Peter:
>I am not sure what you are referring to, but I do not think it is a
>sound idea to let zealotry decide ones level of (environmental)
>commitment. Especially as zealots rarely give a damn about the cause
>they happen to have embraced anyhow and only are in it to further their
>own personal agendas.

You are very right: it is not sound at all.

>Kirt said:
>>and especially their view that government is to be the controlling
>>mechanism. (Your activism is much more commendable.)

>Countries with a higher environmental consciousness than the US all
>have implemented stronger laws to curb pollution and waste, and no
>matter how commendable Bhodi=EDs actions are, he and his activist friends
>will never be strong enough to stand up to corporate America. Do not
>forget that if the US government had not founded the National Parks in
>the last century, we would today not have some at least fairly
>unspoiled nature to enjoy in this country and that with a standard of
>living often higher than the US many European countries use half the
>amount of energy per capita.

I have been around the block several times with the libertarians on
this--seeing environmentalism as a "new" and legitimate role for
government, and they often do not. There is as much evidence that the
government is in the corporate pocket as there is that the gavernment has
stood up to them. I think that at some point _individuals_ en masse will
need to stand up to corporate America. In in the final analysis this is
done buy purchasing (or lack thereof), as much as by protesting. Certainly
both are important. It seems to be the tendency for so many people to be
hoodwinked by advertising that is the base issue. When coporate folks can
create needs (say, for soda) on masses who are seemingly oblivious, I'm
afraid even the strongest eco-government may not be strong enough to make
the difference.

>Kirt said:
>>Further, the line becomes very thin regarding "issues". During the
>>xma. shopping season some highschoolers made headlines here in San
>>Diego by doing the "chain yourself to the mall entrance doors" bit in
>>protest of fur. I joined probably 90+% of my fellow San Diego county
>>folks in thinking that that was idiotic, joined maybe 20-% in thinking
>>it was charmingly "youthful" if misguided, and probably less the 1% in
>>_sadness_ that any particular highschool kid is falling so hard for
>>the animal rights shpeil, while at the same time...ah, forget it...

>I commend their actions. The fur industry is only too known for its
>cruelty and responsibility for scores of animals ending up on the
>endangered species list.

People can choose what clothes to wear. That fashion is more important than
a portion of a wild animal population is regrettable, but I find the
sentiment/energy involved in the animal rights movement is mis-focused and
overblown by the folks who expect that chaining themselves to the mall
doors will save any particular animal. On the other hand, I find the
average Amercian consumer _very_ under-blown about how their purchases
affect the planet. Both extremes are fanatical to my eyes.

>Kirt said:
>>I can't get past the obnoxiousness/rightiousness/hypocrasy of some of
>>the "deep ecology" folks

>I have not come across this. Could you give us some idea of what you
>are referring to?

You could probably take NFL's attitude and substitute "don't
pollute/consume" as the message and get some idea about the kind of
in-your-face environmental evangelical rap I'm speaking of. Or Rene's
holier-than-thou bit has its eco-face as well. Whenever someone else is
telling everyone else how to live, and holding them to standards which they
have decided are Truth, I think there is a problem. One finds the full
range of eco-attitudes in the letters to Real Goods published in the Real
Goods News. I don't know what else might be shared experience btwn us in
order that I may provide an example.

Like raw foods, I hold eco stuff pretty close to my heart. Perhaps that is
why it arouses me so when examples of zealotry are often heard.

>Kirt said:
>> As Tom Robbins lays out the social activism <----> individual
>>romanticism continuum, I fall squarely on the ind rom side.

>You must mean John Robbins.

No. Tom. The effusive fiction author.

>Kirt said:
>>I But, truth told, I'm more interested in leading my own quiet life
>>than indentifying with any movement--at least not being part of the
>>problem.

>Which movements do you consider part of the problem? And how?

It is movements _themselves_ of I am wary of. I consider that people very
much want to be a part of something "larger than themselves" (perhaps due
to their disconnection from themselves and by extention from Nature). When
religion, diet, eco-warrior-ism, etc. fit the bill and become rallying
cries of folks hell-bent on changing other people's behavior, I think,
regardless of the issue, there is potential for warping and problems.

I can remember quite well when I realized that my own historic tendencies
to social activism were as much in order to change change other people so I
would have a chance of "fitting" in with them, as it was real concern for
the issue at hand. The issue will never disappear, but my approach to
dealing with them has certainly changed.

>Kirt said:
>>No doubt my own emotional history plays a big part in all this
>>blabbing. Even in high school, I'd be up in the stands at the "big
>>games", the crowd going nuts cheering, surrounded by folks screamin
>>and jumping up and down, whipped into a frenzy over a swish, and I
>>just didn't get it. Or at a rock concert, even stoned, I always
>>thought it was embarrassing when everyone would be flicking their
>>bics, you know? I just can't stand to be part of a "mass psychology",
>>feel like a nasty bacterium in the crowd organism. <cackle maniacally>
>>:) Basically, I'm not a follower. Nor a leader, for that matter.
>>Different strokes...

>I appreciate your honesty. When you have sorted out your emotional
>history, God knows what kind of radical might be hiding in you ;-)

I find a hero is in Ken Kesey's Sailor Song, not in Radicals Inc. ;) As for
sorting out my emotional history, well...don't hold your breath, so to
speak :)

>Kirt said:
>>Living in the burbs now is really bringing it home to me: Freeway life
>>is very limiting. As usual, we are the greenest folks on the block,
>>but eco-warrior types would consider us sell-outs of the nth order.

>How do you figure that?

We just aren't extreme enough for them. We set out some borax stuff for the
rodents in our attic. We drive a car. We watch lots of vidios. Etc. Etc...

>Kirt said:
>> In the end it will be our dislike of carpeting that moves us on! ;)

>Sounds to me like you are suffocating in your surroundings and need to
>move on.

No, just the carpeting...;) I am finding the burbs a complex and
fascinating experience after years overseas. I suspect it will end up
affecting me as deeply and in as surprising ways as our time living w/o mod
cons in a subsitance role in NZ. I am just along for the ride, so to speak.
I am glad to have experience(d) it, but both Melisa and I agree that it
isn't forever...

>Peter said:
>>>Beautifully put. You have never before made your case for instincto
>>so compellingly !!!

>Kirt said:
>>Ha! I think I was making _your_ case for instincto, but i'll take it
>>however I can get it :)

>Are you by this saying that you disagree with any of the above?

Not at all!

>>never know that shellfish, raw fatty fish, liver and other RAFs may be
>>highly beneficial if they never try?

>That is the dilemma of any dietary purist. I have put out that question
>several times and still not gotten any answer. I truly enjoyed your
>Raw Law post BTW - it is among the best you have ever written.

And the response to Ombodhi's activism query is among the worst. I have to
keep a _balance_ of sorts, you know? ;)

>Could we add a bit of
>>commercial yogurt and make raw yogurt?

>I hear that if you leave raw goats milk on the counter for few days it
>will naturally turn into yogurt.

I sure went bad in the fridge! Whew!

>I enjoyed your review which was very much to the point.

But very likely too flippant in tone...:(

>I have heard
>from several people that Aajonus has been getting great results with
>his clients, and I would find it very interesting to compare his
>program with instincto - that would surely put instincto to the test.

I share your interest whole-heartedly!

Cheers,
Kirt