Re: Gabriel Cousens' B-12 material Mark Hovila <[log in to unmask]>: >Well, I wouldn't say it's necessarily persuasive, but what he was saying >seemed reasonable to me. He doesn't just make assertions without giving >some kind of citation or basis to back it up. He cited a number of studies >suggesting that dietary B12 deficiency is rare among healthy vegans and all >other types of vegetarians. He says that low serum levels, without >neurological, hematological or any other clinical evidence of B12 >deficiency, is not necessarily an accurate way to diagnose B12 deficiency. Tom: He cites the Immerman [1981] review paper which claims that earlier studies that allege B-12 deficiency on veg diets, are inconclusive. In the Beyond Veg section on B-12, I critique Immerman's paper and show how his (Immerman's) review criteria were flawed and logically invalid: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-7b.shtml So far, most of the claims that one can show low levels of B-12 without symptoms are traced to old work by Baker (late 70's, early 80's). I have tracked some of these refs down, only to find that the topic is mentioned in passing (maybe 1-2 lines in the ref), with no supporting data/discussion. It *appears* to me that such claims are based on limited evidence. However, I did not cover this claim in the Beyond Veg section as I wanted to do more searching of Baker's work, before commenting on the website on the topic. >He says research shows that between 23.7% to 96.4% of B12 is destroyed by >boiling or baking, depending on the food type and the length of heat >processing. He goes into the causes of B12 deficiency, signs of B12 >deficiency, and he has recommendations for what to do when you have it. >There's lots more, but maybe that gives you a basic idea. Loss of B-12 in cooking is dicussed at: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-7c.shtml The data on cooking loss of B-12 are limited and not very convincing either way, at present. >Yeah, I'm considering supplementation as well. I've avoided it in the past >because I was under the impression that all B12 pills came from dessicated >beef livers or sewage sludge from porta-potties. But I understand that >Hallelujah Acres is selling a vegetarian B12 pill now. It is my understanding that B-12 pills are made using bacterial cultures. All (or nearly all) B-12 pills are vegetarian, so long as they don't contain fillers or stabilizers made from animal products. Tom Billings