On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:42:42 -0400, matesz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Actually, Loren Cordain describes humans as OMNIVORES "on the way" to being
>obligate carnivores.  We are alrady omnivores!
>

You're right, regarding Cordain I stand corrected.
Cordain wrote:
>Recently, it has been
>shown that humans also have limited capactity to synthesize vitamin A from
>beta carotene (9), presumably because humans, like cats, have consumed
>vitamin A rich animal food sources for eons and are in a transitional
>state from omnivory to obligate carnivory.
I've something to say about this reference (9)...
This are exactely the (only) points which advocate a animal diet
in my eyes (dairy or meat).
However I may refer to what I wrote in my last posting about this
points(Taurin, EFA's, Vitamins A, B12)  to avoid repetitions.

Long term vegans have average 78% of the Taurin level of meat-eating people.
(source: beyondveg) Is this so "low"? It looks quit comparable, even when
relying on synthesis only, like vegans do.

>By the way, sweet potatoes do not contain vitamin A, nor do any vegetables
>or fruits.  They contain beta-carotene, also called pro-vitamin A.  The
>body uses this as an antioxidant.  Some of the beta-carotene may be
>converted to vit. A, but the conversion rate may be low in some people.

We already had this. Tables list the various carotenes (not only beta-)
together with animal-vitamin A, using a conversion factor which considers
the rate of conversion. If "the conversion rate may be low in some people",
what does this mean?. Any metabolic funtion may be low in some people,
this is a disease.

About Cordain and Vitamin A:
I'm not so shure, that humans have consumed "vitamin A rich animal food for
eons"  (like cats) . Because i don't know how vitamin A rich insects were,
and because vitamin A out of carrion isn't that probable - because liver is
decaying very quickly.

That "may be low" I've heared several times now as an argument, why our
bodies might "need" to eat animals.
How can a metabolic funtion be "low" anyway? If precursors are not
available, ok. If one enzyme works on different competing substrates, then
by competition, ok. But otherwise the body usually has regulatives, which
*adjust* metabolic functions, according to the *actual requirement*.

Cordains "may be-clue", his reference is an article named " de Pee S, West
CE et al.  Lack of improvement in vitamin A status with increased
consumption of dark leafy green vegetables. "
Lack of improvement, that's one isolated situation.

That's too weak, to make me worry for the usual vegan.
You said, that you suffered from a vitamin A deficiency. Do you know from
what? From too less fat in the food?
All vegans should show heavy deficiency symptoms after 1 or 2 years,
if biosynthesis rate was actually "low".
Vitamin A has a maximum storage capacity of 6 months in the body.

>B-12 tests don't also show a deficiency when there is one.
> Folic acid funtions much as B12 does.
>... and others who consume large amounts of leafy
>green vegetables can amsk the clinical signs of anemia.
>..
>Having your blood tested for its hypersegmentation index is found the be
>the
>most reliable test for B12 defic, more reliable than standard tests.  This
>looks for hypersegmented nuclei under a microscope.

Thanks for this information.
I'll call my doctor, and ask which kind of test he can have performed.
After all it's not only for me - i feel good. It's more to see if such a
kind of nutrition as i do (whashing vegetables, without insects, little
dairy) is sustainable long time without supplements.

Amadeus