Carol -
>> People often refer to raw foodists as if they're all raw vegans,
>> even here on this list, where we have a number of members who eat
>> all raw without being vegans or vegetarians.
>>
>> So I'm wondering:  Is it most people's experience that raw vegans
>> far outnumber raw non-vegans?

Jean-Claude -
> May be they are just louder to compensate for the insecurity arising from
> trying to maintain a long term vegan diet when most of the old timers in
raw
> vegan end up quitting the idea, .
> may be the non vegan rawfoodists feel content and satisfyed enought to be
as
> lazy as a lion after a good meal.

Well that seems to make sense to me.  I used to be what might be
called
a Zealot, or maybe not that extreme if it means Fanatical like the
Dictionary says - I just looked it up!!! :-) -, in regards to RAF and
then I just stopped caring to try to convince People of how Great I
Really Feel and Know it is - at least for Me!!! :-) - because the ones
who were Open and Honest and willing to look at the Facts, or at least
Personal Experiences, didn't have to be inundated with all the Facts
and
Data I had but I could just have a Nice Conversation with them if I
felt
they were really interested, and sad to say, most People are not.
Some
don't mind listening to how I eat, a lot get grossed out, but there
are
the few who really honestly listen but just can't see themselves
changing, and then there are the very very Very Few who actually
investigate it and the One Person I know who's actually gone RAF that
I
know of through me in the last 2 years - Not A Lot Of People I would
Say!!! :-)

> In north america ,it is certainly more popular to be a raw vegan than in
> France where most of the raw foodists are non vegan. Coming from France to
> Canada  i have been surprised by the reaction of  peoples about me eating
> raw meat, there is so much obsession here about "cleanliness" ,fear base
> hygiene , that just the idea is "yukky". In france the idea is better
> accepted because raw seasonned meat like saucisson and raw hams are very
> common and popular. And we like our cheeses smelly and full of life ( have
> you ever seen a microcospic view of cheese crust , that is alive...) The
> cliche of a good picnic meal is a good saucisson , a small cheese ,a good
> piece of Bread and a quart of red wine.( 75 % raw meal )

Boy, at times like this living in Europe is especially appealing
again.
I used to live in London from '78 to mid-'83 and I really did get to
like it if not love it on many different levels, but one for sure was
that I liked that it had Culture; they don't seem to have that in
America, or at least the U.S., and even though I am American, I must
say
that a lot of Americans, especially on the West Coast seem like Big
Teenagers rather than Adult Men and Women.  In Europe, at least, we
really know what it's like to live without all they have here which
they
don't appreciate and really know what it's like to have Culture and
Communities and actually KNOW who your Neighbors even are - Not even
their Names!!! - WOW!!! What A Concept!!!

Well enough of that.  I was a Recovering Raw Vegetarian Zealot in the
mid-80s and it didn't work for me but for those 6 months I think I was
as bad as those Newly Saved Born Again Christians who think everyone
is
going to Hell if they don't believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and
Savior and died for All their Sin on the Cross - Blah Blah Blah!!! -
Boy, I don't think I've ever been that extreme since - But close a few
times, maybe ;->

I stayed Raw for the most part, mostly Vegetables and Dairy which was
mostly Cheese and Milk, but started adding Raw Fish and eating cooked
Chicken and other Cooked things but staying away from Red Meat and
Pork.
Later on when I felt I started wanting to eat Red Meat again more - I
had been eating it like maybe 2-3 times a year or so - I had wanted to
go Raw Meat but even though I didn't fully believe in the Germ and
Bacteria Theory I didn't feel educated enough to go for it, even
though
my Body really Really was starting to want, if not, Crave Raw Meats.

Well, suffice it to say, I finally got into them and have no problem
with Bacteria and Germs anymore on my Foods unless they smell actually
spoiled or in some way not Healthy; in fact, I have 2 week old Turkey
Thigh - My Favorite!!! :-) I like the Dark Meats better than the
White,
I wonder if it's because they're more Nutritious and taste better too
-
At least to me!!! :-) - I was about to eat but my Cats jumped up on
the
table and Hijacked it and starting eating it; there's some of it left
my
I think they're going to get it all and I'm just going to have some
Raw
Beef Flesh and Heart.

I've been a RAFer for over 2 years now and haven't felt better since I
was a Teenager.  I've now been eating a lot of Raw Organ Meats and was
going to switch Primarily to them but Boy!!! are they Rich!!!  It's
not
as easy to eat as much of them especially the Melts (Spleen) and
Kidneys, it's also depends on how I feel, whereas with Raw Meats it's
really easier but it's not nearly as potent.  The one exception is Raw
Heart, it's pretty easy to eat a lot of that, or maybe it's what I
need
more of - Who Knows!!! :-) - I guess it's a Muscle Meat though as well
as an Organ Meat - Hey!!! 2 for the Price of 1!!! - Such A Deal!!! :-)

