Todd Moody wrote:
> The amount of fat excreted as ketones is trivial.
Do you have any numbers on this? I'd be interested in seeing them.

> These diets
> work because by excluding carbs they tend to be somewhat lower in
> calories...
Not true - they may be, but that's simply a personal variation. Some
people do indeed eat less on keto diets, some more.

> and they are hormonally favorable to fat loss.
This is a better explanation of it.

> The fat in the diets seems to bring about satiety, and people eat less.
Again, a generalization. Some people eat less (calorie wise)
some more.

> Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the most energy your body
> can use in a day, at your current activity level, is 3,000
> calories.  Suppose that you are eating 4,000 calories a day on a
> ketogenic diet.  Will you excrete ketones?  Yes.  Will you burn
> body fat faster than you store it?  No.
My energy needs when not on a low carb diet are in the 2500 Kcal/day
range (I am a 5'6" male, 34 yo). I have lost weight easily (and
without exercise) on a low carb diet while eating well in excess
of 3500 calories per day (often around or higher than 5000) for days
on end. I was NOT grossly overweight when doing so. From lowcarb
exercise list I am aware of at least one other person with similar
experience.

> Is it "impossible to
> store fat in ketosis because there is no insulin available to
> facilitate its storage"?  No.  Protein stimulates insulin
> release.
This is rather small compared to what you get when eating carbs.
Couple that with slowed down digestion due to all the fat in the
diet and you are talking about a very small amount of insulin.

>  Ketones stimulate insulin release.
Only true once their concentration reaches sufficiently high levels.
Which means you are already burning fat in overdrive. At that point
insulin is released to stop/slow down further fat burning, not to
store fat. You will not be storing fat under such conditions.

> Even the Eades, of _Protein Power_, concede that calories count.  The
> body's energy needs are not fixed, but they are not infinitely
> elastic either.
True, but neither are eating habits of people on a keto diet. The
combination of not burning fat completely (thus ketones in urine
and breath) and a reduced ability of the body to store fat result
in fat loss even when eating over nominal requirements. It is
true that if you eat enough you will not LOOSE weight, it is also
true that a great many people will not GAIN any on a keto diet
even when eating much beyond their normal caloric needs.

> Been there, done that.  I recently did a month of ketosis and
> didn't lose a pound.  I wasn't paying attention to calories.
> As you know, plateaus are common on all diets, including Atkins.
> This is because as people lose weight their energy needs tend to
> fall faster than their appetites, unfortunately.
This may be because a keto diet is not for you (it's not for everyone).
It could also be because you were doing something wrong while on it
(many people do). For example, if you don't drink enough you are likely
to become dehydrated. Many people on a low carb diet don't notice that
they are thirsty. Well, without water your ketone concentration will
increase and the above mentioned insulin release will happen. Then you
will stop burning fat. This is not to say that that's what has happened
to you, just an easy example of what people do wrong.

Ilya