Hi Jai!!!
I went to your Web Site after seeing your ridiculous Reply to Kelli
because I had to see what kind of Person would write something SO
STUPID!!! and Especially when calling himself a Doctor - A Doctor of
What? On your Web Site all you do is Advertise Astrology and Romance
stuff etc. - although I did find one Health Link devoted to
Vegetarianism of course - Surprise!!! Surprise!!! - and don't even
mention you're a Doctor there; so I assume it has nothing to do with
Health or Anything Like That and you might just be making it up or
something or got it through the Mail or something like that and so for
$19.95 you're now a Doctor of Astrology or something like that and so
just say Dr. in front of your Name like that gives you some Credibility
or Something - Could that have been any longer for one sentence? - :).
Well you have None with me when all you do is take Pot Shots at Meat
Eating and don't even Give any Hard Data or Facts on the Issue or
Anything for that Matter - Geesh!!!
I know I'm sounding rather rude but I looked at all your Posts on this
List before I Replied with this tone - if any of you feel I'm too harsh
please let me know - and NOT EVEN ONCE did you say anything that was
Useful or Helpful in Anyway that I could see. All you did and do is
POO-POO Meat Eating and say how Great Vegetarianism is and yet never
give Any Hard Data or Facts that are worth anything to show how
Vegetarianism is Better or more Healthful and Beneficial to someone and
that Meat Eating is so bad. What you did was, right in the Middle of a
Thread about "Vegetarians Who Return to Meat", Reply to your own Message
"Vegetarian" and say: "One more reason to stop eating meat: ..." but
never Backed Up With Actual Facts how Meat Eating is not Good For You.
You've never given any HARD DATA, FACTS, PROOF, or SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH
of how Vegetarianism is Healthier and More Beneficial than Meat Eating -
Or should we say Metarianism - :)!!! - Some Doctor you seem to be!!! -
Please let Us know what kind of a Doctor you actually are because I'm
sure I'm not the only one who's interested.
I would love to be proved wrong and that I could just eat Fruits and
Veggies and be the Healthiest I could possibly be - and so no Animals
would have to Die for my Nourishment - but I have yet to, in all my
Years of Looking, Studying, and Researching, find that to be true for
anyone in the Long Run - I wanted to believe it, but it didn't seem to
Hold Water for the most Part and seemed to be mostly based in Beliefs,
Untruths (So-Called Truths), Rumors, and Fanaticism. Now, who knows,
maybe some People are Evolving, Changing, Adapting, Mutating, or
Whatever to be able to be Vegetarians, but I don't know any, or really
of any, except from these People who make all these Claims with nothing
to back them up and they just seem to be rehashing the same ol' Stories,
Rumors, and Myths that have been going around for Years, maybe Decades,
and who knows, maybe Centuries, if not longer. So if you think that
Vegetarianism is the Way To Go: Please!!! Oh Please!!! Pretty Please!!!
Back It Up with some Hard Data, Facts, Sources, and Scientific Proof -
Please!!! In my Deep and Spiritual Feelings and Beliefs I Feel It's
Possible, but on a Plain Physical and Physiological Level Vegetarianism
doesn't seem Hold Water for Humans from everything I've seen. To point
out one Simple Fact - and one is all you need to show something is
flawed or not: Where on Earth is a Vegetarian suppose to get B12 from a
Non-Animal Source? I could go on and on about other areas but I think
I'll leave it with just the B12 issue for now because I think it a Great
Place to Start and a Real Problem for all Vegetarians who are Real
Vegans and so have no Diary or Eggs in their Diet.
If you want to know what some Honest Vegetarians are like that actually
aren't afraid of Actual Hard Data, Facts, and the Truth about things
like B12 go to:
The Vegetarian Society of the United Kingdom - Home Page
http://www.vegsoc.org
and then go to a Great Article they have on B12:
Vegetarian Information Sheet - Vitamin B12
http://www.vegsoc.org/Info/b12.html
I'll quote some of the Best Parts of it as I would Love yours or anyone
else's opinion on it:
-----
Introduction
Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt,
and so is also known as cobalamin. It is exclusively synthesised by
bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products. There
has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of vitamin
B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as spirulina have
all been suggested as containing significant B12. However, the present
consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be
unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as
safe sources. Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12. Vitamin B12 is
necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the maintenance of the
nervous system, and growth and development in children. Deficiency can
cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy, involving the degeneration of
nerve fibres and irreversible neurological damage, can also occur.
