disrespected for not being invited to show up.
"At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the job super and other
workers before turning it on." In the scenario I'm painting it was a group
decision to play music and an imposed heirarchy from the outside, not seeing
the organic dynamic of groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it off.
Miscommunication.
I agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site is
nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp Commandant when
I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life support sytems" were
not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant no boom boxes. My point,
though, is that there are valid exceptions and that on occasion it is
beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow music,
particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The fact
that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal study
of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend over to
accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a worksite.
I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being assigned to dig a
ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming up off Cayuga Lake,
so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind chill and the pick
bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as punishment because
some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he needed to establish his
mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If production was anything
what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working towards production is not
always what is going on with a jobsite, then playing music and offering us
warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch done without us commodity
donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through a week of hell. Or he
could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an hour. In short, if you
want production then don't treat people like they are replaceable pieces of
shit.
"You may be right about the universal language, but I don't get it on the
work site. Dance and Art yes, but a typical work site, no. "
Stretch our mind a bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't very
often get asked to work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance, bro, good
work is art.
A truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of their
craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or no music.
If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to the silence of
the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in Manhattan without a
fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your ears out.
I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were you actually the music manager or the production assistant?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got was that there could have been an explosive situation of personalities, but there was not one -- not for the lack of music would there be an explosion, but for the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell do I know... today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that something I thought was little (like delivering a garbage container) was going to occur, and he thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for not being invited to show up.<BR>
<BR>
"At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the job super and other workers before turning it on." In the scenario I'm painting it was a group decision to play music and an imposed heirarchy from the outside, not seeing the organic dynamic of groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it off. Miscommunication.<BR>
<BR>
I agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site is nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp Commandant when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life support sytems" were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant no boom boxes. My point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and that on occasion it is beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow music, particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The fact that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal study of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend over to accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a worksite.<BR>
<BR>
I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being assigned to dig a ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming up off Cayuga Lake, so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind chill and the pick bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as punishment because some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he needed to establish his mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If production was anything what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working towards production is not always what is going on with a jobsite, then playing music and offering us warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch done without us commodity donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through a week of hell. Or he could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an hour. In short, if you want production then don't treat people like they are replaceable pieces of shit.<BR>
<BR>
"You may be right about the universal language, but I don't get it on the work site. Dance and Art yes, but a typical work site, no. "</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Stretch our mind a bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't very often get asked to work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance, bro, good work is art.<BR>
<BR>
A truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of their craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or no music. If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to the silence of the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in Manhattan without a fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your ears out.<BR>
<BR>
I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:43:39 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:15:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they go away.
At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they eat me up with
nothing left over.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:15:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they go away.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
At least in real life I get to solve my problems and they eat me up with nothing left over.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:58:14 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bruce Marcham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music Production
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Ken:
Don't forget to invite him to the pumping of the porta-potty!
Signed,
Silence, Monk
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Follett [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Music Production
In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were you
actually the music manager or the production assistant?
I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got was
that there could have been an explosive situation of personalities, but
there was not one -- not for the lack of music would there be an explosion,
but for the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell do I know...
today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that something I thought
was little (like delivering a garbage container) was going to occur, and he
thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for not being invited to
show up.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C27B86.ECD7E080
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charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Arial size=2>Ken:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Don't
forget to invite him to the pumping of the porta-potty!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>Signed,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>Silence, Monk</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=920055117-24102002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ken Follett
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Music Production<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"
TYPE = CITE>Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier,
were you actually the music manager or the production assistant?</FONT><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
FAMILY = SANSSERIF></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0
size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY = SANSSERIF><BR>I got labeled
the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got was that there could
have been an explosive situation of personalities, but there was not one -- not
for the lack of music would there be an explosion, but for the pressure of the
work situation. But what the hell do I know... today a client is ENRAGED because
he did not know that something I thought was little (like delivering a garbage
container) was going to occur, and he thought it was a big deal and felt
disrespected for not being invited to show up.<BR></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:58:42 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production
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In a message dated 10/23/2002 4:46:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> They hate the digging. Today temperatures are in the 40s and rain is in the
> forecast. Help!!!
Ilene,
Call a temp labor service. Put up windbreaks & rain shelters. Find a
humanitarian supervisor. Provide rain gear. Go w/ the cocoa & donuts.
Years back we had a gig to shovel snow off the New Amsterdam Theater, just
prior to Disney announcing their deal to take over the building. We had a
heavy snowfall and their was considered concern that the roof would collapse
as the drains were plugged. Our Jamaican crew (and not all Jamaicans smoke
despite the stereotype), who often wear coats & sweat shirts in the spring &
fall and complain how cold it is on an otherwise nice day would shovel for a
while then go in for shelter and a warm up. These guys were freezing their
n_ts off as it is said in the field. The fellow from the Empire State who we
were working under, for real, was in his office tower overlooking the theater
and every time the guys would duck in to warm up he would call us in our
office in Brooklyn upset that the guys had left the job etc. He had to be
sitting there with binoculars. Of course, I did not let them play the radio
and I should have learned something right then and there. Then again, the gig
we did where a guy had to sit all night and watch the propane heater in the
same theater we let him play Nintendo.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 4:46:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">They hate the digging. Today temperatures are in the 40s and rain is in the forecast. Help!!!</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Ilene,<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Call a temp labor service. Put up windbreaks & rain shelters. Find a humanitarian supervisor. Provide rain gear. Go w/ the cocoa & donuts.<BR>
<BR>
Years back we had a gig to shovel snow off the New Amsterdam Theater, just prior to Disney announcing their deal to take over the building. We had a heavy snowfall and their was considered concern that the roof would collapse as the drains were plugged. Our Jamaican crew (and not all Jamaicans smoke despite the stereotype), who often wear coats & sweat shirts in the spring & fall and complain how cold it is on an otherwise nice day would shovel for a while then go in for shelter and a warm up. These guys were freezing their n_ts off as it is said in the field. The fellow from the Empire State who we were working under, for real, was in his office tower overlooking the theater and every time the guys would duck in to warm up he would call us in our office in Brooklyn upset that the guys had left the job etc. He had to be sitting there with binoculars. Of course, I did not let them play the radio and I should have learned something right then and there. Then again, the gig we did where a guy had to sit all night and watch the propane heater in the same theater we let him play Nintendo.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:02:22 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:55:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> There should probably be one about waiting for the City inspector's approval
> before we can order and pour the concrete.
Ilene,
A squad of BP'rs are now certified as proficient in shotgun technology if you
REALLY need persuasive power! ;-)
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:55:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">There should probably be one about waiting for the City inspector's approval before we can order and pour the concrete.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Il</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">ene,<BR>
<BR>
A squad of BP'rs are now certified as proficient in shotgun technology if you REALLY need persuasive power! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:05:50 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "Production" is the right heading for this new topic...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:16:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> We used to have a toy poodle that loved to visit folks
It also had a bad habit of trying to hump your leg. One day it went away into
the woods yapping at something and never returned.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:16:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We used to have a toy poodle that loved to visit folks </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
It also had a bad habit of trying to hump your leg. One day it went away into the woods yapping at something and never returned.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:03:50 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: mitch wilds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 19th century NYC
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"Why should it be loved as a city? It is never the same city for a dozen
years altogether. A man born in New York forty years ago finds nothing,
absolutely nothing, of the New York he knew. If he chances to stumble
upon a few old houses not yet leveled, he is fortunate. But landmarks,
the objects which marked the city to him, as a city, are gone."
-
Harpers Monthly, June 1856
This lament about New York may be standard fare with the NYC
preservationeer elite, but it turned up in A Thread Across the Ocean, a
history of the trans-atlantic cable. ("Hey folks, I've got a great
idea, let's connect Ireland to Canada with a 5/8 inch wire.")
--
F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
Restoration Branch
State Historic Preservation Office
919/733-6547
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us
***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction of public
business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:00:35 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production - "The melted snow runs ....."
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In a message composed with a boombox blaring over the roar of a propane
heater, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Years back we had a gig to shovel snow off the New Amsterdam Theater, just
> prior to Disney announcing their deal to take over the building. We had a
> heavy snowfall and their was considered concern that the roof would
>
Ken, to where do you shovel the snow from the top of a 75" high building?
Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message composed with a boombox blaring over the roar of a propane heater, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Years back we had a gig to shovel snow off the New Amsterdam Theater, just prior to Disney announcing their deal to take over the building. We had a heavy snowfall and their was considered concern that the roof would collapse as the drains were plugged. </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>Ken, to where do you shovel the snow from the top of a 75" high building? Christopher</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:03:36 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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> F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
> Restoration Branch
> State Historic Preservation Office
> 919/733-6547
> s
Last name: Wilds Middle name: Mi(t)chener Best, Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
<BR>Restoration Branch
<BR>State Historic Preservation Office
<BR>919/733-6547
<BR>http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.u</BLOCKQUOTE>s</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>Last name: Wilds Middle name: Mi(t)chener Best, Christopher
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:13 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:11:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> That's why I figure I'm here, as part of the comic relief.
We're glad to have you.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:11:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">That's why I figure I'm here, as part of the comic relief.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
We're glad to have you.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:10:34 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 11:17:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I think my first response to you wasn't worded properly, and was pretty
> snide. Sorry about that - the send button was hit before the copy editor
> finished her coffee.
>
Pam,
Don't lose sleep over it. I didn't even notice. Could it be that I'm so
used to being insulted that I can't even recognize it anymore?
Sign me,
Married With Children
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 11:17:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I think my first response to you wasn't worded properly, and was pretty snide. Sorry about that - the send button was hit before the copy editor finished her coffee.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Pam,<BR>
<BR>
Don't lose sleep over it. I didn't even notice. Could it be that I'm so used to being insulted that I can't even recognize it anymore?<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
Married With Children</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:20:48 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hawaiian and Floridian Eyefuls
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 1:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Kinda sounds like a rumor the Florida Tourist Bureau would put out there (I
> hear they got bigguns down there). Sounds plausible though, same warm
> climate as FL...
>
I've already given away my lifetime interest in/share of Florida, just as I
gave away my lifetime supply of cold showers, so I don't care what they have
in goddam Florida, 'cause I ain't goin' back. Didn't hear tell of no giant
flying cockaroaches in FL, but I did hear (from a local) about snakes falling
(and/or jumping) out of palm trees.
Steve, I don't remember any flying cockaroaches in GA, either, but the gnat
clouds may be as dense. Maybe youse guys up in the Yankee/seacost part of
the state keep these flying cockaroaches and don't share them with Mah
Relations further inland and farther south.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 1:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Kinda sounds like a rumor the Florida Tourist Bureau would put out there (I hear they got bigguns down there). Sounds plausible though, same warm climate as FL...</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I've already given away my lifetime interest in/share of Florida, just as I gave away my lifetime supply of cold showers, so I don't care what they have in goddam Florida, 'cause I ain't goin' back. Didn't hear tell of no giant flying cockaroaches in FL, but I did hear (from a local) about snakes falling (and/or jumping) out of palm trees.<BR>
<BR>
Steve, I don't remember any flying cockaroaches in GA, either, but the gnat clouds may be as dense. Maybe youse guys up in the Yankee/seacost part of the state keep these flying cockaroaches and don't share them with Mah Relations further inland and farther south.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:26:09 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 2:09:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> This lament about New York may be standard fare with the NYC
> preservationeer elite, but it turned up in A Thread Across the Ocean, a
> history of the trans-atlantic cable.
Just goes to show you that the more things change, the less they stay the
same. Goddam New Yorkers bitch about the same stuff their great great great
great grandparents did. Not like you southerners.
Ralph the Californian in Exile
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 2:09:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">This lament about New York may be standard fare with the NYC<BR>
preservationeer elite, but it turned up in A Thread Across the Ocean, a<BR>
history of the trans-atlantic cable. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Just goes to show you that the more things change, the less they stay the same. Goddam New Yorkers bitch about the same stuff their great great great great grandparents did. Not like you southerners.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph the Californian in Exile</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:27:27 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production - "The melted snow runs ....."
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:01:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ken, to where do you shovel the snow from the top of a 75" high building?
> Christopher
Chrif,
It's good that you're asking that question now, rather than then.
Oh, you said a 75 INCH high building. Never mind.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:01:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ken, to where do you shovel the snow from the top of a 75" high building? Christopher</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Chrif,<BR>
<BR>
It's good that you're asking that question now, rather than then. <BR>
<BR>
Oh, you said a 75 INCH high building. Never mind.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:27:32 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: mitch wilds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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Now I'm confused....
sign me,
YG Pretender
Met History wrote:
>
>
>> F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
>> Restoration Branch
>> State Historic Preservation Office
>> 919/733-6547
>> http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.u
>
> s
>
> Last name: Wilds Middle name: Mi(t)chener Best,
> Christopher
--
F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
Restoration Branch
State Historic Preservation Office
919/733-6547
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us
***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
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Now I'm confused....
<br>sign me,
<br>YG Pretender
<p>Met History wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>F.
Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Restoration Branch</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>State Historic Preservation
Office</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>919/733-6547</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1><A HREF="http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.u">http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.u</A></font></font></blockquote>
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>s</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=+0>Last name:
Wilds Middle name: Mi(t)chener
Best, Christopher</font></font></font></blockquote>
<p>--
<p>F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
<br>Restoration Branch
<br>State Historic Preservation Office
<br>919/733-6547
<br><A HREF="http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us">http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us</A>
<p>***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
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business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:38:08 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: mitch wilds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC
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Ralph Walter wrote:
> Just goes to show you that the more things change, the less they stay
> the same. Goddam New Yorkers bitch about the same stuff their great
> great great great grandparents did. Not like you southerners.
>
> Ralph the Californian in Exile
Actually, this must be something southerners and New Yorkers have in
common. Bitching about what New Yorker's great gerat great great
grandparents did way way way back then. (Of course probably most New
Yorker's great great great great grandparents were not New Yorkers
anyway.)
Mitch the Mississippian in Exile
--
F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
Restoration Branch
State Historic Preservation Office
919/733-6547
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us
***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<p>Ralph Walter wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Just goes to show
you that the more things change, the less they stay the same. Goddam
New Yorkers bitch about the same stuff their great great great great grandparents
did. Not like you southerners.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Ralph the Californian in Exile</font></font></blockquote>
Actually, this must be something southerners and New Yorkers have in common.
Bitching about what New Yorker's great gerat great great grandparents
did way way way back then. (Of course probably most New Yorker's great
great great great grandparents were not New Yorkers anyway.)
<p>Mitch the Mississippian in Exile
<br>--
<p>F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
<br>Restoration Branch
<br>State Historic Preservation Office
<br>919/733-6547
<br><A HREF="http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us">http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us</A>
<p>***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
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disclosed to third parties.
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:46:39 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Mitch the Mississippian in Exile
>
Well, YOU'VE got lots to be thankful for, don'tcha?
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Mitch the Mississippian in Exile <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Well, YOU'VE got lots to be thankful for, don'tcha?<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:21:25 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: mitch wilds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC
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Ralph Walter wrote:
> In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>> Mitch the Mississippian in Exile
>
> Well, YOU'VE got lots to be thankful for, don'tcha?
>
> Ralph
As an adopted North Carolinian, I sure do, like Jesse Helms' retirement;
however, the joy may be short lived as Ole Jess may well be followed by
our answer to Senator Hillary Clinton - Senator Elizabeth Dole, wife of
Viagra and Pepsi spokesman Bob Dole. What a country!!!
Senatorially Apologetic,
Mitch
--
F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
Restoration Branch
State Historic Preservation Office
919/733-6547
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us
***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
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<p>Ralph Walter wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>In a message dated
10/24/2002 3:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Mitch
the Mississippian in Exile</font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Well, YOU'VE got lots to be thankful
for, don'tcha?</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Ralph</font></font></blockquote>
As an adopted North Carolinian, I sure do, like Jesse Helms' retirement;
however, the joy may be short lived as Ole Jess may well be followed by
our answer to Senator Hillary Clinton - Senator Elizabeth Dole, wife of
Viagra and Pepsi spokesman Bob Dole. What a country!!!
<br>Senatorially Apologetic,
<br>Mitch
<br>
<br>
<p>
<br>
<p>--
<p>F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
<br>Restoration Branch
<br>State Historic Preservation Office
<br>919/733-6547
<br><A HREF="http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us">http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us</A>
<p>***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:43:10 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Fucks
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 5:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> As an adopted North Carolinian, I sure do, like Jesse Helms' retirement;
> however, the joy may be short lived as Ole Jess may well be followed by our
> answer to Senator Hillary Clinton - Senator Elizabeth Dole, wife of Viagra
> and Pepsi spokesman Bob Dole. What a country!!!
> Senatorially Apologetic,
> Mitch
Mitch,
We forgive you, if not the rest of the citizens of your adopted state.
Fortunately, we in New Jersey have none but the most enlightened and sterling
characters as our elected representatives and on our governing bodies, on all
levels.
Now that the rest of them are in jail.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 5:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">As an adopted North Carolinian, I sure do, like Jesse Helms' retirement; however, the joy may be short lived as Ole Jess may well be followed by our answer to Senator Hillary Clinton - Senator Elizabeth Dole, wife of Viagra and Pepsi spokesman Bob Dole. What a country!!! <BR>
Senatorially Apologetic, <BR>
Mitch </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Mitch,<BR>
<BR>
We forgive you, if not the rest of the citizens of your adopted state. Fortunately, we in New Jersey have none but the most enlightened and sterling characters as our elected representatives and on our governing bodies, on all levels. <BR>
<BR>
Now that the rest of them are in jail. <BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:50:44 -1000
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Spencer A. Leineweber" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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"Pyrate,
If you should decide to go back I would be honored to carry your tools
for you, be your gopher, and possibly help with native or native wanna
be females. I think I could tolerate Hawaii for...the rest of my life.
I would be willing to even learn how to belly dance with those luscious
island beauties. Oh behave.
Sign me,
Hawaii Five-O"
Maybe you do, but excuuuuuuussssse me, we do not belly dance.
Spencer
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:15:38 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hawaiian and Floridian Eyefuls
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:22:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Steve, I don't remember any flying cockaroaches in GA, either, but the gnat
> clouds may be as dense.
I'll be glad to bottle some up for you if you would like. They really do fly.
Have plenty of gnats and those damn disease carrying mosquitos. I sure wish
we could find a way to make mosquitos become extinct.
Sign me,
West Nile
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:22:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Steve, I don't remember any flying cockaroaches in GA, either, but the gnat clouds may be as dense. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
I'll be glad to bottle some up for you if you would like. They really do fly. Have plenty of gnats and those damn disease carrying mosquitos. I sure wish we could find a way to make mosquitos become extinct.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
West Nile</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:20:19 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: production - "The melted snow runs ....."
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:33:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Oh, you said a 75 INCH high building. Never mind.
>
Chrif,
Please include a picture of this 75 INCH building. I would think you could
use a step ladder and a snow shovel.
Sign me,
Smart Ass
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:33:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Oh, you said a 75 INCH high building. Never mind.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Chrif,<BR>
<BR>
Please include a picture of this 75 </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=5 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><B>INCH </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"></B>building. I would think you could use a step ladder and a snow shovel.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Smart Ass</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:21:31 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:34:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Now I'm confused....
>
Yeah me too.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:34:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Now I'm confused.... <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Yeah me too.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:27:34 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:51:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> we do not belly dance
Spence,
What do you call it? Their belly moves up and down, down and up.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:51:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">we do not belly dance</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Spence,<BR>
<BR>
What do you call it? Their belly moves up and down, down and up.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:43:16 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >> Now I'm confused....
>> Yeah me too.
"Wilds" + James Michener = ....... Yukon! No? Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">[log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Now I'm confused.... <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah me too.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">"Wilds" + James Michener = ....... Yukon! No? Christopher </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:06:03 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:51:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Maybe you do, but excuuuuuuussssse me, we do not belly dance.
> Spencer
Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly dance. Or even
hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested, anyway. Others may be.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:51:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Maybe you do, but excuuuuuuussssse me, we do not belly dance.<BR>
Spencer</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly dance. Or even hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested, anyway. Others may be.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:07:00 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:24:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:34:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
> >> Now I'm confused....
>>
>
> Yeah me too.
Lot of that going around.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:24:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:34:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Now I'm confused.... <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Yeah me too.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Lot of that going around.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:08:18 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:28:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Spence,
>
> What do you call it? Their belly moves up and down, down and up.
>
> Steve
Mine moves down and down. But I don't call it dancing. More along the lines
of "deflecting."
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:28:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Spence,<BR>
<BR>
What do you call it? Their belly moves up and down, down and up.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Mine moves down and down. But I don't call it dancing. More along the lines of "deflecting."<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:09:09 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:43:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> "Wilds" + James Michener = ....... Yukon! No? Christopher
Huh? (and you can quote me on that).
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:43:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">"Wilds" + James Michener = ....... Yukon! No? Christopher </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Huh? (and you can quote me on that).<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:15:07 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Humbly apologizing petition...
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Apparently I made what technical people call a "typo", using the outside
quote (") mark after the numeral 75 to indicate 75 feet. But in fact I
should have used the inside quote (') after the 75; by using the outside
quote, I erroneously gave the impression that Our Founder, Ken Follett, was
shovelling snow off the roof of a 75-inch high building (which is,
approximately 6 feet 3 inches and thus fairly unlikely, unless Apple is
having to bid on doghouse work).
To shovel snow off the roof of such a low building would, of course, violate
the guidelines set by the Secretary of the Interior for snow removal from
historic buildings and, possibly, result in widespread boll weevil and/or
electromagnetic radiation damage throughout the Mississippi delta, greater
Raleigh, the lower Yukon and Ruth's vegetable garden. [Hey, whatever
happened to Heidi, anyway?] It also reflects unfairly upon Our Founder's
professionalism, patriotism and ability to touch his nose with his finger
after drinking a keg of Historic Preservation Booster Liquid (universal
copyright, all rts rsvd, Michael Davidson and His Cute Little Daughter). It
may also void the warranty on his breast implants, electronic rodent repeller
and matched platinum grappling hook set. (John Leeke's Preservation Brief
#83,427 on this subject will be available next week.)
It has also, I observe, created an atmosphere of anxiety, indeed panic, among
certain subscribers to this listserv and, I recognize, may consitute sexual
or, possibly, asexual harrassment. Furthermore, such erroneous
unit-labelling tramples upon the ancient and honorable tradition of
Absolutely Dead Serious No-Static Posts upon which this listserv is founded,
and Which Is Its Very Greatness And What We All Hold Dear and which, along
with everyone's scrupulous care with regard to making sure the Subject Line
of their post actually refers to what they are posting about, and not some
forgotten topic that was current about, oh, two or three centuries ago, keeps
the B-P stock price up and thus assures the financial viability of our
special yearly Gala Widows & Orphans Zig-Zag Expansion Joint Ball.
Therefore I wish to apologize to anyone I may have offended, anyone who would
have been offended if they bothered to wade through all the crap that already
goes back and forth on B-P and clogs up everybody's mailbox even though most
people are too afraid to mention it because they don't want to hurt anyone's
soft little feelings, and anyone I should have offended but did not because I
neglected to put my completely serious query in the form of a zingy one-liner
laced with sexual or scatological innuendo.
Because of this I request permission to withdraw my utterly serious query,
and emphatically state that I do not now, nor in the future wish to know, how
Ken disposed of snow jeopardizing the structural safety of one of New York's
most important Landmark theaters, even though I still have not seen The Lion
King, which is playing there now and may, indeed, be crushed to strawberry
jelly when I do finally get tickets coincident with the Big Hailstorm And
Blizzard of February 2004.
With the honor of addressing you, Sirs and Mesdames, I remain,
Yr Obdnt Svnt, Chriftopher Gray
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Apparently I made what technical people call a "typo", using the outside quote (") mark after the numeral 75 to indicate 75 feet. But in fact I should have used the inside quote (') after the 75; by using the outside quote, I erroneously gave the impression that Our Founder, Ken Follett, was shovelling snow off the roof of a 75-inch high building (which is, approximately 6 feet 3 inches and thus fairly unlikely, unless Apple is having to bid on doghouse work). <BR>
<BR>
To shovel snow off the roof of such a low building would, of course, violate the guidelines set by the Secretary of the Interior for snow removal from historic buildings and, possibly, result in widespread boll weevil and/or electromagnetic radiation damage throughout the Mississippi delta, greater Raleigh, the lower Yukon and Ruth's vegetable garden. [Hey, whatever happened to Heidi, anyway?] It also reflects unfairly upon Our Founder's professionalism, patriotism and ability to touch his nose with his finger after drinking a keg of Historic Preservation Booster Liquid (universal copyright, all rts rsvd, Michael Davidson and His Cute Little Daughter). It may also void the warranty on his breast implants, electronic rodent repeller and matched platinum grappling hook set. (John Leeke's Preservation Brief #83,427 on this subject will be available next week.)<BR>
<BR>
It has also, I observe, created an atmosphere of anxiety, indeed panic, among certain subscribers to this listserv and, I recognize, may consitute sexual or, possibly, asexual harrassment. Furthermore, such erroneous unit-labelling tramples upon the ancient and honorable tradition of Absolutely Dead Serious No-Static Posts upon which this listserv is founded, and Which Is Its Very Greatness And What We All Hold Dear and which, along with everyone's scrupulous care with regard to making sure the Subject Line of their post actually refers to what they are posting about, and not some forgotten topic that was current about, oh, two or three centuries ago, keeps the B-P stock price up and thus assures the financial viability of our special yearly Gala Widows & Orphans Zig-Zag Expansion Joint Ball.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore I wish to apologize to anyone I may have offended, anyone who would have been offended if they bothered to wade through all the crap that already goes back and forth on B-P and clogs up everybody's mailbox even though most people are too afraid to mention it because they don't want to hurt anyone's soft little feelings, and anyone I should have offended but did not because I neglected to put my completely serious query in the form of a zingy one-liner laced with sexual or scatological innuendo.<BR>
<BR>
Because of this I request permission to withdraw my utterly serious query, and emphatically state that I do not now, nor in the future wish to know, how Ken disposed of snow jeopardizing the structural safety of one of New York's most important Landmark theaters, even though I still have not seen The Lion King, which is playing there now and may, indeed, be crushed to strawberry jelly when I do finally get tickets coincident with the Big Hailstorm And Blizzard of February 2004.<BR>
<BR>
With the honor of addressing you, Sirs and Mesdames, I remain,<BR>
<BR>
Yr Obdnt Svnt, Chriftopher Gray </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:19:19 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "S. Stokowski" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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Well, that was certainly said.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">Well, that was certainly said.<BR>
<BR>
Steve Stokowski<BR>
Stone Products Consultants<BR>
Building Products Microscopy<BR>
10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:24:51 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:06:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly dance. Or
> even hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested, anyway. Others may
> be.
