Below follows Bruno's response to Denis which was sent to me to review
first:

Best, Peter
[log in to unmask]


Denis wrote:
> I know you want truce Bruno,

Bruno wrote:
Do you mean "truth" by writing "truce" or is there a double meaning
subtlety I haven't worked out ? I must say that I'm surprised and that
there is a real deception on my side about your attitude lately, Denis.
This time I feel you've crossed the border and I'll answer more
directly.

My feeling is that we all should unite our efforts. There aren't many
raw eaters on the planet, but if we all work hand in hand and support
each other, I believe that during our short stay on earth we can
contribute to change the world in a positive way. I regard you as a
highly intelligent person and my feeling is that your intelligence
would be more useful if invested in a more constructive orientation.
For some reason, you seem to spend a lot of energy trying to criticize
Burger and myself lately. Burger is certainly not perfect, but he did
contribute positively in some aspects (which doesn't mean that you or I
have to agree with everything and the rest). The result of your recent
posts and of your position is that I would tend to "defend the absents"
(even ehough in this case it wouldn't be my spontaneous drive - as you
ver well know, I'm not a fanatic Burgerian - de beaucoup s'en faut).
But without him, you would never even had started eating instinctively
or your bibliographical research. Even if we don't agree on a person's
character or beliefs or behaviours, it's not a reason to disrespect
that person or be excessively injurious or disrespectful about him,
especially publicly, and especially when that person isn't present.

Denis wrote:
>and you are helpless

Sorry, Denis, this is wrong. I don't feel helpless at all. I feel fine.
Just a little disappointed because it seems like I'm losing a friend
and I hope he's not lost forever, that's all.

> because you know that I
> know a few things about you which people wouldn't like to hear about.

What few things ? I sincerely don't see what you're talking about. My
pro-nuclear ideas ? They're publicly expressed. My personal life ? It's
clean. My money ? It's all from my sweat, books and honest work in the
difficult arena of authors and independent researchers. I do my best in
my work and life and sincerely don't see what you're alluding to, and I
also don't see any reason to accept any form of pressure or menace from
you.

If there's anything you want to say that's public, please express it
publicly. If it's private matter, I'd rather you express it privately.
But of course you're free to do whatever you want.

>are lucky that we are in such a small committee here. For when the
>french  mailing list  will be up and running, it's gonna be tough shit
>for you,

Glad to hear that you're opening up a new french-raw list after our
phone discussion on the subject yesterday. It will certainly help
spread the good raw news. Best wishes of success.

Some people say that being  attacked or imitated means you're becoming
successful. Until now I was nothing but a small individual writing a
few books. Thanks for giving me so much help and consideration in your
latest mails.

>unless of course you change your attitude. You know that I'm a
>samurai. I can kill without a trace of emotion.

Gee wizz ! Rambo ! what a cowboy ! I'm really afraid ! This one is so
assertive that I can't believe it's totally true. I don't think you
would sincerely kill me or even Burger without emotion, Denis. If you
really could, you're a monster, not a human.

> I can be loving and thoughtful and considerate.

Hum, interesting statement. Of course you can.

> And you will not get truce before you strip yourself of your
> elitist pride.

That's a point and a message. I'll do my best.

> just as we need anybody  who is willing to cooperate to put the
>instincto movement back on its tracks.

Correct, we need everybody, but as you know I also think we would be
better off using one or several other words than instincto. Burger
doesn't want nor authorizes us to use it (it's a protected trademark).
And with what could possibly happen next when the meta/justice stuff
comes out, better not use it anyway, especially in France. My belief is
that you can't deeply change an existing movement without changeing the
leaders, and the leader of that one isn't you Denis, nor me, it's
Guy-Claude, and besides, legally you're not allowed to "put back in its
track" (in your view) the image of a trademark owned by somebody else
who doesn't want you to do that. It's better to create a new raw
instinctive movement on new bases, and with new people if necessary,
even if it's harder work and takes a little longer, than to try to
straighten out the crooked ones.