. . .
Dietary Sources
The only reliable unfortified sources of vitamin B12 are meat, dairy
products and eggs. There has been considerable research into possible
plant food sources of B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds and algae
have all been proposed as possible sources of B12. However, analysis of
fermented soya products, including tempeh, miso, shoyu and tamari, found
no significant B12.
Spirulina, an algae available as a dietary supplement in tablet form,
and nori, a seaweed, have both appeared to contain significant amounts
of B12 after analysis. However, it is thought that this is due to the
presence of compounds structurally similar to B12, known as B12
analogues. These cannot be utilised to satisfy dietary needs. Assay
methods used to detect B12 are unable to differentiate between B12 and
it's analogues, Analysis of possible B12 sources may give false positive
results due to the presence of these analogues.
Researchers have suggested that supposed B12 supplements such as
spirulina may in fact increase the risk of B12 deficiency disease, as
the B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism.
The current nutritional consensus is that no plant foods can be relied
on as a safe source of vitamin B12.
. . .
-----
I really like first line under Dietary Sources:
"The only reliable unfortified sources of vitamin B12 are meat, dairy
products and eggs."
and the very last line:
"The current nutritional consensus is that no plant foods can be relied
on as a safe source of vitamin B12."
I can't wait to see how you or anyone else will Reply to this who really
Thinks and Believes that Fruits and Vegetables can give them everything
they need and that's what Man's Suppose to and Should Live on because
that's what God and the Universe intended. From looking at all your
other Posts you'll probably just ignore it and not Reply, but at least
the others here who want to Learn the Truth about things regardless of
their Beliefs will hopefully Learn something, and I, myself, would like
to learn more to if anyone has anything to Add and/or can Enlighten Us
more fully. Who knows maybe what seems to be true about B12 is wrong,
but if it is where's the Hard Data, Facts, and Scientific Proof. That's
what I like about the PALEODIET List because Dean Esmay requires that
when Posting there and is Pretty Anal about it to his Credit. This is a
Great List too because we can talk more Freely which I think is also
needed, but I would never want my Beliefs to Totally Override my
Feelings and Reason when it's Obvious Certain Things are True - And yes
Truth can be Relative but I'm talking not as much Metaphysical here but
Physical and Physiological so please don't tell me that we can Live on
Just Air or Ether because even though I Believe that is Possible I'm not
Talking about things like that. So who knows maybe by Believing in
Vegetarianism so Hard you might be able to make it Real - I really don't
know. As I said before, I Believe in a lot of Metaphysical and
Spiritual Stuff and Ideals but I have yet to see People really
Demonstrate being able to be Healthy Vegetarians, Fruitarians,
Breatharians, or Etherians. So I'm going to continue to eat RAF - Raw
Animal Foods - because I'm really drawn to it and it seems to really
Work for Me and I Feel Very In Alignment With It Too - It's Seems Very
Natural To Me!!!
The fact that you would even would quote anything from QuackWatch like
it was Actually Factual or a Reliable Source for Data or something when
I've read some of the Info on "Alternative" Health Methods and Cancer
Therapies there and know from Personal Experience that they're not true
leads me to believe that you'll do, say, or quote anything just to
"Prove" and Proselytize your Vegetarianism Cause regardless of whether
it's based in Actual Truth or Not. I think you might want to read the
Thread "how to kill a movement" to get an Idea where that can and does
seem to lead and also the Link in the first Message:
Ten Ways to Kill a Citizen Movement -
http://envirolink.org/arrs/essays/kill_a_movement.html
>From reading the "Selective" so-called "Facts" you quote on your Web
Site in the Health part of the Article you have there called:
"101 Reasons to go Vegetarian" -
http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/101.html#Health
I can point out quite a few Major Flaws and also where your so-called
"Facts" and "Data" are very Misleading and again meant to sway someone
away from Meat Eating and towards Vegetarianism who hasn't done enough
research on their own on Vegetarianism and might not realize that you
don't Back Up ANY of your so-called Facts and Data with any Scientific
Proof or even a Reference for any of your Data at all whether it's a
Credible Source or not notwithstanding.