>
I don't know what the heck I was thinking. They shake their hips not their
belly. Sorry Spencer. Anyway like Ralf said we don't want to see you belly or
hula. Thanks anyway.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:06:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly dance. Or even hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested, anyway. Others may be.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
I don't know what the heck I was thinking. They shake their hips not their belly. Sorry Spencer. Anyway like Ralf said we don't want to see you belly or hula. Thanks anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:27:01 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:15:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Mine moves down and down. But I don't call it dancing. More along the
> lines of "deflecting."
>
Seems to be a lot of that going around, or should I say down.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:15:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Mine moves down and down. But I don't call it dancing. More along the lines of "deflecting."<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Seems to be a lot of that going around, or should I say down.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:35:17 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:15:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> With the honor of addressing you, Sirs and Mesdames, I remain,
>
> Yr Obdnt Svnt, Chriftopher Gray
Chrif,
Let me check with Ralf. There may be a fine forthcoming.
Sign me,
Sergeant at arms
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:15:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">With the honor of addressing you, Sirs and Mesdames, I remain,<BR>
<BR>
Yr Obdnt Svnt, Chriftopher Gray </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Chrif,<BR>
<BR>
Let me check with Ralf. There may be a fine forthcoming.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
Sergeant at arms</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:55:56 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:12:04 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...Wow, Steve, how can I get ...
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 01:03:33 -1000
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Spencer A. Leineweber" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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"Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly dance.
Or even hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested, anyway.
Others may be.
Ralph "
Dearest Ralph:
It is obvious that we have never met in the flesh, as I am very much a
lady and can do a hula that will make your eyes drop out. You will be
missing something.
Spencer
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:10:36 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hello,
I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons. Does anyone have a
good way of keeping them off the ledges? Specifically can anyone give
me a lead on the netting system (Like in Germany) or the sound devices?
Thanks,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken
Follett
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Music Production
In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were you
actually the music manager or the production assistant?
I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got
was that there could have been an explosive situation of personalities,
but there was not one -- not for the lack of music would there be an
explosion, but for the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell
do I know... today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that
something I thought was little (like delivering a garbage container) was
going to occur, and he thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected
for not being invited to show up.
"At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the job super and
other workers before turning it on." In the scenario I'm painting it was
a group decision to play music and an imposed heirarchy from the
outside, not seeing the organic dynamic of groupthink teamwork, that
asked to shut it off. Miscommunication.
I agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site
is nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp
Commandant when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life
support sytems" were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant
no boom boxes. My point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and
that on occasion it is beneficial to everyone, including the end
customer, to allow music, particularly if it promotes the flow of
production and good will. The fact that anyone does not like music on a
worksite, or has done an anecdotal study of the effect of music on group
or artiste performance, I do not bend over to accept as a universal rule
to always prohibit music from a worksite.
I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being assigned to
dig a ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming up off
Cayuga Lake, so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind
chill and the pick bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it
as punishment because some of us were a few levels smarter than he and
he needed to establish his mastery over the crew by example of brute
force. If production was anything what he had in mind, and mind you a
goal of working towards production is not always what is going on with a
jobsite, then playing music and offering us warm cocoa and donuts might
have got the ditch done without us commodity donkeys having to risk
frostbite and lived through a week of hell. Or he could have
requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an hour. In short, if you want
production then don't treat people like they are replaceable pieces of
shit.
"You may be right about the universal language, but I don't get it on
the work site. Dance and Art yes, but a typical work site, no. "
Stretch our mind a bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't
very often get asked to work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance,
bro, good work is art.
A truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of
their craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or
no music. If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to
the silence of the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in
Manhattan without a fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your
ears out.
I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)
][<en
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Hello,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I need to protect
an ornate facade from pigeons. Does anyone have a good way of keeping them
off the ledges? Specifically can anyone give me a lead on the netting
system (Like in Germany) or the sound devices?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only
great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken
Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Music
Production<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier,
were you actually the music manager or the production assistant?</FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such.
Best comment I got was that there could have been an explosive situation of
personalities, but there was not one -- not for the lack of music would there
be an explosion, but for the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell
do I know... today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that something
I thought was little (like delivering a garbage container) was going to occur,
and he thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for not being invited
to show up.<BR><BR>"At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the job
super and other workers before turning it on." In the scenario I'm painting it
was a group decision to play music and an imposed heirarchy from the outside,
not seeing the organic dynamic of groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it
off. Miscommunication.<BR><BR>I agree fully that 99% of the time music played
on a construction site is nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the
Marine Corp Commandant when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that
"life support sytems" were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant
no boom boxes. My point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and that
on occasion it is beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow
music, particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The
fact that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal
study of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend
over to accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a
worksite.<BR><BR>I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being
assigned to dig a ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming up
off Cayuga Lake, so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind chill
and the pick bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as
punishment because some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he needed
to establish his mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If
production was anything what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working
towards production is not always what is going on with a jobsite, then playing
music and offering us warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch done
without us commodity donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through a week
of hell. Or he could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an hour. In
short, if you want production then don't treat people like they are
replaceable pieces of shit.<BR><BR>"You may be right about the universal
language, but I don't get it on the work site. Dance and Art yes, but a
typical work site, no. "</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Stretch our mind a bit and think about it. I've said
before, I don't very often get asked to work on a "typical" worksite. Work is
dance, bro, good work is art.<BR><BR>A truly established mechanic should be
able to practice the best of their craft with any distraction blocked out in
the background. Music or no music. If not, then tell them to stay away from
Manhattan and keep to the silence of the wilderness. You cannot work on a
townhouse facade in Manhattan without a fire truck or ambulance going by and
blowing your ears out.<BR><BR>I like the gilded golf balls.
;-)<BR><BR>][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:13:33 -0500
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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Sounds like gas!
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
In a message dated 10/24/2002 8:51:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
we do not belly dance
Spence,
What do you call it? Their belly moves up and down, down and up.
Steve
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<DIV><SPAN class=860061912-25102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Sounds
like gas!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:28
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Lanai<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face="High Tower Text" size=4 FAMILY="SERIF">In a message dated 10/24/2002
8:51:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">we do not belly dance</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="High Tower Text" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF"><BR>Spence,<BR><BR>What do you call it? Their belly moves up
and down, down and up.<BR><BR>Steve</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:18:01 -0500
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai
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Does this mean that it should be called hippy dancing?
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:06:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly dance. Or
even hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested, anyway. Others may
be.
I don't know what the heck I was thinking. They shake their hips not their
belly. Sorry Spencer. Anyway like Ralf said we don't want to see you belly
or hula. Thanks anyway.
Steve
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<DIV><SPAN class=40312312-25102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Does
this mean that it should be called hippy dancing?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:25
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Lanai<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face="High Tower Text" size=4 FAMILY="SERIF">In a message dated 10/24/2002
10:06:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Excuuuuuuuse me, but we aren't interested in seeing YOU belly
dance. Or even hula dance. Well, some of us aren't interested,
anyway. Others may be.<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="High Tower Text" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF"><BR>I don't know what the heck I was thinking. They shake their
hips not their belly. Sorry Spencer. Anyway like Ralf said we don't want to
see you belly or hula. Thanks anyway.<BR><BR>Steve</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:21:51 -0500
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite
http://www.nixalite.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Leland Torrence [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:11 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
Hello,
I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons. Does anyone have a good
way of keeping them off the ledges? Specifically can anyone give me a lead
on the netting system (Like in Germany) or the sound devices?
Thanks,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Follett
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Music Production
In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were you
actually the music manager or the production assistant?
I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got was
that there could have been an explosive situation of personalities, but
there was not one -- not for the lack of music would there be an explosion,
but for the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell do I know...
today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that something I thought
was little (like delivering a garbage container) was going to occur, and he
thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for not being invited to
show up.
"At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the job super and other
workers before turning it on." In the scenario I'm painting it was a group
decision to play music and an imposed heirarchy from the outside, not seeing
the organic dynamic of groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it off.
Miscommunication.
I agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site is
nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp Commandant
when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life support sytems"
were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant no boom boxes. My
point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and that on occasion it is
beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow music,
particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The fact
that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal
study of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend
over to accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a worksite.
I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being assigned to dig a
ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming up off Cayuga Lake,
so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind chill and the pick
bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as punishment because
some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he needed to establish his
mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If production was anything
what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working towards production is
not always what is going on with a jobsite, then playing music and offering
us warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch done without us commodity
donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through a week of hell. Or he
could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an hour. In short, if
you want production then don't treat people like they are replaceable pieces
of shit.
"You may be right about the universal language, but I don't get it on the
work site. Dance and Art yes, but a typical work site, no. "
Stretch our mind a bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't very
often get asked to work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance, bro, good
work is art.
A truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of their
craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or no music.
If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to the silence
of the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in Manhattan
without a fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your ears out.
I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)
][<en
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<DIV><SPAN class=334272612-25102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>For
the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite <FONT
color=#746884>http://www.<B>nixalite</B>.com/ </FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Leland Torrence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 7:11
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Pidgeons<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Hello,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I need to
protect an ornate facade from pigeons. Does anyone have a good way of
keeping them off the ledges? Specifically can anyone give me a lead on
the netting system (Like in Germany) or the sound devices?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only
great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken
Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Music
Production<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier,
were you actually the music manager or the production
assistant?</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such.
Best comment I got was that there could have been an explosive situation of
personalities, but there was not one -- not for the lack of music would
there be an explosion, but for the pressure of the work situation. But what
the hell do I know... today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that
something I thought was little (like delivering a garbage container) was
going to occur, and he thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for
not being invited to show up.<BR><BR>"At least have the manners and
sensitivity to ask the job super and other workers before turning it on." In
the scenario I'm painting it was a group decision to play music and an
imposed heirarchy from the outside, not seeing the organic dynamic of
groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it off. Miscommunication.<BR><BR>I
agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site is
nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp Commandant
when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life support sytems"
were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant no boom boxes. My
point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and that on occasion it is
beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow music,
particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The fact
that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal
study of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend
over to accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a
worksite.<BR><BR>I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being
assigned to dig a ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming
up off Cayuga Lake, so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind
chill and the pick bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as
punishment because some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he
needed to establish his mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If
production was anything what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working
towards production is not always what is going on with a jobsite, then
playing music and offering us warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch
done without us commodity donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through
a week of hell. Or he could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an
hour. In short, if you want production then don't treat people like they are
replaceable pieces of shit.<BR><BR>"You may be right about the universal
language, but I don't get it on the work site. Dance and Art yes, but
a typical work site, no. "</FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Stretch our mind a
bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't very often get asked to
work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance, bro, good work is art.<BR><BR>A
truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of their
craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or no music.
If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to the silence
of the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in Manhattan
without a fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your ears
out.<BR><BR>I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)<BR><BR>][<en</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:25:58 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Fucks
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:41:46 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Fucks
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Dan -
You got a viral infection????
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Becker, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Fucks
******** McAfee GroupShield Exchange **********
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:43:17 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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Leland -
I think Ken/Apple is certified in pidgeon abatement - I recall him saying
that pidgeon poo is more caustic/dangerous to breathe than asbestos.
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Leland Torrence [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:11 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
Hello,
I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons. Does anyone have a good
way of keeping them off the ledges? Specifically can anyone give me a lead
on the netting system (Like in Germany) or the sound devices?
Thanks,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Follett
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Music Production
In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier, were you
actually the music manager or the production assistant?
I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such. Best comment I got was
that there could have been an explosive situation of personalities, but
there was not one -- not for the lack of music would there be an explosion,
but for the pressure of the work situation. But what the hell do I know...
today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that something I thought
was little (like delivering a garbage container) was going to occur, and he
thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for not being invited to
show up.
"At least have the manners and sensitivity to ask the job super and other
workers before turning it on." In the scenario I'm painting it was a group
decision to play music and an imposed heirarchy from the outside, not seeing
the organic dynamic of groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it off.
Miscommunication.
I agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site is
nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp Commandant
when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life support sytems"
were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant no boom boxes. My
point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and that on occasion it is
beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow music,
particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The fact
that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal
study of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend
over to accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a worksite.
I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being assigned to dig a
ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming up off Cayuga Lake,
so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind chill and the pick
bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as punishment because
some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he needed to establish his
mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If production was anything
what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working towards production is
not always what is going on with a jobsite, then playing music and offering
us warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch done without us commodity
donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through a week of hell. Or he
could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an hour. In short, if
you want production then don't treat people like they are replaceable pieces
of shit.
"You may be right about the universal language, but I don't get it on the
work site. Dance and Art yes, but a typical work site, no. "
Stretch our mind a bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't very
often get asked to work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance, bro, good
work is art.
A truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of their
craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or no music.
If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to the silence
of the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in Manhattan
without a fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your ears out.
I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)
][<en
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<DIV><SPAN class=123094212-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland -</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=123094212-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=123094212-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I think Ken/Apple is certified in pidgeon abatement - I recall him saying
that pidgeon poo is more caustic/dangerous to breathe than
asbestos.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=123094212-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=123094212-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>- Pam</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Leland Torrence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 8:11
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Pidgeons<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Hello,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I need to
protect an ornate facade from pigeons. Does anyone have a good way of
keeping them off the ledges? Specifically can anyone give me a lead on
the netting system (Like in Germany) or the sound devices?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=978320612-25102002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only
great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken
Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Music
Production<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>In a message dated 10/23/2002 5:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Now Ken, at the site you describe with the language barrier,
were you actually the music manager or the production
assistant?</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>I got labeled the Morale Master, or something such.
Best comment I got was that there could have been an explosive situation of
personalities, but there was not one -- not for the lack of music would
there be an explosion, but for the pressure of the work situation. But what
the hell do I know... today a client is ENRAGED because he did not know that
something I thought was little (like delivering a garbage container) was
going to occur, and he thought it was a big deal and felt disrespected for
not being invited to show up.<BR><BR>"At least have the manners and
sensitivity to ask the job super and other workers before turning it on." In
the scenario I'm painting it was a group decision to play music and an
imposed heirarchy from the outside, not seeing the organic dynamic of
groupthink teamwork, that asked to shut it off. Miscommunication.<BR><BR>I
agree fully that 99% of the time music played on a construction site is
nothing but a goddamn irritation. The wife of the Marine Corp Commandant
when I worked on his house in DC made it explicit that "life support sytems"
were not allowed above the 1st floor level -- she meant no boom boxes. My
point, though, is that there are valid exceptions and that on occasion it is
beneficial to everyone, including the end customer, to allow music,
particularly if it promotes the flow of production and good will. The fact
that anyone does not like music on a worksite, or has done an anecdotal
study of the effect of music on group or artiste performance, I do not bend
over to accept as a universal rule to always prohibit music from a
worksite.<BR><BR>I distinctly remember, and will likely never forget, being
assigned to dig a ditch in frozen earth in January winter with wind coming
up off Cayuga Lake, so along with sub-freezing temperatures there was wind
chill and the pick bounced off the dirt. The asshole straw boss meant it as
punishment because some of us were a few levels smarter than he and he
needed to establish his mastery over the crew by example of brute force. If
production was anything what he had in mind, and mind you a goal of working
towards production is not always what is going on with a jobsite, then
playing music and offering us warm cocoa and donuts might have got the ditch
done without us commodity donkeys having to risk frostbite and lived through
a week of hell. Or he could have requisitioned a backhoe and been done in an
hour. In short, if you want production then don't treat people like they are
replaceable pieces of shit.<BR><BR>"You may be right about the universal
language, but I don't get it on the work site. Dance and Art yes, but
a typical work site, no. "</FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Stretch our mind a
bit and think about it. I've said before, I don't very often get asked to
work on a "typical" worksite. Work is dance, bro, good work is art.<BR><BR>A
truly established mechanic should be able to practice the best of their
craft with any distraction blocked out in the background. Music or no music.
If not, then tell them to stay away from Manhattan and keep to the silence
of the wilderness. You cannot work on a townhouse facade in Manhattan
without a fire truck or ambulance going by and blowing your ears
out.<BR><BR>I like the gilded golf balls. ;-)<BR><BR>][<en</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:46:59 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Finks
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It blocks incoming! It blocks outgoing! I can't cuss no more no more!=20
But, you can't cuss at me either. Nyah, nyah nyah, nyah nyaaaah nyah.=20
I feel so safe. Thanks, Microsoft and the rest of the thought cartel.
Sign me, dan does this mean I can't discuss cancer of the mammary glands
with all of you too becker
> -----Original Message-----
> From: only great work is done in monkish silence=20
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf=20
> Of Becker, Dan
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Flanks
>=20
>=20
> ******** McAfee GroupShield Exchange **********
> ******** Alert generated at: Friday, October 25, 2002=20
> 08:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> **********************************************************************
>=20
>=20
> The item 210423_1035549044_only great work is done in monkish=20
> silence-ELMO.txt has been replaced because it was blocked.
>=20
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:52:57 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: production - "The melted snow runs ....."
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 12:01:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ken, to where do you shovel the snow from the top of a 75" high building?
C,
Good question. You shovel it to in front of the very large torpedo heater
where it is quickly turned into water and routed through the one drain line
that we made temporary functional. Snow load was one thing, but there was
also natural melt that went where it felt like going. Right up to the day
before Cuomo & Eisner did the press conference there was water running down
through the interior of the building, falling water through corridors etc.,
as the drains either did not work, or were broken. Rather majestic effect I
thought. It was snowing heavily through part of the gig and seemed an odd
task at the time. Though we were working double time to control the snow and
water we were in the dark as to why so much attention was being paid to one
more empty theater building up until after the press conference. I
particularly like problems where we can apply simple solutions combined w/
logistics & knowledge of the terrain. A backbone of our business has been
involved with the movement of water through a masonry structure. Keeping the
theaters from falling down has been an interesting challenge.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 12:01:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ken, to where do you shovel the snow from the top of a 75" high building? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
C,<BR>
<BR>
Good question. You shovel it to in front of the very large torpedo heater where it is quickly turned into water and routed through the one drain line that we made temporary functional. Snow load was one thing, but there was also natural melt that went where it felt like going. Right up to the day before Cuomo & Eisner did the press conference there was water running down through the interior of the building, falling water through corridors etc., as the drains either did not work, or were broken. Rather majestic effect I thought. It was snowing heavily through part of the gig and seemed an odd task at the time. Though we were working double time to control the snow and water we were in the dark as to why so much attention was being paid to one more empty theater building up until after the press conference. I particularly like problems where we can apply simple solutions combined w/ logistics & knowledge of the terrain. A backbone of our business has been involved with the movement of water through a masonry structure. Keeping the theaters from falling down has been an interesting challenge.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:54:05 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Are they just shy, or are they illegal?
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Although there is a lot of loose talk about 19th century building projects
using "imported stonemasons", no one ever thought to interview one of the
importees. With that in mind, I have been trying to chat up one of the
Paki/Serbi/Jamaicy/whatever masons I see working on low-budget NYC "carving"
projects - typically, shaping brown stucco in a crude replication of the
original 19th century details (The wildest capitals I have ever seen are on a
Landmark brownstone house at 3 West 120th Street - they look like alien
smiley faces. The adjacent house, used as the "model" for the replacement
work, is completely intact, has its floral, near-Corinthian pilaster capitals
undamaged.) I am really looking to interview a fresh-off-the-boat,
non-Traditional-Building, non-trained artisan.
But none of them will talk to me. Actually many of them can't talk to me,
speaking no English except "coffee" and "Bullamanka". But the ones that can
all decline to be interviewed about their "training", prospects, life goals,
listserv subscriptions, whatever. This was happening long before 9.11.2002,
also. Ken, or others knowledgeable in the field, are these guys illegals?
Or is it my breath?
Christopher Gray
PS The poodle peed on the paper today, so I feel like God. Whatever that
feels like.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">Although there is a lot of loose talk about 19th century building projects using "imported stonemasons", no one ever thought to interview one of the importees. With that in mind, I have been trying to chat up one of the Paki/Serbi/Jamaicy/whatever masons I see working on low-budget NYC "carving" projects - typically, shaping brown stucco in a crude replication of the original 19th century details (The wildest capitals I have ever seen are on a Landmark brownstone house at 3 West 120th Street - they look like alien smiley faces. The adjacent house, used as the "model" for the replacement work, is completely intact, has its floral, near-Corinthian pilaster capitals undamaged.) I am really looking to interview a fresh-off-the-boat, non-Traditional-Building, non-trained artisan.
<BR>
<BR>But none of them will talk to me. Actually many of them can't talk to me, speaking no English except "coffee" and "Bullamanka". But the ones that can all decline to be interviewed about their "training", prospects, life goals, listserv subscriptions, whatever. This was happening long before 9.11.2002, also. Ken, or others knowledgeable in the field, are these guys illegals? Or is it my breath?
<BR>
<BR>Christopher Gray
<BR>
<BR>PS The poodle peed on the paper today, so I feel like God. Whatever that feels like.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:57:16 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 2:27:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Senator Hillary Clinton - Senator Elizabeth Dole
I understand BIll Clinton & Bob Dole have become best buddies. I wonder what
they share in common?
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/24/2002 2:27:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Senator Hillary Clinton - Senator Elizabeth Dole</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I understand BIll Clinton & Bob Dole have become best buddies. I wonder what they share in common?<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 08:57:31 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Forks
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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=20
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Forks
In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:43:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
It blocks incoming! It blocks outgoing! I can't cuss no more no more!
Unbelievable. So why can't Microsoft do that for ones that have "Viagra"
in the subject line???
=20
=20
Good question. I guess that's considered a pubic service.
=20
D.
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
[log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 8:47=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 19th century =
NYC/=20
20th Century Forks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
size=3D2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:43:52 AM Eastern Daylight =
Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">It blocks incoming! It blocks outgoing! I can't cuss no =
more no=20
more!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR><BR>Unbelievable. So why can't Microsoft do that for ones =
that have=20
"Viagra" in the subject line???<BR></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D351335412-25102002> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D351335412-25102002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D351335412-25102002>Good question. I guess that's considered a =
pubic=20
service.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D351335412-25102002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D351335412-25102002>D.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:01:21 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Forks
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:57:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Good question. I guess that's considered a pubic service.
I thought maybe Bob Dole hjad something to do with it.
M
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:57:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Good question. I guess that's considered a pubic service.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I thought maybe Bob Dole hjad something to do with it.<BR>
<BR>
M</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:02:07 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:09:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Huh? (and you can quote me on that).
>
I'd rather quote Tolstoy.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:09:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Huh? (and you can quote me on that).<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I'd rather quote Tolstoy.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:08:10 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: In deference to 75" tall buildings
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Today's Quote:
"The higher the buildings, the lower the morals."
-- Noel Coward
Christopher -
So what you were really saying is that Ken has high morals.
- Pam
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM><SPAN class=517570513-25102002>Today's
Quote:</SPAN></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><EM>"The higher the buildings, the lower the
morals."<BR></EM>-- Noel Coward </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=517570513-25102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Christopher
-</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=517570513-25102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=517570513-25102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>So what you were
really saying is that Ken has high morals.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=517570513-25102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=517570513-25102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>-
Pam</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:13:34 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Clogged Mailboxes
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:15:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> clogs up everybody's mailbox even though most people are too afraid to
> mention it because they don't want to hurt anyone's soft little feelings
I encourage that subscribers complain openly if they feel that their
mailboxes are clogged by BP. I want to know about it -- on channel or off. It
is a serious problem, and I HAVE been thinking of a long-term solution and
have been considering writing an article for the APT Bulletin (since Quinque)
on a web-based model for the histo presto community to use in order to 1)
communicate on a more wide subscriber basis (a lot of people are afraid to
get e-mail or to subscribe to an active list) and 2) limit the hassle of
overload of noise in a manner to allow subscribers to more efficiently
self-regulate their noise:signal ratio. Any input along these lines, plus or
minus, positive or negative, will be greatly appreciated.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:15:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">clogs up everybody's mailbox even though most people are too afraid to mention it because they don't want to hurt anyone's soft little feelings</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I encourage that subscribers complain openly if they feel that their mailboxes are clogged by BP. I want to know about it -- on channel or off. It is a serious problem, and I HAVE been thinking of a long-term solution and have been considering writing an article for the APT Bulletin (since Quinque) on a web-based model for the histo presto community to use in order to 1) communicate on a more wide subscriber basis (a lot of people are afraid to get e-mail or to subscribe to an active list) and 2) limit the hassle of overload of noise in a manner to allow subscribers to more efficiently self-regulate their noise:signal ratio. Any input along these lines, plus or minus, positive or negative, will be greatly appreciated.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:16:23 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ][<en Drinking Again
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:56:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Hey ][<en is that what you were drinking at IPTW or was that some good ole
> West Virginny moonshine?
I tend to drink Wild Turkey that has been rebottled under private label. Here
I thought everyone thought I was drinking tea.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:56:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hey ][<en is that what you were drinking at IPTW or was that some good ole West Virginny moonshine?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I tend to drink Wild Turkey that has been rebottled under private label. Here I thought everyone thought I was drinking tea.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:18:55 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:24:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite http://www.nixalite
> .com/
Leland-
Here in NYC where the garbage flies high, the pigeons use the entrapped paper
to begin a nesting matrix. The spikes further assist in securing the nesting
material. They love the stuff. Go with the netting.
A few years ago I was visiting Oxford and as I was walking through the
"square" at Christ College, a maintenance man came out with a 22 cal.pellet
gun and blasted a pigeon off a ledge. A little weird, but the guy was a good
shot.
Twybil
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:24:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite </FONT><FONT COLOR="#746884" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">http://www.<B>nixalite</B>.com/ </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Leland-
<BR>
<BR>Here in NYC where the garbage flies high, the pigeons use the entrapped paper to begin a nesting matrix. The spikes further assist in securing the nesting material. They love the stuff. Go with the netting.
<BR>
<BR>A few years ago I was visiting Oxford and as I was walking through the "square" at Christ College, a maintenance man came out with a 22 cal.pellet gun and blasted a pigeon off a ledge. A little weird, but the guy was a good shot.
<BR>
<BR>Twybil</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:19:09 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ][<en Drinking Again
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Yah, Long Island Iced Tea.
-----Original Message-----
I tend to drink Wild Turkey that has been rebottled under private label.
Here I thought everyone thought I was drinking tea.
