--- Liza May <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Andre,
> > I've been a vegan for over 20 years & have tried
> > Raw Foodism for over a year.

Started at 18years old in 1975(prior to this - was on
an average carnivous diet).

> 20 years is a long time. How's your health overall?

Overall my health is very very good.

Last checkup
- minor low white blood cell count -doctor said it could be genetic or
  "normal" for me (42years old, 5'8', 205, black)
- cholestorol was 165
- blood pressure historically borderline(I attribute it remaining
  borderline (rather than high that runs in my family) due to the
vegan
  diet.  When I went rawfoodist for an entire year - the weight went
  down to 180 & the blood pressure went to normal.
- Now that I’m vegan again(since July 98), my weight is back up to
205!

> I'm not surprised you've got some concerns.
>
> > I can't seem to figure out why my breath, stool & gas is VERY foul.
>
> Could indicate improper intestinal flora.
>
> But a better question might be, why do you have gas? Gas is not a
> good thing - means you're not digesting something properly. We're
> not supposed to be bloated and gasey after eating.
>
> Could also be that your (or your significant others') interpretation
> of "VERY foul" is a little overstated. Poop isn't supposed to smell
> like roses - especially in scavenger omnivorous animals like we are.
> It's not supposed to smell sweet like cow or horse poop, for
> instance, (both of which, to me, are totally wonderful, cozy,
> welcoming, comforting smells).

MY wife & kids run to an alternate level of the house when I use the
facilities on a level!  It’s FOUL - I can past back by the room an
attest to it being FOUL myself.  It much fouler that the other
members of the family(they eat everything but red meat)

also another post mentioned:
>"Sounds to me like it could be a toxic bowel. People with toxic
>bowels have very foul breath. You may want to try a good cleanse"
>I’ve got plenty of gas (just as foul at the stool).
>I will also investigate this further.

also yet another post was detailing food combining as
a possible cause.  Is there a GOOD book on food combining?
I decided to go vegan because it just did not seem
morally right for humans to eat meat.  I unfortunately
did not have an interest in getting a degree in
digestion or nutrition when I went vegan.  Take a car
for an example.  I mean you kind of know that a
??????? is a good car to buy - but you care not to
know all the mechanical specifications as to
inter-workings of the ???????’s engine, carburetor,
fuel system, etc.  And you may even use Shell brand of
gas instead of Gas & Go brand, without knowing
chemically what the different effect it may have on
the engine.  Do you get my point a little?

From looking at the various responses to Bad Breath
thusfar - I’m thinking you’re suggestion may be on
queue.  With all my "natural" eating habits - for some
reason I think you’re right.  I’m not digesting
something.  What is intestinal, flora I’ve pretty much
always have been bloated, but I’ve attributed that to
my lack of exercise.  I thought the pot belly was from
not enough sit ups, etc.

Oh by the way - I do have one bad vice here.
Some people drink too much alcohol(which I’ve never drank).
Some people smoke cigarettes (I never tried).
Some people do drugs(take a wild guess).
My only vice here is OVEREATING!!!  I just love to eat
- what can I say. I don’t overeat 100% of the time though.
perhaps 10% of my eating sessions - I can walk away
past the "hungry" mark
90% of my eating sessions - full
10% of my eating sessions - stuffed - GLUTTONY

>
> > I could try to blame the breath on may also periodontal disease,
>
> That is certainly what I'd assume, if I were you. A better question
> might be, why on earth do you have periodontal disease? If it were
> me, I'd be wondering about my diet!
>
> > but why is stool & gas so foul.

I think I inherited this - my mom & dad had it as
well.  I tend to rule this out though because my stool & gas are
problem areas.  I could see the periodontal as an adding factor to
the foul breath, but not the root cause.

> The gas thing again ...... are you eating lots of beans (like many
> vegans, desperately hungry for protein)? Soooo many people cannot
> digest beans (legumes). Have you looked at this yet:
>
> http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml
>
> You'll find discussions there that might help you think about your
> diet choices, and possible digestion problems, that might help
> answer your odor questions.
>

Yep lots of beans on vegan diet - but not when I was on raw for a
year.

