Ilya wrote:
>>The ratio is about 2 lbs meat for the 180g of carbs *used* per day.
>>(Probably in ketosis the brain nutrition is also at a reduced
>>carb consumation which may reduce the minimum carbs some percents)

>After adaptation (which takes about 3 weeks on ketosis) the bodys
>requirement for glucose (without high intensity excercise) drops
>to about 40gm per day.

As I mentioned, in ketosis (equal to carbohydrate starvation)
the brain can reduce its glucose need by "some" percents
by too accepting ketone bodies as a fuel.
According to (1) this are 40 to 60 percent of the brains needs
(the need of blood cells have to be added).
So, your 40gm glucose/day are the lowest of the lowest assumption
(40% of only 100 gm instead if 60% of 120 gm glucose per day
as the minimum need).
Accepting 40gm very minimum glucose requirement needs by the brain
(blood cells' to be added, normally about 60gm/day),
these 40gm still are about the half of the above.
40gm glucose need about 250 gm of meat, blood cells about 60gm
may add upto 1 lbs of meat used for energy only.

This is still a high amount and it still only works *if* enough
fat is present.
If not in ketosis, and with a higher activity of the brain,
the double glucose amounts will double the protein need again.

If in ketosis gluconeogenesis drops down to about half
then i'd still prefer to stay with as few as possible.
Ketone bodies have acidity, and byproduct ammonia is toxic
to the brain, at last.

> Since 58% of protein gets converted to glucose
>whether you want it or not a person on a typical keto diet will
>get enough protein to fill the need for glucose. During the first
>3 weeks of a keto diet one may want to increase protein intake
>to prevent lean tissue loss due to conversion to glucose. ...

I've never seen that 58% count written, but it's logical to assume
that the unneeded amino acids are broken down to energy,
*if* there is no need for them as a nitrogen source for constructing
other non-essential amino-acids.
Even meat still contains much unusable amino-acids, by ratio.
If there *is* a real amino acid(nitrogen)- need in the body ,
I can't imagine that is was burnt as fuel "want it or not".

Why should one want to get into ketosis then? As you tell me, it's
loosing weight. Since part of the ketones are exhaled
in the lungs (acetone) or excreted with urine, this will
at least represent a considerable loss of energy.
Given the above protein amount needed, the weight loss may
easily result in a big part from breakdown of our own
bodys muscles.

Ketosis to me personally looks not very desireable but it seems like
some of you like to experiment with it.

regards, Amadeus

(1) http://medtstgo.ucdavis.edu/endo/lecture/metlipid.htm
Almost bottom, at "Figure 35" i cite:
<<A broad range of tissues can readily use ketone bodies as a
source of energy; one notable exception to this is brain.
Under typical situations of a regular intermittent eating
pattern, the brain cannot use ketone bodies as a source of
energy be-cause it lacks the enzyme to activate
acetoacetate. Importantly, this enzyme is induced in brain
after about 4 days of starvation, and as starvation ensues, the
brain is able to obtain 40 to 60 percent of its energy from
ketone body oxidation. ...

Whereas ketone bodies are a good source of metabolic energy,
there is an inherent problem with their being too plentiful. As

acids, they result in acidosis....>>

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