][<en
--Boundary_(ID_45K/y9/mECP9tiJT8OJiHA)
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=090381813-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Yah, Long Island Iced Tea.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>I tend to drink Wild Turkey that
has been rebottled under private label. Here I thought everyone thought I was
drinking tea.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:22:25 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Spencer Hula & Ralph Dropping Eyes
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 4:04:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It is obvious that we have never met in the flesh, as I am very much a
> lady and can do a hula that will make your eyes drop out.
Can I see both? I've got a digital video camera now... possible marketing
potential for improving signal:noise ratio on BP.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 4:04:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It is obvious that we have never met in the flesh, as I am very much a<BR>
lady and can do a hula that will make your eyes drop out. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Can I see both? I've got a digital video camera now... possible marketing potential for improving signal:noise ratio on BP.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:36:56 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:14:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons.
Leland,
The secret to bird control is to understand the birds first and the building
second.
As to netting, noise makers, small & large game hunters etc. the person to
contact is:
Jack Wagner
Bird Barrier
300 Calvert Avenue
Alexandria, VA 22301
800-662-4737
From pigeons to loose tigers. I suggest you start out by asking Jack about
his adventures with the monkees in the Japanese cherry trees. One hell of an
interesting fellow once he gets talking.
Next secret is to find a local pest control outfit that is smart enough not
to screw up heritage fabric. Sounds to me like you need a good net job.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:14:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Leland,<BR>
<BR>
The secret to bird control is to understand the birds first and the building second.<BR>
<BR>
As to netting, noise makers, small & large game hunters etc. the person to contact is:<BR>
<BR>
Jack Wagner <BR>
Bird Barrier<BR>
300 Calvert Avenue<BR>
Alexandria, VA 22301<BR>
800-662-4737<BR>
<BR>
From pigeons to loose tigers. I suggest you start out by asking Jack about his adventures with the monkees in the Japanese cherry trees. One hell of an interesting fellow once he gets talking.<BR>
<BR>
Next secret is to find a local pest control outfit that is smart enough not to screw up heritage fabric. Sounds to me like you need a good net job.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:38:05 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Clogged Mailboxes
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In a message filled with authorial anguish, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
I don't think it's a "serious" problem. It's just an annoying problem. Too
many one-liners makes Jack tune out - or something like that. However, my
one-liners are so much funnier, so much more moving than those of others, of
course they should be excepted.
Sign me, Take My Post ... Please!
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message filled with authorial anguish, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It is a serious problem, and I HAVE been thinking of a long-term solution </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>I don't think it's a "serious" problem. It's just an annoying problem. Too many one-liners makes Jack tune out - or something like that. However, my one-liners are so much funnier, so much more moving than those of others, of course they should be excepted.
<BR>
<BR>Sign me, Take My Post ... Please! </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:39:55 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:24:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite http://www.nixalite
> .com/
Nixalite, which we have installed a lot of in the past, provides a limited
range of hardware. If you do not understand the birds to begin with then the
hardware may fail. Bird Barrier provides a very wide selection of hardware
but starts from an animal behaviour perspective.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:24:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite </FONT><FONT COLOR="#746884" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">http://www.<B>nixalite</B>.com/ </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Nixalite, which we have installed a lot of in the past, provides a limited range of hardware. If you do not understand the birds to begin with then the hardware may fail. Bird Barrier provides a very wide selection of hardware but starts from an animal behaviour perspective.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:56:11 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Recalcitrant Illegals
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:54:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ken, or others knowledgeable in the field, are these guys illegals? Or is
> it my breath?
>
They may very well be illegal. Hard to tell any more around NYC who is or is
not legal. They may also be working 12:7 and sending 99% of their income home
and they are terrified if they talk to strangers 1) that their employer will
fire them or 2) that you will slow them down from "production" and their
employer will fire still them or 3) they simply do not know what planet you
are coming from.
Breslin's newest book on Eduardo whatever the Mexican immigrant who was
drowned in concrete in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, though Breslin writes pretty
terrible and the book mostly stinks... gives realistic details of the illegal
immigrant experience in the NYC construction industry. I suggest if you
understand them and use NLP you might get a chance to get one to talk.
We could also negotiate some sort of pre-arranged meeting through a trusted
intermediary. You may also need a translator as often the only English they
have is what they pick up on a job. Regardless, it is interesting to me just
how incredibly smart and street wary some of these folks are and yet for the
cultural & language barriers they are locked into another world in our midst.
> PS The poodle peed on the paper today, so I feel like God. Whatever that
> feels like.
Was it the Sunday Real Estate section? Sorry... just HAD to ask.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:54:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ken, or others knowledgeable in the field, are these guys illegals? Or is it my breath? <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">They may very well be illegal. Hard to tell any more around NYC who is or is not legal. They may also be working 12:7 and sending 99% of their income home and they are terrified if they talk to strangers 1) that their employer will fire them or 2) that you will slow them down from "production" and their employer will fire still them or 3) they simply do not know what planet you are coming from. <BR>
<BR>
Breslin's newest book on Eduardo whatever the Mexican immigrant who was drowned in concrete in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, though Breslin writes pretty terrible and the book mostly stinks... gives realistic details of the illegal immigrant experience in the NYC construction industry. I suggest if you understand them and use NLP you might get a chance to get one to talk. <BR>
<BR>
We could also negotiate some sort of pre-arranged meeting through a trusted intermediary. You may also need a translator as often the only English they have is what they pick up on a job. Regardless, it is interesting to me just how incredibly smart and street wary some of these folks are and yet for the cultural & language barriers they are locked into another world in our midst.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">PS The poodle peed on the paper today, so I feel like God. Whatever that feels like.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Was it the Sunday Real Estate section? Sorry... just HAD to ask.<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:59:41 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 6:19:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> A little weird, but the guy was a good shot.
>
Don't be shy you pheasant shooter! The Village Idiot is a founding member of
the BP Hunt Club. We stand ready, willing and able to shoot pigeons anywhere
it is legal. You all have to cook 'em yerselves, though.
I suspect we are warming up for Julip's annual skunk outing.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 6:19:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A little weird, but the guy was a good shot. <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Don't be shy you pheasant shooter! The Village Idiot is a founding member of the BP Hunt Club. We stand ready, willing and able to shoot pigeons anywhere it is legal. You all have to cook 'em yerselves, though. <BR>
<BR>
I suspect we are warming up for Julip's annual skunk outing.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:10:12 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Clogged Mailboxes
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 6:38:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I don't think it's a "serious" problem.
Sorry, C, I don't mean serious here on BP, but serious threshold to opening
up histo presto information online to a larger segement of the industry. When
I asked Robert AM Stern for his e-mail address Norman Weiss, who had been
talking to Stern before my Long Island Iced Tea induced presence arrived on
the scene (with ample backup from fellow BP'rs) and I asked the revered
artichoke, who I got the uneducated impression had just delivered a lecture
on his desire that we level all old buildings and start over with his
designs, for his e-mail address well Norman, whom I greatly respect, turned
and walked away, I think "fled the scene" is appropriate, saying quickly that
he had seen MY e-mails in the past. Stern, being possibly one of those dudes
that avoids keyboards because they too closely resemble typewriters, begged
off that he does not have e-mail, but smiled and gave me his FAX number.
Having said all that, you may be correct that there is no serious problem...
though I did have visions, if not an hallucination, of sucking the great
Stern into BP for a rowdy round of controversy and bloody noses. Norman had
it pegged pretty close. In retrospect I think I will let the great be leveled
in their own juices. Buildings to move and rebuild before the sun sets.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 6:38:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I don't think it's a "serious" problem. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Sorry, C, I don't mean serious here on BP, but serious threshold to opening up histo presto information online to a larger segement of the industry. When I asked Robert AM Stern for his e-mail address Norman Weiss, who had been talking to Stern before my Long Island Iced Tea induced presence arrived on the scene (with ample backup from fellow BP'rs) and I asked the revered artichoke, who I got the uneducated impression had just delivered a lecture on his desire that we level all old buildings and start over with his designs, for his e-mail address well Norman, whom I greatly respect, turned and walked away, I think "fled the scene" is appropriate, saying quickly that he had seen MY e-mails in the past. Stern, being possibly one of those dudes that avoids keyboards because they too closely resemble typewriters, begged off that he does not have e-mail, but smiled and gave me his FAX number. Having said all that, you may be correct that there is no serious problem... though I did have visions, if not an hallucination, of sucking the great Stern into BP for a rowdy round of controversy and bloody noses. Norman had it pegged pretty close. In retrospect I think I will let the great be leveled in their own juices. Buildings to move and rebuild before the sun sets.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:10:20 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Forks
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=20
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mary
Krugman
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:01 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Forks
In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:57:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Good question. I guess that's considered a pubic service.
I thought maybe Bob Dole hjad something to do with it.
=20
We've seen Liddy up close on TV alot here lately (right, non-Yukon?),
and believe me, Viagra is the only hope for Bob.
=20
Sign me, dan sorry the negative ads are really getting to me and taken
over my mind becker
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charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only =
great work=20
is done in monkish silence =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Mary Krugman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, =
2002 9:01=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: 19th century NYC/ 20th Century Forks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a=20
message dated 10/25/2002 8:57:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"FIXED">
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">Good question. I guess that's considered a pubic=20
service.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>I thought maybe Bob =
Dole hjad=20
something to do with it.<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530180714-25102002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530180714-25102002>We've seen Liddy up close on TV alot here =
lately=20
(right, non-Yukon?), and believe me, Viagra is the only hope for=20
Bob.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530180714-25102002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530180714-25102002>Sign me, dan sorry the negative ads are =
really getting=20
to me and taken over my mind becker</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:33:06 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:00:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I suspect we are warming up for Julip's annual skunk outing.
No 'scopes allowed. Let's play fair...
M
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:00:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I suspect we are warming up for Julip's annual skunk outing.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
No 'scopes allowed. Let's play fair...<BR>
<BR>
M</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:29:22 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: mitch wilds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Talking the Fifth
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Ken Follett wrote:
> Stern, being possibly one of those dudes that avoids keyboards because
> they too closely resemble typewriters, begged off that he does not
> have e-mail, but smiled and gave me his FAX number. Having said all
> that, you may be correct that there is no serious problem... though I
> d! id have visions, if not an hallucination, of sucking the great
> Stern into BP for a rowdy round of controversy and bloody noses.
Damn, I was looking forward to Stern delivering an e-lecture celebrating
B-P's fifth anniversary Monday. Cheers to the B-P family.
Non-Yukon Guy (also Non-Hula Guy)
--
F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
Restoration Branch
State Historic Preservation Office
919/733-6547
http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us
***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction of public
business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<p>Ken Follett wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Stern,
being possibly one of those dudes that avoids keyboards because they too
closely resemble typewriters, begged off that he does not have e-mail,
but smiled and gave me his FAX number. Having said all that, you may be
correct that there is no serious problem... though I d! id have visions,
if not an hallucination, of sucking the great Stern into BP for a rowdy
round of controversy and bloody noses.</font></font></font></blockquote>
Damn, I was looking forward to Stern delivering an e-lecture celebrating
B-P's fifth anniversary Monday. Cheers to the B-P family.
<br>
<br>Non-Yukon Guy (also Non-Hula Guy)
<br>
<br>
<p>--
<p>F. Mitchener Wilds, Senior Restoration Specialist
<br>Restoration Branch
<br>State Historic Preservation Office
<br>919/733-6547
<br><A HREF="http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us">http://www.hpo.dcr.state.nc.us</A>
<p>***My opinions may not be those of my agency.***
<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>E-mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction of public
business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br> </html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:41:48 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Ken,
Thanks for the Nixilite site. Do you have any experience with any of
the new edition sound or electronic devices? Or recommend anything that
is less ugly than the metal spikes?
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken
Follett
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:24:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite
http://www.nixalite.com/
Nixalite, which we have installed a lot of in the past, provides a
limited range of hardware. If you do not understand the birds to begin
with then the hardware may fail. Bird Barrier provides a very wide
selection of hardware but starts from an animal behaviour perspective.
][<en
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<DIV><SPAN class=681503914-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Ken,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=681503914-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks for the
Nixilite site. Do you have any experience with any of the new edition
sound or electronic devices? Or recommend anything that is less ugly than
the metal spikes?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=681503914-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=681503914-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only great work
is done in monkish silence [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 9:40
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Pidgeons<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a
message dated 10/25/2002 5:24:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">For the netting or spikes you could contact Nixalite
</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#746884 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">http://www.<B>nixalite</B>.com/ </FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Nixalite, which we have installed a lot of in the past,
provides a limited range of hardware. If you do not understand the birds to
begin with then the hardware may fail. Bird Barrier provides a very wide
selection of hardware but starts from an animal behaviour
perspective.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:50:24 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Ken,
I put in a call but haven't spoken with him yet. But I have a question
I have been meaning to ask. Can we lift the ban on posting photographs?
(The monkeys reminded me of pig habits.) Do we take a poll? I think
even John Leeke has given up his party line and juice can.
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken
Follett
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
In a message dated 10/25/2002 5:14:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons.
Leland,
The secret to bird control is to understand the birds first and the
building second.
As to netting, noise makers, small & large game hunters etc. the person
to contact is:
Jack Wagner
Bird Barrier
300 Calvert Avenue
Alexandria, VA 22301
800-662-4737
From pigeons to loose tigers. I suggest you start out by asking Jack
about his adventures with the monkees in the Japanese cherry trees. One
hell of an interesting fellow once he gets talking.
Next secret is to find a local pest control outfit that is smart enough
not to screw up heritage fabric. Sounds to me like you need a good net
job.
][<en
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<DIV><SPAN class=353314714-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Ken,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=353314714-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I put in a call
but haven't spoken with him yet. But I have a question I have been meaning
to ask. Can we lift the ban on posting photographs? (The monkeys
reminded me of pig habits.) Do we take a poll? I think even John
Leeke has given up his party line and juice can.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=353314714-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=353314714-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only great work
is done in monkish silence [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 9:37
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Pidgeons<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a
message dated 10/25/2002 5:14:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">I need to protect an ornate facade from pigeons.
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Leland,<BR><BR>The
secret to bird control is to understand the birds first and the building
second.<BR><BR>As to netting, noise makers, small & large game hunters
etc. the person to contact is:<BR><BR>Jack Wagner <BR>Bird Barrier<BR>300
Calvert Avenue<BR>Alexandria, VA 22301<BR>800-662-4737<BR><BR>From
pigeons to loose tigers. I suggest you start out by asking Jack about his
adventures with the monkees in the Japanese cherry trees. One hell of an
interesting fellow once he gets talking.<BR><BR>Next secret is to find a local
pest control outfit that is smart enough not to screw up heritage fabric.
Sounds to me like you need a good net job.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:57:42 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leland Torrence
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 10:42 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Pidgeons
>=20
>=20
> Ken,
> Thanks for the Nixilite site. Do you have any experience=20
> with any of the new edition sound or electronic devices? Or=20
> recommend anything that is less ugly than the metal spikes?=20
I hope it is not a hotel you are working with. I was on a flight next to
a woman returning home to Cincinnati from Raleigh, who remarked how
tired she was after working a trade show. Not because of the trade show,
but because of the fact that the pigeon-control sound-system of
blood-curdling raptor calls ran all night and could be heard through the
closed window and over the white noise of the room HVAC unit. Musta been
some kinda loud.=20
Do raptors fly at night? Do pigeons shit in the dark? Is this a
management problem?
_________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir., "Help me, Mr. Wizard! I don't=20
Raleigh Historic want to be here anymore!"
Districts Commission - Tooter the Turtle
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:55:59 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Clogged Mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_COVUNB/osk3KFL/nJAKKig)"
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I always thought the ][< looked like a beak or horn. chicKEN. The sign
and letter of the wild turkey.
Sign me, Meep Meep
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken
Follett
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Clogged Mailboxes
In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:15:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
clogs up everybody's mailbox even though most people are too afraid to
mention it because they don't want to hurt anyone's soft little feelings
I encourage that subscribers complain openly if they feel that their
mailboxes are clogged by BP. I want to know about it -- on channel or
off. It is a serious problem, and I HAVE been thinking of a long-term
solution and have been considering writing an article for the APT
Bulletin (since Quinque) on a web-based model for the histo presto
community to use in order to 1) communicate on a more wide subscriber
basis (a lot of people are afraid to get e-mail or to subscribe to an
active list) and 2) limit the hassle of overload of noise in a manner
to allow subscribers to more efficiently self-regulate their
noise:signal ratio. Any input along these lines, plus or minus, positive
or negative, will be greatly appreciated.
][<en
--Boundary_(ID_COVUNB/osk3KFL/nJAKKig)
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=572265314-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I always thought
the ][< looked like a beak or horn. chicKEN. The sign and letter
of the wild turkey. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=572265314-25102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Sign me, Meep
Meep</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only great work
is done in monkish silence [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ken Follett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 9:14
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Clogged Mailboxes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>In a message dated 10/24/2002 7:15:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">clogs up everybody's mailbox even though most people are too
afraid to mention it because they don't want to hurt anyone's soft little
feelings</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>I encourage that subscribers complain openly if they
feel that their mailboxes are clogged by BP. I want to know about it -- on
channel or off. It is a serious problem, and I HAVE been thinking of a
long-term solution and have been considering writing an article for the APT
Bulletin (since Quinque) on a web-based model for the histo presto community
to use in order to 1) communicate on a more wide subscriber basis (a lot of
people are afraid to get e-mail or to subscribe to an active list) and 2)
limit the hassle of overload of noise in a manner to allow subscribers
to more efficiently self-regulate their noise:signal ratio. Any input along
these lines, plus or minus, positive or negative, will be greatly
appreciated.<BR><BR>][<en</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:37:44 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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That's more like it.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">That's more like it. <BR>
<BR>
Ralph </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:39:39 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:56:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ralf can you give us an update on the Pinhead by-laws that deal with sexual
> harassment if they exist.
>
Sorry. They're secret. And I make them up as I go along.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:56:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ralf can you give us an update on the Pinhead by-laws that deal with sexual harassment if they exist.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Sorry. They're secret. And I make them up as I go along.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:48:38 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "S. Stokowski" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/02 9:19:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> A few years ago I was visiting Oxford and as I was walking through the
> "square" at Christ College, a maintenance man came out with a 22 cal.pellet
> gun and blasted a pigeon off a ledge. A little weird, but the guy was a
> good shot
Years ago, when I lived in Baltimore, the City hired two or three people to
shoot pigeons. If memory serves, they were using 22's with CB caps. These
are equivalent in power to pellet guns. It was the best solution to the
problem that they had tried, even though the killing only lasted a day or two
before a court order stopped it permanently. It seems that more influential
people are horrified by collected shot dead pigeons than by either pigeon
droppings, diseased birds, or pigeon road kill.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/02 9:19:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A few years ago I was visiting Oxford and as I was walking through the "square" at Christ College, a maintenance man came out with a 22 cal.pellet gun and blasted a pigeon off a ledge. A little weird, but the guy was a good shot</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Years ago, when I lived in Baltimore, the City hired two or three people to shoot pigeons. If memory serves, they were using 22's with CB caps. These are equivalent in power to pellet guns. It was the best solution to the problem that they had tried, even though the killing only lasted a day or two before a court order stopped it permanently. It seems that more influential people are horrified by collected shot dead pigeons than by either pigeon droppings, diseased birds, or pigeon road kill.<BR>
<BR>
Steve Stokowski<BR>
Stone Products Consultants<BR>
Building Products Microscopy<BR>
10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:59:48 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai 86
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:04:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It is obvious that we have never met in the flesh, as I am very much a
> lady and can do a hula that will make your eyes drop out. You will be
> missing something.
>
Dearest Spencer,
My loss is your gain. But between your generous offer and the giant flying
cockaroaches, I am not planning a visit to Hawaii anytime soon. Which is to
say, ever.
Just to show there are no hard feelings, should ever find yourself in the
Garden State, I will promise not to perform any sort of dance whatsoever.
Your modest, terpsichoreally-disadvantaged, and scared of cockaroaches
friend,
Ralph
Warmest personal etc.,
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:04:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It is obvious that we have never met in the flesh, as I am very much a<BR>
lady and can do a hula that will make your eyes drop out. You will be<BR>
missing something.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Dearest Spencer,<BR>
<BR>
My loss is your gain. But between your generous offer and the giant flying cockaroaches, I am not planning a visit to Hawaii anytime soon. Which is to say, ever. <BR>
<BR>
Just to show there are no hard feelings, should ever find yourself in the Garden State, I will promise not to perform any sort of dance whatsoever.<BR>
<BR>
Your modest, terpsichoreally-disadvantaged, and scared of cockaroaches friend,<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
Warmest personal etc.,<BR>
<BR>
Ralph </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:01:52 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Music Production
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Follett
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:43 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Music Production
>=20
>=20
> A truly established mechanic should be able to practice the=20
> best of their craft with any distraction blocked out in the=20
> background. Music or no music.=20
Being hearing impaired, this is where I find myself. It is not possible
for me to casually eavesdrop and glean information from the sonic
surroundings...no learning by osmosis in the aural realm for me. (On the
other hand, don't tell secrets from across the room where I can see
you...loose lips sink ships when flapped in front of lip readers.) So
what happens, sometimes to my eternal loss, is that I stop trying.
Energy is invested in actively engaging in direct communication; no
energy is invested in awareness of background noise because I gain very
little from it. As a result, I have very good powers of concentration
and not so good powers of general engagement.
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:06:42 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Are they just shy, or are they illegal?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:54:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> PS The poodle peed on the paper today, so I feel like God.
I thought this was supposed to be your daughter's stupid dog. Why doesn't
SHE feel like God?
Sign me,
Concerned Parent who Feeds the Fish
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:54:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">PS The poodle peed on the paper today, so I feel like God.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I thought this was supposed to be your daughter's stupid dog. Why doesn't SHE feel like God?<BR>
<BR>
Sign me, <BR>
<BR>
Concerned Parent who Feeds the Fish</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:08:38 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I know why I always confuse Mitch was "Yukon Guy"...
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:02:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
>
> >> Huh? (and you can quote me on that).
>>
> I'd rather quote Tolstoy.
>
>
How many palindromic three-letter word sentences did HE write?
Shakespeare
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:02:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Huh? (and you can quote me on that).<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I'd rather quote Tolstoy.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">How many palindromic three-letter word sentences did HE write?<BR>
<BR>
Shakespeare</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:11:36 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:19:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> A few years ago I was visiting Oxford and as I was walking through the
> "square" at Christ College, a maintenance man came out with a 22 cal.pellet
> gun and blasted a pigeon off a ledge. A little weird, but the guy was a
> good shot.
>
Ah, the progressive, bird-loving non-gun-toting Brits.
Pigeon Walter
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:19:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A few years ago I was visiting Oxford and as I was walking through the "square" at Christ College, a maintenance man came out with a 22 cal.pellet gun and blasted a pigeon off a ledge. A little weird, but the guy was a good shot. <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Ah, the progressive, bird-loving non-gun-toting Brits. <BR>
<BR>
Pigeon Walter</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:13:37 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Clogged Mailboxes
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:38:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sign me, Take My Post ... Please!
Nah. But we'll take your Daily News.
Ha Ha
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:38:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sign me, Take My Post ... Please! </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Nah. But we'll take your Daily News.<BR>
<BR>
Ha Ha</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:58:53 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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Leland,
From my talk with the famous Jack Wagner prior to the New York Athletic Club,
which had some serious pigeon probs, he recommended netting. The Club
chickened out on some of the netting, so where they didn't net an open loggia
about 9 floors up, they still have pigeons. We also installed horizontal
netting in some areas, which seems to be a nice place for the little boids to
sit (and shit), but at least the bastards don't nest below it, or fall
through it dead. The size of the netting has to be worked out, to be sure it
keeps out the size birds you have, but isn't too dense (I've forgotten why
that's a problem).
Brooklyn Boro Hall had an electric noise device (about the size of a coffee
can) installed in its cupola to keeep the winged rats out, which seemed to
have worked initially; whether it still does, I don't know. I can't find the
spec which had the name of this thing, but it's now 15 years old anyway.
Jack Wagner is the guy to talk to about all this stuff.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Leland,<BR>
<BR>
From my talk with the famous Jack Wagner prior to the New York Athletic Club, which had some serious pigeon probs, he recommended netting. The Club chickened out on some of the netting, so where they didn't net an open loggia about 9 floors up, they still have pigeons. We also installed horizontal netting in some areas, which seems to be a nice place for the little boids to sit (and shit), but at least the bastards don't nest below it, or fall through it dead. The size of the netting has to be worked out, to be sure it keeps out the size birds you have, but isn't too dense (I've forgotten why that's a problem).<BR>
<BR>
Brooklyn Boro Hall had an electric noise device (about the size of a coffee can) installed in its cupola to keeep the winged rats out, which seemed to have worked initially; whether it still does, I don't know. I can't find the spec which had the name of this thing, but it's now 15 years old anyway. Jack Wagner is the guy to talk to about all this stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:03:25 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lanai
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:13:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sounds like gas!
>
I didn't think of that.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:13:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sounds like gas!</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
I didn't think of that.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:19:21 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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By-laws? By-laws? We don't need no stinkin' laws!
- Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Walter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 11:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
In a message dated 10/24/2002 10:56:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Ralf can you give us an update on the Pinhead by-laws that deal with sexual
harassment if they exist.
Sorry. They're secret. And I make them up as I go along.
Ralph
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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=855451617-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>By-laws? By-laws? We don't need no stinkin'
laws!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=855451617-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=855451617-25102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>- Pam</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ralph Walter
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002 11:40
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Humbly apologizing petition...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a
message dated 10/24/2002 10:56:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="High Tower Text" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Ralf can you give us an update on the Pinhead by-laws that deal
with sexual harassment if they exist.<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="High Tower Text" color=#000000
size=3 FAMILY="SERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Sorry. They're secret. And I make them up
as I go along.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:25:06 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:00:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> The Village Idiot is a founding member of the BP Hunt Club.
The more accurate moniker would be the BP Pheasant Pokers, no?
V.I.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:00:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The Village Idiot is a founding member of the BP Hunt Club.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>The more accurate moniker would be the BP Pheasant Pokers, no?
<BR>
<BR>V.I.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:27:57 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 11:50:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It seems that more influential people are horrified by collected shot dead
> pigeons than by either pigeon droppings, diseased birds, or pigeon road
> kill.
>
Let them eat squab!
Twybil
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 11:50:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It seems that more influential people are horrified by collected shot dead pigeons than by either pigeon droppings, diseased birds, or pigeon road kill.
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Let them eat squab!
<BR>
<BR>Twybil</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:56:47 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:50:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It was the best solution to the problem that they had tried...
