Traci, after re-reading my response to your fasting question, I want to
 apologize, as on second take, it seems too confrontational, or harsh, or
 authoritarian or something, or at least parts of it do. What was going on
 is I was responding to something that may not even have been in your post,
 so let me just clarify want I was trying to get across.

I would be interested in your motivations behind wanting to make sunflower
 sprouts the bulk of your intake after fasting. It may not have anything to
 do with the following analysis, and it may make me look absolutely
 ridiculous for going on at great length here, but it seems at least worth
 bringing up as something to be aware of whether it is the case for you or not.

The reason I ask the "why" question is because of a syndrome or pattern I've
 come to notice among those following natural hygiene or other
 "detoxification" approaches to health. What I've found striking after
 having steeped enough in that particular tradition is that the motivation
 behind the toxemia-is-the-basic-cause-of-all-disease approach often turns
 from an initial practical interest in detoxification to an obsession that
 becomes something like the religious preoccupation with "original sin" and
 redeeming oneself of it, only in this case it is something like "original toxemia."

If one makes the assumption that toxemia is the only underlying cause of all
 disease (as many natural hygienists seem to)--or at least if it is
 approached that way in practice--then the psychological motivations for
 fasting and eating often cease to become merely practical and become
 co-opted by a "redemptionist" quasi-religious quest. What was practical
 becomes imbued with a strong element of religious-type superstition in the
 unseen toxemia that one cannot really verify completely, and so one's
 philosophy can begin to obscure whatever realities to detoxification there
 may be and blow them all out of proporation.

One's overriding goal becomes greater and greater purification towards the
 holy grail of complete detoxification that ever recedes as one's perceived
 level of detoxification continually falls short of the postulated goal. In
 itself, the goal for detoxification is reasonable enough, but it becomes
 problematic when detoxification becomes the first thing and the only thing
 one focuses on.

Also, a certain line is crossed when the idea arises that not only should
 one be completely detoxified, there is the also the idea that if one "sins"
 (eats anything not on one's approved food plan that might cause toxemia),
 the only way to be *sure* one can cleanse oneself is to fast again. Or to
 go on a more restricted diet to compensate for awhile. That the body can't
 handle any bobbles through its own everyday action and we must always
 intervene with cleansing of our own attempts. What happens is that one gets
 painted into a corner where because "no one is without sin" (we all goof up
 from time to time), one can never be sure after one has sinned if that sin
 is really forgiven or not (cleansed from the body by normal processes).
 Thus to redeem oneself, one must always either fast or go on some sort of
 cleansing program to redeem oneself.

=46ollowing from this is the idea that to remain pure and undefiled and also
 to serve as proof ("signs" or "by their fruits ye shall know them"), one
 should go even further and be able to live on the rarified atmosphere ("man
 does not live by bread alone") of an even more restricted
 diet--permanently. Such as, sometimes, fruits alone (fruitarianism),
 sprouts alone (sproutarianism), or even just air alone (breatharianism).
 And if one is not able to do so, then it means one is not really purified,
 and thus the only recourse is to do further cleansing until one is really
 pure enough to do so.

But after awhile this becomes a *habit* divorced from any real reason. Even
 if one did reach perfect detoxification, the urge towards self-restriction
 would continue because of the psychological dynamics which have become
 ingrained. So it usually ends up becoming a self-reinforcing vicious cycle
 and one never reaches the "goal." Not only does one never reach one's *own"
 *perceived* goal (which might actually be illusory because the perceptual
 goalposts keep getting moved farther and farther back), but what often
 happens is after being on the cleansing diets and restricted intakes for
 long enough, instead of toxemia being a problem, deficiency (depletion of
 one's reserves) may set in.

Yet because of the overriding fixation on toxemia, any health problems
 experienced are always viewed as "cleansing crises" requiring yet more
 cleansing in the effort to live on a rarified diet. What usually happens if
 people are really hooked into this dynamic is that they go through a cycle
 of cleansing and sinning, cleansing and sinning (because one's body is
 crying out for more nutrition and drives one to eat something different,
 *anything* different in an attempt to make up the nutritional shortfall).
 Or if they do not sin, they continually feel they still must not have
 figured the "system" out completely (whatever the system may be), and so
 they go on searching here, and searching there. But of course, that's all
 part of the allure--we all want to be on a quest. Only in this case, the
 goal of improved health gets lost.

Once this goes on long enough, it's almost like the person becomes so locked
 into this way of thinking they are never again able to see food and eating
 any other way. (Just as fundamentalists rarely ever change their minds once
 in the clutches of a suitably self-perpetuating meme.) The mental defenses
 against any other way of looking at health become so thick and entangled as
 to become impervious to any other kind of reason.

The reason I bring all this up is because I know this paradigm all too well
 from having lived it myself. But finally through the school of hard knocks
 I eventually was forced to change my mind. What I noticed after 2 or 3 long
 fasts, was that, yes, fasting helped, but after a point, I was not really
 noticing any major differences anymore. So if detoxification was supposed
 to be all there was to health-building, then something was not working
 right. Now what I was told of course was the usual refrain that I was
 junking myself up in between fasts by not being 100% strict. The
 backsliding argument. But I only began noticing further improvements when
 instead of attempting to stay on a restricted diet, I began instead
 *expanding* the diet to include a wider range of foods. Again, I was
 harassed by the refrains, "It's just *overstimulation* from foods your body
 is trying to cleanse yourself of and reacting to!" It's false energy, not
 the real thing. You're just kidding yourself that you are feeling better.
 You're really NOT doing any better! Don't trust your feelings! Listen to
 *our* authoritative holy writ! And so forth.

At some point a person has to decide between two perspectives: Is one going
 to take toxemia or detoxification to be all there is to health? Is one
 going to turn one's goal into the reactionary opposite of their former
 all-american "more and more and more" is better to a simplistic opposite of
 "less and less and less" is better? Or do we try to strike a balance point
somehow?

Anyway, I just wanted to bring this underlying psychological dynamic up to
 be aware of in the quest to achieve detoxification. When one is aware of
 these dynamics then they lose some of their power to entrap. And maybe as I
 said I'm totally off the mark here in responding to your question about
 fasting and eating mostly sunflower sprouts afterwards, Robin, and I just
 being ridiculous. And I know from experience this alternate view of the
 detoxification paradigm (that I think it's valid to a point, but limited in
 its ability to do it all in turning health around and insufficient
 nutrition can cause just as many problems) borders on absolute heresy. So
 take it with a grain of salt. Some people *do* need a lot more
 detoxification than others. I just think it can go too far, so all I am
 saying is keep it in mind, remain aware of these tendencies we all are
 subject to, and make up your own mind

And sorry for being so long-winded!

--Ward Nicholson <[log in to unmask]> Wichita, KS