The one thing I still haven't been able to get is Adrenal Glands
because
they are not considered "Fit for Human Consumption" or at least I
think
that's how the USDA says it.  It used to be that stuff like that was
thrown into a bin and you could just go and grab it after the USDA
Inspectors left - They're On Site whenever there's Meat Processing
going
on so usually there all the time and at the place I get my Meats from
the guy has his own office even - Wow!!! Let's just have a Gov't
Inspector at all our Jobs and Work Places - Would the Country be so
much
better off? :-) (Factious and Rhetorical statement and can be ignored
:-)) - but now that so many Workers started to Bin or Dumpster Dive they
now throw this Horrible Ink on everything right after it goes in so
now
one can eat it now - Unless they want to eat some kind of maybe Toxic
Ink.  I was told the Mexican Workers used to like to take like the
Marrow from the Spine of the Cow, it's like a Vein and basically
Marrow,
and they used to make this Soup out of it and it's supposed to be a
very
popular dish, or I guess in certain areas where they can get this
Spine
Marrow - Have any of you heard of this?  How about in France and
Europe
or actually Anywhere else?  My Body is still Craving Adrenal Glands
because I think I use mine more than most for all my Days without
sleep
etc. and maybe that's why I can.  I heard that the really good Super
Athletes have Over-Active Glands or maybe is just Normal for them and
that's why they can keep going and going and going and going even with
all the Drug Abuse and Booze etc. some of them go through and still
seem
to be okay - for a time - Just like teenagers seem to get away with it
-
Although it doesn't seem to be that way anymore.  I bet it's because
their Parents were so Deficient and not Properly Nourished by Good
Fresh
Whole Foods when they were growing up that the Kids did not get to
inherent and develop their Glands to the fullest, because the Parents
just didn't have it to give, or eat well while growing up and so
didn't
get Great Glandular Reserves - Thank God I'm First Generation American
on my Mom's Side - 3rd on my Dad's - and even though she was
malnourished during the War (WW II) I still seem to have gotten
something and we also ate great growing up.

Note: I don't know/think if this is just because of the RAF, but I
like
Never, I mean NEVER, get sick.  I rarely used to and now I Never get
sick, even before I've been mostly RAF.  For me I believe that being
sick is just like a thought form and that these are what people catch,
so if I feel it come to me, or actually maybe get the sniffles, I just
talk to it and/or my Body and ask if why it's here and if it needs to
be
- I started doing this many years ago.  Well I haven't talked to a
thought form that seems to cause sickness in years because they don't
seem to want to come around me anymore since I learned the game.  In
fact, I remember them the last time going something like: "Hey!!!
That's
not fair!!! You not supposed to know about that!!! And they or it just
left - It was Really Cool!!! :-)  I felt it like a weight or a
pressure
on my Body and that was my clue when they first showed up.  Now if I
ever get the sniffles I just talk with my Body and ask it what I've
got
the sniffles and it tells me the same thing that I bet I already know
why I got them and it's usually because I haven't been going to been
for
days for weeks at a time and it's its way of saying: "Alright Gregg!!!
Enough's Enough and we need to get some Sleep!!!"  What it actually
said
was that it's because I hadn't been sleeping and it/we were exhausted
and I was using my Mind to override it and it was allowing it because
I
need/wanted to get this work done I was doing but now it was going too
far and I needing to pay attention to my Body and get some sleep.  I
remember saying that I promise I'd get some sleep that night and so
please I didn't need the sniffles and to get sick.  I remember it gave
me the Feeling of "Okay" and that it felt like I heard it and was
satisfied and believed me that I wouldn't push it anymore for now - I
tell ya that it's a really good feeling to be in touch with your Body
that much and how it will even let itself be pushed really far as long
as you honor it and make sure you do take care of it.  It's also how I
know what I want to eat and need: I just Feel it and I know what my
Body
is craving for and really needs to be running more Optimally - It's
Really Cool!!! :-)  Also, I taught my Girlfriend this about 4 years
ago
or so and she hasn't been sick since - And she's not even a RAFer or
anything!!!  She eats pretty good though compared to the SAD and I
think
that helps so that the Body has what it needs to be Healthy and
Disease
Free :-)

Anyway, I'm so glad that I can get Natural Raw Organs now that have No
Added Hormones or Antibiotics etc. - Cool!!! - I had to track them
down
- Literally!!! :-) - They are still Grain Fed but what else can I get
from here in Southern California.  What I really want is the Fresh Raw
Organs of Pasture/Grass Fed Cattle and would really Love the ones from
New Zealand but they don't ship them with the Meat from New Zealand; I
guess they don't last as long so don't travel that well.  The Meat is
Ages on the ships as far as I know and Organs are suppose to be Fresh
for the most part I think and not aged - At least I think so.  I,
myself, though east Organ that are a week to 10 days old all the time
and sometimes 2 weeks, as long as my fridge is really cold though;
that's of course what makes them last longer.  I think I might ask
anyway just to see what happens and maybe they can.

Well that's all for now All.  Please let me know if any of you are
eating Raw Organs because I like to know and what your Experiences are
and have been.

 - Take Care!!

 - To Life, Love, Health, And Freedom!!!

 - Gregg!!!
---
Tel: +1 323 255-1980
ICQ #: 2038656

P.S. Jean-Claude, why continue to use:

Ingrid Bauer <[log in to unmask]>

when you could just use:

Jean-Claude [Last Name] <[log in to unmask]>

if you have to use her E-Mail Address for some reason.  Has she even
ever sent any Posts of her own or lately?  If you need and/or want an
E-Mail Address of you own you can get [anything you want]@mail.com,
just
go to http://www.mail.com and Sign Up!!! - I use them for pretty much
all my E-Mail so try it, I think you'll like it.  They have a really
Great service and can either use their Web Based Mail or have all your
Mail Forwarded to another E-Mail Address (i.e. like Ingrid's if
needed).

 - Well Take Care Again And Talk To You Later My Fellow Raw Food and
Net
Loving Friend!!!

 - Bye For Now!!!

 - Gregg!!! :-)