Re comment:- "> So people who lose 100+ lbs have just lost water weight? Weight loss at
> the beginning of a low carb diet is mainly water...as id the weight loss
> at the beginning of any diet."
I didn't say that. Obviosuly, there are always other factors such as obesity gained via food-intolerance to non-palaeo foods like grains, cooked-foods etc. But it is striking how quickly people who do low-carb diets in the short-term, very quickly regain their former weight when readding any carbs. That indicates water-retention as a common cause, if not the only one.
re calorie-counting:- Unfortunately, in recent times, scientists have cast very serious doubt on the notion that obesity is solely due to the amount of calories consumed(indeed the calorie myth seems to be more of a vegetarian-insipried myth, rather than a low-carb one). Come to think of it, many low-carb gurus like Taubes dismiss the whole myth re calories being linked directly to obesity:-
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/do-calories-really-count.html
re comment:- "There is quite a bit
> of evidence that HG tribes, once they started eating modern foods, also
> started experiencing diseases of civilization (diabetes, etc) and
> obesity...but none of it that I've come across demonstrates that the
> reason for this was due to transitioning from a diet of raw to a diet of
> cooked food."
Nobody is suggesting that eating a cooked diet makes it impossible to lose weight. It just makes it more difficult. And, much like Weston-Price, you are ignoring a rather obvious point, that hunter-gatherer tribes of those days did a huge amount of daily exercise which would have easily got rid of the problem of obesity(plus they endured frequent famine, which would have been a rather important factor, as well!).
Lastly, there is actually no real conclusive scientific evidence re the problem of obesity, largely because the calorie-myth is still being peddled with very poor evidence to back it up.
Geoff
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:45:20 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: How fire made us human
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Geoffrey Purcell wrote:
> > It's perfectly possible to lose weight on a cooked diet if one restricts the supply of food. It's also possible to low weight on a cooked, low-carb diet. However, plenty of nutritionists have pointed out that going (cooked) low-carb just means losing a lot of water-content as carbs increase water-retention..
> >
> So people who lose 100+ lbs have just lost water weight? Weight loss at
> the beginning of a low carb diet is mainly water...as id the weight loss
> at the beginning of any diet.
> > As regards the going back 100 years comment, it's basically unfounded. After all, 100 years ago, they had much higher activity-levels so would have been better placed to work off the fat gained from eating cooked foods(plus native tribes from 100+ years ago, didn't overcook their foods like we do, which would have helped re weight-loss.
> >
> I am seriously still waiting for some science here regarding cooking
> causing obesity that controls for what TYPE of food is being eaten. By
> what mechanism does this happen? What actually happens in the body? We
> have a good idea of the relation to insulin/hyperinsulinemia etc and
> obesity, and science going back 100 years that demonstrates this
> reliably (and can be replicated over and over). We also have science
> that demonstrates (and has been replicated) that calorie content and/or
> energy expenditure are corrolated with obesity, although not a cause
> (often, they are a result). Taubes lists numerous studies that have
> found this, for example (and that obesity/weight gain is a symptom of an
> underlying metabolic disorder, and one that not everyone will exhibit)
>
> I see a lot of speculation regarding cooked vs raw foods and obesity,
> but not much in the way of science to back it up. There is quite a bit
> of evidence that HG tribes, once they started eating modern foods, also
> started experiencing diseases of civilization (diabetes, etc) and
> obesity...but none of it that I've come across demonstrates that the
> reason for this was due to transitioning from a diet of raw to a diet of
> cooked food. If there is evidence of a people gaining weight and
> experiencing disease after a transition of raw fat meat to cooked fat
> meat (and nothing else, like bread, jam, sugar, etc), I would love to
> see it. I really would, I am not being facetious here. That would tell
> us something.
>
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:29:42 -0400
> >> From: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: How fire made us human
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> Geoff sez:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> For example it's been suggested by many scientists that highly processed=
> >>> foods are a key factor behind obesity=2C so there's no reason to suppose
> >>> that less-heavily processed foods such as boiled grassfed meats don't also =
> >>> cause obesity in a similiar fashion.
> >>>
> >> Why assume it's the fact they they are 'processed' as opposed to what
> >> they actually consist of, ingredient-wise? Speaking anecdotally, I've
> >> lost 30lbs eating cooked meat and fat (and previously, cooked veg) and I
> >> know, personally, many others who have done so as well. Scientifically,
> >> one can go back 100 years or so and see the results of a diet of cooked
> >> meats, fats, veg (and even dairy) on obese people. I don't doubt that
> >> processed foods are a culprit in obesity, but it seems (from the
> >> evidence we have) that it's isn't the cooked part that's the problem,
> >> it's what those foods consist of -- wheat and other grains, vegetable
> >> oils, etc etc and so forth.
> >>
> >
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