good history lesson kyle. my hands feel better since you typed it. -----Original Message----- From: Kyle E. Cleveland [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 9:15 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Vietnam...was RE: U.S. War Crimes ...WAS PISS Well, Vietnam was really controlled by Michelin Rubber interests until post-WWII. General Ho saw an opportunity to move for independence in = the vacuum left by the departing Japanese occupation forces and the = weakened state of French military. Interestingly enough, Ho courted US support = for his move to independence, but was rebuffed. I don't believe he was a dogmatic or even doctrinal Marxist, but an opportunist. Both the = Soviets and the Chinese saw an opportunity for influence in the area and = offered Ho support. The US has always had a nebulous policy towards nations or = people-groups seeking relief from oppression. Our involvement in South East Asia was = not for nation-building or humanitarian reasons. It was simply that = Kennedy's advisors, stung by Nixon's implications that the prez was "soft on communism", were fearful of the "domino" effect. In other words, the political fate of the entire subcontinent of SE Asia rested on which = way the domino would fall in Vietnam. Many people forget, too, that there was not just unilateral involvement = by the US during the sixties, but other nations contributed significant = numbers of troops to the Vietnam conflict--most noticeably, Australia. The = French, after their stunning defeat at Di=EAn Bi=EAn Ph=FA on May 7, 1954, = realized that a military solution to the Vietnam problem was just too costly. They cut their losses and left Indochina for good. Would that the US had = learned from France's mistake. We did learn, 12 years and over 50,000 lives = later. -Kyle=20 -----Original Message----- From: Betty Alfred [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 8:47 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: U.S. War Crimes ...WAS PISS In a message dated 03/06/2000 7:50:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << Because the country was under French colonial rule at the time, = Vietnam never signed the Articles. Interestingly, Japan signed, but never = ratified the treaty. Hence the country's military leaders were able to justify = the abyssmal treatment of civilians and POWs. >> I didn't know these things, so I have learned something new today.