Hi Mark,

I had said:
> >It seemed that both you and Mark readily agreed that 100% raw vegan
> >diets are not, in fact, good for everyone. And yet you both took
> >issue with my expressing this. Why is that?

You said:
> Am I the Mark you are referring to?  I don't remember agreeing to that.

Here's what you said, Mark. Maybe I misinterpreted??   :(   You
said:

"For what it's worth, I agree that one is not necessarily relatively
healthy just because one is eating mostly raw food."

> .. psychologically speaking, there are no doubt millions of people who
> would die after a week of raw vegan eating because they have been
> conditioned to believe that they NEED animal products.

Well, I don't know if they'd DIE, :0, but I sure do agree with your
point regarding the power of our beliefs to affect our health. :)
For instance, in the case you've presented, the converse could also
conceivably be true. Someone who had been conditioned to believe
that meat is BAAAAAD could get very ill eating a delicious steak :)

I had asked, (Again, sorry to be so graphic here!!! :(
> >2. How did you retrieve it?

You said,
> Stuck my hand in the toilet and grabbed it.

So, how long would you say it took to pass this, and how big was it?
Was it hard to retrieve? (I'm asking, because I'd like to tell your
story - confidentially and anonymously of course - to others)

I had asked,
> >3. What prompted you to take it to the doctor for analysis?

You said:
> I wanted him to tell me what it was.

Did you think it was cancer at the time?

I had asked:
> >7. What type of cancer did the lab say that this was?

You said:
> Stage 2 carcinoma, or Grade 2, something like that.  I have the
> lab report somewhere.

Yes, would it be possible to know? Thanks.

You had said (about Richard Anderson)
>...get me the gory details, but make sure they're accurate before you
> slander him in public.

Well, it sounds like you LIKE this man, so now I don't know - do you
really want to hear what he's done? I mean, I have no problem
asking, but you don't sound like you particularly care one way or
the other as far as how that might influence your decision to buy
his products, his books, do his cleanse, etc. I guess I have no
interest in bad-mouthing him just for the sake of bad-mouthing him,
BUT, if he is in fact a fraud (like it sounded like he was), and if
in fact his products are dangerous like they said, and if it might
be helpful to you in some way, then I'm glad to do a little asking
around. :)

> He wasn't in jail as of at least a couple of years ago, when
> I saw him at Breitenbush Hot Springs.  (Not that his being in jail
> would necessarily trouble me.)

Well, "they" (meaning two long-time sales-people at "Smile Herb
Shop" in College Park, Maryland (a huge herb shop and school for
herbal type classes, where the U. of Maryland is) said a few years,
and they said this last year. And they had to pull all his products
of the shelves, they were recalled.

> I have a friend who was selling the products as of a couple of months
> ago, when he was let go because he was not meeting their quota.

Is it a multi-level-marketing arrangement now? Or has it always
been? I didn't know that.

> You are really too much.

Why, thank you !! :) I take that as a compliment! :D (hope it was
meant as one!!)

> you go on anyway to imply that he got his degree through the mail.

To be honest, I didn't have any clue where he got his degree. I
didn't intend to imply anything, really. However I DID say outright
that I'd be totally surprised if he had gotten his degree from
Bastyr (which, in my opinion, is the only legitimate program, at
this time, for a degree as a naturopath).

> Bastyr is not the only legitimate naturopathic college around.

Well, I'm curious, which others do you think are worthwhile? And why?

> Why don't you make sure your facts are correct before you
> slam people in public?

Oh, I just like to slam and swat away clumsily, like a big
uncoordinated klutz  :D (just kidding).

> First you jump on JR, a layman who never pretended to be anything else,

hee hee :)

check it out
  that's all
      i'll say
        :)

> Then you
> start slamming Anderson on the basis of gossip from your local herb shop.

Hmmmm. What do these two have in common? :)

> Who knows, maybe the gossip you've heard is right.

I don't know - but I'll ask, and we'll find out one way or another,
ok? :)

> Maybe you're the type of person who would say these things to somebody's
> face, I don't know.

:D Thank you, yes I am! :)

Very much so! :)

(Actually, I'm not sure _which_   "things"  you mean, but I'm sure
I'd say  "them,"   whatever   "they"  are!) :D

>  But I do know it doesn't take much courage to post
> irresponsible stuff like this on a mailing list.

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. Partially true, but not entirely.
:)

For instance, did you ever consider the possibility that some of the
people on the list might also have real personal relationships, in
person? Some of us live close to each other, in the same state and
neighborhood.

Some attend the same professional conventions and meetings. :)

> Maybe you need to spend less time listening to colon therapists and
> reading college anatomy and physiology textbooks

:0 Hmmmm, maybe. I kind of thought it was a good idea to talk to
professionals, who do this all day every day, for a living. You
don't agree with that strategy I guess.

> When I did the Arise & Shine cleanse, an unbelievable amount of gunk
> came out, and it was black and looked almost exactly like the pictures in
> Bernard Jensen's book

If you eat a lot of psyllium, and black stuff, the kind of stool
you'll get (pardon me for being graphic) is black psyllium husks
shaped like your colon. :)

> I don't think you'll find much trusty evidence if you are dismissing
> anybody who doesn't have an M.D. or a Ph.D after their name.
> Instead, listen to totally unqualified people like me, who have no degrees

:o  Hmmmm.  uh -    why?

> Here is a story from Richard Anderson's book which might also help sell
> you: "What Goes In Doesn't Always Come Out.

I have this book Mark. The book is really, (just my own personal
book review here)
D U M B.  Sorry. :(

> if we are engaging in a discussion about nutrition or some other
> subject, trying to advance our knowledge, it does little good to.....
> ridicule people for what they may have said in the past.

Hmmmm. Even if they are well-known for dishonesty? Or pressing a
personal agenda? Or for their pretentious posturing as some sort of
artsy type who is on some higher spiritual plane due do their
superior diet? =:0

> I remember advocating nuclear disarmament in a discussion with my dad
> when I was about 30, and he blew up and reminded me of the Che Guevara
> T-shirt I wore when I was in high school (not one of my prouder memories).

Would you mind clarifying a little bit Mark? What is the connection
between nuclear disarmament and Che Guevara (I thought he was the
champion for share-croppers, Latino grape-farm workers, to be exact,
and the horrendous conditions they and their families had to work
and live under? Am I totally wrong here?) So I'm completely confused
- why are you not proud of the T-shirt? And what does this man have
to do with nuclear disarmament? (I'm sure lots of our non-United
States-ers are wondering, too, what you're referring to here).

> Needless to say, our discussion of the nuclear problem came to an abrupt
> and unpleasant end.

??? Huh? Not following you at all here.

Love Liza
--
[log in to unmask] (Liza May)