I did a Search on your E-Mail Address: [log in to unmask] in the List's
Archives in case you Posted some Messages before I joined the List and
maybe you weren't as Biased as I thought and got the following:
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?S2=raw-food&q=&s=&f=jai%40mantra.com&a=&b=
-----
Search results – RAW-FOOD
9 matches.
Item # Date Time Recs Subject
004520 97/09/26 08:36 24 Broccoli Fights Cancer - The Evidence Keeps
Mounting
004919 97/11/23 06:02 24 Poultry Warning
004925 97/11/23 09:26 30 Re: Poultry Warning
004941 97/11/24 12:32 20 Re: Poultry Warning
005462 98/02/03 07:14 22 Re: calcium rich foods
006150 98/04/05 09:14 23 Vegetarian
006156 98/04/06 06:31 49 Re: Vegetarian
006178 98/04/10 09:59 32 Increased CJD Risk From Eating Raw Meat,
Brains
006442 98/05/05 14:48 44 Re: Blood Types & Diets
-----
Well you were just as Biased as I thought and I just realized that
you're probably just a Fanatical Vegetarian and there's really nothing
probably to do with you since even if the evidence was right in front of
your Face standing there right in front of you you'd probably just
ignore it and pretend it's not there and just go off into your
Vegetarian Fantasy World where everything is So Great and Wonderful and
no one Eats Animals anymore saying "Om Shanti" over and over again to
yourself till the Cows Come Home so to speak. Well I guess there would
be no Lions, Tigers, or Predators of Any Kind since they All Eat Meat
and we can just Lie down with the Lambs, Sheep, and Cattle and just Eat
Grass or something like that - I Don't Think So!!! - Why do you think
the Creator of This World, The Entire Universe, and the All That Is
would have had it this way if it wasn't Part of the Divine Plane as it
seems to be so often called? Maybe things can and will change in the
World to where nothing Eats another Living Entity and the only thing
that might be Left to Eat and Consume would be Fruit, Water, and Air
since they seem to be the only Gifts of Nature and nothing is Killed or
Injured when Eaten and Consumed - Although that's up to debate since
from some Points of View they're considered Alive as well and we might
have to end of Living on Ether, but since that's Alive Too I don't know
what Left since Everything in the Universe and the Universe Itself Seems
To Be Alive Just Brimming and Overflowing With Life and Energy from the
Depths and Inner Reaches of the Microcosm to the Depths and Outer
Reaches of the Macrocosm - So I Guess We're All SOL - Shit Out Of Luck -
And The Creator has to just Destroy Everything and make it
Self-Sustaining so Nothing is Consumed At All in the Universe Whatsoever
because that'd be the Right thing to do, right Jai? - Somehow that
doesn't seem quite like it's gonna happen - At least not right now in
the way I think you might mean - I think the Universe always is
Recirculating Energy and Maybe one day We Can Live Off The Universal
Energy Itself but again we're still Living Off and Consuming the
Universal Energy Itself So Something Is Still Being Consumed but, as I
said before, Recirculated - But I could be wrong!!! - Who am I, and what
do I know!!! - I'm just another Fellow Cell in the Body of God - The All
That Is - Sharing What I Feel And Believe To Be True Too!!! - And Back
It Up With Facts When I Can!!! - :) - Om Shanti!!! - Selah!!!
I noticed when Replying to Kelli you did what you did in all your
Messages basically nothing and were of no real Help whatsoever. How
could what you Replied to Kelli with be helpful to her in anyway
regarding what she asked:
>> . . . I am intrigued by the theory presented in "4
>> Blood Types 4 Diets." My blood type is . . . - Kelli.
Jai:
> An eye-opener for such theories is at:
> http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/spotquack.html
> Excerpts: "Twenty-Five Ways to Spot Quacks and Vitamin Pushers
> By Stephen Barrett, M.D. Victor Herbert, M.D., J.D.
