Well look at this, I have become a veritable hotbed of
controversy!  Like the great paleolithic nutrition
enthusiasts before me, my writings have attracted
thoughtful analysis as well as irrational fuming.

Before I begin my final post on this thread, let me
just say (to the few who have distorted my words and
completely misunderstood my position) that proper
mailing-list etiquette requires that you actually
*READ* a thread before responding to it.  It's also
nice if you quote what you are responding to.  And you
get two extra-shiny gold stars if you actually respond
to the quote in context, rather than deliberately
twisting its meaning.

There seem to be 3 points generating the most
confusion and heat, and those are the ones I want to
clarify my position on one last time.

1.  Is Ketosis unhealthy?
2.  Can you train effectively while in Ketosis?
3.  Objection to the term "Balanced Diet"

IS KETOSIS UNHEALTHY?

First off, beginning with my second email in this
thread, I have made it abundantly clear that I
understand there is no conclusive scientific evidence
that the state of ketosis, in and of itself, is
dangerous.  However, I believe, along with Dr. Loren
Cordain, famed author of "The Paleo Diet," that the
kinds of diets that promote ketosis (including Atkins)
usually are unhealthy -- for the simple reason that
you cannot eat enough fruits and vegetables.  For
those of you who were too bogged down by sausage,
bacon and cheese to read it the first time, here are
Dr. Cordain's thoughts on these diets again:

"A major problem with low-carbohydrate weight-loss
diets is what they do to health-promoting fruits and
vegetables--they nearly eliminate them.  Because of a
technicality--a blanket restriction of all types of
carbohydrates, even beneficial ones, to between 30 and
100 grams per day--fruits and veggies are largely
off-limits.  This is a mistake.  Fruits and
vegetables--with their antioxidants, phytochemicals,
and fiber--are some of our most powerful allies in the
war against heart disease, cancer, and osteoporosis."
(p. 14)

These diets, moreover, should not be mistaken for the
Paleo Diet.  This seems to be a major point of
confusion for many who have responded, including Dori,
who touts the health of an
exclusively-meat-and-fat-eating Arctic explorer
(identified by Craig as Vilhjalmur Stefansson).  In
addition, a few people have described Atkins-like
diets as Paleo, and then accused me of attacking the
Paleo diet, which I follow religiously.  Once again, I
am re-hashing my earlier quote from Dr.  Cordain to
clarify this distinction:

"...almost all of these low-carbohydrate diets permit
unlimited consumption of fatty, salty meats (such as
bacon, sausage, fatty ribs, and lamb chops) and dairy
products (cheeses, cream, and butter) while
restricting the consumption of fruits and vegetables.
Cancer-fighting fruits and vegetables!  This dietary
pattern is drastically different from that of our
ancestors."
(p. 11)

Finally, Todd, your response presented a thoughtful
analysis of some of the benefits of ketosis.  However,
you claim that "You can get all your nutrients and
stay in ketosis."  Considering that a couple pieces of
fruit could be enough to bring you above the 70g of
carbs usually necessary to maintain ketosis, I wonder
how you reconcile your view with the Dr. Cordain's
thoughts above?


CAN YOU TRAIN EFFECTIVELY WHILE IN KETOSIS?

While I understand that you CAN train, and perhaps
even train DECENTLY, while in ketosis, I absolutely
maintain that you cannot train at full intensity.
That DOES NOT mean that the Paleo Diet prevents
training at full intensity, and it DOES NOT mean that
you need grains to train at full intensity.  It means
that you need carbohydrate fuel, which can of course
come from fruits and vegetables -- my own preferred
source.

I have yet to hear of a professional athlete,
professinal body builder, or marathon runner who
competes while in ketosis.  The hesitant responses I
got from Tom ("Maybe I can train up and try a marathon
later this year, and get back to you with the
results.") and Paul ("I will save this post and send
you some [pictures] by the end of this year.") seem to
confirm this.

That is NOT TO SAY that athletes and body builders
never use ketosis as a temporary method to attain
extremely low levels of body fat.  They certainly do.
What I am saying is that these same athletes do not
make ketosis a permanent dietary lifestyle: They could
never acheive the results they want if they did.

Paul, in regard to the pictures of Tom Venuto I linked
to (www.fitren.com) you ask:

>And BTW do you have any prove that your idol is 100%
>natural?

I don't what kind of proof you are looking for.  No, I
have not sampled his tissue and had it analysed, if
that is what you're asking.  But I have read his book
and many of his articles, and he strikes me as an
honest guy, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.
He isn't THAT big.

OBJECTION TO THE TERM "BALANCED DIET"

What the dubious, government-conspiracy-laden origins
of this word are I do not know.  I don't really care
either.  When *I* used it, I meant something very
simple: A balanced diet is one that contains more than
a token serving of fruits and vegetables to go along
with its protein and fats.  By that definition (again,
see Dr.  Cordain's quotes above) the Paleo diet is
most certainly a balanced diet.

I hope I have thoroughly exhaused this thread by now.
My position should at least be clear to everyone, if
not agreeable to them.  Now I am off to the gym to
grab myself an intense, non-ketogenic, fruit-powered
workout.  I wish the same to you!

Loves and kisses,
L


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