>Kirt:
>>Sounds like the ultimate-quality beef. Too bad you are only allowed to eat
>>it one day a week, eh? This is cult behavior, not instinct.
Stephan:
>I must protest. This is not fair. The one-day-a-week-rule is something that
>is set for people who work for Orkos. Every guest of the Chateau can choose
>of the full range of available products on every day.
Yes, the cultish aspects of the Chateau apply to those who work there, not
so much the guests. But those who remain with instincto, cassia or not, are
often in a vulnerable stage. When Melisa and I visited in the late 80's we
were past that vulnerability and were unimpressed with the people there, in
large part because of the cultish aspects of the live-ins.
>Kirt:
>>The cynic in me sees that new fear of meat as a ploy to make instincto more
>>"politically correct" and less threatening to the vegetarian types. (Red
>>meat is evil these days, no?) And it explains away Nicole's death very
>>tidily. I'm surprised that Nicole's death didn't change any insider's
>>attitude about "meta". Or did it?
>
>It would have been much more cynical if everything went on as it was after
>Nicole's dead. It would have shown a certain ignorance.
And how has "meta" changed?
>But the consequences drawn in this case seem to be plausible to me:
>Mr. Burger said, that the outcome of his experimenting with meat finally
>was, that meat of cultivated animals (beef, sheep, pork,...) is similar
>in cheating the instincts as overbreeded fruits. The latter has been
>discussed on this list, a lot of posts came from Thomas Billings. (Wild
>versus cultivated fruits,...)
>Well, eating too much of overbreeded fruits may cause your teeth to
>dissolve/decay or just drive you into a nutritional disbalance and/or
>sugar addiction.
>And overeating meat can have much more drastic consequences.
Hmmm. Outside of Burger's say so, do you have any support for that last
sentence? "Plausible" is pretty weak. I can usually think of a half dozen
plausible reasons for most dietary events--often in total contradiction
with each other.
>Therefore the new rule added to instincto theory was, that one should eat
>meat of cultivated animals only if it smells and tastes great and only as
>long as it tastes very good. One shouldn't go on until the stop comes.
So why don't the Chateau instinctos do that? As JL asked, why not seriously
restrict fruit imports as well. And how about veggies, nearly all of which
are even further bred away from their wild progenetors?
>Generally one should prefer game meat. Consequentially Orkos is offering
>much more game meat. This meat gives clear stops. (oh yes!)
>All of this sounds reasonable. And it is necessary just because we are
>living in today's world with all of its pitfalls. In ancient times there
>were no cultivated animals and that's that.
It sounds resonable, yes, so why isn't it applied to fruits and veggies as
well?
>Kirt:
>>So what do you eat? Only ORKOS stuff? I am baffled that you appear to have
>>pride that you get sick eating organic food. Does this prove you are very
>>very Pure?
>
>Be baffled or not but my experience with organic food here in Germany has
>shown also that a lot of it is of low quality. The problem is the high
>heaps of compost. They are a cooking device, generating temperatures much
>higher than 40 degrees Celsius (104F). Thousands of unknown substances
>are created in this pretty oven. On the other hand a commercial fertilizer
>contains may be 20 to 40 known substances. Therefore it's not so unbe-
>lievable that organic food can be drastically worse than commercial one.
>Yeah, the pesticides are left out but in get thousands of unknow substances.
>Dunno what is better on the long run but several times organically grow
>food intoxicated me much more than conventional one.
>If U.S. rules for organic farming forbid using of high-heap compost your
>supply would have a big advantage. Tell me what you know about these rules.
There is nothing about heat processing of soil ammendments in US organic
regulations that I know of. I remain skeptical about compost temps causing
your troubles.
>Kirt:
>>If you couldn't explain away the polio with the bananas then you would be
>>left with the conclusion that wild nature isn't as perfect as you might
>>like it to be. Or you might make up (or adopt) another longshot
>
>At least I had to face the fact that wild animals seem to live with para-
>sites (the mongoose, the fishes with their worms,...) and human beings,
>even instinctos die of them. A nice evolution that lets those who are
>higher in evolution die while the others survive. I wonder how our world
>has managed to evolve over the state of bacteria.
Yes, you had to face that. If you hang in there you will likely face more
as time goes by. It takes a while to see the world ins't as simple as
instincto--nor as simple as instincto with more and more ad hoc rules.
>Kirt:
>>Karl, it almost appears that you have a very weakened digestive system.
>>Again, you seem almost proud of this. But, at least you said "most
>>instinctos" instead of "all"...;)
>
>I mentioned in an earlier post that the same applies to me. And I know of
>other instinctos who consider it to be best, if nothing else is eaten
>after mammal meat. Our immune system does the hardest job with this
>because the protein structure is very similar to ours.
Huh? Is this another Guy-Glaude analysis? For the record, I have no
difficulty eating veggies after RAF, even salads. Instincto lore offers so
many placebos (albeit theoretical ones) that it becomes nearly impossible
to tell what people's experience might be w/o the indoctrination.
>We are genetically
>identical 90% or more with mammals.
And from 40% to 60% similar to various bacteria. It is the -differences-
that make the difference.
>If the immune system would fail
> y o u would be digested instead of the meat you ate. Nice, eh?
Are you suggesting that this is what happens when you have difficulty
digesting RAF?
>It might be a good idea, not to increase the burden on your digestion
>by eating a mono-meal in this case.
I'm coming to the mind that a mono-meal is almost inherently _un_balanced.
