Great conversation!  Keep it coming, Lurisia, this is the most exciting
conversation (for me) we've had in months.  Obviously there will never be
agreement on some points, but you're doing a good job of presenting and
defending your statements.

A little fuel for the fire, check out these paleo-triathletes, and the
modifications they make to support a gargantuan training schedule.

http://www.byrn.org/gtips/gtips.htm - look at 'Nutrition & Body Composition"

There are also some good discussions for more resistance-training athletes
at the Crossfit site, on the 'Nutrition' forum.

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html  - Some good
Paleo discussions in the archives.

Tim


At 12:39 AM 2/11/2004 -0800, you wrote:
> >Aw,
> >Show a little mercy folks.
> >She's already backtracked on almost all of her
>original points.
> >
> >>On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 04:34  AM,
>Lurisia Dale wrote:
> >>
> >>> 3. If you are exercising and dieting at the same
> >>> time(as you should be, if you want to cut fat)
>cutting
> >>> carbs to the levels required to acheive ketosis
>will
> >>> almost certainly reduce the intensity of your
>workouts
> >>> and make them much more difficult.
> >>
> >>Sorry, I can't buy this one. I run long distance,
>including racing the
> >>10K. Running and even racing is no problem at all
>without carbs. My
> >>best 10K time in recent years was done when under
>strict low carb.
>
>My my, boys.  Please settle down.
>
>I will address you each in turn.
>
>First off, Tom, if you consider 10K to be long
>distance, or to be an intense workout, you should not
>be calling yourself a long distance runner.  I run
>7-10 miles at least 6 times a week, and yes, you can
>run a 10K now and then if you are on a very low carb
>diet.  But I have also run the New York Marathan every
>year since I was 24 (I am now 31), and I assure you
>that you cannot do that on a very low carb diet.  This
>is not just my opinion.  All marathon runners carbo
>load before long races.  You also cannot effectively
>strength train on a very low carbohydrate diet.  Ask
>any professional athlete.  You need carbohydrates to
>train.
>
>As for you Chuck, the only thing I "backtracked" was
>admitting that the jury is still out on the dangers of
>long-term ketosis, as far as scientific studies are
>concerned.  However, the fact that cutting fruits and
>veggies is unhealthful, and that, by extension, so is
>long-term ketosis, is not just my opinion.  I quote
>Dr. Loren Cordain, from "The Paleo Diet" (p. 14):
>
>"A major problem with low-carbohydrate weight-loss
>diets is what they do to health-promoting fruits and
>vegetables--they nearly eliminate them.  Because of a
>technicality--a blanket restriction of all types of
>carbohydrates, even beneficial ones, to between 30 and
>100 grams per day--fruits and veggies are largely
>off-limits.  This is a mistake.  Fruits and
>vegetables--with their antioxidants, phytochemicals,
>and fiber--are some of our most powerful allies in the
>war against heart disease, cancer, and osteoporosis."
>
>Or again, from p.11:
>
>"...almost all of these low-carbohydrate diets permit
>unlimited consumption of fatty, salty meats (such as
>bacon, sausage, fatty ribs, and lamb chops) and dairy
>products (cheeses, cream, and butter) while
>restricting the consumption of fruits and vegetables.
>Cancer-fighting fruits and vegetables!  This dietary
>pattern is drastically different from that of our
>ancestors."
>
>You two both seem a little edgy from your prolonged
>carb depletion.  Perhaps what you need is a nice piece
>of licorice.
>
>xoxo,
>Lurisia
>
>
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