Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:18:03 -0700
From: Nieft / Secola <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ??defending all raw

OK, Peter, just for you: more entertainment.:) I had sent this privately to
Sandy, figuring that I'm posting too much, that it is too RAF, but what the
hay, eh?

>To: [log in to unmask]
>From: Nieft / Secola <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: ??defending all raw

>>Hi Kirt!

>>Thanks so much for the info on ordering Dr. Price's book.

>>I've gotta ask - do I understand you correctly - eating raw flesh works for
>>you but eating some cheese (raw, of course) would gross you out?  Or were you
>>kidding?

>Ha! Yeah, it was a joke, but not much of one. Understand that (after 7
>years of eating/testing any high-quality animal food I could get my hands
>on) raw flesh is as beautiful to me as fruits and veggies. An oyster is a
>lovely sight, as is a mackerel, a lamb chop, etc. I remember being grossed
>out, but that was a while back. For fun, imagine that you were raised
>without fresh fruits and veggies, that they were culturally taboo. Then,
>for some reason you experimented with them and found they were quite
>lovely in all respects--taste, look, and health-giving properties--all of
>which you and I both think is true of fresh fruits and veggies in real
>life. This was my experience with raw animal foods (RAF). Dairy, on the
>other hand, is something I have detoxed and detoxed and detoxed. I know
>pre-verbally and almost unshakably what dairy has done to me during my
>first 26 years of consumption. The idea of drinking milk is pretty gross
>to me. (My lips on the cow's udder? Yuck, even to me who wasn't
>breastfed.) Letting the bacteria at it and ending up with yogurt, cheese,
>etc doesn't help it much. Now, of course, I ate all manner of dairy before
>going raw, and it didn't gross me out at all. And it was all pausterized
>(sp?) dairy, not raw. But honestly, dairy products are grosser to me today
>than a lobster, which is very beautiful--however, you wouldn't want to see
>me eat one raw, I'm sure.

>That said, I think raw cheese would be a very intelligent solution to the
>dissatisfaction experienced by many raw-vegans as they approach 100%. It
>is only a slight compromise with the philosophy of veganism, and it
>provides serious nutrition which isn't found in the plant world. My own
>bias is that cheese would be "better" for you than cooked grains, but who
>knows? I'm just talking here...

>>Re answering my husband about an all raw diet:  I really can't because I
>>can't make it work for me.  He feels it is nutritionally but not calorically
>>adequate for an active person.  And I can't show him that it's even adequate
>>for me as, as I mentioned recently, when I've tried all raw I'm hungry almost
>>constantly, lose weight and get colds. For me, animal flesh is completely out
>>of the question (shudder), raw eggs sound horribly yucky, raw, organic,
>>humanely produced (is this even possible?) cheese is something which a couple
>>of all raw friends and acquaintances swear by, so maybe, but in general this
>>would not be something I'd want to use.  I do eats lots of nuts and some avo
>>and love them both.  I don't know how all raw folks do it.  Maybe you or
>>someone will enlighten me!

>There are very few all-raw folks in this world, I suspect. I suspect
>further that it is the "exceptions" (secret or otherwise) which keep those
>who aspire to a truly raw vegan diet from developing even more serious
>deficiencies than they probably have. Having read the back issues of H&B
>and from the kind of talk some of the M2Mers talk, and even here on
>veg-raw, I think the utility of an entirely plant-based diet is in serious
>question anecdotally. Even a cursory review our evolutionary history would
>not bring the conclusion that we are plant-only eaters. Ric Lambert is the
>only person I have met (met on the net, that is) who seems to have balance
>on an all-plant all-raw regime, and perhaps I have his diet wrong and he
>does include some of the gentler animal foods like eggs and cheese on
>occasion. (Ric?)

>Many raw-vegans seem to draw their energy from the "adrenaline" of the
>spiritual/ecological aspect of the superiority of a plant-only diet, and
>feel it proper to put the health of a domesticated animal over their own
>for reasons which may never be clear to me, spiritual flunky that I am. :)
>To each his/her own.

>In any case, I hope you don't feel that _you_ are a failure for being
>unable to attain balance on all-raw-vegan regime! You are not a failure,
>the regime you aspire to may simply not be in accord with your biology.
>And really, I don't want you to eat RAF. We should each find our own way
>that suits us, no?

>Cheers,
>Kirt