> > i don't drink 1/2 hour before meals or 2 hours after meals
>
> I wouldn't worry about drinking with a meal. Both animals in the
> wild, and domesticated animals, drink with their
> meals, all the time. And what about soup? Isn't that drinking with
> a meal? I think you may be giving yourself a hard time here. Just
> drink if you're thirsty (water - I guess this is another discussion
> topic altogether.  I seem to have formulated this opinion
> (from early 1970’s research on veganism) that drinking
> with meals dilutes the digestive juices.

> > my exercise level on a scale of 1 (bad) to 10 (excellent)
> > would be a 2.

I just mentioned this in case it may have a effect on
the bad breath issue

> That doesn't sound like you're too pleased with your exercise
> level. Certainly contributes to your overall level
> of health, and therefore efficiency of digestion.

I’m working on improving this shortcoming.

> By the way - have you been tested for B12? If so,
> what did they test?

I will look at getting tested for this - a major problem as you
know for vegans

> Take a look at the article on vegans and B12 at the> above site.
> It's very informative.

Will do!

> > Typical weeks diet for me would be
> > 30% raw salads w/commercial (health food store) dressing
> > 30% raw nuts(peanuts, pistachios & raw cashews)
> > 15% fresh fruit
> > 10% cooked fresh veggies(corn, peas, string beans, potatoes)
> >  5% frozen health food variety garden/veggie burger products
> >  3% tofu
> >  2% oatmeal
> >  1% soy milk
> >  1% heatlh food whole wheat bread
> >  1% pastaurized(preferably not concentrated) fruit juices
> >  1% honey
> >  1% margarine/safflower oil/
> >
> > Any suggestions - could there be something else
> > medically wrong with me?
>
> I don't particularly like a number of the foods you've got on your
> list - but who knows what you can and cannot make use of -
> everybody's different.

Just a sampling.  I DO eat more than that!!!

>
> In answer to your second question, yes, there could be something
> medically "wrong" with you - your periodontal disease for one. But I
> wouldn't necessarily call it "wrong" - I would think of it as "off
> balance" - not just semantics - rather, a fundamentally different
> way of thinking about how to approach health problems.
>
> > It amazes me that some of my canivirous eating
> > associates never seem to have this problem.
>
> Hmmmmm. How would you KNOW this? :)
>
> > (although i'm sure there are some meat eaters with
> > this problem as well
>
> Yes, you are right about that!  :)
>
> J. R. Ellis gives medical advice:
> since you are mostly all raw you are relatively healthy
>
> This is utter nonsense.
>
> Furthermore, advice like this is irresponsible, and quite
> possibly dangerous.
>
> You are not in a position to know anything at all about Andre's
> health. For all you know, he could have some serious degenerative
> disease, and yet you pose as an expert, advising him that because of
> raw food he must be "relatively healthy."
>
> It is a completely foolish myth, that raw food in the diet
> guarantees anything. Those who promote this foolish, militant
> "raw is law" type nonsense have some personal agenda.
>
> Evidently, J. R. Ellis, you do not appear to be well informed on
> either the science behind human nutrition, the current research
> findings in this field, or the abundance of
> and anecdotal evidence that shows clearly that this notion of
> rawness having any particularly significant importance in the diet
> is just silliness.
>
> > and you are able to get rid of poisons quickly
>
> This is just some more silliness, taken from old, easy-reading,
> popular literature found in the health-food stores.
>
> > the small amount of cooked that you do eat can be responsible
>
> :D
>
> > keep in touch if you try it
>
> If you would like to keep in touch with J. R. Ellis, he runs an
> internet mailing list for people who are devoted to this
> "all-raw-diet" thinking. You will get a lot of encouragement over
> there to stick with your veganism, and to try to get your diet to
> the point of nothing cooked whatsoever.
>
> He also runs a 12-step program on the internet, for people who are
> supposedly "addicted" to cooked foods (maybe they're just hungry?
> :D).  Anyway, I'm sure he'll be delighted to tell you all about it.
> :)