>Christopher:
>>Kirt, your usual clear thinking is lamentably absent in the
>>fear-mongering cancer rumor you saw fit to post on 2/16.  Blithely
>>oblivious of facts or causal evidence, you wrote:
><snip>
>>If you must publish a cancer scare, give us specific, checkable facts.

Kirt:
>You'll have to ask the Europeans for the "facts". Several, including Bruno,
>vigorously believe that too much meat results in tumor growth. There are
>apparently many examples which lead them this conclusion.
>
>Mentioning such on this list hardly qualifies as "publishing" however. I'm
>afraid you are supplying the "fear" if you see it as a "fear-mongering
>cancer rumor".
>
>I was hoping that my mention of the belief would spur some serious
>discussion on the matter. Perhaps Stefan or Mike or Carl or ?? can update
>us on the latest tumor rumors...???

What I am writing now is not to be published or has any big data set to
back it up but it  is just a short summary of an article by Guy-Claude
Burger about overload with protein. Unfortunately I don't have the article
here and I have to write from memory. But I try to get the article and if I
can find the time translate it from German into English. Here some points
from the text.

We need to eat meat as one of the many different protein (with protein I
refer to all foods high in protein like nut, avos, seeds, meat, seafood,
insects etc. if there is an other expression for this in the list let me
know I have not deciphered all acronyms).

Proteins can be dangerous for health if not properly digested. Proper
digestion is only guaranteed by eating raw proteins in their original state
with instinctive guidelines.

The closer proteins are to our own genetic makeup the higher the risk of
miss digested proteins or amino acid chains to fool the immune system
opening the door for health problems including cancer.

Overeating raw meat might even be more dangerous than eating moderate
cooked meat because molecules are bigger (breaking down of proteins during
cooking) and hence may be even similar to our own protein. (Comment: not
considering the maillards)

Domesticated animal meat has shown to have much lighter stops than wild
game making overeating easy.

Example 1: One young instincto bought half a pig from an organic farmer (no
instincto quality) and ate the meat within half a year or so. He got
hardened nibbles probably due to an overload of protein.

Example 2: Another instincto could eat 2 - 3 Kg meat per week. After an
exchange of all his meat against ORKOS meat the intake dropped down to 200
- 300 g per week.

The article has a list of about 20 symptoms for protein over load including
loss of no luscious phase eating protein, wild game smelling like beast of
prey , stiffness, fast growing finger nails, more body hair, callosity,
weight loss, ...... tumors, bleedings.

One opposite example: One instincto let the meat out of his diet because of
the possible danger involved if eaten to much. Staying only with seafood
and eggs as RAF he developed a hernia which disappeared after a few weeks
including meats again.

So far the article.

>From my own experience: I could see some of the light symptoms (fast
growing fingernails, callus) develop if I ate huge amounts of one protein
neglecting others (e.g. only nuts or only RAF). Varying the protein
frequently never showed any symptoms even if I ate large amounts of protein
at a time.
I have to remark, if I eat lots of protein in most cases I also eat lots of
fruit/dates or figs with great delight the next meal. The only symptom is a
very strong fatigue after the meal (sometimes after protein, sometimes
after fruit/sugar, sometimes after both meals, but usually after 2 hours I
felt very fresh). This seems very clearly detox.
I increased my flexibility after going higher in meat. My muscles feel
firmer and I tend to put on weight but lose fat when eating meat after
going a while without it.
I had an infection in the mouth (looked like tooth ache from outside) when
I ate lots of RAF (mainly eggs and some meat, seafodd did not show this
effect) without proper balancing with veggis, nuts and fruits. Just fasting
was not as effective to get rid of the infection as eating veggis or avos
or fruit. Also cassia helped a lot. Again it seems to be detox that became
to strong.

Kirt,
An overload develops over time. Obviously you don't have any problems with
weight loss. I don't know how often you need to cut your finger nails.
According to Burger if one reaches protein balance cutting is not necessary
because nails grow only as fast as necessary. It takes about 5 years
instincto practice to reach protein balance (Burger in the article
mentioned above).

So far what I know about RAF and tumors: I guess Bruno knows much more
about this topic than I do. He might have some first hand information on it
and not only examples he read somewhere. Maybe he can even correct me on
some example given above.

Any other experience with high RAF intake especially meat and "symptoms"?

Mike