>
The next best solution is to shoot the people that feed the pigeons... but
that causes a lot of political havoc as well, besides, CNN would never stop
telling us about it.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:50:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It was the best solution to the problem that they had tried...<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The next best solution is to shoot the people that feed the pigeons... but that causes a lot of political havoc as well, besides, CNN would never stop telling us about it.<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:35:30 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Coating analysis interpretation
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We historic district staff in North Carolina are starting to see
requests in historic districts for a regionally advertised product,
"Spray-on Siding," from a company named Alvis Coatings, Inc. based in NC
("ALVIS Spray On Siding is a special blend of resins and polymers that
are designed to look like fresh paint but endure like siding."). It was
very hard to get any technical data on what exactly it is. They have now
posted some ASTM test data on their website. I am wondering if anyone on
the list would care to look at this info and interpret the numbers for
me. It would be greatly appreciated. Scroll to the bottom of the page
for the test data.
http://www.sprayonsiding.com/sprayon.html
The other question I can't get any info on is methods of surface
preparation and application. It could be the greatest thing since sliced
bread but if they have to blast the surface to get it to stick, that
would be bad. So I'll keep poking around on that issue.
Thanks,
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:31:33 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
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Without having read their bullshit, it sounds like snake oil to me. But I'll
be a good boy and check it out, and am confident that my initial assessment
will not be reversed.
There ARE no miracle products, no miracle solutions, no miracle nothing.
Except for my heart surgery, and I ain't kiddin.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Without having read their bullshit, it sounds like snake oil to me. But I'll be a good boy and check it out, and am confident that my initial assessment will not be reversed.<BR>
<BR>
There ARE no miracle products, no miracle solutions, no miracle nothing. Except for my heart surgery, and I ain't kiddin.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:46:26 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
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Now that I've read it, and I still think it's bullshit. Even though they say
(under FAQ section) it will protect your historic home forever. Hell, that's
better than the National register.
I wouldn't consider this shit without having seen several installations in
person, and talking to the owners. Seems to me that a coating 10x as thick
as paint is gonna obscure some historic detail. I dunno what the ASTM test
results mean, but wouldn't be surprised if they don't mean anything in this
case.
Another question is how long this fine high quality product has been in use.
What does the BBB know about it, or about the Duboynes (or whoever they
are)?
Stick with Sherbet Willies or Binty Moore.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Now that I've read it, and I still think it's bullshit. Even though they say (under FAQ section) it will protect your historic home forever. Hell, that's better than the National register. <BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't consider this shit without having seen several installations in person, and talking to the owners. Seems to me that a coating 10x as thick as paint is gonna obscure some historic detail. I dunno what the ASTM test results mean, but wouldn't be surprised if they don't mean anything in this case.<BR>
<BR>
Another question is how long this fine high quality product has been in use. What does the BBB know about it, or about the Duboynes (or whoever they are)?<BR>
<BR>
Stick with Sherbet Willies or Binty Moore.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:40:13 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpolination
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:47:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> . Seems to me that a coating 10x as thick as paint is gonna obscure some
> historic detail
Which sure as hell means it ain't reversible neither - except when it blows
off in one sheet in a hurricane and kills your neighbor.
V.I.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 8:47:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. Seems to me that a coating 10x as thick as paint is gonna obscure some historic detail</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Which sure as hell means it ain't reversible neither - except when it blows off in one sheet in a hurricane and kills your neighbor.
<BR>
<BR>V.I.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:00:39 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpolinearization
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:41:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Which sure as hell means it ain't reversible neither - except when it blows
> off in one sheet in a hurricane and kills your neighbor.
>
Let's not be so goddam negative all the time, shall we? Maybe the paint will
anchor the house to the ground, or just weigh it down so much that it CAN'T
blow away. Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?
Just think, they could put the Simpson Strong Tie people out of business.
Instead of having carpenters banging their thumbs installing non-breathable
joist hangers, you'd have highly-skilled mechanics spray-painting framing
members into place.
Just because some narrow-minded hide-bound moss-backed traditionalist in the
Big City never heard of something, doesn't mean it's bad.
The New Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 9:41:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Which sure as hell means it ain't reversible neither - except when it blows off in one sheet in a hurricane and kills your neighbor. <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Let's not be so goddam negative all the time, shall we? Maybe the paint will anchor the house to the ground, or just weigh it down so much that it CAN'T blow away. Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing? <BR>
<BR>
Just think, they could put the Simpson Strong Tie people out of business. Instead of having carpenters banging their thumbs installing non-breathable joist hangers, you'd have highly-skilled mechanics spray-painting framing members into place.<BR>
<BR>
Just because some narrow-minded hide-bound moss-backed traditionalist in the Big City never heard of something, doesn't mean it's bad.<BR>
<BR>
The New Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:32:06 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpolinearization
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> The New Ralph
Yeah, I'll ba-leeve it when I see it Love ya, Ralphie.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The New Ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Yeah, I'll ba-leeve it when I see it Love ya, Ralphie.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:48:43 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect
Subject: The New Ralph
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The New Ralph...kinda like a New Democrat...New Economy...maybe a little
sketicism about NEW is a good thing.
-jc
Mary Krugman wrote:
> In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>> The New Ralph
>
> Yeah, I'll ba-leeve it when I see it Love ya, Ralphie.
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The New Ralph...kinda like a New Democrat...New Economy...maybe a little
sketicism about NEW is a good thing.
<br>-jc
<p>Mary Krugman wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>In a message
dated 10/25/2002 10:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>The
New Ralph</font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Yeah, I'll ba-leeve
it when I see it Love ya, Ralphie.</font></font></font></blockquote>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:19:50 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Got a call from Peter in Australia... (don't bother Ralph,
it's a one-liner.)
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...not the one where he was hanging 100 feet up alongside a red rock cliff
over Sydney harbor, spitting in the updraft and watching it zip up another 80
feet or so.
This call was a week before, when he was telling me about the neat British
guys he was rooming with, and how he wanted to hang out with them after the
course was over and everybody went back to England.
Me: Oh, are you guys going back on the same flight.
Peter: "Well, not exactly, Dad. I mean, they're not, actually, really,
going back. They kind of like it here in Australia."
Me: Oh! Umm, they're not going back. [Sort of dawns on me.] Well,
what are they going to do?
Peter: Well, they're, uh, we're going to get a job someplace.
Me: Wow, great, uh, like what kind of job?
Peter: Well, actually, one of the guys, his father owns a company that has
factories here. Yeah, it's a factory.
Me: Oh, what kind of factory? Like, boxes, or TVs or what?
Peter: Well, it's sort a special kind of factory. {Pause.] Actually, it's
a sort of a distillery. Actually, it's a whiskey distillery.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">...not the one where he was hanging 100 feet up alongside a red rock cliff over Sydney harbor, spitting in the updraft and watching it zip up another 80 feet or so.<BR>
<BR>
This call was a week before, when he was telling me about the neat British guys he was rooming with, and how he wanted to hang out with them after the course was over and everybody went back to England.<BR>
<BR>
Me: Oh, are you guys going back on the same flight.<BR>
Peter: "Well, not exactly, Dad. I mean, they're not, actually, really, going back. They kind of like it here in Australia."<BR>
Me: Oh! Umm, they're not going back. [Sort of dawns on me.] Well, what are they going to do? <BR>
Peter: Well, they're, uh, we're going to get a job someplace.<BR>
Me: Wow, great, uh, like what kind of job?<BR>
Peter: Well, actually, one of the guys, his father owns a company that has factories here. Yeah, it's a factory.<BR>
Me: Oh, what kind of factory? Like, boxes, or TVs or what?<BR>
Peter: Well, it's sort a special kind of factory. {Pause.] Actually, it's a sort of a distillery. Actually, it's a whiskey distillery. </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:32:46 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: First Monday or More
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http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_8/spencer/index.html
The Potential of the Internet for Non-Profit Organizations by Tessa Spencer
from First Monday, Peer Reviewed Journal on the Internet
An interesting article in many respects, relevant in particular to BP I
think here:
"All virtual communities need to attract and keep people involved in the
community's purpose. However, as a relatively new phenomenon, there is
only a small body of literature that seeks to understand how communities
form and how they can be sustained in a form that meets the needs of
their members.
Case studies and observations indicate that although online communities
will evolve according to the needs of members they also require a host,
co-ordinator or moderator. Cotherel and Williams (1999) studied a number
of different online communities to determine how they form and grow.
Although the main focus was communities within commercial organizations,
it was determined that viable communities evolved where effort was
directed at activities to increase participation, avoid controlling
communication and encourage off-site communication via e-mail, etc. The
size of the group was less important than the level of participation and
memTessa Spencerbers being willing to encourage others and guide the
discussion."
][<en
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<br>
<a href="http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_8/spencer/index.html">http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_8/spencer/index.html</a>
<br>
<br>
<i>The Potential of the Internet for Non-Profit Organizations</i> by Tessa
Spencer<br>
from <i>First Monday, Peer Reviewed Journal on the Internet</i><br>
<br>
An interesting article in many respects, relevant in particular to BP I think
here:<br>
<br>
<p>"All virtual communities need to attract and keep people involved in the
community's purpose. However, as a relatively new phenomenon, there is only
a small body of literature that seeks to understand how communities form and
how they can be sustained in a form that meets the needs of their members.</p>
<p>Case studies and observations indicate that although online communities
will evolve according to the needs of members they also require a host, co-ordinator
or moderator. Cotherel and Williams (1999) studied a number of different online
communities to determine how they form and grow. Although the main focus
was communities within commercial organizations, it was determined that viable
communities evolved where effort was directed at activities to increase participation,
avoid controlling communication and encourage off-site communication via
e-mail, etc. The size of the group was less important than the level of participation
and memTessa Spencerbers being willing to encourage others and guide the
discussion."</p>
<p>][<en<br>
</p>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:17:41 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
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Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
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From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tramp Books
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Excerpt from THE STORY OF THE MORMONS: FROM THE DATE OF THEIR ORIGIN TO THE
YEAR 1901 by WILLIAM ALEXANDER LINN
The Smiths are said to have been of Scotch ancestry. It was the
mother, however, who exercised the larger influence on her son's
life, and she has left very minute details of her own and her
father's family.* Her father, Solomon Mack, was a native of Lyme,
Connecticut. The daughter Lucy, who became Mrs. Joseph Smith,
Sr., was born in Gilsum, Cheshire County, New Hampshire, on July
8, 1776. Mr. Mack was remembered as a feeble old man, who rode
around the country on horseback, using a woman's saddle, and
selling his own autobiography. The "tramp" of those early days
often offered an autobiography, or what passed for one, and, as
books were then rare, if he could say that it contained an
account of actual adventures in the recent wars, he was certain
to find purchasers.
* "Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith and his Progenitors for
Many Generations," Lucy Smith.
One of the few copies of this book in existence lies before me.
It was printed at the author's expense about the year 1810. It is
wholly without interest as a narrative, telling of the poverty of
his parents, how he was bound, when four years old, to a farmer
who gave him no education and worked him like a slave; gives some
of his experiences in the campaigns against the French and
Indians in northern New York and in the war of the Revolution,
when he was in turn teamster, sutler, and privateer; describes
with minute detail many ordinary illnesses and accidents that
befell him; and closes with a recital of his religious awakening,
which was deferred until his seventy-sixth year, while he was
suffering with rheumatism. At that time it seemed to him that he
several times "saw a bright light in a dark night," and thought
he heard a voice calling to him. Twenty-two of the forty-eight
duodecimo pages that the book contains are devoted to hymns
"composed," the title-page says, "on the death of several of his
relatives," not all by himself. One of these may be quoted
entire:--
"My friends, I am on the ocean, So sweetly do I sail; Jesus is my
portion, He's given me a pleasant gale.
"The bruises sore, In harbor soon I'll be, And see my redeemer
there That died for you and me."
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<pre>Excerpt from THE STORY OF THE MORMONS: FROM THE DATE OF THEIR ORIGIN TO THE
YEAR 1901 by WILLIAM ALEXANDER LINN <br><br>The Smiths are said to have been of Scotch ancestry. It was the<br>mother, however, who exercised the larger influence on her son's<br>life, and she has left very minute details of her own and her<br>father's family.* Her father, Solomon Mack, was a native of Lyme,<br>Connecticut. The daughter Lucy, who became Mrs. Joseph Smith,<br>Sr., was born in Gilsum, Cheshire County, New Hampshire, on July<br>8, 1776. Mr. Mack was remembered as a feeble old man, who rode<br>around the country on horseback, using a woman's saddle, and<br>selling his own autobiography. <b>The "tramp" of those early days<br>often offered an autobiography, or what passed for one, and, as<br>books were then rare, if he could say that it contained an<br>account of actual adventures in the recent wars, he was certain<br>to find purchasers.</b><br><br>* "Biographical Sketches of Joseph S
mith and his Progenitors for<br>Many Generations," Lucy Smith.<br><br>One of the few copies of this book in existence lies before me.<br>It was printed at the author's expense about the year 1810. It is<br>wholly without interest as a narrative, telling of the poverty of<br>his parents, how he was bound, when four years old, to a farmer<br>who gave him no education and worked him like a slave; gives some<br>of his experiences in the campaigns against the French and<br>Indians in northern New York and in the war of the Revolution,<br>when he was in turn teamster, sutler, and privateer; describes<br>with minute detail many ordinary illnesses and accidents that<br>befell him; and closes with a recital of his religious awakening,<br>which was deferred until his seventy-sixth year, while he was<br>suffering with rheumatism. At that time it seemed to him that he<br>several times "saw a bright light in a dark night," and thought<br>he heard a voice calling to him. Twenty-two of the
forty-eight<br>duodecimo pages that the book contains are devoted to hymns<br>"composed," the title-page says, "on the death of several of his<br>relatives," not all by himself. One of these may be quoted<br>entire:--<br><br>"My friends, I am on the ocean, So sweetly do I sail; Jesus is my<br>portion, He's given me a pleasant gale.<br><br>"The bruises sore, In harbor soon I'll be, And see my redeemer<br>there That died for you and me."</pre>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:21:04 -0400
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Dan,
I have no experience with this particular product, however I looked at
the site and the descriptions. This looks very much like a typical
elastomeric or LBC (Lead Barrier Compound). My best luck with any of
these is on masonry surfaces (block and stucco), however, condition of
the substrate is everything and verification of proper thickness of
application is very difficult. We used FiberLock a number of times in
the middle, late nineties. It is similar in finished thickness and
elasticity and is applicable by spraying, The product is warranteed for
twenty years. It holds small deteriorated substrates well (good
bubbles, Guinness Book blisters) and rips or peels like a skin where
moisture has been an issue. The thickness poses other problems. You
need a carpenter to refit all the friction surfaces (windows, doors) so
that after application the fit is right. It will hide your problems
longer, but ask the representative what to do when you have to repaint
if for some reason it does not last forever as they claim. In general,
I think it is probably a poor choice for wood and needs a careful look
for historic work as it is not very reversible.
Let's hear from MikE on this. By the way, Edison Coatings
products have been used on an almost finished terra cotta fa=E7ade
restoration in (you guessed it, New Haven!) and look fabulous. The
color match and glazed look are the best I have seen to date.
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Becker,
Dan
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Coating analysis interpretation
We historic district staff in North Carolina are starting to see
requests in historic districts for a regionally advertised product,
"Spray-on Siding," from a company named Alvis Coatings, Inc. based in NC
("ALVIS Spray On Siding is a special blend of resins and polymers that
are designed to look like fresh paint but endure like siding."). It was
very hard to get any technical data on what exactly it is. They have now
posted some ASTM test data on their website. I am wondering if anyone on
the list would care to look at this info and interpret the numbers for
me. It would be greatly appreciated. Scroll to the bottom of the page
for the test data.
http://www.sprayonsiding.com/sprayon.html
The other question I can't get any info on is methods of surface
preparation and application. It could be the greatest thing since sliced
bread but if they have to blast the surface to get it to stick, that
would be bad. So I'll keep poking around on that issue.
Thanks,
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:26:15 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpolinearization
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >> The New Ralph
>
> Yeah, I'll ba-leeve it when I see it
Youse Joisey Goils are pretty sharp.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The New Ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Yeah, I'll ba-leeve it when I see it </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Youse Joisey Goils are pretty sharp.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:06:29 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OK, I appoint myself host ... Rule #1:
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In a message dated 10/26/02 5:41:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Case studies and observations indicate that although online communities will
> evolve according to the needs of members they also require a host,
> co-ordinator or moderator.
When making multiple one-liner responses in a single day, group all the
one-liners together, on a single piece of email.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/26/02 5:41:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Case studies and observations indicate that although online communities will evolve according to the needs of members they also require a host, co-ordinator or moderator. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
When making multiple one-liner responses in a single day, group all the one-liners together, on a single piece of email.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:11:40 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Rules #2 & 3: [More Rules later]
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#2 Make sure the header refers to what you are posting about, and not some
old post from Theodore Dreiser.
#3 Compress your one-liner posts by reducing the "quote header" ["In a
message dated..."] to a single line by eliminating extraneous stuff like the
time, continent, etc. And eliminate double-spacing, to the extent possible.
This is so that readers do not have to scroll down in your message to read
that your one-liner about how someone is an idiot for using the "inches" sign
instead of the "feet" sign.
Sign me, Likes Trains Which Run On Time
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">#2 Make sure the header refers to what you are posting about, and not some old post from Theodore Dreiser.<BR>
<BR>
#3 Compress your one-liner posts by reducing the "quote header" ["In a message dated..."] to a single line by eliminating extraneous stuff like the time, continent, etc. And eliminate double-spacing, to the extent possible. This is so that readers do not have to scroll down in your message to read that your one-liner about how someone is an idiot for using the "inches" sign instead of the "feet" sign.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me, Likes Trains Which Run On Time</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:07:21 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect
Subject: Re: First Monday or More
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It might be worth posting this on Preservation-L. (Hold on...secondary
contrary thought forming....). Maybe Preservation-L is not seeking to
be a "community". Perhaps it is a "resource".
Sometimes the inside of my head is a noisey place...working in monkish
silence is a lot like perfection...sought, but rarely achieved.
-jc
Gabriel Orgrease wrote:
>
> http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_8/spencer/index.html
>
> The Potential of the Internet for Non-Profit Organizations by Tessa
> Spencer
> from First Monday, Peer Reviewed Journal on the Internet
>
> An interesting article in many respects, relevant in particular to BP
> I think here:
>
>
> "All virtual communities need to attract and keep people involved in
> the community's purpose. However, as a relatively new phenomenon,
> there is only a small body of literature that seeks to understand how
> communities form and how they can be sustained in a form that meets
> the needs of their members.
>
> Case studies and observations indicate that although online
> communities will evolve according to the needs of members they also
> require a host, co-ordinator or moderator. Cotherel and Williams
> (1999) studied a number of different online communities to determine
> how they form and grow. Although the main focus was communities within
> commercial organizations, it was determined that viable communities
> evolved where effort was directed at activities to increase
> participation, avoid controlling communication and encourage off-site
> communication via e-mail, etc. The size of the group was less
> important than the level of participation and memTessa Spencerbers
> being willing to encourage others and guide the discussion."
>
> ][<en
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<html>
It might be worth posting this on Preservation-L. (Hold on...secondary
contrary thought forming....). Maybe Preservation-L is not seeking
to be a "community". Perhaps it is a "resource".
<p>Sometimes the inside of my head is a noisey place...working in monkish
silence is a lot like perfection...sought, but rarely achieved.
<p>-jc
<p>Gabriel Orgrease wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br><a href="http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_8/spencer/index.html">http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_8/spencer/index.html</a>
<p><i>The Potential of the Internet for Non-Profit Organizations</i> by
Tessa Spencer
<br>from <i>First Monday, Peer Reviewed Journal on the Internet</i>
<p>An interesting article in many respects, relevant in particular to BP
I think here:
<br>
<p>"All virtual communities need to attract and keep people involved in
the community's purpose. However, as a relatively new phenomenon, there
is only a small body of literature that seeks to understand how communities
form and how they can be sustained in a form that meets the needs of their
members.
<p>Case studies and observations indicate that although online communities
will evolve according to the needs of members they also require a host,
co-ordinator or moderator. Cotherel and Williams (1999) studied a number
of different online communities to determine how they form and grow. Although
the main focus was communities within commercial organizations, it was
determined that viable communities evolved where effort was directed at
activities to increase participation, avoid controlling communication and
encourage off-site communication via e-mail, etc. The size of the group
was less important than the level of participation and memTessa Spencerbers
being willing to encourage others and guide the discussion."
<p>][<en</blockquote>
</html>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:44:05 EDT
Reply-To: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis --- What, exactly,
is so good about sliced bread?
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In a message dated 10/25/02, [log in to unmask] writes:
> It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:51:47 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: only great work is done in monkish silence
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
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> I think it is probably a poor choice for wood and needs a careful
look
> for historic work as it is not very reversible.
> Let's hear from MikE on this. By the way, Edison Coatings
> products have been used on an almost finished terra cotta façade
> restoration in (you guessed it, New Haven!) and look fabulous. The
> color match and glazed look are the best I have seen to date.
> Best,
> Leland
>
Thank you, Leland, on both counts.
I looked over the web page quickly, and while I can admire Ralph's
hair trigger conclusion that this is bullshit for having been arrived
at even before reading the thing, and I respect the skepticism it
represents, there is always a possibility that some truly brilliant
bath-tub formulator has got something of merit by the tail and just
stinks at technical communication (not rare in us technical types). So
trying to keep an open mind, here are my objections to what's there:
1. The data is inadequate. You can't just give an ASTM test or
standard number and then report something like "34" without any units.
34 what? Perms? Metric perms? g/sq.cm./24hrs? squirrel farts? Giving
them the benefit of the doubt, however, let's assume these are perms,
and this is a pretty good rating for a thick paint. We still haven't
been shown that this is anything unusual.
2. I hate it when people call something by a different name just to
make it sound like something it isn't. Like "Synthetic Stucco" -- It
isn't stucco at all - - it's latex paint with a whole bunch of sand
mixed into it. But synthetic stucco (I will leave name brand
defamation to Ralph) sounds so much better than sand paint. What are
you using for the walls of my new 20 million dollar corporate office
building? "Synthetic stucco" sounds good. "Styrofoam, a little thin
set cement and sand paint" doesn't sound too good. A client might have
undesireable thoughts like "maybe this could fall apart after the
checks clear".
The site gives us nothing to indicate that this liquid siding is
anything other than paint. Thick paint. Paint you apply at a low
coverage rate so it ends up thicker than plain old paint.
3. When someone is hard-Selling the guarantee it's often a good
indication that you need a better one than you're going to get. There
are no lifetime guarantees. I laughed at a competitor for saying in a
public forum that they'll guarantee their product "for at least for
100 years". (I laugh at some of them for offering guarantees at all.)
This is an old game: Give me your money now. I will give you something
that costs very little and charge you a lot for it. But don't worry
that it's expensive, you have a guarantee!" And when you have a
problem in 5 or 10 or 15 years, OOPS! Where did they go?
Let's face it, good acrylic latex paint, properly installed, can last
10 years or more. So these guys can rake it in for a few years and
make a buck or two.
The alternative interpretation is that these guys are dumb salespeople
who actually swallow their own line of baloney. It's thick! It's
acrylic (presumably) and that is a very stable material! It can last
forever!
The only place it is likely to last forever is in the landfills into
it will undoubtedly be deposited within a period of time far shorter
than the average lifetime.
I guess I could have saved us all a lot of words and effort. OK,
Ralph, I'm with you on this one. Sounds like bullshit.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:05:59 -0400
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Ralph,
I did talk to Jack Wagner yesterday. He certainly is a friendly and
knowledgeable source. (Ken, he also was quite eager to talk about the
monkeys. In fact he had just gotten a call from Japan this week.) He
asked me to send a photo of the building with some dimensions and he
would make recommendations. However, for pigeons it seems the only 100%
solution is the horizontal wiring and netting as you mention. He says,
sound does work on pigeons: "You can light a firecracker in their ass
and they'll come back if they can still sit."
Best,
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: only great work is done in monkish silence
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ralph
Walter
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
Leland,
From my talk with the famous Jack Wagner prior to the New York Athletic
Club, which had some serious pigeon probs, he recommended netting. The
Club chickened out on some of the netting, so where they didn't net an
open loggia about 9 floors up, they still have pigeons. We also
installed horizontal netting in some areas, which seems to be a nice
place for the little boids to sit (and shit), but at least the bastards
don't nest below it, or fall through it dead. The size of the netting
has to be worked out, to be sure it keeps out the size birds you have,
but isn't too dense (I've forgotten why that's a problem).
Brooklyn Boro Hall had an electric noise device (about the size of a
coffee can) installed in its cupola to keeep the winged rats out, which
seemed to have worked initially; whether it still does, I don't know. I
can't find the spec which had the name of this thing, but it's now 15
years old anyway. Jack Wagner is the guy to talk to about all this
stuff.
Ralph
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=040082612-26102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Ralph,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=040082612-26102002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I did talk to
Jack Wagner yesterday. He certainly is a friendly and knowledgeable
source. (Ken, he also was quite eager to talk about the monkeys. In
fact he had just gotten a call from Japan this week.) He asked me to send
a photo of the building with some dimensions and he would make
recommendations. However, for pigeons it seems the only 100% solution is
the horizontal wiring and netting as you mention. He says, sound does work
on pigeons: "You can light a firecracker in their ass and they'll
come back if they can still sit."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=040082612-26102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=040082612-26102002><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Leland</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> only great work
is done in monkish silence [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ralph Walter<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 25, 2002
12:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Pidgeons<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0
face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Leland,<BR><BR>From my talk with the
famous Jack Wagner prior to the New York Athletic Club, which had some serious
pigeon probs, he recommended netting. The Club chickened out on some of
the netting, so where they didn't net an open loggia about 9 floors up, they
still have pigeons. We also installed horizontal netting in some areas, which
seems to be a nice place for the little boids to sit (and shit), but at least
the bastards don't nest below it, or fall through it dead. The size of
the netting has to be worked out, to be sure it keeps out the size birds you
have, but isn't too dense (I've forgotten why that's a
problem).<BR><BR>Brooklyn Boro Hall had an electric noise device (about the
size of a coffee can) installed in its cupola to keeep the winged rats out,
which seemed to have worked initially; whether it still does, I don't
know. I can't find the spec which had the name of this thing, but it's
now 15 years old anyway. Jack Wagner is the guy to talk to about all
this stuff.<BR><BR>Ralph</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:51:13 -0400
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pigeons
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In a message dated 10/26/2002 4:05:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> "You can light a firecracker in their ass and they'll come
> back if they can still sit."
Leland,
You can't say they don't make up in persistence what they lack in intellect.
Ralph
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:14:39 EDT
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pssssssst! Ooooops.
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Hey, Guys!