> You consider that a major portion
> of the instinctos are not worth knowing or frequenting.

Denis, I highly respect every individual on this planet. Even "far-out"
individuals like there are quite a few in the instinctive movement
(including you and me) are worth knowing. Every individual is unique
and can contribute in his way to the rest of society.

> same attitude  at  Montramé, and  the guys ostracized you as a
>result,

You're exagerating Denis. Please note that I stayed 6 years in Montramé
as a permanent. In any group, there's ups and downs for everybody in
the group. My position in the group wasn't always easy, but it wasn't
also as bad as you think it was. You may be surprised, but even
Guy-Claude as sometimes (not very often though, and probably not any
more now) strongly ostracized. This may be a natural function of group
dynamics to force every one of its members to let go of some of his
psycho-rigidity. Depending on the starting point and how the group is
managed, the situation can improve, or take a very long time to
improve, with many errings in the meanwhile. In the world of philosophy
or other areas, you certainly know a lot more than I do, Denis, but as
concerns group dynamics, I do feel like having more experience than
you, although you do have other great qualities.

> they called you names I can not decently mention here.

Was is that terrible ??? never heard those ??? can I know ??? really
indecent ? Even, if it's true, which I'm not sure, because you're
affabulating things up a little, is the most indecent person the
emitter or the receptor of the indecent talking ? And who of you and I
has specialized in acid-throwing style lately ?

> And you felt so bad about it that you were relieved when Burger
>instructed one of his "petit lieutenant" to tell you to fuck off,

You're probably talking about Nicolas ? To put things straight Denis,
that's not how it happened. Nicolas tried to push me out of the group,
but he didn't. The talking and agreements in this matter were between
GCB and I. I think we were both happy when I first came to Montramé,
and we similarly agreed upon the necessity to separate when I walked
out. Time had passed and my presence there wasn't desirable nor
necessary any more. What we had to do together had been done. No one
ever told me to "f... off", that's not how it happened. For the
historical detail, I'm the one who decided to leave, and announced it
to the group during a late-at-night meta discussion. The real reason of
my departure is that I don't accept the theory and did not totally
share some aspects of the meta and group life, which I consider to be
inacceptable in my standards, as you know. True that they didn't want
me to stay (the meta dimension was becoming stronger and more fanatical
as time passed by)and that they were putting psychological and
financial pressure on me in the same way as they had done with Nicole
for years. I was as happy to leave the center as I was to put my
energy, money and efforts into it years earlier.


> all the while flashing smiles at you hypocritically.

He's like that. No one's perfect. You aren't. I'm not. He isn't. Human
nature. A very interesting specimen indeed !

> I'm also a graduate from the elitist grande ecole but I
> never considered I was any better than a mason or a plumber. And I'm
> proud to have filled the lowest posts in the community.

What community are you talking about ? As far as I remember, you stayed
in Montramé something like 2 or 3 weeks maximum and didn't really
participate in the group life ?

> Burger is a liar, Bruno. You know it. I know it. We all know it. A
>very  intelligent man worth knowing, but a liar, an hypocrit, a
>dissimulator. If he wasn't so, he would have kept a good number of
>friends amongst all the people who poured their goodwill and gave up
>their wages for the reconstruction of Montramé.

I agree to some extent, but also think you're overdoing it a little
bit.
What he has done can be strongly critized (I agree) but it's also quite
admirable and what he has done isn't that easy to build. It's even very
difficult. Maybe you would understand that a lot better if you really
had let go of your wages for more than a couple of weeks. Even if he
constructed the instincto by mildy acceptable actions (by social
standards or our standards but maybe not from his point of view), he's
still a pionneer and the person so far to have reached one of the
greatest level of impact, strength, as well as structural and financial
development of a rawist movement, even if, as you know, the whole
system may implode or explode at any minute because of his personality
and strategical mistakes (by our standards but probably not in his own
logic).

