kirt,

another scathing message from kirt - how sweet.

I had a reference once - does that mean you owe me a nickel?
of course, you didn't like the reference for some reason or other -
you're so picky...

11 years average sounds young - Ward's report on beyondveg states 30 years
(median).  maybe the early death rates bring it down, but I don't know where
arjen got the number.  of course, it's not real relevant to anything
anyway...