Guess what? Spencer is a girl!
Ix-nay on the earing-sway and irty-day okes-jay.
Sign me,
Chastened Budnoweiser
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hey, Guys! <BR>
<BR>
Guess what? Spencer is a girl! <BR>
<BR>
Ix-nay on the earing-sway and irty-day okes-jay.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
Chastened Budnoweiser</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:23:12 EDT
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
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From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ha! Ralph, hoist to his own petard!!! Boom!
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cost to the spammer is usually under five dollars. To be effective,
a
counter-measure must neutralize the spam within the first five
minutes.
Consequently, there is no time for all the LISTSERV servers to compare
notes
with each other before acting, and some legitimate postings may be
intercepted
erroneously. If this is the case, simply forward this message back to the
list
with an explanatory note.
--part1_a4.2e800d44.2aec9a00_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Received by the list managers.....<BR>
<BR>
Subj: <B>BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS: possible spam from [log in to unmask] </B><BR>
Date: 10/26/02 9:08:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time <BR>
From: <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>
To: <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>, <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>, <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>, <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>
<BR>
The following message was submitted by [log in to unmask] to the<BR>
BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS list at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU. It is being forwarded to you for verification because the message has been identified as a possible "spam", that is, an advertisement or other unsolicited material sent to large numbers of mailing lists with no consideration for whether or not the material is appropriate for the lists it is being sent to. A single "spam" can result in<BR>
the delivery of millions of unwanted e-mail messages worldwide, costing the<BR>
victims and service providers a total of several hundred thousand dollars. The<BR>
cost to the spammer is usually under five dollars. To be effective, a<BR>
counter-measure must neutralize the spam within the first five minutes.<BR>
Consequently, there is no time for all the LISTSERV servers to compare notes<BR>
with each other before acting, and some legitimate postings may be intercepted<BR>
erroneously. If this is the case, simply forward this message back to the list<BR>
with an explanatory note.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 22:29:13 EDT
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ix-Nay on the Am-Spay
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_89.201e0e18.2aeca979_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/26/2002 9:23:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> A single "spam" can result in the delivery of millions of unwanted e-mail
> messages worldwide, costing the victims and service providers a total of
> several hundred thousand dollars. That's several hundred thousand EACH!
> Consider it a contribution in lieu of dues. The cost to the spammer is
> usually under five dollars. What, you think I used the high-priced
> email? Hahaha (laughing all the way to the bank; it's a short trip).
Ralph [note omission of double space before signature line]
--part1_89.201e0e18.2aeca979_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 10/26/2002 9:23:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></B>A single "spam" can result in the delivery of millions of unwanted e-mail messages worldwide, costing the victims and service providers a total of several hundred thousand dollars. <B>That's several hundred thousand EACH!</B> <B>Consider it a contribution in lieu of dues. </B>The cost to the spammer is usually under five dollars. <B>What, you think I used the high-priced email? Hahaha (laughing all the way to the bank; it's a short trip). </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Ralph [note omission of double space before signature line]</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:50:10 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
In-Reply-To: <073658B0FB07D4118C03009027303FC7023EB3EE@MCCHIEX>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Uh oh, that's where they went then. Every place they are gone is where my
Mom had carpeting. She loved it, I hate it. Ruth
At 7:15 AM -0500 10/24/02, Score, Robert wrote:
If they are not there any more,they probably went into the dumpster. I have
found that thresholds have often been removed during previous flooring
treatmnets, such as carpeting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ruth Barton [<mailto:[log in to unmask]>mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 11:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
We have pine thresholds--the ones that are left. I'm sure my ancestors
used what was available and easy to work. With all the doors here there
were lots of thresholds. Does anybody know where my thresholds would have
gone and why? Ruth
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:48:33 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Got a call from Peter in Australia... (don't bother Ralph,
it's a one-lin...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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So, he wants to be a distillery worker, eh? It turned out OK for the
Bronfmans and the Kennedys. Well, sort of.
Whatever happened to rafting down the mighty Mississipp'? I suppose it
would've been worse, and God only knows how.
To paraphrase that great philosopher (and widely admired Joisey Boy, I might
add) Ant'ny Soprano, Keep your friends close, your children closer, and your
enemas in a bottle.
Ralph
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">So, he wants to be a distillery worker, eh? It turned out OK for the Bronfmans and the Kennedys. Well, sort of.<BR>
<BR>
Whatever happened to rafting down the mighty Mississipp'? I suppose it would've been worse, and God only knows how.<BR>
<BR>
To paraphrase that great philosopher (and widely admired Joisey Boy, I might add) Ant'ny Soprano, Keep your friends close, your children closer, and your enemas in a bottle. <BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:48:03 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_125.1900415c.2aede343_boundary"
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I've seen this advertised here also.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0">I've seen this advertised here also.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:59:05 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d.d0e6a9.2aede5d9_boundary"
--part1_d.d0e6a9.2aede5d9_boundary
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I guess I could have saved us all a lot of words and effort. OK,
Ralph, I'm with you on this one. Sounds like bullshit.
Hot damn it's official, it's bullshit!
Steve
--part1_d.d0e6a9.2aede5d9_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I guess I could have saved us all a lot of words and effort. OK,<BR>
Ralph, I'm with you on this one. Sounds like bullshit.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BR>
Hot damn it's official, it's bullshit!<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:29:00 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_11.f6bc97.2aedfaec_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/27/2002 7:59:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Hot damn it's official, it's bullshit!
>
Each of you can send in 10% of what you woulda spent on this fine high
quality product to Michael and me (special discount: 5% to each of us, if you
act NOW), for having saved you all the money you woulda spent otherwise.
For an extra $10, we'll give you a list of bridges you CANNOT buy, no matter
what anybody tells you.
Ralph
--part1_11.f6bc97.2aedfaec_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/27/2002 7:59:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hot damn it's official, it's bullshit!<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="High Tower Text" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Each of you can send in 10% of what you woulda spent on this fine high quality product to Michael and me (special discount: 5% to each of us, if you act NOW), for having saved you all the money you woulda spent otherwise. <BR>
<BR>
For an extra $10, we'll give you a list of bridges you CANNOT buy, no matter what anybody tells you.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:56:47 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis --- What, exactly,
is so good about sliced bread?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Met History
> To: [log in to unmask]
> What, exactly, is so good about sliced bread?
Less crumbs for the cockaroaches.=20
Sign me, dan who has a rule to add to the list of rules which is to use
plain text for email which is a plain text medium and save the html crap
for the world wide web where it belongs becker
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:13:22 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ralph Walter
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:46 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> I wouldn't consider this shit without having seen several=20
> installations in person, and talking to the owners. Seems to=20
> me that a coating 10x as thick as paint is gonna obscure some=20
> historic detail.=20
I've seen two installations: one on a standard compressed-paper-sided
recent home, and one historic home. The sheen is a soft satin, very
similar to what I remember about linseed oil paint. The thickness of the
coating is not so excessive as to obscure detail. In all candor, it
looks pretty much just like paint. I don't disqualify it on appearance
at all. The workmanship of application was pretty good too.
What I worry about, and what y'all seem to be saying is that we don't
really know what "a special blend of resins and polymers" is. And you
wouldn't choose to experiment with "pop chemistry" on your own homes in
the same way you wouldn't choose to be the first on your block to buy
contact lenses with [insert your favorite college or pro sports team]
logos at the corner convenience mart, or to get stylish gold cladding
placed on your teeth. Am I hearing that right?
__________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! Now
Raleigh Historic I have a brain!"
Districts Commission - Scarecrow
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678=20
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:18:46 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leland Torrence
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 8:21 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> Dan,
> I have no experience with this particular product, however I=20
> looked at the site and the descriptions. This looks very=20
> much like a typical elastomeric or LBC (Lead Barrier=20
> Compound). =20
Nope, it's not an elastomeric acrylic compound. I've got that stuff on
my metal roof and front porch floor. It's not the acrylic latex lead
encapsulation stuff either, I don't believe. It's something different,
based admittedly only on my visual inspection.=20
________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Dagnabit Muskie, who dropped
Raleigh Historic the cotton pickin' curtain on
Districts Commission my toe bone?" =20
[log in to unmask] - Deputy Dawg
919/890-3678
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:27:16 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: only great work is done in monkish silence=20
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf=20
> Of Leland Torrence
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 8:21 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> Dan,
> I have no experience with this particular product, however I=20
> looked at the site and the descriptions. This looks very=20
> much like a typical elastomeric or LBC (Lead Barrier=20
> Compound). My best luck with any of these is on masonry=20
> surfaces (block and stucco), however, condition of the=20
> substrate is everything and verification of proper thickness=20
> of application is very difficult. We used FiberLock a number=20
> of times in the middle, late nineties. It is similar in=20
> finished thickness and elasticity and is applicable by=20
> spraying, The product is warranteed for twenty years. It=20
> holds small deteriorated substrates well (good bubbles,=20
> Guinness Book blisters) and rips or peels like a skin where=20
> moisture has been an issue. The thickness poses other=20
> problems. You need a carpenter to refit all the friction=20
> surfaces (windows, doors) so that after application the fit=20
> is right. It will hide your problems longer, but ask the=20
> representative what to do when you have to repaint if for=20
> some reason it does not last forever as they claim. In=20
> general, I think it is probably a poor choice for wood and=20
> needs a careful look for historic work as it is not very reversible.
> Let's hear from MikE on this. By the way, Edison=20
> Coatings products have been used on an almost finished terra=20
> cotta fa=E7ade restoration in (you guessed it, New Haven!) and=20
> look fabulous. The color match and glazed look are the best=20
> I have seen to date. Best, Leland
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: only great work is done in monkish silence=20
> [mailto:BULLAMANKA-> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf=20
> Of Becker, Dan
>=20
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:36 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> We historic district staff in North Carolina are starting to=20
> see requests in historic districts for a regionally=20
> advertised product, "Spray-on Siding," from a company named=20
> Alvis Coatings, Inc. based in NC ("ALVIS Spray On Siding is a=20
> special blend of resins and polymers that are designed to=20
> look like fresh paint but endure like siding."). It was very=20
> hard to get any technical data on what exactly it is. They=20
> have now posted some ASTM test data on their website. I am=20
> wondering if anyone on the list would care to look at this=20
> info and interpret the numbers for me. It would be greatly=20
> appreciated. Scroll to the bottom of the page for the test data.
>=20
http://www.sprayonsiding.com/sprayon.html
The other question I can't get any info on is methods of surface =
preparation and application. It could be the greatest thing since sliced =
bread but if they have to blast the surface to get it to stick, that =
would be bad. So I'll keep poking around on that issue.
Thanks,
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to: =
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the =
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to: =
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:28:33 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_116.19997cab.2aee9581_boundary"
--part1_116.19997cab.2aee9581_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 10/28/02, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Sign me, dan who has a rule to add to the list of rules which is to use
> plain text for email which is a plain text medium and save the html crap
> for the world wide web where it belongs becker
Explain plain text vs. html for us aol newbies. Sign me, Remington Rand
--part1_116.19997cab.2aee9581_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/02, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sign me, dan who has a rule to add to the list of rules which is to use<BR>
plain text for email which is a plain text medium and save the html crap<BR>
for the world wide web where it belongs becker</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Explain plain text vs. html for us aol newbies. Sign me, Remington Rand </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:53:13 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C27E89.5BE1D60D"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C27E89.5BE1D60D
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-----Original Message-----
From: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Met
History
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:29 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Interim rule #4
In a message dated 10/28/02, [log in to unmask] writes:
Sign me, dan who has a rule to add to the list of rules which is to use
plain text for email which is a plain text medium and save the html crap
for the world wide web where it belongs becker
Explain plain text vs. html for us aol newbies. Sign me, Remington
Rand =20
=20
=20
Your post is in html... "hyper text markup language" ...which is the
code that converts electrons into web page format. Allows you to create
vertical blue lines and blue text, or to format your TEXT, etc. It is
ponderous, clunky, and is hard for those of us that are properly using
plain text to process and reply. What you don't see in your email is all
the formatting code that renders what you see on your monitor. It's
resource intensive, and makes your emails much larger than they need to
be, which of course costs David down under money to download because in
other parts of the world, they don't get flat rate internet service,
they pay for bandwidth used. And html email eats up bandwidth, for no
good reason...it does not impart any additional information to text.
=20
Microsoft started all of this with Outlook, and it's just gotten worse
from there.=20
=20
Plain text is ASCII standard, basically the original format for
electronic text, and is just that: plain. No bells, no whistles, it just
gives you the goods: the letters needed to read the words.
=20
Somewhere I hope in your AOL settings for email, there is an option to
choose plain text. Please do so. And so should the rest of you who are
using html mail, ]<en.
=20
We thank you for your kind indulgences.
__________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! Now
Raleigh Historic I have a brain!"
Districts Commission - Scarecrow
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C27E89.5BE1D60D
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> maybe=20
this could fall apart after the checks clear=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Met=20
History<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 28, 2002 8:29 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Interim =
rule=20
#4<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT=20
size=3D2>In a message dated 10/28/02, [log in to unmask]
writes:<BR><BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT size=3D2>Sign me, dan who has a rule to add to the =
list of=20
rules which is to use<BR>plain text for email which is a plain text =
medium=20
and save the html crap<BR>for the world wide web where it belongs=20
becker</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2>Explain plain text vs. html for us aol=20
newbies. Sign me, Remington Rand <SPAN=20
class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D388013613-28102002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Your post is in html... "hyper text markup language" ...which =
is the code=20
that converts electrons into web page format. Allows you to create =
vertical blue=20
lines and blue text, or to <U><FONT color=3D#ff0000>format</FONT> <FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow" color=3D#008000>your</FONT> <FONT face=3D"Monotype =
Corsiva"=20
color=3D#ff00ff><STRONG>TEXT</STRONG></FONT></U>, etc. It is ponderous, =
clunky,=20
and is hard for those of us that are properly using plain text to =
process and=20
reply. What you don't see in your email is all the formatting code that =
renders=20
what you see on your monitor. It's resource intensive, and makes your =
emails=20
much larger than they need to be, which of course costs David down under =
money=20
to download because in other parts of the world, they don't get flat =
rate=20
internet service, they pay for bandwidth used. And html email eats up =
bandwidth,=20
for no good reason...it does not impart any additional information to=20
text.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff>Microsoft started all of this with Outlook, and it's =
just gotten=20
worse from there. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Plain text is ASCII standard, basically the original format for =
electronic text, and is just that: plain. No bells, no whistles, it just =
gives=20
you the goods: the letters needed to read the words.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff>Somewhere I hope in your AOL settings for email, there =
is an=20
option to choose plain text. Please do so. And so should the rest of you =
who are=20
using html mail, </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff>]<en.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff>We=20
thank you for your kind indulgences.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002>
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2>__________________________________________________<BR>Dan =
Becker, =20
Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! =
Now<BR>Raleigh=20
Historic  =
; I=20
have a brain!"<BR>Districts=20
Commission &nb=
sp; =20
- Scarecrow<BR>[log in to unmask] <BR>919/890-3678</FONT>=20
</FONT></P></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C27E89.5BE1D60D--
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To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:16:24 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OK, Mr. Dan Bigshot, are you saying you know more than AOL reps...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_181.10f15ee7.2aeea0b8_boundary"
--part1_181.10f15ee7.2aeea0b8_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
...paid about 4 rupees a day in India? Following is a transcript of my
recent conversation with "CUBES":
Welcome methistory ...
Connecting to server. Please wait...
Connected to server. An agent will be with you shortly
Welcome to America Online's Live Help Area. A Customer Care Consultant will
be with you shortly.
Welcome to America Online's Live Help Area. A Customer Care Consultant will
be with you shortly.
AOLTechSMB: Hello. My name is Cubes. I am happy to address any questions or
concerns you may have. Before we begin, may I please have your first name?
methistory: My first name is Christopher. Is it possible to set my outgoing
email preference as "plain text"?
AOLTechSMB: Nice to meet you Christopher:) I apologize, but I don't
understand what you need help with. Would you please explain further?
methistory: I believe that others receive my email as html. Is it possible to
reset my email to go out in "plain
text"?
AOLTechSMB: The e-mail that you are receiving depends on the what is the
content.
AOLTechSMB: When an e-mail is sent as plain text, you will receive it as
plain text.
methistory: Have you had your coffee yet? I said "my outgoing email".
AOLTechSMB: Sorry for the confusion.
methistory: I want to set my outgoing email preference as "plain text".
AOLTechSMB: When the e-mail that you have sent is simply in text, then the
receiver with receive it in plain text. There are no setting required.
methistory: OK.... how do I send my email out in plain text?
methistory: waiting
AOLTechSMB: Sending e-mail in plain text is like sending an ordinary e-mail.
Click on the WRITE icon on the AOL toolbar to open a new mail
AOLTechSMB: Then compose the mail and send it.
methistory: Are you certain of that? The email I send out now is enabled with
colors, etc. -- I believe that is html, not plain text.
AOLTechSMB: Could you please try sending an e-mail to me for testing
purposes. My screen name is [log in to unmask]
AOLTechSMB: Thanks
methistory: Yes, I have sent it.
AOLTechSMB: Thanks. I have opened the e-mail and it is in plain text.
methistory: Well, thank you very much, I sincerely appreciate it. A Mr.
Bullwinkle, in North Carolina, tells me it is in html. But I think he's sort
of squirrelly.
AOLTechSMB: You are most welcome.
methistory: It is such a privilege to be an aol member. I treasure the
charges you make on my Visa card, and all the pop-ups.
end of session
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">...paid about 4 rupees a day in India? Following is a transcript of my recent conversation with "CUBES":<BR>
<BR>
Welcome methistory ... <BR>
Connecting to server. Please wait... <BR>
Connected to server. An agent will be with you shortly <BR>
Welcome to America Online's Live Help Area. A Customer Care Consultant will be with you shortly. <BR>
Welcome to America Online's Live Help Area. A Customer Care Consultant will be with you shortly. <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Hello. My name is Cubes. I am happy to address any questions or concerns you may have. Before we begin, may I please have your first name? <BR>
<BR>
methistory: My first name is Christopher. Is it possible to set my outgoing email preference as "plain text"? <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Nice to meet you Christopher:) I apologize, but I don't understand what you need help with. Would you please explain further? <BR>
<BR>
methistory: I believe that others receive my email as html. Is it possible to reset my email to go out in "plain <BR>
text"? <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: The e-mail that you are receiving depends on the what is the content. <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: When an e-mail is sent as plain text, you will receive it as plain text. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: Have you had your coffee yet? I said "my outgoing email". <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Sorry for the confusion. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: I want to set my outgoing email preference as "plain text". <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: When the e-mail that you have sent is simply in text, then the receiver with receive it in plain text. There are no setting required. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: OK.... how do I send my email out in plain text? <BR>
<BR>
methistory: waiting <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Sending e-mail in plain text is like sending an ordinary e-mail. Click on the WRITE icon on the AOL toolbar to open a new mail <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Then compose the mail and send it. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: Are you certain of that? The email I send out now is enabled with colors, etc. -- I believe that is html, not plain text. <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Could you please try sending an e-mail to me for testing purposes. My screen name is [log in to unmask] <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Thanks <BR>
<BR>
methistory: Yes, I have sent it. <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: Thanks. I have opened the e-mail and it is in plain text. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: Well, thank you very much, I sincerely appreciate it. A Mr. Bullwinkle, in North Carolina, tells me it is in html. But I think he's sort of squirrelly. <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: You are most welcome. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: It is such a privilege to be an aol member. I treasure the charges you make on my Visa card, and all the pop-ups. <BR>
<BR>
end of session</FONT></HTML>
--part1_181.10f15ee7.2aeea0b8_boundary--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:18:38 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is what my reply to your question actually looks like in plain
text...all the garbage is the coding language that renders the image in
html...
D.
**********************
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
maybe=20
this could fall apart after the checks clear=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Met=20
History<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 28, 2002 8:29 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Interim
rule=20
#4<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT=20
size=3D2>In a message dated 10/28/02, [log in to unmask]
writes:<BR><BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT size=3D2>Sign me, dan who has a rule to add to the
list of=20
rules which is to use<BR>plain text for email which is a plain text
medium=20
and save the html crap<BR>for the world wide web where it belongs=20
becker</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2>Explain plain text vs. html for us aol=20
newbies. Sign me, Remington Rand <SPAN=20
class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D388013613-28102002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Your post is in html... "hyper text markup language" ...which =
is
the code=20
that converts electrons into web page format. Allows you to create
vertical blue=20
lines and blue text, or to <U><FONT color=3D#ff0000>format</FONT> <FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow" color=3D#008000>your</FONT> <FONT face=3D"Monotype
Corsiva"=20
color=3D#ff00ff><STRONG>TEXT</STRONG></FONT></U>, etc. It is ponderous,
clunky,=20
and is hard for those of us that are properly using plain text to
process and=20
reply. What you don't see in your email is all the formatting code that
renders=20
what you see on your monitor. It's resource intensive, and makes your
emails=20
much larger than they need to be, which of course costs David down under
money=20
to download because in other parts of the world, they don't get flat
rate=20
internet service, they pay for bandwidth used. And html email eats up
bandwidth,=20
for no good reason...it does not impart any additional information to=20
text.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff>Microsoft started all of this with Outlook, and it's =
just
gotten=20
worse from there. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT =
face=3D"Courier
New"=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Plain text is ASCII standard, basically the original format for =
electronic text, and is just that: plain. No bells, no whistles, it just
gives=20
you the goods: the letters needed to read the words.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff>Somewhere I hope in your AOL settings for email, there =
is
an=20
option to choose plain text. Please do so. And so should the rest of you
who are=20
using html mail, </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#0000ff>]<en.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New"
color=3D#0000ff>We=20
thank you for your kind indulgences.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D388013613-28102002>
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2>__________________________________________________<BR>Dan
Becker, =20
Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture!
Now<BR>Raleigh=20
Historic &nbs
p; I=20
have a brain!"<BR>Districts=20
Commission &n
bsp; =20
- Scarecrow<BR>[log in to unmask] <BR>919/890-3678</FONT>=20
</FONT></P></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:35:18 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4 1/2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_9d.3038f1e1.2aeea526_boundary"
--part1_9d.3038f1e1.2aeea526_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hey, copy and move my "non-plain text message", the one you received, and put
it in an email to me. OK ?
--part1_9d.3038f1e1.2aeea526_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hey, copy and move my "non-plain text message", the one you received, and put it in an email to me. OK ? </FONT></HTML>
--part1_9d.3038f1e1.2aeea526_boundary--
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:36:37 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: OK, Mr. Dan Bigshot,
are you saying you know more than AOL reps...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_19a.ab5199b.2aeea575_boundary"
--part1_19a.ab5199b.2aeea575_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 10/28/2002 9:16:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> methistory: Well, thank you very much, I sincerely appreciate it. A Mr.
> Bullwinkle, in North Carolina, tells me it is in html. But I think he's
> sort of squirrelly.
>
> AOLTechSMB: You are most welcome.
>
> methistory: It is such a privilege to be an aol member. I treasure the
> charges you make on my Visa card, and all the pop-ups.
>
Chris,
I was thinking about whether I should reset whatever the hell it is, but
figured it was more trouble than it's worth (not unlike 10x thick paint).
Thanks for the confirmation. BTW, I am in 100% agreement with your other
observations. [You may now wish to change them.]
Since david's Aussie dollars are worth about 3 Italian Lira each, and since
he doesn't seem to be contributing much (not to mention his dues are in
arrears), let him pay for the privilege of receiving our fancy text instead
of the hotmail or un-hypertext or whatever the cheap stuff is called. [Maybe
that's why he and Rabbi Amy don't use capitals? Should we all write like ee
cummings to save them money? To save ourselves money? To cost the nice folks
at AOL money?]
The hell with it,
Ralph
--part1_19a.ab5199b.2aeea575_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/2002 9:16:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
methistory: Well, thank you very much, I sincerely appreciate it. A Mr. Bullwinkle, in North Carolina, tells me it is in html. But I think he's sort of squirrelly. <BR>
<BR>
AOLTechSMB: You are most welcome. <BR>
<BR>
methistory: It is such a privilege to be an aol member. I treasure the charges you make on my Visa card, and all the pop-ups. <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Chris,<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking about whether I should reset whatever the hell it is, but figured it was more trouble than it's worth (not unlike 10x thick paint). Thanks for the confirmation. BTW, I am in 100% agreement with your other observations. [You may now wish to change them.]<BR>
<BR>
Since david's Aussie dollars are worth about 3 Italian Lira each, and since he doesn't seem to be contributing much (not to mention his dues are in arrears), let him pay for the privilege of receiving our fancy text instead of the hotmail or un-hypertext or whatever the cheap stuff is called. [Maybe that's why he and Rabbi Amy don't use capitals? Should we all write like ee cummings to save them money? To save ourselves money? To <U>cost</U> the nice folks at AOL money?]<BR>
<BR>
The hell with it,<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:43:36 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ralph, thanks for the supportive, friendly message, but...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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...since I am self-appointed Rule Czar, you violated the "one line reference
tag" rule, and should have deleted "Eastern Standard Time" (as I just have)
before you sent it.
Sign me, Spare the Rod and Spoil the Subscriber, Chriftopher
In a message dated 10/28/02 9:37:58 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> <<<<In a message dated 10/28/2002 9:16:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:>>>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">...since I am self-appointed Rule Czar, you violated the "one line reference tag" rule, and should have deleted "Eastern Standard Time" (as I just have) before you sent it. <BR>
<BR>
Sign me, Spare the Rod and Spoil the Subscriber, Chriftopher<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/28/02 9:37:58 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><<<<In a message dated 10/28/2002 9:16:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:>>></FONT></HTML>
--part1_77.dc8500.2aeea718_boundary--
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:24:47 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ralph, thanks for the supportive, friendly message, but...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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[log in to unmask] writes:
> ...since I am self-appointed Rule Czar, you violated the "one line reference
> tag" rule, and should have deleted "Eastern Standard Time" (as I just have)
> before you sent it.
>
How about if I refund your dues? in lower case letters? Or smaller
point-size? does that help? ralph please forgive me this is as small as it
gets
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">[log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">...since I am self-appointed Rule Czar, you violated the "one line reference tag" rule, and should have deleted "Eastern Standard Time" (as I just have) before you sent it. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
How about if I refund your dues? in lower case letters? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Or smaller point-size? does that help? ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">please forgive me this is as small as it gets</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:16:58 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ken, ralph, how about "plain text"/ascii settings for aol email?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This also for other B-P aol users, quoted from Dan Becker...
