>Kirt said:
>Ronald Schmid, who seems IMO to be a real pioneer in RAF, even more so
>than instinctos have been, has an interesting chapter in Native
>Nutrition regarding fat metabolism. He argues basically that proper
>fat metabolism from vegetable, nut and seed oils is fraught with
>possible problems related to stress, other nutritional deficiencies,
>alcohol, etc. He feels that vegans are better off without such sources
>of fat:

Schmid sure is radical in his rejection of plant source fatty acids but
I think he might have overplayed his hand a bit. On p.183 he says:
"Nuts and seeds have been a limited part of the food supply for many
native cultures. Perhaps when carefully stored they are a reasonable
food taken in small quantities, but by an large they seem to cause
nothing but trouble." His concerns about rancidity can quite easily be
overcome by proper handling & storing as can the issue of
indigestibility by pre-soaking.


Kirt said:
>"Some strict vegetarians eat many fresh raw greens and sprouts. Such
>people may be very healthy, especially if they minimize intake of
>vegetable, nut, and seed oils (though most eventually show symptoms of
>deficiencies). The subtle aspects of fatty-acid metabolism discussed
>above help explain their relative good health--their bodies make EPA
>from alpha-linoleum acid. [comment: supporting Tom's take that
>sproutarians do better than fruitarians and other all-raw vegan diets]

So the Schmid-Billings connection did not evade you either. :-)

>"Minmizing sources of excessive linoleic and arachidonic acids, while
>emphasizing sources of EPA, DHA, and alpha-linolenic acid, favors the
>metabolic pathways producing EPA. Sources of linoleic and arachidonic
>acids include most vegetable, nut, and seed oils, and fatty meats and
>dairy products from grain-fed animals. Sources of EPA, DHAm and
>alpha-linolenic acid include fish and shellfish, meat and dairy
>products from grass-fed animals, and green vegetables, including
>lettuce and other salad greens. The small amounts of linoleic acids
>the body requires are supplied by such a diet." (p.78)

When I met him last year he was quite adamant that a raw, vegan diet
would lead to chronic deficiencies which is in line with what he says
on p..91-92:"Some diets advocate exclusively use of raw foods. The
program known as natural hygiene was described in books by Herbert
Shelton, who for many years maintained a health spa in San Antonio. The
diet is strictly vegetarian - no animal foods are included (this is
known as a vegan diet). Sprouts, fruits, and raw vegetable juices are
emphasized. The regime is frequently combined with therapeutic fasting
as an approach to the treatment of chronic diseases. A strength of this
program is that raw vegetables ( especially sprouts and greens) and
their juices are extremely beneficial foods.  An exclusively raw diet
eliminates harmful foods. Individuals often experience improvements and
may even apparently recover from serious chronic diseases.  Improvement
or recovery may be tenuous, however. Deficiency symptoms may appear,
and there is usually difficulty staying on the strict regime.
Tremendous cravings often occur - the body knows something is lacking.
The gaunt, hollow appearance of individuals who have followed a vegan
raw- foods diet over long periods of time speaks of a need for missing
nutrients.
One case of mine was a four-year-old girl whose mother had been a
strict raw-foods vegan since the sixth month of her pregnancy with the
child.  This child had never had any food of animal origin, eating only
raw vegetables, sprouts, nuts, seeds and fruits.  Markedly undersized
for her age and with tiny bones, the pains she experienced in her legs
suggested rickets. She was chronically tired, with little energy for
playing or learning. I suspected deficiencies of essential fatty acids,
vitamin D, calcium, vitamin B 12, and perhaps protein.  I persuaded her
mother to include certified raw milk and eggs in the child's diet,
though she would not include cod liver oil or fish. Within a month,
though, the child had gained weight and had more energy,
and the pains in her legs had disappeared. Within a few months her
fatigue was gone and, though still small, she had grown considerably.
Her case is typical of children on vegan raw-food diets for extended
periods. While the mother had not encountered major problems of her
own, the diet lacked nutrients required for the growth and optimal
development of her child."

Kirt said:
>All of which is why I have not held instincto out as the be all and
>end all of diets. As Peter reminds me, instincto is young and in a
>somewhat narcisistic stage... Maybe sometime soon, instincto newcomers
>can avoid such long-term mistakes by focusing less on the idealism of
>the instincto diet and more on common sense. :/

Beautifully put. You have never before made your case for instincto so
compellingly !!!

Kirt said:
>There are a couple of formerly raw-vegan folks in M2M who appear to be
>doing very well with instincto including RAF, and both already have
>respect for "too much fruit" from their vegan days so they should be a
>step up on it all. That said, one recently surprised me by hoping that
>after resolving whatever deficiencies present with RAF they would like
>to return to vegan because it is more comfortable ideologically. Here
>I thought _anyone_ who experienced RAF would walk away from veganism,
>but that doesn't seem to be the case among the folks I've heard about
>so far. Tain't nothing simplistic

That is right. I know not one but two instinctive eaters who are
playing with the idea of returning to a vegan diet. I think it is a
natural stage that many ex-vegan instinctos will go through before
returning to RAF for good. Not a bad conclusion coming from a vegan.:-)


Kirt said:
>Indeed, isn't it the same self-control
>being used to eat avo skin that would be useful in not cutting into
>(or buying in the first place!) the extra avo? I question whether
>eating a relatively toxic avo skin would be more harmful than eating
>the extra avo that it may pre-empt.

How could it be toxic when it tastes delicious?

>Melisa and I are concentrating more on RAF (testing everyday and thus
>eating 4 or 5 times/week), instead of waiting until we feel
>unsatisfied on plant foods before giving RAF a try. In fact, the most
>drastic avo taste I ever got was in New Zealand when my RAF consuption
>(beef and oysters) was relatively high (though not as high as the last
>few weeks).

I look forward to getting a report on your progress.

Best, Peter
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