> Carol:
> > we often had animal
> > rights people protesting outside our labs, and the attitude of the
> > profs was "If you're interested in ethics, you don't belong here.
> > You belong out there with them."
>
> Liza:
> *ALL* the profs?

All of those that I heard address the subject, yes.

> I'm surprised. Usually people at universities are pretty progresssive
> types, as a group (after all, they're "you and me" , right? Just
> students who never leave school :)  )

I disagree.  I have found them, as a group, to be snobbish, cliquish,
uncreative, and fearful.  That is not to say that there weren't very
wonderful exceptions but that I found such characteristics to be
disturbingly common.

> Carol:
> > I grew up with scientists too.  They're people, and lots of people
> > have that passion.
>
> Liza:
> Maybe. Just like you find a special passion for the arts among
> artists, or a passion for music among musicians, or a passion for
> theater among actors, or a passion for sports among basketball
> players,  I DO think you find a special passion for science among
> scientists, and a special passion for education among those who make
> their lives in educational institutions.

But let's not forget that there's no reason why a basketball player
cannot also have a great interest in bacteriology, or an engineer in
music.  We're not allowed only one interest in life.  Also, there
is a HUGE difference between a passion for education and a passion
for learning, but that's a whole other tirade. :)

> Carol:
> > There are plenty of folks who haven't had the opportunities you
> > and I have had, but still share such a love of learning.
>
> Liza:
> I agree! :) Just like their are LOADS of supremely talented
> musicians who don't make their livings as musicians.

And like there are LOADS of supremely talented musicians who don't
have degrees in music.

> Carol:
> > If they can't afford a "legitimate"
> > education, if they have to get it at libraries and in their spare
> > time, that says nothing whatsoever about the quality of their know-
> > ledge.
>
> Liza:
> It might, actually. If you've got to do it in your spare time, and
> on your own volition, and with whatever happens to be available at
> your local library, it's probably  _harder_  to get the same quality
> of education. C'mon now.

If someone lives in Lower Podunk, miles from the nearest good college,
they'll find the library route harder, certainly, but that isn't the
point.  The point is that we don't automatically know by someone's
titles and letters, or lack thereof, what their situation is.  They
could be a titled, respected idiot, a self-educated genius, or any-
thing in between.  Knowing which college, if any, someone went to
doesn't guarantee anything.

> Carol:
> > It does say a lot about their passion, however, and I've
> > known precious few who hold "legitimate" degrees who could hold a
> > candle to the earnest self-educator in that department.
>
> Liza:
> What can I say? You and I know different people. :)

And attended very different universities. :)

> Carol:
> > ...the worship of "experts" that is promoted so heavily these days.
>
> Liza:
> Yes, I agree, I agree. :) "Worship" of "experts"  (meaning, trusting
> THEIR thinking above YOUR OWN) is   _not_  a good thing. I agree
> wholeheartedly.  ESPECIALLY when it comes to YOUR health!!!  :D

Amen.

Carol