Hi Joan, 
According to Stephen Oppenheimer, especially in " The Origins of the
British" (Constable & Robinson, London 2006) genetics argue against the
notion that conquered populations were displaced. (He is discussing Europe
and Asia when he makes that statement.)

Natives of the Pacific Northwest preserved and stored considerable excess
food that was, pound-for-pound, at least as calorie dense as grains. Herded
animals, of course, did not need to be carried.

I'm sorry, but I don't have any references to support my claim that the same
amount of land used for vegetable & fruit production would support more
people. I based this statement on personal experience and observation. Just
have a look at bushels per acre production of any grain, then compare it
with the production of any truck farm. The difference is so large that it
would be impossible to argue with. 

That's a great question. I might just do the research and write a paper on
it. Care to join forces and write it together?
Best Wishes, 
Ron   

-----Original Message-----
From: Paleolithic Eating Support List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Joan Howe
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:56 AM


Ron: >>While dramatic population growth accompanied cereal grain
cultivation, it
may not have been the only factor. It may not even have been the driving
force behind this enormous population growth. <<

Joan: The real difference that
grain crops (broadly defined) and domesticated herd animals made was in
allowing armies
to bring their food supply with them, which in turn allowed societies
with armies to conquer and displace peoples getting their food some
other way.? Fortresses and other signs of organized militarism begin to
turn up in the archaeological record as soon as people begin grain
farming.? The story of any ancient farming society generally ends with
the society overworking its soil, crashing its ecosystem, and moving on
to fresh conquests.? The soils of many of these areas, Iraq for instance, 
haven't recovered yet.

With premodern technology, armies were limited to grains and herds.?
Nowadays any food can be made into MREs.? It would be an interesting
experiment to feed a unit of Marines a paleo diet and see how they do
compared with other units performing the same assignments. 

Ron: >>Further, if you look at the enormous tracts of land currently used to
cultivate grains, there are many other foods that could be grown instead of
grains in most of these areas. More intensive farming could produce
enormously greater quality and quantities of vegetables and fruits. It would
take an enormous paradigm shift to do so, but to take the position that
there just isn't any alternative is, I think, incorrect.  <<


Joan: I keep hearing this same thing: that we need to keep growing grains
and 
feeding people mainly grains or there's going to be mass starvation.  I'd
like 
to be able to refer to some research that's been done on the subject. Do you
know of any such work, demonstrating at least in theory that as many people
could be as well nourished 
on the same amount of land used for fruits, veggies and meat as for grains?


~ Joan Howe