How does the above have anything to do with Blood Types Diets? All you
did was insinuate that it's another Quack Idea and that Peter D'Adamo
must also be a Quack for coming up with it and his book "Eat Right 4
Your Type". Well Jai, guess what? Peter D'Adamo has a ", N.D." after
his name and you know what that stands for? It stands for Naturopathic
Doctorate (N.D.) and that mean he's an Actual Doctor or as he likes to
go by: Naturopathic Physician. And if you go to his Web Site you can
click on his Link: Biographic Information -
http://www.dadamo.com/cv1.htm and you'll learn all about him and he has
some rather Impressive and Verifiable Credentials and Publications. Now
just because he's an N.D. doesn't mean he knows everything but he
certainly seems to have had done an awful lot of Work and Research
regarding Blood Type Diets so if you want call him a Quack and his Work
and Research Quackery you have a long way to go to ever be considered a
Reasonable Person whose Replies can be even in the Slightest Trusted or
thought of anything of than that of a Raving Vegetarian Fanatical
Lunatic. I might not agree with everything Peter says, because I
haven't studied his Research enough to make that kind of decision yet,
but the little I have seen and studied seems to apply and work. I'm a B
and what he says about B's seems to really apply to me and be accurate
in a General Sense so I think it's worth further investigation on my
part and anyone else who's really interested in their Total Health and
has or had been wondering why their Diet just didn't seem to work for
them while it seemed to make sense and work really well for their
Friends. Could it be that they have the Appropriate Blood Type for that
Diet and you don't? - I think it's worth Investigating. But even if I
didn't agreed with him completely I would never even consider him a
Quack so why on Earth would you? Are you really that much of a
Vegetarian Fanatic that you just can't control yourself and have to
Poo-Poo and Put down Everything that's not in Full Compliance with your
Vegetarian Agenda? Please have a Little Consideration and Respect for
the People and Researchers who really are looking for the Truth - or as
close to it as They/We can get - regarding Our Health, Nutrition, and
Diet.
I also noticed you only quoted #22 out of the 25 Ways and that if you
look at this and the other 24 Ways you can see that Stephen Barrett,
M.D. and Victor Herbert, M.D., J.D. are not only the Quacks that they
are calling these other People but Down Right Stupid Idiots who have NO
COMMON SENSE WHATSOEVER!!! - Geesh!!! Just look at what they say in
Every Single Way and you'll see they sound like Typical Fanatics of
Every Religion and Belief No Matter How Strange and Just Make Up The
Fact As They Go Along To Suit Their Purpose And Agenda!!! - Sounds Like
Someone Else I Know!!! - Hint!!! Hint!!! - So No Wonder You Quote Them
And Seem To Like Them!!! - They're Crazy Like You And Maybe Even
Vegetarians - God Forbid!!! - It's A Conspiracy!!! - Help!!! - Geesh!!!
- Get Real!!! And Get A Life!!! - Please!!! - Just try and use that
Common Sense that I want to Believe that you must have in there Inside
You Somewhere just waiting for it to come out - Maybe you need a Little
Meat, Eggs, or Some Diary to get that Brain of yours to Work probably
again so your Common Sense can Work again - I can give you some really
Good Sources for those things if you'd like - :).
I'm not going to Quote every Way and show where they're Wrong and Not
only Way Off Base but Totally Off Base and have No Idea what they're
talking about, because if I didn't I'd be here for more hours than I
want writing and I don't know if I'm up to it right now or if it'd be
appreciated as much as the Time putting in is Worth to me right now -
But maybe I'll do it another Time when I'm Feeling up to the Task!!! -
And Knowing Me I'll Probably Do It Too - Since I'm That Obsessive, Nuts,
Crazy, And Detailed Oriented Myself!!! - :)!!! - But It's That Good Kind
Of Crazy!!! - At Least That's What I Keep Telling Myself!!! - :)!!!
I think that Rex Harrill's - Our Resident Brixman who has Posted some of
the Most Informative Messages about Fruits, Veggies, and Soil that I've
ever seen just about anywhere - Thanks Rex!!! - :) - Reply to your Post:
Rex:
> "8. They [evidently "quacks"] Claim That Soil Depletion and the Use of
> Pesticides and "Chemical" Fertilizers Result in Food That Is Less Safe and
>Less Nourishing."
is a Great Example of how Literally Insane these so-called Doctors at
QuackWatch are and I think it would be a Cold Day In Hell before you,
they, or anyone else I know could Pull A Fast One like this by him when
it comes to anything to do with Soil and the Nutrient Content of Natural
Organically Grown Foods (Fruits and Veggies) compared to Artificial
Synthetically Fertilized Grown Foods. If you, they, or anyone else
says, and I quote: "In fact, except for their high price, they are not
significantly different." and really believe that, then I've got a
Bridge to sell you in Brooklyn and some Great Land in this Toxic Waste
Dump near Area 51 - Geesh!!! - Wake Up People!! - Well I really meant
you Jai!!! - But just in case anyone else was Sleeping I hope that got
them up!!! - Wakie Wakies!!! - :)!!!