<<<When you do figure out how to change the settings, be sure to let Ken and
Ralph know! Ken used to email [from AOL] in plain text, then it changed; I
figure it was from with some AOL version upgrade that changed the default
setting from plain text to html. Actually, Ken seems fairly versed in this
stuff, he may be able to help with configuring things the _proper_ way.>>>
Christopher
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">This also for other B-P aol users, quoted from Dan Becker...
<BR>
<BR><<<When you do figure out how to change the settings, be sure to let Ken and Ralph know! Ken used to email [from AOL] in plain text, then it changed; I figure it was from with some AOL version upgrade that changed the default setting from plain text to html. Actually, Ken seems fairly versed in this stuff, he may be able to help with configuring things the _proper_ way.>>>
<BR>
<BR>Christopher</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:23:56 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: No, Ralph, from now on your account is blocked unless ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_4f.25f91241.2aeeccac_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/28/02 10:25:47 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> How about if I refund your dues? in lower case letters? Or smaller
> point-size? does that help? ralph please forgive me this is as small as it
> gets
...you are using morse code. Sign me, dit dot (PS to Dan: how does SOS
look in html?)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/02 10:25:47 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">How about if I refund your dues? in lower case letters? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Or smaller point-size? does that help? ralph</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">please forgive me this is as small as it gets</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>...you are using morse code. Sign me, dit dot (PS to Dan: how does SOS look in html?)</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:50:34 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: No, Ralph, from now on your account is blocked unless ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In a message dated 10/28/2002 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
> you are using morse code
Interesting idea. Would Morse Code be more or less economical, electronically speaking, than ASCE or whatever the hell it is we use in these newfangled computers?
Ralph
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:31:07 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have just installed a cork floor in my new kitchen - my second kitchen to
have cork. I think it is the best! It wears well and cuts with a utility
knife. It can easily last 50 years (FLWright used it in Fallingwater), it is
warm to the touch and good sound insulating.
My first installation was prefinished (urethane) cork tiles on old vinyl
floor over a concrete slab in an apartment. It was amazing how resilient the
1/4" material was - we never broke a glass or plate that fell from the
counter. Note, if you do prefinished tiles, make sure you add a few coats of
urethane (water based works great and goes down fast) when complete - it
seals the seams.
Two weeks ago I finished my second cork kitchen floor, this time over wood
subfloor. I laminated 3/8" AC plywood (with dash patch) over the existing
1/2" ply that was laid over the original diagonal board subflooring. This
installation was unfinished cork tiles (12 x 12) glued down and stained (oil
based). I finished with water based urethane (Mega from Sweden) and it looks
fabulous!
I have always purchased my cork from Dodge Rugupol out of Pennsylvania, they
delivered 220 SF and water based adhesive in 3 days.
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 1:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cork floors
Well after the collapse of the Market this year ; my whole retirement went
out the window when I decided to follow it in an inebriated state of
despair.
However the window chosen for this emergency was on the first floor of my
tin roof Creole cottage and all that I managed to hit was the dogs bowl
and chicken pen which stirred up the rooster and the pot bellied pig who
live under the house that set the dogs to braying at 3 am .
This did not sit well with my wife who was awoken by the rumpus; and quick
witted as she is decided to hose me off from the respectable mantle of
feathers and chicken shit that adorned my posterior; thus allowing me to
quickly grasp reality and see the error of my ways by passing the remainder
of the night on the porch hammock.
It was within this "vision quest" that I decided to put more attention into
the 1950 Spartan Royal mansion (aluminum mobile home) currently under
renovation; I say renovation as Im not interested in its interior
restoration;
my approach is minimalist; solar - high / low tech
I am looking at cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I worry
about longevity and humidity ....any pin heads with experience and knowledge
about such floors? .. perhaps another wood suitable for such thin tile
like
applications.
Deb ; John Ken ...Best Michael ... .
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:52:04 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Eric, you read my mind. I want to take out the crappy thinset vinyl tile c.
1995 and put in cork - and do it myself.
#1 What's a nice looking baseboard moulding, instead of the cruddy rubber
stuff?
#2 What's the "bridge effect" of real cork flooring. I have a slightly
lumpy subfloor - 2 parts nice smooth concrete, one part old maple strip
flooring. There is a grade change - maybe 1/8"? - from the removal of an
intermediate wall separating these two floors, when I combined the old maid's
room with the kitchen. The old tile made it OK, although after a few years
you could see some cracks. Christopher Gray PS What's your new phone
#???
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">Eric, you read my mind. I want to take out the crappy thinset vinyl tile c. 1995 and put in cork - and do it myself.
<BR>
<BR>#1 What's a nice looking baseboard moulding, instead of the cruddy rubber stuff?
<BR>
<BR>#2 What's the "bridge effect" of real cork flooring. I have a slightly lumpy subfloor - 2 parts nice smooth concrete, one part old maple strip flooring. There is a grade change - maybe 1/8"? - from the removal of an intermediate wall separating these two floors, when I combined the old maid's room with the kitchen. The old tile made it OK, although after a few years you could see some cracks. Christopher Gray PS What's your new phone #??? </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:18:41 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 8:53:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Somewhere I hope in your AOL settings for email, there is an option to
> choose plain text. Please do so. And so should the rest of you who are
> using html mail, ]<en.
>
I have AOL 7.0 and I went to my "Preferences" which is under "Settings" and
clicked on "Font, Text & Graphics:" this I believe will allow you to do what
Dan is asking. Click on reset and it should return your font to the Arial
font which is what I'm now using. It looks like shit but I will try to always
please my fellow Pinheads. Even those down under.
Sign me,
G'Day Mate
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/2002 8:53:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Somewhere I hope in your AOL settings for email, there is an option to choose plain text. Please do so. And so should the rest of you who are using html mail, ]<en.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I have AOL 7.0 and I went to my "Preferences" which is under "Settings" and clicked on "Font, Text & Graphics:" this I believe will allow you to do what Dan is asking. Click on reset and it should return your font to the Arial font which is what I'm now using. It looks like shit but I will try to always please my fellow Pinheads. Even those down under.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
G'Day Mate </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:22:26 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: OK, Mr. Dan Bigshot,
are you saying you know more than AOL reps...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Damn I thought y'all were talking about the fonts. I will just keep my mouth
shut. Hey, does this mean I can once again change my font?
Steve
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:25:29 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Ralph, thanks for the supportive, friendly message, but...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_23.26b16d02.2aef2169_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:25:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> How about if I refund your dues?
NO REFUNDS! Should I have erased the crap up top?
Steve
--part1_23.26b16d02.2aef2169_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:25:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">How about if I refund your dues?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=5 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>NO REFUNDS! </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>Should I have erased the crap up top?<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:16:36 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_46.302e8e92.2aef2d64_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 5:53:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> #2 What's the "bridge effect" of real cork flooring. Not as good as your
> floor is lumpy, Clarence. I have a slightly lumpy subfloor - 2 parts nice
> smooth concrete, one part old maple strip flooring. There is a grade
> change - maybe 1/8"? - from the removal of an intermediate wall separating
> these two floors, when I combined the old maid's room with the kitchen.
> Gotta eliminate it; flashpatch or something to feather out the unevenness
> over a foot or so. The old tile made it OK, although after a few years you
> could see some cracks. What did you expect? As with painting, and
> everything else in life, it's all in the preparation.
>
> Ralph
>
> PS--Let's not have any more disparaging remarks about unmarried female
> hominids. Or we'll start getting 'em about married male hominids, and we
> all get enough of THAT at home, now don't we?
--part1_46.302e8e92.2aef2d64_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/2002 5:53:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">#2 What's the "bridge effect" of real cork flooring. <B>Not as good as your floor is lumpy, Clarence.</B> I have a slightly lumpy subfloor - 2 parts nice smooth concrete, one part old maple strip flooring. There is a grade change - maybe 1/8"? - from the removal of an intermediate wall separating these two floors, when I combined the old maid's room with the kitchen. <B>Gotta eliminate it; flashpatch or something to feather out the unevenness over a foot or so.</B> The old tile made it OK, although after a few years you could see some cracks. <B>What did you expect? As with painting, and everything else in life, it's all in the preparation.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
PS--Let's not have any more disparaging remarks about unmarried female hominids. Or we'll start getting 'em about married male hominids, and we all get enough of THAT at home, now don't we?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:09:05 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Rule #4 - Steve, that's an illegal double-space between...
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...last line and signature. First warning! Yrs, Wyatt Earp
In a message dated 10/28/02 10:03:27 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> shut. Hey, does this mean I can once again change my font?
>
>
> Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">...last line and signature. First warning! Yrs, Wyatt Earp<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/28/02 10:03:27 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">shut. Hey, does this mean I can once again change my font?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:11:38 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4 - Oh, forget it,
you don't know what you're....
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...talking about, doesn't work, been all over that one, you should be an AOL
tech help person. Have you thought of moving to Calcutta? Yr friend,
Nehru Jacket
In a message dated 10/28/02 10:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I have AOL 7.0 and I went to my "Preferences" which is under "Settings" and
> clicked on "Font, Text & Graphics:" this I believe will allow you to do
> what Dan is asking.
--part1_127.1964ec9d.2aef566a_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">...talking about, doesn't work, been all over that one, you should be an AOL tech help person. Have you thought of moving to Calcutta? Yr friend, Nehru Jacket <BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/28/02 10:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I have AOL 7.0 and I went to my "Preferences" which is under "Settings" and clicked on "Font, Text & Graphics:" this I believe will allow you to do what Dan is asking. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:12:55 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: You mean, like sex, Ralph?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/28/02 10:05:02 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> What did you expect? As with painting, and everything else in life, it's all
> in the preparation.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/02 10:05:02 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>What did you expect? As with painting, and everything else in life, it's all in the preparation. </B></FONT></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:48:07 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cuyler Page <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Heritage Interpretation Services
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C27ECB.B36FBAA0"
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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"" the ancient and honorable tradition of Absolutely Dead Serious =
No-Static Posts upon which this listserv is founded, and Which Is Its =
Very Greatness And What We All Hold Dear and which, along with =
everyone's scrupulous care with regard to making sure the Subject Line =
of their post actually refers to what they are posting about "" - - =
-re. that thread - - :
Even though this is a little late in the "worthiness of words" thread;
I have just been reading a book mentioned here on e-BP last spring - =
"The Future of the Past" - and the chapter on the non-literacy of life =
and politics in Somalia describes a poetic tradition there of public =
debate and communication of ideas that resembles this e-list in many =
ways. In Somalia there is, and always has been, an almost total lack =
of written language usage; and poetry is used instead in communications =
of all sorts as the medium of ideas and exchange. Today, as the outer =
world begins to intrude, this takes form there in poems recorded on =
cassette tapes and cd's for distribution instead of newspapers ( just =
today our radio news spoke of an Oshama B. cd that is available and =
popular in a similar region). Somali poets are still highly regarded =
as the leading creative populist thinkers. Some political debates or =
critiques take the form of strings of poetry, each poem added by the =
next thoughtful ideaist with something to say, each based on the =
previous ones in the string and all recognized by the populous as they =
are circulated by reciting them or listening to the recordings. There =
are many strings going on at the same time. Some are only single poems =
and others become long chains of poems. The poems in some famous =
strings all start with the same letter and are referred to in terms such =
as "the S poems" or "the D poems" which everyone recognizes as an =
important series dealing with this topic or that one.
The dear BP-list always seems more like an aural/oral conversation =
rather than a literate one. The screen seems more full of warm voices =
than cold print. The book's mention of strings of contributions linked =
to a topic, and the natural shift from time to time from one string to a =
new one, seemed much like what happens here. The freedom of input here =
is wonderfully humanistic, and with the relative importance of each item =
left to the whim of the rest to add to or not, it is wonderfully =
democratic. =20
cp in bc - looking at the first little wimpy snow in the air tonight
PS:
The book is very informative but not at all what I expected. The =
author paints episodal pictures based on personal globe-hopping =
involvement with the people doing things relevant to the course of =
historic preservation or restoration of all sorts, such as =
archaeological statue copying in China, an Italian priest with a passion =
for teaching Latin as a living language, an ecological forest =
preservation park in Indonesia, the aural poetic political tradition in =
Somalia, illegal Euro-American international dealing in ancient art and =
artefacts, the re-creation of the great library at Alexandria, etc. etc.
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C27ECB.B36FBAA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">""</FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial=20
lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT color=3D#0000ff> the =
ancient and=20
honorable tradition of Absolutely Dead Serious No-Static Posts upon =
which this=20
listserv is founded, and Which Is Its Very Greatness And What We All =
Hold Dear=20
and which, along with everyone's scrupulous care with regard to making =
sure=20
the Subject Line of their post actually refers to what they are =
posting about=20
"" </FONT>- - -re. that thread - - :</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Even though this is a little late in =
the=20
"worthiness of words" thread;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have just been reading a =
book mentioned=20
here on e-BP last spring - "The Future of the Past" - and=20
the chapter on the non-literacy of life and politics in Somalia =
describes=20
a poetic tradition there of public debate and communication of ideas =
that=20
resembles this e-list in many ways. In Somalia there is, =
and=20
always has been, an almost total lack of written language usage; and =
poetry=20
is used instead in communications of all sorts as the medium of =
ideas and=20
exchange. Today, as the outer world begins to intrude, =
this takes=20
form there in poems recorded on cassette tapes and cd's for =
distribution=20
instead of newspapers ( just today our radio news spoke of an Oshama =
B. cd=20
that is available and popular in a similar region). Somali =
poets=20
are still highly regarded as the leading creative populist =
thinkers. =20
Some political debates or critiques take the form of strings of =
poetry, each=20
poem added by the next thoughtful ideaist with something to say, each =
based on=20
the previous ones in the string and all recognized by the populous as =
they are=20
circulated by reciting them or listening to the =
recordings. There=20
are many strings going on at the same time. Some are only =
single=20
poems and others become long chains of poems. The poems in =
some=20
famous strings all start with the same letter and are referred to in =
terms=20
such as "the S poems" or "the D poems" which everyone recognizes =
as an=20
important series dealing with this topic or that one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The dear BP-list always seems more =
like an=20
aural/oral conversation rather than a literate one. The =
screen=20
seems more full of warm voices than cold print. The book's =
mention=20
of strings of contributions linked to a topic, and the natural shift =
from time=20
to time from one string to a new one, seemed much like =
what happens=20
here. The freedom of input here is =
wonderfully humanistic,=20
and with the relative importance of each item left to the whim of the =
rest to=20
add to or not, it is wonderfully democratic. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>cp in bc - looking at the first little wimpy snow in the air =
tonight</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS:</DIV>
<DIV>The book is very informative but not at all what I =
expected. =20
The author paints episodal pictures based on personal globe-hopping=20
involvement with the people doing things relevant to the course of =
historic=20
preservation or restoration of all sorts, such as =
archaeological=20
statue copying in China, an Italian priest with a passion for teaching =
Latin=20
as a living language, an ecological forest preservation park in =
Indonesia, the=20
aural poetic political tradition in Somalia, illegal Euro-American=20
international dealing in ancient art and artefacts, the re-creation of =
the=20
great library at Alexandria, etc. etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:16:22 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="us-ascii"
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-----Original Message-----
From: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
I have AOL 7.0 and I went to my "Preferences" which is under "Settings"
and clicked on "Font, Text & Graphics:" this I believe will allow you to
do what Dan is asking. Click on reset and it should return your font to
the Arial font which is what I'm now using. It looks like shit but I
will try to always please my fellow Pinheads. Even those down under.
=20
No. No, no, no. What you have done is create an html document that is
formatted to look plain. You have not created "plain text." Plain text
is different, really really different. I am coming to the belief that
AOL 7.0 is incapable of plain text. I really really dislike
AOL/Microsoft hegemony.=20
________________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Dagnabit Muskie, who dropped
Raleigh Historic the cotton pickin' curtain on
Districts Commission my toe bone?" =20
[log in to unmask] - Deputy Dawg
919/890-3678=20
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charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> maybe=20
this could fall apart after the checks clear=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 28, 2002 6:19=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: Interim rule #4<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT size=3D2>I =
have AOL 7.0 and I=20
went to my "Preferences" which is under "Settings" and clicked on =
"Font, Text=20
& Graphics:" this I believe will allow you to do what Dan is =
asking. Click=20
on reset and it should return your font to the Arial font which is =
what I'm=20
now using. It looks like shit but I will try to always please my =
fellow=20
Pinheads. Even those down under.<BR><SPAN =
class=3D465371213-29102002><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"=20
=
color=3D#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D465371213-29102002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3D#0000ff>No. No, no, no.=20
What you have done is create an html document that is formatted to look =
plain.=20
You have not created "plain text." Plain text is different, really =
really=20
different. I am coming to the belief that AOL 7.0 is incapable of plain =
text. I=20
really really dislike AOL/Microsoft hegemony.=20
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D465371213-29102002><!-- Converted =
from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT =
size=3D2>________________________________________________________<BR>Dan =
Becker, Exec. Dir. "Dagnabit Muskie, who =
dropped<BR>Raleigh=20
Historic the =
cotton=20
pickin' curtain on<BR>Districts =
Commission =20
my toe=20
bone?" &=
nbsp; <BR>[log in to unmask] =
&=
nbsp; =20
- Deputy Dawg<BR>919/890-3678</FONT>=20
</P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:20:07 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: OK, Mr. Dan Bigshot,
are you saying you know more than AOL reps...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -----Original Message-----
> From: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear=20
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf=20
> Of [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:22 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: OK, Mr. Dan Bigshot, are you saying you know=20
> more than AOL reps...
>=20
>=20
> Damn I thought y'all were talking about the fonts. I will=20
> just keep my mouth shut. Hey, does this mean I can once again=20
> change my font?
>=20
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and=20
> the uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to: >
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
HOLY SHIT STEVE! WHAT DID YOU DO???? YOU HIT THE HOME RUN BUDDY! THIS
HERE IS A PLAIN TEXT MESSAGE YOU SENT!!!!! WHEN YOU SEE THE UNSUBSCRIBE
MESSAGE ATTACHED TO AN EMAIL, THAT MEANS YOU SENT PLAIN TEXT...THE ROBOT
DOESN'T ATTACH THAT TO HTML-FORMATTED EMAIL.
GIVE IT UP STEVE. TELL YOUR FELLOW FOLKS ON AOL WHAT YOU DID!!!!
GOSH I'M SO EXCITED.
Ok, now I'm calmed down.
_______________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "The workman ought often to
Raleigh Historic be thinking, and the thinker
Districts Commission often to be working."
[log in to unmask] -- John Ruskin
919/890-3678=20
>=20
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:50:06 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
There are lots of nice choices in wood moldings from Dykes Lumber (and many
others too).
Cork will telegraph EVERY bump and seam from the subfloor. You can feather
out transitions but I would extend it out as far as you can, say 1/8" out
over 4 ft (2 ft min). You will need to do a very good dash patch job and
make sure it is portland cement based dash, NOT gypsum. It is a bit nerve
racking cause no matter how good a d.p. job you do, you won't really know
how good it is until the day after you lay the tile and you can survey your
work.
Good luck!
(believe it or not, my phone numbers are holding)
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Met History [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 5:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cork floors
Eric, you read my mind. I want to take out the crappy thinset vinyl tile c.
1995 and put in cork - and do it myself.
#1 What's a nice looking baseboard moulding, instead of the cruddy rubber
stuff?
#2 What's the "bridge effect" of real cork flooring. I have a slightly
lumpy subfloor - 2 parts nice smooth concrete, one part old maple strip
flooring. There is a grade change - maybe 1/8"? - from the removal of an
intermediate wall separating these two floors, when I combined the old
maid's room with the kitchen. The old tile made it OK, although after a few
years you could see some cracks. Christopher Gray PS What's your new
phone #???
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:01:50 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:26:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> BP Pheasant Pokers
Yeah, and I got pictures to prove it.
How to hunt pheasant with a really long stick.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 10:26:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">BP Pheasant Pokers</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Yeah, and I got pictures to prove it.<BR>
How to hunt pheasant with a really long stick.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:01:48 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:34:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> No 'scopes allowed. Let's play fair...
>
No scopes is fine... we bring oxygen cannon.
Can we invite Mr. Gray w/ his crossbow & fireworks?
Village Idiot is experienced in hiding in vehicle trunks.
We can have a North/South reenactment.
Ralph may be recovered in time for a relapse w/ Pyrate.
Everyone wants a vacation these days.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:34:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">No 'scopes allowed. Let's play fair...<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">No scopes is fine... we bring oxygen cannon.<BR>
Can we invite Mr. Gray w/ his crossbow & fireworks?<BR>
Village Idiot is experienced in hiding in vehicle trunks.<BR>
We can have a North/South reenactment.<BR>
Ralph may be recovered in time for a relapse w/ Pyrate.<BR>
Everyone wants a vacation these days.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:01:48 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Or recommend anything that is less ugly than the metal spikes?
Leland,
Forget messing w/ sound and go for the colored netting w/ SS fasteners.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Or recommend anything that is less ugly than the metal spikes?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Leland,<BR>
<BR>
Forget messing w/ sound and go for the colored netting w/ SS fasteners.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:01:49 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:51:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Can we lift the ban on posting photographs?
I recuse myself from voting on graphics for BP. Actually, I delete all e-mail
w/ attachments that do not clearly indicate where they are coming from, and I
make sure that I know where they are coming from. E-mails w/ attachments
w/out graphics I delete w/out asking questions. Best to use PigHabit-L
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/25/2002 7:51:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Can we lift the ban on posting photographs? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I recuse myself from voting on graphics for BP. Actually, I delete all e-mail w/ attachments that do not clearly indicate where they are coming from, and I make sure that I know where they are coming from. E-mails w/ attachments w/out graphics I delete w/out asking questions. Best to use PigHabit-L<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:23:09 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Arial font which is what I'm now using. It looks like shit
Steve,
You got dat right, which is another reason I don't like MAC, because of that
cheap-looking typeface they use. One must maintain one's standards, mustn't
one?
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Arial font which is what I'm now using. It looks like shit</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Steve,<BR>
<BR>
You got dat right, which is another reason I don't like MAC, because of that cheap-looking typeface they use. One must maintain one's standards, mustn't one?<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:23:40 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ken, ralph,
how about "plain text"/ascii settings for aol email?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 9:18:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Ken seems fairly versed in this stuff, he may be able to help with
> configuring things the _proper_ way.>>>
Hell if I know.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/2002 9:18:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ken seems fairly versed in this stuff, he may be able to help with configuring things the _proper_ way.>>> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
Hell if I know.<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:26:43 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: You mean, like sex, Ralph?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sex? What's that? Perhaps you mean "gender."
I am a married man, sir, and don't live in some fancy Manhattan condo with an
old maid's room.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Sex? What's that? Perhaps you mean "gender."<BR>
<BR>
I am a married man, sir, and don't live in some fancy Manhattan condo with an old maid's room.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:30:32 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:05:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> and the chapter on the non-literacy of life and politics in Somalia
> describes a poetic tradition there of public debate and communication of
> ideas that resembles this e-list in many ways.
Cuyler,
Isn't Somalia where those shitheads killed our Jarheads not too long ago?
And probably not with poetry, either. Fuck 'em.
Real Live Nephew of my Uncle Sam
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:05:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">and the chapter on the non-literacy of life and politics in Somalia describes a poetic tradition there of public debate and communication of ideas that resembles this e-list in many ways.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Cuyler,<BR>
<BR>
Isn't Somalia where those shitheads killed our Jarheads not too long ago? And probably not with poetry, either. Fuck 'em.<BR>
<BR>
Real Live Nephew of my Uncle Sam</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:37:11 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Got a call from Peter in Australia... (don't bother Ralph,
it's a one-lin...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sharpshooter,
Are you making this up?
][<en
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:20:19 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ralph, thanks for the supportive, friendly message, but...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:04:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> NO REFUNDS! Should I have erased the crap up top?
>
>
Steve,
You are OK in my book. Not that that means anything. I don't care who
erases what, except when people email me jokes that have already been halfway
around the world and have all that crap before you ever get to the goddam
joke.
Ralph
PS--I wasn't going to refund anything I hadn't been paid, so it was a safe
offer.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:04:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=5 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>NO REFUNDS! </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>Should I have erased the crap up top?<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Steve,<BR>
<BR>
You are OK in my book. Not that that means anything. I don't care who erases what, except when people email me jokes that have already been halfway around the world and have all that crap before you ever get to the goddam joke.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
PS--I wasn't going to refund anything I hadn't been paid, so it was a safe offer.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:13:35 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_110.1addfaee.2af029cf_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:35:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I am coming to the belief that AOL 7.0 is incapable of plain text. I really
> really dislike AOL/Microsoft hegemony.
I agree... I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.
][<en
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:35:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I am coming to the belief that AOL 7.0 is incapable of plain text. I really really dislike AOL/Microsoft hegemony. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I agree... I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.<BR>
<BR>
][<en</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:15:00 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Got a call from Peter in Australia... (don't bother Ralph,
it's a one-lin...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_51.2691f8e3.2af02a24_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/29/02 12:39:16 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<<<<Sharpshooter, Are you making this up?
Nope, Ken, I ain't and please note the compact reply line for your
convenience!
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/02 12:39:16 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR><<<<</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Sharpshooter, Are you making this up?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>Nope, Ken, I ain't and please note the compact reply line for your convenience!
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:32:42 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nov 9 tour of Detroit Masonic Temple
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
The Detroit Masonic Temple is one of those wondrous, colossal edifices of
the 1920s, incorporating the equivalent of a movie palace, the public
spaces of a major hotel, a cathedral or three, and a dozen lodge halls,
all in one Gothic structure -- with but few remodelings or modifications
since 1926.
With 1037 rooms on 14 floors, twelve million cubic feet of space, it is
the largest Masonic Temple in the world. It's located on Temple Street;
the telephone exchange for its neighborhood, where I lived in 1980-82 as a
law student, used to be called "TEmple" (now 831, 832, 833).
For more details about the building and its history, see:
http://www.themasonic.com/history.html
http://detroitmta.lodges.gl-mi.org/
Yesterday I received the following in email:
> I have long enjoyed the Political Graveyard website and have, on
> occassion checked it, in some of my own research activities. I thank you
> for what appears to be a "labor of love." Recently, I wandered onto your
> homepage and was surprized to note the Masonic Temple of Detroit was one of
> your favorite buildings. Have I got a deal for you!
> I happen to be the President of the Masonic Temple Association of
> Detroit which owns and operates the largest Masonic Temple in the world. I
> have been concerned over the ever decreasing public appreciation of
> architectural heritage and felt it vital to the survival of that building
> and the heritage it represents, to foster an appreciation of it. To that
> end, I asked our "in house" museum to develop a course of instruction for
> docents to offer tours of the building to interested parties. Dr. Thomas
> Brunk took that ball and ran with it. I'm happy to report the first cadre'
> is graduating this November. Further, as it was my idea, I also was a
> student therein.