> But even after fifteen years on the french
> territory, he had to resort to some last minute German donator to get
> the last thousands of francs to buy his Chateau...

It isn't that easy to buy a chateau, Denis, to restore it, and to keep
it operational with no initial money. You'll be entitled to give
lessons moneywise after doing better than he has.

> he fed you for so long that you
> cannot speak against him anymore.

It's not that I can't (like you, I'm free to speak), more that I don't
want to speak against him. I prefer being positive and working with
people than against them. Same with you Denis. I'd rather unite our
forces than to waste our precious time and energy. But maybe this
discussion is useful even if it isn't only postive.

> You want to  play in your  sandpit alone, in your scrawny "IBC"  ?

I'm not alone, appreciate working with other people and hope it'll be
even more the case in the future. "The IBC is the most scrawny, ugly
tiny, stupid, useless association I've ever seen". It's your right to
believe that if you want to.

> You think you need the nuclear industry subsidies more than you need
>the support and organization that instinctos  are putting in place
>everywhere in Paris, in southern France, everywhere where people  are
>fed up with Montramé ?

We need to be open to any contributive and positive energy and to
cooperate as harmoniously as possible all together. We certainly won't
build a better world by fighting each other but more through
cooperation, communication (which is what we're doing now) and mutual
respect.

> But then, don't try to make me feel bad for having
> recovered my freedom of speech (you will not succeed anyway ).

Not trying to make you feel bad Denis. Superficially, I'm probably more
affected by the tense situation between us these last few days than you
are, because I considered, and still do, you as a reliable friend. But
of course, you are free to say publicly whatever you want. But please
note that we won't stay friends for long if you maintain constant
attacks in my direction (especially publicly or behind my back).

> I'll continue telling  the people what I think of you, sincererly and
> honestly, emotionless as usual.

You may be emotionless in more ordinary circumstances but not today.

> Anyway it's nice of you to have posted the story on Burger and
>malaria. I hope I did not force you too much.

You didn't. I thought it was a good idea to share it even though it was
initially written for a specific person.

> You have so many stories to tell us about Burger.  I'm just  yearning
>to read some of them on the list. So do Kirt and others, I'm sure.

Ask Burger the stories about Burger, even if he gives his own version,
or give your own version if you think he's a liar. So far, I
personnally don't feel it's correct to go publicly into too much
details about other people's life. I feel it isn't a correct thing to
do, nor for you to put pressure on me to do it, especially when it gets
private. Better to share our own experience.

>By the way, Bruno, could you tell me where you put this story about
>Burger's paludism  in  "Maximize Immunity" ? You wouldn't have
>forgotten it, would you ?

I didn't know about that story when I wrote the first edition of the
book, so evidently I couldn't have included it then. Burger doesn't
tell these stories usually and I learned it over the years from other
persons, which he then confirmed when I questioned him about it. In the
newest edition of Maximize immunity, I did include a passage saying
that there has been problems with malaria even if on a raw diet, and
that if sickness occurs, anti-malarian treatment should immediately be
undertaken. There's no reason I wouldn't say the truth, even more so
when people's lives are at risk.

Denis, I would appreciate to continue working with you in the future if
you agree, and would also like to stay friends, if you don't mind ?

To the others : please excuse this somewhat negative and personal mail.
I hate this sort of situation. Denis is a friend, and we have done good
work together in the past, especially cooperating on the study he
initiated to assess the beneficial effects on health of a raw diet. I
don't exactly understand his present motivations, but he "challenged"
me openly. Don't like being stepped on my feet and felt I shouldn't
leave the attack unanswered, which could have been considered as an
approval of his opinions. I promise to avoid as much as possible this
type of debate in the future. Sorry. I think there's a proverb that
says "out of darkness comes the light" or something similar.

Be happy.

Sincerely yours. With best regards.

Bruno.