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Subject:
From:
Jo Yoshida <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Raw Food Diet Support List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:37:50 -0700
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (103 lines)
Kirt reflected:
| I am somewhat unsatisfied with my last reply :/

| >Jo's $0.02:
| >This urge to intimidate / manipulate is not restricted to fruitarians
| >(although I appreciate Peter's creative Latin moniker). It usually emerges
| >when there is perceived danger to a person's belief system or physical
| >well-being. We can rule out the latter in this case
|
| Hmmm. Why can we rule out the later? NFL's belief system may well be the
| ruin of their physical well-being.

Jo's Garage reopens on Monday morning:
In this case I meant the ability to put food on the table, secure shelter,
clothe himself, etc.

| Jo, you've been around long enough to know the score, and yet
| here you are cutting NFL slack for repeated threats of violence. What gives?

I'm NOT condoning threats of violence. They suck big time. What I would
like to know is what is the underlying cause of these threats? And saying
they're a bunch of arseholes doesn't help anything. Is it possible to move
beyond this? Or do we afix ourselves in distrust and hate and play off on
that same energy exhibited at the Expo?

| I agree that NFL doesn't speak for every aspiring fruitarian out there, but
| man o man I see VERY few fruitarians making it known that NFL doesn't speak
| for them. And then there are seemingly reasonable folks such as yourself
| who make posts like this, giving them all sorts of room to manipulate from!
| I don't get it, Jo.

NOBODY speaks for me. Please do get that. This is the core of your confusion.

| And I just plain don't get the "lack of acceptance" bit. Do you mean that
| NFL doesn't accept Tom Billings? Reality? Sound criticism? Their business
| failure? If repeated threats of physical violence is an acceptable "lack of
| acceptance" for you

Acceptance of self. I could have been clearer on this.

| What?!? Are you saying you'd like NFL's rabid "enterprise" to succeed? Sir
| Wolfe has ripped off attentive ears and "debated" with stolen words and
| when that fails he just starts calling names. Oh, yeah, let's all kiss
| NFL's forehead (or should it be _feet_) and give him again the "open
| forum"--which he disallows with repeated threats of violence!!! Are we, you
| and I, living in the same slice of the 20th century, Jo?

For sure. Albeit in a TOTALLY different way of doing things. Leave out the
dietary racism, plagarism, threats, etc. They would reach more people
without all that crap. Dietary truths have far more merit than its
messengers no matter how charismatic they may be.

| Well, it will continue to be a pretty accurate stereotype as long as you,
| Jo, and others like you keep cutting the NFL bullies an infinite amount of
| slack. Don't you get it? You are letting NFL create and perpetuate the
| image of you as a "flaky, self-righteous health nazi". Posts like yours
| will be read by NFL as tacit acceptance. YOU are perpetuating the
| stereotype.

| Yet somehow Mr. Marin makes it clear that he is unallied with such
| attitudes and tactics. You, on the other hand, come across as an NFL
| apologist.

Nothing that you and I find distasteful in their practices has been
condoned in any way by Your Humble Narrator. But you're free to point
fingers.

|> (please no flames, I am NOT an NFL spokesperson).
|
| You sure sound like one. Does that bother you in the least?

That's your opinion. I'm not bothered by it as long as I know that I'm not
(an NFL spokesperson).

| It's hard to have a gentleman's (ah, forgive me, gentleperson's)
| disagreement with someone who threatens you with violence, doncha think?

Ya got me there! I usually walk away and come back until things have cooled
down (like Rowland Morin did).

| Instead of, apparently, pleading with Tom and this list to go easy on NFL,
| why don't you let NFL know in no uncertain terms that you find their
| bullying absolutely unacceptable, that you are, as a person and fruitarian,
| utterly embarrassed to be associated with them, etc. Why is that so hard?!?

There's no pleading, Kirt. I'm trying to see if there are ANY options
available to help bring potential NFL contributions into this group
(without violating the spirit of the list).

The bullying tactics stink. And I thought I made it pretty clear from an
earlier post that I'm not affiliated with any organization or group or
product (well, OK, the Macintosh rocks, and Nikon makes outasite photo
gear).

| Sounds like Tom's choice was a bit limited, eh? It also sounds like NFL is
| on your plate still. I am embarrassed for you.

There's fruit on my plate. A glass of celery juice as well. On another day,
some cooked vegetables and a green salad. There's food combining. Maybe
someday I'll try a bit of RAF. I don't see NFL there. Nor the ANHS. Nor the
IEEE, nor the CBC. You're embarrassed over nothing. Really. Better to give
your capillaries a break and stop that blushing. ;)

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