>Here in bavaria deers are overgrazing and destroying many upccomeing young
>trees so the wood is likely to get into an age problem.

It could be coming from the way forests are managed in Europe ( tree farm.
Same age trees growing close together , shut down the understorey of
"deer foods of predilection" , bushes and small plants ).

>How many animals can a land bear naturally,
>as you are estimating above?

I don't know here we are priviledged .our island is roughly less than 50000
acres but with a coast line that decuplate the density of foods available
to have an idea check the maps on that site
http://www.savesaltspring.com/maps.htm

I am living at the edge  of  southest  park of 1200 acres with 4 miles of
shoreline
there is in that park an impressive population of deer i see  lot of them
everyday and they feed only on  native  vegetation . the few houses around
here keep their gardens well fenced,  they better do
this park was the first farm in british colombia built in 1877 so it have
been logged but it still look quite rich but nothing in comparaison with the
virgen forest of the west coast .
when i came here from Europe i realised that the" wild frontier" of the
pyrennes that i considered as wild, where i was living  ,  is  in fact a
devastated land  in comparaison with the still wild ones of here.
So ideas that we can have about density of populations either of humans or
animals might be very missleading in comparaison of the past or of the
potential of a diverse environment.
I have been told that the population of natives on the coast  when the 1rst
whites came  was as much that it is now. They were feeding off the land and
sea ,that is not the case at all anymore for anybody natives included.
 they just can't )  The  devastating impact of the whites is of an other
origine than their strict  numbers.
Fishes were so abondant in the past that the natives were harvesting them
with a paddle barded with thorns ,just by paddling among them and emptying
their catch at each stroke in their canoe.
Now the same fishes are strictly reglemented to fishing only the natives
have still the right to fish them, they are not there anymore
What is the difference ?
The forest ,the virgin , or more exactly,  the native managed forest keep
its diversity and oppulent population of animals  and  is feeding the sea
creatures.

>1 square kilometer (1km*1km) in a rich area naturally is inhabited by
>as much wild game as one hunter needs per year (4-5 big animals plus the
>smaller). Anything more is from agro fedder.
>But as also hunters want to live longer as 1 year,as some animals have to
be
>left alive. To have baby animals. Thus in a lasting kind of wild game
>exploitation, serious estimations go to 10 square kilometers per human.
>Anything more will kill of the wild game population in the long run.
>This are 10000ha or 50000 acres, right?
>How big is your garden? how big is your island?

that is about the size of our island ( 50000 acres) . my garden is 5
cres.( and still have 2 or 3 deers coming to visit every 2 or 3 days. plus a
big family of quails , an owl , a racoon family ,squirels and many smaller
birds, even the lonely " passing by "our island , came to visit last year
 he poo few meters away from my house
>
>Maybe in this way most all big animals in the americas were killed
>to extinction, like Jaren Diamond suspects.
>No more mammouth (of course) but also no horses and cattlelike animals
>except the bisons. They must have been hard to catch, i suspect.
>Only the reintroduction of rideable horses (by spaniards after 1500)
>led to the bison-exploitations nativa american societies (like sioux?).
>Probably this this wouldn't have been a really sustainable structure
>on the long run.
That looks like humans species were quite uninstinctively regulated for a
while allready.
Could it be  that the use of fire made them overeat or may be it is just me
( it did  that to me to cook my food)
>
>>... Eating is a dance of energy
>>fluctuating from one species to an other.
>So it is.
>
>>>As in burgers sexuality episodes - a total unlimited access to everything
>>>wantable... isn't a historic anchestral experience, is it?
>>
>>yes and it is not reserved to instinctos ,this all exponential quest to
get
>>everything we want started a long time ago and comes to its limitations.
>> the earth being round we will have to see those limitations) ..
>
>Seems i could sign this too.
>
>>The all idea of instinctive eating is based in my opinion on letting go of
>>control of what can makes us happy and content.

>Could this lead to hedonism?
i don't know what exactely is hedonisme.

>Does it make us happy and content in the long run if we repeat
>as often as possible what satisfied us once? Or satisfied us presently?

there is a tendancy to confond the object of desire  with the desire  , if
one particular desire is fullfilled at one time in one place we end up
thinking that it is the object that was the source of the satisfaction
To speak  religiously i will say that god doesn't let us  think that for too
long , at one point or an other we have to let go of our attachements

I eat over and over , and  must end up unsatisfied somehow  anyway because i
keep coming back to it
The problem that tried to be resolved by ascetic religions by not indulging
in desires is never resolved that way. The desires have to be honored but
responded to in well targeted manner.
Sin,  ethymologically means missing the target , holiness   doesn't means
that the bow should not be pulled.

.
That is my whole  problem with transformed foods , it is a sin to use them ,
they miss the mark  i never got the level of satisfaction that i get  since
i don't do it anymore.
I could have tried to resolve the issue by fasting and begging my food like
a monk.
but may be i must be an hedonist because it didn't appeal to me (  in fact
my personality was allready trying to prove that i didn't need anything, so
instincto came as a cure for this tendancy in me) i discovered that i have
needs , could honor them and fulfill them without shame or embarassement
I choose to denied my needs at 2 years old or maybe even before because i
got convinced allready that i will not be responded to. That denial have
been at the source of me getting greedy with food.
Now i can consciously instinctively honor my physiological needs and stopped
to unconsciously filling the hole hidden behind the denial.
It is well known that the chastity of monks are often only at  the surface.


>jean-claude