* Thomas E. Billings ([log in to unmask]) [990925 07:45]:
> Loren:
> >Regardless of what science "knows" or thinks it "knows," I know what
> >worksfor me, and most people who allow their bodies a chance to get
> >cleaned out.
> >That I exist on 1000 calories or less is not debatable.  It is fact.
> >Whether you choose to doubt the validity of this fact is your business.
>
> Tom:
> The claim that one can thrive on a diet far below starvation levels
> in calorie terms, is the hallmark of fakes. Invariably, if one can
> get additional data on such folks, one might find they are
> under-reporting their actual food intake, and/or binge-eating in
> secret (often on cooked and/or junk food) and lying about it.

Good grief guys, give Loren a break!  Maybe it doesn't
work for you, but it seems to work for Loren.  There
are critisms of fruitarian diets, but even those
critisms almost always allow that it works from some
people, even if not everyone.  Perhaps Loren's diet is
working for him not only because he is genetically
different from Tom and Paul (and others), but it certainly
appears that he is being very careful about eating a
large variety of foods and is doing lots of other
healthful practices (fasting, sunshine, etc.).

Perhaps after 20 or 30 more years, Loren will find
that he needs to change is diet a little, or maybe
not.  So what?   I doubt he is lying.  What purpose
would it serve?

It's kind of disappointing to see all the dogma here.
I'd say the attacks on Loren are nothing but dogma, pure
and simple.  It certainly seems that the Paleo-types are
as dogmatic as anyone, so I'm not sure that Tom has any
grounds to criticize someone else of dogmatism.  BTW, I'm
certainly not implying that NH isn't dogmatic as well.

I don't know about the rest of you, but my goal is to
find 1st) optimal health, and 2nd) longevity.  It's not
to be raw, nor is it to be a caveman.  If raw or paleo or
NH can acheive my real goals, then great.  The trouble
is that I'm pretty sure that none of these "methods" have
been able to show absolute correlations with long-term
health and longevity.

I say that because I always keep the Hunza's of northern
Pakistan as my "sanity" check.  These people were able
to live very long lives (120 - 140 years were not uncommon)
in extremely good health (often claimed to be the world's
healthiest people), with a complete absence of nutritional
degenerative diseases.  Of all the diets/lifestyles I've run
acrossed, Loren's is about as close to the Hunza's as I've
seen.  I'm not saying that this can't be improved upon,
but I don't think anyone's diet has been shown to be even
close to the Hunza's yet in terms of health and longevity.

If Loren has hit upon something good, I'd like to hear
about it, and it looks like there are people on this
list that perhaps have an interest in trying to make him
go away.  It makes me wonder why.

--alan