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J>C said

.( thru ethnic cleansing? just an analogie).

>>LISA said
>>That's a pretty good analogy, actually. I think some of the same
>>twisted psychological reasons motivate both of those things you've
>>mentioned.I
>>I don't understand what you mean about scape-goating, but I'm
>>interested to know, if you wouldn't mind explaining.
>>

I know that it is more than an analogie , that , like you said, both
behaviors stems out of the same twisted psychological reasons(ning?)

This reasonning goes like that:
We perceive a "problem" and because we have been made to believe in
linear relationship between cause and effect, If i am feeling miserable
or unconfortable right now it must be because of some thing happened in
the past and somebody or something is responsible( there is certainely a
cause to it and my feeling is the effect.)
Scape-goating is born, it must be somecause 's fault. This somecause
could be a personne action, an event that happens to me, a thing that
have power over me, a virus, a toxine, a character trait( iam eating too
much) or an ethnie...
If we look carefully, it is everywhere, something or somebody is guilty
in me or in the other)
thru" cleansing" off the cause of the problem we think we can get rid of
the problem.
But what we don't see , is that the "problem" IS this inconfortable
feeling that we want to be rid of : the guilt itself ( not the perceived
cause of the guilt)
By projecting the guilt on some causes in me or the other. ,i am just
making a" reason" for guilt i am reproducing the feeling.
The fact is that there is no reason or cause for guilt because there was
not a "problem " in the first place, so nobody is responsable for what
did'nt occurred.

To go farther if i didn't lost you, The original sin is to believe we
are able to separate from others, from god or nature. ( it is the source
of guilt) Tru this guilt, we expect to escape the punition for doing
this (separating). by sacrificing (the joy by holding on the guilt)
ourselves rather than being punished by god.( it is what i meant by"
buying back "our innocence )
All of this is simply insane: one can't buy back one innocence with
guilt , guilt is what stop us to enjoye this given . We are innocent
because we can't separate from the source and from its creations. There
is no sin just the mistake to believe in sin.

Sorry , after a full day kayaking among the wild sea life with my son ,
i am getting too happily connected to the whole and am becoming too
esoterique..
To be more specific : i can see in the raw food movement this quest for
the guilty .one.( scape goating) If my health is not there it must be
because i ate too much meat or too much cooked( i buy back my innocence
by quiting meat or cooked), things are not perfect still , must be
because fruits are not high quality enough or i am not eating balanced
meals etc...
There is nothing wrong about correcting what we think is the cause of
our problem it is just fondamentally useless because we are just playing
with the effects on the outside not changing the cause of the problem
inside belief that there is a problem)
Now playing with the effects can help us to just doing that (changing
this fundamental belief in separation) but no way that it can do that
for s.( not eating meat is not going to resolve my anger but by this
abstinence i can realise that the anger is still there and correct it or
scape goat something else ( the other people who eat meat for ex. ) and
keep thinking that once thoses peoples will quit too the problem will be
resolved and on and on...)
Only when we used up all the possible reasonnable justification for
anger, we can realised that anger have never been justified and will
never be .
Eating or not eating meat is not going to change the guilt of angry
feelings in itself.
The anger dissipate once we realise that there is nothing out there to
be angry against (we are not separated and not guilty of doing so)
Like krishnamurti said :<do it or don't do eat but get along with it >
I said that i have an issue with scape goating because i have a tendancy
to sacrifice myself to be saved and to think i am the victime of
somebody else
. So i feel lot of empathie for scaped goats, martyrs, or rejected and
alike ( my favorites are gypsies, natives cultures, defenseless nature
or Alan-
sorry i could not resiste)
Jean-claude