Doug:
>>A lot of the calorically-restricted make the same comments,
> andrather than feeling deprived by their regimen, they feel much
>>better.

Kirt:
>This is good news.

I have a cat who I raised on an essentially raw lacto-vegetarian &
calorically restricted diet, and I don't think there is any question
that this is not a regimen which leaves her "deprived."  On the
contrary, she thrives on it, in contrast to the obese, diseased pets
one sees all too often.  Is it humane to overfeed a pet & shorten
its life & degenerate its health?  I think anybody calorically
restricting should keep a CR'ed pet so they can get a good feel for
true hunger vs. "eating by the clock."  [Hint: when a cat suddenly
runs up your pant leg & starts whining at you from around your waist
this is a sign that it's true hunger.]

>Never heard of the calorically-restricted before.  -snip- Tell me,
>is the group asover-represented with the "evangelical" as one sees
> amoung the natural hygienists?

Probably not, it is quite a bit easier to tell people to eat raw
than to starve/fast.  [Obviously both are almost impossible.]

>t sounds frm your post that natural hygiene is
> pretty foreign to most of them.

Yeah, to most, but not all.  I've have given them some introduction,
but for many (last I looked that list had about 125 subscribers)
they are as oblivious to the raw world as many of the rawsters are
to their world.

>Since it seems you have a foot solidly in both worlds,
>have you any insights into how they, as my high school
> english teacher so often said, "compare and contrast" to the NHers.

Some of them have already gotten into raw, most have not, eating
conventionally only restricting their calories.  In their postings
of personal anecdotes, it is clear that many experience withdrawal
symptoms rather than true hunger when they try to go too long
without food.  Many are constipated (some with hemorrhoids), & the
reason is that they eat very rigid diets (some of entirely processed
foods) because they are so concerned with getting exact calorie
counts.  In my own case, I had always longed for an extremely-long
lifespan, and in high school began to read some stuff about
practical ways to increase it.  I read everything I could, both
modern scientific works & historical accounts.  My goal was not
health (which I had), it was life extension.  It was clear that only
two camps were on to something significant & were actually willing
to make the lifestyle changes needed to live longer: the NHers & the
CRers.  I eventually got into both.  One thing most CRers don't
grasp is the need to also restrict protein, and on this score the
NHers are generally already clued in.  We have posted relevant
journal citations to that list which clearly support this in recent
months.  There are all sorts of various approaches (popping
supplements, eating organically-raised grains, etc.) which a lot of
people think will significantly increase their lifespan, but which I
really think have to be considered a drop in the bucket compared to
raw and/or CR.  There is a lot of self-delusion out there, but
certainly those on this list already know this.  Another thing: the
M.D.s (& pre-meds) on that list think they know everything there is
to know about human nutrition.  They don't know anything, & probably
the least-knowledgable on this list knows much more about the
massive subject of practical human nutrition.  Many are hung up on
peer-reviewed journal articles, & think that anything which does not
appear in one of these over the past 25 years is off their screens.
Anecdotal stuff has no validity for these types. (Don't get me
wrong, probably most on the CR list are open-minded, it's just that
a few vocal clowns take offense at NH type of knowledge.)  One thing
which many on this list might find of use is this: rodent studies
make it very clear that (from a lifespan & cancer incidence
standpoint) the best course is to go as long as possible between
meals.  I function best when I skip both breakfast & lunch.

>Or better  yet, how about posting the sub info for the list.

send to: [log in to unmask]

in the body write: subscribe crsociety [log in to unmask]
[replace my e-mail address with your own]

If this info is incorrect, let me know & I'll try to find the right
answer.

Here's the plan:  get a whole bunch of rawsters to subscribe and
tell those on that list who already know everything there is to know
about diet what I have told them:  that they will probably extend
their lives at least as much by eating raw as by restricting their
calories, and they will do so a lot easier.  If they do both, CR is
many times easier when eating raw than when eating cooked.  Tell
them this time after time, & when they DEMAND you cite relevant
journal articles you might want to point out to them as I have that
massive quantities of humans (not rodents) have actually gone the
raw route and enjoyed phenomenal health.  Keep this up day after
day, and then when we've got them right where we want them, start in
with the fruit jokes.  Start with the grape jokes:

1) How do you crush a grape?  Tell it you don't love it anymore.
2) How does an elephant make a grape whine?  It steps on it.
3) Did you hear the one about the purple kid?  His mother was
   graped.

You get the idea.  Keep it up & go right through all the fruit
jokes, & when they are about to crack start in with the VEGETABLE
JOKES!  Guaranteed, they will lose it :^)

--Doug Schwartz
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