> I extend an invitation to you, and whom ever you choose to bring with
> you, to visit us on the afternoon of 9 November 2002 for a tour of this
> architectural wonder. I will personally conduct your tour.
If any of y'all are going to be in the Detroit area on Saturday, November
9, and would like to join me in touring this architectural marvel, let me
know!
Larry
---
Lawrence Kestenbaum, [log in to unmask]
Washtenaw County Commissioner, 4th District
The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:52:26 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hammarberg, Eric" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: flyash in mortar
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing? What
characteristics would it impart?
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:27:21 -0600
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Score, Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: flyash in mortar
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We have added metokalin to GFRC to reduce the liklyhood of efflourescence.
The smart guys in the white suits tell me that the metokalin reduces the
free lime particles that often lead to efflourscence. Metokalin is in many
regards a refined version of fly ash so it is possible that the results may
be similar, but have never tested this theroy in mortar.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hammarberg, Eric [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: flyash in mortar
Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing? What
characteristics would it impart?
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Associate
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)
email: [log in to unmask]
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: flyash in mortar</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We have added metokalin to GFRC to reduce the =
liklyhood of efflourescence. The smart guys in the white suits tell me =
that the metokalin reduces the free lime particles that often lead to =
efflourscence. Metokalin is in many regards a refined version of fly =
ash so it is possible that the results may be similar, but have never =
tested this theroy in mortar.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Hammarberg, Eric [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:EHammarberg@LZATECH=
NOLOGY.COM</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:52 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: flyash in mortar</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for =
repointing? What</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>characteristics would it impart?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Eric Hammarberg</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Associate Director of Preservation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Associate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>LZA Technology</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>641 Avenue of the Americas</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>New York, NY 10011-2014</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Telephone: 917.661.8160 (Direct)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mobile: 917.439.3537</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fax: 917.661.8161 (Direct)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>email: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
</P>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:15:16 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: flyash in mortar
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing? What
> characteristics would it impart?
>
Eric-
About a decade ago we were searching for some pressure grout recipes for a
stone wall, and fly ash was one of the components which we were advised would
add expansive characteristics to the grouts.
Twybil
--part1_ea.305f5e90.2af05464_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing? What
<BR>characteristics would it impart?
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Eric-
<BR>
<BR>About a decade ago we were searching for some pressure grout recipes for a stone wall, and fly ash was one of the components which we were advised would add expansive characteristics to the grouts.
<BR>
<BR>Twybil </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:57:01 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:35:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I really really dislike AOL/Microsoft hegemony.
So go live in Iraq or North Korea, or someplace like that.
In other words, not the Free World. As dominated by Bill Gates.
Ralph (A proud American)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:35:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I really really dislike AOL/Microsoft hegemony. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
So go live in Iraq or North Korea, or someplace like that. <BR>
<BR>
In other words, not the Free World. As dominated by Bill Gates.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph (A proud American)</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:59:44 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:15:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.
>
What difference does it make? They're inescapable.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:15:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
What difference does it make? They're inescapable.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:19:55 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "S. Stokowski" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: flyash in mortar
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/29/02 4:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> About a decade ago we were searching for some pressure grout recipes for a
> stone wall, and fly ash was one of the components which we were advised
> would add expansive characteristics to the grouts.
>
> Twybil
Well, then you were not advised very well. That does not happen.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/02 4:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">About a decade ago we were searching for some pressure grout recipes for a stone wall, and fly ash was one of the components which we were advised would add expansive characteristics to the grouts. <BR>
<BR>
Twybil </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Well, then you were not advised very well. That does not happen.<BR>
<BR>
Steve Stokowski<BR>
Stone Products Consultants<BR>
Building Products Microscopy<BR>
10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:28:44 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "S. Stokowski" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: flyash in mortar
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In a message dated 10/29/02 1:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing? What
> characteristics would it impart?
Eric:
My opinion is that it would be an extremely bad idea to use flyash in a
pointing mortar. I've made repair mortars with a flyash component to impart
some special properties, such as self leveling. I've also developed masonry
cements and masonry mortars. Using flyash in a masonry mortar seems
misguided at the least.
Flyash is a pozzolan. Some of the glassy and mineral phases in flyash react
with dissolved calcium hydroxide in water. Alkalies and salt can speed up
the reaction. However, water is an essential part of the reaction, which
proceeds slower than that of water with Portland Cement. Of all the mortar
varieties, pointing mortars dry out the fastest because they are on the
exterior of a wall. The flyash would take months, if not years or decades,
to perform in any way other than as a filler.
Somebody mentioned metakaolin in this thread. Metakaolin is not flyash.
Flyash also tends to make a more-flowable mortar than a mortar made with
hydrated lime, etc. These mortars also do not retain water very well. A
pointing mortar made with a flyash component may alternately run-out and then
fall-out of the joint. Mason productivity would plummet before they went on
strike or quit.
There are two main types of flyash in the United States. Type F flyash is
produced from eastern, bituminous coals. Type C flyash is produced from
western lignite or brown coals. Type F flyash tends to contain more
pozzolannic material whereas Type C flyash is slightly cementitious. Type F
flyash tends to be darker in color than Type C flyash. Mortars made with
Type F ash may cause a mortar to be dark gray.
One could make a masonry cement that contains flyash. I expect that it would
have some unusual strength and performance characteristics. The masonry
cement may perform better at high temperatures, it may resist weathering
better if it was moist cured for months before being exposed to driving
rains, and, it may lessen the chance for ASR and sulfate deterioration.
These features would not show up in any of the standard ASTM mortar tests.
None of these possible positive features have a practical application on the
Earth. If you added the material to masonry cement, the likely consequence
is that you would simply complicate the product, increase the production
costs, and increase the risk of a failure after the occasional batching
error.
Having flyash on a jobsite would be asking for trouble. Flyash tends to blow
everywhere, even if it is bagged. One could make a big mess and maybe even
get fined without any effort at all.
In short, it would be pointless to incorporate flyash in a pointing mortar.
Steve Stokowski
Stone Products Consultants
Building Products Microscopy
10 Clark St., Ste. A
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
--part1_97.2fe93926.2af081bc_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/29/02 1:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing? What<BR>
characteristics would it impart?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">Eric:<BR>
<BR>
My opinion is that it would be an extremely bad idea to use flyash in a pointing mortar. I've made repair mortars with a flyash component to impart some special properties, such as self leveling. I've also developed masonry cements and masonry mortars. Using flyash in a masonry mortar seems misguided at the least.<BR>
<BR>
Flyash is a pozzolan. Some of the glassy and mineral phases in flyash react with dissolved calcium hydroxide in water. Alkalies and salt can speed up the reaction. However, water is an essential part of the reaction, which proceeds slower than that of water with Portland Cement. Of all the mortar varieties, pointing mortars dry out the fastest because they are on the exterior of a wall. The flyash would take months, if not years or decades, to perform in any way other than as a filler.<BR>
<BR>
Somebody mentioned metakaolin in this thread. Metakaolin is not flyash.<BR>
<BR>
Flyash also tends to make a more-flowable mortar than a mortar made with hydrated lime, etc. These mortars also do not retain water very well. A pointing mortar made with a flyash component may alternately run-out and then fall-out of the joint. Mason productivity would plummet before they went on strike or quit. <BR>
<BR>
There are two main types of flyash in the United States. Type F flyash is produced from eastern, bituminous coals. Type C flyash is produced from western lignite or brown coals. Type F flyash tends to contain more pozzolannic material whereas Type C flyash is slightly cementitious. Type F flyash tends to be darker in color than Type C flyash. Mortars made with Type F ash may cause a mortar to be dark gray.<BR>
<BR>
One could make a masonry cement that contains flyash. I expect that it would have some unusual strength and performance characteristics. The masonry cement may perform better at high temperatures, it may resist weathering better if it was moist cured for months before being exposed to driving rains, and, it may lessen the chance for ASR and sulfate deterioration. These features would not show up in any of the standard ASTM mortar tests. None of these possible positive features have a practical application on the Earth. If you added the material to masonry cement, the likely consequence is that you would simply complicate the product, increase the production costs, and increase the risk of a failure after the occasional batching error. <BR>
<BR>
Having flyash on a jobsite would be asking for trouble. Flyash tends to blow everywhere, even if it is bagged. One could make a big mess and maybe even get fined without any effort at all.<BR>
<BR>
In short, it would be pointless to incorporate flyash in a pointing mortar.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Steve Stokowski<BR>
Stone Products Consultants<BR>
Building Products Microscopy<BR>
10 Clark St., Ste. A<BR>
Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)<BR>
http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 20:56:22 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: OK, Mr. Dan Bigshot,
are you saying you know more than AOL reps...
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> HOLY SHIT STEVE! WHAT DID YOU DO???? YOU HIT THE HOME RUN BUDDY! THIS
> HERE IS A PLAIN TEXT MESSAGE YOU SENT!!!!! WHEN YOU SEE THE UNSUBSCRIBE
> MESSAGE ATTACHED TO AN EMAIL, THAT MEANS YOU SENT PLAIN TEXT...THE ROBOT
> DOESN'T ATTACH THAT TO HTML-FORMATTED EMAIL.
>
> GIVE IT UP STEVE. TELL YOUR FELLOW FOLKS ON AOL WHAT YOU DID!!!!
>
> GOSH I'M SO EXCITED.
>
> Ok, now I'm calmed down.
>
Hell I don't know.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">HOLY SHIT STEVE! WHAT DID YOU DO???? YOU HIT THE HOME RUN BUDDY! THIS<BR>
HERE IS A PLAIN TEXT MESSAGE YOU SENT!!!!! WHEN YOU SEE THE UNSUBSCRIBE<BR>
MESSAGE ATTACHED TO AN EMAIL, THAT MEANS YOU SENT PLAIN TEXT...THE ROBOT<BR>
DOESN'T ATTACH THAT TO HTML-FORMATTED EMAIL.<BR>
<BR>
GIVE IT UP STEVE. TELL YOUR FELLOW FOLKS ON AOL WHAT YOU DID!!!!<BR>
<BR>
GOSH I'M SO EXCITED.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, now I'm calmed down.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Hell I don't know.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:00:49 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:38:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Isn't Somalia where those shitheads killed our Jarheads not too long ago?
> And probably not with poetry, either. Fuck 'em.
>
>
Yeah it sure is. I say let the bastards starve.
Steve
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:38:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Isn't Somalia where those shitheads killed our Jarheads not too long ago? And probably not with poetry, either. Fuck 'em.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Yeah it sure is. I say let the bastards starve. <BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:04:31 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: flyash in mortar
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<PRE>Where is Pyrate?
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:13:58 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Devonshire <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pidgeons
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In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> How to hunt pheasant with a really long stick.
>
I like to think of it as an ornithological evacuation device.
V.I.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">How to hunt pheasant with a really long stick.
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>I like to think of it as an ornithological evacuation device.
<BR>
<BR>V.I.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:34:52 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: flyash in mortar
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> > Does anybody have an opinion on flyash in mortar for repointing?
What
> > characteristics would it impart?
>
>
> Eric:
>
> My opinion is that it would be an extremely bad idea to use flyash in
a
> pointing mortar. I've made repair mortars with a flyash component to
impart
> some special properties, such as self leveling. I've also developed
masonry
> cements and masonry mortars. Using flyash in a masonry mortar seems
> misguided at the least.
>
> Flyash is a pozzolan. Some of the glassy and mineral phases in
flyash react
> with dissolved calcium hydroxide in water. Alkalies and salt can
speed up
> the reaction. However, water is an essential part of the reaction,
which
> proceeds slower than that of water with Portland Cement. Of all the
mortar
> varieties, pointing mortars dry out the fastest because they are on
the
> exterior of a wall. The flyash would take months, if not years or
decades,
> to perform in any way other than as a filler.
>
> Somebody mentioned metakaolin in this thread. Metakaolin is not
flyash.
>
> Flyash also tends to make a more-flowable mortar than a mortar made
with
> hydrated lime, etc. These mortars also do not retain water very
well. A
> pointing mortar made with a flyash component may alternately run-out
and then
> fall-out of the joint. Mason productivity would plummet before they
went on
> strike or quit.
>
> There are two main types of flyash in the United States. Type F
flyash is
> produced from eastern, bituminous coals. Type C flyash is produced
from
> western lignite or brown coals. Type F flyash tends to contain more
> pozzolannic material whereas Type C flyash is slightly cementitious.
Type F
> flyash tends to be darker in color than Type C flyash. Mortars made
with
> Type F ash may cause a mortar to be dark gray.
>
> One could make a masonry cement that contains flyash. I expect that
it would
> have some unusual strength and performance characteristics. The
masonry
> cement may perform better at high temperatures, it may resist
weathering
> better if it was moist cured for months before being exposed to
driving
> rains, and, it may lessen the chance for ASR and sulfate
deterioration.
> These features would not show up in any of the standard ASTM mortar
tests.
> None of these possible positive features have a practical application
on the
> Earth. If you added the material to masonry cement, the likely
consequence
> is that you would simply complicate the product, increase the
production
> costs, and increase the risk of a failure after the occasional
batching
> error.
>
> Having flyash on a jobsite would be asking for trouble. Flyash tends
to blow
> everywhere, even if it is bagged. One could make a big mess and
maybe even
> get fined without any effort at all.
>
> In short, it would be pointless to incorporate flyash in a pointing
mortar.
>
> Steve Stokowski
> Stone Products Consultants
> Building Products Microscopy
> 10 Clark St., Ste. A
> Ashland, Mass. 01721-2145
> 508-881-6364 (ph. & fax)
> http://members.aol.com/crushstone/petro.htm
>
>
I find Steve's comments very interesting, but I'm not sure I can agree
with all of the points he makes. While I won't claim to have any great
expertise on the subject of flyash, I have worked with some of the
eastern, dark grey "F" material without disastrous effects. It is
commonly used as an extender for Portland cement, and a considerable
proportion of Portland cement, as I understand it, becomes calcium
hydroxide (hydrated lime) on contact with water.
The MSDS for this Type F material reveals a very high silica content.
The particle size is very small, so Steve is right about not wanting to
handle it in the wind, though it wasn't so bad in a somewhat controlled
factory environment.
The reaction chemistry that Steve describes is what I think makes
flyash potentially useful in certain compositions. I remember reading
through some Flyash Symposium literature in my library, and one of the
uses discussed in some detail involved the use of fly ash and lime as a
self-healing grout for use in highway roadbed stabilization. The
mixture, if proportioned properly, would have a reasonable sort of set
time, like portland cement, while retaining some of the properties of
lime such as permeability, self-healing and low modulus.
I left the lime conference last February convinced that the highly
touted hydraulic lime is not very different from this - lime
accelerated with fine silica. If one were willing to do some research,
and could find good, consistent sources of flyash, one could
conceivably produce hydraulic lime mortars that have the benefits of
lime with the early rain and frost resistance of cement-lime
combinations.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:36:24 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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At 4:59 PM -0500 10/29/02, Ralph Walter wrote:
In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:15:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.
What difference does it make? They're inescapable.
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:40:26 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If it wasn't for my MAC I wouldn't be here at all, it's the only kind of
computer I know how to use. Son has a Dell but he's always using it so I
don't have the opportunity to get hold of it to figure it out. Don't even
know how to turn it on. Sign me--Don't you understand the English on my
computer. Whasamatta with my face.
At 9:23 AM -0500 10/29/02, Ralph Walter wrote:
In a message dated 10/28/2002 10:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Steve,
You got dat right, which is another reason I don't like MAC, because of
that cheap-looking typeface they use. One must maintain one's standards,
mustn't one?
Ralph
--
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[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:18:33 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 9:01:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Sign me--Don't you understand the English on my
> computer. Whasamatta with my face.
>
Ruth,
We understand your English just fine. And the typeface in your enail is fine,
too. My whine about Macs is about the typeface they use internally (or their
default typeface, or something), which looks cheesy to me. However, it
didn't stop me from spending a ton of money repairing and upgrading on the
Twentieth Anniversary Mac I picked up down at The Summit Mall (I thought it
was some weird tricycle when I first saw it). The TAM now sits behind me as I
write this and I refuse to to give to The Little Ralphs, even though about
all I use it for is it's built-in radio and CD player.
Sign me,
Semiloyal PC User
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/2002 9:01:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Sign me--Don't you understand the English on my<BR>
computer. Whasamatta with my face.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ruth,<BR>
<BR>
We understand your English just fine. And the typeface in your enail is fine, too. My whine about Macs is about the typeface they use internally (or their default typeface, or something), which looks cheesy to me. However, it didn't stop me from spending a ton of money repairing and upgrading on the Twentieth Anniversary Mac I picked up down at The Summit Mall (I thought it was some weird tricycle when I first saw it). The TAM now sits behind me as I write this and I refuse to to give to The Little Ralphs, even though about all I use it for is it's built-in radio and CD player.<BR>
<BR>
Sign me,<BR>
<BR>
Semiloyal PC User</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:49:49 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ralph Walter
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:19 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
>=20
>=20
> My whine about Macs is about the=20
> typeface they use internally (or their default typeface, or=20
> something), which looks cheesy to me. However, it didn't=20
> stop me from spending a ton of money repairing and upgrading=20
> on the Twentieth Anniversary Mac I picked up down at The=20
> Summit Mall (I thought it was some weird tricycle when I=20
> first saw it). The TAM now sits behind me as I write this and=20
> I refuse to to give to The Little Ralphs, even though about=20
> all I use it for is it's built-in radio and CD player.
First, I congratulate you on your acquisition of a 20th Anniversary Mac.
You are wise to safeguard it from TLRs; in 50 years, it will be a
treasure worth more to them than a few computer games and gum wads
stuffed into the keyboard today. Be sure your will restricts them from
using it or selling it before its full value is realized; if you can't
trust them, then will it to me. I'll take care of it for you.
Now, you curmudgeonly atavistic throwback (one of my very favorite terms
dredged from the Department of Repetitive Redundancy Division): we are
on the threshold of the 30th Anniversary Mac. You need to get with the
program. OSX oozes a sylvan lushness. The Chicago font is gone. Dead.
History. Hie thee over to yon Apple Store and drive a machine with OSX.
I've been running it exclusively at home for months now with no
problems, only delight, and it's only going to get better. Makes coming
into work and using this PeeCee even more distasteful now than it ever
was. Of course, the Microsoft hegemony exists over there too, but at
least it is customizable unlike AOL hegemony.
HTH,
__________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! Now
Raleigh Historic I have a brain!"
Districts Commission - Scarecrow
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:37:42 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: John Callan, Architect
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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--------------29DF9B7E6A5CE378C39EA0EF
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Not so. But you would have to be courageous and try something outside
of the "standard". You'll have to learn that having tens of thousands
of software programs available is not superior to having a couple
thousand of the most superior programs available...not that anyone in
their right mind needs more than five or six drawing programs, a dozen
or so photo imaging and page lay out programs and goodness knows two or
three data base, word processing and spread sheet programs are enough.
Still I am very impressed that all those folks who fall under the sway
of Evil Bill's charismatic leadership use all those thousands of
programs. They must learn software very quickly. Probably because
Windows is a model of simplicity.
-jc
Ralph Walter wrote:
> In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:15:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>> I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.
>
> What difference does it make? They're inescapable.
>
> Ralph
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tel;work:651 486-0890
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version:2.1
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:38:52 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 9:50:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> First, I congratulate you on your acquisition of a 20th Anniversary Mac.
> Thank you. As noted it came from the Summit Mall, otherwise there's no way
> in hell I woulda gotten one considering the initial sales price of several
> grand or whatever the hell it was. However, since all good things wind up
> at The Mall eventually, and I was there at the right time, and it looked
> interesting, here it is. You are wise to safeguard it from TLRs; in 50
> years, it will be a
> treasure worth more to them than a few computer games and gum wads
> stuffed into the keyboard today. What could possibly worth more than one's
> children's short term destructive happiness? Be sure your will restricts
> them from using it or selling it before its full value is realized; if you
> can't
> trust them, then will it to me. I'll take care of it for you. You are very
> kind to offer your services.
>
> Now, you curmudgeonly atavistic throwback (one of my very favorite terms
> dredged from the Department of Repetitive Redundancy Is that the same thing
> as redundant, repetitious and saying the same thing over and over and over
> again? Division): we are on the threshold of the 30th Anniversary Mac. How
> nice for us all. You need to get with the program. OSX oozes a sylvan
> lushness. I've seen it, and it looks pretty neat,m alright. The Chicago
> font is gone. Dead. If it was on fire, I wouldn't piss on it. History. Hie
> thee over to yon Apple Store and drive a machine with OSX. I've been
> running it exclusively at home for months now with no problems, only
> delight, and it's only going to get better. Ex-Cousin-In-Law Karen the
> Wealthy has one of those gigantic flat cookie sheet monitors that was about
> the coolest thing I ever saw. But she doesn't shop at The Summit Mall--
> she's so rich she can afford to buy new and retail, although with her
> connections I don't imagine she pays full price, either.
> into work and using this PeeCee even more distasteful now than it ever
> was. Of course, the Microsoft hegemony exists over there too, but at
> least it is customizable unlike AOL hegemony. Sore Loser!
>
> HTH,
What means this HTH? No doubt some secret MAC club equivalent to the Pinhead
Salute.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/2002 9:50:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">First, I congratulate you on your acquisition of a 20th Anniversary Mac. <B>Thank you. As noted it came from the Summit Mall, otherwise there's no way in hell I woulda gotten one considering the initial sales price of several grand or whatever the hell it was. However, since all good things wind up at The Mall eventually, and I was there at the right time, and it looked interesting, here it is. </B>You are wise to safeguard it from TLRs; in 50 years, it will be a<BR>
treasure worth more to them than a few computer games and gum wads<BR>
stuffed into the keyboard today. <B>What could possibly worth more than one's children's short term destructive happiness? </B>Be sure your will restricts them from using it or selling it before its full value is realized; if you can't<BR>
trust them, then will it to me. I'll take care of it for you. <B>You are very kind to offer your services.</B><BR>
<BR>
Now, you curmudgeonly atavistic throwback (one of my very favorite terms<BR>
dredged from the Department of Repetitive Redundancy <B>Is that the same thing as redundant, repetitious and saying the same thing over and over and over again?</B> Division): we are on the threshold of the 30th Anniversary Mac. <B>How nice for us all. </B>You need to get with the program. OSX oozes a sylvan lushness. <B>I've seen it, and it looks pretty neat,m alright. </B>The Chicago font is gone. Dead. <B>If it was on fire, I wouldn't piss on it. </B> History. Hie thee over to yon Apple Store and drive a machine with OSX. I've been running it exclusively at home for months now with no problems, only delight, and it's only going to get better. <B>Ex</B>-<B>Cousin-In-Law Karen the Wealthy has one of those gigantic flat cookie sheet monitors that was about the coolest thing I ever saw. But she doesn't shop at The Summit Mall-- she's so rich she can afford to buy new and retail, although with her connections I don't imagine she pays full price, either.</B><BR>
into work and using this PeeCee even more distasteful now than it ever<BR>
was. Of course, the Microsoft hegemony exists over there too, but at<BR>
least it is customizable unlike AOL hegemony. <B>Sore Loser!</B><BR>
<BR>
HTH,</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<B>What means this HTH? No doubt some secret MAC club equivalent to the Pinhead Salute.</B><BR>
<BR>
<B>Ralph</B><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cork floors
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Eric ; thanks for that input;;;its what I needed to hear best Pyrate
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:47:05 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Candice Brashears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
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FYI to Pinheads.
Candy
An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.
Ken Santi, of the National Park Service, (570) 420-9782, has invited people
with an interest in Dutch barns to visit the Westbrook Dutch Barn at 10AM
Monday, November 4. It is in the Delaware Water Gap Nat. Rec. Area and is
undergoing some siding removal. They want to document it and collect ideas
about it. If you are interested or know of someone contact Ken or Peter
Sinclair [log in to unmask]
Rolland Miner
Director
NWDB Survey 2000
http://nwdb2000.homestead.com/home.html
[log in to unmask]
e-list: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:38:21 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ralph Walter
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:39 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
>=20
>=20
> In a message dated 10/30/2002 9:50:26 AM, Dan.Becker writes:
>=20
>> HTH,
>=20
>=20
> What means this HTH? No doubt some secret MAC club=20
> equivalent to the Pinhead Salute.
Hope this helps you figure it out.
__________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! Now
Raleigh Historic I have a brain!"
Districts Commission - Scarecrow
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:19:22 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_14a.16b02472.2af1df1a_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 11:49:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.
>
If possible take some digitals and post them on pig-habit.
Steve
--part1_14a.16b02472.2af1df1a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/30/2002 11:49:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
If possible take some digitals and post them on pig-habit.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:28:39 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
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From: Ken Follett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dymaxion House
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Dymaxion House
I'm not sure if pilgrimage is an appropriate phrase, but last September I di=
d=20
not hesitate to take advantage of an opportunity to visit Buckminster=20
Fuller's sole surviving Dymaxion house at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn,=
=20
Michigan. This structure has been discussed previously on BP.=20
Contrary to previous conjecture of the preservationeers, the edifice is not=20
located outdoors in Greenfield Village, which retains a 19th century motif,=20
but inside the main building of the museum. In the context in which it is=20
placed, in a museum housing mobile homes and campers, aircraft, steam=20
tractors, guns and a whole lot of different automobiles, the visionary=20
structure seems quite appropriately placed.
Visiting the shrine, which you can enter and walk through, you are escorted=20
by a saleswoman circa. 1945, in full ankle-length dress costume with I assum=
e=20
a Michigan accent. She takes care to explain the features of the house and=20
regales us with the modern conveniences (the submarine interior=20
claustrophobic housing, yet seductively curvaceous, bins of single-occupancy=
=20
toilets and shower cubbies is simply inspiring to those who aspire to water=20
sports - though Ralph would never fit) in hopes that we tourists will make a=
n=20
investment. This structure is one of two that were combined to make this one=
.=20
It, or one of two, we are informed by a pleasant woman pretending to be olde=
r=20
than our mother, had been lived in by a family for twenty years, though how=20
they lived in the structure, what they thought day by day, may make for an=20
interesting journal. How do people deal with round walls and pie wedge rooms=
?=20
Did they feel fertile without the luxury of an old fashioned square boxed=20
fireplace? What happens in a wind and these things get to rock around with a=
=20
waterbed?
