LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for PALEODIET Archives

   

PALEODIET Archives

PALEODIET Archives


PALEODIET@LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PALEODIET Home

PALEODIET Home

PALEODIET  May 1997

PALEODIET May 1997

Subject:

Re: High protein diets, fish and tubers

From:

Loren Cordain <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Paleolithic Diet Symposium List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 7 May 1997 11:39:00 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (124 lines)

In the last digest, Jenny wrote:

"A question about high protien diets:

Have any of you any experience of putting people on high protein diets
with
little CHO?

I have read that most subjects (who were probably insulin sensitive
Caucasians) find this sort of diet nauseating and that experiments are
usually
terminated early.

One experiment succeeded because the investigators added very large
amounts
of salt to the high protein diet.  They did this becuase they noticed
very
high sodium excretion of unsalted high protein diets.

(Ref: Phinney SD, Bistrian BR, Wolfe RR, Blackburn GL (1983) The human
metabolic response to chronic ketosis without caloric restriction:
physical and
biochemical adaptation. Metabolism 32: 757-768.)

I find this fascinating because it might explain the historical and
current
preoccupation with adding salt to food.

I wonder whether the ability to 'tolerate' high protein diets is
determined
bythe degree of genetically determined insulin resistance.

Best wishes  Jennie"

When Stefansson undertook his classic dietary experiment (metabolic ward
controlled) in Bellvue hospital in 1922 in which he consumed an all meat
diet for an entire year (Lieb CW.  The effects of an exclusive,
long-continued meat diet. JAMA 1926;87:25-26), he reported nausea and
illness after the 2nd day of eating large quantities of "chopped fatless
muscle" (Stefansson V.  The Fat of the Land. Macmillan Company, New
York, 1960, p60-89).   Inclusion of fatty meats, brains and bacon
remedied his nausea and he was able to continue the experiment under
metabolic ward conditions in which all food that was consumed was
measured and its nutrient and caloric content measured.  Additionally
his metabolic rate was continually monitored in a  metabolic chamber.
The results of this case study were widely reported in the scientific
and medical literature of the late 1920's and early 30's (I can provide
all of the references if you are interested).   It turned out that his
ad libitum average caloric intake was 2,650 calories/day of which 2,100
calories consisted of fat and 550 calories consisted of protein or about
79% fat & 21% protein.   It is difficult to speculate upon Stefansson's
degree of insulin resistance, however because he was of Northern
European extraction and somewhat overweight while on a normal mixed
diet, it is probable that he was not as insulin resistant as recently
acculturated peoples such as the Inuit, polynesians, Australian
aborigines or Pima Indians.
        Speth has written extensively about excess dietary protein and it seems
likely that unless sufficient carbohydrate or fat are available, the
calories present in wild, lean game animals can only be eaten in limited
quantities.(Speth JD.  Early hominid hunting and scavenging: the role of
meat as an energy source. J Hum Evol 1989;18:329-43; Speth et al.
Energy source, protein metabolism, and Hunter-Gatherer subsistence
strategies. J Anthropol Archaeology 1983;2:1-31).

Staffan writes:

Dean's report from 90 000 year old fishers makes sense. Why on earth
would
they not be fishing since they were just as intelligent as we are and
less
preoccupied with millions of other obligations (like exploring healthy
diets). Perhaps their fishing tools were made from materials which are
less
prone to become fossilized than other artifacts? Any comment from Foss
Leach?

The fossil record which is obviously incomplete generally doesnt show
any evidence of exploitation of the aquatic environment until about
35,000 years ago.   Clearly, part of the problem is that the
technologies which may have been used to capture fish: nets, lines,
weirs and  bone hooks likely disintegrated.   However, there should have
been a record of fossilized portions (heads, tails, fins etc) of uneaten
fish parts along with other animal foods consumed in the caves and camps
of our ancestors.   Except for the recent report from Africa 90,000
years ago, there are virtually no reports showing evidence for large
scale fish consumption.   The date of the African data has been
challenged because of the difficulty in dating fossils in this general
time period (C14 dating only can go back about 40,000yrs).    Since
humans reached Australia by 50,000-60,000 yrs ago, it can be inferred
that they had mastered at least somewhat sophisticated boating/rafting
procedures - it is difficult to believe that they did not exploit the
creatures in the medium in which they sailed.   Also, the sites of most
of the coastal dwelling people (most likely to have consumed fish) are
now under water and generally unavailable for archaeological
exploration.    One final comment - optimal foraging theory would
suggest that the aquatic environment would generally not be exploited
until more easily obtained resources (i.e. large easily killed
pleistocene beasts) were depleted.

Staffan wrote:

What are the specific differences in nutrient density (amount of e.g.
mineral per energy unit) between a wild edible tuber and a cultivated
(and
hence bred) one? I posted exactly that question at the news group
sci.bio.food-science (which seems dominated by professionals) but I only
got more questions. If nobody in this group knows, could someone be so
kind
to take the time and effort to find an expert who has a good answer?

        I know of no specific studies examining nutrient densities between wild
and cultivated tubers, however in Boyd Eaton's most recent article
(Eaton SB et al.  An evolutionary perspective enhances understanding of
human nutritional requirements. J Nutr 1996;126:1732-40) he provides a
table of average nutrient densities of 224 vegetable foods that hunter
gatherers may have eaten.   There are perhaps 30 or more references
which have been provided including some of Jenny Brand-Miller's data on
Aboriginal foods.   Perhaps somewhere in one of these you may find a
specific comparison of wild and cultivated tubers.

                                Cordially,

                                Loren

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2005
October 2005
July 2004
May 2004
March 2004
February 2004
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
September 2002
August 2002
September 2001
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager