The following study has been cited by Atkins nutritionals and others, perhaps on this discussion group, as evidence of lack of any adverse impact of reduced carb intake on on endurance athletes.   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=6865776&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=8&itool=pubmed_docsum
 
Somewhere I was able to get the entire text but I can't find the link now.  It compared cyclists' performance after the test group had two weeks to adapt to a ketogenic diet and found no significant change in endurance.  Some other studies have looked at the same issue but you have to be careful that they give the body time to adjust to fat-burning as the primary energy source.
 
Not that any of this will change the minds of your vegan friends!
 
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Ashley Moran <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:58:46 +0000
Subject: Help with a little argument (I mean research!!!)


I recently went about some research on the best way to time meals training. The top link on Google was a running website, and a guy (or could be a girl) explained how he eats high carb diets, but once was out running in the evening and got so hungry he had to beg for money for a Mars bar. I felt sorry for him struggling with his diet so I explained why he was having trouble *because of* his diet, not *despite it*. 
 
OH HOW I HAVE LEARNT MY LESSON!!! 
 
The thread has now turned into an huge battle of Caveman vs Farmer, Baker and Toffee Stick maker and is taking up more than an hour a day of my time to reply to. 
 
It has come down to two things I would like some advice on. 
 
* First, I have stated the (I can say this outloud here) FACT that veganism is unhealthy. This has been disputed by a vegan on the site ("fairly middle-of-the-road as vegans go, not massively strict about small traces of animal products"). She has rejected beyondveg.com as proof that veganism is unhealthy, and I doubt I can even get her to read westonaprice.org. 
 
She has challenged me to find a peer reviewed article that proves that vegetarianism is unhealthy. I am resisting the urge to tell her that when her teeth start falling out, she could consider that proof. Apparently she has access to ATHENS so can access journals. 
 
I find it frustrating that I have to find scientific evidence that the world is round, but for some reason, while people believe stupid things for stupid reasons, they require highly intelligent reasons to prove they are wrong. 
 
* Second, I stated that high athletic performance can be achieved while in ketosis, and that while carbohydrates can be used as a source of energy, their overuse will limit performance. An interesting article at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2308519&dopt=Abstra shows that in rats, glycogen is restored in ketosis-adapted animals while still eating high fat, and a sudden supply of carbohydrates is used efficiently to increase performance, whereas the converse is not true. 
 
So I was wondering- does anyone know of any research that could demonstrate that it is possible to achieve high levels of althetic performance while in long-term ketosis? 
 
Unfortunately, due to dogma-induced tunnel-vision, explaining that a *typical* member of a North American tribe could run down and kill a buffalo is useless. My example that I have to use the phrase "VO2 max" at least three times per post or I am looked at like I'm talking in Swahili. 
 
Help much appreciated. I don't expect to win the argument because nobody on the forum is going to listen to me anyway (they don't even LOOK AT the links I post). But it will sharpen my paleo debating skills :D 
 
Ashley 
 
PS I've resisted linking to the thread in case I get accused of bringing the boys round. Although if anyone is interesting there's a LOT of reading.