The consumption of one foods affects the taste of another, sometimes
positively sometimes negatively. If you need a particular "nutritional
profile" at a given meal it is unlikely that a single food would match that
profile as exactly as a combination. Further, the digestion requirements
(and probably nutrient contents) of a particular food alter the needed
"nutritional profile" in mid-meal, so to speak. A most dramatic example of
this is with a berry called the "miracle berry" where after eating a single
berry, a few lemons, even unripe, can be eaten with sweet sweet pleasure by
many people. Or: I encountered a herb in Thailand called ka-teen, which
tastes sweet after oysters, but like tobacco before. I'd bet many
instinctos notice a similar thing, though certainly not as dramatic, with
their staple foods and gravitate to certain pleasurable combinations (avo
after acid fruit, romaine after brains, etc)
>But you are free to experiment and I welcome your results.
Thank you.
>Kirt:
>>This concept of tolerance is quite _needed_ in instincto lore. It can
>>provide the fall back excuse when the standard instincto excuses seem
>>absurd. One ends up with an empty, yet water-tight, basket.
>
>Yes, the concept is essential. Tolerance is, what your body does to
>protect you from the consequences of toxins you ate. If in cooked times
>your body would have reacted adequately to the toxins you put in, you
>already were dead. Instead it went into tolerance with all the toxins.
>Only the worst toxins cause a heavy reaction from time to time.
>(This is called disease then. :-))
>Didn't you know this concept? And the conclusions, the breaking of
>tolerances with raw food?
The tolerance I'm refering to is the extension of this concept to raw
foods. If instinct protects us with raw food then why the "bad" tolerance?
I know, I know, the food has to be from ORKOS or else it doesn't count,
right? OK, does tolerance ever develop with ORKOS food? I had some contacts
at ORKOS through the early nineties and they knew full well what foods
people over-ate. Apparently I'm not the only person on the planet who
doesn't get much of a stop on avos ;) Further, one joke was repeated by the
staff: Q: Where's Guy-Claude? A: He's "testing" the <pistachios, dates,
almonds, honey, fill in whatever was suspect and in stock>
>Kirt:
>>Both frozen and fired reactions occur in nature even if humans had never
>>evolved. You may be mis-using the word "natural" as well as
>>"not-so-natural".
>
>At this point I have a cynical question: Why don't you leave instinctive
>nutrition and become a SADer? You might even have the chance to eat food
>that has been both: frozen and cooked. Wow!
I left instincto many many months ago by eating salads consistently. I did
it because it helped me enjoy otherwise unattractive veggies (relative to
fruit) and not to eat so much fruit. I now am further from instincto as I
test raw dairy, eat steamed veggies, and are you ready: enjoyed much of a
glass of wine (organic, sulfite-free, of course ;)). Now, let's talk about
a taste change: the wine had a clearer change than most fruit. So..it seems
plausable to me that our paleolithic ancestors were making mead (a
fermented honey drink) for a long enough period that we have evolved new
genetic material to utilize it. ;) <it's a joke! but the taste-change
wasn't...
Still, you nevertheless didn't respond to the original points.
>One personal thing:
>Kirt, from reading the archives it seemed that you were enthusiastic
>about instincto, just a few months ago. It seemed to work for you and
>you seemed to thrive on it. Your arguments about RAF sounded good,
>scientifically well reasoned.
There is sparse scientific data available to directly support RAF. My
arguments for RAF do "sound good" sometimes. But that's all they are,
Stephan, its not that big a deal. Maybe for a raw vegan who is suffering
deficiencies it could be important news, but I don't want to have
instinctos running around everywhere you look. I'd rather have a good
bicycle pump.
>And now you seem to be very uncomfortable with instincto. I don't give
>this to just the items concerning trichinosis and malaria, coming up in
>this list. Could it be that you personally are in a phase of depression?
>Where the future seems to be dangerous and dark? Where all your good
>ideas have been gone? Where nothing seems to work?
>Really, I am very worried about your more and more depressive and cynical
>posts.
>If I do misinterpret it all, I would be glad if I would be corrected.
Your impressions are correct--otherwise you wouldn't have them, eh? ;)
Yes, I am uncomfortable with instincto. It has gone nowhere fast in a
couple decades. Partly because of plain old fundamentalism and partly
because of Burger himself, among other reasons. Trich and malaria are
telling to me, but I suspect it is the emotional aspects of instinctos
which edges out my concerns about the unfulfilled physical health of lots
of instinctos. Fringe diets attract fringe people, but, again, if instincto
is True, why such a horrible track record?
The future, dark and dangerous? Hard to say ;) Probably more likely light
and care-free, but who is to know? If you read my previous posts you will
find a dissatisfaction with "pure" instincto from early on, from the
beginning of my posts (back when we lived in NZ). I am looking forward to
putting this stage of my life to rest--I am hopefully much wiser, but yes,
very much more cynical about instincto than I was my first couple "found
the Truth" years, especially when there is always a fresh crop of
glassy-eyed instinctos coming on willing to bandy about the instincto
cliches as God's own. There are many more people who _used_to_ eat pure
instincto than there are people who still do. There might be something
worth hearing in their voice...(if you want to learn about heroin, talk to
an _ex_junkie, so to speak). Of course, the reply is likely to be that I am
now a former cooked food/culture junkie who has forsaken the Path of raw
unmixed Truth--that I am a junkie returned to the needle. If so, that may
explain why few of the less fundamental former instinctos care to share
their experience with you...
I'm sure I appear depressive and cycnical to you, and your concern is
touching, but try and imagine it from the other end and you might see
yourself as overly-assured and wearing rose-colored glasses. Nirvana is a
noun, certainly not a diet...
Cheers,
Kirt
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