There are so many of the 25 Ways I would like to Comment on but this one
just stuck out at me because I guess it was after #8 and I just couldn't
believe what they said:
-----
13. They Claim That "Natural" Vitamins are Better than "Synthetic" Ones.
This claim is a flat lie. Each vitamin is a chain of atoms strung
together as a molecule. Molecules made in the "factories" of nature are
identical to those made in the factories of chemical companies. Does it
makes sense to pay extra for vitamins extracted from foods when you can
get all you need from the foods themselves?
-----
Can you believe this Shit? - My God!!! - If this was true then why does
500 mg of "Natural" Vitamin C take up about the size of a Ping Pong Ball
whereas 500 mg of "Synthetic" Vitamin C would only be the size of a
Small Pill. Well that was what I found out from that last I knew. If
anyone had a Good Source for some Data of this Subject I'd sure like to
know - Thanks!!! - :). I'm sure that everyone gets all the Vitamins
that they need from the Foods they get from the "Normal" Stores - NOT!!!
- I Don't Think So!!! - Now that might be true for those of us who get
Really Good Organic Foods but I don't think it's true for most. How can
you get something from a Food when it wasn't in the Food already because
it couldn't get it from the Soil because it was So Depleted - But
again, I could be wrong and I'd Love to Hear some Comments on that -
Rex, do you know of or have any Good Sources for some Data on this? I'd
appreciate it - Thanks!!! - :)
Before I end this I just want you to know that some of Info and Data you
stated in your Posts and "101 Reasons..." are True but only apply to
Typical Factory Farm Raised Livestock and not the kind that I and the
other RAFers - Raw Animal Fooders - I know Eat, and so you can't use
that Data, those Arguments, and Scare Tactics in regards to what we Eat
etc.. I suggest that you don't Lump all Livestock together like you
can't really Lump all Foods together because Natural Organically Raised
Livestock is as Different to Typical Factory Farm Raised Livestock as
Organically Grown Foods is to Artificial Synthetically Fertilized Grown
Foods. So all your Fanatical Vegetarian Arguments don't Fly or Apply to
Us and the Kinds of Foods we Eat - Thank You Very Much!!!
I wanted to refute most of your "101 Reasons..." in regards to Health
but it's getting late for me - it's about 6:29am in the morning and I
haven't been to bed yet - and so I'll do it in another Message I'll send
later.
Before I go just wanted you to know that I've been eating RAF - Raw
Animal Food - since last year and it's great. I was eating RAF before
but just didn't include Raw Beef and Chicken. I've basically been
eating like the Ancient Hunter-Gatherers and found I love it the best
compared to any way I've ever eaten on a Day to Day Basis. Did you know
they basically had no Disease: No Heart Disease, Cancer, Diabetes, or
even Cavities. I think you'll like one of my Favorite Articles
regarding Diet on the Net and the Best Article I've ever seen that goes
to the Heart of what Man's Natural, Original, and God-Given Diet Seems
to be: http://www2.southwind.net/~wardnik/hb-interview1a.html
-----
Paleolithic Diet vs. Vegetarianism:
What was humanity's original, natural diet?
A 3-Part Visit with Ward Nicholson
"One of the best things to ever appear on the net on the subject of diet
and human evolution. Probably the most meticulously documented, closely
detailed, well-researched discussion I have ever read."
--Dean Esmay, host and moderator of the PALEODIET listgroup
Part 1
Setting the scientific record straight on humanity's evolutionary
prehistoric diet and ape diets.
Part 2
Fire and cooking in human evolution, rates of genetic adaptation to
change, hunter-gatherers, and diseases in the wild.
Part 3
The psychology of idealistic diets and lessons learned from the Natural
Hygiene Many-to-Many about successes and failures of vegetarian diets.
-----
I hope you find it Very Informative like everyone else I know has and I
really hope you do Reply to this Message and that there are no Hard
Feelings as I know I come across really Harsh and have been working on
not trying to Totally Offend People while still letting them know how I
Feel.
- Take Care!!!
- Gregg!!!
|
