Loren:
>Regardless of what science "knows" or thinks it "knows," I know what
>works for me, and most people who allow their bodies a chance to get
>cleaned out. >That I exist on 1000 calories or less is not debatable.
>It is fact. Whether you choose to doubt the validity of this fact is
>your business.

Tom:
The claim that one can thrive on a diet far below starvation levels
in calorie terms, is the hallmark of fakes. Invariably, if one can
get additional data on such folks, one might find they are
under-reporting their actual food intake, and/or binge-eating in
secret (often on cooked and/or junk food) and lying about it.

Loren:
>Paul, I must respectfully disagree with you.  Tom has not done a good
>job responding to me point by point.  I have not looked at the suggested
>website because time has not allowed it yet.  I have read everything I
>have been able to find over the last 15 years, and have seen no evidence
>whatsoever that man is anything but a frugivore.

Tom:
You have failed or refused to read a very long paper with hundreds of
citations to peer-reviewed scientific publications. One cannot reason
with you as you seem to have a closed mind. There is little point in
me even trying to have a discussion with you. From my perspective,
you spout dogma that is known to be false (the frugivore lie)
and make claims associated with fakes. Why should I waste time
trying to convince you of anything -- it is impossible to convince
"true believers" of anything that is contrary to their beliefs.

Loren:
>All of the a nthropoid primates are frugivorous, and we share over
>98.5% of our genetic material with all of them.  Our digestive tracts
>are identical. Are all the primates frugivores except man?  Does that
>make any sense to anyone?

Tom:
The errors in your argument above, are covered in great depth in
the paper you have not read:

Comparative Anatomy and Physiology Brought Up To Date
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml

PS gorillas are folivores, they are not frugivorous. Humans are
omnivores/faunivores.

Loren:
>There are hundreds of papers that conclude that man is a frugivore.
>The fact there is one paper, or many that disagrees with that certainly
>doesn't prove anything.  I challenge anyone to find one are of science
>that's not >controversial, one area that doesn't have "experts" with
>completely opposite opinions, and who have "proved" their opinions in
>their scholarly work.

Tom:
First, produce the hundreds of papers. Then eliminate the ones
based on pseudo-science or that are pre-1900. You will have virtually
nothing left! There are literally no credible modern scientists
claiming
that humans are frugivores (there are a few crank fruitarian
fanatics who pretend to be scientific, but who must resort to
late 1800's quotes from Darwin, and twisting and blatantly
misrepresenting
the writings of D.J. Chivers, in order to make their intellectually
dishonest claims that humans are fruitarians, look valid).

As you refuse to listen to facts, and you continue to make science
fiction claims (1000 calories/day), this is the point for me to bow
out of
any further discussion with you. No point in wasting any more time
with
you.

PS to readers. I would remind readers that T.C. Fry was defending
fruitarianism while he was on his deathbed. When any raw diet guru
claims perfect health as Loren has - can you believe them?

Tom Billings