From the one photograph on the wall, outside the structure that is housed=20
inside the bigger structure of the museum (they say less than 20% of Ford's=20
collection is in the museum and that the remaining 80% is scattered across a=
=20
mosaic of Detroit warehouses), that is shown it reveals that the life of the=
=20
"future" residence seemed to have branched off into a multi-leveled and quit=
e=20
rectangular appendage of masonry hydra four or five times the size of the=20
metal domicile itself. I was reminded of the Star Ship Enterprise, only a=20
space ship replicated in a reddish tan stone and firmly attached to earth.=20
Horizontal lines of rectangular masonry housing flaring off from the shiny=20
aluminum of a tenuous ball anchor. I was curiously pleased to see that left=20
to the unhindered homeowner that masonry appears to have won out.
It is a metal house we visit and walk through, predominantly, manufactured b=
y=20
Beech Aircraft in an attempt to utilize their expertise and resource in=20
manufacture of aircraft for a post-WW2 economy. It makes one wonder how much=
=20
of Fuller's vision was the retrofit of a left over technology only marketed=20
in a spiffed up splatter-shot of chromium clad words? If this little nomad's=
=20
hut were made of twisted titanium what would we have to say? Maintenance=E2=
=80=A6 I=20
suppose Windex and that stuff you use to remove scratches from an auto body=20
finish. Heaven forbid if you happen to spill a quart of motor oil on the=20
living room floor, needless to even consider a habitation for untrained=20
poodle pups, regardless of the form of newsprint used. My Grandmother, alway=
s=20
wanting to preserve the rugs and the furniture, would have shrink-wrapped th=
e=20
entire building.
There is wood and plastic in the house, but the overall impression is one of=
=20
aluminum sheets riveted together. Having been built previous to air=20
conditioning my immediate concern was wondering how hot this thing would get=
=20
set out in the noonday sun. Then wondering about tornadoes and hurricanes. I=
t=20
would probably bounce, indomitably refusing to let loose of its animate or=20
inanimate contents. Granted, the roof sports a gigantic revolving ventilator=
,=20
not unlike what would be seen on a chicken coop. I cannot imagine that it wa=
s=20
not often too hot living in these things.
It is true, and a wonder of design, that the whole machine hangs from a=20
central pole. There is an area of cut-away on the interior in the=20
reconstruction and you can see the wires and the buckles and hasps and it is=
=20
simply amazing how it hangs.
At the end I was asked if I would like to invest and I offered to purchase=20
fifty of them. I was told I must be wealthy and I said, "No, but I can tell=20=
a=20
right smart investment when I see one." Yuk. I then wandered off to look at=20
the collection of wood burning stoves (none of them would fit conveniently=20
and their flue stacks sticking up like pointy nozzles would ruin the great=20
lines), steam engines (larger than the house) and sewing machines wherein=20
contemplation of adapting these domestic devices to the shapes of modernity=20
just about wore out my visit to the museum.
][<en
--part1_18b.10ad3321.2af1e147_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en
<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Dymaxion House<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure if pilgrimage is an appropriate phrase, but last September I di=
d not hesitate to take advantage of an opportunity to visit Buckminster Full=
er's sole surviving Dymaxion house at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mic=
higan. This structure has been discussed previously on BP. <BR>
<BR>
Contrary to previous conjecture of the preservationeers, the edifice is not=20=
located outdoors in Greenfield Village, which retains a 19th century motif,=20=
but inside the main building of the museum. In the context in which it is pl=
aced, in a museum housing mobile homes and campers, aircraft, steam tractors=
, guns and a whole lot of different automobiles, the visionary structure see=
ms quite appropriately placed.<BR>
<BR>
Visiting the shrine, which you can enter and walk through, you are escorted=20=
by a saleswoman circa. 1945, in full ankle-length dress costume with I assum=
e a Michigan accent. She takes care to explain the features of the house and=
regales us with the modern conveniences (the submarine interior claustropho=
bic housing, yet seductively curvaceous, bins of single-occupancy toilets an=
d shower cubbies is simply inspiring to those who aspire to water sports - t=
hough Ralph would never fit) in hopes that we tourists will make an investme=
nt. This structure is one of two that were combined to make this one. It, or=
one of two, we are informed by a pleasant woman pretending to be older than=
our mother, had been lived in by a family for twenty years, though how they=
lived in the structure, what they thought day by day, may make for an inter=
esting journal. How do people deal with round walls and pie wedge rooms? Did=
they feel fertile without the luxury of an old fashioned square boxed firep=
lace? What happens in a wind and these things get to rock around with a wate=
rbed?<BR>
<BR>
From the one photograph on the wall, outside the structure that is housed in=
side the bigger structure of the museum (they say less than 20% of Ford's co=
llection is in the museum and that the remaining 80% is scattered across a m=
osaic of Detroit warehouses), that is shown it reveals that the life of the=20=
"future" residence seemed to have branched off into a multi-leveled and quit=
e rectangular appendage of masonry hydra four or five times the size of the=20=
metal domicile itself. I was reminded of the Star Ship Enterprise, only a sp=
ace ship replicated in a reddish tan stone and firmly attached to earth. Hor=
izontal lines of rectangular masonry housing flaring off from the shiny alum=
inum of a tenuous ball anchor. I was curiously pleased to see that left to t=
he unhindered homeowner that masonry appears to have won out.<BR>
<BR>
It is a metal house we visit and walk through, predominantly, manufactured b=
y Beech Aircraft in an attempt to utilize their expertise and resource in ma=
nufacture of aircraft for a post-WW2 economy. It makes one wonder how much o=
f Fuller's vision was the retrofit of a left over technology only marketed i=
n a spiffed up splatter-shot of chromium clad words? If this little nomad's=20=
hut were made of twisted titanium what would we have to say? Maintenance=E2=
=80=A6 I suppose Windex and that stuff you use to remove scratches from an a=
uto body finish. Heaven forbid if you happen to spill a quart of motor oil o=
n the living room floor, needless to even consider a habitation for untraine=
d poodle pups, regardless of the form of newsprint used. My Grandmother, alw=
ays wanting to preserve the rugs and the furniture, would have shrink-wrappe=
d the entire building.<BR>
<BR>
There is wood and plastic in the house, but the overall impression is one of=
aluminum sheets riveted together. Having been built previous to air conditi=
oning my immediate concern was wondering how hot this thing would get set ou=
t in the noonday sun. Then wondering about tornadoes and hurricanes. It woul=
d probably bounce, indomitably refusing to let loose of its animate or inani=
mate contents. Granted, the roof sports a gigantic revolving ventilator, not=
unlike what would be seen on a chicken coop. I cannot imagine that it was n=
ot often too hot living in these things.<BR>
<BR>
It is true, and a wonder of design, that the whole machine hangs from a cent=
ral pole. There is an area of cut-away on the interior in the reconstruction=
and you can see the wires and the buckles and hasps and it is simply amazin=
g how it hangs.<BR>
<BR>
At the end I was asked if I would like to invest and I offered to purchase f=
ifty of them. I was told I must be wealthy and I said, "No, but I can tell a=
right smart investment when I see one." Yuk. I then wandered off to look at=
the collection of wood burning stoves (none of them would fit conveniently=20=
and their flue stacks sticking up like pointy nozzles would ruin the great l=
ines), steam engines (larger than the house) and sewing machines wherein con=
templation of adapting these domestic devices to the shapes of modernity jus=
t about wore out my visit to the museum.<BR>
<BR>
][<en<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:36:36 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Windows
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is from another list. I figured someone from this list might be able to
help.
Steve
We are desperately trying to find windows to fit in the two first
floor openings pictured here: (well, you can only see one because of
the shadow). http://www.wscottsmith.com/images/March2002d.jpg
The openings are about 34"x36"...we can work with sashes smaller than
this
What we are looking for are two pairs of casement sashes (just the
sashes) that will fit inside/behind these wooden bars. If we can't
find casements (i.e., hinges on the side), we'll take just about
anything we can find.
While our house is late 1700s/early 1800s, we see a lot of the windows
that we're looking for on craftsman bungalows, foursquares, etc.
However, the only ones that we've seen are in occupied
dwellings...darn.
Anyone seen any of these lying around? anyone? anyone? Bueller?
Scott Smith
Dicks-Elliott House, ca. 1795-1812
Lynchburg, Virga.
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:18:59 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Candice Brashears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_c.133a152.2af1ed13_boundary"
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In a message dated 10/30/02 8:20:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >> An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.
>>
>
> If possible take some digitals and post them on pig-habit.
>
> Steve
Love to Steve, however I ain't gonna make it there myself.
darn barn
--part1_c.133a152.2af1ed13_boundary
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/02 8:20:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
If possible take some digitals and post them on pig-habit.<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Love to Steve, however I ain't gonna make it there myself.<BR>
darn barn</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:49:33 -0500
Reply-To: "S. Sasser" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "S. Sasser" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Candy,
Thanks for the heads up! It sounds like a great opportunity for Pinhead
investigations and field trips. I imagine the foliage is particularly nice
at the Water Gap right now as well. If anyone makes it out there I would
love to hear a report, and please give my regards to Ken (Sandri), a veteran
of several IPTWs, and a most excellent preservation specialist.
Lisa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Candice Brashears" Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:47 AM
Subject: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
> Ken Santi, of the National Park Service, (570) 420-9782, has invited
people
> with an interest in Dutch barns to visit the Westbrook Dutch Barn at 10AM
> Monday, November 4. . .
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:16:31 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: hydraulic lime
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Please excuse my ignorance but, what is hydraulic lime? I'm familiar with
mag lime--and I guess there's one that's not mag lime. But we spread them
on our fields to combat acid soil conditions. Hydraulics are for things
like jacks to pick up the back end of the tractor to change the tires, etc.
So now I'm confused--what else is new? Ruth
At 10:34 PM -0500 10/29/02, M. P. Edison wrote:
>I left the lime conference last February convinced that the highly
>touted hydraulic lime is not very different from this - lime
>accelerated with fine silica. If one were willing to do some research,
>and could find good, consistent sources of flyash, one could
>conceivably produce hydraulic lime mortars that have the benefits of
>lime with the early rain and frost resistance of cement-lime
>combinations.
>
>Edison Coatings, Inc.
>M. P. Edison
>President
>3 Northwest Drive
>Plainville, CT 06062 USA
>Phone: (860)747-2220
>Fax: (860)747-2280
>email: [log in to unmask]
>Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
>
>--
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>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
><http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:45:14 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Where did this come from
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have never gotten this crazy message before and wonder if anyone knows
why I got it now? Do you all get messages like this when you send
redundant e-mails? Ruth
PS: Who sits and reads this stuff to know that 2 messages are exactly the
same? Sounds like a good job. Where should I apply? Ruth
[log in to unmask]
To: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Status: O
Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears to have
already been distributed to the BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS list. That is, a message
with identical text (but possibly with different mail headers) has been posted
to the list recently, either by you or by someone else. If you have a good
reason to resend this message to the list (for instance because you have been
notified of a hardware failure with loss of data), please alter the text of the
message in some way and resend it to the list. Note that altering the
"Subject:" line or adding blank lines at the top or bottom of the message is
not sufficient; you should instead add a sentence or two at the top explaining
why you are resending the message, so that the other subscribers understand why
they are getting two copies of the same message.
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:36:28 -0800
To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interim rule #4
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At 4:59 PM -0500 10/29/02, Ralph Walter wrote:
In a message dated 10/29/2002 1:15:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I'm wondering what horrors AOL.8.0 will bring.
What difference does it make? They're inescapable.
Ralph
--
Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:04:03 -0800
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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What is a "Dutch barn?" Ruth
At 11:47 AM -0500 10/30/02, Candice Brashears wrote:
>FYI to Pinheads.
>Candy
>
>An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.
>
>Ken Santi, of the National Park Service, (570) 420-9782, has invited people
>with an interest in Dutch barns to visit the Westbrook Dutch Barn at 10AM
>Monday, November 4. It is in the Delaware Water Gap Nat. Rec. Area and is
>undergoing some siding removal. They want to document it and collect ideas
>about it. If you are interested or know of someone contact Ken or Peter
>Sinclair [log in to unmask]
>
>Rolland Miner
>Director
>NWDB Survey 2000
>http://nwdb2000.homestead.com/home.html
>[log in to unmask]
>e-list: [log in to unmask]
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Ruth Barton
[log in to unmask]
Westminster, VT
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 23:10:50 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hydraulic lime
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In a message dated 10/30/02 11:04:44 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Please excuse my ignorance but, what is hydraulic lime?
Ruth, I always thought it was lime grown under water - like on spaceships,
for their gin & tonics. Right, Steve?
--part1_6a.286ebc33.2af2074a_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/02 11:04:44 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Please excuse my ignorance but, what is hydraulic lime? </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ruth, I always thought it was lime grown under water - like on spaceships, for their gin & tonics. Right, Steve? </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:18:24 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Hicks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Windows
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 8:37:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> We are desperately trying to find windows to fit in the two first
>
"find" or buy?
Check out <A HREF="www.hhirschmannltd.com">www.hhirschmannltd.com</A>
jh
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/2002 8:37:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We are desperately trying to find windows to fit in the two first<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
"find" or buy?<BR>
Check out <A HREF="www.hhirschmannltd.com">www.hhirschmannltd.com</A><BR>
jh<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:56:05 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Windows
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In a message dated 10/31/02 6:19:41 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> We are desperately trying to find windows to fit in the two first
>
Isn't there a future in tailored theft of architectural elements? Car
thieves take orders for certain cars, then cruise the streets to find one to
steal. Wouldn't it be neat to come home and find your front windows missing?
Signed, Felonious Monk
PS Please note considerately condensed "reply-quote" line above.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/31/02 6:19:41 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We are desperately trying to find windows to fit in the two first<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Isn't there a future in tailored theft of architectural elements? Car thieves take orders for certain cars, then cruise the streets to find one to steal. Wouldn't it be neat to come home and find your front windows missing? Signed, Felonious Monk<BR>
<BR>
PS Please note considerately condensed "reply-quote" line above. <BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:13:30 -0500
Reply-To: deb bledsoe <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: deb bledsoe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
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Candy, thanks for the heads up on this. I would like to attend this event,
but will be working in the city on Monday...
So, if anyone does plan to attend, could you let me know how it goes, and
perhaps share what you learned, and/or share photos?
Thanks again,
deb "barn-X" bledsoe
646-208-3812
----- Original Message -----
From: "Candice Brashears" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:47 AM
Subject: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
> FYI to Pinheads.
> Candy
>
> An opportunity to study a Dutch barn frame, from the outside.
>
> Ken Santi, of the National Park Service, (570) 420-9782, has invited
people
> with an interest in Dutch barns to visit the Westbrook Dutch Barn at 10AM
> Monday, November 4. It is in the Delaware Water Gap Nat. Rec. Area and is
> undergoing some siding removal. They want to document it and collect ideas
> about it. If you are interested or know of someone contact Ken or Peter
> Sinclair [log in to unmask]
>
> Rolland Miner
> Director
> NWDB Survey 2000
> http://nwdb2000.homestead.com/home.html
> [log in to unmask]
> e-list: [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:56:13 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
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From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. P. Edison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> It seems to me a fair conclusion that this stuff is some sort
> of latex=20
> paint. There is good latex paint and cheap latex paint. We don't know=20
> which variety this particular one is. If the purpose of the paint is=20
> decorative, why apply the equivalent of 10 coats at once? One or two=20
> coats now with a refresher every 10 - 15 years would make more sense.=20
> If there is some other reason for using such a thick paint, I guess I=20
> just don't get it from the information provided.
I would tend to agree with you on the face of it, but from my inspection
of the material in situ, it struck me as much MUCH harder than one would
expect a really thick coat of latex paint to be. There was another
product back in the mid-80s, "Siding in a Can," that we were able to get
specific product data for, and it _was_ a thick latex paint. This
material presents a different appearance than that product did. My
nagging intuition, which admittedly is all I have to go on, is that
"Spray on Siding" is more akin to a petrochemical-based sprayable
plastic coating. It had no give at all under the Official Fingernail
Press Test, which I would expect a thick latex to have some give.
Perhaps my sense of the hardness of latex is at error.
I've never thought of paint as decorative, and it steams me when I see
painters treat it as a decorative color change only. It is first and
foremost a protective coating, which has a collateral benefit of being
able to have color applied to a decorative end. But the idea of a
continuous coating, with care exercised in ensuring that caulk is well
done, that the coating is seamless and adequate in thickness for the
purpose of protecting the substrate from water infiltration, seems to
elude a lot of people. So I guess the reason for a thick coating, if in
fact it has vapor permeability, would be a higher percentage assurance
of adequate protection.
So then I get back to the failure mode discussion and the reversibility
issue; if it's plastic and it cracks, what the hell do we have then? And
what do we do? Does it scrape off like paint when it finally reaches its
point of adhesion failure? Only time will tell.
Cheers,
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:57:45 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: M. P. Edison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: Coating analysis interpretation
Dan,
Additional comments on your response are below.
Mike E.
> I would tend to agree with you on the face of it, but from my
inspection
> of the material in situ, it struck me as much MUCH harder than one
would
> expect a really thick coat of latex paint to be. There was another=20
> product back in the mid-80s, "Siding in a Can," that we were able to
get
> specific product data for, and it _was_ a thick latex paint. This=20
> material presents a different appearance than that product did. My=20
> nagging intuition, which admittedly is all I have to go on, is that=20
> "Spray on Siding" is more akin to a petrochemical-based sprayable=20
> plastic coating. It had no give at all under the Official Fingernail=20
> Press Test, which I would expect a thick latex to have some give.=20
> Perhaps my sense of the hardness of latex is at error.
Hardness is a tricky thing to evaluate, sometimes. For one thing, it=20
has a lot to do with temperature. Polymers are often characterized in=20
terms of "Tg", the glass transition temperature. Each polymer has a=20
specific temperature at which it changes from a somewhat flexible,=20
rubbery material to a hard, glassy material. The liquid siding product=20
reports an elongation of 150%, presumably at or near room temperature.=20
But if it has a Tg of say, 55 F, it might seem awfully hard on a=20
chilly late October day.
Fillers also have a big influence on hardness. Take some fairly soft=20
paint and add some sand and you may get something that feels=20
relatively hard.=20
As for latex vs. "petrochemical", I assume you are thinking of the old=20
solvent-borne industrial enamel coatings we used to see. Latex=20
polymers can be hard, soft, flat, glossy or anywhere in between, and=20
it is pretty hard to tell some of them from the old solvent-borne=20
coatings any more. Acrylic polymers are derived from natural gas,=20
regardless of whether they are acrylic latex or dispersed in solvent=20
or molded into tail light lenses for your car.
>=20
> I've never thought of paint as decorative, and it steams me when I
see
> painters treat it as a decorative color change only. It is first and=20
> foremost a protective coating, which has a collateral benefit of
being
> able to have color applied to a decorative end. But the idea of a=20
> continuous coating, with care exercised in ensuring that caulk is
well
> done, that the coating is seamless and adequate in thickness for the=20
> purpose of protecting the substrate from water infiltration, seems to=20
> elude a lot of people. So I guess the reason for a thick coating, if
in
> fact it has vapor permeability, would be a higher percentage
assurance
> of adequate protection.
Film thickness is not the only way to achieve film integrity.=20
Different materials have different chemical structures, so 1 or 2 mils=20
of self-crosslinking polyurethane (0.001 - 0.002" thickness) can be=20
far more waterproof than 5 to 8 mils of a typical acrylic latex, not=20
to mention far more chemical resistant. Vapor permeability also=20
relates to film integrity and some breathable coatings rely on lots of=20
film imperfections to achieve that permeability.
>=20
> So then I get back to the failure mode discussion and the
reversibility
> issue; if it's plastic and it cracks, what the hell do we have then?
And
> what do we do? Does it scrape off like paint when it finally reaches
its
> point of adhesion failure? Only time will tell.
Mode of failure is an important observation in accelerated weather=20
testing. Did it chalk? erode? crack? peel? swell? yellow? The liquid=20
siding guys don't tell us, they just say "Excellent". If the coating=20
is reasonably UV stable, the expected mode of failure would be slow=20
erosion. If it embrittles with age, it could be a much less tolerable=20
change.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:08:08 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> From: M. P. Edison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 6:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> But if it has a Tg of say, 55 F, it might seem awfully hard on a=20
> chilly late October day.
My site inspection was this past summer. It was hot. The coating was
hard.
Sign me, dan hard like my head becker
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:59:55 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Where did this come from
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 10:43:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Do you all get messages like this when you send redundant e-mails?
Ruth,
You musta done something really bad.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/2002 10:43:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Do you all get messages like this when you send redundant e-mails? </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ruth,<BR>
<BR>
You musta done something really bad. <BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:08:17 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Windows
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/31/2002 6:56:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Wouldn't it be neat to come home and find your front windows missing?
Dear Window Boosters Anonymous,
I am looking for 8 sets of windows from a Rosario Candela building to
complete my chicken coop. At least one (1) should have "Whose idea was it to
buy this damn poodle?" etched in the glass with a diamond ring. Need
immediate delivery.
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/31/2002 6:56:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Wouldn't it be neat to come home and find your front windows missing?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
Dear Window Boosters Anonymous,<BR>
<BR>
I am looking for 8 sets of windows from a Rosario Candela building to complete my chicken coop. At least one (1) should have "Whose idea was it to buy this damn poodle?" etched in the glass with a diamond ring. Need immediate delivery.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:12:10 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:56:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> So I guess the reason for a thick coating, if in fact it has vapor
> permeability,
Dear Science Wizards,
Wait a minute. Seems to me that if this stuff is really so thick, it ain't
gonna be permeable. Or am I full of shit, as usual? (Thanks in advance,
Chris)
Ralph
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:56:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">So I guess the reason for a thick coating, if in fact it has vapor permeability,</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dear Science Wizards,<BR>
<BR>
Wait a minute. Seems to me that if this stuff is really so thick, it ain't gonna be permeable. Or am I full of shit, as usual? (Thanks in advance, Chris)<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:06:03 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > But if it has a Tg of say, 55 F, it might seem awfully hard on a
> > chilly late October day.
>
> My site inspection was this past summer. It was hot. The coating was
> hard.
>
> Sign me, dan hard like my head becker
>
If the coating is really very hard, then the 150% elongation reported
could be suspect. I don't recall seeing any hardness data, however.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:09:32 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:56:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
> > So I guess the reason for a thick coating, if in fact it has vapor
> > permeability,
>
>
> Dear Science Wizards,
>
> Wait a minute. Seems to me that if this stuff is really so thick, it
ain't
> gonna be permeable. Or am I full of shit, as usual? (Thanks in
advance,
> Chris)
>
> Ralph
>
>
Ralph, I thought you had that sleep thing taken care of. It is
possible to produce thick and breathable coatings, although film
thickness is inversely proportional to permeability, more or less.
Some coatings are like glass, others are like cheesecloth. It takes a
lot of cheesecloth to hold a drink of water.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:13:53 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Candice Brashears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/30/02 10:42:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> What is a "Dutch barn?" Ruth
I'm assuming it is a barn built by the Dutch immigrants (as opposed to Dutch
McGilliculty) Candy
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/02 10:42:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What is a "Dutch barn?" Ruth</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I'm assuming it is a barn built by the Dutch immigrants (as opposed to Dutch McGilliculty) Candy</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:20:16 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Candice Brashears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/30/02 10:42:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> What is a "Dutch barn?" Ruth
Actually the www. link in the address on New World barns takes you to the
site.
candy
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/30/02 10:42:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What is a "Dutch barn?" Ruth</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Actually the www. link in the address on New World barns takes you to the site.<BR>
candy</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:33:57 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Heidi Harendza <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
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In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:15:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< [Hey, whatever
happened to Heidi, anyway?] >>
I'm here. Just keeping my head low-- I've been a little cranky lately. I'm
working on my thesis, and it's a little... convoluted right now. Furthermore
I have all my less-than-favorite classes this semester-- the ones that I've
been avoiding, statistics and research methodology. Oh joy. Oh rapture.
The good news is our department got a nice contract to help with the research
for the 2004 Vernacular Architecture Forum conference, so we've been tooling
around southeastern PA drawing all sorts of neat houses and barns-- so I
haven't been in the office much. It's been kind of hard keeping up with all
of Ralph's mail, but I do my level best.
-Heidi
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:36:21 -0500
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. P. Edison
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
>=20
>=20
> If the coating is really very hard, then the 150% elongation=20
> reported could be suspect. I don't recall seeing any hardness=20
> data, however.
This from their web site list...I never thought of "Tensile Strength" as
a measurement of hardness.
Property Test Method Test Results Benefit
Evaluated
=20
Tensile ASTM D 2370 451 PSI Hardness or=20
Strength
Toughness
__________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "Oh joy! Rapture! Now
Raleigh Historic I have a brain!"
Districts Commission - Scarecrow
[log in to unmask] =20
919/890-3678=20
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:36:42 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Heidi Harendza <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FYI Westbrook Dutch Barn
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In a message dated 10/30/2002 10:42:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< What is a "Dutch barn?" Ruth >>
Ruth-
Here is the definition from _The Old Barn Book_ by Noble and Creek
"This compact gable-front barn is squarish or often somewhat wider than long.
It has large wagon doors, one or both of which are Dutch doors, and single,
small doors near one or both gable end corners. The moderate-to-steep roof
pitch means that the height of the ridge is more than twice the height of the
low side walls. There is little or no projection of roof beyond the wall.
Often a narrow pentice [that is an unsupported overhang] occurs over the
wagon doors. Horizontal siding is usual, and sometimes a diamond-shaped
window is placed high in the gable.
Range: Hudson, Mohawk, and Schoharie River basins of New York; Bergen,
Somerset, Hunterdon, and Monmouth counties of New Jersey, southeastern
Vermont." There is also a Michigan variant.
Basically, a very square barn with low side walls and a steep roof.
Best,
Heidi
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:44:17 EST
Reply-To: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Humbly apologizing petition...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 10/31/2002 2:34:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> It's been kind of hard keeping up with all of Ralph's mail, but I do my
> level best.
>
>
Now we know where all the dues checks are going.
Ralph
--part1_7a.2fd0332d.2af2e211_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/31/2002 2:34:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It's been kind of hard keeping up with all of Ralph's mail, but I do my level best.<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Now we know where all the dues checks are going.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:52:24 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: maybe this could fall apart after the checks clear
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Coating analysis interpretation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > If the coating is really very hard, then the 150% elongation
> > reported could be suspect. I don't recall seeing any hardness
> > data, however.
>
> This from their web site list...I never thought of "Tensile
Strength" as
> a measurement of hardness.
>
> Property Test Method Test Results Benefit
> Evaluated
>
> Tensile ASTM D 2370 451 PSI Hardness or
> Strength
> Toughness
>
> __________________________________________________
> Dan Becker
Tensile strength is NOT a measure of hardness. But you knew that,
didn't you!
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
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